← Real Estate Rookie
Loading summary
Transcript58 lines
- [00:00]
Ashley Kerr
Whether you're planning a flip, a burr, an Airbnb, or even a midterm rental, there's one thing that can make or break how much money your property makes, and that is design.
- [00:11]
Tony J. Robinson
And look, the truth is, most of us absolutely suck at designing properties. So today we're bringing on an expert. Brianna Amigo, owner of Brianna Michelle Interiors, my personal designer and friend. I've worked with her on flips, on Airbnb, even our hotel. And today, she's breaking down everything a Ricky needs to know about designing profitable properties and 2025.
- [00:36]
Ashley Kerr
This is the Real Estate Rookie Podcast, and I'm Ashley Kerr.
- [00:39]
Tony J. Robinson
And I'm Tony J. Robinson. And let's give a big, warm welcome to Bri. Bri, thank you for joining us on the rookie podcast today.
- [00:45]
Brianna Amigo
Thank you so much for having me, you guys. I'm so excited.
- [00:47]
Ashley Kerr
Bri, what does design mean to you when. Why is it important for rookie investors?
- [00:54]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, I mean, I think it's incredibly important. I'm so glad we're talking about it today. But design, the way I look at it is a little bit differently, I think, than most. It's beyond the aesthetics, in my opinion. So, of course, it's about curating a beautiful space and, of course, creating that experience and that optimal guest experience. But it's also blending in this aspect of strategy and having a strategy to ensure that you are evoking an emotion with your ideal guest or your ideal buyer and that you are really trying to resonate with them and create that optimal experience. But in addition to that, I think it's really the most powerful tool to increase perceived value on a property, to ensure that you stand out amongst your competition and to drive increased revenue. So I think it's a lot of things, but that's kind of how I define design.
- [01:51]
Ashley Kerr
Before we get into the episode anymore, I want to, like, point out this fact, basically, is that, you know, we get so caught up talking about the numbers, we talk about estimating rehab costs, we talk about budgeting for our materials, finding good contractors, having a good timeline, that these are all things that will make a successful flip. And I don't think we actually talk about the design and how much the design can actually move the needle and either your. Your daily rate or, you know, how well your flip sells. So I think before we go on further, I want everyone to really think about their business right now and what they've been learning and focusing on. And I bottle that. A lot of it hasn't been the design aspect. Yeah, maybe scrolling prints or pinterest or scrolling Instagram saying like, oh, that looks really cool in that property, blah, blah, blah, but not being intentional about actually providing that value, that can move the needle profit wise and in so many ways.
- [02:49]
Tony J. Robinson
And like we said, I mean like design impacts every part of real estate investing, right? Like if you're, if you're renovating a property, your tile selection, your floor choice, the flow of the property, the fixtures you choose, all of those impacts your ability to sell that property. At the end, if you're doing a burr, all of those impact your ability to get the appraised value you're hoping for. At the end, if you're doing short term and midterm rentals, right, your ability to charge the nightly rates you want to charge. So yeah, I think it's an afterthought for a lot of investors. To your point, Ash, they spend a lot of time choosing their market, they spend a lot of time analyzing their deals, they spend a lot of time negotiating and then they just kind of tack on design or maybe they don't even tack it on at all and then try and DIY it, which we'll talk about in a bit here. Maybe why that's, that's not the best thing for Ricky to do is to try and try and DIY their design. And I, I guess on that note, Bri, let me ask, like what a lot of people try and DIY this, what's maybe the single worst design choice you see rookies still making in 2025 and how much do you really think it costs them when they try and sell their flip refinance or bird or try and get those Airbnb bookings?
- [03:48]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of alluded to that with design as an afterthought. So we, we really want to encourage every investor, do your research, understand your comparables, what's going on in your market and that can, you know, relate to, you know, the different options when it comes to real estate. So from a short term rental perspective, you want to look at your competition, who's the top performing properties and really understand why what increased value did they add to that property that is helping them drive increased revenue and higher occupancy than the rest of their competition. So I see time and time again that when looking at new deals, the deal analysis for some reason is not capturing everything that they need to focus on when it comes comes to the investment. Of course it's about the acquisition and getting the property. But have you looked at the cost of designing the property? Have you Looked at a furnishing budget. Have you looked at the added amenities that you need to add to the property and what renovations and potential structural changes you're going to need to make to the property to add those amenities to the property? So including everything in your analysis when you're looking at your numbers is really key to ensuring that this is not an afterthought. It's really thought through at the very onset of when looking at the deal.
