Brisbane, Australia Real Estate - with Dan Lee

Summary

Real Estate Without Borders: Brisbane, Australia Real Estate with Dan Lee

Episode Release Date: March 22, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Real Estate Without Borders, host Dave Hutch is joined by Dan Lee, an experienced real estate professional from Brisbane, Australia. Broadcasting live amidst a cyclone (Australia’s equivalent of a hurricane), Dan provides unique insights into Brisbane’s real estate landscape, contrasting it with other global markets. This detailed summary explores their comprehensive discussion, highlighting key points, strategies, and market dynamics in Brisbane.

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1. Dan Lee’s Background and Current Situation

Dan Lee introduces himself as a seasoned real estate agent with 17 years of experience. He began his career as a junior associate, progressing to lead his own team before founding PLUM Property in Brisbane.

• Dan Lee [00:38]: “I’ve been in real estate for about 17 years. I started as a junior associate for a high-performing agent... eventually, I left that business and started my own real estate company called Plum Property in Brisbane, Australia.”

At the time of the recording, Brisbane is facing an imminent cyclone, causing the city to shut down in preparation for the severe weather.

• Dan Lee [01:26]: “Our whole city is shut down today. It’s like COVID all over again. Total panic stations, no toilet paper, supermarkets cleaned out...”

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2. Overview of Brisbane’s Real Estate Market

Dan explains that Brisbane is currently the most sought-after city in Australia, boasting a tropical climate and a reputation for safety and livability.

• Dan Lee [03:21]: “We are hosting the Olympics too, and it’s kind of put Brisbane on the map worldwide... Brisbane is just a beautiful place to live. It’s a great place to raise a family. It’s very safe.”

He contrasts Brisbane’s rarity of cyclones with other natural disasters common in Australia, such as floods and heavy rains.

• Dan Lee [02:04]: “We do have cyclones, but they’re very rare. The last cyclone to hit Brisbane was in 1958.”

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3. Impact of COVID-19 on Brisbane

The pandemic significantly influenced Brisbane’s real estate market, making it a refuge compared to other Australian cities like Melbourne, which suffered from strict lockdowns.

• Dan Lee [04:00]: “Since COVID, Brisbane has become the city to move to... It’s just really become the hottest city in Australia.”

Unlike other cities that experienced downturns post-pandemic, Brisbane maintained its market strength.

• Dan Lee [05:24]: “We kind of just went way up and then sort of just sat at the same price. We haven’t really come back much... Sydney and Melbourne have experienced much bigger downturns.”

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4. Property Pricing and Market Trends

Brisbane’s median house price has surpassed Melbourne’s for the first time in history, signaling a robust market.

• Dan Lee [07:13]: “Brisbane’s caught up to Melbourne now and so we actually have a higher median sale price compared to Melbourne, which is crazy because it’s never been in the whole history of ever.”

He estimates the median house price at approximately 1.1 million Australian dollars (~$750,000 USD).

• Dan Lee [07:39]: “It sits at about 1.1 million Australian dollars, which, with the American exchange rate, is about seven.”

For condos, new units average around 850,000 to 900,000 AUD, while established units range from 700,000 to 750,000 AUD.

• Dan Lee [07:53]: “A standard two-bedroom, two-bathroom unit would sit around brand new at about 850,000 to 900,000 AUD, and secondhand in good condition might be 700,000 to 750,000 AUD.”

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5. Sales Strategies: Auctions vs. Offers

A significant portion of the discussion centers on sales strategies, particularly the prevalence and effectiveness of auctions in Australia compared to private treaty (offer-based) sales.

• Dave Hutch [08:30]: “What do we call it? Resale used house.”

• Dan Lee [09:29]: “Auctioning properties is a long-standing strategy here, prevalent in major cities like Sydney and Melbourne. It’s not the majority method everywhere, but in key urban areas, it’s embedded into the culture.”

Dan elaborates on how auctions drive higher sale prices due to their transparent and competitive nature.

• Dan Lee [14:14]: “That’s why it can be super successful when you have two or more bidders that really want it and are willing to pay a great price for it.”

Notable Quote:

• Dan Lee [11:33]: “We’re not allowed to disclose another party’s offer. It’s actually illegal under Queensland law to do so.”

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6. Role of Buyer’s Agents in Australia

The episode delves into the distinction between seller’s agents and buyer’s agents in the Australian market.

• Dan Lee [16:19]: “Buyer’s agents are used usually for people that are really busy... They often get early entry to properties.”

Dan points out that unlike North America, where buyer’s agents are common, Australia’s market is predominantly driven by seller’s agents, with buyer’s agents constituting about 5% of the industry.

