Never Do a Seller Financing Deal Like This… (Rookie Reply)

Summary

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Real Estate Rookie – Never Do a Seller Financing Deal Like This… (Rookie Reply)

Podcast: Real Estate Rookie
Hosts: Ashley Kehr & Tony J. Robinson (BiggerPockets)
Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles three critical, practical questions new real estate investors face, centered around selling difficulties, the risks in creative financing (specifically seller financing and subject-to deals), and the perennial debate over providing appliances in rentals. Ashley and Tony provide context from today’s market, share personal experiences, dissect real-world scenarios from BiggerPockets forums, and debate different landlord strategies, all in their signature encouraging and candid style.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. When a Buyer Defaults or Delays on Closing

[00:22–07:11]
A listener ("Michael") asks whether to enforce a contract and relist a property or give a non-performing buyer more time, given a small deposit and prolonged delays.

Key Considerations:

• Market Conditions & Seasonality
  • Ashley notes that today’s slower market (especially in winter in places like Buffalo, NY) might favor granting extensions; immediate relisting could result in a longer vacancy.
  • “If you would have asked me, you know, two years ago, I’d say move on to the next buyer … but you might not find that other buyer right away.” – Ashley Kerr [02:04]
• Seller Motivation
  • Tony stresses understanding your personal urgency—if a hard-money loan is due, you may need to act faster than if you’re just “testing the market.”
  • “What is your motivation for selling here and how much pressure do you have to actually disposition this asset?” – Tony J. Robinson [03:20]
• Likelihood of Closing & Contractual Leverage
  • Assess why the buyer is delayed. Have the financing problems been solved? Is the issue transparency or solvable?
  • Both recommend requiring a substantially increased non-refundable deposit for any further extension, as a litmus test of buyer commitment.

Memorable Quote:
“It’s got that stain on it, right? There’s a stigma around properties that have been relisted.” – Tony J. Robinson [05:32]

2. Seller Finance & Subject-To Horror Story

[09:22–20:03]
A listener shares a nightmare: after selling with seller financing (actually a contract for deed/sub-to), the buyer stops paying, illegally Airbnbs the property, damages it, then squats in the basement, while the seller struggles with legal recourse and unintended tenants.

Breakdown & Lessons:

• Seller Financing vs. Subject-To Defined
  • Seller Financing: Owner owns free and clear, finances buyer directly.
  • Subject-To: Buyer takes over payments on existing mortgage, but original owner’s name & responsibility stay with lender.
  • “Subject to is when same property, but I’ve got a mortgage on it and I’m going to let Ashley buy it subject to the existing mortgage ... My name’s, everything that I did still stays in place. But now Ashley is making those payments on my behalf.” – Tony J. Robinson [12:34]
• Legal & Practical Nightmares
  • Seller is stuck: legal costs, contract ambiguity, confusion over eviction/ownership rights, property damage, and “squatters with paperwork.”
  • Difficulty in recovering money or regaining control if title has transferred or lease agreements have been made by non-owners.
• Limited Solutions
  • Only viable options: retain strong legal counsel and/or negotiate “cash for keys” (pay off squatters to leave).
  • “I don’t even know if I could do anything else or offer any advice above and beyond that because it’s like what legal standing do you have?” – Tony J. Robinson [15:07]
  • Selling subject-to means sellers can be left holding the bag — credit on the hook, no effective control.

Notable Moments:

• The hosts speculate that offloading properties “sub 2” (subject-to) is riskier for sellers than often discussed, especially if the buyers have no “skin in the game.”
• “When you talk about skin in the game, they’ve essentially got none. And unless they’re just a person of high integrity—which it seems like these people are not—it becomes a lot easier for them to walk away and put the sellers in a pretty sticky situation.” – Tony J. Robinson [18:33]
• Sellers considering creative financing must ensure iron-clad contracts, understand their risks, and ideally consult specialists (e.g., Pace Morby for sub 2).

3. Appliances in Rentals: Supply or Require Tenants?

[23:37–33:38]
A listener ("Grant") asks: should a landlord provide a washer/dryer in a unit that typically has them, or let tenants buy/install their own?