- [05:09]
Tony J. Robinson
I'm so glad that you, you brought that up because like I said, I think it is an afterthought for a lot of people and they invest so much money into the acquisition, they forget about having enough budget left over to actually execute in a way that's going to get them to the profit level that they're looking for before. We keep going though, because I mean, you're also an investor. So maybe just give us a snapshot. I know you have an investment yourself, but how many deals have you invested in yourself? But then even more importantly, how many design projects have you been involved or involved with through Brianna Michelle Interiors?
- [05:38]
Brianna Amigo
So personally, we have one short term rental and four long term rentals and currently three active flips and then one flip that we are closing on this week. So excited.
- [05:49]
Tony J. Robinson
Congratulations.
- [05:50]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so we're busy and I think it's great that, you know, we were talking about this because it does translate to every facet of our own personal businesses. Right. And so we just think about it in a little bit of a different lens, but from a short term rental perspective. And Brandon Michelle Interiors, We've designed over 200 properties over the last few years. So it's pretty remarkable what we've done from that perspective. And we've been able to design all across the US in so many different markets, from really saturated markets to emerging markets. And yeah, that's kind of what our portfolio looks like.
- [06:27]
Ashley Kerr
So Bri, when you're deciding to actually design a property, what is like that just right area for a project where you're not spending too much on design, but also you're not spending too little. What's the best way that a rookie could actually like figure out their revenue target and how much they should be spending on a property?
- [06:47]
Brianna Amigo
I mean, speaking from a short term rental perspective, we rely on air DNA all the time when it comes to analyzing the market and the competition. And so we can see what the top comparables are achieving and the upside that's to be made when you invest in specific amenities. So you can kind of dial in if you add this, if you add this design element, this is what the increased revenue potentially could be. So that's really our our first starting point is looking at the data and the numbers to define what added design elements and amenities you can add to a property that can really move the needle. And when you look at spending too much or too little, you just have to know what the market is calling for. So if you can see what the average ADR and the average revenue is, that will kind of help you define how much of a furnishing budget or a design budget you should allocate towards the project because you want to make sure you're not overspending where you just aren't going to make that back in revenue when it comes to ADR and revenue. So you know, just it's a fine line of balancing between the opportunity versus the investment and the cost.
- [07:58]
Advertisement Speaker 1
Rookie listeners, are you on the sidelines right now planning your first deal but not pulling the trigger? I get it. Making the leap into investing is hard at the best of times and right now it's paralyzing. Invest in real estate in this economy, what if you make the wrong deal? And how do you know who to trust? If you're ready to get unstuck and start building wealth through real estate, join us at BPCON this October. You'll leave with more clarity on your strategy, insider knowledge to help you make the right move and relationships with people you can trust. It's time to get unstuck at bpcon. Get your tickets before they sell out@biggerpockets.com rookieconference that's biggerpockets.com rookie conference. You became a real estate investor to reach financial freedom, not become a 24.7emergency hotline for your weekend guests who can't figure out how to use the coffee maker or lock the front door. If you're burnt out on short term rentals and want to earn more than long term rentals, Furnished Finder is your solution. Furnished Finder connects you with professionals looking for furnished stays of 30 days or more. Think business travelers, relocating families, traveling medical professionals, home insurance claims, people who see your property as a place to restart, not throw a party. No endless turnovers, no stress over seasonal vacancies, no booking fees or commissions for just $179 per year. Access reliable tenants, generate consistent rental income and keep all of it. Head to furnishedfinder.com with code BP15 for $15 off your first listing.
- [09:13]
Advertisement Speaker 2
There's something surprising a lot of investors don't realize landlords actually file more insurance claims than homeowners. But most of the big traditional insurance companies, they're just not set up to handle those claims quickly or easily. That's why so many real estate investors are switching to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords. So whether you got a single family rental, need a builder's risk policy for a brrrr or focusing on growing your portfolio, you get fast quotes, flexible coverage and protection for property damage, liability and loss of rental income. It's a good idea to review your rates and coverages every year on your rentals. So go get a quote in minutes@biggerpockets.com landlord insurance today steadily Landlord insurance for the modern investor.
