← Real Estate Without Borders
Real Estate Without Borders
How will Ai change the real estate industry - ft Judd from Ethica Ai
00:38:27
Loading summary
Transcript80 lines
- [00:01]
A
All right, welcome back to the Real Estate Without Borders podcast. I am joined today by a gentleman named Jud who has, you know, you've made some pretty significant changes in the real estate space, I think in the way that people are drafting offers especially. Can you give me a quick introduction? Who are you, what do you do and. And how are you changing the industry right now?
- [00:21]
B
Thanks Daniel. Appreciate you having me, man. Name's Judd Hoffman, co founder and CEO of Ethica AI. A little bit about me spent much of my career in real estate and title industry actually. Daniel, do you know anything about US Title?
- [00:37]
A
A little bit. Not as much as I should probably, but yeah.
- [00:41]
B
So I was leadership roles like first American title, second largest in the country, but it called states title. And I worked on modernizing how real estate transactions actually happen behind the scenes. And Daniel, what I thought, you know, what I kept seeing was even though real estate as you know, is like a multi trillion dollar industry, the transaction process is still like manual, lots and lots and lots of forms. And you know, looking through all of that, Daniel, and all the forms and all like the just manual friction. And it, it led us to kind of make. Build voice pilot, which we'll talk about in a little bit. And what. Voice pilot is very, very high level. And we'll go into it, Daniel is. It's a platform that turns like simple conversations like you and I are having into completed real estate like forms and transactions. And so long story short, Daniel is, you know, instead of agents spending hours navigating paperwork, they can describe the deal over their phone and AI automatically brings up the document. So we're kind of, when you say how are we changing things? We're meeting agents here. Instead of giving them more logins, giving them more stuff to do, we're actually using phones. So I'll stop there.
- [01:57]
A
Yeah, so it's interesting because like I, you know, I co own a real estate brokerage. We use a lot of AI tools in Canada, but not, not a lot of them on the voice side of things. So I think it's really interesting. I, I mean how far are we from like, you know, me and my client having a conversation and me just like recording that conversation or like giving it a transcript from like a, you know, a call or a zoom to, to just do it like, and even almost like offloading the whole critical thinking piece as well. Like it sounds like that's probably the logical next step.
- [02:28]
B
Right? Yeah. And so to kind of take it at a higher level. I love when you smiled and said that is that's why all the agents that are using this and testing it and telling their buddies, that's the whole premise, is we want to be like, let's take even a step back, even more. You know, everyone's using AI for marketing. So, Dan, you said you're in, you know, your broker. And everyone said, use AI for marketing. Do everything AI marketing. So we're like, why not just go transaction layer? So that is exactly it, Daniel. We want to be like the assistant to the broke, to the broker, to the agent. And so, you know, for us, that is the future. And it's not so much. It's like you put this phone down, you talk to your buyer and seller, voice pilot will grab it all, and we'll put it into all of your intent, we'll put it contextually into a document, and we'll take the further step to put it into an offer or a listing agreement. And that's what we do today.
- [03:23]
A
Yeah, it's pretty wild. And it's funny because I agree with you. I think realtors are so. They're such an interesting customer, right. We serve them as well at the brokerage level, I think, because they're very much like salespeople are. Almost like, you're a marketing layer for a property.
- [03:42]
B
Right.
- [03:42]
A
Like, you know, realtors should be thinking of themselves as like a digital agency for. For a house or a marketing agency for a house. They always think marketing first. But I mean, marketing is like one of the few fun parts of the job, right? Like, you know, and it honestly, like. And so I look at things like, with what agentic AI is doing now, like, you know, people can spin up, like, I mean, Claude basically. Well, openclaw came out, and Claude basically started stacking in a lot of these, like, sort of remote access and.
- [04:09]
B
And.
- [04:09]
A
And schedulable cron jobs. You know, the labor layer seems like a much more intelligent place to be attacking. Right? Like, and. And what's the thing that agents hate doing the most? I would say probably writing offers is. Is. Is probably the task that I think is the. The. It's. It's high. It's a high leverage task. Right. It's an important job. But I. I feel like it's one of those things that, like, nobody loves, nobody says, like, I can't wait to write an offer right now. Right.
