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- [00:01]
Dave
All right, welcome back to Real Estate Without Borders. And this episode, we've swapped out Daniel for beautiful Sam Gordon, who in my opinion is one of the coolest and best developers in Tulum. May I say, great guy, personal friend. It's cool to see what he's done here in Tulum. And. And I think what we're going to do on today's episode is just take you through investing in Tulum. Who's investing here? Why to invest here, what to invest in here. And you're going to get it from someone that's actually putting a lot of time and a lot of money into. Into Mexico and we'll just kind of. Yeah. How long you been living in Tulum now? Well, introduce yourself first of all. Who. Who are you? Sam, Give people. Who.
- [00:40]
Sam Gordon
Okay, I'm Sam Gordon. I've been in Tulum around nine years. Coming up to nine years. Feels like it's been nine years for a long time. So some people comment, but I am the developer, founder of Khan Tulum. Khan tulum is a 42 unit project which is very well known in Tulum as a wellness kind of condo, hotel style, very good restaurant. And I'm moving into many other projects at the same time. So that's basically what I do here. I do a lot of community work and I've seen seen this place grow from 6,000 people up to 65,000 people now and the progress going up to 300,000 by the end of 2030. We've got a lot of work to do. Yeah, I feel like. I feel like a bit of an OG here. I've been here and seen many people come and go, but now I've kind of stuck around.
- [01:32]
Dave
That's cool. For those of you that I'll give Sam a plug, if you're coming to Tulum to visit, I highly recommend checking out Cannes Hotel. It is like all my videos that get the most views are because I go to Cannes and check it out. It's like one of the most architecturally beautiful buildings in Tulum and I think we won't dive into it too much because I know you'll talk for four hours about it. Sam is big into sustainability and I think a lot of the feedback that I get when I post about Tulum, which I'm already off script, but me and Sam would never stay on script here. One of the things that the feedback and the pushback I get from investors in Tulum is like, you know, not taking care of the jungle or maybe not like being as sustainable as we could be or environmentally friendly. But his Instagram handle is sustainable. Sam so cares about the environment, builds with that in his mind, which is really, really cool and very unique. But let's. Okay, let's jump into this. I want to start by talking about this Bloomberg video because I know that everyone that's watching this has seen this Bloomberg video. There's a Bloomberg video that went around and I got sent it by like literally every single client I have and probably YouTube. Basically it's a video of a female who said two things happened that I want to cover with a conversation with you. One, she bought a project and it didn't finish. And two, she's just not seeing the ROI on the short term rental side like she was during the pandemic. So you actually told me this and I think it's the coolest thing. First of all, what's your opinion on this article? And like, you know, how can people, as a developer, because you're an experienced developer, how can people avoid falling into that trap of buying something that won't get complete? There's risks and everything, but how can they best minimize their risk when they're buying a pre sale building?
- [03:09]
Sam Gordon
Okay, so I've got two approaches on this. I've got the approach from the foreign investor because I'm a foreign investor myself and I've also got the developer approach. Now it's the first thing I'll say. I feel incredibly sorry for the people that do get screwed here. It's a really sad reality that people do lose their money, but it's happening everywhere in the world. You know, it's one of my, my partners on one of my companies, he's, he lost money on a development in Liverpool in England. So it's, it's in the same sort of scenario to the Bloomberg sort of development. So it does happen everywhere. We're more in the limelight here. First of all, that's something that, that should be noted and we're a smaller place. Therefore when it does happen is noted, we're very much in the limelight and it's noted by the public very, very quickly. Now Bloomberg jumped on this documentary. Now for me, I can pull this documentary apart, right. And the reason I can pull it, yeah, the reason I can pull it apart is, is due diligence. Who was this woman? Sawyer. Really?
- [04:12]
Dave
That's true.
- [04:13]
Sam Gordon
I mean if, if it was just about the roi, okay, the mates we've got, we're, we're in a low market right now. The world unfortunately, if America catches cold or Canada catches A cold. Mexico catches the flu a little bit.
- [04:23]
Dave
That's just how it is.
- [04:24]
Sam Gordon
We rely heavily on the tourism of those two countries as, as you would, you know. So yes, and there has been a lot of building when you, when you go through a, a growing city, the, the stages, the stages you'll get, you'll get too much on the market and then not enough on the market. Too much on the market. And that's, that's natural when it' but agreed, whoever was this lady's lawyer, you got to ask the questions because not doing the due diligence into just simply owning the land, who owns the land to me is wild. You know, how did it get that far? How did that slip through the cracks that they did not, they did not actually physically own the land it was built on. And number two, and this is a lot of people fall into this trap and that's funding. And you know, being open and honest. I have worked on pre sale previously but my project sold. So I got lucky and it didn't drop in a, it didn't drop into a bad time. People working on the pre sale model now need to have full funding. If they don't have full funding behind them and it's a condo development, they're always going to ask for trouble because the minute they engage in a contract, accept a sale, accept that money and then start using that money to build, they're liable to get the whole building built in their timescales. Now if the rest of the building doesn't sell, or at least 60% of it, they're not going to finish. It's really that simple. So if I'm an investor, I'd be asking those questions. I'd be asking, do you own the land? And sounds almost bizarre, right? Do you own, do you own the land? Are you fully licensed and.
