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Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone Paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments.
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But that's weird.
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Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
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of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com this is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When his son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe medical expenses.
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It was 5k to pay the bill
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for my son and I need only 22 hours.
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It was amazing. People really trust on GoFundMe how did
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Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe telling his story in 30 seconds.
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30 seconds. Be specific. Be quick and tell. What are you gonna be using the funds for? I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money. But you shouldn't be nervous.
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Sometimes you just have to do it
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and see the results. We were able to save my son's life thanks to gofundme that we still have my son with us.
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Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this message reflects one person's experience. You never know where your next unforgettable experience will pop up. That's why bringing along an American Express card opens the door to rewards wherever you go. Morning coffee, run with an old friend.
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Earn cash back. Weekend getaway.
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Earn miles. Dinner at the hottest restaurant in town. You get the idea. No matter the place or the plan. Amex rewards your inner explorer. Learn about card options@americanexpress.com terms apply.
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Yeah. The right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You gotta write to an attorney prior to it during any question. If you can't afford one, the court appoint one for you. Do you understand your rights?
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When the wolf is at your core?
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Your running's over, that's for sure. It knows all about you
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Cut you down no matter about you now you better walk alive. Warning this episode of Real Life Real Crime. The podcast may contain descriptions of acts of violence or that of a sexual nature and should be for people that are 18 years or older. He my warning people. I do not get the facts of these cases off of the Internet or for some television show. The facts I'm retelling you were presented to me by the victims of the crimes or the perpetrators who committed the crimes against the victims. My descriptions of the crime scenes, what I saw with my own two eyes. If you're gonna get offended, please turn this podcast off now. Thank you.
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Hello everybody and welcome to Real Life Real Crime, the podcast. And I'm Cindy Overton. I can't believe that I am saying that. Welcome and not true crime. Time for but a few weeks ago, while researching a this Day in History segment, I don't know if y' all remember, I came across a story that I just couldn't let go of. I told y' all that I was interested in it and I Might do a deep dive into it. So I dug. I dug deep. Before I started digging, I dug because of the victims. I don't want to talk about the killer at all. But to understand the victims, we have to, unfortunately, talk about their murders. So this is a story about vulnerable women, missed opportunities, survival, and one whispered 911 call that stopped a predator before he could kill again. And today we're talking about Shawn. Great. So to understand Shawn great, we need to start in Marion, Ohio. And I've never gone to Marion, Ohio. So today I did a little bit of research. Well, who, what, what, what type of place is Marion? Right? That's the types of things I want to know. Like, I want. Like I want a story, like Woody tells a story. I think that's why so many people engage and love real life, real crime so very much that if you are from this area, when he's telling a story, you know exactly what he's talking about. If you are not from here when he's telling a story, you can actually picture it. And we've had so many lifers come in from all over the country and world that have actually gone to places that Woody described. And I specifically remember one time someone telling me I drove by the Popeyes and Walker, and I knew exactly where I was. Like, I knew that was that. You know what I mean? So I am not that kind of storyteller. So not trying to fill anyone's shoes here. I just wanted to. To tell a story because I. I was interested in it. So we're going to go to Marion. And today Marion has a population around 35,000. But in the 1970s, when Shawn was born, it was still holding on to its identity as a hardworking industrial town. It sits roughly an hour north of Columbus, surrounded by farmland, and there's small communities. It reminds me kind of Clinton. And there's like little kinds of neighborhoods, of course, where we don't see a lot of these days, but kids actually were able to still ride their bicycles until the street lights came home. And who all remembers that? So we're not talking Hollywood, we're not talking New York. Right? This is a small, small town. And I think we can all picture that. And usually in small towns, we don't think that they're the kind of places where we would expect a serial killer to emerge. I can relate that to Derek Todd Lee from a very small town, St. Francisville. We didn't expect that. We certainly didn't. We were, you know, nobody was looking in that area. And