Points Debated:

• Check Local Comparables First
  • If other units at target rent have appliances, not providing them may make your unit “non-comparable” and harder to rent.
  • “If you ran your numbers based on other properties in the area getting $1,200 per month, is that based on them having appliances included?... it’s going to be way harder to fill that unit.” – Ashley Kerr [25:30]
• Ongoing Maintenance Hassles
  • In rural areas with few reliable vendors, the cost and hassle of repairs may outweigh the benefits.
  • Some landlords provide appliances but with a lease clause stating tenants are responsible for maintenance.
  • “I usually don’t like warranties because they don’t seem to care as much as like getting things done in a timely manner…” – Ashley Kerr [27:10]
• Partial Inclusions & Liability
  • Built-in appliances (like dishwashers) are usually included. Gas hookups require professional installation to avoid liability.
• Anecdotes on Amenities
  • Tony shares a story of a rental where closet rods and mirrors were “upsells”:
    “The agent who was showing them the place said, ‘Oh, if you want [closet rods], it’ll be extra on your rent.’ Oh my god, I never heard that in my life.” – Tony J. Robinson [31:26]
  • Ashley recalls a complex where the washer/dryer closet was padlocked unless tenants paid extra.

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “If you would have asked me, you know, two years ago, I’d say move on to the next buyer … but you might not find that other buyer right away.”
  — Ashley Kerr [02:04]

• “What is your motivation for selling here and how much pressure do you have to actually disposition this asset?”
  — Tony J. Robinson [03:20]

• “It’s got that stain on it, right? There’s a stigma around properties that have been relisted.”
  — Tony J. Robinson [05:32]

• “Subject to is when… I’ve got a mortgage on it and I’m going to let Ashley buy it subject to the existing mortgage ... My name’s, everything that I did still stays in place. But now Ashley is making those payments on my behalf.”
  — Tony J. Robinson [12:34]

• “When you talk about skin in the game, they’ve essentially got none. And unless they’re just a person of high integrity—which it seems like these people are not—it becomes, I think, a lot easier for them to walk away…”
  — Tony J. Robinson [18:33]

• “If you ran your numbers based on other properties in the area getting $1,200 per month, is that based on them having appliances included?... it’s going to be way harder to fill that unit.”
  — Ashley Kerr [25:30]

• “The agent who was showing them the place said, ‘Oh, if you want [closet rods], it’ll be extra on your rent.’ Oh my god, I never heard that in my life.”
  — Tony J. Robinson [31:26]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:22] – Introducing question about buyer default after extension
• [02:04] – Discussion of market conditions, motivation
• [05:32] – The stigma of relisted properties
• [09:22] – Seller finance/sub-to horror story and legal mess
• [12:34] – Ashley and Tony explain seller financing vs. subject-to
• [15:07] – Legal recourse frustrations
• [18:33] – Risks of sub-to for sellers
• [23:37] – Question about including appliances in rentals
• [25:30] – Ashley’s perspective on comparables and maintenance
• [31:26] – Tony’s anecdote about landlords upselling closet rods
• [33:33] – Ashley and Tony riff on odd amenity upcharges

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Summary Flow & Tone

Ashley and Tony stay pragmatic, friendly, and a little irreverent, providing both strategic frameworks and cautionary tales. They do not shy away from admitting where solutions are murky (“not a whole heck of a lot we can do”), and frequently reinforce the importance of context—local market, motivation, risk tolerance, and contract specifics.

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Takeaways for Real Estate Rookies

1. Selling? Weigh both market realities and your own urgency before cutting off a shaky buyer; but always secure a meaningful deposit for extensions.
2. Creative financing is not without real risk for sellers—rock-solid contracts, legal support, and full understanding of consequences (especially with subject-to) are essential.
3. To provide appliances or not? Let local norms, your operational bandwidth, and maintenance realities dictate the decision, and be clear in your lease about what is and isn’t included.
4. Always look for “skin in the game” from buyers or tenants in any transaction—commitment reduces risk.