- [05:53]
Dave
Right.
- [05:54]
Sam Gordon
And where's your backup funding? You know, it is okay to build from pre sale, but you need backup funding. Especially if you sign into an agreement, you need to be able to achieve that agreement.
- [06:05]
Dave
Right. So there's two questions. The big takeaway is when you're purchasing here have your lawyer or whatever, your legal representative, there's two main questions you need to ask to really mitigate any sort of risk. Is one of the developers actually own the land that they're selling to you and to do they have funding or at least backup funding to fund the project, build to completion. Correct.
- [06:24]
Sam Gordon
Exactly that, exactly. And use the community as well. Ask around, make sure they're a reputable developer, make sure they've been here a while. You know, there is developers here. Like there is everywhere in the world to buy a piece of land. They might be over in Russia, Canada and Canada and they've never visited, they just bought the land and they're trying to employ people from far that will never work, you know, so you just need to do your due diligence, do personal due diligence. Not just lawyers due diligence. Start asking around. There's a great community here, a great community that don't want to see investors getting screwed everywhere. So we want to have a good reputation because it affects all of our businesses.
- [07:02]
Dave
I agree. I think, I think it's weird because when, and I see this a lot on my side as like the real estate side. It's like when people are buying in Tulum for whatever reason, when they buy here, they do like zero due diligence and they just expect everything's going to be good to go, which is strange. But when they buy in Canada or the U.S. it's like they do all these steps of due diligence. It's crazy. They run numbers, they do all these things, but here they just buy based off of like price alone and expect it to be a. Okay. It's like, you know, you still have to do due diligence, just like as if you're buying anywhere in the world. And then the second part to that before we move on is the ROI numbers. I think people I see complaint online or the Bloomberg article talks about how the ROI was much higher during the pandemic obviously. And now maybe there's due to like, maybe oversaturation or due to whatever reasons people leaving, the ROI is, is less. It's like what's your take on that? Because for me, I mean they were on a rocket ship and a lot of people made a lot of money in Tulum and they still complain. It's like it's really unrealistic to expect a hundred to one hundred to $200,000 purchase to, you know, make you rich in terms of real estate.
- [08:11]
Sam Gordon
Yeah. This is the, the age old story of people that expectation. There was a time when Tulum was. There was such just simply wasn't enough on the market. You could not fail as a developer. You could, you could not fail on the rentals because there was more people visiting and there wasn't enough properties here. So it's really that simple now obviously because it's a growing city and we're in a market where there's been an awful lot of building. People say over Building. Yeah, there's a lot of crap buildings out there because you're going to get that anyway. But it's not overbuilding because we're gonna, we're going to go through this new stage again when there's not enough on the market. But because of this stage where we're at now, which is super important to know, we're at a stage where I believe we're coming out of now, where there was too much on the market. All the developers have stopped building those studios. They stopped because they don't sell. So guess what's going to happen? It's going to flip again. So we just have to wait. Will it be as good as before? Who knows? You know, we need, we need a lot more people to come.
- [09:08]
Dave
The, the.
- [09:09]
Sam Gordon
The new infrastructure and stuff that Tulum has, the airport, the train, et cetera. We are expecting a bit big influx. The infrastructure is improving day by day. We're seeing changes here. It is slower than other cities. You know, it's Mexico. You know, things, things do get done, but they do get done a little bit slower. And, and, and, and we're growing. I mean, this is a, you know, having a positive light on it. I do believe we're going to switch around again. I do believe we're going to see those ROIs again. But when they flip again, you know, make Hayward sunshine. And that's my. That's probably the, the, the moral of the story here is I agree. And then don't be disappointed when you have a couple of years where it goes a little bit sour. That's.
- [09:50]
Dave
That is property market investing. Yeah, it's true. It's the same in Canada. Like, look, we're seeing a down market in Canada. We're seeing down markets in Miami, Austin, Texas, Louisiana, all of Phoenix, actually. And then when it happens here, people are like, oh, it's Mexico. It's like, well, it's also happening in your own backyard. It's just because of Mexico. It's easy to, like, poke fun at. But on that. Okay, where, where? Because I'm. Well, both of us obviously are super bull. Like, we bullish and we believe in the future of Tulum. Where do you see Tulum in the next, like three to five years?
