C (3:10)

Yeah, it seems like some ptsd, but I definitely get it. It's. It's so hard, especially then with bookkeeping tax season. It, you know, can kind of just not having the right system again, which is one property, can really create a headache for all different reasons.

A (3:24)

So how do you help someone tell the difference between normal growing pains and I need better systems now?

C (3:32)

That's a great question. I think, like, really identifying, like, what is the problem for I can give a perfect example. Like, I remember I was talking to someone who was like, my virtual assistants are the problem. I'm like, all of them, like, you know, every. Every single one, and they were from different places. And I'm like, five people can't be the problem. Let's talk more about it. And it really was. All of them were complaining that there wasn't one place for them to look. So if they're like, oh, who's the cleaner for 123 Main street and it was someone doing arbitrage at scale. They have over 100 properties. They would take them, you know, 30 minutes to find the vendor. And this is an emergency situation. And so I think like, just digging in of like, what is the problem kind of coming in from what a system fixes. Because usually, you know, you can. Whether it's a communication issue, whether it's a I can't find things issue, whether it's like, you know, not clear on the process issue. It usually can come from having a better system, having a standard operating procedure or sop. I feel like that's usually kind of the key of most issues where growing pain is just going to be that there's, you know, maybe things are happening too fast. But again, like, with the right system, I think some of a lot of the growing pains can go away.

A (4:48)

And Jamie, can you explain what an SOP is and what it stands for?

C (4:52)

Yes. So SOP stands for standard Operating Procedure and just a fancy. I was like, fancy what? Way of saying, just like, what is your procedure? So, like, before we did this interview, I have a new sales rep I created the SOP for that was literally four sentences each, one sentence per bullet. Because that's all I have for right now. But it's a new role, and as it develops, that list will kind of go on. So if it's handling a maintenance request, you get the maintenance request, you delegate the maintenance request, then you pay the vendor. Obviously, very, very simple way of putting it, but really that SOP is going to be the base of, like, how something you want it to happen.

A (5:33)

Are you using any software to create these SOPs? I know, I've heard of Tango or Loom to help you create these things instead of just doing it from scratch.

C (5:43)

Great question. So I use kind of a combination of Loom, Scribe, and chatgpt. And so it really, like, I won't go too much into like the type of sop, but like with Scribe or Loom, those are going to be better for a simple process. For example, how I pay my vendors, I can record my screen inscribe. Just for people who don't know, Create creates a kind of like a document based on, you know, I click in the bas, I use Baseline, can click in the Baselane. You go to, you know, this tab. This tab, it would create an SOP for you. But with Loom, I would say it's more explaining. It's going to be a video. This is great. I. I have mostly Filipino virtual assistants on my team. And that's great because they're very visual. However, both Scribe and Loom, we would like, download into like, you know, whatever method, like CSV or like Docs. It would download it, we put it in the chat G to put it into my ideal formatting. And then I would say, like, sometimes you'll have a longer process, like maintenance requests. Right. You can't really use Loom or Scribe for one of those because a maintenance request is you know there's a lot of different steps and what ifs and if this happens and do this. And so that's going to be something that like I probably would start in chat GPT because guess what? Every real estate investor dealt with a maintenance request and it can kind of give you a basic of this is what happened. And then as you're going through a maintenance request kind of live, which I always Recommend making the SLPs when you're doing it because if not it just kind of creates duplicate work and then you might forget things. And so as you're updating it, then you actually update it to your exact process.

B (7:23)

Jamie, I couldn't agree more with that last point you made of making the SOPs as you're doing it. And I found that to be one of the best ways and we'll talk a little bit later about how to actually go about building these out. But I can't agree more with that statement. But I want to go back because I know that we, we may be all can deal with a little bit of pain in our business, especially as we're scaling. Like there are certain things are just like, yeah, it sucks a little bit, but hey, you know, I can manage it I guess. When you were personally earlier in your portfolio, what were some of those things that were painful but manageable at first that later became maybe bigger pain points or bigger bottlenecks for you?