- [04:33]
B
Yep. And you know what, Daniel, it's funny you said that. So, like, everyone says to us, hey, you have an agentic agent called, you know, Ethica, and utilizing voice pilot. And so, you know what Happens to me. Couple things. One, Ethica is built on the name. Ethica comes from, like, ethical AI. Just so you know. Like, we came up with that, like, three years ago because I think AI has the worst PR department. Yeah, Worst. Like, everyone. So what we're saying is agents stay in full control. To your point, though, Daniel, like, voice pilot helps accelerate the drafting and workflow process. Like, nobody loves that. Right, Right. It does not replace judgment, negotiation, or client relationships. So those are, like, the. The core values of an agent. Right. Real estate is so deeply human. Think about it. That whole thing with, you know, in Florida that he sold his house using all AI. Like, yeah, you know what? It's called a Fizbo. Right. And he just, like, you know, such
- [05:28]
A
a good example, actually, like, lean into that, because there was still a buyer agent on that deal. Like, he fizboed, and there was a buyer agent.
- [05:34]
B
He also used a FSBO MLS thing to put it up there. So it's called the fsbo. And he just literally used AI Use, actually Claude, to, like, good comps and things like that. Like, okay, and. But look how much play, though, it's getting. Right? And so that, to me, is the deeper issue. And I think the great point is everyone's grabbing to that story, saying, look, we don't need agents. Which is like, no, you do need agents. He utilized AI to do a lot of the research, the transaction layer. So for us, we're just, like, we're removing their administrative friction, not the professional. And, like, I don't love. And Dan, you probably hear this a lot. Everyone came to us and said, you, you should replace the agent. Yeah. If you think about how hard real estate is, like, everyone just sees the marketing and let me show you a house. It's literally the biggest small business in the country. There's millions of agents that every day go out there with a flag and market themselves. And so that story really, if you really dig deep, every agency is loving picking it up because it's like, look, you may not need an agent. It's like, really, if you don't, you really dig into it. The agent was on both sides. There was an MLS listing. The guy did research using AI.
- [06:53]
A
It is funny, too, like, when you talk about replacing the AI, like, or replacing the agent with AI. So there's a couple of, like, layers to that. I think layer number one is litigation. Right. And you, as somebody in title would. Would know this better than anybody else. Like, the contract is. Is the legal document that would be enforceable by, you know, the, the courts. And so you know what happens if AI brokered your deal? Like who you're not suing anthropic, like good luck, right? Like you're not, you're not suing open AI. Like, you know, we, let's.
- [07:23]
B
Can we dive into that for a second?
- [07:25]
A
Yeah, zoom in for sure.
- [07:25]
B
You're a, you're a broker, right? You're a broker. So that's awesome. So let me tell you, the other layer is, and I love you saying who you're suing, right? Real estate is like close enough is not good enough. Like to your point, like, yeah, people don't realize like that's a legal document that we're filling out. Right. And so if you're dealing with contracts, disclosures, timelines, accuracy has to come first, right? So everyone's like, doesn't hallucinate, does it do this? And so for our, you know, our roll up right now is we're careful. So what we do is we fill out the form, we make it easy. You know, who's the next layer? The agent. Like they got everything. Like.
- [08:08]
A
Yeah.
- [08:09]
B
And so. But the funny thing is you're a broker. Let's talk about that for a second. So we have a tool for the agent. And so the agents are loving this. Now we have a tool for a broker. So Daniel, let me, let me tell you what this looks like. So how many times have you had an agent fill something out? You're like, what do you mean? You're going to paint the fence for them as a contingency? Like, what does that even mean? Right? So what we do is we have a broker addition where a broker can come in and say, for my 800 agents, here are my guardrails. So floor of 2% commission or they can't put this in unless every form is filled out in completion. So now we're catching things proactively instead of reactively after like they promised 185 day contingency. The broker's like, yeah, there's no such thing as that. And so to your point is just like if Tesla, you're driving a car and it's fully automated and you hit something, who do you sue? There's someone behind that wheel though, right?
- [09:10]
A
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, it's, it's such an excellent point. And I so that, that to me is the like the, the thing where people underestimate like it. Sure. You could probably just. You like the guy who sold this house with chat GPT, he probably could have actually used an AI agent to broker his entire deal. And that's fine for like 90% of cases, right. But on a 10% margin of error, with average house price being whatever $600,000, your risk is 60k. And the person, the people who lose are, are going to end up with, with their hands empty. I think like, until, until something changes where there's some degree of accountability associated with the AI, you still need that person steering like you're, you know, the, the steering, the Tesla to be, to be held accountable at the end of the day.