- [10:20]
Sam Gordon
Okay, yeah, Tulum's at crossroads. There's no, there's no getting away from that. It's going to evolve into something uniquely its own. This is what I'm excited about. Some people are saying, is it going to go along the Miami route? Is it going to go along a different route? You know, you do have that Miami crowd come in. Is it going? I think it's going to be a bit of a hybrid, and that's what's going to keep the Tulum magic. I think the developers that are sticking with the Tulum style, I think they're going to be incredibly successful. I think that. Because I really feel that that magic will still be here. Will there be? When you. When you're triple the size of a city or quadruple the size of a city, you're going to get all walks of life, period.
- [11:04]
Dave
Of course.
- [11:05]
Sam Gordon
But I. I do really, really believe with this whole conscious living, the style of the buildings, the. The type of people that arrived to Tulum is. Is it. It's a certain breed, and it's. It's attracting from all over the world now.
- [11:19]
Dave
I agree. Yeah, I know. I think. You know what's crazy, I remember, because. We'll talk about this in a minute. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but the cool thing was Tulum was kind of known for, like, a party city, you know, and it still does have that aspect to it a little bit, but it's changing so fast. Like, there's a lot of families here, and I'll touch on it later with you because I know you have a daughter and another one on the way. So it's like, there are a lot of families here, and it's a livable city for people with families, for a lot of reasons. But. Okay, I agree. I think. I think Tulum, where I see it, the next three to five years, I think it's going to be. Because right now what's happening is a lot of people are unhappy in the United States. A lot of people are unhappy in Canada. A lot of Canadians are selling real estate in places where they used to travel as snowboards. Like, a lot of Canadians are getting out of Florida. They're coming. They can't afford LA, LA. Is too expensive. They can't afford Costa Rica. Right. And even the Americans that are maybe, you know, East Coast, American, New York or Chicago, they own property in Florida, Miami, but they're also pulling out because of different air, different reasons. And what's next is Mexico, honestly. So I think in the next three to five years, Tulum is going to be a genuine, like, worldwide destination. It's just going to take time to get there. And I love when people talk poorly about Tulum because it's like, it's going to change. It just takes time. You can't snap your fingers and be done. And I think you own a restaurant also, so maybe you can talk about this. But I think Tulum is kind of heading in towards like a foodie destination a little bit. Yeah.
- [12:48]
Sam Gordon
I mean it's community based design. That's what Tulum is. You know, it's not just about coming here to sleep, eat and drink. It's all about connection. The co working spaces. There's so many wellness hubs. I'm excited to actually start to bring things in, like kids play zones and stuff as we start to see more families. There is so, so much opportunity here that we go to another city and we just take for granted. It's something that I'm actually looking into. Just the kids play zone.
- [13:13]
Dave
Right.
- [13:13]
Sam Gordon
We've got a lot of parks and stuff like that, but you imagine a soft play. We don't have anything like that. All this sort of stuff will be coming and it would just be the, the infrastructure would just be there for a bit more for families. My family lives here and we, we love it. We love it. You have to search it. You have to dig a little bit. You can't be as lazy as just going, oh, we're going to the mall and everything's there. Right. You have to travel around a little bit. But it's a small place.
- [13:37]
Dave
I agree.
- [13:37]
Sam Gordon
And, and everyone here is, it's just a different type of people. You know, everyone's used to this sort of lifestyle. It's a little bit slower and it's a nicer place to be. And I say the wellness community is wonderful. The part, the party community is great, but it's. I see Tulum going more along the wellness, the, like the community based design, community driven projects. There's a lot of that coming through.
- [14:02]
Dave
I think like the community here is very special. Like you said. I, I had two friends, actually three friends from Canada, all females, all single female travelers coming to Tulum. One had lived in Colombia for the previous winter, came here and she was like, honestly, it's, it's the community that holds you here because everyone is so friendly. The friend group, friend groups grow like every day, which is, someone comes here and everyone's like, oh, you, you're not from here. Well, do you want to come hang out with us? Want to go for dinner? Do you want to? Like, the community here is so welcoming and everyone's so friendly. It's really like a huge part of it. And yeah, I could talk about that forever, but I won't. But okay, I want to, I want to dive into like the roi Just a bit for the investors, not necessarily the numbers, because I'm kind of curious. More, more so along the lines of, like you did mention, there's a, there's a lot of building happening. But I think what you could probably touch on the best is that like, maybe it's not the highest quality building. Maybe there's, there's not so much of that. But are short term rentals still a thing? Are we still seeing people come and being successful with Airbnb?
