Real Life Real Crime | Justice For Hailey ep 30

Summary

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Real Life Real Crime | Justice For Hailey ep 30

Host: Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Productions)
Guest: Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Director of Evidence Room)
Release Date: February 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a pivotal update in Woody Overton’s deep-dive investigative series into the suspicious death of Hailey, a case long presumed a suicide but increasingly challenged as a potential homicide. Woody brings in renowned forensic expert Scott Roeder to explain new forensic findings and discuss what it means for the quest for #JusticeForHailey. The episode combines technical discussion, impassioned advocacy for cold case victims, and a call for community support to fund further forensic review.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Contextual Updates and Advocacy

• Woody recaps his involvement in unsolved cold cases, touching on cases like Bradley, AO, and Ms. Barbara Blunt, emphasizing persistent advocacy and appeal for public tips.
  • “Not stopping, not giving up, fielding the calls, doing what I do. And let's get justice for them, right? Let's bring them home. It's important. Y’all just keep, keep the pressure up. Don't give up.” (Woody Overton, 03:57)

2. Background on Hailey’s Case

• Woody narrates the background: Hailey’s death initially ruled suicide, with growing evidence and family advocacy suggesting otherwise.
• The DA’s lack of action, despite earlier reassurances, has galvanized private investigation and forensic review through crowd-supported funding.

3. Introduction of Forensic Expertise

• Forensic animator and expert Scott Roeder (Evidence Room) joins to explain his credentials and forensic process.
• Scott’s background includes over 3,000 cases, hundreds of trials, and work with major law and police organizations—a credibility vital for the independent review.
  • “I started off as in photography and worked with the Cleveland Police Department...went back to school and studied...under Dr. Henry C. Lee...I've consulted on over 3,000 individual cases, gone to trial hundreds of times.” (Scott Roeder, 24:59–26:39)
• Notable previous cases include Oscar Pistorius and Marty Tankleff (New York Innocence Project).
• Both hosts stress their commitment to truth and justice, working with and against law enforcement as justice requires.

4. Forensic Failures and Law Enforcement Omissions

• Discussion of procedural errors by the original law enforcement team:
  • Pathologist performed autopsy without key context or investigative detail.
  • Major evidence (Haley’s body and crime scene) mishandled; immediate physical and testimonial evidence compromised.
• Woody: “...the real mess up in the procedure is they send Haley for an autopsy, but with no information to the pathologist…If he had had the information that we have from the get go then it had been a totally different thing.” (Woody Overton, 13:04–15:28)
• Scott notes the institutional disincentive to admit police/procedural errors, emphasizing the need for neutral, evidence-based review.

5. Breakthrough in Forensic Analysis

a. Blood Spatter and Scene Dynamics

• Newly analyzed blood spatter on the wall is likely “incontrovertible evidence” that can rule out suicide and indicate homicide.

  • “There is new evidence that we are zeroing in on and it is the blood spatter evidence on the wall...that I think is ultimately going to be the incontrovertible evidence.” (Scott Roeder, 16:18)

• Key factors:

  • Shape, direction, and position of spatters suggest a horizontal gunshot at standing height—impossible self-infliction due to victim’s arm length and gun size.
  • Intact brain tissue and the trajectory indicate she was upright, the shot was back-to-front, not downward from above (as would occur in a lying suicide).
  • Blood alcohol level (.3) would have impaired Hailey’s ability to manipulate the weapon as posited by the original suicide theory.
  • Victim's hand positioning (one hand clutched in hair, dominant hand unused) inconsistent with gun operation.

  Quote:

  • “That gun was straight back. Because if that gun had any upward directionality, her brain would not be intact.” (Scott Roeder, 41:10)

b. Reconstruction and Future Work

• Scott and his team will proceed with ballistic gel mannequin tests to further replicate the scene and finalize a robust report.
  • “The next step for me is to do a physical experimentation with a gel ballistic mannequin...to replicate that blood spatter on the wall.” (Scott Roeder, 43:44)

c. Demonstration of Objectivity

• Scott discusses professional ethics: he consults for both prosecution and defense and always lets evidence guide his conclusions, refusing to please clients over facts.
  • Memorable Exchange:
    • Scott: “Well, I cannot change the facts of the case. Well, I'm not happy about it. I was like, well, you're happy. This is not my department.” (Scott Roeder, 32:47)

6. Strategic Approach to Prosecutorial Engagement

• Goal is to present irrefutable, independently verifiable evidence so prosecutors can act, even if it means challenging their own initial findings.

  • “My goal is to give them this new information so that they can say, okay, let's verify it on our own, right? …I’m confident when they see our final reconstruction and report they’ll take that as new evidence and criticize it...And I’m confident, once they break it down, they'll say oh he's right.” (Scott Roeder, 49:39–50:29)

• Woody frames media and public pressure as a last resort to force accountability if officials continue to stonewall.