• Dan Lee [18:42]: “Most transactions are not done with the buyer’s agent. We really all just work for the seller.”

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7. Real Estate Practices and Agent Dynamics

The discussion highlights the competitive nature among Australian realtors, contrasting it with the collaborative environment in North America.

• Dan Lee [25:30]: “It’s very infrequent that we collaborate with other agents because we’re all just out there competing to get the listings.”

Dan notes a general negative perception among agents towards each other, lacking the camaraderie often seen in other markets.

• Dan Lee [25:45]: “Agents in Australia generally don’t like each other. They see other agents as competition rather than collaborators.”

Notable Quote:

• Dan Lee [25:45]: “Most agents have this like, puffed up chest. They see another agent, they’re like, look at that douchebag.”

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8. Foreign Investment and Regulations

Foreign investment plays a crucial role in Brisbane’s real estate market. However, regulations have tightened, reflecting global trends towards nationalism and restricting foreign capital flows.

• Dave Hutch [30:06]: “Canada has banned foreign investment... What would be the biggest foreign investors in Australia?”

Dan responds by outlining the primary sources of foreign investment, emphasizing proximity to China but also addressing regulatory measures to control capital inflows.

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9. Rental Market and Investment Trends

The rental market in Brisbane remains strong, with prices on the rise but stabilizing compared to the volatile first-time buyer market.

• Daniel [28:00]: “Are there a ton of investors? Who is the main purchaser of properties right now?”

Dan explains that the primary purchasers are individuals looking to reside rather than investors seeking quick returns, aligning with trends observed in markets like Toronto.

• Dan Lee [29:13]: “Rental prices have been on the rise for a couple of years now, similar to conversations we have in Toronto.”

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10. Marketing and Staging Costs

The conversation touches on the financial responsibilities in property sales, particularly who bears the costs of staging and marketing.

• Dan Lee [23:54]: “Sellers pay for staging and marketing. Our fees are separate, averaging around 2.5% plus tax, with marketing costs between $3,000 and $6,000 AUD.”

Dan emphasizes that these costs are typically absorbed by the seller upfront, mitigating financial risks for the agency.

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11. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode wraps up with Dan Lee’s appreciation for the opportunity to share insights and his active engagement with the audience through social media.

• Daniel [32:42]: “We appreciate you so much, honestly... If you’re not following Dan on Instagram, you’re missing out.”

Key Takeaways:

• Market Resilience: Brisbane’s real estate market remains strong post-COVID, outperforming cities like Melbourne in median house prices.

• Sales Strategies: Auctions are a prevalent and effective strategy in Brisbane’s major cities, fostering competitive bidding and higher sale prices.

• Agent Dynamics: The Australian real estate market is highly competitive with less collaboration among agents compared to North America.

• Foreign Investment: While significant, foreign investment is now more regulated, reflecting global shifts towards restricting capital flows.

• Rental Market: The rental sector is robust, with rising prices and stable investment trends.

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For more insights and updates from Dan Lee, follow him on Instagram as mentioned in the show notes.

Transcript

[Dave Hutch]

Welcome back to Real Estate Without Borders. Today I am joined here by Dave Hutch as well as a probably a cooler Daniel. He's from the land down under. Currently actually broadcasting live from the middle of a cyclone which I recently learned was goes the opposite direction of a hurricane. Today we're going to talk to Dan Lee from Australia to get an understanding for what is going on in Australia's real estate market. What makes Australia's real estate market different than other real estate markets in the world? Because you guys do stuff pretty crazy down there. So Dan, give us a quick intro. Who are you, what do you do and what do you want to tell us about what's going on down there?

[Dan Lee]

Thanks Dan and Dave. Yeah, I have a real estate business myself. So I've been in real estate for about 17 years. I started as a junior associate for a high performing agent. Then I was worked at the same company for about 10 years as a know an agent, built up a team. Eventually I left that business and started my own real estate company called Plum Property which is in Brisbane, Australia where yes we have a cyclone coming which in America is known as a hurricane. Our whole city is shut down today. So we have about eight hours before this thing totally hits. And every, it's, it's like Covid all over again. Total panic stations, no toilet paper, supermarkets cleaned out, everyone fighting for themselves, panicking, pushing the women and children aside.

[Dave Hutch]

How often does that happen though? Like it's not like Florida, right? Is it like a problem in your real estate market? Like is it that common or.

[Dan Lee]

No, it's, it's a rare event. The last, the last cyclone to hit Brisbane was 1958. So this is very rare.

[Dave Hutch]

19 is not like every year where people are still wondering why people live there. Right? Like Florida and whatever.