- [15:04]
Sam Gordon
A hundred percent. We are, 100%. So it's all to do with how you manage your property, period. That's it. There's a lot of people that arrive, they spend $150,000 on, on a unit, they don't know how to manage it. They don't know how to do it. They gave it to. I always, I always kind of joke about this, but it's. When you're on the, when you, when you're, when you're investing in the stock market, you get yourself a someone that you can work with. You interview them, you check that they're, you know, someone who's good at trading.
- [15:32]
Dave
Sure.
- [15:32]
Sam Gordon
Here you buy, you spend 150 to a million dollars and then give it to some kid from Playa del Carmen to look after. You know, it makes, it just makes no sense. You know, if you're not in the industry, find someone who really is. Get a good property manager, interview them properly, understand what they've previously done. It's the same as when you're buying, understand what you're buying. And the same when it comes to the rentals. Make sure, see the track record, see what they're doing. There are a lot of companies out there that are doing okay. A lot of companies did do very well in from 2019 to 2021. So they do have a good reputation because of that time. But they're struggling now. So it is a little bit more challenging than just simply finding out if they own the land.
- [16:16]
Dave
Right. Right.
- [16:18]
Sam Gordon
But if you get the correct property manager or you manage it yourself and you know how to manage it.
- [16:23]
Dave
Agreed.
- [16:24]
Sam Gordon
My advice to anyone is just, yeah, the ROIs are there. Just know how to manage your property. Know how. And, and if you don't know 100 how to manage your property, know how to manage the manager, big time. You know, that's it. Don't just, you know, throw it to someone and hope it's going to work, because it won't.
- [16:42]
Dave
It's so true. Like I, I make this a comment a lot to people. It's it's when you're getting into an Airbnb unit, whether it's in Tulum, Miami, Austin, Texas, anywhere in Florida, whatever. You're getting into hospitality. And it's like I see people make the mistake of like you said, they buy their unit for 2,300k, which is a lot of money. They go and they hire some subpar property manager that was just the first person on Google, no interview, whatever. Then they go to find and they don't want to spend any more money so they don't spend anything on furniture or photo or photos. So it's like you have a great property with a subpar property manager, subpar furniture, subpar photos and no video. And it's like you just expect it to do well. It's never going to happen in any market anywhere, globally, ever. It's like, yeah, yeah.
- [17:25]
Sam Gordon
I mean I think a big part of it was from say from 2019 to 2021. They were doing well. Even if you didn't care, it was so it's almost like we've been spoiled. So we weren't in a reality. Right. So we're in a reality. It is our reality that we're the same as everywhere else in the world. Right. There is great opportunity here if it's managed correctly, period. That's it. So my, my, my, my direct answer, short term rentals, that model, I think managed correctly. There's no reason why you can't get your 8 to 10% if you manage it correctly.
- [17:58]
Dave
I agree.
- [17:59]
Sam Gordon
And, and then just hope for the good times, you know, like, like all of us, we, we're market dependent. This is real estate.
- [18:05]
Dave
That's right. No, you're 100% right. Okay. What I want to talk about, like who's buying in Tulum? Because on other episodes we, we've talked about like investing all over the world really. We talk about investing in like Europe and, and different spots around the world really. And it's like, who, who's buying in Tulum? Like who do you see? For me, it's like I deal with mostly Canadians, Americans, like the odd European. Is that kind of what you're seeing as well?
- [18:29]
Sam Gordon
I mean, I mean in the early days when I was here, it was very much digital nomads, the short term flippers.
- [18:35]
Dave
Yeah.
- [18:35]
Sam Gordon
Now we're starting to see like more families, wellness entrepreneurs. But there's a lot of people who are actually looking to live here full time as well. It's a lot of relocation, as I say, because the city is expanding. So we are starting to See, that bloom is unique. It offers something completely different from Plato, Carmen and Cancun. And it attracts a completely unique crowd as a demographic. Obviously Americans, just by pure volume, are always still going to be our number one market. And then Canadians second to that because of proximity and ease of travel. But the European market is very much emerging and coming and coming here a lot at the moment. And we're seeing in the hotel in particular, we're seeing guests coming in from a lot of guests from India, a lot from Dubai. So it's very amazing. This year has been a very, very interesting year. We've even had people in from Japan, quite a few as well. Yeah. Apparently Khan is a little bit famous over in Japan. I don't know how it's amazing what social media does. Maybe some of Japanese stayed here. The last Japanese is a Japanese lady I spoke to. She said, oh yeah, Khan. Everyone knows Khan in, in Japan and.
- [19:38]
Dave
Cool.
- [19:39]
Sam Gordon
Do we never advertise there?
