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- [00:00]
A
Donald Trump says that the US will sell a $5 million gold card to wealthy foreigners. In today's explosive episode, we are going to dive deep into a controversial proposal that is sending shockwaves throughout America's immigration landscape. President Trump has unveiled his latest headline grabbing plan, a $5 million gold card program named after the green card program targeting wealthy foreign nationals. What exactly is this golden ticket to America? Is this a game changer for U.S. immigration policy or just another political lightning rod? We're going to break down the details from CNN's coverage examining the implications, controversy and what this could mean for the future of American immigration, but also global immigration. And we're going to compare it to a handful of different golden visa programs around the world. So stay tuned as we unpack this developing story that's got everyone talking. And don't forget to like subscribe and hit the notification bell to stay updated on the latest developments as they relate to real estate.
- [01:00]
B
Amazing intro. And for context, let's look at the current EB5 immigrant investor programs. This visa program, the current one EB5 the visa program requires foreign investors to make a minimum investment of 800,000 in targeted employment areas. TEAs which I found out for you are like rural areas or areas with high, High unemployment or 1.05 million in non TEA Non Targeted Employment areas. The investment must create or preserve at least 10 full time jobs for US workers. So the program has undergone significant changes since its inception in 1990 with the most recent reforms implemented through the EB5's Reform and Integrity Act 2022. So these changes include increased investment amounts, stricter oversight measures and new integrity provisions to prevent fraud. So of this EB5, the key requirements of the program include investment amounts of 800,000 in non tea areas or 1.05 like I said non TEA job creation. It must create or preserve 10 full time jobs. The source of funds must prove lawful source of investment capital, active involvement investors must be engaged in management or policy formation. So Trump's proposed $5 million gold card would represent a significant departure from the current EB5 framework with a much higher investment threshold but potentially fewer restrictions and requirements.
- [02:38]
A
Interesting thoughts on this.
- [02:39]
B
Off the top that's going to. There's a lot of pros and cons. I think pros obviously what he's trying to do is bring in high net worth individuals globally. I think this is going to bother a lot of people. At the same time, I think it's going to be, there's going to be, it's going to Be like we just talked about off air, going to just be more divided. I think it's just creating more and more divide, but I don't know.
- [02:59]
A
Yeah, it's interesting because there was the whole H1B visa thing, I think, before the inauguration, but there was all of that stuff going on on Twitter around Trump and Elon's comments around the H1B visa, which is where bas a lot of engineers were coming from India basically to replace jobs that a lot of people felt should have been offered to U.S. engineers. And this is mostly in the software space.
- [03:27]
B
Right.
- [03:28]
A
I think it's interesting to me that Trump is evolving to be very much a pro immigration presidency. And he has his whole illegal immigration, deportation, et cetera. But then he has this. This thing that a lot of the Western world is using right now to grow their economies. Canada being a really notable example, but a lot of Europe as well, is many countries are basically using immigration to grow their population and using the population growth to grow their economy. It hasn't. I mean, the reviews of how it's working in other countries have been mixed, and I'll get to that a little bit. But the biggest reason for this is most countries basically outside of Africa have seen a decrease in their birth rate and an aging population. And so they have this thing called the replacement rate. You need all of these new young people to exist in the economy to pay for the pension obligations of the previous generation. And this is one of those things that's really being critically rethought outside of that, because we're going to talk a little bit about housing affordability worldwide in the next episode. But we did talk a lot about the aging populations in one of our last episodes about seniors and the best places to retire. Golden visa programs have become increasingly controversial worldwide, particularly in European countries. Two that we've mentioned on the show before, Portugal and Spain. Portugal recently ended their golden visa program in 2024 after mounting evidence showed its contribution to housing affordability crisis. For this one, it allowed people residency in exchange for real estate investments of €500,000. So basically, you go buy a house, you can become residency, and that basically skyrocketed. Yeah, well, house prices were lower at that point. And so you could get a lot of house in like Lisbon or Porto, which are beautiful port cities and made housing unaffordable for local residents. Spain had the same thing. They had a golden visa program, which was the same €500,000 property investment. And it's been criticized for creating artificial demand in luxury real estate markets, particularly in Barcelona and Madrid. And they've now responded by adding a second land transfer tax for foreign residents. Greece has a similar one with one of Europe's most affordable at €250,000, has led to substantial foreign investment. But again, rising housing costs, especially in Athens and the popular islands, you know, and it also probably led to yacht week taking place, which is, you know, who knows about. I was in Mykonos this summer, all the Mykonos people. It's just the whole country's overrun by influencers now. So what are you gonna do?