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For more rookie stories, insights, and relatable Q&A, subscribe to Real Estate Rookie or join the BiggerPockets community.

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Transcript

[Ashley Kerr]

What happens if you go to sell a property but the buyer backs out? Or what if you do a seller finance deal and the buyer stops making payments?

[Tony J. Robinton]

Today we're breaking down three questions every rookie investor needs to hear. From selling your property to renting it out.

[Ashley Kerr]

This is the Real Estate Rookie podcast. I'm Ashley Kerr.

[Tony J. Robinton]

And I'm Tony J. Robinton. And with that, let's get into today's first first question. So today's first question comes from Michael in the BP forums. And Michael says, buyer default after extension. Enforce our EMD or keep waiting. So Michael says, I listed a property recently that got about 20 showings in the first week, but only one offer. It went under contract with a relatively small non refundable deposit in a short closing timeline. It's been 55 days. It was supposed to be 25, but now we're on day 55 and counting. The buyer missed the original close date, asked for an extension, and I agreed. The new closing date has now also passed with no closing. But the buyer still only has a conditional loan approval. And I later found out they withheld a material fact that impacted their financing. They're offering just a token increase to the deposit and my realtor is encouraging me to give them more time since there weren't multiple offers. So here are my concerns. First, the contract has technically expired after the extension. Second, the deposit is small and currently second, escrow. Third, buyer hasn't been transparent about their situation. Fourth, I don't want to lose more time off market, but I also know the layout limits the buyer pool. And then fifth, I could in theory always draft a retroactive extension if they really got their financing together later. So the question is, if you were in my shoes, would you enforce the contract and relist now or grant one final short extension, but only with a substantial non refundable deposit? So a great question. We've actually never really tackled it from the seller's side. Right. But as real estate investors, sometimes we do sell real estate as well. Right. We're not just always buying, I guess. What, what's your initial? I guess before we even talk about your take, Ashley, just what should we be considering before we make that decision?

[Ashley Kerr]

Today's market conditions. I think that if you would have asked me, you know, two years ago, I'd say move on to the next buyer. Like, you know, don't waste time with this person. But Tony and I both have properties that have sat on market for a very long time and you might not find that other buyer right away and you might sit longer than you would if you give them an extension or if you know it, you give the extension and it still falls out. I feel like it's probably going to impact you the same, like even if you wait a little bit longer. Also seasonality. So for example, like in Buffalo, New York we're getting into like the winter months. We're definitely a slowdown too. So maybe if there is a huge slowdown in your market too, people aren't moving as much in winter looking to buy houses that maybe it is you're in more of a rush to, to get it offloaded or maybe you are going to do the extension and then if it doesn't work out, take it off market and relist it back in the springtime when hopefully the market does see a little bit of a boost as it usually does. So that would be my first like thinking point as to what are the market conditions.

[Tony J. Robinton]

I think the other thing to consider too is how badly do you want to sell? Right? Like, like what is your motivation for selling? Did you list this property just because you're like, I'll test the market, you know, and if it sells, great. If it doesn't, you know, no harm, no foul. Or is it like, I've got a hard money note that's due in seven days and if I don't pay this thing then I've got to go back and renegotiate and there's all these additional fees. Like what is your, what is your motivation for selling here and how much pressure do you have to actually disposition this asset? Because obviously the less pressure you have, the more you can hold out on actually getting someone who might be able to get it to the closing table. But the, you know, if there's a lot of pressure there, then maybe you've got to move more quickly and, and go with the more. More sure bet. So I think that's one thing to consider. The other thing I would try and really understand is, okay, like realistically, what are the chances of this buyer closing? What was the original reason that the closing has to be extended? You know, they kind of mentioned some issues around financing. Have those issues been, been resolved or is it still an open like item where they're like, maybe we've got this done, but if they're like, hey, no, we've got it done, you know, we're just waiting on this last thing. We need A, B and C, but we feel pretty good about getting there, then maybe that changes the decision making process as well. But those are the two big things I would look at your personal situation. What's revenue to sell? How realistic is it now that the buyer has solved these issues and they can actually get to the closing table. But I think based on what's in front of us, Ashley, I would probably give this buyer one more chance because if you, you know, he said 20 showings with one offer, right? It's not a terrible ratio, but it's also not great. It means you need another 20 showings to maybe get one more offer, but maybe you don't even get another one. Right? You said the layout is maybe a potential issue here. So it's like if you relist now you've. Now you've. My people kind of smell blood in the water, right? It's like, hey, we saw this property go under contract. It was under contract for a long time, then it fell out of contract. People won't even know why it fell out of contract. They'll just think that something was wrong with the property. Right? That's everyone's initial take. It's like, oh, well, this buyer didn't want it, so it must mean that's why it's back on the market. So now let me lowball you with, with something else.