- [19:41]
Dave
No, that's, that's true. We saw the girl. I saw a girl at Tulum. Well, we saw a guy today who was from LA living here full time, moving here, relocated here. I saw another girl at Tulum Fight club when we were Bo, who's from Japan, moved here, which is really cool. But yeah, I think you mentioned something about Playa del Carmen in Cancun and I think you're right. They're all great individual cities. So a lot of people ask me, like, where should I invest? You know, should I invest in Tulum or Playa del Carmen or Cancun? And it's like, it's more personal preference of what you like and it's. They all offer different things. I think Tulum is just so unique and I think it attracts such a unique like person. You either come here and you like, you love Tulum and you're a die hard Tulum fan or like, you like Playa del Carmen. But I mean, there's pros and cons to both, I guess, and then there's the other people.
- [20:25]
Sam Gordon
And this is quite interesting. When I first built Khan, being into sustainability and everything, I wanted to attract a certain crowd and, and then I realized that that crowd is like, it's like the same people each time, you know?
- [20:36]
Dave
Right.
- [20:38]
Sam Gordon
And they don't need educated in this. They don't need to see the, the good stuff that we should be doing. So I, I then realized that it would be really nice to attract the people, the big city dwellers that don't necessarily know anything about sustainability. Don't really, because it's not in their face. I didn't until I arrived here, I was living in London. I didn't, I didn't have really any impact in the sustainable sort of world at all.
- [20:59]
Dave
Right.
- [21:00]
Sam Gordon
So what I do, what I am seeing actually is people arriving here, they might come on vacation and they see something else. So it isn't. Although it is a certain type of people, there's a lot of people that arrive and change into that person, which is. And that's not just the people going out, buying a. Buying a hat and a cape and Illuminati. That happens too. I mean I, I did that and I've never left it, but I get it. But I'm a veteran at that, so I'm allowed.
- [21:29]
Dave
That's right. You're an og. Cool. What, what? Because we've, so we've talked about, like, who's buying here, families are coming here. Does that, does that change? Like, does that change what type of properties are you're seeing more success with? Like, what type of properties right now? I mean, I think it's kind of hard to say, paint it all with the same brush. But is there a specific property type that is maybe performing better than others or like, maybe more desirable to an extent with certain things?
- [22:00]
Sam Gordon
There's some great properties here. There's no two ways about it. And some do outperform others. I still put it down to management. Yeah, it's always management and it's the most challenging thing because of the new licensing laws. The poor management companies out there, you know, done with my properties is turned them into. This particular one is a condo hotel that's run as a hotel and then it doesn't compete in the market of Airbnb, essentially. You know, so, right. It's it. What are the correct type of properties? What are the properties that we're seeing are doing well at the moment? Villas seem to do very well. Not. You're not your half a million dollar villa kind of if you're getting into the million mark. Those guys are doing well because of the type of clientele that are coming.
- [22:45]
Dave
Yeah.
- [22:46]
Sam Gordon
And they, they. I don't believe they're going to be touched because there's not enough of them on the market. You know, that's a, that's a reality. Studios are crashing and falling at the moment because there were so many built a little story. There was not one studio on the market when I designed Khan. Not one.
- [23:01]
Dave
That's crazy.
- [23:01]
Sam Gordon
So when I first designed the first, first phase of Khan, there was not one studio available.
- [23:06]
Dave
Crazy.
- [23:07]
Sam Gordon
That's why I decided to do studios here. Studio struggle. We don't necessarily struggle here because of the, the management. Even in bad times, it completely breaks even, which is in rough times, breaking even's a win.
- [23:22]
Dave
I think it's cool for, for you. I think like what a good takeaway for people is that like he keeps mentioning management. It's so important. Like for example, can does well because it's managed by one company. Correct you, right? Yes. Can is always throwing events, encouraging high occupancy rates. Do every day you go to Cannes, there's something new. There's a restaurant on site, there's a cafe on site. There's lots to do for kids, lots to do for families, there's always events. And when there's more events at a certain place, obviously that increases occupancy. So there's like one thing I wanted to mention and to like recap that is you can. Because a lot of realtors say don't, don't buy small units. It's like, well, I do know some small units that actually perform really well. It's not about spending more, it's just about buying the right product that's managed properly, like you said. And it's like. And as well because can is managed properly and there's lots of things. Imagine a 100 unit building that's all managed by 70 different management companies. It's like everyone's just kind of setting their own little price point and it's a race to the bottom, right? And there's no community events, whereas can has community events, which I think is really, really cool. But there's lots of great units. It just depends on who manages your unit. I agree 100% it does.
- [24:31]
Sam Gordon
And you mentioned a few really important points there. But it's, it's management, it's amenities. You know, the amenities are so important for people, how they're manage. The other thing that I want to brush on actually is so many investors come here and expect they're going to buy a property and then it's going to make a ton of money in the first year. Like any property or any business, because essentially it's a business. You're in the hospitality business, right?
- [24:56]
Dave
100%.
