Stop Buying Rentals (You Have Enough) and Do THIS Instead (Rookie Reply)

Summary

Real Estate Rookie Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Stop Buying Rentals (You Have Enough) and Do THIS Instead (Rookie Reply)
Release Date: March 7, 2025
Hosts: Ashley Kehr and Tony J. Robinson
Guest: Various listener questions from BiggerPockets forums

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Introduction

In this episode of the Real Estate Rookie podcast, hosts Ashley Kehr and Tony J. Robinson delve into strategic approaches for burgeoning real estate investors. Moving away from the traditional "buy, buy, buy" mantra, Ashley and Tony explore alternative strategies to optimize cash flow, effectively utilize existing assets, and scale a real estate portfolio without overextending. The episode is structured around answering listener questions sourced from the BiggerPockets forums, offering practical advice tailored for investors aiming to build a sustainable and profitable real estate empire.

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Owner Financing Strategies

Listener Question: How effective is the strategy of submitting two simultaneous offers—one conventional and one owner-financed—to a property with potential owner equity?
Timestamp: [00:10 - 09:10]

The episode opens with a listener's query about leveraging owner financing for a property owned since 1987. The listener considers submitting two offers simultaneously—one with conventional bank financing at a lower price and another with owner financing at or near the list price—to demonstrate seriousness and incentivize the seller.

Tony J. Robinson responds by clarifying misconceptions about property equity. He emphasizes that long-term ownership doesn’t always equate to full equity due to possibilities like refinancing, home equity loans, or reverse mortgages. He recommends using tools like PropStream to assess liens and mortgage balances before pursuing seller financing. Tony states:

"Just because they've had it for a while doesn't necessarily mean they own it outright." [03:17]

Ashley Kehr shares a personal anecdote where a seller requested her to outline the terms of a seller financing deal, illustrating the importance of being proactive in setting terms to facilitate negotiations. She suggests strategies such as:

• Submitting multiple offers through different channels (e.g., real estate agents, letters of intent)
• Utilizing letters of intent to directly communicate offers to sellers
• Ensuring clear and defined terms to streamline negotiations

Tony J. Robinson adds that while agents are legally required to present all offers, some may be hesitant to handle seller financing due to lack of familiarity. He advises investors to:

• Submit formal offers to ensure seller visibility
• Directly communicate with sellers if agents are unresponsive
• Target properties with expired listings for motivated sellers

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Scaling Your Real Estate Portfolio

Listener Question: As a 35-year-old with seven houses and a net worth of $700,000, how can I scale my portfolio to achieve $40,000 to $50,000 in passive income? Should I transition to multifamily properties?
Timestamp: [13:20 - 23:54]

The hosts tackle an extensive question from a listener looking to scale their real estate investments significantly. The listener currently owns seven single-family homes with moderate cash flow and is contemplating a shift to multifamily properties to boost passive income.

Tony J. Robinson begins by assessing the listener’s financial standing, noting the substantial liquid assets and the potential within the Self-Directed IRA (SDIRA). He highlights the opportunity to act as a private money lender within the SDIRA, potentially earning substantial returns with minimal effort. He advises:

"If you can get 10% every year and you're $81,000, you're getting $8,000 just from that." [15:58]

Ashley Kehr shares her experience with setting up an SDIRA, emphasizing its simplicity and the support provided by platforms like Equity Trust. She encourages diversifying investment portfolios through SDIRAs, illustrating how they can be leveraged for various real estate strategies beyond traditional stock market investments.

Key Strategies Discussed:

1. Private Money Lending via SDIRA:

   • Investing SDIRA funds into lending opportunities.
   • Earning interest passively with a structured plan to mitigate risks.

2. Reevaluating Current Portfolio:

   • Assessing the equity growth potential of existing properties.
   • Considering selling properties to reinvest in higher-yield opportunities like private lending.

3. Exploring Alternative Rental Strategies:

   • Co-Living: Renting individual rooms within a property to multiple tenants to increase revenue.
   • Midterm Rentals or Sober Living Facilities: Diversifying rental types to cater to different market segments and enhance cash flow.

Tony J. Robinson cautions against switching strategies without thorough analysis, as inappropriate transitions could lead to increased workload without substantial income growth. He underscores the importance of aligning investment strategies with personal goals, resources, and desired level of involvement.