- [09:55]
B
Right?
- [09:55]
A
Like so. So Realtors should be eliminating a lot of the work that gets them the piece of paper that they, they have to now run quality assurance on to ship to their, to their, to their client. Right.
- [10:07]
B
Like, yep.
- [10:08]
A
Until that goes away, there's no. And. And the lobbying companies, they've done a lot to make sure. I mean, NAR is the biggest lobbying body in the country, I believe, to my understanding. So they've done a lot to make sure to protect this.
- [10:19]
B
Oh, my goodness. And, and to that point, you know, we did something very, very, I would say lucky and obvious, but we partnered with car. So California Association Realtors is the largest association in each state, right? It's the largest state association. So we had a, they had a vet this. They have 220,000 constituents. So for us, we're like, everyone is so down on AI. What I say down is it's going to rule the world or it's going to make mistakes. Why does it show six fingers and it has you saying different words. But the end of the day, CAR looked at this and said, okay, let's look at this on a couple facets, right. First, does it work? Yes. Second, you know, 52% of the agents in California using old forms. Let's just stop there. Like, that is an old form. It's a contract, and they keep it on their desktop and they've been using it since 24. Can't do that with an AI product. Like just, it just doesn't happen. Also, 32%, Daniel, forget to fill out lines. Like, forget to like click a box. It's a legal forum. So, Daniel, if you think about it, say you close on a house, someone doesn't like that, the floor squeaks, they go to a lawyer and the lawyer is like, well, on your rpa, they didn't fill out two lines. This isn't completed transaction. Like, there's so much legal, like things that. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, you know, with AI, it's just Interesting that when people are using chat, Daniel, it's not built for real estate. It's not built for every anything. It's built for everything. So you have to make sure you're using a tool that's built for the industry. And so like, with real estate, you know how tough it is to build something with all these forms and all the, you know, all those other docs. It's ridiculous. And so you can't use Chat or Claude for that right now. You just can't.
- [12:09]
A
Yeah, no, I agree. Like, if you have to use the provincially mandated forms, it is funny because you could just write like ChatGPT could probably write a lawyer agreement pretty well.
- [12:18]
B
Yep.
- [12:18]
A
And you could likely enforce a contract in that way. But if you're not using the association forms, then you don't have the same association protections. Right. Like, you know, it would be outside of the E O or errors and omissions insurance environment. So, like, in a lot of, in a lot of cases, like, I think you're using these things to amplify the protections you get from those boards. And like, in five years, will this be very, a very different conversation as, as guys like you are gathering all the inference data from, like, what are the important things coming into transactions? Probably. But like, in the next two years, is it going to be a different conversation? No, probably not. Until we get to like minimum 10% adoption of AI by realtors. And I think we're at what, 1% right now, you know, like 1% of
- [13:00]
B
humans, like 80 basis points. It's like. Point.
- [13:02]
A
Yes.
- [13:03]
B
Like it's. And you know what, though, to think about it though, you know, I had something come up yesterday, Daniel, that was really interesting. It was a foreign speaking person and I think it was Farsi, and they were trying to fill out a form. Good thing about AI is my AI speaks every language. Like. Yeah, every language. Right.
- [13:23]
A
Yeah.
- [13:23]
B
And so, you know, when you have intent. And it was really interesting to see. And also there was another Spanish speaker and this agent didn't know Spanish. So it was really interesting to see them interact and, and the consumer was able to see the form and say, yes, that's exactly what I meant. And it was just really, really cool where again, if you utilize AI to make you more powerful, it works. If you use it to do your job, it could become problematic. And also, AI doesn't sleep. It just doesn't sleep, which is also kind of cool.
- [13:54]
A
That makes it great for like prospecting, outbounding, you know, CRM work, or you
- [14:00]
B
have someone that Wants to put an offer on a house at 7:30 at night and your TC is gone.