- [24:58]
Sam Gordon
What do you normally do? You normally look and say, okay, five years until a business starts to really start to perform, you know, and that's, you know, one advantage I've got of KAHN right now. Because we've been, we've been around a while and with we're now. Yeah, we had the rush in 2019 and to 2021, as I say. But, but now we're, and then we went into the development stage, everything slowed down because we, we built phase two and the restaurant and stuff and, but now we're starting because of the reputation, because of the good reviews, because it's a build up, it's a process. And that's, that goes for anyone, even with a studio unit, you know, and they're putting it onto Airbnb. It's a process. Don't expect to throw it on and make loads of money overnight. You have to become reputable, you have to have, create good service. And because there is, there's a lot on the market that you're up against and yeah, it's really as simple as that. Manage it correctly and, and have realistic expectations on this. That's probably my advice.
- [25:55]
Dave
I think the one thing you mentioned that I forgot to talk about was like that the luxury properties are doing decently well. And it's, it's interesting because the luxury properties do well across like it's, it's because I've been doing this podcast and like analyzing different markets around the entire world. We see the same trends everywhere, you know, and the one trend that we see often is that the luxury market always seems to like kind of hold steady. Just because I think the type of person that's able to afford a million dollar villa, cash means they have a million dollars liquid available. They're usually a very high net worth individual. And the higher net worth individuals are less affected by like the day to day stuff. Whereas when I say day to day, I mean like tariffs and elections and all those kind of things, seasons, trends, whatever. The, the more I'll say average investor or a first time investor, someone that's buying their first maybe international property, they're significantly more affected by all these things I just talked about. So it's like that market waivers so much more than the luxury market because those people are just a little bit less affected. Okay, I want to talk about safety only because I hate talking about this, but it's probably the second most thing that I get asked on my Instagram or Tick Tock or Instagram.
- [27:04]
Sam Gordon
And it's completely normal because Mexico's been completely demonized. And yeah, if you have a K.
- [27:09]
Dave
Kid, you have a little daughter and you know, you live here willingly.
- [27:13]
Sam Gordon
I won't, I won't walk around London, Toronto, New York. I won't walk around them at night. Here I walk around them with my, my four year old without even thinking about it. Three, four in the morning, I would, you know, no problem. Yeah, I've never, never seen an issue of someone getting mugged. I've never seen an issue of anyone being approached in a bad manner. Yes, I've heard of problems and people being shot, not tourists. A few years ago there was a shooting, which was a problem. And obviously we had the chief of police killed recently, which we'll brush on in a second because it's really important we brush on that. And then the one that went viral, the guy in Starbucks that was killed in Starbucks. No, Shot in broad daylight in Starbucks. And they said the media claimed that they were trying to steal his watch. If you watch the security cameras, the guy who was sat there had an armed bodyguard with him who rolled on the side and started shooting back. You're in the business. You're in the game, you know, you don't go around with an armed bodyguard here unless you're in some sort of business.
- [28:15]
Dave
Simple as that, for sure.
- [28:17]
Sam Gordon
Number one. Number two, you know, every time there is something that happens here, it's. It's always away from the public eye. Very rare is it in the public eye. And you'll hear, we hear a rumor that there was a body found or something happening. And I always think maybe it is getting a bit sketchy. Maybe there is something bad happening. And then to make myself feel better, I just Google shootings in Chicago today or shootings in New York today or shooting shootings in Toronto. It's crazy and it will blow your mind. It completely blows them out the water. Now I want to touch on this. The chief of police being shot, and there is certainly some sort of corruption involved there. But the same day he was shot, there was some, like, highly graded police officer in. In California that was also killed. I'll send you the article. Actually, he was killed on a drug raid. It happens, you know, it happens. It's unfortunate. Do we know the real reasons why he was shot? No, we don't. Was there some sort of corruption on the back end? We don't know. Will we know? No, we never. We never know. But were we all in danger? Okay, I know people who heard the gunshots that live by, live very close to where it happened. And they've been. They've lived in Tulum for years and they were super scared. What does that tell you? That it's not a regular occurrence.
- [29:41]
Dave
Right.
- [29:41]
Sam Gordon
You know, they heard gunshots and it was panic. Everyone around there was panicked.
- [29:45]
Dave
Right, right, right.
- [29:46]
Sam Gordon
Because it. No one. No one's ever got used to it because it doesn't happen. You know, I've never seen a problem ever.
- [29:52]
Dave
I'm the same. I know people that have had their watches stolen in Toronto, you know, I know people that have gotten, you know, robbed. And I had my personal. I had my Range Rover stolen in Toronto. It's like, genuinely feels very, very safe here. My fiance walks around with her friends to go to Pilates, whatever. Your. Your wife and my fiance are friends. They go and do their things, you know, and it's never a problem. I don't think she's ever felt unsafe. I think it's true. Whenever I get. Usually it's. Americans will bring up the safety in Tulum, and it's like, I always see where their number is from. I look up their city, and then I'll just send them a list of, like the 10 shootings that happened last night versus the one three months ago in Tulum. And it's like. You know what I mean?