- [09:55]
Ashley Kerr
Today's show is sponsored by Baselane. They say real estate investing is passive, but let's get real. Chasing rents, drowning in receipts and getting buried in spreadsheets feels anything but passive. If you're tired of losing valuable hours on financial busy work, I've found a solution that will transform your business. It's Baselane, a trusted BP Pro partner. Baselane is an all in one platform that can help you automate the day to day. It automates your rent collection and uses AI powered bookkeeping to auto tag transactions for instant cash flow, visibility and reporting. Plus they have tons of other features like recurring payments, multi user access and free wires to save you more time and money. Spend less managing your money and more time growing your portfolio. Ready to automate the busy work and get back to investing. Baseline is giving BiggerPockets listeners an exclusive $100 bonus or when you sign up at Baseline.com/BiggerPockets. All right, we're back with Bri. We've shared the big picture on design, but let's start to actually focus on the tactical side of it. So let's say we're starting with a blank property. What is the very first step someone should take to create their vision?
- [11:10]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, so I think drilling down to who are you trying to target as far as your ideal guest or buyer, you know who and you know, try to create a Persona around that buyer or guest. Understand what their needs and wants, our desires, what are they looking for when traveling or what are they looking for in their next home and really try to curate a vision and design that speaks and resonates with with those likes and dislikes. So looking at the data, looking at the research, taking in all the things that you need on the specs of the home, how big is the property? Is there potential when in regards to renovations, are there a lot of renovations that are potentially needed? Is it Turnkey, Was it recently flipped and was it done right? Is there high repair costs involved? So just really taking into account the structure of the home, the age of the home, and the current condition as well. When it comes to design, I, I try to not go into a space and say, well, that look would look really nice over here if we did this over here. I like to kind of intake everything first and then kind of take a step back, do my research, understand the market, look into the Personas that I'm trying to target, and then formulate a vision from there. So starting with the research component is really important.
- [12:27]
Tony J. Robinson
So Bri, after you do your, your initial research, maybe it might even be helpful to go through like the 30,000 foot overview of the design process. So start with the research. What's like the, the next step that you take on after that?
- [12:40]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, I mean, I think once you intake the research, it's really about putting pen to paper, that vision. So I think it's really important for anyone to really create like a mood board just to start, just to help formulate those ideas with actual inspirational images of style and colors and patterns and usage of the design styles that you're looking to, to achieve and implement. And then also a color palette and a vision statement writing down, what is your vision? What are you trying to achieve in this space? What story are you trying to tell? And putting that on paper. And so starting with an initial mood board, and usually for us, we're doing that for our clients and we're formulating that vision and we share that with them as a way of just getting their buy in. Are you excited about this direction? Are you aligned with it? And if they are, then that's when that kind of design process will start. And we'll curate that and actually put that into implementation. So we'll go through each space and we'll curate. If there's renovations involved, we'll let them know. These are all of the finishes and materials that you're adding to the space. This is what we want you to do as far as orientation of install. So making sure that the tile is installed in this orientation with this color grout, like down to the very little nitty gritty details. So that when they are implementing that design with their contractor, it's very straightforward what the vision is and how to implement that. And then going beyond finishes and materials, really thinking about the furnishings and having all of your furniture pieces curated and sourced. What are all the styling elements? Textiles, rugs, throw pillows, art, accent walls, window treatments, lighting, layered lighting, So I think it's just really putting that all kind of together and providing a visual for our clients to see, okay, this is what that room and space will look like with all of those pieces working together and then kind of showing them. These are all of the elements that you essentially would be able to source and find. And we'll provide them a full procurement list as well in addition to that. And then when it goes into, you know, procurement and installation, really giving them all of the tools to easily implement that design. So space plans of exactly placement of all of the furniture pieces and where to hang everything, how to hang everything, installation instructions to go along with that.
- [15:05]
Tony J. Robinson
Even just hearing you say this, it just sounds like a lot, you know, and I think, I think that's why rookies, you know, especially if you're new to this, I think there's so many pieces that go into good design, especially if you, if you talk about renovation and furnishing, like a short term midterm rental. But even if you're just, you know, renovating a flip or a burr, there's so many elements that go into it that a lot of rookies don't even think about. Like you said the grout, you know, and I remember the first rehab that we did, the contractor asks, well, what grout color do you want? We're like, I don't know, like you, like, isn't that something that you type of grout? Right. There's so many elements that you don't know as a rookie. And I think that's why I lean on someone who has the right experience. A first go around can be super helpful. I think if we just, you know, because it sounds like a lot of steps, start to finish. How much time do you think Ricky should, I guess maybe allocate for the design element? Let's just focus on just a general rehab because there are lead times for things to get delivered. Like if we're focused on rehabbing a property, say someone hires a professional designer, you know, they work with Brian Michelle from the day that they first meet you until like, you know, materials delivered at the site. What's like a typical lead time? Because I think a lot of people are unaware of what that is. They don't work that into their timelines for the rehab. So what is, what is a good timeline for that?