he. He Spent a lot of time in Clinton, which is just as small, or if not smaller, actually much smaller than St. Francisville. So when Shawn Michael Great was born on August 8, 1976, he entered a pretty ordinary world. His parents were Terry gate and Teresa McFarland. So when Sean was still young, his parents divorced. And later, when he was around 11 years old, his mother actually moved away and went to Kentucky. I can imagine what that does to a young boy, a young man emerging, you know, 11 years old. And there's multiple reports over the years indicate that Shawn felt that abandonment by his mom. And so, and so if we pause and think about, okay, who all, you know, like, who all feels abandoned out there? Who. Who feels they've struggled in life? Are you a serial killer? Like, we tend to look at serial killers at a certain way. They must have gone through situation after situation after situation to create that type of behavior. But I can tell you that I know many people that have gone through horrific things that did not turn to violence in any way, and much less serial killing. So we really would have to ask ourselves, like, did he have a bad childhood? Well, he was abandoned. So does that chalk up his whole childhood to being bad? Was he angry because he felt abandoned? But, you know, and you know, the listener, y' all know, lifers life isn't that simple. Like I just said, we all kind of grow up with stuff. And probably more than half of us grew up with divorced families and remarried families and then divorced again families. Like so many, we've all lifed, right? Many of us have probably experienced abandonment and struggled and we didn't become serial killers. So while Shawn's childhood may help us understand what part of his development. So while Shawn's childhood may help us understand part of his development, it does not explain why he eventually became what he did. You know, there's the neighbors that. Two sides of the coin. Sometimes, you know, people get up and stand up in church, or people get on Dateline and say about someone that was murdered, well, she lit up the room. Everywhere she went, she was helping people. Like, they put on this, you know, rose colored glasses Persona of certain people and you know, that they weren't perfect. You know, they had bad days, you know, they lost their temper. But, you know, that's not what is shared. And then you have instances where you have someone that finds out a murderer or rapist or serial killer live next door to them, and they're like, I knew he was sketchy. He always stayed to himself. I wondered what was wrong with him. Like I knew something was up. And, you know, hindsight's 20 20. But by most accounts, Sean wasn't viewed as a monster. Growing up. He played sports. He spent time with neighborhood kids. He attended River Valley schools. People knew him and often described him as likable. And those things are what investigators and victims, families, would later struggle with. Because when people pictured a serial killer, they weren't picturing Sean great. They were picturing someone scary, somebody obvious, somebody who stood out. But Sean, he just kind of blended in, and that is what made him dangerous as a teenager. Baseball became a major part of his life. And when you talk to friends and classmates, they remembered him as athletic and competitive. You wouldn't describe me as athletic, but I am very competitive. Anyway, back to the story. And people were hoping for a while that sports would provide direction and stability for young Sean, Right? But life took a different turn. And reports indicate that Shawn suffered a serious arm injury and underwent surgery involving a tumor. So he's abandoned by his mom. He tries to find his way in sports. He's known as being likable. And he, you know, is trying to, like I said, find his way with sports. And then he gets hurt, and he finds a tumor. So after that, when you stop playing sports, you know, you kind of lose that athleticism, that athletic build. And after that, his athletic future changed dramatically. Now, we don't know if that event directly affected him psychologically, but what we do know is that by his late teens, there were warning signs that were beginning to appear. The public version of Shawn Gray still looked fairly normal, but, you know, we all have a private version, and that was becoming something else entirely different. And we were. He was learning how to be a bad guy. And at 18 years old, he was arrested after a incident involving a girlfriend. And the girlfriend said that Sean grabbed her by the throat. And for the investigators and for me, that detail is very hard to ignore, because years later, strangulation would become one of the defining methods in multiple murders connected to him. At the time, though, nobody could see what was in his future. You know, we're not fortune tellers. We're not future tellers. Nobody, probably not even him, would know that Sean from Marion, Ohio, would one day be connected to the deaths of multiple women across north central Ohio. Again, not his friends, not his family, not his future victims. And like I just said, probably not even Shawn himself. But the foundation had been laid. So now we're getting to the part where we're going to talk about Shawn's first victim. And it's intriguing to me because I felt compelled to learn more about this story. And it really hit me hard when I learned that his first victim was actually from Minden, Louisiana. Now, not that I've ever been to Minden, but the Louisiana connection hit me. So let's talk about this victim. Her name was Dana Nicole Lawry. And obviously Dana wasn't born a victim, she was born a daughter and she eventually became a mother and she was a friend to Minnie, and all she was trying to do was build a life. So Minden is in Webster Parish, and it's a very small town in the northwestern part of Louisiana. And if you've ever driven through here, you know, it feels different from the southern part of the state. I mean, they're like northerners. They're like Yankees up there, is what I say. They have rolling pine forest. Of course, every place. You don't have to go far to find a church or a bar.