C (7:59)

I would say not logging just like key information on the property. And what I would say the key information was like the furniture I have all midter term rentals. So just understanding what I bought, how old it was and because then when it's time to replace it or you know, you're submitting an Airbnb, you know, like a request because someone broke something, you need to know exactly what that is. I would say another thing is just like the key information would be like when my clothes on a property and we have like our inspection reports, we've gotten all this information on the property. And then also your, your insurance, you know, agent like what insurance do I have on the property? The coverages I would say of like the first year, I don't, I'm like I don't need to log all this. And then comes tax time and then you're like oh shoot, what is going on? Or you know, you're at the point where you want to get another quote and then you have to go through your email to find what was my insurance information so that I can get quotes. And so things like that that I would say that happen, you know, during like the acquisitions process or even things that might just happen once a that second year, you're going to be really upset at yourself for not at least having it saved in one area or one source of record for that information. I think like tax time is usually when investors really realize how not disorganized they are because then everything's in different places. So like information like that is definitely something that's key to. Although it may seem redundant and a lot of work, but just something for me that was like, okay, I need look a little bit better systems just to make tax time a little easier.

A (9:38)

If an investor is like ignoring these problems and just continues on. And I personally have done this when I first started out and waited a long time before I put my systems and processes in place. But if they just keep managing everything manual, what starts to happen if they ignore these problems?

C (9:57)

I think two key things. One is burnout. Like just there will become a time where you're like, you can't do it. I've seen people are like, I just had to extend my taxes. I don't care how much I owe because I just cannot do it because it's too much. You don't want to get to that point because that's not just, you know, burnout. That's also missed opportunity slash money because, you know, you're paying or even opportunities where now I can't take on additional properties or if you're co hosting or, you know, providing services, you can't take on additional clients because you've reached your maximum. And so like if you're at the point where burnout is something that just kind of is, is taking you and then also saying no to things not because you don't want to, because you, your business can't handle it, that's a key sign as well.

D (10:42)

Yeah.

B (10:42)

And Jamie, I think the being a real estate investor forces you to wear a lot of different hats. And someone could be really, really good at door knocking and finding good deals and, you know, talking with sellers and you know, finding, doing all the work to acquire the deal. But they could also be very, very poor at what goes into being able to manage that asset and actually see it reach its full potential based on whatever underwriting you initially did. And I get that systems isn't like the sexiest word, but it is such a necessity for anyone that wants to scale beyond, you know, one or two properties because as you add more, chances are you're probably doing this while you're working a busy day a busy day job while you've got maybe family commitments or community commitments or whatever, it may be like you're not doing this in a vacuum. So you've got to be able to make sure that you're maximizing your impact while minimizing the amount of time it takes for you to actually manage these properties. And it starts with what we're talking about here.

A (11:40)

After the break, Jamie breaks down how to replace chaos with clarity without getting lost in tech or over building systems. As a real estate investor, the last thing I want to do or really have time for is to play accountants, banker and debt collector. But that's what I was doing every weekend, flipping between a bunch of apps, bank statements and receipts, trying to sort it all by property and figure out who's late on rent. But then I found baseline and it takes all of that off my plate and it's actually biggerpocket's official banking platform that automatically sorts my transactions, matches receipts and collects rent for every property. My tax prep is done and my weekends are mine again. Plus I'm saving a ton of money on banking fees and apps I don't need anymore. Get a $100 bonus when you sign up today at baselane.com BP BiggerPockets Pro members even get a free upgrade to Baselane Smart that's packed with advanced automations and features to save you even more time. We'll be right back.

E (12:45)

Okay, we're going to shift gears for a minute to cover something important, especially for new landlords. The shows often talk about getting stuck doing everything ourselves and the cost of sweat equity. The key question is simple, is my time better spent elsewhere? I use a tool that cuts down on a lot of landlord hassles and the wild part is it's just $12 a month. It handles rental screenings, rent collection, maintenance requests and accounting all in one platform via a mobile app or desktop. It saves me time in tenant communication and keeps me organized for tax season. It's called Rent Ready and you can sign up for a six month plan for just $1 with promo code BP2025. Pro users get it because we believe in it. Just sign in through your Pro account to get started. Rent Ready helps ensure on time rent with auto reminders, keeps communication professional, and lets you post listings to multiple sites. Check it out@rentready.com BiggerPockets that's rent R E D I.com BiggerPockets do you want.

D (13:39)

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A (15:10)

Okay, so now we're back and we've talked about why systems matter. Let's get to very practical. How does someone with one or two rentals actually start building them? So, Jamie, someone listening and maybe they feel overwhelmed right now thinking that we have been talking about them and this is how they feel. Where should they even start? What's the first system every investor should build?

C (15:34)

I would say a system that's your centralized operating system, which really is just gonna, like a fancy way of saying your system of record. This could be a Google sheet or an Excel file where you have a list of all your tenants, all your properties, all of your insurance or utilities. I just think that, you know, having something centralized, it's going to help and then you're going to build off of it, right? Like when you're buying, when you're applying for loans, there's a lot of different times when property information is needed. And even if you have two properties, instead of having to memorize the address and making sure that the zip code is right, you know, Just having a Google sheet, you know, of what that information is, you know, could really help out in the long run.