- [16:25]
Brianna Amigo
I mean, I think on average, you know, allocating four to six weeks is probably a good, healthy timeline to work with. And it really could vary, right, depending on your scope of work, how much of a rehab and renovations involved. But if you just allocate a week of time to formulate that design, that procurement list, you order all of those elements and then you know, allocate maybe an additional week or two for those things to arrive on time. You're already at about three weeks from there. And then during that time maybe your contractor is working on gutting the property and demoing the areas that need to be renovated. And so that gives them time to do that and then implementing that just really depends on their timeline of what exactly was is within the scope. But I would say four to six weeks is really a good guesstimate of what I would suggest allocating when it comes to a rehab.
- [17:19]
Tony J. Robinson
So Bri, we're talking a lot about the design process and we spoke about comparables and how those are important to help you make your decision on design. But there's also moments where like you want to be bold, right? And you want to try and maybe stand out. But when does a, you know, quote unquote bold design choice turn from something that like wows maybe potential guests or buyers to something that's like, you know, why did they do that? Like, what's your rule of thumb for walking that line?
- [17:46]
Ashley Kerr
Or like really limit your buyer pool as to like this may only appeal to like 10% of the people. They'll absolutely love it those that 10%, but that limits the amount of people that would actually purchase the property.
- [17:59]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, when it comes to short term rentals, I'll speak on that first, you know, really thinking about how are you going to formulate and create this listing and what are you going to highlight first, what are those spaces? And generally they're going to be your key amenity spaces, maybe the outdoors. Those are the areas that really need to be focused on when it comes to design. So I see it time and time again where sometimes investors might over engineer a little bit. They might be too focused on like let's, you know, let's break this wall down and reorient the kitchen and do a whole gut rehab in the bathrooms. And from my perspective, I'm like, I rather look at this from a opportunity to identify what are the low hanging fruit opportunities that we can tweak. We can do maybe a cosmetic upgrade and, and not a full rehab because one, it's going to increase your renovation costs, It'll increase your holding costs for sure. And a lot of the time that's where things get really held up in the process. It's permitting and et cetera. And so I Try to encourage that. Let's maybe not do all of those things, but let's focus on these things that I think are still low cost, high impact ideas and that will help get you up and running sooner, will still increase your value on your property. And so I like to really focus on that first. But from a rehab or reselling perspective, you don't want to create a design that is going to be off putting to to some. You do want a design that's palatable, that is something that anyone if your avatar is you want a family as you know, a brand new young family to move into this home. What are the things that you think will resonate with that avatar in mind? And generally if you're looking at the pink tile versus the sage green tile, maybe it's something more of like the earthy, clean, serene tones that to perform better versus the bold pink options that just may not make sense. Maybe they don't have a little girl in their family and that just doesn't make sense to have in one of the bathrooms. So just trying to make those decisions and try to balance them with. You want as many buyers, as many people exposure into this home. That's how you're going to sell it. And so you want them to be able to click through your listing, go to your open house and you don't want to be off putting at the time of you going live and your listing going live.
- [20:25]
Tony J. Robinson
And Bria, I couldn't agree more with that advice. But just one thing I want to call out is that I can tell that you're a professional just based on like the language that you use. Like, you know, like you said sage green. To me it's just green, you know, like. And to me there's no distinction. And I distinctly remember the first property that we walked together was one of the houses in Joshua Tree and there was this rug and you called it a jute rugged and I never heard that phrase in my life, you know, so like even just like not having the vocabulary as, as a rookie investor means you're probably limiting yourself on what options you put in front of you. But if you can differentiate sage green from, I don't know, what's another grain mint green or something like you know, you can, you can make better, you can make better choices, right?
- [21:06]
Ashley Kerr
Another thing that I've noticed too as we've gone along is like you've brought up a couple of times without us highlighting is the importance of design isn't just what rug you should put in the room, what lamp to pick what light fixture, what wall color, but it's so many more things. It's the landscaping, the design of the outdoor space. I remember I did a project, a new build for a dealership before, and like, just the exterior lighting was a whole design element in itself, where it all had to be laid out and what fixtures and things like that. So I think there's so much more to design than we initially think of. Just like, oh, what you know, is going to make this place, like, even the flow, the layout, things like that. But what are some tools and resources that a rookie investor can use to actually help them design the property?