- [06:02]
B
That's right. That's why I was there. I had my DJI Osmos gadget film and everything. I was good to go.
- [06:08]
A
Yeah, there you go. Yeah. So there's a lot of criticisms. The most common criticisms that we see for golden visa programs like this, artificial inflation of property values, creation of ghost neighborhoods. Canada, this is really popular. Like where you see basically a lot of vacant real estate, where investment properties remain vacant. Displacement of local residents from urban centers close to jobs because they can't afford it because they're competing with wealthy foreigners. Money laundering concerns and the lack of proper vetting. These international examples provide a little bit of a context on why there could be negative impacts and criticisms on Trump's gold card in the U.S. particularly major metros, where housing affordability is already a big concern. And US Housing affordability is actually as bad as it was heading into the global financial crisis.
- [06:52]
B
Right. I wanted to add here, before we get too far away, about the replacement rate, I have some numbers for you that you might like.
- [06:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, hit me with the replacement rate, but also hit me with what you were. That math that you showed me on how many of these citizenships they would need to sell to.
- [07:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [07:07]
A
To balance the budget.
- [07:07]
B
First, I'll hit you with. I got you. I'll hit you with. By the way, I'm a big fan and one day Twitter is going to sponsor us. But Grok 3 is incredible. So, okay, it seems. Let's cover the fertility replacement rate. Okay. So in demographic terms, the replacement rate refers to the total fertility rate needed for a population to. To sustain itself without growing or shrinking, assuming no net migration. For most industrialized countries, including the U.S. this is approximately 2.1 children per person. This accounts for the fact that each person needs to give birth to a slightly more than two children to replace herself and her partner with the extra 0.1 covering infant mortality and other factors. As of the recent data, the US Total fertility rate is well below this replacement level in 2020. 3. The TFR was reported at about 1.62 births per person. So we're low. The rate has remained below 2.1 since the early 1970s, with a notable dip during the COVID pandemic, hitting 1.6 for in 2020. There you go, some facts for you. All right, let's, let's talk about, Let me see where I can bring this up here. Okay. Because I know that here it is. Perfect. So part of the reason that Trump is bringing in this golden gold card is to help battle national debt in the US so as of February 24, 2025, the US national debt's around 36.22 trillion t with a T trillion. Now, each gold card is bringing in $5 million. So to cover the 36.22 trillion, you divide that by the debt of the card, that would be roughly 7.24 million cards would erase national debt. Now, I don't know if 7.24 million cards is something that's going to happen. That's a lot of wealthy individuals. But I think Trump mentioned He expects around 1 million to be sold is his expectation. Yeah, I mean, I understand that reasoning.
- [09:21]
A
You know, so, yeah, I guess the question is, are there that many wealthy people? Like how many, how many people in the world have over $5 million? There's like as of December 2023, the stat that I'm looking at right now says 8.4 million people with a net worth of 5 million or more. And that's not 5 million liquid. Right. So, and it's not like somebody's going to spend all of their population or all, sorry, all of their money to, to go to the US So I would say probably selling a million of.