A (16:20)

That was like one thing that I created and I love. I call it my master entity list and capital letters and it's like starred in my Google Drive to like the top thing to like easily, easily access. And I have the LLC name, the ein number. I have each point of contact. So like who's the accountant, who's the bookkeeper, who's you know, anything that anybody would do for that llc, the va Then I have which properties it owns, I have any mortgages that are in any of those properties, who the lender is, the bank accounts, I have the routing number, I have the account number. I can't even tell you how many times I go to have to look up the routing or account number to like do a quick pay an invoice through email or things like that. That this is like made it so simple. But I think just, I agree starting out with some kind of spreadsheet or document that has all of that basic information in one place for you has been like super, super helpful for me it's just like a starting point.

B (17:24)

So I'm going to echo what both of you just said. I call ours isn't the, what did you call it? The entity master, command center, whatever. I like command center ours. It the property tracker. But it has a lot of those same details. I just pulled mine up. So we have the date that we, that we purchased it, we have our purchase price, what we originally bought it for, the escrow company that we used, our settlement statement, our closing disclosures, the entity name, our short term rental permits, our parcel numbers, what day the trash gets taken out. Because that's big for short term rentals we don't have. I like to have in the bank details we have like the, the last for the debit card associated with that property, the door lock type. Like you know, we have different door locks on different properties. So just all those details that you feel like you find yourself trying to reference getting them into one location, especially as you start to build the team around yourself. One of the best things that I think we've ever done. Now Jamie, one of the reasons I think we all kind of like bonded over this is because we all were also using the same tool I believe for, for most of this. So I use Monday. Ash, what are you using?

A (18:32)

Yeah, I'm using Monday Monday.

B (18:34)

And Jamie.

C (18:34)

Yeah. Monday.

B (18:35)

Com, Monday.com as well. Right. So we are all Monday.com evangelists. So Monday if You're listening to this. You got to make sure you sponsor some episodes in the future because we love the product. Jamie, sir, are you building out your. I guess, let me maybe frame the question this way. How do you decide what lives inside of a tool like Monday.com because there are other options out there, like airtable notion. Like there's lots of other popular options out there. Google Sheets, Google Sheets even. And I guess that's what I was going to ask like how do you decide what lives inside of just like a basic Google Sheet versus what makes more sense inside of your actual property management software or management tool?

C (19:11)

That's a great question. And I think it really comes to the intended purpose, right? So like let's say you're someone who has one property. Your purpose is just having the information somewhere. I'll tell people all the time, don't use Monday, use a Google Sheet. If you have one property, you might not buy another one for a while. Google sheets probably going to be your best bet. But the great thing about Monday, and there's I'm a Monday nerd. So like there's work management, which is probably when you think of Monday. When you Google Monday, that's what comes up. But there's the Monday CRM. Just know I'm particularly talking about the Monday CRM because it has different capabilities. With the Monday CRM it really takes things to the next level of like, okay, so I have a property in New Orleans. I have to get termite pest control. If you don't get it exactly 364 days before it goes from 300 to 3,000. So I need to pay that 300 to scam. But anyway I'm not missing that date. And then also I want to do it after the fiscal year for tax reasons. Whatever. I'm not missing that date. If it wasn't Google Sheet, I would still have to put a reminder somewhere of that date. All right, I'm not going to remember. I know now because it's like PTSD, it's January 7th, but I don't want to have to remember right like that date all the time. But in Monday I can have it listed, right? Have it. Mine's called just like my property management board. And then I have a reminder of 14 days before that due date. I'm getting a reminder for like. And then I build off of that. Like now I have a virtual assistant who handles property management. So he's getting that information in the email and is told to pay it. And so then you know, like Monday.com or any system. Right. Like Asana Notion. There's similar systems ClickUp that will do those actual automations for you. And I think another thing is with this Monday CRM especially, it could take some of those tasks away. So a lot of times things we have to do as investors or email someone are a checkout is happening, a maintenance request is happening, someone needs to stop by the property for xyz And I for me wanted to use a system that can then take care of sending that email. Because if I'm sending the same email to the same person, even if it's quarterly, you know, by, you know, biannually, if it's annually or if it's every three years, right. Like I want to be able to send those things automated. And that's from maintenance requests. I raise private money for my deals. Right. There's not really a system when you raise private money of making sure that those lenders are getting the information and are getting paid. And so really Monday.com for me has been. Has really helped me take that next step. And like, for people who actually want to be able to do some of those things with automations and things, that's where like a system like Monday could help versus like a Google sheet or another spreadsheet.

