← Real Estate Without Borders
Real Estate Without Borders
The Surprising Shift: Why Africa's Real Estate Boom Is Changing Globally
00:35:03
Loading summary
Transcript66 lines
- [00:02]
A
All right, welcome back to the Real Estate Without Borders podcast. Joined here today by an exciting guest. Talking about some markets that have been of interest to me. But we, you know, it's very difficult to find people to, to talk about. So Billy, can you give me a little bit of a background on yourself, who you are, what you do and what we're, what we're going to be talking about today?
- [00:26]
B
Certainly. So my name is Billy Kofo. I serve as vice president of global growth and member success at leading real estate companies of the world. I've been with the company for, well, October will be my eighth year with the network. Thank you. I started out in a different industry, crossed over in real estate right In, I think 2014 is when I started out as an agent and kind of worked my way through operations at a brokerage and essentially now working for leading re. I oversee our Canadian members, our French speaking members in Europe and all of our members in Africa. And so I think today's conversation is just kind of talking about some of those markets opportunities, things that people perhaps should know about before venturing in those markets. Right. And maybe perhaps a little bit of a takeaways there. So.
- [01:24]
A
Yeah, so let's start at like the high level on that. Like you work in, in Canada and in Africa, which I think it, you know, interesting because like two markets that are both driven by population growth but from very different reason reasons. Right. Like Canada mostly, I mean very little natural population growth and mostly from immigration. But then Africa is, is basically the only. I think it's Africa and a little bit of the Middle east are like the only countries in the world that actually are seeing a repl in their, in their birth rates, which is something we talk about a lot on the show. And it's always, you know, it's always been an intriguing market from that perspective is like, well, if population growth is what's driving real estate growth in some of these countries is that, does that make it a very interesting market to invest in? So what are the biggest like cross border real estate trends that you're seeing right now as somebody who, who interacts with a handful of different markets?
- [02:19]
B
That's a, that's a great question. I will say probably right now you see a lot of people thinking about retirements and looking to allocate their retirement resources to markets where you will get a much better, you know, for all intents and purposes, much better quality of life at a lower price than you would in a normal markets or mature markets like you know, US Canada or even Europe. To some extent. Right. So, um, a concrete example is there's a lot of retirement, you know, opportunity. A lot of people retiring in countries like Mauritius. Now, until a couple years ago, that was not even in my radar. But you go visit the country and you figure out that there's a lot of, you know, people that are going in and, you know, you get a much better quality of life there. All the savings that you had from your retirement funds, you know, here in the US or even in Canada, you can certainly use them there. So I think you're seeing a lot of that. I like to piggyback on something you just said about the, the population growth because I don't know that people realize just how much that is also a driver of opportunities. Right? So. And especially sub Sahara. Sahara Africa, right?
- [03:35]
A
Yeah.
- [03:35]
B
Northern. Maybe not so much, but like you go south of the equator and this is where you start seeing some demographic projections really talk, you know, speaking to that. And so naturally, when you have a population growth in the future that's scaling rapidly, well, everything will change, right? The use of technology, the use of infrastructure, the need for infrastructure, which naturally will flow into real estate as well. And so, you know, when you think about future opportunities, future growth, future markets, Africa now is becoming one of those not so much talked about countries, you know, places before, but now a lot of people are looking at that because there's a lot of opportunities. So to your questions, you know, retirement is what I'm seeing happening right now and yeah, just different type of investment happening as well. But also the demand, you know, investment into markets that naturally wouldn't, wouldn't take up people before, especially in Africa, it's starting to become very prominent.
- [04:37]
A
So yeah, it's, it's interesting. Like I've heard of Mauritius quite a bit, but I had never really like looked at it. And now that you're mentioning it, you know, I've like pulled it up on my, on my screen and I mean some of the visuals are just beautiful, right?