- [30:29]
Sam Gordon
I. I probably shouldn't say this online, but I'm awful at locking my house and my car because I've got so used to. It's never a problem. I just don't lock anything. I never do.
- [30:40]
Dave
I know.
- [30:41]
Sam Gordon
Yeah. So. But it's. So how do I feel about safety? Safer than anywhere I've ever lived. And I've lived in many places in the world.
- [30:48]
Dave
I've left my. I've left my keys in my front door, like in. Outside. In the door lock. Like, left them there overnight, multiple times, and never, never an issue, which is.
- [30:58]
Sam Gordon
I just feel like the problems here are really petty. You know, our boxing club the other day is like, petty crying. The guy. Guy climbs over a boxing club, leaves his. Leaves his croc behind, steals some boxing shoes and a speaker. You know, it's that sort of crime. It's. It doesn't feel like it's that deep, you know? Yes. Is there a drug problem here? Is the cartel problem in high season? And guess why? Because of all the tourists coming in trying to buy them. Of course. Drug dealers will come from all over the world because it's high season.
- [31:27]
Dave
True.
- [31:28]
Sam Gordon
You know, I heard last year there was Venezuelan, Colombian cartels and all sorts. You know, it wasn't just Mexican cartels selling drugs. It was. They come in from everywhere because it turns into a party zone. That happens everywhere. That happens absolutely everywhere.
- [31:43]
Dave
True.
- [31:43]
Sam Gordon
You know, so, yeah, oh, there's drugs. People offering drugs. Stop buying them.
- [31:48]
Dave
Right. True.
- [31:52]
Sam Gordon
Really? That's the sale and demand. It's like any business, you know, what about.
- [31:56]
Dave
What about, okay, I want to Touch on just one thing because I know funny enough, a lot of my clients are looking to retire, moving to Tulum. And they either have kids themselves that are maybe a little bit older, or more importantly, they have grandkids, you know, that they want to bring to their villa, their condo, whatever. And they're, they're wondering about, you know, what it's like to having kids here. What are some things that kids can do? Because I know you mentioned as of right now, there's maybe not that much, but like you have a daughter here. What's, what's like what like the schools like, what's, what's healthcare like? Someone that like, what advice would you give someone that has a family that would be relocating to Tulum? What's some like little tips?
- [32:31]
Sam Gordon
First of all, for me, it's, you know, my daughter grows up, up kind of barefoot.
- [32:35]
Dave
Yeah.
- [32:36]
Sam Gordon
She's four years old, she speaks two languages.
- [32:39]
Dave
Crazy.
- [32:39]
Sam Gordon
She's. She's playing in cenotes and on the beach rather than on an iPad every day. You know, that's. That, that's it. You know that. So how is it for families, young families that are growing? I, I think it's one of the best places in the world. I, I'm a big advocate for it because I'm doing it and this is where I'm choosing to bring my children up for these reasons. And I see, I see friends, family, children. You know, the iPads become a normal thing. We've never bought an iPad for my daughter. We don't. And I'm not anti screens in any way. You know, I'm not that guy that's like, oh, you can't watch a screen.
- [33:18]
Dave
Don't watch.
- [33:18]
Sam Gordon
You can't watch it. I'm not that guy. We're not, we don't bring our daughter up in that way. We live very freely to. Okay, if she wants to watch a movie, she can watch a movie. Be. We. It's certainly not a, a thing in her life where she's like, ah, she needs, needs to have a screen. So to me that's a huge, huge thing because I see other places.
- [33:40]
Dave
He'S very happy. Just everybody knows this kid is like, she's just the happiest kid obviously life. And what, what kid wouldn't like life on the. Every weekend she's at the beach? Like, it's just amazing. But sorry, go on.
- [33:50]
Sam Gordon
Yeah, I mean I think the, the thing to think about, people thinking about relocating here. Know that you'll find your tribe. That's a really important thing. You know, there is a, there is several different groups. You'll find your people for sure. There, there's incredible alternative schools. I'm not so keen on a couple of schools. There is schools that are being built now. There is a German, there's a German school in Bay of Principe which is what Tulum Country Club, as it's now called, which has just done really well in the Real Madrid cup. That is with this, with soccer. Said it's a good sports program grounds. It's all kind of emerging now and it's coming up nature based curriculums which I'm all about. I love them. I think they're fantastic. A lot of conscious parents.
- [34:32]
Dave
Cool.
- [34:32]
Sam Gordon
Yeah. Tulum's a lifestyle. It really is. And it's a, it's. It's a choice to adapt to that lifestyle. It will become incredibly healthy for anyone choosing to do it as well.