A (22:00)

So Jamie, I want to clarify a little bit here. Are you using Monday.com as your property management software then too, or are using anything else outside of that?

C (22:11)

No, I use Monday.com literally for everything. So for, I say like, for so like acquisitions when a new I pretty much buy things on market, my virtual assistant scrubbing Zillow based on my criteria, entering the data into my money.com board. So like the data you would get from Zillow, the per, you know, the price they want, not the price I'm gonna pay, but you know, square footage bedroom bathrooms. Because I'm buying a certain type of property in the same market, all my calculations are done by Monday because I know I can get a thousand per bedroom. So Monday's doing those calculations and spitting out my projected cash flow. And then if it's it meets my criteria, I'm being alerted to take the next step and basically do some more due diligence to make an offer or if it doesn't meet my criteria, I don't see it. And so from that to property management, the only thing Monday can't do is rent collection. So I use baselane for rent collection. It can't collect any type of payment. And then even from like asset management. So I have a equity partner on a deal. And she's getting basically automated reports so I don't have to email her, you know, every quarter to tell her what's happening.

A (23:21)

Yeah, that's interesting. I never thought of it as like a property management tool, but that would definitely work. I use for my short term rentals, I use Hospitable. Then I use Turbo tenant for my long term rentals. And then my Monday.com board is more of a just like tracking or like if I'm doing a rehab to track the rehab project, different things like that. Tony, how are you using Monday and then what other software are using to kind of complement it to manage your properties?

B (23:48)

Yeah, more in the way that you, you described, Ash. It's more of a, of like a repository of information. But I'm still using my, my property management software, Hospitable for my short term rentals. You know, price labs, you're pricing all these different things. But we are using it similarly to how Jamie described where we wanted to automate some of the work associated with these things. Like, I'll give you guys a real example. We had a property where we missed the deadline to renew our short term rental permit. And when that happens, it is the worst thing because not only do you effectively have to close your short term rental until you can then go through the entire approval process all over again. The price is also double for a new application versus a renewal. So even though we're the same exact owners, same exact property, nothing changed, they're treating it as a new application because the original one expired. So instead of it being like, you know, I don't know, like, I think it's like $400 for a renewal. It was like close to a thousand dollars for a new application.

C (24:46)

Right.

B (24:46)

So we're doubling the cost there. So anyway, it was a big deal. We had to shut the property down, had to pay double the fees. Wanted to make sure that didn't happen again. So now inside of Monday, we already have the short term rental permit on there. Now we just added another column that says permit expiration date. And we have now reminders that go out 90 days before that expiration date, 60 days before that expiration date, 30 days before, 21 days before and seven days before. So now there is literally no, there should be no chance of us ever missing a permit renewal. And it's because all of that's automated through Monday. So that, that is one of the big reasons that we like it, because there is that functionality there. So it's a bit of a blend. Ash. We're using it both in the way that you and Jamie are using it. So Jamie, you talked about this a little bit, right? Like you talked about acquisitions, you talked about the actual property management. But how do you personally break your rental business into its different buckets or categories and how does that kind of correlate with how you're using your project management software?

C (25:43)

Yeah, so I break it down into like I call them department. So like acquisitions, property management and then asset management also dispositions if I'm selling anything. And then I have like a CEO kind of department where it's basically things that I have to do. And so I think with that it helps because like back in with Monday.com but also I'm sure with other tools is you can kind of build your automations based on those things. So if it's like if it's you know, an acquisitions tool, we know time is money. We know that with acquisitions that goes a lot faster. So our automations for due date is a lot like there's a lot sooner. Like something comes in, we need to do it now. Where maybe asset management, that's really going to be the things that are done. Like think of like your owner's reports, right. Think of like your high level. How is my portfolio like performing could also be looked at as before. Portfolio management. That's really for me and my partners internally. Right. That's not something that needs to be done right now. So we can kind of set due dates apart from that. And then I think too of like what I want to delegate. I know I mentioned a little bit I use virtual assistants and my goal is to not have to work. And I have a consulting business like with Monday.com like and I help investors with their systems and so I want to focus on that. I don't want to be focused on my midterm rentals day in and day out, especially with midterm. And my average length of stay is about five to six months. We don't have a lot day to day. And so the things we do have are going to be your. Like when someone moves in all of those, you know the messages they're getting, the movement instructions, the confirmation reminding them of trash day below trash day or wi fi. Right. Things that might already tell them but we know they're going to have a reminder in and then also the things for the move out instructions, some properties like I'm in a HOA that they have to like turn in their parking badge and things like that where you know there's there's things that are happening at the beginning, kind of end of that process. So like automating those has been really helpful and then just kind of having the virtual assistant in the middle. So like anything that I can delegate, right. I want to, I want to have categorized or, you know, put into money.com because then, you know, someone else can do it. And then also I would say things that are happening reoccurringly and reoccurringly could be monthly or even annually.