- [04:51]
B
Like it looks like it's an unfair, it's so unfair. I think once you go visit, right, I think you will get a very distinct understanding as to why people love to go there. But you know, the demand is being driven, right? Essentially the interest and people certainly who have the capital, the retirement opportunities to go in the market, like Mauritius. But you have to also remember that it's very small in terms of a market as well. So the size is small. And so the bigger question is in the future, can Mauritius keep handling such a strong interest going Forward, which will affect its infrastructure as well. So that's a whole new conversation, maybe a different podcast to be had at some point, right?
- [05:36]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, I guess, is that a concern for a lot of the markets like you're discussing that they end up with? I mean, even Canada, we haven't had an example where population outgrew infrastructure. Now they've clamp down on population growth to let housing and healthcare and all these things catch up. Right. Like, is that, that's something that probably people are thinking about, right?
- [06:00]
B
Yeah, they are. And, and so, you know, market has to be in some, some of equilibrium to be able to absorb that type of interest and investment. Right. So you can't make the claim that you open, right? And when you start seeing numbers coming in and then kind of reverse course and say, well, wait a minute, yes, you can still buy, but like you don't have access to all these amenities that you thought you had access to right away. And so especially in destinations, markets, Mauritius being one example, there's a couple others, you have to be very careful. Right. And so, yes, it's great to have capital coming in and certainly when tourism is the number one, know, one of the few industry kind of leading that, those kind of interest initially, you get that influx, but can you actually sustain it? Right. And so that's on, on the receiving end, a lot of those countries, a lot of those markets have having perhaps a come to Jesus moment where it's like, well, we maybe we need to revisit this, right? Because it was great before and certainly we get initial interest, but can we actually sustain this long term?
- [07:07]
A
So, yeah, no, it's an excellent point. I think it's, it's a balancing act, right, Because a lot of countries, I mean, when you're getting so much interest from us, where people are looking to explore alternative citizenship options, I mean, other countries where people, you know, are thinking about more affordable places to retire. How do you know you want to seize the moment, but you want to do it without ruining it to, you know, tarnish the brand long term. The. When you, when we talk about like international investors looking beyond the usual places, you know, there are a couple that come to mind, but like, you know, Mauritius isn't one of them. As an example, like, what are the hotspots that you're seeing people interested in or that you would like to put on their radar if, you know, if you know, for people who are looking for that kind of thing?
- [07:58]
B
Yeah, I, I will say, you know, and I think you will sense a theme here because I think most of my in the last couple years I've really, you know, been focusing on Africa. So I would say yeah, you know, keep an eye out for Kenya.
- [08:12]
A
Okay.
- [08:13]
B
Interestingly enough, you know, it's starting to gain prominence. Right. South Africa is usually a safe bet, Right. Especially in, you know, either Johannesburg or you can go to the Capes. Right. And there's always market of interest. I think Ghana and Nigeria are probably other places that I will strongly keep a close eye on just because of all other countries they seem to be good in terms of not just investment opportunities, but the actual opportunity themselves that they present. And so those are just key highlights.
- [08:50]
A
When you say actual opportunity, you mean economically, jobs, economic growth, et cetera. These are the two ways that we think about investing in countries outside of the US Would be are they going to grow from a population perspective and are they going to grow from an economic perspective? Right.