Ashley Kehr echoes the sentiment, advising listeners to contemplate why they wish to scale and whether their current strategies align with their financial and lifestyle objectives. She suggests that patience and strategic reinvestment, rather than rapid expansion, can lead to more sustainable and substantial passive income.

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Managing Properties Remotely

Listener Question: How can I effectively manage and show a duplex property when relocating out of state without incurring high costs for property management services?
Timestamp: [23:54 - End]

The final segment addresses a listener's challenge of managing a duplex while relocating. The listener seeks cost-effective solutions for property showings and key handovers without relying heavily on property management companies.

Tony J. Robinson recommends leveraging real estate agents by offering them a flat rate for managing rental responsibilities. He shares his own approach, where he pays real estate agents a fixed fee (e.g., $500 per rental) regardless of the rental price. The agent handles:

• Listing and marketing the property
• Coordinating showings and tenant screenings
• Facilitating key handovers and move-in inspections

Ashley Kehr emphasizes the importance of maintaining quality control through active involvement in the tenant screening and vetting process, ensuring that the property is managed effectively while outsourcing administrative tasks to trusted professionals.

Practical Tips:

• Partner with a Reliable Real Estate Agent: Select agents who are willing to participate in the flat-rate model and uphold rigorous tenant screening standards.
• Streamline the Process with Technology: Utilize software like Rent Ready for electronic management, reducing the need for physical presence.
• Maintain Oversight: Stay engaged in critical decision-making processes to ensure property integrity and tenant quality.

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Notable Quotes

• Tony J. Robinson:
  "Just because they've had it for a while doesn't necessarily mean they own it outright." [03:17]

• Ashley Kehr:
  "I'm actually also doing my first self directed IRA too... it's pretty simple." [15:58]

• Tony J. Robinson:
  "Private money lending is a very, very passive way to generate income." [18:18]

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Conclusion

This episode of Real Estate Rookie serves as a comprehensive guide for new and expanding real estate investors looking to optimize their portfolios without adhering to the conventional accumulation strategy. By exploring owner financing, leveraging self-directed IRAs for passive income, and providing practical solutions for remote property management, Ashley and Tony equip listeners with the knowledge to make informed and strategic investment decisions. The hosts emphasize the importance of aligning investment strategies with personal goals, utilizing available resources effectively, and maintaining a balance between active management and passive income generation.

For more insights and personalized advice, listeners are encouraged to engage with the BiggerPockets community through forums, Facebook groups, and by exploring additional resources offered by the hosts.

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Stay Connected:

• Subscribe to the Real Estate Rookie YouTube Channel: youtube.com/realestaterookie
• Join the Real Estate Rookie Facebook Group: Real Estate Rookie Facebook

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Thank you for tuning into this episode of Real Estate Rookie. Remember to visit BiggerPockets for more resources and tools to enhance your real estate investing journey.

Transcript

[Ashley Kerr]

A lot of real estate content out there tells us just buy, buy, buy. But when do you have enough? And how do you figure the best plan to expand your cash flow?

[Tony J. Robinson]

We're going to discuss some kind of out of the box strategies on how to use your assets to increase your passive income and how to find the best blueprint to fit your real estate goals.

[Ashley Kerr]

Welcome to the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. I'm Ashley Kerr.

[Tony J. Robinson]

And I'm Tony J. Robinson.

[Unknown]

And today we're answering your questions from.

[Tony J. Robinson]

The bigger PO Markets forms.

[Ashley Kerr]

Okay, so here's our first question. Today, I want to put an offer on a property that's been owned since 1987, which me means owned equity and thus potential for owner financing. But of course, I have no idea yet if the owner is up for it. I'm wondering if anyone ever put two offers in a house simultaneously. One conventional financing at a lower price and the other owner financing at list price or closer to list price. What do you think of this strategy? In my head, it shows the buyer that you're serious and it forces them to really consider the owner financing because they'll get a better price plus the interest money. What other ways have you approached owner financing for a house that's on the market with a real estate agent, but it's been sitting for a bit and already had a price cut? Tony, let's address like the first thing here. And it says, I want to put an offer on a property that's been owned since 1987, which to me means owned equity. So what this person is saying that they think because the person has owned the property since 1987, they've paid off their original mortgage and they have a ton of equity in the property. So the first thing I think to state is this is not always true. Not everybody pays off their mortgage. Some people could go and refinance, put a line of credit on the property and pull that off, use a home equity loan on the property, do a reverse mortgage where they actually take payments and the mortgage balance starts to add up as you take payments out. This is available to like. A lot of seniors will do this to actually give themselves a monthly income without taking a full mortgage out on their property. And then when they sell their house or the estate sells their house, then that reverse mortgage is paid back. So the first tool that I would Recommend using is propstream. So you can go to propstream.com and on propstream they actually have a tool where they will look and see if there are any liens or judgments against the property. Also what an estimated value of that mortgage balance is based on the payments that have been made since the loan origination. You can also go to the court, county clerk, court records, which are online. And in there you can put in the owner's name and look and see what kind of liens are against them and if any of those liens or are for the property, that's a line of credit, mortgage or whatever to know for sure if they do have any debt that's still on the property. So that would be the first step for seller financing.