- [34:43]
Dave
Cool. Let me. Before I want to hear more about. I know you have some big things coming up and I'm super excited about it on the real estate side. This means I get to sell some really, you know, really cool stuff coming up here. And tell, tell me a little bit about like what you're doing over the next couple years here. What are some big projects you have coming up that people can look forward to and like what to look out for that, that you're developing. Because I think after this episode people will maybe gravitate towards. Can gravitate towards seeing what you're doing because you do do really cool things. You know, you build unique, you build sustainable. But tell us a little bit about what's. What Sam's got going on over the next little bit here.
- [35:15]
Sam Gordon
Here.
- [35:16]
Dave
Can you hear me? I got out there.
- [35:18]
Sam Gordon
Yeah, you. You cut out your. There you go. There's one of the Tulum. Tulum issues you might have to deal with sometimes.
- [35:25]
Dave
My door is closed. So the Internet doesn't work apparently. Yeah, the wind blew. The wind blew the Starlink thing a little bit to the right. Now it doesn't work. But tell me, tell me about what you got going on because I think people will gravitate towards seeing what, you know, seeing what, what can's all about. Listening to this and seeing how you know how great of things you're doing. What is Sam focusing on over the next three to five years that people can look forward to and maybe check out.
- [35:51]
Sam Gordon
My market's changing quite a lot. I still have stuff at Kahn that's available I'm working on now and I plan to grow Kaan and expand the brand I've just launched into a new project called Iktan. Initially selling lots and I've started designing villas for this project. It's located very close to the beach in South Tulum. We've actually just bought South Tulum.com, which is an interesting move. It's South Tulum is kind of a market of all the high end hotels created this area and it's, you know, it's just created by them and then they name their self South Tulum and it's what's behind the beach road. So the. Behind the beach road we in South Tulum we have a project called iktan. 98 Lots, great amenities, most beautiful cenote and I'll be designing and building villas in there. There's some other projects that I'm working on as well.
- [36:46]
Dave
That location you're talking about. Sorry, the, the. What's that location called? People can look it up on a map.
- [36:51]
Sam Gordon
The location itself is actually called Soi Tulum. However, it's. It's such a new area. I don't know what maps you'll find Soi Tulum on but if you're to look up iktantaloom.com, you'll see exactly where the area is or the Owen, which is a previous project I've worked on and designed stuff in. What else do I have going on? I was approached very recently about a big art collecting company and merging architecture and art together. Something that is. I'll be looking to do and pair up with some named artists to create incredible architectural experiences. Other than that, just trying to box against you every morning.
- [37:28]
Dave
I guess I fly home.
- [37:30]
Sam Gordon
You're trying to stay alive I think is probably the best comment there.
- [37:34]
Dave
I was going to say we, me and Sam, we've known each other for some time. I really genuinely think what he's doing is different and I like, like, I like people that do different and I think it's very noticeable. And when you build high quality in Tulum and you have all the right recipes, build high quality, build unique and have good management, it's like really just such a good investment. I know you got some really cool projects on the go coming up, which I'm super excited for. But yeah, and we box together every morning and Sam is. Sam was a very strong man, let's put it that way. So my nose I think is crooked now thanks to you from this morning.
- [38:05]
Sam Gordon
Yeah, I don't think I have any ribs left after this morning. But we don't need to go into that. That.
- [38:10]
Dave
Yeah, I Look man, I, I, I appreciate you coming on here. Honestly. If anyone's listening and you're thinking about, thinking about coming to Tulum, you got to check out can hotel like I'm telling you. Just look it up on Google, you'll see why you'd want to stay there. Really, really cool. And if you have any questions, Sam, where can people find you maybe to like reach out on social media?
- [38:29]
Sam Gordon
Sustainable, sustainable SAM 7. That's my personal social media. And then Khan Tulum. Yeah. As I say, it's, it's an honor to have any of of Dave's guests come and see us, come and stay with us. Especially if, if Dave is David's touring you, even if it's on another product, you're more than welcome to come and be with us here.
- [38:48]
Dave
So that's cool. I appreciate it man. So thanks for listening everybody. I appreciate it. If you like what you're listening to, hit the subscribe button. Follow us on social media, send it to your friends. If you're a real estate developer for somewhere in the world and you want to jump on the podcast, we'd love to talk to you. You send it to your mom, send it to your friends, help spread the show. We appreciate it and thanks Sam for having us. Let me interview you here and I'll see you tonight. Actually.
- [39:12]
Sam Gordon
Yeah. What great questions as well. So I've done a lot of these and this is particularly good. So thank you, Dave.
- [39:19]
Dave
Thanks brother. Okay, see you.
- [39:20]
Sam Gordon
Take care. Bye.