- [21:56]
Brianna Amigo
I mean, I think rookie investors, of course, look at the market, do your research. I've talked about that. But when you're coming up with that vision, you just want inspiration. Pinterest is a great tool. You're looking at your comparables, looking at the MLS and seeing what's going on in the market from that perspective. But also Instagram, you know, looking at social media as a way of drawing inspiration, drawing inspiration from travel and just going through your personal travel travels and going into a restaurant or a local bar, and you're like, whoa, this is such a cool experience. It's such a vibe in here. Take pictures of that space, bring it back home with you, and really kind of see if that is a good fit for what you're trying to achieve. And then using tools, you know, what we personally use for project management to really collaborate and create like a very creative atmosphere for our clients is a tool for called Notion. And that's our project management system that we use and all of our clients use it just to be able to communicate with us and we share inspiration and mood boards and designs through there and then design tools. You, if, if you don't have the expertise for the sketchups or the cads, that's okay. You could use Canva, honestly, when you know, putting together designs and so encourage you to use those resources that are definitely user friendly and, you know, put those ideas pen to paper, layer in with Canva, you can layer images and see what, you can completely create a room with Canva. So definitely think that's like probably the optimal tool to use if you're just kind of getting started.
- [23:26]
Tony J. Robinson
Let's talk a little bit more, more tactically because, you know, obviously, you know, the big parts of a home are, you know, things that everyone focuses on. But what are maybe some of, the, call it like under $100 items that elevates maybe guest experience or that you've Seen just like makes a space look more, more luxury. Right. That people are maybe overlooking.
- [23:47]
Ashley Kerr
I'm thinking of the target fines when you first walk into targets like their dollar savings things. What are those types of things that we can incorporate?
- [23:55]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, from a short term rental perspective, we love this. We love the little things because we think they do really count and, and bring such an experience to the space. So little things could be branded elements and we are really keen on incorporating branded elements throughout our property. So if you have a branded welcome book or branded mugs in the kitchen, or branded cornhole set in the backyard, those are really low cost items that just really remind and resonate with, with your guests. A musical element is always something that we try to incorporate in every common space. So a vinyl record player, which you can't get any better than that. So having a vinyl record collection, there's so many cool like Bluetooth speakers now that you can incorporate into a space that have a vintage feel and have that like sense of nostalgia and, you know, simple things to book collections. When we have our spaces curated, we'll put really curated coffee table books on the table that really draw and tie back to the market that they've invested in, or cookbooks in the kitchen that tie back to the style or the colors or the local cuisine in the market. Just being super thoughtful, elevated coffee bars is really key for us as well. So making sure you have all the mechanisms to make a cup of coffee. So if that's a drip option, a pour over a French press, just making sure that you are providing everything that a guest would be looking for at their fingertips. And having some locally ground coffee options that are from the local market just shows that you as a host are being thoughtful and are supporting your local community, which I think is amazing. And then from a flip and renovation perspective, little things like hardware can go a long way in a flip that's kind of like they're small tweaks that you can add to a kitchen. So maybe if you're doing a colored cabinet, maybe opt out of the brushed nickel that everyone you see do and maybe do something brass or matte black that just really will help stand out. Lighting goes a long way in a flip. And so making sure that you have some statement pieces that feel like a little bit more intentional, less builder grade, sometimes that will creep up a little bit over 100, but it's worth the investment because it just helps curate a little bit more of a custom feel when you're walking into a home.
- [26:19]
Tony J. Robinson
All right, guys, don't go anywhere because after the break, Bree's going to share some DIY design traps that kill profits and the design that stopped her in her tracks as a designer. So we'll be right back after this.
- [26:30]
Advertisement Speaker 1
Long term rentals give you stability, but cash flow is disappearing. It's time to boost your returns without giving up peace of mind. Furnished Finder connects you with monthly tenants, traveling professionals, relocating families, remote workers, people who stay long, pay reliably and respect your space. You get more income and total control with no booking fees, just better returns for $179 a year, head to FurnishedFinder.com and use code BP15 to save $15 on your first listing.
- [26:57]
Advertisement Speaker 2
If you own a short term rental, here's something worth not all landlord insurance policies are built for your kind of property, but that's where Steadily comes in. Steadily offers insurance designed specifically for short term rentals. They cover things like property damage, liability, loss of rental income, and even unexpected issues like bed bugs. Steadily only works with real estate investors so they understand the details that make short term rentals unique. And they've built coverages specifically for short term rentals. One investor pro tip I always like to give out is to review your rates and coverages every single year. So go get a quote in minutes@biggerpockets.com landlordinsurance today steadily rental property insurance for the modern investor Starting your own business.