[Tony J. Robinson]

Yeah, great, great breakdown, Ashley, and very valid point that just because they've had it for a while doesn't necessarily mean they own it outright. The other part, or maybe the next part of this question is wondering if you can put two offers on a house simultaneously. And it's almost as if someone like listened to a bunch of our rookie replies and said like, hey, let me give you guys the perfect question to answer. So you, you absolutely can put more than one offer in on a house. And Ash and I both actually encourage you to do exactly that. You know, we most recently did it with our hotel purchase where we gave them a conventional offer and then we also gave them a seller financed offer and they went with the seller financed offer because it, it kind of better suited what they were looking for at the time. They get the interest.

[Ashley Kerr]

Tony, real quick, what you mean by conventional offer is that you with bank.

[Tony J. Robinson]

Financing, with traditional bank debt, right. So I had to go out to like the, you know, the local credit union get a traditional loan. You know, we had to put down 20, 25%, I think it was 25%, maybe 30% even. And much like what the person who asked the question said, we tried to make the conventional financing offer less attractive. So what that meant was it was a lower purchase price. We said, hey look, if we can do seller financed, we'll give you the 20%. But here's the other terms that we need to make this work. But if we have to go to the bank, here's what that's going to look like, right? So you know, you can't, you can put as many offers on a house as you want, right. If you want to give them 10 offers, you know, I do think it's a great way to try and steer the seller toward the offer that you feel is most advantageous for, for yourself.

[Ashley Kerr]

Tony, I'm selling a property and I did have, I'm using a real estate agent and I had a seller approach my agent and say that, you know, Would I be interested in seller financing? I said, yes. And so they said, okay, we would pay 125,000 for the property or do 25,000 down, and then the seller financing 100,000. And I said, okay, what are the terms? And the. The potential buyer came back and said, we. We don't know. What do you think is fair? And left it on me to come up with the terms. So I think it's usually the reverse. I've always presented the terms because I want to, like, show them at least where I'm at, if it's even worth negotiating. So I thought this was really interesting that the buyer asked me as the seller to actually set the terms, and I set the terms, and I have not heard anything back, so I don't know if that's a bad side or what. So we've had more showings on the property, so I don't know if my agent is using that as a negotiation tactic, but I. I thought that was funny.

[Tony J. Robinson]

And I think maybe one thing to call out to Ash is just like, what are, what are the different things that you can negotiate when you're. When you're offering seller financing? So the things that we kind of focused on are the actual purchase price. You know, it's what price are we agreeing to, the interest rate, if any, that you're paying, the amortization period of that loan, or like, how long are we amortizing this, the specific debt. And then, like, if there is a balloon payment due and when that balloon payment would be due. Right. And then I said, down payment, down payment will be the last one. Right. So those are kind of the big ones that you can leverage or kind of tweak and adjust as you're going through your seller financing negotiations. And, you know, maybe for you as the. As the buyer offering them a slightly higher purchase price makes more sense if you can get a slightly lower down payment and a slightly lower interest rate. Because if for them, the most important thing is just getting to their number, say, hey, look, I can give you your number, but I'm just going to need some support, you know, on these other kind of levers or variables that we can influence.