- [09:09]
B
A little bit of both. Right. So both of them will experience some population growth which will naturally drive growth in infrastructure, maybe investment opportunities. Right. But I think if you just want to take a close example, right. Rental, you know, you look at rental and you know, if you're an investors and you're looking at potentially purchasing like a building, you know, with a bunch of condos that you're trying to rent, well, the rental yields in those markets tend to be very high. Right. So from an investment perspective, you know, and the type of yields that you, you're getting there are much higher than something that you will have in the United States. Right. Or I will argue, even something that you have in, in Canada. Right. Or even mature, you know, in other mature markets. Right. So the opportunity is definitely there. And I think one of the things that people need to be conscientious of, which we could talk maybe at some point in this conversation is. But that's a longer term horizon, right. So you have to balance that out with what about actually seeking to accomplish, right. Do I want high return, but I don't want to spend too much time there or you know, what's the trade off for me? And so when you think about markets in Africa, some of them are much more efficient than others, I will say, but generally speaking, that's a longer term horizon. So as a business person established in the US or even in Canada, looking at some of those frontier markets which are not, I would argue they're no longer frontier because they're up and coming and they're thriving, but it's still very much a longer term horizon. Right. Are you there for the long run or are you just looking for a quick investment kind of get out scheme? And my argument has been, you know, probably will continue to be in the long term that you know, your strategy has to be very long term focus for those markets.
- [11:00]
A
Yeah. I mean I think that real estate as an asset class really demands that anyways. Right. Like, you know, it's, it's, you can't really.
- [11:07]
B
Yeah.
- [11:08]
A
You can't really be trying to get into this business for, for a quick, you know, at least if you're trying to do maybe a flip or a bur or something like that, it's maybe a bit of a different story because.
- [11:20]
B
Right.
- [11:20]
A
You know that, that would be a job. Right. Like you'd be kind of doing the job of, of flipping the property or whatever. But if you're thinking investment, you want to have a capital relationship with the property, your, your hold horizon does have to be long. Like they're expensive to acquire, they're expensive to switch. You know, so we, yeah, we typically like we're always advising people like assume a minimum 10 year hold on these things that you're buying. Right.
- [11:43]
B
Yeah. And the, the challenge with a place like Africa, so historically has been stigmatized. Right. And, and, and you know, and I don't mean this in, in sort of a, you know, I'm not trying to put down the, the continent, but I think naturally when presenting an option. Right. So if I came to you, Daniel, and I say I have an investment opportunity in the Riviera in south of France. Right.
- [12:07]
A
Yeah.
- [12:07]
B
Your ears parked up. Maybe the same type of return. But if I mention it's in Abuja. Right, Right. Or you know, it, it's in, you know, Ken Shasa and a Democratic Republic of Congo. I could see people going, well, yeah, I don't know. Right. And the numbers may align the same or you may see, you know, higher value in, you know, in, in Africa than you would, you would in the French Riviera. But for some reason that's, you know, stigma has always kind of, you know, been there for Africa, which I think that's maybe one of the first hurdle.
- [12:45]
A
Yeah.
- [12:45]
B
That we have to deal with. And then now it's, I think it's starting to kind of go away because once people travel there, once they see the opportunity themselves, it's a whole new perspective.
- [12:54]
A
So. Well, I think another component to that is that, and we, if we try and analyze like why people are thinking about getting alternative citizenships and things like that, it's because they're not happy with the politics in their country and a lot of the problems that people that would probably get grouped into the stigma that you're describing around Africa. Like, you know, I think people think similarly to like Central America, safety issues, policy issues around land titles. So like as an example, can I trust that the land registry system is going to protect my asset the same way that a western economy would? But then you go look at what's happening in, in places where people are, where these exoduses are happening, people wanting to move, leave places like Canada or the U.S. or Europe. And they're doing it because they're now experiencing the same things there. They're experiencing safety concerns or concerns about government intervention in their asset that they perceived as a safe haven. So it does make like, you know, the relative marketability of a property in some of these markets where they're like, oh, well, if, if like the government can just take my land away from me in Canada, then I might as well go buy a place where I'm going to get a way better return. And I'm also exposed to the same risk. Right. So that, that piece is interesting. It's like the stigma also changes relative to other, other places.