[Ashley Kerr]

It's got that stain on it.

[Tony J. Robinton]

It's got the stain on it, right? There's a stigma around properties that have been relisted. So I think there's some challenges there with going back onto the market. But I do like the idea of increasing the non refundable deposit. Because if this buyer is serious, ask them to majorly up whatever their non.

[Ashley Kerr]

Refundable deposit is and if they like have confidence that it's going to go through and if they won't up it, then that probably shows that they're not even certain. But also I would like try to like get face or not face to face. But like, think about the chain of people that you play telephone with, real estate agents. So, you know, what is the actual issue? If there is a way for you to contact, you know, email or something, the, the buyer directly and say, hey, what's the issue? I'd love to work out something, you know, to, to get this to work out. How can I help you? You know, and see if maybe they'll say, oh, well, my financing is, you know, caught up because of this or that. And it's like they can show you, I just need a little bit more time, but it's going to work out. Or maybe it's something else that, you know, you actually could help with or whatever to move it along. Or maybe you could change offer to change the terms of the contract in in some way. But I think that's like a, you know, actually understanding, like Tony said, why it isn't closing. What is the the actual underlying issue? Okay, we're going to take a short break but coming up, what happens if you offer seller financing? You want to make the interest instead of the bank but the buyer stops paying. We will hear this investor's horror story when we come back right after this quick break.

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[Ashley Kerr]

Hey guys, it's Ashley. I wanted to pop in here real quick to tell you that managing rentals shouldn't be stressful. That's why landlords love rent ready. Get your rent in your account just two days Faster cash flow, less waiting need to message a tenant? Chat instantly in app. No more lost emails or text plus sign Schedule maintenance repairs with just a few taps. No more phone tag ready to simplify your rentals, get six months of rent ready for just $1 using promo code BP2025. Sign up at the link in the bio because new landlords are loving Rent ready. Okay, welcome back. So this question comes from the BiggerPockets forums. I'm currently in the middle of a serious situation with a seller finance deal gone completely sideways. The buyers stopped paying, secretly turned the property into an Airbnb without my knowledge, and eventually defaulted, leaving me with a huge unpaid balance, property damage and a legal mess trying to remove them. Even worse, the family renting the home through Airbnb was completely unaware and now caught in the middle. I've signed a legal lease with them to protect their housing, but I'm still stuck pursuing the original buyers for breach of contract, trespassing and damages. At this point I've paid a $5,000 legal retainer. The buyers owe over 18,000 in missed payments. Damages include a kicked in door, scratched interior doors from pets, damaged siding and H VAC tampering. And now they've taken up residency in the basement when the original buyers tried to call the cops on the ones living in the property due to not receiving payments from Airbnb anymore. So they are squatting in the basement even though they have never lived there. I'm moving forward with legal action, but I'm sharing here to ask has anyone dealt with something similar under a contract for deed? Any advice on how to frame damages and force against unauthorized occupancy? How did your legal process play out if you couldn't recover funds from the other party? So then he goes on to say this sounds like a a nightmare. And it definitely does. I think the first Thing I want to clarify here is to talks about the squatters in the basement and talks about original buyers.