[Ashley Kerr]

Okay, so then kind of the last thing here is what are some of the other ways you have approached owner financing for a house that's on a market with a real estate agent, but it's been sitting for a while and had a price cut? So I think what this person already said was submitting two offers, was going to the agent and say, I'd like to make two offers, or if you have your own agent, have your agent present the two offers. You could just do a verbal offer where your agent is just saying, hey, here's the two things they're willing to do. If this is something they're even interested in, I'll draw, draw up the contract. Instead of wasting time drawing up contracts for both offers and then submitting them, you could also do a letter of intent. So I do this when it's kind of a tricky situation and I don't have confidence that the agents are going to play telephone correctly and tell the seller exactly what I'm trying to offer them. And I'll do a letter of intent where it states, you know, the property information and seller's information, my information, what I'm willing to purchase it for, and then what the terms of the purchase are. And then it just has like a little bit of disclosure like this is, you know, contingent on attorney approval and a full contract and things like that in it. But you could also do that. And if you just Google letter of intent, you can get a ton of examples of this too. And that is something you could do to give your offer directly to the seller without having to kind of play middleman too, but without having to do a full blown contract and have your agent write that up. Because if you're going to use this strategy on multiple deals for multiple properties, your agent is going to get exhausted and tired of working with you if you're constantly having them drop to offers for every single property and you don't end up getting any of them, especially if you're doing lowball offers like I do. So drawing up the letter of intent is a little way to fast track things.

[Tony J. Robinson]

I think the other thing too is that sometimes you're going to find some resistance from the listing agent to want to submit seller financing offers. Um, and actually, you know, you can check me if I'm wrong here, but agents are like by law required to show any formal offer to their client. That's correct. Right. But is that also true for an.

[Ashley Kerr]

LOI that I don't know. I don't know. I would think that no matter the form of the offer, I would think like they would. If it's, even if it's a verbal offer, I feel like they would have to have like an ethical obligation.

[Tony J. Robinson]

I just feel like, you know, is there's just a lot of agents out there who don't want to deal with seller financing because their biggest concern is, okay, well, how am I going to get paid in this transaction. And they just don't have the education around what seller financing looks like. So sometimes there is a need. Like if you're, if you're kind of feeling some weirdness with the agent, then I would just like really submit a formal offer. That way you do make sure that it gets in front of the seller. And then what I've heard other people do as well is, you know, and this might also piss off the listing agent. But you know, you got to do what you got to do. Like, but just go directly to the owner themselves and don't, don't try and cut the agent out, but just say, hey look, I submitted this offer to your agent. I just want to make sure you get a copy as well. And then sometimes the sellers are like, well what the heck, I never even saw this before, you know, so if you're getting some kind of weirdness and maybe try and go and direct to the, direct to the seller. And then last piece of advice is that like if you see the listing go expired, like the listing fails, that's a great time to then just directly reach out to the seller and say, hey look, I saw this. You just have this Property listed for 120 days. It didn't sell. Listings gone. Hey, I'm still a super motivated, motivated buyer. Let's talk. Because when is their motivation going to potentially be the highest once they've just failed at trying to sell that property the more traditional way.

[Ashley Kerr]

We have to take a short ad break, but we'll be back after this.

[Unknown]

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[Ashley Kerr]

Okay, welcome back Tony. What's our second question today?

[Tony J. Robinson]

All right, so our next question says I'm 35 and I've been investing in real estate for the last three years. I want to scale and buy a lot more real estate and lately I've been considering switching to multifamily. I currently own seven houses and have a net worth of about $700,000. Congratulations by the way. Most of my properties have an LTV of 65 to 70%. I'm self employed in my rentals, mostly break even or barely cash flow because the rates of my properties range anywhere from 7 and a half to 8 and a half percent. I'm hoping to refi down the road after my three year prepayment penalties expire. Here's a breakdown of my assets. Cash $165,000 Self directed IRA 81,000 Real estate 1.45 million crypto 10,000 My goal is to make anywhere between 40 to $50,000 in passive income. I realize this might be a bit ambitious given my current portfolio. Now here's a question. Do you have any suggestions on how I can scale my portfolio should I transition into multifamily? What are some of the things that you did to accumulate wealth and grow your portfolio through the years? All right, so kind of a lot to unpack here. I think the first thing is that feels like the person asking this question is in a pretty good spot from an asset perspective. You know, 165,000 bucks in cash. They got a self directed IRA with another 81,000 bucks, another 10k in crypto. So they've got a good amount of just like liquid or close to liquid funds, you know, 175,000, another 80,000 they can use to, to deploy elsewhere. I'm gonna, you know, the goal here is getting to 40 or $50,000 a year in passive income. Right. So we know that that's kind of the backdrop here. I know that we'll get into like the, the real estate side. But just one thing that kind of pops out to me actually, I'm curious what your thoughts are, but they have this self directed ira and for our rookies that are unfamiliar with that term, a self directed IRA is a retirement account that you get to kind of choose how and where to deploy those funds. Now there are some limitations on how you can legally use those funds. You got to make sure you're working with like a reputable, reputable self directed IRA company. However, you got 81,000 bucks in SD IRA, I might go try and lend that money out, you know, and if you can get 10% every year and you're 81,000, you're getting 8,000 bucks just from that. $81,000 is sitting in that self direct IRA right now. And I would imagine there are probably a lot of people in the real estate community, the BP community, who would love to have access to $81,000 of capital and pay you 10, 11, 12% every time you loan them those funds. So that's one thing to me actually that just kind of jumps out of some to maybe low hanging fruit to start quickly generating some cash.