- [14:17]
B
That's a really good point. Yeah. And so, you know, and usually I think it changes, it will change for the better in the years to come. Right. Because, you know, we don't have to worry about, you know, you can find, you know, the, the chain of title here is very simple. Like you do a search, it's like, hey, Bill Yukofa owns this property. You know, Dana owns his property. Right. But in markets where this wasn't the case before, you know, that was a problem. Well, yeah, now it's being, it's resolved and now it's becoming even more efficient. Right. The chain of title exists, so that concern is now being removed or at least being addressed very efficiently. Well, what's the, what's the hold up at this point? Right? Everything constant, much higher return. It makes perfect financial sense to look at opportunities there now.
- [15:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, 100% completely agree. Talk to me a little bit about Canada because I know you, like you work in the Canadian market quite a bit like obviously massive changes in Canada in over the last couple of years and it's. Canada and Mexico are the two markets in which it's most common for US investor to purchase property. How would you think about Canada compared to, you know, five or 10 years ago?
- [15:35]
B
That's a great question. I will say, you know, there's a couple things that probably change the way you look at Canada now, so from a foreign sort of investor perspective. Right. So you have to keep in mind that Canada had, still has a foreign buyer band. Right?
- [15:54]
A
Yeah.
- [15:54]
B
And so what, what it was before, it's still, you know, it's still played. So the nature of opportunities to some extent have been limited. Now it's my understanding that there's still opportunities to be had. You just have to be very, you know, various students to where you find them. They, you know, the residential part of it. Right. If you want to buy there, there's some limitations. But like I would say markets, you know, destinations market, I think, you know, Victoria comes in, in, you know, to me, like, you can still buy there. And so, you know, the ban happened. Yes. Did it limit some opportunities for investment? Yes. But can you still find opportunities there? Yes. Like commercial space seem to be also very much open to foreign investments. Right. And so, so I don't know that it drastically changed in terms of where it was before. There's just been, call it like a blip, where it's like, oh, what do we do now? But can we still find opportunities there? Yes. And my argument is you always want to find someone there that you trust that's competent enough to understand the nuances between the markets to be able to advise you accordingly.
- [17:10]
A
And is that like, is that what you do? Like, do you work as a real estate professional helping people trade properties in Canada, or is it more like a network thing?
- [17:20]
B
Like, yeah, I, I don't, I don't sell myself. I'm still licensed. I don't sell. Leading real estate companies in the world, you know, one of the primary core value proposition that we offer to our members who happens to be real estate brokerages, is the opportunity for them to look at, you know, doing referrals, either inter markets cross, you know, provincial, especially in Canada and globally. Right. So the core value proposition, if you, Daniel, were to own a brokerage in, let's just say in Toronto.
- [17:53]
A
I do, actually. So, yeah, there you go.
- [17:56]
B
There you go. Right. And so if at some point you were to say, how do we expand our value proposition as a brokerage to our clients to say, we can serve you in a GTA just fine, but we want to be your real estate company of choice when it comes to your real estate needs beyond our market. Right. So if you're looking to buy Whistler, can you still come to me, Daniel, and say, daniel, I'm looking to buy in Whistler, can you assist me? Right. Usually what happened historically is this is where the conversation stopped. For agents where they'll say, well, I don't, I can't help you. And so the value proposition here is no, I want you to be that trusted advisor to see like you want to buy and you know, in the gta, fine, but you're looking by Worcester still come to me through the network, we can assist you. And that's across Canada, across the world. That's the value proposition there.
- [18:52]
A
So my team, I'll need to chat with you after because I actually need that service. I'll get into it a bit after the show. But we send referrals all over the country in Canada and outside. So I'll have to, I'll have to chat. I'm probably, probably a pretty good candidate for using your services.
- [19:10]
B
There you go. So that's, that's really the core value proposition. Right. So not just in, across the, across the globe for our members. So whether you based in Canada, U.S. you know, Mexico City, you know, even Paris, that's the message that we want to convey. The core message we want to convey. Right.