- [14:06]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [14:07]
B
What do you do? My TC doesn't go to sleep. Right. He doesn't take a day off. He doesn't go to sleep, doesn't take the weekends off. And honestly is there waiting for you at any given time. Right. So it's kind of cool. It really is. And also too Daniel, again you being a broker, you know, now everyone's like, why is this happening now? Forget about AI getting so good, but the transaction complexity continues get increasing because of litigation, right? Like the liability keeps going and everyone's suing for everything. So agents are being asked to do so much more with so much less. And it's just like at some point like AI is becoming useful enough to give an agent an extra arm or two. Because as a broker too, these brokers are like Judd, like you have someone that's been doing this for a month, they don't know how to put a proper offer together. Like they just don't know how to do it. Right. AI can help there.
- [15:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. It is funny because it's, it's a profession that's always criticized as having such a low barrier to entry. Right. Like I know California is a little bit above some places in such that it's like not as easy but like where we are in Ontario, Canada, it's, I mean it's like six, a six month course. It used to be like a, you know, you could do it in like a weekend, right? Like, and I think that's a huge criticism that real estate professionals get. And, and a lot because a lot of people look at it and they say this is, it's easy money, it's not hard to get the, the license I'm going to make. You know, they, they see, you know, agents making six figures and they think that that's, that's how easy it is. And so you get a lot of people who probably shouldn't be doing the job. And I think that, I think that actually AI probably will make the industry have better outcomes for end users because you'll get like a lot of those people will not be able to produce. And a lot of the agents who have exceptional, like you mentioned, like critical thinking, relationships, et cetera, won't be using these tools. I mean you always hear like the, the thing at these realtor conventions where it's like A.I. won't replace realtors. I think it will eventually, but A.I. won't replace realtors. You know, know an agent using A.I. will replace agents not using A.I. or whatever. I don't know if that's like super true for, because when you think about agents not using AI, there's the ones who, like our baby boomer agents, you know, they are older, they have really strong books of business, they have super strong relationships, their customers not going anywhere else. Those people will probably actually end up functioning like a translator to their older customers because those are the people who own most of the real estate in the US and they're, they're all going to sell in the next, you know, know 10 years, 20 years, death, decease, downsize, whatever it is. And they're going to come, and they're going to come into an AI transformed real estate industry and there's going to be a human probably somewhere between the AI and them, at least for the, for the next cycle of transactions that takes place that has to actually translate. I think that, that, that, that. Because again, majority of market participants, I think the average buyer in the US is almost 40 years old, right? 38 years old.
- [17:04]
B
So 42. 42 right now.
- [17:06]
A
So yeah. So majority of them aren't going to be like, they're, these aren't AI native people, right? Like, this isn't your Gen Z. Like, you know, people who are living in, in, you know, terminally online chatgpt. Like your consumer is someone who is a, is not an AI power user. And so I think the rule for the next five years is the realtor is actually a translator between AI and
- [17:24]
B
the, and the, you know, it's, it's really funny that you say that. So I saw a statistic this morning and you know, don't quote me, even though I'm saying it out loud. Like a third of all real estate is owned by an individual that's 60 plus, like in the United States. And so like you said, like whether they just downsize or they just die, right? That they're, and they're not going to sell, right? They're not going to sell. And the interesting thing Daniel, you just said it just resonated with me because Most people aren't AI native. Like nobody unless you're like 18, 19 even, they're not AI native. So like Daniel, I'm having to put together videos to show people how to make a call and how to speak to AI. Like it's really, really interesting, right? It's, it's. You would think just having a conversation is easy, but people, when they start getting AI, they're like, yes, no, hello, no, no, no, no. Talk, talk to us. Like, like you talk to anybody else. So it's, it's brand new. I think it's, it's so new for everybody. There's nobody on this earth. It's like I was born into this. It's just nobody has been really brand new. And to your point, by the way, you just said something. My user, I have a lot of test users. The people that are using this the most are 55 plus right now, believe it or not. And I don't know what it is, they're just like, you know what? I'm always, I don't do my own forms anyway, so I might as well try this out and make a call because I have my million, 2 million, 3 million dollar users and I have my TC that's going to look at it anyway. Let me try it. And they're loving it. What they're doing is they're putting their intent in it and they're sending it to their TC being like, I don't even need to talk to you now here, this is what I want to happen. Make it happen. Which is really interesting. They're using us as that middle layer, like you said.