  • “...once, you know, you get the evidence to where it needs to be and we present, if they don't take it, then we're going to burn them down worldwide. And it's what we did before and why the D.A. called Barbara herself on Sundays.” (Woody Overton, 48:12)

7. Community Involvement and Fundraising

• The campaign for forensic review is crowd-funded—Woody reads a lengthy list of donors, emphasizing this as a collaborative push for justice and transparency.
• Appeals for continued sharing and support, reiterating the value of professional, independent investigation for cold cases.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On police procedural errors:
  “...I have never in my 30 years and I've been to a thousand autopsies...the pathologist is only as good as the information they have. It's like if you go see your doctor and you just tell your doctor you're sick, but you don't tell them about any of the symptoms.”
  (Woody Overton, 13:04)

• On neutral forensic practice:
  “I don't have an ideology other than the truth.”
  (Scott Roeder, 29:49)

• Philosophy of Justice:
  “Let a thousand guilty men go...there is a benefit of defending the guilty, everybody's representation because we have to treat the least of us the best or else the best of us will be treated like the least.”
  (Scott Roeder, 33:35 & 34:32)

• Summing up the new blood spatter analysis:
  “That proves, I believe, the horizontal, horizontal nature of the gunshot wound. And if it’s the horizontal nature...then it could not be self inflicted because you cannot reach in a horizontal nature...So I think that was incontrovertible.”
  (Scott Roeder, 42:50)

• On community/team effort:
  “Justice for Haley funded an independent forensic review...even if you're an anonymous, I'm gonna read...the names.”
  (Woody Overton, 57:33)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Summary | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:57 | Woody’s message on perseverance and ongoing cold case activism | | 07:37 | Start of Scott Roeder interview | | 13:04 | Detailed explanation of law enforcement mishandling and impact on forensics | | 16:18 | Scott introduces the pivotal blood spatter evidence | | 24:59 | Scott’s credentials and backstory | | 41:10 | Explanation of brain injury, gun angle, and implications for ‘suicide’ theory | | 43:44 | Next steps: ballistic gel mannequin testing | | 49:39 | Scott’s plan for presenting to law enforcement and building prosecutable case | | 57:33–66:36| Woody reads donor list; community collaboration spotlighted |

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Tone & Style

The episode is intensely passionate yet methodical, blending Woody’s storytelling style and advocacy with Scott’s scientific expertise and neutral, unembellished analysis. Listeners are immersed in gritty, real crime detail, but the dialogue also highlights the emotional cores of victims’ families and the true-crime community’s commitment to justice.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode marks a watershed moment in the Hailey case. Forensic science, ethics, and grassroots activism align as Woody and Scott lay out new evidence that could break through years of institutional inertia—offering hope to the family and a path to #JusticeForHailey. The message is clear: persistent, community-driven investigation can force the truth into the light, even when the system stumbles.

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For continued updates, support the GoFundMe campaign for an independent forensic review and follow Real Life Real Crime on the community app.

Transcript

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[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

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[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

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[Tammy (Geico Subconscious News Host)]

When the wolf is at your core? Your running's over, that's for sure. You already know it's all about you cut you down no matter about you.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

You.

[Tammy (Geico Subconscious News Host)]

Now you better walk alive.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Warning this episode of Real Life, Real Crime. The podcast may contain descriptions of acts of violence or that of a sexual nature and should be for people that are 18 years or older. He my warning people, I do not get the facts of these cases off of the Internet or for some television show. The facts I'm retelling, you were presented to me by the victims of the crimes or the perpetrators who committed the crimes against the victims. My descriptions of the crime scenes, what I saw with my own two eyes. If you're going to get offended, please turn this podcast off now.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Thank you.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Real Life, Real Crime, the podcast. As always, I'm your host, Woody Overton. Today you're going to have a very special guest on and we're doing hashtag justice for Haley. Big breaking news in the case, and we'll get to that in a minute. But I will have a guest on via telephone. And it's very, very, very important. So stay tuned in hashtag just for Bradley. Hashtag just for AO. Hashtag just Ms. Barbara Blunt, please continue to call on your tips. Very, very important. Three one, three RLRC tip. Not stopping, not giving up, fielding the calls, doing what I do. And let's get justice for them, right? Let's bring them home. It's important. Y' all just keep, keep the pressure up. Don't give up. You know, cold cases, every one of them is different. It's just like your children, right? If you got kids, you know, everyone has their own unique qualities. And the Burning Parish show, you know, it's going to stop at some point. The, the a lot is being done. And that's all I can say about it. It's all I'm going to say about it. So that being said, it's Mardi Gras time in South Louisiana, otherwise known as Fat Tuesday in. Yeah, it's the end of carnival season at midnight tonight. And those, like on Bourbon street at midnight, they come down with all the cops and the horses and they shove everybody off the street. And pretty much you got to go inside the bar room and they lock it up. They don't lock it up. They lock you in the bar rooms. And that's it official in the Mardi Gras. And Lent begins, which is a Catholic thing, if you know, you know. And so I hope everybody stayed safe. And I'm doing this about 24 hours already. So I'm praying there's no mass shootings or anything like that that we're missing out on. Just kind of keeps tradition going for I Get Scott Rotor on the phone. On February 17th, on this day in 1970, this like two weeks after I was born, 26 year old Colette, 5 year old Kimberly and 2 year old Kristen McDonald were murdered in their home in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. A Jeffrey McDonald was found lying next to his wife, unconscious with multiple injuries. McDonald was tried for the crimes by the army, but was cleared after a six weeks trial. However, McDonnell was later charged by federal prosecutors. In 1975, McDonald was found guilty, convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Now, y', all, he was a doctor, he was a Green beret and I know the story well. But McDonald maintains his innocence and claims that his family was murdered by Helena Stockley and Greg Mitchell, who allegedly confessed to the crime. How about that, right? All right, without further ado, I'm gonna call Mr. Scott and get him on the phone and we're gonna talk about Haley. Very, very important. Huge, huge. This reason you don't give up in cold cases like Bradley and Aos and Ms. Barbers that, you know, if you can't get it one way, you think outside the box and go and get it another way. So let's call Scott.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Hey, Woody.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Hey, it's Scott Roeder and I want you. I'm already recording. I just had to give give a few brief updates on some other things we have going on. But it's a. I want to say, very exciting to have you on. Thank you for taking your time, first of all. And I don't, you know, I want to talk to the lifers. That's what we call our fans. The. Yeah, y', all, this is raw and unscripted as usual. But the Haley case, and I'm working a couple other cold cases right now. Scott actively. And I was just telling him this is why you don't give up. And each case is different. It's like having children. You never know. You know, they each have their own traits, if you will. On Haley's case, we, you know, I did the in depth series and everything else. And then of course we waited because we thought the D A was reinvestigating. She told Ms. Barbara, you know, even called her on a Sunday at home and did all this stuff. And then I kept telling Barbara just to wait. She said she's putting her best investigator on it and she was all fired up about it. I had the recordings of their conversation and she was all fired up about it. And then in the end they, you know, they didn't respond and finally got Barbara to contact her again and they just pushed to the side and, and said basically that unless we have new evidence that's irrefutable, we're not doing anything. And which, which is a shame first, you know, so Ms. Barbara, through another life for fan of ours, this fan of yours in your work, he, you know, he told Ms. Barbara about it and Ms. Barbara, you know, approached you and everything. And, and it's just, you just don't give up. And there's a reason for that. So. But y' all on the phone. I have with me Mr. Scott Rotor of the evidence room, and you've heard me talk about it extensively the last few weeks. And we're doing the. Or Ms. Barbara is doing the GoFundMe for, for the evidence frame, which the. We'll talk about that in a second also Sky. But the. It's very, very important. Y' all go to any other social media. Go in the Real life Real Crime community app for free and App Store, it has everything. Real Life, Real crime. But we have the links to the GoFundMe. I haven't checked it today to see where it was at. I know last time I checked it, we were just over halfway. But you'll understand when we get done with this call that Scott and his p. His team are professionals and you know, professionals have to get paid. Right. Scott, we can't do everything for free. And, and I understand that, but the, the. What y' all have done, and we're going to talk about it extensively in a second, which I've done already, is, is, is amazing and I appreciate, you know, you, you doing what you're doing.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Well, thank you, Woody. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. On your program. I know Barbara's a big fan of your work on a lot of your cases. Now, you know, on cases like this where we've got, you know, we're literally trying to take away some of this freedom. Right. So.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Get somebody convicted of murder or at least charged and tried for murder. We have to be very careful.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