- [19:29]
A
Nice. Cool. Very cool. When you're talking about like French speaking countries, which is sort of like your other niche I think, right. What are the, what are the important like considerations and like, I mean it's different probably from a business perspective, from a cultural perspective, like if you're advising somebody to, who's thinking about buying in one of those countries, be it where you mentioned maybe in the south France before or maybe a French colony in Africa, like what do people need to think about in that regard?
- [20:00]
B
A couple things I would say. So if you're looking at French speaking Europe and I'm going to use France as perhaps the target market, right. I think you need to understand that France has a lot more, I wouldn't call them restrictions but really just rules around what's the word I'm looking for? The environmental impact. Right. So you look at Paris, Paris is a very old city, very old building. Right. The some neighborhoods are really, you know, when you think about typical Parisian neighborhood, it's old buildings, right. That, you know, if you're looking to buy, you have to understand that certain amenities, while they may be present, may not be available. So if you.
- [20:47]
A
Yeah.
- [20:47]
B
For example, one of the things that are happening right now is the temperature is quite high. Like, you know, the, the weather is a bit unbearable right now and some of those buildings don't have air conditioning.
- [20:59]
A
Right.
- [20:59]
B
We're talking about Paris. Right. So if you look in Dubai and Paris and you're like, well, I love being in the, you know, in Center Town where it's happening. But my building is old and historic and they won't allow air conditioning. Am I okay with it? Right. So environmental concerns is very, you know, it's something that I would say in the French market is very much something that they care for.
- [21:22]
A
Yeah.
- [21:22]
B
That they necessarily probably won't care or at least pay too much attention to in some other markets. So just be aware of that in, you know, French speaking Africa, or Africa in general. It's, it's really, you know, each market is very different. Right. In terms of the opportunities they provide. And just I think people should realize that, you know, Western amenities, while they might be present, they may not be as available as you will find in, you know, your home country. Like if you're a Canadian or even an American and you say you want to buy in, you know, let's say Nakra. Right. Yeah. There's opportunities there, but other things are surrounding that opportunities. Right. It's maybe the road access is not the same that you will have in the 401. Right. Or, you know, Interstate 95 going south
- [22:16]
A
here in the U.S. no Uber Eats, no Walmart. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:21]
B
And then so there are, you know, and so people should just be aware that, you know, the asset that you're looking to purchase, like if it's residential, may be similar than what you're accustomed to, but it's not just the asset that you're purchasing. You looking at an entire lifestyle and amenities that you need to be comfortable with because, you know, you're not just living in the asset alone. You're making uses of other opportunities around, you know, the city, the neighborhood, access to medical care. And so all those things come into play. I will say probably, you know, before people make those kind of decisions, like there's a whole lot of study that needs to happen before, you know. And so the asset, you know, the real estate assets is the entry point. What else? How is my life going to change? How's my business going to change? Right. If I were to make a certain move in those region and am I comfortable with it, can I absorb that kind of risk for myself or can my business absorb those kind of risks as well? Yeah, that's Billy's perspective.
- [23:27]
A
Yeah, 100%. No, I appreciate that insight. It's funny you mentioned the air conditioning thing because there's a huge debate happening on, on like Twitter right now about air conditioning. And like, it's like, you know, should it, like, should European countries just get air conditioning? Like, is it really that Bad for the environment. And I think, you know, it's a. It's an interesting thing because, like, there's a lot of deaths, I think, in Europe as a result of people of heat. People dying of heat in their houses. Right. It's like, well, you know, yeah, there's a solution for that.
- [23:58]
B
But see, this is a mature market. Like, who would have thought, right? So, you know, I mean, you purchase a, you know, luxury villa in, I don't know, in, in Nigeria, it's kind of standard. It's like, hey, you know, it's pretty hot here. You need like air conditioning unit. Right, right. And so the same, you know, people. It's not to say that the business, the builders or the real estate practitioners in those countries don't care. It's just, you know, what rules over environmental impact in those countries are very different in the way they approach it. Right. France is more. We need to conserve, you know, what we have. The historical things that we have, we don't want to, you know, and they're very pro environmental, you know, impact. Like, we don't want to add to the environment. We don't want to, you know, do anything that will jeopardize the current state of our environment. And so there's certain things that we will be very restrictive on. Well, if you give that up, what is actually, what's the impact? Right. And so I think now they kind of having to deal with that, you know, in other markets, it may be completely. Something completely different, right?