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In fact, hey y'. All, Starting something new isn't just hard. It can be really scary. When Cindy and I first started real life, Real crime, we didn't know if anybody would listen. We had all the same doubts people have when they start a business or chase a dream. What if it fails? What if nobody cares? What if we put everything we have into it and it goes nowhere? But sometimes you just gotta take that leap of faith. And honestly, having the right tools and the right partners can make all the difference. If something like Shopify had been around when we first started building out our merch and online side of the business, it would have saved us a whole lot of stress. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Heinz, Mattel and Skims to brands that are just getting started. Accelerate your efficiency. Whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones, Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your photography. Plus, Shopify helps you get the word out with easy to run email and social media campaigns whenever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond. Everything's all in one place, which makes running your business so much smoother. And if you ever get stuck, Shopify's award winning 24. 7 customer support has your back. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com RLRC go to shopify.com RLRC that's shopify.com RLRC hey parents, I got a quick question for you. When was your child's last eye exam? Myopia, or nearsightedness, is becoming more common in kids, and it's not just about needing stronger glasses. If myopia continues to progress untreated, it may increase the risk of more serious vision complications later in life. The good news? Any eye doctor can help identify myopia early and recommend options designed to help manage it over time. One of those options is Esler Stellis lenses. Stellus lenses are designed specifically for children and are part of an approach to myopia management that corrects their vision while supporting eye health. As their eyes continue to grow, they look like regular eyeglasses, but the purpose built for young wearers Every child's vision is different, which is why starting with a professional eye exam matters. If you have concerns or even just questions, your eye doctor can guide you through what solution is best for your child. Clear visions today can help support your child's future. It all starts with an eye exam. Visit essler.com to learn more about stealth lenses and the Find an Essler expert eye care professional near you. That's ESS I L O R to learn more today.
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This episode is sponsored by betterhelp. Y'.
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All.
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Summer is one of those seasons that can look completely different depending on what's going on in your life. For some people, it's vacations, family time, sunshine, and making memories. For others, it can feel like you're juggling work, kids, schedule, travels, events, and everything else life throws at you. Honestly, for me, summer is usually, like most seasons, a little bit of both. We have a lot going on with the podcast, family events like Two Weddings, projects around Holly Grove, and all the things that come with trying to make the most of the season. Sometimes I feel like I'm thriving, and sometimes I feel like I'm just trying to keep up. One thing I finally realized is if I don't intentionally make time for myself, it flat out doesn't happen. Whether that's taking a walk, drinking my coffee on my vibration board, spending time in the garden, or simply taking a few moments to breathe and reset. Those moments matter. Therapy can help people better understand their needs, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a version of summer that actually feels good instead of feeling like something you just have to survive. And one thing I find impressive about BetterHelp is that they have over 30,000 therapists and have served more than 6 million people globally, including me. They use a short questionnaire to help match you with a therapist based on your needs and your preferences. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at each any time. Better Help therapists are fully licensed in the United States. Listen, you don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support and therapy Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com RLRC that's betterhelp.com RLRC
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this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, may is Mental Health Awareness month, and it's a good reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life can get overwhelming. Some days feel manageable, some days don't. And a lot of times the things that keep you up at night are the things you don't talk about with anyone. It's easy to feel like you're supposed to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, nobody has all the answers and you shouldn't have to carry everything by yourself. Having someone to talk to, someone who will listen and help you work through what's going on, can make a real difference. Therapy is a way to check in with yourself and understand where you are and what you need. Better help makes it easier to get started. They match you with a licensed therapist based on your needs and preferences. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch it anytime. It's about finding the right support for you. And during Mental Health Awareness month, it's a good time to pause and really check in with yourself because you don't have to navigate things alone. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com that's B E T T E R H e l p.com Woody and I on