[Ashley Kerr]

Yeah, I'm actually paying 12% right now to a private money lender. I'm actually also doing my first self directed IRA too. So I have this 401k from an old W2 job that's kind of just been sitting in index funds. And I'm going to roll it over into a self directed ira. I'm using equity trust to do that. And so I'm going to be using that to invest. So it's my first time ever doing one. And I have to be honest, like I Did not know all the details of a self directed IRA for a long time. I thought it was like too complex for me or something that I couldn't do. And it's actually pretty simple. You basically just fill out paperwork and then you have like equity. Trust is giving me like a counselor that's kind of guiding me through the actual process and what I can and cannot do with the funds and making it really easy. So if you do have money that's sitting in an old 401k or maybe you already have it in just a traditional ira, you can go ahead and put it into the self directed ira. So you're not limited to investing, just into the stock market. So I'm trying to diversify my portfolio. And so setting up this self directed IRA is something new and exciting to me. The first time I ever heard of a self directed IRA I was at a meetup and there was this guy and he was walking around basically waving his checkbook at everyone. Yep, I got money here, my self directed ira. So if you got a good deal, I'm here to lend and blah blah, like literally going around like showing off his checkbook and it was like my, like it was very intimidating. But like now looking back on it like, geez, I never want to take his money.

[Tony J. Robinson]

That's like every rookie investors dream to walk into a meetup and someone's just like kind of walking around with, with their checkbook. Right. That by the way, that's a very rare occurrence for all of our rookies that are listening. So don't expect to go to the meetups and probably see that. But yeah, some low hanging fruit there to maybe start generating some, some of the, some of the income itself. Right. But now kind of going back to the main question here, this person is asking any suggestions on how to scale, should I transition into multifamily? So what are your thoughts, Ashley? Like do you feel that there's value for this person, you know, seven properties, not a ton of cash flow right now, kind of high interest rates. Does multifamily make sense?

[Ashley Kerr]

I think the first thing you really have to think about is why do you want to scale and do you really want to scale? So right now the seven properties are breaking even there or a little bit of cash flow in there. So do you want to keep accumulating properties that are doing that or do you want to try and find a new strategy that gives you more cash flow but maybe isn't as passive? Tony and I think the hot new strategy in 2025 is going to be co living where you rent to buy the room, you build out a community. But that's also not as passive as just having a traditional long term rental. You have one or maybe you know, two tenants, but you have one tenant per a unit where co living could come up with tons of other situations of a bunch of people living within the same house. So really think about what you want to be involved in and what you don't want to be involved in at if you are deciding to pivot and change into a new strategy to generate more cash flow from your properties. I really like Tony's idea of the self directed IRA into money lending because that is can be very, very passive for you just to vet the deal, vet the operator who's actually purchasing the property and running the deal and then collecting your money every single month, your interest or at the end of the deal. And then you know, the worst case scenario is yes, if the person doesn't pay, you having to go after them to get their funds. And I recommend setting up a plan in place as to what should I do to protect myself as a private money lender. What should I do if somebody doesn't pay? What are the steps I need to take action on right away if that does happen and kind of set up your game plan. But I think private money lending is a very, very passive way to generate income. If you do have the funds to do that, the the next thing is thinking about those seven properties you do have now. The equity that you're going to build over the next 10 years in them. Do you want to sell one of those properties starting at, you know, year 10 and then sell another one year 11, another one year 12? Kind of looking at what those could appreciate to and instead of building up cash flow for a month, can you wait another five years till you're 40 and then start selling them off and taking the equity from that, maybe putting it into more private money lending. And then because that's the one thing that I've learned over the years is that I've accumulated, accumulated, accumulated. But then as time went on 10 years, it's like, wow, there's a ton of equity built up into these properties that if I sell one every once in a while, that's way more cash flow than I would ever get just from buying one single family property or two single family properties in that year generating. So think about what is really important to you as far as how much you want to be hands on, how much you want to be involved in, how much you Want to invest into real estate right now, as far as, you know, the money, the capital, but also as to your time and energy too.