You know, as a crime reconstruction expert that also specializes in forensic animation and real world physical experimentations in our laboratory to test dynamics of human biology, biomechanics, anatomy and gun dynamics. All, you know, in the totality of the circumstances is what our goal is to do here so that we can leave no room for doubt as to the manner and mechanism of this death. Now, I'll tell you, you know, first off, you know, as a professional, you know, that's. But I'm still a human being. You know, I have children, I have grandchildren.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Most of our, Most of the cases that we still, that we work on are men. Right. That.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

That are convicted of murder or, or being charged with murder. Male victims, it's not that often that we get female victims in the totality of our work, you know.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

However, over the last 25 years, I seem to get a very large number of them, probably at least 15 over the last 10 years or so, which is a lot.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

In the body of work. And it's very disturbing when law enforcement, I think, initially makes some omissions in their procedure, made some mistakes in their procedure, and they put themselves behind, I think, the eight ball when it comes to having to remediate or revisit the work that they've already done and conclusions that they've already made.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Because from an institutional standpoint, they don't want to admit that they made a mistake. Now, I'm not saying that that's the case here.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Oh. But I'm. Let me interrupt you and I'm gonna do that. Like Scott, the y' all was talking about, and specifically on the reason Brooks Cleary hasn't been charged with murder is they screwed it up from the get go. The, you know, the video of the detective on the scene, he's. He's pissed off that, you know, they done all the stuff that they did. And then both the real mess up in the procedure is they send Haley for an autopsy, but with no information to the pathologist. Now, pathologist is only as good as the information they have. It's like if you go see your doctor and you just tell your doctor you're sick, but you don't tell them about any of the symptoms or whatever, then your doctor can't make the correct assessment. I have never in my 30 years and I've been to a thousand autopsies. You go the detective, you know, when you take the. The custody of. Of Haley's body and it's a chain of custody, you bring it in and then you open it, cut off the clip and make sure this. It's the same lock, etc, and you open the bag and they start the autopsy. Well, before that happens, the pathologist is asking a ton of questions. You know, was it a domestic thing? Are they witnesses? You know, what happened? This guy had nothing. And the. And because he's saying there was no damage to the back of the tongue and he automatically ruled it a suicide. And then after the detectives like, oh, hell no. And then went over and told him everything, he changed it to undetermined, which is a Big step for them to do anyway. But it's really not the pathologist's fault. I mean they, they just screwed it up. They should have had. If he had had the information that we have from the get go then it had been a totally different thing. Now we have recordings of the. The cops, every different one of them sky and the saying this is a murder. This is a murder. We're going to get it. This is a murder. Until they didn't and they ended up trying them just for moving Haley's body and destroying some in the. The.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

The police station and, and the cop car. But the deal being is the that and out of the mouth of babes their head guy said but you know what? This is the pathologist that we use on however many homicides we have a year. And for us to go back and go against him, a defense attorney will have a field day. And I, and I agree with that but not to the point. It's not still ruled a suicide. At least he changed it and it needs to go to a jury and at least the grand jury and they need to hear the facts and the fact that he changed it. And I mean everybody makes mistakes. So you know I believe Blue I'm not, I'm not against the cops. I've always been a cop, always will be. But the thing being is if they had done it correctly we wouldn't be talking today.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And so 100% on that. And there is new evidence that we are zeroing in on and it is the blood spatter evidence on the wall.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