[Daniel]

You guys got enough stuff?

[Dan Lee]

No, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful city. It's actually the most sought after city in Australia right now. We do cop because it's a tropical climate. We do cop, you know, heavy rain periods and we have had two major floods in the last 15 years which is, you know if you live in a flooded.

[Dave Hutch]

Toronto gets one every year.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, right. Yeah. Well everyone who's in a flooded property like rip level where floods happen, they're all in panic stations right now.

[Daniel]

I feel like Australia's got, you guys got enough stuff to worry about with all the snakes and spiders and sharks like you can't have too man.

[Dan Lee]

Like we'll take it all the snakes.

[Dave Hutch]

That'S why they're so tough.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, it must be. Nah, snakes and spiders and all that. Yeah, we have them, but they're just, you know, they're not. They're not just like in your house. You gotta go looking for them.

[Daniel]

I'm in Mexico, so we get our fair share of stuff too, so.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure it's more dangerous there.

[Daniel]

Probably.

[Dan Lee]

Probably like walking down the. Walking down the street at night's more dangerous. So back to your question. What was the original question? I went off topic a bit with cyclones.

[Dave Hutch]

No. Yeah, you did. Well, on, on. Who are you and what do you do? What's going on in Australia? Tell me about. Tell me about your real estate market. You know, if. If I'm like an alien who just landed in Australia and I'm like, I want to buy real estate here, what are you going to tell me?

[Dan Lee]

I would say. You would. You would? Look in Queensland, which is the state that I'm in, and I've been there. You've been there?

[Dave Hutch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I went snowboarding there. They got mountains there, right?

[Dan Lee]

Not in Queensland. That would. Would have been down south. We do have mountains, but not Queensland. But Brisbane is the. The central city for Queensland. It's a really hot city at the moment. We're hosting the Olympics in, too. And it's kind of put Brisbane on the map a little bit, you know, worldwide, because no one really knew. Ask any foreigner. Name a city in Brisbane in Australia and they'll say Sydney or Melbourne. Right. And Brisbane never comes up unless you've been here. But now Brisbane's kind of on the. We are in sort of the. We have a very tropical climate here, which is, you know, mostly good because the weather's fantastic. Winter is not too cold. Summer can get pretty hot. But overall, people seem to love the weather here. Lots of blue skies and it's just a beautiful. A beautiful place to live. It's a great place to raise a family. It's very safe. It's probably too safe. You know, there's. There's. There's so many rules for safety, but it is a. It is a super safe city. You know, it's just been going crazy, crazy bonkers in the last few years ever since COVID really became like. It became the city to move to during COVID So some of the other cities had really, really strong restrictions with lockdowns and stuff. Melbourne was like one of the most miserable places to live on earth in lockdown, and a lot of people sold and moved to Brisbane. And since then, it's it's just really become the hottest city in, in Australia.

[Daniel]

I got two questions. One, since. Since I guess you said Brisbane's kind of been on like a bit of a upswing since like during the pandemic. Have you found. Because I think what we see from like we're Canadian and we analyze a lot like the American markets and some of the, some of the places that got really big during the pandemic, they're now seeing like the opposite. Lots of people leaving. Are you seeing people kind of sticking around in Brisbane?

[Dan Lee]

Yes. And that, that's been the big difference is that, you know, every city in the world pretty much had that Covid boom and probably it went. It went too far. And then you know, following that 22, 23 and 24, a lot of those cities and areas just experienced downturn. We kind of just went way up and then sort of just sat at the same price. And we haven't really come back that much. Maybe, maybe a smidge. But the areas that have come back are really, you know, Sydney and Melbourne have experiencing much bigger downturns. And if we're talking about major cities and then where that's like anywhere that, that people buy, that's just like when you have too much money, you go and buy like coastal regions and you know, beach properties. They. They seem. They always like they're the ones that people buy when they've just. You don't, you don't need to live there, but you just want to live there for sure. So they.

[Dave Hutch]

Florida.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dan Lee]

It's probably the same thing there.

[Daniel]

Yeah. And Tulum, we're experiencing the same thing, you know, like. Yeah, in Tulum we had zero restrictions during the lockdown. So it was really cool to live here. It was the opposite of what we're used to in Canada. But yeah, now we're experiencing that kind of come down after covert where everybody's went back to real life, you know.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah.

[Daniel]

Part two of my question was what would. What's the average? Like can you give us like some average price points from like a starter home? I'm guessing there's condos and stuff there. You know, can you give us average like price point for those?