- [09:50]
B
Them is a stretch. But my, my thing was I was looking into the EB5 visa as well. Okay. And maybe I'm missing it and honestly, maybe you can fill me in on this, but the EB5 visa, that the main purpose was for, for people to invest in the US and also create jobs. I think as far as I'm aware, there are no requirements in terms of how many employees or anything other than really just a five million dollar investment to get that golden card. Whereas the EB really helped with creating jobs and that was actually a prerequisite of that EB5 visa. Right. I think he's assuming that with a $5 million investment that they're going to be bringing businesses here, going to be bringing on and opening companies and, and you know, allowing Americans to work for those companies. But I don't know if there's any actual regulation so far that's came into effect. Do you know of anything?
- [10:38]
A
No, but, I mean, in order for this to actually get passed as a bill, it would have to have some exceptions. Like, it's not just going to be like, hey, five million bucks, come on over. Right. Like, he can come up with all the ideas that he wants, but they all still have to get turned into policy. Right. And in that process, they add all of the bureaucratic elements that we described.
- [10:59]
B
Right. Okay, do you want to. Do you want to cover the five most affordable golden visa programs as of, like, 2025?
- [11:06]
A
Yeah. Yeah, let's do it.
- [11:08]
B
Okay.
- [11:09]
A
Yeah, you give me the five most affordable, and I'll go through the. The most expensive ones.
- [11:13]
B
All right, five most affordable golden visa programs as of 2025. We have, number one, Cambodia with a hundred thousand dollar investment. Next, number two, North Macedonia with a €200,000 real estate investment. Number three, Greece, with a €250,000 real estate investment. Number four, Turkey, with a 400,000 real estate investment. And number five, Latvia, with a €250,000 government bond investment. What does that mean, man?
- [11:51]
A
You have to buy government bonds? Basically. Basically, when you buy a government bond, it's like basically you're giving a mortgage to the government, Right? So you're giving them €250,000 and they will pay you an interest rate and then eventually return your money.
- [12:03]
B
Well, there you go.
- [12:04]
A
Let's jump to the five most expensive golden visa programs to see how the US stacks up as well. So Australia, 5 million Australian dollars, which is approximately $3.3 million. New Zealand, 3 million, which is 1.8 million USD. Singapore, 1.85 million USD. Monaco, 1 million bank deposit plus a property purchase. And the UK, 2 million pound investment. But the program is currently suspended and maybe worth looking at. What are the five most popular programs of this type for US Investors? Do you want to hit me with that?
- [12:39]
B
I would love to hit you with that one, man. Take it away.
- [12:42]
A
Five most popular programs for US investors. Portugal, even despite recent changes, the grandfathered applications continue. Malta, which we chatted a little bit about in the retirement episode, offers EU citizenship path pathway. Italy is attractive for cultural and lifestyle reasons as well as being affordable. I mean, Italy is basically in deflation because their population's been in decline due to aging population. If you want to get an understanding for what we're talking about, more on what an aging population looks like, Italy would be a really good example. Japan as well. Spain, popular obviously for its Quality of life and EU access as well as affordability to Negro growing in popularity due to low cost of living and potential EU membership. It's worth noting that a lot of these investment thresholds change pretty frequently and a lot of these are under fire right now. You want to consult a professional in this regard?
- [13:34]
B
I think if you can. I think we're missing Dubai.
- [13:37]
A
I got it in all the Dubai.
- [13:40]
B
No, I was giving you a softball just for you to take it away.
- [13:45]
A
Yeah, I mean Dubai is obviously an interesting case study in the Golden Visa landscape. While not traditionally categorized among either the most or least expensive programs, they do have a Golden Visa program that's been super popular. It's 2 million AED which is about 545,000 USD. So on the cheaper end, based on the lists that we just read for real estate investment, they have 10 year visas for investors and specialized talents and five year visas for properties valued at 5 million AED or more.
- [14:17]
B
And what is a specialized program?
- [14:20]
A
I guess like just a job. Yeah, exactly. Realtors mostly. Influencer.
- [14:25]
B
I was gonna say content creator. Influencer.