- [19:06]
A
Yeah, well, and it's so like now that agentic AI can replace a lot of the labor layer. And you're seeing a lot of professionals like even the ones that you described, who, I mean, look, nobody's denying that sales are down substantially. Right. The, you know, agents are having a hard time affording their traditional admin structures. Right. Their traditional administrators who like they, they might have paid 30, 50k a year. Like I don't know a lot of agents who can afford that in a market where we're doing, you know, 25, 30% of the deals that we were doing. But now you, you have this, you know, an AI that can functionally do 60, 70% of what that, that admin could do prior, maybe, maybe even higher. 70, 80% at least considering some of the stuff that we've been able to automate at the brokerage, I would say that they're going to reach for that in the same way that they, once they realize that it's capable of doing human tasks to, you know, they're probably going to reach for that before even, and if it becomes easy enough, they're going to, they're going to continue to do so rather than even thinking about hiring again or you know, trying to go through personnel management, et cetera. Like, like you mentioned there, you know, they don't sleep. They also like, they don't really complain, you know, they don't push back. They follow orders exceptionally well as long as you're really good at giving orders. So I think that that part is, is, is really interesting as well is that we're, I just think we're just gonna like adoption will only ramp up as they get one good rep in. Right? They get one good offer out of, out of your platform. Then they're like, well, what else can I ask it to do? And then what else can I ask it to do?
- [20:40]
B
You just gave me the chills. So it's kind of funny. So you talk about agentic AI, so voice pilot is agentic. And what we're seeing too is you just hit on something really interesting. The more you use it, the more it knows you. So like, it may note that Daniel always puts in a contingency of X. So as you fill this thing out the first time, the next time Daniel, it says to you, hey Daniel, I know last offer. You put these four things. Yes, do that too. Right. And also too, it knows it's connected to title, so it knows the vesting, it's connected to the mls. So if you forget on there that the wine fridge is included, ethical will say, hey Daniel, you know what? I looked at the mls. You have listed here that there's a wine fridge. You better put that into the Avid. So like it kind of knows things because again, AI can do all things at once. But again you are the professional. So it's, it's really, really, really, really interesting. And the last thing too is, you know, it can stop and start. Oh, and the cool thing too Daniel is by the way, did you hear this new statistic that I think it was 70% of all realtors in the US now have done zero deals last year. Yeah, to your point, like. Yeah, I mean they're not spending, you know, five, six hundred dollars a transaction. They're not spending, you know, $50,000 for a TC anymore. It's just, that's not happening. Just not happening.
- [22:03]
A
The, the other complaint that I hear often is like that the real estate industry gatekeeps data like that. It, you know, that that information asymmetry the fact that like the industry has more information. I mean basically like it's, you know, it's an arbitrage where, you know, realtors can exercise rent seeking behavior because they have all of this information that's behind a gate that the consumer doesn't have. Do you see AI like transforming that in any way? Like once, you know, like and, and how do you use, like when you mentioned that they're getting MLS data sheets. Does it Realtor have to or does it pull it from like an IDX feed or something like that?
- [22:36]
B
Yeah, so couple things. I'll go to the first. So we have data licenses with MLs now in California. So we are literally, to your point, we're API ing into each individual mls. So we're grabbing the data. We know it, right? Voicepilot knows it. And so if you go to like I just give it to you. It's a shameless plug for the website, but through www.heyethica.com has a video.
- [22:59]
A
I'll put it in the show notes as well.
- [23:01]
B
Okay, cool. Yeah, look below. And so, you know, so to answer your question is, remember that. And we can go real fundamental AI dorkiness here, right? And so right now you have people that have all the data. When you say people, you can have a brokerage, right, that has all the data of everything they've been doing. Eventually that will be spread across all these agentic AI platforms. Right? And so what people don't realize is I see Realtors using chat and Claude for their descriptions now. It's the funniest thing. Like you see the descriptions, the MLS
- [23:32]
A
descriptions, it's a bunch of M dashes.
- [23:33]
B
The M dashes, like bingo, you owe me a Coke. Like you can see the EM dashes, right? And so what do you think? Where do you think that information is going also? But with the mls, like Chad and Claude is they have all of this. So, you know, I don't know the answer to that, Daniel, but this, this intermediating the knowledge set up here is going to have to happen, right? It's going to have to happen. You can see Robert at Compass trying to do the same thing, right? Like, he's like, why should the mlss and why should Zillow have all this when the constituent is not getting it right?