[Dan Lee]

Yeah. So in Brisbane's Brisbane is sort of on par with Melbourne pricing now. It always went, Sydney's the most expensive by far and it's about double what you pay in Brisbane. And then it was always Melbourne after that. And then Brisbane was always the cheapest city. But Brisbane's caught up to Melbourne now and so we actually have A higher median sale price compared to Melbourne, which is crazy because it's never ever been in the whole history of ever. So we've just overtaken Melbourne in median house price. I think it sits at about 1.1 million Australian dollars, which, you know, with the American exchange rate is about, say, seven.

[Daniel]

Wow. Okay, that's average. Average, like for like an average starter home, you're saying?

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Daniel]

Well, and then what about like a condo? Like, like get into what's like a. Do you guys have like studios and one bedroom condos or is that not really.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, yeah, we got all that. We got all that. So like standard two bedroom, two bathroom unit, which. That would sit around. Around brand new. You're looking at about 850, 900 Australian. And then secondhand. Good, good condition. Maybe 700,000. 750. Yeah.

[Daniel]

Is that, Is that the terminology you guys use, second hand? Because if that, Is that what you like. That's like the official realtor language, secondhand.

[Dan Lee]

I don't, I don't think it is.

[Daniel]

Either way, I'm taking it there.

[Dave Hutch]

I'm bringing up like, what do we call it? Resale used house.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, use second hand. I don't even know what we call it. What do we call it? There's off the plan, brand new or there's established. Established, yeah.

[Daniel]

I'm going second.

[Dave Hutch]

Very regal, actually. Established. Yeah. Secondhand was giving me like Value Village vibe, you know. Goodwill store.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thrift shop.

[Dave Hutch]

Yeah, thrift shop. Thrift houses. Okay, so on the note on the, on this, like, now that we're kind of into it, like resale market, et cetera. So I think Australia is one of the only places in the world that that does this, other than maybe, I think like Wales. You guys basically do like auctions for the most part, right? Like, can you explain to me how this whole thing works? Because I'm. I mean, in Canada we just discovered like bidding wars. And the US they started doing the same thing, right? Like set the price really low, get a bunch of people out to throw an offer at it, build this, like, you know, hype. You guys have been doing this for a long time. Like you invented that stuff, right?

[Dan Lee]

I think we think we did, yeah. It's been going since, you know, since World War times. We've been auctioning properties. It's one strategy. I wouldn't say that most properties are auctioned and it certainly really differs from town to town. And it usually takes. It sort of needs to be embedded into the culture to become, you know, A frequent thing that everyone's sort of doing. So you'll find in Sydney and Melbourne and the bigger cities, it's. It's really prevalent auctions. But, you know, you go anywhere outside the city to smaller regional towns and, and you know, even in cities, like, there'll be some suburbs where auctions are really prevalent and then a few suburbs over. No one does auctions. And it's really, it's really up to the agent to push the strategy. If the agent pushes strategy, like this is the best way to get you the most money, is we go to auction and the agents are pushing it, then they will, they will. You know, they're the ones that get the owners to accept. Like, we're going to take this strategy because there's. There's multiple strategies to sell a home. And usually those strategies are we put a price on it that's too high and we come down. It's very traditional way to sell anything. There's like an offers above strategy where we price it a little bit lower than what we think and say offers from this price, which I tend to really like. It's. It's sort of like if you think something's worth a million, put offers over 950 and you're gonna, you're gonna get everyone interested because it looks like great value. And we'll see where the price goes from there. And we have sort of, you know, behind closed doors, bidding more, where we're not allowed to let each buyer know what the price, what anyone's offer is. So it's not transparent. Okay. It's still a very good strategy.

[Daniel]

Can I. Can I ask questions? Okay, so for the second one, the one you just talked about, where you listed a little bit underneath asking price and you hold and you expect offers over. Were you saying that? So you don't have to let the other buyers know about each individual offer that's in play. You don't have to give the specifics or you do.

[Dan Lee]

We're not allowed to. Actually. It's actually illegal to disclose another party's offer. So that's.

[Daniel]

Hold on. Wait, one more. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I have to know when you say illegal because I. I'll get into my. I want to ask you a question, but when you say illegal, like, who's legally holding you accountable? Legally?

[Dan Lee]

Well, the queens. The rules developed by the Queensland Law.

[Daniel]

Society, like a real legal.