- [25:06]
A
Yeah, for sure. The. In regards to like asset classes. So we've talked a little bit about geography, like in, in regards to asset classes, if you were to, you know, maybe go out five years, what. And we'll look at like, you know, residential, just general residential property, kind of commoditized, and then like luxury, residential, commercial, hospitality, mixed use. Like, what kind of opportunities do you see and sectors that you think are going to offer the most promise? In some of the markets we discussed,
- [25:41]
B
I think right now people should really look at either land or industrial. Right. And so not to say the other ones don't matter, but what I'm seeing is land and industrial. So land, because, you know, you need it just to kind of build the next level of infrastructure. But I say industrial because, you know, for logistical reasons. Right. There's a couple other, you know, there's places around the world that are opening up for, you know, logistically because there's going to be some transit happening there, but also data centers. It's a very interesting phenomenon happening to them. This is for us. With the proliferation of AI and its continued usage around the world right now, data centers are kind of taking a lot of real estate and there's a lot of deals, huge deals happening there. Now there's politics around data centers as well. You know, where you consider the impact on the environment or even restriction to accessible land to build housing. That's a completely different podcast altogether. But I think just from an investment perspective, people should, you know, if you're an investor and you're looking into, you know, where are the opportunities, you know, I will say right now, land acquisition is a big one. And anything that has to do with data centers, you know, if you have the opportunity to do that, to get involved and engage with it, definitely look into it.
- [27:17]
A
So. Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that. I'm a big land guy myself, actually, so I like that. I was looking at some land in Malawi actually, and we had a guest on the show who does. I should connect you with him, actually. He does a lot of property out there, I think pretty big in the Malawi real estate space. But they're like, we're talking about land registry systems. Like, you have to. They don't have a land registry or they don't have a predating land registry system. So, yeah, if you want to purchase a piece of land, it has to go through like a tribal council and then it gets added to a new land registry system that now exists. And you have to, to my understanding, you have to hire people to guard the land so that nobody can like encroach on it for a period of time. And then after that period of time, it's yours, which is really fascinating. So, I mean, there's like considerations like that. It's like, well, these are really dynamic real estate markets, right?
- [28:08]
B
Yeah. And then there's, I mean, Malawi and even some places in Kenya. Like, there is land available, prime land available. Right. So, you know, comparatively, I live in Northern Virginia, so close to Washington, D.C. right. And I used to live in a city called Ashburn, Virginia, which right now has about 200 plus data centers. So the conversation happening right there in Ashburn, Virginia right now is do we still have room to build residential homes? Because all that real estate has been taken over by data centers. Right?
- [28:46]
A
Yeah.
- [28:47]
B
And so now they start to look at different markets. Right. And so they're going a little bit west. Even places where, you know, five years ago nobody will think about or very few people who want the type of life around farmlands, we even consider that. And now that that's becoming A very interesting area for people to move from Ashburn a little bit more west because they recognize that the opportunity is there. Right. And so all those changes and so Africa right now, it's like you don't have to worry about those things because there's barely any data centers, but there's a ton of land. Right. But to your point, the land title, land transfer is not as immediate or as clean at times as you will see in markets here. So do I even want to venture there? Is it even worth the opportunity? Right. And so to circle back longer time horizon, understanding that those markets have the opportunity, but you just have to be very patient.
- [29:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, 100% if you want to
- [29:45]
B
do anything in there. So.
- [29:47]
A
Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate the insights. Yeah. I mean, I guess you get a deep discount to. For those, for those like headaches. So for the people willing to deal with the headaches, there's probably a, hopefully an amplified return as a result.