- [27:39]
Advertisement Speaker 1
Can be intimidating because of all the hats you suddenly have to wear. There's the marketing hat for emails and social posts, the web designer hat for your storefront, the copywriter hat, the logistics hat, and of course the hat hat just for tracking all the other hats. It's a lot, but the right tool to simplify it all. Total game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, including 10% of all U.S. e commerce from brands like Mattel and Gymshark to ones just starting out. Launch your store fast with beautiful templates that match your brand. Shopify's built in AI helps with content too, writing descriptions and headlines and even enhancing photos. Want to market like a pro? Create campaigns wherever your customers scroll. Best of all, Shopify is your expert partner, handling everything from inventory to shipping and returns. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big ideas into you. Get it. Sign up for your 1 month $1 per month trial period and start selling today at shopify.com bprookies go to shopify.com bprookie shopify.com bprookIe I used to Think.
- [28:40]
Advertisement Speaker 2
I could booby trap my house like some scene from Home Alone. But it turns out setting up swinging paint cans can be pretty messy. And so I personally turn to a much better solution. Simplisafe. I use it because it doesn't just react after something happens. It helps stop bad stuff before it even starts. And that's what makes it different and way easier than installing a zipline to my treehouse. Simplisafe's new active Guard outdoor protection uses smart cameras and live agents who watch over your property in real time. So if someone's creeping around, they can talk to them, shine lights on them, and they can even call the cops if needed. It's like having a professional bouncer for your house, minus the velvet rope. There are no contracts, no hidden fees, and setup is super simple. Plus, CNET just named it the best home security system of 2025. And I get why. It gives me real peace of mind every single night. Right now you can get 50% off your new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring and your first month at simplisafe.com pockets@simplisafe.com pockets, there's no safe like Simplisafe. Do you want to invest in cash flowing rentals but don't have the time to manage the properties? Is your local market too competitive or expensive to invest in? Rent to Retirement offers new construction turnkey investment properties that you can buy with as little as 5% down and rates as low as 3.99%. Their team handles everything from financing, management, insurance and more. So you can live where you want and invest in the markets that offer the best returns. Rent to Retirement has the best reputation in the industry with more five star reviews than any other company on the BiggerPockets website. To learn more, visit biggerpockets.com retirement or just text REI 233777 to start investing in the best markets today.
- [30:25]
Tony J. Robinson
All right, guys, we're back here with Bri. Now, Bri, what do you see? And we touched on this a bit already, but what do you see most rookies get wrong when they try and DIY their own design?
- [30:34]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, I think, you know, some common mistakes which I feel like we've hit on is just not understanding their market and their competition. But another that I think is really important to keep in mind is that these are not your personal homes, they're not your primary residence. It's not. None of this really should tie back to your personal preferences. You really have to look at these investment properties as, as a business and you have to understand what the marketability that you need to create, the experience that you need to create. And that may not align with your personal style. And so that needs to kind of. There needs to be some differentiation and separation there. So I do tend to see a lot of rookie investors get too hung up on, like, well, I wouldn't want this in my space, but that may be okay because your guest avatar or your buyer avatar may want that in their space. So you just have to really kind of separate yourself a little bit from the investment.
- [31:30]
Ashley Kerr
I can say from my own experience as a rookie designer is that one mistake I've made is thinking that, you know what, this will be fun. I would really enjoy to design, but not recognizing that I am not good at it. I. The last look I did, me and my kids literally stood in the Home Depot tile aisle for over an hour with me. Just what are you asking my kids? What do you guys think? Does this look good together? And them telling me no and us just going back and forth not being able to make a decision, and then finally me texting my contractor, do you think this will look okay? Does this work? So I would say that was a big rookie mistake of my own, is wanting to do something just because I think that I would enjoy it, that it would be fun, but not recognizing that I wasn't good at it. And then it did not become fun for me having to take forever just to pick out tile and actually delayed our project because I could not make a decision. I just went back and forth and, you know, procrastinated on making the decision and it like came down to the wire and the tile that I actually picked, it wouldn't even come in time. So then I had to change it all again because it wouldn't be there in time when they were ready to lay it. So huge lesson learned. I am not good at design and I definitely need some kind of assistance. And my, my contractor on that job was a great help with that and helping me, you know, pick out a lot of the finishes and tying it all together too. Okay, so let's, let's go back to listings and this could be even long term, short term midterm rentals or even, you know, properties that you flip that you're putting on there. What is like the last, let's do with the Airbnb first? Like, what's the last Airbnb listing that stopped your scroll? Like what set it out, made it different than anything else?