That I think is ultimately going to be the incontrovertible evidence.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

That will stand up to cross examination that will hopefully prove beyond any reasonable doubt that this is a murder and not indeterminate and not suicide.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right. Couple things real quick. The and then look, it's my ocd, my scatter brain is rolling. Right. That my thoughts out outdo my mouth. But what I want to do if you don't mind real quick, can, can you tell us about your career and your credentials in the evidence room? The, the before we get into the meat of it that I've told them briefly what I researched about you and everything. But the I think it's very important especially when it comes to raising, you know, the rest of the money and whatever money's needed in the future. The that they know I had to do it. I told Ms. Bar when she called me about you. I was like well you know what? I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to go out on that limb until I know he is legit. I know the evidence for him is legit. I did my research and I told the lifers that that you're legit. But I wanted to hear from the mouth of babes.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

How did you get into the work? What's, what's going, you know, if you.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

No problem. Yeah. Happy, happy to do it. So I I started off as in photography and worked with the Cleveland Police Department as a very young man, you know, 21 and 22 years old working with their homicide unit on crime scenes and forensic photography. I will later went back to school and studied the University of New Haven School of Forensic Science under Dr. Henry C. Lee.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

For the lifestyle name. He's probably one of the most famous ever besides Biden, who has, you know, had his own show.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Right, right. And Dr. Lee, good friend of mine, also my mentor and he's the one that got me started in this business. And also, you know, I've worked under my dear, one of my dearest friends, Most recently passed Dr. Seal Weck, Pittsburgh, who I authored a book with called Prevention of Officer involved deaths with Dr. Lee, Melvin Tucker and Van Blercom, also former chiefs of police in a textbook to, you know, for investigators. It's mostly used at law schools and things like that. So I started my company evidence room in 2001 after a 10 year career working as a consultant for other companies.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And since 2001, I've consulted on over 3,000 individual cases, gone to trial hundreds of times.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Given my deposition hundreds of times. And I provide expert testimony, forensic animation.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Specifically, you know, we're known to, you know, kind of bring the, the art, science and law together. It's kind of our triangle of our principles of our company where, you know, the science is the reconstruction, the art is the forensic animation. And then my legal experience with the law on how to put it all together in a convincing package to present it to a jury and to a judge and the prosecutors. I've worked with law enforcement. I've worked against law enforcement. One of my biggest clients was the Johnny Cochran law firm out of Los Angeles.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Really? How about that?

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we do a lot of police involved shooting cases. We do civil, you know, criminal. We defended police officers on cases of murder.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

I've worked on dozens of suicide cases or cases that have been ruled suicide that we've been able to determine that were not suicides. We also worked on several post conviction cases and we've got several people exonerated and freed from jail. Matter of fact, one of our most successful cases, a case by the name of Marty Tankliff, who's convicted of murdering his parents. We worked on the case for the New York Innocence Project and Barry Shackles, Right. And was able to get him released, found actually innocent. And then now that, that gentleman, Marty Tankliffe is now a professor at Georgetown University where I'm an adjunct for him and he was once incarcerated for murder. So we do all kinds of different things. You know, we have, I'm based out of Cleveland, Ohio. We have a five man team here, five person team of forensic animators and legal professionals and biomechanical Artists, of course. I am the director of, of the projects. And so that's who we are and what we've done. We've had some very famous cases. I was the expert for the, for Oscar Pistorius on the River, Steam Camp, Death in South Africa.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Hey, let me tell you this. Every case you're mentioning, every person you're talking about, the lifers are eating it up. My fans, you know, they say they're cult like, but they're die hard true crime. They're going to know this like Worriso. They're going to know who Lee is and Shank and Johnny Cochran and, and, and everybody else. Hey, real quick.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

The.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

First time I was not. First time was a federal court, but first time was a fail court on the consultant on the defense side. The prosecutors are friends of mine, right. They spent more time in a Darber challenge on me than they did the whole case. So how many times have you been challenged on that?

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Probably a dozen times. I've passed every Dauber challenge. And the good thing I, the thing I think that I benefit from is I'm not an ideologue. Okay. I don't have an ideology other than the truth.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So I'll, for example, I'll work for the Cleveland Police Department defending a police officer on a case of, you know, civil rights violation.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And then I'll work on a case suing the Cleveland police.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always say, you know, it's about justice, it's about the truth, like you said, and, and let the chips fall where they may. If you're dirty, you're dirty. If you're not. I, I'm a staunch, the, you know, I, I'm, I'm a big firm believer in the death penalty. And that's because the, you know, certain crimes warranted. I've had to be on the scenes. I've had to deal and work these cases. And the last person, well, until last year, last person put to death in the state of Louisiana was Gerald Borlan. He was at that back in 2012 and he waived all his rights to appeals. But the thing being is, I also have helped many people that, that were innocent, I believe just as vehemently and defending and exonerate an innocent person as I do convicting the guilty one. So I think that's genius on your part. And, and, and people know if I come in on a consulting side, oh shit. That you know, what he's saying this and what he's taking off this fight to call it.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Woody is I don't have a dog in the fight.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

There you go.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

I have, you know, we have a lot of friends in the business, but, you know, I have a good friend of mine that I've worked with him on, I don't know, maybe 50 cases, and. And now he's against me on a case. Right. So he called me up, he says, scott, don't talk to me about this case because I'm gonna have to try to rip you up on it.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right, right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And that's the kind of. It's a small community in. In the expert consulting world. A lot of people, we run same circles we go, same professional associations. We've.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