[Tony J. Robinson]

And you bring up a really good point, Ashley too, about maybe switching the strategy. They didn't state in their question, you know, if these are just traditional long term rentals, but that's the assumption here. And I think, you know, you made the call of like, hey, can you switch to another strategy because you already own seven houses, you know, you did a lot of work to go out there and build this portfolio. So can you get more out of what you already have? So co living one option, can you do midterm rentals? Can you do long term rentals, you know, sober living facilities? We've interviewed people that do that. There's other maybe uses for the properties that you have that might allow you to get a better return for whatever down payment you're going to put on this multifamily property. Could you use that to build an ADU on your seven properties and maybe get more revenue that way? So I think exploring all of the other revenue potential, like generating activities with your existing portfolio, I might go down that path first, even before exploring multifamily. But I guess we still haven't necessarily fully answered the question like should they or should they not go after multifamily? I, I think a lot of it really does come down to. And as you hit on this a little bit as well, it's like, what is the actual goal here and what are the resources? Like if you go out and buy your first multi family, so you go out and buy, you buy a six unit apartment complex, are you going to be in the same situation as you are with your seven single family homes where they're barely breaking even or maybe a little bit of cash flow, but now you're just doing it, you know, double the size. Right. So if you can maybe find that in the multifamily asset class that there are better opportunities so you can actually start making reasonable progress towards your goal of 40 or $50,000 per month then. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like just because you started in single family doesn't mean you need to stay there. But I think changing for the sake of changing, let's say you just get yourself into more work and not a whole heck of a lot of progress to show for it.

[Ashley Kerr]

Rookies, we want to thank you so much for being here and listening to the podcast. We want to hit 100,000 subscribers and we need your help. If you aren't already, please head over to our YouTube channel YouTube.comealestate rookie and subscribe to our channel. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back for more after this.

[Unknown]

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[Tony J. Robinson]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Ashley Kerr]

All right, let's jump back in. So for our last question today we have. Hi all. I've been house hacking a duplex since 2021 and due to some life changes, we will be relocating out of state. Since I only own one property, a duplex, I've been the property manager. I use rent ready software to manage my tenants, so everything is done electronically. I'll specifically need help showing the property and getting keys to tenants. I've considered a property management company, but the cost just doesn't seem worth it. Although it would be convenient. I've also considered just flying back to town and showing it myself as it would be roughly the same cost to do that versus a property management company. But that's obviously a very inconvenient option. Has anyone had any experience with this and happen to know a better way to show the apartment and get keys to tenants when you're out of state or if you're not going to do it yourself? Is a property management company the only way in my opinion, using a real estate agent offer to pay them a flat rate. Sometimes people pay one month's rent for my rentals. I pay the real estate agent $500 per rental. So it's just a flat rate no matter what the unit is or what the rental price is. And this is the real estate agent's responsibility is to actually list the apartment. So go and take the photos of the apartment, list it for rent and then do all the showings, coordinate when they're available directly with the, you know, potential applicants and then send them the application, review the application. And that's kind of where I step into is doing the screening process once an application has been submitted and then I do the final approval. Then after that the move in date is set and the agent schedules that as to when she's going to actually meet them to hand them the keys to do the move in inspection. And then the inspection is sent to me and I set up on the back end there. Well actually my VA does, they're on the back end, sets up all of their, you know, like online portal and things like that too. In my opinion that would be kind of the best way is to find a real estate agent that you trust and use them to actually show but make sure you are a part of the screening and vetting process so that you do have some quality control over who is actually being the person renting your unit. And it's not just an agent who is willing to rent to anybody to get their paycheck. So thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Real Estate Rookie. Reply if you have a question, please head over to the BiggerPockets forums and become involved in the Bigger Pockets community. You can also join the Real Estate Rookie Facebook group. I'm Ashley and he's Tony. Thank you guys for joining us and we'll see you next time.