- [14:29]
A
Selling protein powder on Instagram, dude, stuff like that. Yeah.
- [14:34]
B
Tiktokers. I'm sold. I'll be in Dubai next, next week.
- [14:37]
A
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But it's an, it's the big one there is that people want to go there because it's tax free. Right. Which has made it really popular for high net worth individuals who can relocate their income streams to other jurisdictions. And I mean you are seeing a ton of people moving there right now. A lot of wealth going to Dubai.
- [14:56]
B
Yeah, I've heard some crazy stories about Dubai. I've actually never been and really would like to go. I've heard, I've heard the money there is insane and I'm, I'm so curious. I see a lot of tick tocks and Instagram stuff about like, you know, people leaving their, their car, their keys on like the hood of their Rolls Royce and then going for dinner, coming back and still there. Like I wonder if that's a real thing or if that's just like a pretend Instagram TikTok. All right, let's, let's, let's argue as friends here. I'll, I'll be give you the arguments in favor of the Golden Visa and you can give me the arguments against and I'll take it away. So here are some common arguments in favor of the Golden Visa program. Direct foreign investment. So these programs bring significant capital into the host country's economy, potentially funding development projects and infrastructure. You got Job creation investment requirements often lead to new business adventures or real estate developments that create employment opportunities for local residents. We have economic diversification. So wealthy immigrants often bring expertise, international connections and new business practices that can help diversify the local economy. You have the tax revenue so high net worth individuals contribute to the tax base through property taxes, business taxes and consumption. And then you have tourism boost. So golden visa holders often become ambassadors for their adopted country, encouraging tourism and business connections from their home countries. So the economic recovery tools. Several, several countries have have successfully used golden visa programs to help recover from economic crisis by attracting foreign investment when traditional sources of capital were limited. Lastly, we have the competitive advantage so countries with attractive golden visa programs can gain an edge in the global competition for talented and wealthy individuals who might contribute to to economic growth. Mic drop.
- [16:52]
A
Good summary. Yeah, I mean, it is interesting too because I think that, you know, you look at some of these other countries that are failing to attract global talent and seeing their populations decline and you wonder, you know, like the Chinas or Indias of the world, right, where it's really hard for them to attract talent from outside of those countries. And they always. But they never had to worry because they, their populations were growing before, but now that both of those countries have fallen below the replacement rate, as we mentioned earlier in the episode, you've got a bit of a problem on your hands.
- [17:23]
B
But see, I wonder the difference between having this gold card in the US and having like a golden visa in some of the countries we mentioned earlier. You know, like Cambodia and North Macedonia, Greece, Turkey. I think the people that are going to those countries are likely not going there to. And this is just a me speaking because I don't even know. But I would assume the people that are going there are more likely going, especially Greece, probably going to retire or wind down versus the people that would maybe be coming into the U.S. i feel like, would be coming here, baby, to get fired up, create a few businesses fired up. The American dream, baby.
- [18:01]
A
You know, I think you're right. I think you're right.
- [18:04]
B
Thanks, man.
- [18:07]
A
It isn't like it's. It's interesting though, right? You know, a lot of people say like America is the best place to make the money and Europe is the best place to spend it, right? It is. It's beautiful and chill over there, right?
- [18:18]
B
That's what I mean. Like, I think the people that come here are different.
- [18:22]
A
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I would say, like for sure, the visa programs for. I mean anybody that I know, like in the port Portugal visa, golden visa program. We're basically moving over there again, like just to chill, have a nice, like summer home, whatever.
- [18:36]
B
Right.