[Tony J. Robinton]

So it sounds like the, the, the folks who bought this on the seller finance note have moved into the basement and they're squatting there because the Airbnb family realized what was going on. Instead of paying Airbnb, who would then pay this guy who wasn't paying the mortgage payments, they're now just paying the landlord directly for the Airbnb that they're staying in. So the, the buyers got mad and basically are now squatting in the property as a, you know, middle finger to both of them. This is a crazy situation.

[Ashley Kerr]

What is that guy's name that made like national news where he was like ex military and you could hire him in his like flash or something, like a really cool name. You could hire him and his friends and they would move, move into the property armed and like just be as annoying as possible to make this Connors move out. I'm sure if you Google it, I.

[Tony J. Robinton]

Mean, but there's two separate issues here, right? There, there's the squatting issue and there's the, you know, the, the seller finance. Not even seller finance. This, this is a sub 2 deal, right? And again, let's just like quickly define those differences. Seller financing in the general sense is I own a property free and clear and I'm going to sell it for Ashley and I'm going to finance those payments for Ashley. So instead of Ashley going out to bank of America or Chase and getting a mortgage to pay, right? So instead of, you know, 20% down and 80% being funded by bank of America, Ash is going to give me the 20% down payment and then I'm going to let her spread the other 80% out in payments over some predetermined period of time. That's seller financing. Subject to is when same property, but I've got a mortgage on it and I'm going to let Ashley buy it subject to the existing mortgage. So what that means is Ashley comes in, she still maybe gives me a down payment of some sort, right? But then she takes over payments on the loan. My name's, everything that I did still stays in place. But now Ashley is making those payments on my behalf and, and I, I'm able to kind of quote unquote step away from the property. Now I, I still have the debt tied to it, right? And depending on how they set this deal up, maybe my name is or is not on title or. But that's the difference between sub 2 and seller finance. Seller financing means there's no debt, traditional debt, and sub 2 means the original debt is still in place.

[Ashley Kerr]

So with seller financing, let's say I sold a property to Tony and I decided to sell or finance. He's making payments to me, he stops making payments. The property is free and clear. So I'm not that worried about a ton of holding costs. I have to go through the foreclosure process or I've seen investors like negotiate and basically do like a cash for keys or like just sign the deed back over to me. We'll skip the foreclosure thing. Here's you know, five grand or something to do that. But you go through the foreclosure process but sub 2, you are not the owner of the property, but the debt is still in your name. So Tony stops making payments to my lender. The lender is coming after me, not Tony for those payments. But so I have to in the meantime keep paying my payments so my credit doesn't get destroyed and go ahead and start the, the costly foreclosure process. Well actually no, you can't even foreclose on them because they don't own you any debt. So go after them for legal action. But like I don't even know where to start start.

[Tony J. Robinton]

I wouldn't either, you know. And I think that's the tricky part of this is that you're fighting two things, right? There's the, the money owed for the sub two transaction and then there's the, the squatting issue as well. I would probably go after the. But actually can they even squat? I don't even know if it's squatting because their name is on title now. I mean man, it is a really tricky situation. I think the first thing that I would do and it sounds like you've already started this, right? 5k in legal retaining or 5k to retain an attorney. I, I don't even know if I could do anything else or offer any advice above and beyond that because it's like what legal standing do you have? I would assume, I would hope that there was a really rock solid contract in place when this transaction happened and they mentioned contract for deed. So hopefully whatever that is gives you the, the legal protection to actually go after these folks. But either way it sounds like it's going to be a long and lengthy battle with, with no clear cut action unless you do it. Ash says where it's like, hey, instead of me paying this attorney $20,000 to solve all this, let me just pay you person who I'M not super fond of right now. Let me just pay you 20k and let's be done with this. Sign everything back over to me, move out and be done. That might be the best option.

[Ashley Kerr]

Another thing that I would be fearful of is so he says he signed a legal lease with the tenants that are in there, but is it actually a legal lease? Because he has no right to the property. So at any time the people that actually own the property could say, like that's not so technically the Airbnb people could be squatting and the owners of the property could take legal action against them.