A (28:12)

Can you maybe walk us through how you turn something messy into something beautiful like a turnover or maintenance issue into a repeatable process that someone could do over and over again?

C (28:23)

Sure. So I would say let's do my maintenance process. So my strategy, and I was talking about the last episode is more working with businesses for midterms. So while my properties are on Airbnb and different sites are mostly working direct. And the problem with direct is direct could be email, right. It could be text, it could be different things. And so one thing I do, the only way that we take maintenance requests is by someone filling out the maintenance form. If you text us, if you email us, if you, we tell you, if you. However we're not, we're going to say fill out the form. What I've done is took it a step further. I have a QR code that's actually on the refrigerator of each property that takes them to the form so that like, I'm sure you're eating every day so you can see, you know, that the, the maintenance request form is there. And I just tell like all my tenants that that just ensures that we get it timely. And then also it asks all the questions that we're going to ask anyway. And so it's a short form, maybe like five questions in Monday.com you can have triggers. So like if someone says it's water, right. Water is very bad and can be very detrimental to a rental property. And so there's additional questions, like where is the water? Can you include a video? How deep is the water? Right. If it's a standing water issue. And so Ben, then they fill out the maintenance request form. A few things happen. One, they automatically get an email that says hi so and so. And then based on what they select, like there's automations on kind of what this will say, but essentially says, hey, so and so, thank you for your maintenance request. If it's urgent, it's going to say we got good requests, we're on it. We're going to be in touch as soon as possible. If it's, you know, WI fi. We remind them, you know, our business hours are 9 to 5. You know, we'll get in touch with you when we can. You know, it's not more professional than that. But even I think, like, I have four properties, but I still want to run a professional management company. And so even them knowing and just getting the confirmation that, oh, hey, they got it, I know they got it. I know they're handling it, you know, that's helpful. Is it on the back end? It's being logged into the system. Everyone on the real estate team, which is me. And then also one of my virtual assistants is being notified of, of that request. And then my virtual assistant is taking it forward. We have another. They're called boards of the property vendors because I'm in three different markets. And then, so based on the category that's selected, my virtual assistant would choose the appropriate vendor. Then once they're selected, they're notified automatically via email as well of the request. And then from there, you know, there is a lot of back and forth. You know, not a lot, but there could be back and forth depending on the maintenance request. And just what my SOP says is it has to be logged. So even if, like, I'm dealing right now with the washing machine, that, knock on wood, it's hopefully done. But there's been maybe three or four, you know, different conversations with the tenants with my handyman of this install. And so every time something happens, it's being logged in Monday, like talk to handyman, wrong washer was bought, or you know, talk to tenant, washing machine still isn't working. All of those things were logging. So that when it comes down to five months later, and maybe there's an issue, maybe there's not, or maybe, you know, unfortunately, sometimes there's, especially with Airbnb, like, a tenant could come back and say, hey, this wasn't done, or, you know, Airbnb usually coincide with the guest. And so I even like having that log that I could print out that I could, you know, download the PDF, screenshot, whatever I want to do to show, okay, this is exactly what was done and this is when it was done. And so that means, like, with the maintenance request, I don't. We're not going through email, text, you know, like, whatever other like WhatsApp and, you know, Airbnb, let's say, although there might be a different method of communicating everything is logged in Monday. And so I know my VA knows if someone else is hired on the team, they know exactly, kind of what happened with that request? And then a good thing kind of when I say was like asset management, what I do of like putting my CEO hat on is quarterly I'll review the maintenance request. So like with this washing machine issue I'm having, I noticed that there was three repairs. There shouldn't be three repairs on a washing machine. That's wasting money. We can just replace it. And so that's something like my virtual assistant. I say, hey, this is the third one because I'm not dealing with it day to day. But as I saw it and I was doing my review, like asset management, I realized, okay, I've spent X amount of money on this repair. There's been three repairs. It's time to replace this.