- [18:38]
A
Talking a little bit about, about countries like that and the ones that we mentioned before, kind of easy segue into the big arguments against golden visa programs. Right. The big one is that they distort housing markets. So you basically bring a bunch of wealthy buyers into the market which makes it harder for your local people to compete. That would make it more unaffordable, make housing more unaffordable for local residents, especially in urban areas. And like Portugal is a really good example. Portugal has seen the worst deterioration in housing affordability since 2015 in the world. Canada's number two. And the US is not, not doing well either. We're going to cover this in another episode, in our next episode. But those like that, that's bad. And that gives you a bit of social unrest. You can see it in Canada, right? Like in Canada people are so mad with the government because they can't afford anything. This really creates a bit of a social inequality in the country where you almost have a two tier immigration system that favors wealthy individuals over skilled workers or refugees, et cetera, who could contribute more meaningfully to society rather than just basically bringing their money there and paying for stuff. Although there was a recent stat, I think was it Wall Street Journal published it, that basically showed that like, I think over 50% of consumption is, is, comes from like the top 10% of yeah, US population. So you do need rich people there like buying stuff. They do contribute to the local economies, etc. You know, maybe they're hiring staff or drivers or you know, whatever. Right. They're buying, getting stuff, Amazon to their summer home or like all of that stuff adds up. Right?
- [20:30]
B
Right.
- [20:32]
A
There's obviously risk of security concerns when if money is the primary thing, you want to make sure that there's sufficient due diligence being done in vetting wealthy applications. Canada is probably a really good example of place that hasn't done this, where it seemed to have basically turned Canadian real estate into one of the most efficient places to launder money in the world. And so, you know, there is potential for programs like this to enable money laundering. Real estate's really efficient for laundering money. Like I'll just put that out there. Right. A lot of people use it to do that. And so allowing entry to individuals of any background just because they have money could, could kind of enable that to take place. You've also got economic displacement. So you know, you get wealthier people, gentrifying neighborhoods. They displace local businesses and residents from those neighborhoods because those people can no longer afford to be there. And that's, I don't, I mean, that would be generally considered a bad thing by most, most people, most observers. And the final piece is that, you know, it introduces a little bit of market volatility. You start depending on this. You know, you look at Spain or Portugal, right? Or Canada even, right. Like foreign investment sends the real estate market skyrocketing and then they remove it with a policy, Canada being like the non resident speculation tax. And then basically prices drop substantially. And so the, your, your local residents are really just along for the ride on that. And, and they're the ones who end up getting, you know, really getting smoked by those, those volatilities. Anything you want to add there? Before I go to ethical concerns, I.
- [22:19]
B
Wanted to add the, the number. So right now, 10, the, the top 10% of Americans by income account for approximately 50% of total consumer spending. So for example, the top 10% is, would be those earning roughly above 150, 000 annually depending on the year and adjustments. But breaking it down further, the top 20% of income earners, typically households earning above a hundred thousand to like 120, contribute to around 38 to 40% of total consumer spending, while the bottom 20%, often earning less than 25 to 30,000, account for just 9 to 10% of consumer spending. Just so you have some hard numbers there.
- [22:59]
A
Yeah. So I guess if you've ever been curious as to why the government cares so much about catering to rich people, this is why. Right. You know why, why if people are ever like, why is the economy designed to support rich people? Well, they basically prop up the entire economy. Is that a good thing? No. Is it happening? Yeah. And so like, it doesn't surprise me. There's the chart there.
- [23:28]
B
Yeah, there it is.
- [23:29]
A
Top 10% of earners now account for half of all spending.
- [23:33]
B
Crazy.
- [23:34]
A
Yeah. It's madness. I mean, the crazy part is like, if you go back in history and not to get too far from the, you know, the, the core message here, but if you go back, usually periods of significant disparity like this end in revolution, right? Like they end with. As you get more and more people pushed into a poorer portion of the population, and you have fewer and fewer people pushed into a wealthier group of population, eventually you have outnumbered poor people with nothing to lose who basically do a violent, like they do a violent takeover of the, of the rich people. Yeah. Happens. It's like it's happened. There's a whole podcast on it called Revolutions by a guy's name's Mike Duncan. It's like one of the best podcasters ever. And Duncan, I had to Google that. Yeah, it's. Dude, if you ever get the chance to listen to Revolutions, it's an epic, epic podcast called Evolutions. Revolutions. It's about Revolutions, obviously.