We've all, you know, worked on similar cases with different lawyers and. But it's about keeping, you know, the personality or the personal feelings out of it and just doing the work.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

That's correct. And it's a. You're not. You're not seeking a bias or what is a confirmat. You don't have a confirmation of bias. The. It's. You take the facts as they are. The same thing I do when working on a case. Take the facts as they are and let them lead you where they. Where they go. And. And you're not trying to make, you know, a square peg fit into a round hole because it's something that you believe in personally. You're just simply looking at the facts and. And fighting for justice one way or another.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

I'm not a people pleaser. We had a client recently where we finished our reconstruction, sent it off to the lawyer, and the lawyer said, I'm not happy with this. I said, why? And she said, well, it makes our client look guilty.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Well, I cannot change the facts of the case. Well, I'm not happy about it. I was like, well, you're happy. This is not my department.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right, Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

My department is to give you what the. What the facts say.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yep.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So, you know, it's. It's a fine line between, you know, trying to be a helpful consultant and being a truthful consultant. Look, you always have to err on the. On the side of.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

I. I do the same thing in my defense consultant working, travel the country doing it. And there's been lawyers that just knew their client was innocent. And I go in and I spend two hours with them. I go back and they said, what's going on? I said, you better to tell that some take a plea because. Because he's guilty. I mean, I just got him to confess to me, so.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

I'm a big fan of Thomas Jefferson. Where he said, let a thousand guilty men go.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

There's something to you a lot of people talk about like the, the O.J. simpson case, right? Guilty is. The day is long. He murdered those two people.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

As far as can be. But then, but then I was sitting there with Johnny Cochran in his Los Angeles office. I didn't know actually the Chicago office since was a couple years after that. This is showing my age and this is my first case working with him. And I talked to him about it. I said, you know, I think O.J. was guilty, Mr. Cochrane. And he's like. And, and he's like, that's not our job.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Our job is to force the government to pray because they have all the power. And then. And I learned something from that experience. So there is a benefit of defending the guilty, everybody's representation because we have to treat the least of us the best.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Or else the best of us will be treated like the least. That is absolutely correct in the representation. So. Yeah, so that's a little bit about me and you know, my ideology and what we do and, and how we like to do it. So.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah, well, you like I'm in the.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Five of my career at this point in time and, and I'm taking on cases that I believe in.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Haley Johnson cases in case I really believe in.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

And, and, and I'm the same way. I get requests at least, at least one a day. Unless Dateline or Cold Case files or whatever TV shows I've been on runs then I'll get 50 in that day. But at least one case a day on average from families that are hurting around the world because more and had another one. I can't do them all. Yeah, it's impossible. It's physically impossible. Haley's case, I took it because the it. I mean it's, it spoke to me, right. And this. I'm like, come on, man. The end. So, you know, took it on and. But I believe what I believe in and I know what were the mistakes were made and everything else.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Well, you know what, one of the major things that before I really got into the case file, looking at the crime scene evidence, I looked at all of the evidence sequentially. So I looked at it as the evidence was collected. And one of the first pieces of evidence I looked at was the bottom camera footage of the officer that come up to the scene and he is having an encounter with a fireman. And I've never seen in the history of doing all my cases a fire department, fire squad physically restrain and Retain somebody's case.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

And it set him out.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Wow.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And they set him out on, you know, in the cold, on the side steps. And of course they moved the shotgun and, you know, they just blew it all up. And you know what sticks out of me on one of the videos. And thankfully we have all that evidence. The, the videos and in audio and everything else. But when the one cop says that's the most Capri. Complete, complete brain I've ever seen. Yeah, they were in shock themselves.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

But that's interrupted. But that is a key piece of forensic evidence that helped me determine the angle and the position of the shotgun when it was discharged.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Yeah.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And I'll explain a little bit more of that later.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

But before we get into that, I want to tell you my honest and just absolutely my mind what you sent last week, because the, everything that I'm was thinking because of what they said, you know, she. Blood alcohol was a.3 or whatever. And I'm like, she, I, I, I.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

Thought she was laying down.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

And, and so that's what. When, what you said, what you said, we'll get into that. But I saw the bullet spatter that then I was like, holy smokes, she couldn't have been laying down. And, and, but I'm thinking the brains off the back end of the couch, the, you know, she's laying down when she, when she was shot. But the. What you've already done. And I know I'm putting the cart before the horse, which you've already done, disproves what the vision I had in my head, you know.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Yeah. Well, the brain coming out it almost intact to me was I, I had never seen that before. Like that. And that to me indicates that the gun was in a horizontal position.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

In addition to. When you combine that with the blood spatter above the couch, the blood spat. When I analyze the blood spatter on the wall above the couch here, the clock, it's not as high up as you would think. It's a very small couch. Okay.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So, and then, and Haley's very, very small as well. So he's just five foot tall.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

So.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And, and that weapon, I think, I think it's at. I had to, I don't have.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

I believe, I believe it was a Mossberg 12 gauge, but I think it's 28 inch barrel.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Yeah, 28 inch barrel. Muzzle target or trigger to muzzle. 44 inches. Right. Okay. And then when you factor in how tall somebody is, usually their arm length typically is, Is equal to their height. Tip of the finger.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right, Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So you kind of cut that in half and factor it in so you can figure out what their reach ability is. So, so when you. So it's all about the totality of the circumstances and the interrelationship of the evidence. Not any one piece of evidence really gets you across the finish line. Right.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