[Tony J. Robinton]

Very true. But again, we don't know the details of the contract, so maybe title hasn't shifted yet. And I think if it hasn't, then that obviously changes things a ton because now you still have legal standing as.

[Ashley Kerr]

The owner to go through and do an eviction on them.

[Tony J. Robinton]

An eviction. Right. But if you're just a lien holder, like I've got a mortgage with PennyMac. PennyMac can't sign a lease for my properties and, you know, execute those things. Only I can. So there's a lot of nuance here and cash for keys, getting an attorney, those are the really only paths that I'm aware of that would be beneficial here.

[Ashley Kerr]

Basically what I, I feel like if for sub 2, it's basically me co signing for somebody. So like, think about like, you know, you, you want to go and buy a car when you're young and you, you can't, you, the bank says you have no credit, you got to get a co signer. So grandma's like, oh, don't worry sweetie, I'll co sign for you. And grandma co signs and then you stop making the payments. Grandma can't. You're the only one on title of the car. Grandma can't take your car away. But she still has to make the payments because she's, you know, liable in that sense. So basically when you do sub 2 to someone, unless there's, you know, a Pace Morbi way that I'm sure he has this all figured out, maybe this question should go to Pace who's the expert in sub 2 as to what you do on the other side of it. I think we hear a lot of stories about people buying houses using sub 2 as a strategy, but very rarely am I hearing in the investing world where you sell a property Sub two as an investor. So I, I don't have a ton of experience in this as to what would happen.

[Tony J. Robinton]

Yeah. And honestly, I feel like this is becoming something that I'm hearing more of though, where some of these sub 2 deals are, are going sideways for the sellers. Because I mean, depending on the situation, maybe these guys got into the deal with no money out of pocket. They've got no debt in their own name. Like the, the motivation for them to stick with the deal if things go sideways is very low because they've got nothing on the line. Right. When you talk about skin in the game, they've essentially got none. And, and unless they're just a person of high integrity, which it seems like these people are not, it becomes, I think, a lot easier for them to walk away and put the, the sellers in a pretty sticky situation. So, man, it's a rough one.

[Ashley Kerr]

In like a big thing I have seen like in forum posts and on social media is like people say, like off, like asked to do sub 2 because there's people that are in a position where they have no other choice. And like there's never. I never see anything or I've never been educated about like, protections for that person. And I know like in sub 2, like you're supposed to do things like through a trust or things like that, but. And I don't know if that protects the seller, but usually it's like the seller's backed in a corner. They have no other choice in their life to do something with this property. They're underwater or whatever may be happening. They can't sell it and you're coming in and saving them. But what happens if you can't make the payments anymore? What happens to them?

[Tony J. Robinton]

Yeah, tricky, tricky. Not often that Ash and I get a question where we're like, man, this just sucks. But I think this might be one of those situations where unfortunately not a whole heck of a lot we can do. All right, guys, we're going to jump into our last question in just a moment, but we're going to take a quick break first. And while we're gone, if you haven't yet subscribed to the real estate rookie YouTube channel, be sure to do that. You can find us at realestate Rookie and we'll be back with more right after this.

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[Tony J. Robinton]

They say life insurance is like a parachute. If you don't have it when you need it, it's too late. That's why I wear a parachute everywhere I go. Sure, I get weird looks at the grocery store and my yoga class is next to impossible. But the point is, being prepared matters, especially when it comes to life insurance. If you're new to it, you're not alone. Select Quote has been around for over 40 years and they've helped more than 2 million Americans find over $700 billion in coverage. And they're actually a broker, which means they don't push just one plan. They compare dozens of top rated insurers to find the one that fits your health, your lifestyle and your budget. And they work for you for free. They even offer same day coverage up to $2 million, sometimes with no medical examination. And if you have preexisting conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, you're still in the game. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and Save more than [e-mail] BP Rookie Save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] BP Rookie Today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com BP Rookie all right, let's jump back into our final question. And the final question today comes from Grant. And Grant says, I'm renting an apartment in a complex that has a washer and dryer normally installed in each unit. But this unit I am purchasing does not have one. So there's no washer and dryer. I know it's one of those appliances that breaks down frequently. Should I install one or have tenants pay for one and require them to have professional installation? So pretty straightforward question here from Grant. Should you or should you not include some of you know, whether it's washer and dryer, maybe any of the other Appliances, should you or, or should you not? Ash, you are our resident property management queen for all things long term rentals. So let me ask you, in your portfolio today, are you including or excluding washers and dryers?