[Dan Lee]

It's really legal. Yeah. We are not legally allowed to disclose another offer under a private treaty sale. Private treaty means putting a price on it or having the Property listed for sale without a price and just saying offers, taking all offers or, you know, price by negotiation or whatever title you want to put on it, where you just don't put a price and you just ask the buyers, what would you, would you like to make an offer? And then you might give them some sort of guide around where it needs to be and they make an offer. But you're not allowed to disclose that offer to another buyer. We're allowed to tell another buyer there is an offer on the table and we can swing that, you know, any way we want by saying, look, it's a really strong offer. We, you know, we expect to sell above a certain level you really should make, but we can't actually tell them the offer. But that's the difference. That's the big difference between private treaty and auction. With auction, the price is transparent. Everyone can see what everyone else is willing to pay. And, you know, that's, that's, that's why we can achieve such high prices in an auction. Because, you know, if you're a buyer, let's say, and there's a price of offers over 950 and you want to make an offer and the agent says, hey, there's three other offers on the table. I can't tell you what they are, but you need to be the highest offer to win. You're just sitting there as the buyer going, what does it need to be? Holy shit, should I offer a million? And this is the response from the agent, well, if that's your best offer, put a million. But if it's any lower than the other offers, you're not going to buy it. Oh, shit. The buyer's thinking, what do I offer? Million and 25 then. Okay, is that going to do? Could. We can't tell them, we can't tell them. And that's very frustrating for buyers because, you know, let's say I put a million 25, and then the agent calls me back and says, sorry, mate, it sold. What did it sell for? Million and 35. You think I would have paid that, right, if I knew, right? Well, that's where auction brings the best out of people. Because if, if it was an auction, that, that bit, that buyer at million 35 would have had to bid to a million 35. And then this guy now knows, well, I have to go higher than that. And so it really draws the best price out of everyone.

[Daniel]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Dan Lee]

And, and, and that's why, that's why it can be super successful. And really, it's really Successful when you have two or more bidders that really want it and are willing to pay, like, you know, a great price for it, that's when it really works.

[Daniel]

Amazingly cool, I think. So we're actually in Canada. We use that second tactic that you talked about where we wouldn't disclose the price to the other buyers. And the same thing I've always said. I think transparency would actually get the sellers more money because there's a lot of people that are leaving 5, 10k on the table because they don't know.

[Dan Lee]

You know, that's right.

[Daniel]

Do you. Before I have a question, I have a bunch of questions. I have so many questions. As. As the realtor, if you choose to do an auction, do you, like, outsource an auctioneer or are you expected to also be an auctioneer?

[Dan Lee]

No, you have. You can do it if you're the agent, but you have to be licensed, so it's a separate license to be an auctioneer, you have to, you know, go. Go through a course and actually, you know, it's like sit the exams and all that and get your auctioneer's license to be an auctioneer. So not you. Not any random person can just do it. No, I'm not. I would like to be, actually, but I have an auctioneer in my office who's also a great agent in my office, and he's been with Plum Property for so long, and I've always just let him be the auctioneer and he's a great auctioneer, so I've never done it.

[Daniel]

I know. I love the videos you post a lot on there with the hilarious auctioneer ones. And they get me. If you guys aren't following on Instagram, like, you.

[Dave Hutch]

Yeah, your social is, like, one of the best, for sure. The Road to Tosser series was like.

[Dan Lee]

Oh, did you watch the Road, mate? That. That's OG stuff. That was like, back in covert days.

[Dave Hutch]

Oh, yeah, that's what I sent that to Dave, like, as soon as we started the show, I was like, we have to get this guy on here for sure. And he's, like, done. And he called you, like, the next day.

[Daniel]

That day, I was like, I'm calling this guy. This guy's killing. So funny.

[Dave Hutch]

So do you guys have buyer agents then or. No, like, is there. Is it? But how does that work? There's no. Like. Yeah, how does it work?

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, good question. So it's different here to. In North America, I believe over there, pretty much every transaction has a seller's agent, and a buyer's agent is that right?

[Dave Hutch]

Yeah.

[Dan Lee]

And so there's two commissions paid. I don't know who pays it over here. There's really, there's, there's. You don't need to use a buyer's agent, and most people don't use a buyer's agent. Okay, buyer's agent. Buyer's agents are used usually for people that are really busy and they just don't have time to look for properties. And so, you know, they're lawyers, they're professional, you know, professionals of some sort who. It's just way too busy. They don't have time to go looking at properties every day. And they just would rather a professional do it for them, give them what they're looking for, and off goes this professional to find them and negotiate them a property. And so the fee is about around two and a half percent. So busy people, people who are moving cities will often use a buyer's agent because, you know, flying to a city to go to open homes and check out properties might be just too hard. So. And they don't really know the areas, so they'll use a buyer's agent. And also during, like, Covid era, a lot of just regular people would start using buyer's agents because properties were just getting sold so quickly that no one could get in. And buyer's agents have all the connections with all the agents. And when an agent gets a property, they usually send it to all the buyer's agents first and go, I've got this property. I'm launching it in a few weeks. But if you've got a buyer, you.