A (32:58)

Jamie, I guess why haven't you decided to switch to a property management software that has a lot of this already integrated into it? So like for your the, the maintenance issue, like switching to a property management software that has like the troubleshooting built into it. The, the AI chat that's talking with the, the tenant, then having all that communication in one place instead of having to, you know, screenshot it from text and then uploading it into Monday. What do you see as the benefit of using Monday compared to a property management software?

C (33:34)

I would say of like using a prop because I have used and I used to co host. So I used like a software as in if you used to have short term rentals as well, it's like there's no channel management. So that's, you know, like a drawback that Monday.com has. But for me, when I had a pro, like a property management software, I also needed something for the information because I think like a property management software will do some of the things but you know, you can't keep. Like I have three lockboxes for all properties. One that's visible to that are completely hidden because I've had too many lockouts, right. I couldn't put all the different locations of those, you know, attached to my property file as well as I have different types of business. Like I have a business, my portfolio and then also like a hire, right? Like I've hired a few virtual assistants this year. I can also have my hiring process on Monday.com and so for me, when I was looking at different tools, I realized one as like I want to grow a business that I can delegate and then also sell one day. I want to be able to have a tool that's the source of record. And definitely like Monday can have its drawbacks. You know, like with Payment, you can't collect payment. But then also no, you have to set up payment once. So it's okay with going outside of the, you know, platform to set it up once. But I think for me just having a system that I can train that I, you know, my virtual assistants and other team members can really learn and then also just having multiple hats of my business departments of my business in the same place helps me. And then also too I think with like there's different integrations and like Monday can integrate with QuickBooks, Monday can integrate with different things that I'm also using for my bookkeeper for, you know, other outside vendors. And so I like that. And I think like I always tell people to try out multiple to see because for me I didn't like, I felt like doing property management half in the software and then half on like Monday or even Google Sheets because I had to keep the information where someone maybe who has like short term rentals, it might be better suited for them to have a property management software or channel management software like Owner5 etc and then just use Monday kind of like as a backup. But for me it was just kind of personal preference of really wanted everything in one place. And also I'm a data nerd so I like analytics and so I can track a lot of like the data like my, you know, average rent rate or like raising private money. I can use those analytics to then show my private lenders like, oh, this is how my property is performing, you know, loan me all your money. So a few different reasons, you know, for that.

B (36:12)

Well, Jamie, we talked about why building out these systems and processes are important. We covered how to actually start going about building those out. And I actually want me and Ash to share how we've started building out those in our own business as well. But then more importantly, once you've built it, how do you make sure you stick with it? So we'll cover those right after a quick word from today's show sponsors.

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F (38:53)

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B (39:22)

All right, we are back here with Jamie Biggs and we just discussed why creating systems and processes are so important as you build Your real estate portfolio. And Jamie shared some really strong tactics on how to start building those out. But Ash, you know, I want us to kind of open up the, the, you know, give a peek behind the scenes for our own business as well. If you remember, if you can, what was maybe one of the first things you built an SOP around and what was your process for actually putting it together? Because I think a lot of folks, again, can understand the importance, but it's the how where they actually get stuck. So I know I'm sending you in the time machine right now, but if you remember, what was that first one?

A (40:00)

Bookkeeping.

B (40:01)

Mine was also bookkeeping. That's funny.

A (40:03)

It was an SOP of enter in the website for the bank, get the bank login, login, go to bank statements. And then it was, I was using QuickBooks. Log into QuickBooks, go to this, you know, entity, go in, go to Reconcile. And it was like going through the monthly bank reconciliation from start to finish of what you would need to do. And that was my first one. It was just literally a Google Doc, step by step by step by step.

B (40:34)

Yeah, mine was almost exactly the same thing. We were using Stessa when we first started, and when we first launched our portfolio, I was doing all the bookkeeping and that was like one of the first things I wanted to get rid of. So we hired a virtual assistant. And as part of her training, I just recorded myself going into Stessa, categorizing every single one of the transactions, attaching the receipts. And that was the first SOP that I created. But now, obviously we've got lots and lots and lots of SOPs. We primarily use a combination of Loom and Google Docs for hours. But Jamie, I'm curious for you. How do you decide, like, what actually needs an SOP versus something that can just kind of like remain as a one off? Like, where, where is that? Where's that tipping point on the scale where it actually makes sense to turn it into an sop?