[Ashley Kerr]

First of all, I only pick questions like this to hear you just so.

[Tony J. Robinton]

I can hype you up. That's what we're here for.

[Ashley Kerr]

So I, it depends on your market. So first of all pull complaints. Comparable apartments, properties, what's being offered. So if you ran your numbers based on other properties in the area getting twelve hundred dollars per month, is that based on them having appliances included? Because if you're going to charge 1200 and they have appliances and you don't, it's going to be way harder to fill that unit because you're actually not comparable to the other ones at that price. So see what's in your market. And also I no longer do, if I supplied it a long time ago and they're still running, I keep them there. Or if someone has left one there, I will say this is, somebody left this here. We are not responsible for it. It's provided in my put right into the lease. We do not perform maintenance on it. But there's just very limited, especially where I am out in the rural area. There is one vendor that works on the appliances that, that is good, that's trustworthy, that has, you know, taken care of us. We've had other random people that either don't show up or things like that. But like I think that's like one big reason too is like do you have a role, you know, a bunch of people that you can actually call vendors to make these repairs and maintenance because appliances are like one of the harder things that I have found to actually get people in to, to work on them because it's usually not your regular handyman that knows how to fix the Samsung TV that has all the, or Samsung fridge that has all these electronics tied to it to get it going. But so I think like looking at that as to what vendors are in the area. If you buy a brand new one, what kind of warranty comes with it and what is the service like? I usually don't like warranties because they don't seem to care as much as like getting things done in a timely manner because you're, you're getting, you're already paying them for it through the warranty and it's not like they have to, you know, try to get your repeat business because you're under the warranty and you have to call them. But so I don't like that as much but there are like around here we have like an Orville's which is like a bigger appliance place and they do like have a service side to them which we've used a couple times. But also knowing what brands of appliances you have like our main vendor only works on certain brands of appliances. So we make sure if we are replacing an appliance or supplying one, we are only buying the brand that they actually work on too. But I just think there's so many issues and appliances do not last as long as they used to. When I bought the house I'm living in right now, our live and flip, the people left the washer and dryer here. I was ecstatic. It is an old Maytag top loader washer and then the dryer in this, this thing is probably 15 years old at least. But it runs better than any washer I've ever had in my life. And once I leave this house, this live and flip is done, I am taking that thing with me. That new owner is not getting it part of the deal.

[Tony J. Robinton]

I, I, you make a lot of really good points Ash. And you know, I think it is very much dependent on market and where I'm at in SoCal, the apartment complex I lived in before we got our primary residence, it came with everything. It came with washer, dryer, the, you know, range microwave, fridge. We had all of our appliances and if anything went wrong that's they would take care of that. But it was also common in this area, right. Like they wouldn't have been able to charge as much or wouldn't have been comparable had they not offered those things. But I do think that if you do opt to include those things in your rental, just be prepared that sometimes instead of servicing them, you just have to replace them all together. And here's what I mean by that. You talked about warranty. We had this just happened to us maybe two weeks ago at one of our short term rentals where guest was there fridge goes out and we just bought the fridge within however recent it was. So under warranty. But the warranty the person can even get out to check it for like a week, right? So think we can't not have a fridge at an Airbnb for a week. So we had to buy a new fridge, ship it to the property or have our handyman pick it up. Then the warranty guy finally came and then we had to try and return the fridge that we bought for that week back to Home Depot. So it was Just, it's a pain, right? So sometimes you just have to jump through those hoops if you do opt to include it. But to Ash's point, if it's not super common, maybe you can avoid that headache and just avoid it altogether.