[Daniel]

Can bring them through.

[Dan Lee]

And so they often get, you know, that first hookup to the property. So that was a big sell for buyer's agents. As to why to sign up with them is we'll get you early entry to properties. But as I said, most transactions are not done with the buyer's agent. So when we, when agents, we really all just work for the seller. When we, when we're signing up, you know, we're. We're only advertising ourselves to, to sellers really, like, sell with us, we get you the best price. We're not advertising, you know, buy with us. We'll do a great job buying your property. We. We only do the one side, which probably means there's, you know, half the amount of agents in the marketplace because there's only half the amount of deals to be done because there's only one side to be doing it on. And the buyer's agent industry is probably 5% the size of the seller's Agent industry.

[Daniel]

Interesting.

[Dan Lee]

So here. Over there. Yeah, everyone's got to use a buyer zone, which is, which is fairly strange in this day and age because we have site, a website when there's two major ones. There's realestate.com which is the biggest real estate portal. Every single agent in Australia, when they list a property, pay a fee to put their property on realestate.com and so if you're.

[Dave Hutch]

That's your primary like, MLS system. Right.

[Dan Lee]

And I don't know what an MLS.

[Dave Hutch]

System is, but listing services, like, that's where they aggregate, like all of the real estate listings. I'm like, in North America.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah. Okay, well, you must have a site like that, right?

[Dave Hutch]

What's it called? Well, in the U.S. like, there's boards on a, like a state by state basis and they get aggregated onto realtor.com or Zillow is actually like a private, like a private MLS that has taken over most of the boards. But then you've got, in, in Canada, you've got an aggregator called Realtor Ca and then. Yeah, same thing.

[Dan Lee]

Same thing, yeah. Okay, so realestate.com is like that. Everyone puts their listings on there. So you'll have the branded listing with the agency and then the agent's photo down the corner and then the property listing. And then you can flick through the photos of each one and then click into each listing and get all the information and whatever. And it'll tell you when the open home is and et cetera. And you can contact the agent so they can send an inquiry and it'll be emailed off to the agent or whatever, or you can just call them. So everyone puts their listings on there. So if you're a buyer and you're looking for a property, you basically go on this website and put in what, what, what area you're looking in and what price range and what type of property. You can put whatever filter in and up comes the list of properties and you flick through them and you look at which ones you want to inquire about and which open homes you want to go to. And you basically do your own research and contact agents and off you go. And then you go to a property and you look at it and you go, just talk to the agent like, oh, okay, how much is this one? How do I make an offer? And the agent just helps you to facilitate your offer. You need a buyer's agent to do that for you. Yeah, so that's how it works here.

[Daniel]

I think the one difference is that. And I So I actually met a friend who, who, when I was speaking at Inman, and he's from Australia, and he was creating a platform where you could see all the bids online. You know, we don't have that in Canada. So he's trying to create like a software where. Like a live auction software, essentially. But I think the main difference for you guys versus us in North America is it's not like a. If the realtor were to mislead, it wouldn't be a lawful issue. It would be like a issue within our real estate, which could be a fine. But, you know, yours is legally an issue, ours is not. So it's like. I think that's right. So it's, that's the thing. It's like, well, is the listing agent. We call them listing agents or selling agents in Canada or I guess the U.S. it's like, do you trust that person? But you guys are bound by law. So it's like, yeah, in the US.

[Dave Hutch]

There's a lot of, like, it's more litigious as well. So there's a higher degree of trust because, you know, you're fearful of being sued basically if you do something wrong. Like in Canada, everything's a slap on the wrist. They did just start getting a little bit more serious with, with like the fines and stuff, but the consumer doesn't have a ton of recourse either. So that's interesting.

[Daniel]

But how did that. So, okay, here's my. I think what a lot of people come to us as the, as the buyer's agents, what they're. And it's becoming less and less important because of the Internet, which is getting much more evolved. But I think for the longest time we were really good at gatekeeping. Our information realtors were great at gatekeeping. And now it's all public information. But where would, where would people go in Australia to see the comparables of what sold? Like, is there a website you guys have? Or like, say I'm a buyer and I want to buy your. Your listing? It's like, how would I know if you're doing the strategy where you list it under market value and you know you're expecting a little bit more. How would I, as a educated buyer, know what to put price at if you can't tell me?