So it's like a spatter.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

The blood spatter on the wall to me is, is what I call a horizontal blowout.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Where there's not much directionality in the, in the blood droplets and brain matter that's on the wall, except for on the exterior of the blood stain itself. And you're going to get that because of spread. Right. Distance will cause a little bit more spread.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So the further you get away from the center of the, of the blast, you'll get some directionality in an outwardly way. And that's what we see here.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

But the, the main blowout of the high velocity bat spatter is horizontal in nature. And there's even a, A, a, a, an area with very little blood spatter. Which is because that's where her head was.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Exactly.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Okay. Yeah. And then, then if you look on the wall to the, to it would be to Haley's left. There's also spatter there. So she could have been laying down. She had to be standing up when that shot was, was fired. And if you look at how long her arms are in the directionality of the back spatter and the wound path involving her tongue and then the 87 by 8 inch cavity blowout the back of the skull and then with the brain falling out almost intact on the couch to me says that gun was straight back. Because if that gun had any upward directionality, her brain would not be intact.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And the, the blood would be all up on the ceiling.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

We don't see that here.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So that's why I have her in standing or staggering standing position. And then also her right hand, she was right handed. And after talking with Barbara, she told me that that that's the way she sleeps with her right handed. Her hair.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And that makes sense to me. You know, my, you know, I know people that they have a very specific ways. I'm a side sleeper.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

I am.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Example, my, my girlfriend, whenever she falls asleep, she puts her hand up against her, up against her mouth like she's smelling her knuckles. And that's the way she falls. Everybody has a different way they fall asleep. So the fact that she had hair clumped in her right hand obviously tells me her right hand wasn't involved in any way.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right, Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And then her left hand could not be 44 inches to get purchase on that trigger.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So that puts that horizontal position to be impossible to be a self inflicted gunshot wound. Now if this was an upshot, if, and for example, if she was standing, well, kneeling and then used the ground to, to stabilize the weapon.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And then fired. Okay, that's possible. But that's not consistent with her wounds and that's not consistent with the blood evidence on the wall. And the fact that her brain came out almost totally intact to me demonstrates that back cavity of the wound was the direct which allowed her brain to fall out.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Intact. So that proves, I believe, the horizontal, horizontal nature of the gunshot wound. And if it's the horizontal nature for the gunshot wound, then it could not be self inflicted because you cannot reach it in a horizontal nature. It has to be vertical in some degree for it to be self inflicted. So I think that was incontrovertible. But we need to be sure and I need to do more experimentation. We've got sketches and designs and layouts right now that I think are really solid. But for us to be able to present this to the police department, which is my hope is that we can present it to the police department through publicly or directly, however we're going to do it and provide them an expert report to let them know, you know, I think the next step for me is to do a physical experimentation with a gel ballistic mannequin.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

To. To replicate that blood spatter on the wall.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And to replicate with a physical model the ability to reach or not reach to get purchased on that trigger. So that's the next step.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Is physical experimentation. I think that should get us over the line.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And the. I think about the one case I had where it was a grandfather was Easter Sunday. And the he was going on trial the next day for molestation his grandkids and he shot himself. But, but he was doing it to laying down and he actually pulled it because there was a witness. He pulled it, believe it or not, with his toe. But the, but you're, I mean laying down not an option. That's the, that's the biggest and first thing. And you know, I didn't even think about, you know, but I'm not a forensic scientist. But the, you know, certainly I know blood spatter. Hey, let's talk about that real quick. These. And I know lifers know. But the spatter is caused by, you know, and you have a wound that goes through the first blood comes out slower than the blood that's coming out behind it. And that blood hits it and makes it kind of like. What would you call it? Explode. And can you.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Yeah, it's called high velocity spatters.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And when the. Say we've got the. The projectile within the gun, and this is bird shot, so I think it's.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And so the. The bird shot itself isn't the. Is it what is causing all the damage? Okay. It's the gunpowder in the shell that causes the explosion and causes the. The wound. So it's a high charge explosion that's coming out of the barrel of that gun. And when it interacts with the. With the anatomy, we've got a total pulverization of anything in that path. But it starts off with the barrel of the gun that. But then it spreads out very fast, especially on the shotgun. It's much different than a handgun or. Or even a hollow tip.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

You know, a projectile, a shotgun blast is. Has very unique, you know, characteristics. And it's the charge in the gun that causes that explosion. When the blood comes out of the back of the head. And it's not just blood. It's bone, it's. It's tissue, all kinds of things. And then the blood that comes out when it hits the wall, it. It has a directionality. Right. So, for example, you know, if I hit, like, an artery in my neck, and you'll have. It's called arterial spurting.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right, Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And it'll hit the wall, and it'll hit the wall at an angle, and the blood droplets will have a tail on them. Okay. And that tail will tell you the direction the blood hit the wall.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right, Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

So that's what we looked at here when we analyzed that bloodstream. And what's your. Each individual blood droplet that we could identify as an individual blood droplet. And that'll tell me the directionality of the source of the blood, and that helps us get the head in the correct position.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Mm.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

You know, it's. It's fascinating to me, and, you know, and it's just, you know, going back and I'm. What I'm gonna do, y', all is, is I'm gonna post the. I, you know, I never posted any of the crime scene photos or. Or, you know, autopsy or whatever, because I don't have to do it for. Yeah, I don't. I have to sensationalize this as bad enough. Right. But the.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

What. What I sent over, we kind of distilled it so it's not so graphic.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

It's accurate, but it's not gory.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

I want to be careful about that too because, you know, and that's why we do the forensic animation, right? Because it kind of takes the science of everything that we need to know of what happened so that it's understandable and digestible without being overly shocking.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Although it's hard to avoid that.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

To be. Of course it's shocking, but it's not the actual images, right. So I think they're fairly safe.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Yeah, well, the. And what I will do is, you know, release it to the world. We're in 160, something countries, right? I'm gonna release it when it comes time that they're, you know, and.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

They.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Got to shit or get off the pie. The deal being that once, you know, you get the evidence to where it needs to be and we present, if they don't take it, then we're going to burn them down worldwide. And it's what we did before and why the D A called Barbara herself on Sundays. Because all my fans kept calling and emailing to the point this lady's like, look, I can't even do anything with all this coming in. And, and so she gave, well, she played like she gave Barbara the attention. And you know what?