- [33:22]
Brianna Amigo
I think photography is so, so important when it comes to short Term rentals. So finding a photographer that could really capture the intimate moments and the intimate vignettes that you created within the design, lighting within that photography. And so when I look at listings, I see listings every day that have the same amenity stack. And that's kind of the name of the game right now. You all have to have the same amenities, but who can do it better? Who can do it where it's, you know, you're capturing a story throughout the design. You're speaking to me through the photos. I'm almost envisioning the experience with lifestyle photography with maybe models in the actual home partaking in some of the activities and experiences that you've put together in the design. And we just want to make sure that when we're looking at listings like that, that we're telling a story. We're evoking emotion. And through photography, I think that's a great way to stand out. Amongst your competition is who's that photographer that you're going to use to position your listing a little bit differently and taking photos during all times of day. So having some day shots, some night shots, some shots where the sun is coming down and the twinkle lights and the string lights are up, the fire pit is going, making sure the property is fully staged. Those are the properties that really stand out to me because they've taken the extra step to really market to position that design in the most optimal way.
- [34:53]
Ashley Kerr
Our photographer actually recommended to come back to our property to take another set of photos because we're in a four seasons market. So we now have, you know, we don't have all the seasons yet, but like, we got fall photos with the pretty cut, changing colors of the leaves all around it. And then we had winter photos where it looks so cozy, you know, so that was like a big thing too, is being able to capture the property in all seasons and having those photos available.
- [35:21]
Tony J. Robinson
Bri, let's Fast forward to 2035. What are the design shifts or the trends you're seeing that rookie investors should start preparing for today?
- [35:33]
Ashley Kerr
Ten years from now, you're expecting make.
- [35:37]
Tony J. Robinson
It maybe make it five?
- [35:38]
Brianna Amigo
I had no idea. I'm a fortune teller here. No, but I think we're already seeing the shifts right in the market even as we speak. So I think the investors that have approached this with kind of throwing it together diying are already struggling. And we'll probably see a lot of those properties be offloaded over the next five years just because they're not going to be able to maintain them. They're losing money at the end of the day. So the ones that are potentially not doing so well are going to be offloaded. And the ones that are going to continue doing well are the ones that have really invested in the properties from a design perspective, a guest experience perspective, amenities, and they've really treated this as an investment. So they're going to continue to add to the property, continue to move the needle a little bit as the competition shifts in the market and those will continue to do well. But design has just become incredibly important. So it's almost going to be table stakes at this point, I think especially in five years from now. I can't really imagine a lot of investors probably wanting to DIY their design because there's going to be too much writing on it. And so we'll see more professionally designed properties, more amenity, stacked properties. And so the, the main thing is how are you going to do it differently and create longevity behind your design so that you're not having to tweak it and change it every three to five years? Because we don't want to position any of our clients to have to do that. So that's where I really see the market going. And I see a lot of more investors realizing that instead of maybe having such a diversified portfolio with so many different size properties, they're maybe investing in that one big property and putting all of their efforts behind it. And so we're seeing a lot more of our clients come to us with five six bedroom homes that have all of the amenities from a game room to a theater to a pickleball court. And they're really, really trying to curate this like, resort, like one of a kind experience. And the way they're doing that is that they're targeting multi generational avatars with families, adult groups with 14 to 16 plus guests. And you know, that's something that you're, you're able to really achieve really high increased ADR and revenue because of the amount of people you're essentially able to sleep. So I'm seeing a lot more of that, that as well over the, the next five years come up.
- [38:01]
Tony J. Robinson
Yeah. And Bri, you even speak to like a shift that we're trying to make in our portfolio is consolidating down to a fewer, more premium properties as opposed to a lot of properties that are like, you know, middle of the road because, you know, less, less management overhead, more revenue per property. Right. So I think there's something to be said there, but I think the million dollar question, because I feel like this was the, the design trend that was all the rage, the white house with the black trim, the black windows, is that still, is that still, is that still the move for rookies to make or is that, you know, is that in the rear view mirror from a design perspective?