[Dan Lee]

Well, usually it's by doing, doing research and going around and looking at all the other properties on the market. Okay. So when you look, you, you get a feel for it as a buyer. You don't know when you like, first jump on the computer and Start looking on your first day. It's kind of difficult to sort of understand what properties are worth, but it doesn't take long to figure it out. If you go out for two, two Saturdays and look at five properties on each Saturday in the price range that you have, you quickly figure it out. And then like, you might make an offer on one, you don't get it because you don't offer enough. And then you find out, okay, that one sold for this price. And then you start seeing, oh, that one I saw there, that one sold for this price. And you quickly work it out. But you know, the agents will also give buyers information about recent sales in the area if they need to help them.

[Daniel]

Yeah, well, since we're talking about like the fees and real estate fees and commissions, who. I think we talked about this on the phone briefly. But who's. Who's paying for staging costs? Is that on the. Like, who's getting the property ready? Who's paying for the marketing fees, the photos, videos, staging, all that stuff?

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, so the sellers pay for that. In Australia, the majority of the time, agents can throw it in with their with package. There are agents that say, you know, my fee is two and a half percent and I'll do the advertising for you as well. But usually they'll just do really basic shit advertising. So, you know, over here our fees are separate. It's. You pay for the commission. That's separate. It's. It's, you know, on average two and a half percent plus, plus tax, which is another 10% of the fee. And then the marketing can sit anywhere between, say, $3,000 and $6,000, depending on location, because the price differs on realestate.com that's the main difference, depending on area. And that's a separate fee. So. So sellers usually pay for that before we list. And that takes the risk away from the agent and the agency. If, if the property doesn't sell, then we're not having to spend our time and our money. The time is already enough that has been spent.

[Daniel]

That happens a lot here. Dan, I got one question before. I know you maybe have one here, but.

[Dave Hutch]

No, keep going. Yeah, no, I'm enjoying.

[Daniel]

The one thing that I honestly found the most interesting from our phone call is that in North America. Well, okay, I'll speak for Canada. In Canada, it benefits me drastically to meet with other realtors and be around the realtors and befriend them and chat them up and because we work together a lot. But the one thing that's different where you are Is that, like, you don't really need to communicate with other realtors because you're never really, like, not that often collaborating. Right. Or it's less frequent.

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, it's, it's very infrequent that we collaborate with other agents because we're all just out there competing to get the listings and we don't really need each other. Once you've got the listing. We. We collaborate with buyer's agents a lot.

[Daniel]

Right.

[Dan Lee]

But as I said, most buyers aren't engaged with the buyer's agents. So it's, it's only a little bit. But yeah, agents don't like the, the attitude of agents in Australia is, is kind of negative. Most agents have this like, puffed up chest. Like, they see another agent, they're like, look at that douchebag. They don't even know them. They just, they just know that it's an agent that doesn't work in their business. So they don't like them. It's. Agents don't typically tend to like each other in general. I mean, I don't give a shit. I like everyone. But that's just like the kind of the over. Overarching.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Dave Hutch]

Right. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, it. I will tell you. I'll tell you the truth. It is, it's kind of weird when it happens here too. Like, I always get like the classic. Mostly I think the, the word is out on me. There must be some exp group that's like, don't approach Dan. He's going to make you feel like shit, you know, but, you know, I'll get somebody to slide into my DMs. And they're like, hey, have you thought about your retirement? And I'm like, no, I'm fully planning to work until I die. Like, what do you. But it's, you know, to me, the joke is like, if you guys spend as much time. No, and no disrespect, because I, I love all agents. I'm like you, Dan. But I'm like, if you guys spend as much time following up with your actual clients as you did with agents, like, you would all be so successful. You wouldn't give a. If you were getting stocks or downline or anything. Right? So that's just my 2 cents on the whole matter.

[Daniel]

No, you're right. No, it's hard because you got to. They have to sell real estate. You know, like, there's very few that actually sell real estate. So it's like you can have a 150 people, but if none of them are selling real estate. Well, you're not making any money, you know.

[Dave Hutch]

Yeah. I think the other part is like, there's kind of a customer service aspect. Like there's an expectation. Right. Like, hey, you brought me onto this brokerage. Like I get to ask you questions now or whatever as well. Right. Which I think a lot of people don't realize what they're signing. Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize they're signing themselves up for that. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Daniel]

That's exactly how it was.

[Dave Hutch]

No, you're absolutely right, dude. It's exactly what happens.