C (41:23)

I would say ask myself, like two questions. Like, one, is someone gonna have to do it again? Because I know I like to spend my time thinking about growing my business, not thinking about, you know, a process that I had to do a year ago and now I have to remember. And then also will it be delegated? Like, if I'm a lot of times, like, I'll do something once and I'll decide, okay, this is something that I'm then going to delegate. And so just taking that extra 15 to 30 minutes, you know, it's not always Fast to create the sop, but taking that extra time to create it then will, like, save me time later. And so I feel like if it's something that, like, you know, you're not going to do for a while or you're still maybe deciding between softwares, probably doesn't make sense to, you know, to systemize it or put it into a sop. But if you're going to be doing it on a recurring basis and. Or delegated, that's kind of like, my trigger is on. Like, a SOP is needed.

B (42:19)

I would agree. Like, anything that I find myself repeatedly doing that I don't want to do, that's usually the trigger for me. Like, okay, I need to. I need to put this into an sop. Like, right now we're actually dealing with this in our business, where we switched over to new payroll and scheduling software for our hotel. And I was the one that, like, kind of spearheaded setting this up. So I'm. I'm still kind of the one with a lot of this tribal knowledge. And it's been working great. But one of the things that I haven't offloaded yet was the actual publishing of the schedule. So, like, I literally. I've been getting texts from my team like, hey, Tony, schedule's not out yet. Schedule's not out yet. So I'm like, I just need to record the SOP so I can then give this to someone else to go knock out. But, you know, there is that pain of, like, man, it just takes longer when you have to, like, record it and, like, voice through everything that you're doing. But now this is like the fourth week in a row that I've done this, and had I just done it the first time, I. I wouldn't have to be doing it anymore. So I. I get that it's painful, but we gotta be able to kind of move through. Move through that pain so that we can delegate it to someone else.

A (43:16)

It's also so awkward talking through it, especially the first couple times you did. Okay, now I'm gonna go into this. It'll like. I think the first time I ever did that, I, like, stop the recording and start it over like three or four times. And I eventually was just like, okay, it doesn't matter, just record.

C (43:36)

Yeah, I think it was loom. It's really cool. They have, like, loom AI. So like, it takes out, like, you're like, ads and then filler words and stuff because I'm. Because then I'll forget I'm recording and I'm sitting There, like, what am I doing? Oh, I forgot. So, yeah, it's definitely something that can be awkward, but I feel like now I don't even know the number of SOPs that I have. But I've. I realized that it's easier to have it because then I can even If I have three or four SOPs that are a few, you know, like, lines long, I can throw that into, like, AI chat GBT to, you know, to kind of boost up, to make sound a little bit better or to even combine into one process. So, like, instead of like, oh, how to list on Airbnb versus Furnish Finder, you can have one, you know, that, you know, take two kind of incomplete ones, put it together. So, like, AI could kind of create one for you. So AI definitely, specifically, excuse me. Chat GBT for me helps. And then Also on chat GBT, you can actually upload your SOPS if I think I have the business chat GBT, but you upload your SOPS as your, like, company knowledge. So if my VA is asking about what's the checkout time at XYZ property, it pulls my SOPS, it links to Monday.com, it links to everything, and we'll tell them the checkout time. So that's another reason for having it is because then you can also train, you know, the AI tools on how to work smarter for you.

A (45:03)

I remember we had a guest on who talked about this where they took everything, every document they had for their company and they fed it to AI. And so it was like their company directory. So anybody on their team could ask a question. I just remember my team brain exploded after they said that. Like, oh, my God, that's such a good idea.

C (45:25)

Yeah. Or now it just, it integrates well, now it's even easier because it integrates with Google Drive. So assuming you have all your SOPs on Google Docs, it, you know, it just takes a few minutes. But that's been so helpful. Or it's like, oh, that's why I've created all these SOPs and taken so many hours. There's light at the end of the panel.

B (45:45)

I believe it also connects to Monday.com now, if I'm not mistaken, ChatGPT does. So if you're saving those things in any of those places, you can go there. So, Jamie, obviously we talked about how, why it's important we talked about how to do it, but I think for a lot of folks, they're worried about perfection as they start to build out that first or those first few SOPs. So how do you balance just getting it out versus it actually being good enough to be useful?

C (46:14)

How do you.

B (46:14)

How do you strike that balance? Because in my mind, it's an iterative process. And what your SOP looks like today is probably different than what it might look like a year from now. But you got to start somewhere. So I guess how do you draw that line of like, okay, it's good enough. Let me just hit. Hit ship. Let me hit publish on this one.