[Ashley Kerr]

And too, it's not like you have to include all appliances. Like, if there is a built in dishwasher space, we will include the built in dishwasher. That's like not something we're gonna not there. You know, you show the apartment, there's a big hole, you know, where the dishwasher goes. Oh, if you want dishwasher, go ahead. One other thing we do run into of like, if we do require them to hook up their own is if there's like a gas hookup. A lot of times they will ask my maintenance person if they will hook it up for them if they're bringing their own, like gas stove or their gas dryer. And we always say no because we don't want the liability of not hooking it up correctly. And like all of a sudden there's a gas leak and it, you know, it comes back on us. So we always stay away from hooking up appliances that the tenants bring into the property. Or like, maybe it's something that's malfunctioning with their appliance that they got. They bought off Facebook Marketplace. But I don't want to be the one that was responsible because we insisted installed it for them. So that's one thing too, is that we don't supply that at all if they ask for it.

[Tony J. Robinton]

I just want to share one quick anecdote before we wrap. Ash, My. My dad and my stepmom, they were looking for a new rental and they walked this home and it was new construction, like just been built. But as they were describing the story to me, they were like, it seems like whoever built this, like, ran out of money as they were finishing this off. And they said that they walked into like the, you know, up to the property from, from the, from the sidewalk and there was turf. But they were like, it looked like they had like installed the turf themselves because there was like wrinkles in the turf. Like, you could see visible wrinkles and you can see the stitching. And they're like. We went inside and like there was the. The bathroom downstairs. Instead of there being a vanity, there were these small three circular mirrors where they almost look like decorative mirrors. But, like, if you sit in front of them, like my dad, you know, he's like as tall as I am, he's like, I Could only see like my, my belly button looking in the mirrors. And. And then the reason I bring this up is because we're talking about amenities. And they were in the master bedroom and they go from the master bedroom into the closet and there were no rods in the closet. And my dad and my stepmom are like, well, where are we supposed to hang our clothes? Like, where are the rods? And the agent who was showing them the place said, oh, if you want those, it'll be extra on your rent. Oh my God, I never heard that in my life. It's like I gotta pay extra to hang my clothes up. So anyway, guys, okay, next time you.

[Ashley Kerr]

Gotta find out where that is because next time I come visit, we're gonna go and tour the property and make content out of it. Along those lines is, I do remember apartment complex near me where it was brand new construction and the way they built it was closets with a washer and dryer and they would lock the door to the closet unless you paid. It was like 50 or $75 extra, extra a month. And they would unlock it and you got to use the washer and dryer. So they did that too.

[Tony J. Robinton]

Yeah, that sounds so silly to me because like if I'm living there and I'm not paying for the washer and dryer, but I know it's behind that door, I'm just, I'm like opening that lock, right?

[Ashley Kerr]

Just drill it out and then change the thing before you move out. When you move in a section, put.

[Tony J. Robinton]

It in or don't put it in, but don't put it in and lock it in my own house, you know.

[Ashley Kerr]

Supposed to take advice from landlords on the show.

[Tony J. Robinton]

I just, it's more so a lesson to the landlord, like don't that that's like a silly way to kind of upsell your clients, you know, upsell your tenants.

[Ashley Kerr]

Well, thank you guys so much for watching today. I'm Ashley Hughes. Tony. And we'll see you guys next time.

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[Tony J. Robinton]

Hey rookies, if you're watching this, we want you to apply to be a guest on the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. That's right. Ashley and I are looking for amazing stories just like yours to be a part of our Real Estate Rookie Podcast. Now look, you don't need to be an expert. You don't need to have done thousands of deals. Even if you've done one deal, your story could help inspire the next listener.

[Ashley Kerr]

As a rookie investor. Especially if you just got your first deal. It is all fresh in your minds and you are the best person to tell your story. Give your experience on how you got it done to help someone else get their first deal.

[Tony J. Robinton]

So head over to biggerpockets.com guest if you want to be a part of our show. Again. That's biggerpockets.com guest and we'd love to have you on.