- [24:08]
A
Yeah, yeah. Okay. I guess the next piece that I think I kind of went through the couple of different things that I think protect the industry from AI actually completely taking it over. You mentioned realtors sort of being every day they're putting this flag out. This is the biggest salesforce in the world, functionally now. They're all like influencers. No, it's this decentralized salesforce that's constantly like pushing for the, the real estate industry to be what the way people transact homes as they start to adopt technologies more like this, like this is something that's kind of ends up existing in secret. And it's sort of like you know, consumers don't know that they're using these tools and it's making them way more efficient. Or are agents like kind of bragging about this and saying, like, I'm AI enabled and they actually celebrate it because they know that is what the consumer wants.
- [24:59]
B
You know what, that is an amazing question. So we've had two camps, right? So I have one camp that's saying that's how they're marketing themselves, right? Hey, if you want me to list your home, let me show you the tools that I use to make sure that you know that you're getting the best. Then you have other agents and I won't say who, what, where, loving this tool and saying I'm going to look better because they're going to think I have a bigger team behind where what's going to happen though. Daniel, I think, you know this. Everyone's gonna be like, I'm using this tool. Because eventually the consumers could be like, what are you using? And you have someone with a photographer coming in and snapping stuff instead of using everything else. So I think there's a pendulum that's going. People are bragging about it. Consumers will eventually start asking, what AI tools are you using to help me? Because if you're not, yeah, I need to find somebody that is.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah, we've seen it a lot with our agents. Like, we do a lot of like, meta ads management for like, basically to like pay per click arbitrage stuff to like get costing down, to get a ton of impressions for listings. And they all put it in their listing presentations now, right? Like, consumers want to hear that the agent that they're using to market their home, especially in the toughest. You know, this is, this is like the deepest buyer's market we've seen in Canada and the US in decades, right? Since the global financial crisis, really. So they want to know that the agent that they're hiring is also using a ton of AI tools to, to try and get them the best results, which I find fascinating.
- [26:32]
B
So I had, you know, rename re main Nameless, one of the biggest agents in, in Southern California, call me up and say, hey, I'm trying to win a buyer, or I'm trying, I'm trying to win a listing. Can I have a presentation with you and them on the phone to show you what, what I'm using? And I was like, every day and Sunday he won the listing. And this guy, he's on those TV shows, he's like, I have to tell people everything. I'm using the cadre of things that I'm using because that transition is happening. And most people that can afford a 15, 20 million dollars house, they're also using AI in their business as well. Right. So it's really what I think you're going to see, Daniel. And I think, you know, this is. It's going to be slow adoption. And then once it starts, because, you know, once one person's doing it and wins a listing because of it, what was that? What are you doing? Or someone does, someone is at dinner with another agent and instead of logging onto a computer, says, hold on a second, goes back, makes a phone call three minutes later and says, hey, I just put another offer in. Everyone's gonna be like, how did you do that? Right. And so it's just interesting to. I love this put. I need for me, this will be probably famous last words is I'm excited for all the AI. Right.
- [27:45]
A
Yeah, same.
- [27:46]
B
I'm excited that all this is happening. I mean, even. Last thing is even coming on this call. I use AI for my calendar. Like, voice pilot is also integrated into Ethica. So it told me, hey, five minutes before Judd, don't forget Daniel. And literally what it did that pulled you up told me everything about you, told me like, literally what kind of podcast you who you are. I could never do that without AI and it keeps me so incredibly efficient.
- [28:13]
A
Yeah, I guess that when you talk about the efficiency side of things, Citrini Research put out a report saying that they expect Realtor fee commissions to get compressed from 6% to 1% over the coming decade. And I would say that technology certainly makes it possible in such that agents will be doing less work on a per deal basis, and therefore they are willing to reduce the. The fee because it takes less from them to. To do a transaction. I don't know if you'll see Realtor earnings decline as a result of fee compression, which is the interesting part. What I think it'll end up happening is like, as it stands right now, you have like a huge Pareto principle where, you know, you've got, you mentioned like 70% of agents doing no deals. Agents who are doing no deals. Like, they probably will just stop trying realistically. And I think that, you know, data would tell me it's probably a really good thing that agents that don't do deals aren't in the industry because you don't want clients being represented by somebody who their last transaction was three years ago or whatever. Right. Like that, you know, that's not a good. That doesn't deliver Good outcomes to the consumer. Maybe we see some fee compression for the remaining agents, but, like, if you take the total addressable market of real estate deals in the US you carve off the bottom 70% who are doing no deals. You've got 30% of agents left. They're 80, maybe 2x more efficient because they're using AI and maybe fees compress, you know, a little bit as a result, they're actually going to end up making more money, probably. Right. I think. I don't know, because I think this is something I think about a lot.