C (46:30)

Yeah, I think for me, of like, I look at it as like the first time you do it. Maintenance requests, that's a big sop. But if you're sitting down and you're doing the request and you're putting every single step and like, let's say three to four kind of different sections, like, you have number one, you have A, then you have the Roman numerals, right? You're never going to finish that sop. That SOP is going to be a work in progress for probably the rest of your life. And so what I like to do is like, okay, if I'm starting the SOP today, that's like the one I started today. I have four or five steps, right. I'm not going into right. That next section, you know, if you're on Google Doc, I'm just doing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm saying go to this website number two, submit the details right, Whatever, you know, process. And I would say of like, just put enough so that if you weren't feeling well, you know, or you're on vacation, the next time it came up, someone could read through it and at least know where to go. Right? Or at least like I rather someone come to me with one question, not 20 questions. So, you know, just starting somewhere is important. And I think like, or even something times I'll do because again, I love SOPs and systems is I'll just time block. Okay, I have 30 minutes to get this SOP to the correct place. Because if you're a perfectionist or you're like, oh, well, what if, you know, this happens or this of like, you know, it's just like, it's better to have something than nothing. Because remember, the purpose of the SOP is to help you is that next time, if you're doing it, you don't have to start from scratch. And. Or if you're delegating it, they have a base to start. And so like, you're not going to start. Perfect. You know, I used to work for a large corporation. I worked for Capital One. And like, that's where I learned system and processes. And so obviously my system and processes aren't as great as, you know, Capital One that's been around I don't even know how many years. That's 40,000 employees, right? That's my level of perfection. Like, my systems suck compared to them. But just knowing that I have the steps that I need to get through and just know of, like, for me, I'll create an sop. Well, guess what? I'm not going to be doing it. My virtual assistant is. So if my virtual assistant can do A to B without asking me, it's a success. I don't care what the SOP said. Right? It's a success. And so realize too, if you're doing it for you to remember and then you're like, oh, it's not perfect. Well, guess what? Oh, you're gonna see it. Or if it's for your VA or, you know, another team member, just making sure that it at least has the intended target of getting through the step. Like, it doesn't have to be perfect because again, like, I don't know, like, I use Open Phone, they change their name to I don't even remember. So technically, half my SOPs are wrong because it says Open Phone. That's okay. Next time that we use the SOP where we need that system, we'll just replace it and like it. Because you're always going to be updating your SOPs like it's going to be a living, breathing document.

A (49:25)

I've also done SOPs with people's names as. And then, like, if the position changes, it's, you know, not their name anymore. But I find, find and replace on Google Docs. Very, very useful in situations like that. But I guess, Jamie, before we wrap up here, when is the time that you fix a system? When do you realize that it's breaking and you actually need to go in and change or adjust or create a new system for something?

C (49:52)

Honestly, if you're spending more time thinking about how to do the process than doing the process, it's broken. So, like a maintenance request, I shouldn't be thinking about what to do. I should be calling, emailing, doing what I have to do to get, you know, the maintenance issue solved. Or even like this one key thing, underwriting, right? If we're analyzing deals or you haven't looked at a deal in a while and you're trying to remember how you analyze, or remember your underwriting assumptions, and remember, you could just have the SOP because you should be spending your time going from, you know, point A to point B and like securing that deal, analyzing the deal, writing your offer. That's where you're actually going to, you know, make your money in that deal, not in trying to remember how you analyze the deal.

A (50:36)

Well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on today and giving us a mini masterclass and SOPs and project management. You mentioned Monday.com, there's Asana, there's ClickUp, there's a ton of other programs that you can check out, like Jamie had said a bunch of times, like find what works for you to be able to do this. So, Jamie, where can people reach out to you and find out more information?

C (50:58)

I'm most active on Instagram. It's under my name, Jamie Banks, and in real estate.

A (51:02)

Well, thank you guys so much for listening today. If you enjoy the show, make sure to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform and make sure you are subscribed to Real estate rookie on YouTube. I'm Ashley, he's Tony, and we'll see you guys on the next episode.

B (51:16)

Hey, rookies, if you're watching this, we want you to apply to be a guest on the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. That's right. Ashley and I are looking for amazing stories just like yours to be a part of our Real Estate Rookie Podcast. Now, look, you don't need to be an expert. You don't need to have done thousands of deals. Even if you've done one deal, your story could help inspire the next listener.

A (51:35)

As a rookie investor, especially if you just got your first deal, it is all fresh in your minds and you are the best person to tell your story, give your experience on how you got it done to help someone else get their first deal.

B (51:48)

So head over to biggerpockets.com guest if you want to be a part of our show again, that's biggerpockets.com guest and we'd love to have you on.