- [29:59]
B
Yeah.
- [30:00]
A
The last thing I want to ask you here for, like industry professionals, like, I think you work mostly with, you know, the real estate industry, brokers, developers, et cetera, people who are members of your network. Like, where are you seeing the biggest opportunities for people in the real estate space to collaborate across borders?
- [30:20]
B
Oh, that's a. Dana. That's a loaded question and I love it. I will say the biggest opportunity that I see, I want to take a different approach to it because right now I believe that your clients, like if I'm a real estate agent or even a brokerage, the client has different needs when it comes to real estate that transcends what we historically had to offer. Right. And so you want to buy a house, I can help you. But the needs of your clients and their access to information and even data to source out different type of deals globally is there. They just need now really globally connected trusted advisor. And I'm not just saying this because I'm in the space. It's what I'm noticing. Right. And I'll give you a concrete example. I was late earlier last year, I was in South Africa visiting one of our members there. And I was in a room with about 20 of their top agents in the company. And the CEO was there and just asked a question and say, how many of you had clients who bought outside of South Africa? Right. Either, well, outside of Johannesburg, either in different markets or, you know, outside of the country altogether. Without any hesitation, every single one of those of those top agents raised a hand. Yeah, that's the CEO was that. It was like, well, I think we missed an opportunity there. And having top agents realize that, why didn't reach out to me? Because I think we conditioned the clients to really just think about us for the specific market that we serve. We never conditioned them to think about us for really global opportunities looking at different markets. And so we are losing a new opportunity to service that need. And so now I believe that's becoming more and more prevalent in the service that we need to offer. So to answer your question, that's the opportunity that I see. Right. I'm no longer an agent based in Toronto or in Mississauga. While I'm here, I can service your real estate need in very different markets. I understand the trends, I understand where capital is moving and I can, you know, I'm not a total expert, but I can, I'm connected to the people that are. And we can service you. Right. So it's really raising the bar on the type of real estate agents you become. It's also raising the bar on the type of brokerage you're becoming as well. So that's the opportunity. How do we make sure that everybody in the real estate industry tap into that? And that's honestly, that's the crusade I'm on because I think that this is where the opportunity lies ahead, you know?
- [33:12]
A
Yeah, yeah, 100%. I couldn't agree more. And I think that as we're becoming an increasingly globally connected world and people are more mobile geographically than they've ever been, I mean, it's a no brainer for people who have the services in this industry to find other ways to serve their clients. So I couldn't agree. I mean, that's why we have this show. Right, Cool. Yeah, I'd love to have you back, like you mentioned a handful of times, other entire episodes that we could do. And obviously you really know your, you know, your stuff about markets that, you know, we seldom have the opportunity to find experts on. So, you know, if, if you'd be interested, we'd love to have you even as like a recurring guest to just talk about those markets and what's happening there. And is there anything that you want to leave the audience with before we wrap up here? Like, you know, where can people find you or anything else.
- [34:01]
B
Oh, well, thanks. No, it would be an honor to be back and certainly have conversations about, you know, opportunities that I'm seeing. In full disclosure, I'm not, I would say that I'm a total expert on certain markets. I just happen to be preview to something. Yeah, just preview to things that are happening which I think, you know, are very interesting and for people to know. Billy Ecofo is my handle on social media. Whether it's Facebook, LinkedIn or even Instagram, that's where I am. If you like pictures of kids and a little bit of real estate talks and, you know, me denigrating myself once in a while because, yeah, I tend to think of myself as a useful idiot at times. Feel free to follow. But I love real estate. I love global real estate. You know, my passion is helping people see opportunities and bring light to things that are normally not discovered. And so, yeah, love to continue the conversation.
- [34:58]
A
Awesome. Yeah, likewise. I appreciate you coming on.
- [35:01]
B
Will do. Thank you.