[Daniel]

That's exactly how it was. I did that. That was me. I had that exact situation. No, no, no, not. I was actually briefly for like a little bit, but I went to a different one anyways. It was, it was just that. Exactly. You get a million people underneath of you and when you really. And you actually calculate how much you make off of each person and the amount of hours that are going into them, it's like it's not worth it. Worth it. But. Okay, well, you, you said you have like a team where you're bringing on you help agents. Yeah. So do you. Is it like kind of a team structure type thing? Like you're the mentor and then they can kind of rely on you a little bit? I think that's the way to go though. Honestly, even that's how, that's kind of how the, the team structure. I think the team, the team culture in, in Canada, that's how I led my team. Even when I had a team, I still have a small team, but when I had a larger team, it was always teaching them how to, how to build their own brand instead of just, hey, come to my team with my face and my logo and then you got to give me commission. And then, you know, it just. I don't think that works anymore. Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. We have the same kind of setup here a little bit. You, you mentioned the rent rentals, so I'm kind of curious. Are there a lot of investors? This is my really dumb question. Are there a ton of. Are you working with a lot of investors? Like who. Who is the main purchaser of properties right now? You know, for example, in Canada and the U.S. the first time home buyers are dropping drastically because they just can't afford it anymore for whatever reason. But we're seeing first time home buyers drop drastically. And also in Toronto specifically, the investors are kind of not really around either. So like, who's the client profile That's. That's buying property right now in Brisbane. Wow.

[Dan Lee]

Okay.

[Daniel]

Right.

[Dave Hutch]

Yeah yeah. Interesting.

[Daniel]

Wow wow. Yeah. So like other rentals performing well in. In Brisbane like as other rental prices on the rise, are they kind of stabilized? Yeah, we're seeing the exact same thing I think you know, over the last maybe. Well I guess couple years now. It's like that's the exact conversation that we have in Toronto too. It's like if you're buying this, who's winning in. In Toronto in my opinion is. Or Canada. I'll say Toronto is the first time home buyers. The people that are buying to stay there a little bit. You know, the people that are trying to make a quick dollar or flip or make it some crazy investment. It's not really the play right now, but. Right, right, right, right, right. Wow. So capital capital gain taxes is applied even if it's your primary residence. If. If sol. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay, easy. I mean I guess I think I'd probably rather do that than pay give away half to be honest.

[Dave Hutch]

I think it's like a. Dave touched a little bit on. On foreign investment. Like a huge huge thing that we've seen happen. It like happened in a big way kind of pre. Covid. During COVID quite a bit. And then now it seems to have unwound a little bit. Like you're starting to see more like nationalistic sentiment where a lot of governments are actually banning foreign investment and stuff like that. Canada has banned foreign investment. You know a lot of the. The more the. The remote work areas like Spain and Portugal have. Have got. You know have done things to get rid of the. The all the crypto bros. What's going on like with. Who would be the biggest foreign investors in. In Australia? Like you guys are much more geographically proximate to China than Canada, but we had a ton of Chinese capital coming into Canada, a lot of Indian capital coming into Canada and. And from Iran as well. Like is it kind of the same big three or what's. What's going on with that? Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Daniel]

But they can only. They can only buy a pre built right? They can't buy. They can't buy. Okay really?

[Dave Hutch]

So could they have it as like a. Could it be like a seasonal residence? Like if there is like a cottage or something? Right? Is that like sounds like a enforcement nightmare? Like is that actually like. Like how do they. Does that get enforced? Like how do they check? You guys have a good. You guys have a good tax man. I feel like in. In Canada they don't know all that much, to be honest.

[Daniel]

Like, yeah, Canada is different for sure.

[Dave Hutch]

It's definitely different.

[Daniel]

Yeah. Is it. What about. Is Airbnb a big thing in Australia or not really? Like, is it other. Other restrictions against it? Interesting. It's kind of the same in Toronto. They're. They're really cracking down. It's. It's almost.

[Dan Lee]

It's.

[Daniel]

It's really challenging because, for example, there's only. Let's say there's thousands of condos in. In downtown Toronto. Only maybe 10 or 15 of them are actually allowed to Airbnb. It has to be within the condo rules and declaration that you're allowed to Airbnb. And the fines are massive. Right? Man, I don't know. Take up too much your time. I know we. That you got a cyclone coming and you got a bunker. Hunker down and put up the. It's still coming. But no, man, we. We appreciate you, man, honestly. I know. Well, what time is it there? Where. What time is it? See, I know. I was watching the time, and I was like, man, these guys got to go, probably. Look, dude, we. We appreciate you so much. Honestly, I think if you're not following Dan on Instagram, you're literally missing out. I watched all your stuff, man. I think you're one of the funnier dudes I've met, and it's cool that you're also doing it in a way to provide value. I think you're doing incredible things, man, and what a treat it was to have you on. So thanks so much, man.

[Dave Hutch]

Appreciate it, man. And we'll. We'll put all your info in the show notes, so. But if people want to find you, where. Where should they do that? Awesome. There you go. Okay. Thanks, man.