- [38:33]
Brianna Amigo
I think there's always a time, a time and place to do that. It just depends on the home and the architecture of the home, if that makes sense to do. But I think what you're starting to see more is that we're almost kind of going a step back in time a little bit. Like the aspect of like new versus old nostalgia is really coming into play. So a lot of like older vintage elements being added to properties and having moodier spaces, darker tone, woods, a lot of layers and curves in the furniture. Like that is really coming up a lot in design trends right now. And so I think you'll continue to see some of those monochromatic looks, but I think what you're going to more so see is just the layering of colors, moody moodiness that has been kind of missing seen from the market before. So yeah, yeah.
- [39:23]
Ashley Kerr
Like my Instagram feed is filled with where somebody's painting the walls and the trim the same color or they're painting the trim like a blue or a green and then wallpaper. And I like, I like this design and I feel like the design is shifting to this and I'm thinking of doing this in my live and flip in some of the rooms right now. But I also don't know is this actually a design or is just my algorithm focused on this type of property? So it's only showing me this type of design?
- [39:56]
Brianna Amigo
I guess it depends on the type of investment property. So I think the color drenching theme and trend that you are seeing through your feed is something that you will see a lot in short term rentals right now. So we are color drenching rooms, we are painting ceilings, we are painting baseboards and trim all the same color. It's a360 kind of immersive experience when you walk into a room. But when it comes to a flip, that might be a little bit too much of a bold option. And so what I would encourage is like maybe you do like a little bit of a contrasting trim and a different color door that is still in a kind of earthy neutral palette. So we even in our home today that we just moved into our new house, we did that here because I feel like it's, it's still like a little bit of an elevated design choice. It feels Custom, but at the same time it's not like off putting and it's not something I'd get tired of in the next 10 to 20 years. So you have to kind of put yourself in, in the, in the shoes of your buyer too. If you lived here, would you want to see a blue color drenched room for the rest of your life? Maybe not. So I would maybe just do a few pops here and there and maybe like do a colored cabinet somewhere, colored vanity, something that, that's kind of like low risk but still high impact. And it isn't a lot to change for that future buyer if they weren't keen on it.
- [41:16]
Ashley Kerr
Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much. Like even one thing you had said earlier was like, you know, the girl tiles stuck with that forever. Like I have all boys, so it would probably be all blue trim, you know, or all green or whatever. So like buyer coming in with all girls, they would have to completely, well, in some cases have to completely paint all that to match whatever color the girl wanted or whatever. So yeah, great point there. My last question here before we kind of wrap up is how does the pricing and the hiring work of a designer? Is it a flat rate? Is it hourly? Is it based on the project? Is it based on the cost? And I, I guess one question I have too is like when you're hiring the designer, do you give them the budget on up front and how do you even decide what your budget is going to be for design?
- [42:07]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah, I mean that there's a wide range of how designers, you know, essentially charge for their services. So that, that's going to vary quite a bit. Especially with the type of designer, you know, residential, there's usually, yes, a percentage on top of the cost of all the materials and furnishing elements that is added to the overall a fee structure. But for us, and I can speak for us, is we, we just, what we like to do is full transparency to the investor. We want them to go into this deal knowing this is the cost to furnish the property. This is what it would be to invest in our design services all up front so that they know what they're getting themselves into and they're allocating enough budget to do so. So we do a flat rate and that's based off of scope of work, size of the property, square footage, and we come up with a custom quote that that makes sense. And we personally, with as far as procurement, we use a third party vendor that supports our clients with all of the procurement and so we don't add any additional commission or percentage on top of the items. We, you know, essentially the only way you're kind of paying for the design services is through our fee.
- [43:16]
Ashley Kerr
Well, Bree, thank you so much for joining us today on Real Estate Rookie. Where can people find out more information about you and see see some of the projects that you've done?
- [43:26]
Brianna Amigo
Absolutely. Well. Follow us on Instagram. Brianna Michelle Interiors is our Instagram handle. And Briann Michelle Interiors.com is where you can reach out and set up a consultation call with me. I personally take those calls. So you'll be able to jump on a call free consultation with me and we'll talk about your project, what your goals are. And we do everything. You know, we design primarily short term rentals, but we've helped Tony with flips and we were flippers ourselves. So renovations, rehabs, primary residences. We've done commercial projects. So we have, you know, a wide variety when it comes to our expertise. But our, our bread and butter is short term rentals.
- [44:03]
Ashley Kerr
And look at the great advice that Bri already gave me about color drenching too. And who knew it was even called that?
- [44:10]
Brianna Amigo
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Ashley Kerr
I'm Ashley and he's Tony. Thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of Real Estate Rookie.