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

She was next.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

She's the next cop before she was a lawyer.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

And I really believe, I really truly.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

In my heart believe from listening to her how fired up she got because she didn't know anything about the facts of the case that she was going to, you know, step up and do what she said she was going to do. But they didn't do it.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

My goal is to not be like, I don't want to be antagonistic or hostile in my work because like I said, I'm trying to do without pride or without passion, right? Just trying to do the skill. And my goal is to give the prosecutors in law enforcement some real evidence that they can sink their teeth into something new.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

They hadn't factored, they hadn't. My review of the file, they haven't factored in the blood spatter to and, and the anatomical destruction inside of the head with the directionality and the horizontal nature of the weapon. I don't think they factor that in. So that's new to them. So my goal is to give them this new information so that they can say, okay, let's verify it on our own, right? Let's go see what Scott Rotor did and let's try to re. Let's try to duplicate it, right? And I'm confident When we're done with our work and we're not done yet but I'm hopefully I'm hopeful and I'm confident that when they see our final reconstruction and read the report that comes along with it that they'll take that as new evidence and criticize it.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And break it down.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

And I'm confident that once they break it down they'll say oh he's right. Right, let's move forward with this. We now have the evidence to move forward and that's my goal is to give them a tool that they can use and verify independently to go ahead and try to get charges.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

That's correct. And, and I want to go over that, touching that point real quick. So y', all, when we do this and, and it's done. Hopefully, hopefully she'll be the professional that I thought she was and I totally expect them to send to whoever they use and whatever and say you know, dispute this or tell me us the truth. Right. And the, so we know that you know, it won't be over just getting them to look at it. I mean technically that's their job. It shouldn't be an issue. But the, the we want them to challenge you. You know why? Because I believe in the evidence room. I believe in Scott Road and I'm, you know, I know you're going to come correct in this going doing. They're going to come back with their, whomever it is they use and they're gonna be like holy, he, he's correct. And and you, how can you not prosecute the Steve for murder?

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Well and I'm, I'm willing to offer my services to the prosecutor's office.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Witness, full prosecutor myself. So that's why I'm trying to be careful to not use any inflammatory language about you know, obviously I think they made them, they made some mistakes and I think.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

And that happens.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

That make mistakes. It happens.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Absolutely.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

The problem with mistakes are they're not a problem unless you don't own up to them.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

That's right. You gotta own up to it and take whatever lick you got to take and then make it correct. And so when I say you know, we burn down etc, that's only to get the political pressure or back in my day we called it an ape an acute political emergency where it draws enough attention media wise and everything else. We're like oh you know what, we gotta revisit this. We gotta make sure you know the we did X, Y and Z and they didn't. And you know what, who cares yeah, you messed up. I've seen so many cases that are messed up. Just poor work or just human error or just mistakes. A calamity of errors, if you will. Everything from the fire department and the gun getting moved to whatever. Not sending somebody to the, with a detective to the pathologist for the autopsy.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

That's okay.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

We're not, I'm not saying they're horrible people. I'm just saying, you know, own up to, to, to your mistakes and get justice.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

That's what it's about at the end of the day. I don't, I don't care. I'm not mad. I don't hate these people or anything else. But the, I hate the fact that, that you know, that although I'm enjoying talking to you, Scott, I hate the fact that it had to come this far when there's, I mean, but, but obviously. Obviously. I mean I'm telling you the whole time I'm thinking they're saying she was laying down, they're saying that. And I never even thought the of, of her standing or, or you know, naturally they were fighting and what have you. She standing and then is awake and he did it whether he meant to. Well, I guess you would have to mean to pull the trigger.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

You also have to factor in her blood alcohol level.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Absolutely.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

A lot of research on her blood alcohol level. 1 I don't think she would have the dexterity and the coordination.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

No way.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

To.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

To pull this off in any way, shape, or form.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

No way.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

You know, so, you know, when you look at. And then you look at some of the witnesses that the. The fire department, they clearly thought that this was a murder, that Brooks came to and said, call 91 1. That guy when he peaked into the room.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Well, when he's listening to it, you can hear Brooks in the background, and he's doing that fake crying. And. And, man. And more. One part of it, he. In the middle of it, he's.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

He calls her a.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

When he's. I don't know if you picked up on that, but he's doing the fake crying. He's like, oh, baby, baby, baby. And he says, you. And. And then he got back into character. And there's so many different things, you know, like the guy that saw him downstairs, Buck, I think his name, was a young man that saw him. And when she kicked him out and why didn't you ask him what he was wearing? And obviously he changed clothes.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Just.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Just a calamity of errors. They could have got the video from the restaurant that got kicked out in earlier. They see what he had on whatever. You know, the. Have the. The amount of time from the. The neighbor heard the thud. It's 10, 15 minutes later that he has to run out and. And trying to get someone to call 91 1. Well, guess what. His. His. He had a phone.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

How many times did you say.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

All we were doing all day long is watching you YouTube videos.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

Why do you have to run out.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

To call 91 1? And then you say you tell the cops or, you know, when you're on the balcony or later on, you tell them in the detectives In. In the interview room.