- [29:51]
B
Yeah, me too. And so couple things on that. So you just hit on a hot button for me. I don't think so. And when I say that, it's a very high statement. You know, that agent you talked about hasn't done the deal in three years. AI will make sure that agent looks like it did a deal yesterday. So, like, something like my tool, like my programmers say to me all the time, judd, if someone did a deal for the last 30 years or did a deal never for the last week, it's going to look the same to the listing or buyer's agent. And I'm like, that is interesting. If you think about that same thing with Tesla. You're driving a car. You're having all of the other people that have driven that car. And that road, it knows how to drive, right? And so first thing is, those 70% that aren't doing deals, AI makes them stronger and better, just from a knowledge standpoint, but the compression. I think if an agent does the right thing, I think they're going to make more money. And I'll tell you why, Daniel. You can find your own home. You go on Zillow, Redfin, you find the home you love. But then what? Right? Then what? You're gonna knock at someone's door? No. You call a professional and the professional says, I know the area. There's a lot of noise down the street. Or I know, like, that is huge where AI cannot help. So I think that. I don't think it's about the how much work an agent does. It's how good they are at what they do. Right? And so let me make sure that makes sense. I call an agent because when I look at a house, I want a professional telling me when it was sold, why it sold, why is someone moving. Right? The truth of give me the property. What's happening around here? AI can only give me so much. It can give me a comp. It can give me as a consumer. So for me, the Agents that are embracing AI, I think they're going to make more money. To your point, I think the better ones will be more efficient, making more and more cash.
- [31:51]
A
Yeah, I would say, I guess like the people who are not doing deals or doing few deals probably have another job. And so they. And they, and they, I guess like you. You know, you also mentioned earlier that the more you use it, like it becomes a bit of a flywheel, right. Because it self improves. You add context, you add inference, and it will help you in future iterations of using the technology. So people who aren't using the technology a lot probably aren't going to get that advantage. I think it's really fascinating. Is there any.
- [32:21]
B
Daniel, hold on. Just to cut you off for a sec. Remember something like a voice pilot, it's not just learning from Daniel, right? It's learning Daniel's preferences and inferences, but it's also giving Jessica that never had a deal, it knows what the better agents are doing. So when Jessica's going through it, because it's agentic, it's acting like a broker, it's saying, jessica, listen, I saw you put this down. What words we use now, it's standard operating practice is to use this. And so remember, we're trying to pull everybody up. Listen, some agents don't like that. Like, where's my competitive look? You're competitive to be the best marketer you can be, not to fill out forms. Right. And plus, wouldn't you rather have a better offer from a agent than actually get it?
- [33:08]
A
Right? Yeah. What do you. What like from, like, what's the tech stack look like? Is it like a. Like, is it like OpenAI whisper on the way in and then basically into.
- [33:18]
B
So you're talking about.
- [33:19]
A
I don't want to make you reveal. Reveal too much of the secret sauce.
- [33:22]
B
But yeah, so there is, put it this way, and this is what I was told to say by my co founder, Jay Shaw, and I can get you on another podcast and he can, he can give you all of it, but we're using the latest and the greatest. And so the good thing about what we're using is it's not our technology. Like, I'm not going against Claude or OpenAI on their tech. I'm utilizing their tech. So everything, like there's three different, four different tech stacks. One is the, of course, Daniel, the back and forth, right? That, that voice AI and then there's the actual inference and data. And then there's also where we're grabbing the information. So remember, it's not just using AI. We have APIs into all the forms. All the MLS is a lot of the title companies, so we're pulling all things in and aggregating them in milliseconds. Absolute milliseconds. I'll give you a great example. If you put an offer in on a house and you put in Daniel, but that house is owned by Daniel. And you know, or trust Daniel Trust llc. Voicepilot knows that. Right? There is no fixing this in title later. So, you know, I know you didn't ask that, but we're utilizing all different APIs as well. All aggregating all the. All the different data within real estate.