- [24:40]
B
That makes sense. Okay, I'm gonna listen to that one, man. So you want me to highlight some of the key points here? Like, I think we, we covered a lot of, of the gold card and, and I think we covered both sides in terms of like, you know, the pros and the cons. And I'm actually curious to see what, I'm curious to see like what the, the, the, the reaction we get from this episode is and what people's opinion on this is. Because I think, again, like we mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I think people are super divided, you know, and I'm curious, I think the country of the US Is divided enough right now, you know, and now we're throwing this in there, which is another thing.
- [25:22]
A
But yeah, like, what's that?
- [25:26]
B
No, I think off topic a little bit too. Like, I. So I'm in Mexico right now, and since the election, people just assume I'm American. I'm not, I'm Canadian. But here in Mexico, they see me and they think I'm American. So I've noticed significant uptick and tick tock hate since the election.
- [25:45]
A
Really?
- [25:46]
B
Oh, my God. Yeah. I have to believe myself.
- [25:49]
A
It makes sense.
- [25:51]
B
I think, like, I'm gonna slap a Canadian sticker on my car. Like, I'm going, I'm going all out here. But yeah, I definitely noticed a lot a change in the outs, people in America and the outside looking to Americans and their views on America in general. I think, which is interesting.
- [26:10]
A
It's funny because, like, so my experience is similar traveling. Like, I'm in, I'm in California right now and obviously more left. Like I would say not a ton of Trump voters in California. And some people are like, you know, they'll kind of just talk about it with, with like, just like a political discussion, whatever. But what some people, when I've told them that I'm from Canada, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry about what's going on right now. Like, it's not your fault. Totally cool. Yeah, it's good. We're good. Don't worry.
- [26:40]
B
Like, don't stress.
- [26:42]
A
Like, I'm doing some sort of like espionage down, like, you know.
- [26:48]
B
That'S good stuff.
- [26:50]
A
Yeah, it's so fascinating, man. But, yeah, I don't know, I mean, I think it's interesting. Like, I've had this discussion on, on our podcast, the Canadian Real estate Investor, where, you know, there's. There was always this thing called the North American Union. I don't know if you've heard of it. Like, when we were growing up, like, I don't know, like, I was a conspiracy kid and like, this shouldn't surprise you, right? But like in high school, right, like, and there was always like this thing, it was like, oh, yeah, like all the politicians are like, trying to get this North American Union thing going on. Right. I think that that's basically what is being done here. Right. Like, I don't think. I think, like, logistically, Canada joining the U.S. is probably very difficult, but I think, you know, some sort of like, comparable to the EU in North America is probably what Trump is aiming for. It would functionally be the same as Canada joining the U.S. right. If we had a shared currency, the USD and you know, basically open, open borders for trade and travel, like the eu. Yeah. So I could see it being within the realm of possibility, within the range of potential outcomes would be Canada actually goes into some sort of North American union with the US. That's just my two cents. Honestly, I don't think they'll become 50%.
- [28:07]
B
I'm deep into looking at the North American Union over here. Conspiracy theory.
- [28:11]
A
Are you? Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, read up on it. It's interesting.
- [28:17]
B
Crazy.
- [28:19]
A
But anyway, I feel like it's a good app if you're, if you enjoyed it, please share it with your mom, text it to your therapist. You know, like, would be like, subscribe, comment, leave us a review if you're on a platform that does that. Five stars, whatever.
- [28:35]
B
And follow us on social media.
- [28:38]
A
Yeah, follow us on social media, especially Dave. Lots of dancing, please. TikTok videos. Yeah, that's all the tips. We'll see you next week. Next episode. I think we're going to be doing the worst deterioration in affordability in the world since2015. So see you there.