[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

Oh, no.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

She was standing right there with me the whole time. I'm like, oh, no, that's not correct. All right, y', all. There you had it. This. That look. And by the way, in case I didn't say in the beginning, that phone call was totally raw and unscripted. Scott and I did not speak at all before, other than I called him the, like, 20 minutes before and said, hey, can you record? And he said, absolutely. So everything we talked about, raw and unscripted. Let's get justice for Haley. Justice for Haley funded an independent forensic review is to go fund me. Look, you know what? Everybody that gives, even if you're an anonymous. I'm gonna read. I'm gonna read the names.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

You know what?

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Let me do that now. I'm gonna go ahead and read the names of the people who have donated.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

And I want to say thank you so much.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

The Jennifer Hatfield donated a hundred dollars.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Thank you so much, Jennifer.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Laura Caddy donated a hundred dollars.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Jacqueline Burns donated $200. Thank you, Jacqueline. Hope Malcolm donated $50. Thank you, Hope. I appreciate it. Jamie Patterson donated $50. Yolanda M. Hill donated for it. Thank you, Jamie Patterson. Yolanda m. Hill donated $40. Michael Winkleman donated $50.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Thank you, Michael.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Thank you. Londa Vera l. Lis donated $50.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Vera. Lila W. Sanders donated $50.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Christy and Charlie Davis donated 25.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Christy and Charlie, Laura Maurice donated 25.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Laura. Thank you so much.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Stacy Taylor donated 25.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Stacy. It's huge. Thank you.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Michelle Gore donated 25.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Michelle. Thank you so much.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

An anonymous donor donated $50.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Suzanne Dunn donated $10.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Another anonymous donated 20.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

We appreciate it. Nicole Partyman donated $10.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Alan Jorgensen donated $10.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Forgiven. Kimberly LeBlanc donated $10.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

John Basil donated $6. John. Thank you. Thank you.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Thank you.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Tommy Thomas and Cox donated $68. Tommy.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Crystal Williams donated $25.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

An anonymous donor donated $100.

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Thank you so much, whoever you are.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Amanda thomason Cox donated $68. Amanda.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Laura Beal donated $50.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Laura.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Thank you. You're amazing. Brandy. Martin Hunter donated $30. Brandy.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Shonda Parrish donated $20.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Jennifer reeves donated $19.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Jennifer davis donated 25. Jennifer.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Jennifer hatfield donated $200.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Ashley. Another anonymous donor donated $24.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Another anonymous donor donated $20.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Winston lambright, $100.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Winston miss melissa g. Basil basile. $23.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Kelly flores. $10.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Another anonymous donor, $50.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Amanda Davis donated $50. Thank you, Amanda. Jerry Stevens donated a hundred dollars.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Another anonymous donor, $50.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Jennifer Swansky donated a hundred dollars.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Michelle Martin donated 25.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Michael Haley donated $20.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Jamie Patterson donated $60.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Krista Long donated $50.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Angela Allen donated 25.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Mary Templin. A hundred dollars.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Mary Sue Dunn from Ireland donated $5.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

I hope you're doing well in Ireland. Karen Lipscomb donated 25.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Thomas Davenport, my attorney, donated a hundred dollars.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Shannon Kersop donated a hundred dollars.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Anonymous donor, donated a hundred dollars.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Alyssa Osment gave $30.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Another anonymous donor gave $5.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

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[Quince and BetterHelp Advertiser]

Kenzie Acres.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

$10.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Laura Warnke $15.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

And I appreciate it. Anna Edwards $25.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Leah Banco. $25.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Ben Hink $30. Thank you, Ben. Macy Andreno. $50.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Madeline Malone. $20.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Courtney Davis $50.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Amanda Adams. $50. Thank you, Amanda. Mallory Haynes. $25. Thank you, Mallory. Ellara Sear $20.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Anonymous donor gave $50.

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[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Tyler Gardner gave $50. Thank you, Tyler. Jordan P. Gave $20. Thank you, Jordan. Jordan Price gave $20. Thank you, Miss Jordan. Stella Johnson and the that's.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

That's gonna be Haley's sister.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Y' all gave $23.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Thank you so much, Stella.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

And another Anonymous donor gave $20. Now look, I know that was a minute. It took a minute to read those names. But you know what? They deserve it. And we're going for justice for Haley. And I love and appreciate each and every one of y'.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

All.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

Please, please, please share the GoFundMe. We need to get the evidence from the rest of the money so they can complete this. We can push, continue to push and fight for justice.

[Donation Reader / Supporter]

Hashtag justice for Haley.

[Woody Overton (Real Life Real Crime Podcast Host)]

And I'm Woody Overton, you host the real Life Real Crown the podcast. Until next time or ever. Don't let me catch you down on murder by peace. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have a right to an attorney prior to enduring any question. If you can't afford one, the court appoint one for you. Do you understand your rights?

[Tammy (Geico Subconscious News Host)]

And the wolf is at your go you running over that's for sure.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

You.

[Tammy (Geico Subconscious News Host)]

Already knows all about you.

[Scott Roeder (Forensic Expert, Evidence Room Director)]

Cut you.

[Tammy (Geico Subconscious News Host)]

Down no matter about you now you better walk alive.

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