- [34:30]
A
Interesting.
- [34:31]
B
It's cool, man.
- [34:32]
A
Yeah, it is cool. Yeah. No, I, I've been like. We've been really on the forefront of this, this, like, stuff here in Canada as well. And, and getting some, like, we have a bunch of people on our wait list in the U.S. you know, functionally, like a. A tool call or like orchestrator for things like what you're doing. So like almost like an open claw for realtors. I mean, open claw is basically the. The code that made it possible for us to take it to the next level.
- [34:54]
B
Same. Same.
- [34:56]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess, like, closing thoughts because I want to be mindful of your time here. What. Is there anything that, that any question that you wish I asked you or anything that you. That you kind of wanted to. To leave the audience with?
- [35:08]
B
Yeah. You know, this is what I'll say. It's. It's a. It's a public safety announcement. Right. I always say this to everybody looking at AI if you're going to utilize AI for your business as, you know, make sure it's built for your business. Right. Like ours and yours probably built specifically for real estate. And it's designed to help agents work faster and with less direction. And so the only question didn't ask is when will it be available in the whole United States? So everyone keeps asking, when can I get it? When can I get it? Yeah, starting in California. Right. And so we're getting it right in California, and then we're going to the five largest states and, you know, maybe we in Canada soon too. I don't know, Daniel. Maybe you can invite me up there and we'll. We'll figure it out. Open Canada.
- [35:49]
A
Yeah, no, I'd love to. I'd love to have a chat off the pod to discuss sort of how we could collaborate. I think that'd be awesome.
- [35:57]
B
Yeah, I do appreciate, and I always appreciate guys like you that are on the forefront actually asking the real questions and really genuinely interested and inquisitive about like the new. Because everyone needs to hear about this. It's just one of these things. And you said something interesting before, Daniel, that I'll, that I really agree with. People will start using it and if they don't, they're going to be left behind. It's like anything else. You have to embrace technology or else technology will not embrace you. And it's one of these things where if ethics can do one thing. And by the way, we give this out for free to member benefit through car. Like this is. We're giving this to agents. We really want agents to use this. You know this, Daniel. Best thing is agents are horrible at grabbing technology and putting in their workflow. That's all we want. Just try this in your workflow. That's my parting statement.
- [36:48]
A
Yeah, A hundred percent. Yeah. No, I would encourage anybody to like, I found that, you know, as a, as an agent, I try not to do much like realtor work, but, you know, I do end up getting realtor work as a co owner of a brokerage and I try and bring in like agents from my office to do it. But the one thing that AI has really done for me is I used to be like, I used to dread certain tasks, like something like an offer would come across my desk. And now I get excited to see whether or not I can get AI to do the job for me, you know, and so I think, think that that's like I would encourage people, if they can, to really try and approach things that way. Like everything, if there's a task that you're rolling your eyes or like putting off because you don't want to do it, like, let's, you know, let's see if you can automate that task. Honestly, like, that's where that's where we're at in the transaction. You have to push these things to the limit if you really want to progress.
- [37:36]
B
You know what? Amen. I do that in the company too. I always say to people before you work four hours, if Claude can help out with that. Right? We all have bots as well. Right? We all have. Of our assistance and say give it to your assistant, see what he or she can do. Right. Or it can do. Yeah, agreed, Daniel. Agreed. And anyway, this was awesome.
- [37:55]
A
I appreciate the 100%, man. Yeah, me too, dude. It was awesome. I feel like you and I could nerd out on this stuff for a while. So we'll have to have some, some future conversations. On it.
- [38:03]
B
I would love it. Cool.
- [38:04]
A
Yeah. Thanks a lot for your time, man. Anybody listening? I encourage you to reach out to Judd or check out the links in the description. And if people want to reach out to you, like, where. Where would you like them to like? Is there a preferred message?
- [38:14]
B
Yeah, website. Just heyethica.com like, literally, we have videos on there. You can sign up for the product anywhere you are on the country or other country, and you get on the waiting list if we're not there.
- [38:24]
A
Amazing. Thanks, brother. Have a good one.
- [38:26]
B
Thanks, Daniel. Appreciate you, man.