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our last trip back from Dallas, we're looking at going through all the small towns from, you know, north Louisiana, all the way home. And literally I don't think we made it in a town. Made it a mile between a church or a church, like a church or a bar, like in each small town. I mean, it was like church, church, bar, bar, church, bar, church. Like they're just everywhere. Or a sign part, you know, pointing to a church down the road. So, you know, it's full of small town churches. And a huge thing in the south on Friday nights is Friday night football and everybody Knows everybody, and that's where she's from. And it's a place where you don't meet a stranger. Like, that's how we are in the south. You don't know a stranger. You meet someone, you welcome them. They're friends and eventually become family. And family matters down here. It's also the kind of place where people notice when people go missing. So by the time Dana was In her early 20s, she was a mother of two young daughters. And like a lot of young parents, she was trying to make ends meet and build a future. At some point, she became involved with a traveling magazine sales crew. Now, if you've never. And I've never. So if you've never encountered one of these sales crews, they were fairly common at the time. And young people would travel from city to city selling magazine subscriptions door to door. And the work was difficult. Of course, it's long hours. I'm sure you're paid on commission, so the pay is uncertain, and you're constantly traveling. But for many people that were great salesmen, likable, this type of job offered opportunity to make money quickly. And in 2006, that work brought Dana to Ohio, more specifically, narrow in that dot, Marion County. And somewhere during the trip, she crossed paths with Shawn Gates. And for years, nobody knew exactly what happened. Now, later, investigators put the pieces together, and mostly those pieces came together because of Grate's own admissions and physical evidence surrounding the discovery of Dana's remains. But according to Grate, he encountered Dana while she was selling magazine subscriptions. He later claimed that there may have been a disagreement involving magazine subscriptions sold to his mother. Whether that part of the story, the problem, you know, subscriptions sold to his mother problem. That could be true, partially true. We honestly don't. We don't know. One thing investigators learned very quickly about serial killers, It's. I mean, hopefully they didn't have to actually learn this. But serial killers, I'm going to surprise you with this one. They lie. Of course they lie. But they lie to make themselves look smarter. They lie to make themselves look less evil, and they lie. They lie mostly because they want to control. And when you're talking to an investigator, you want to control the narrative. So when a killer provides an explanation of why he murdered someone, it should be viewed with skepticism. And that's pretty, pretty obvious, because normal people don't go around killing people for minor disagreements. Moral normal people walk away. But what we do know is Dana did actually disappear. And for months, nobody connected her disappearance to Shawn Grate. In March of 2007, human remains were discovered in a wooded area off of Victory Road in Marion County. The remains belonged to a woman. Investigators did not know who she was, and she didn't have any identification on her. And there was no immediate match. There was no name, and it was just bones. And so for years, Dana existed in official records as an unidentified woman. And I have daughters, and I cannot imagine. I can't imagine what Stephanie Belgard goes through. Her baby girl's buried. I can't imagine what Ms. Lynn's going through. She doesn't know where her daughter's remains are. These remains were found, and they didn't have a name. There's no body to tell. There's nobody. There's no way to, like, bury them. They just sat there. And as a mom of two daughters, I don't bleh. And so time went on. Years passed, and then more years passed. But as these years were passing, one great thing was happening. Technology was improving. DNA was improving, and another great thing was happening. The investigators refused to give up. And that is always, in my opinion, all the DNA in the world, all the technology in the world doesn't matter unless you have actual human beings that care and so go off track a little bit. When Woody gets slammed for doing these cases, the justice for cases, and doing the best that he can and, you know, getting stuck because law enforcement isn't making a move, and we can't give an updated story, you know, that. That turns me into mama bear, because I don't see anybody else out there doing this case. I don't see any other person picking, you know, Haley's case up. I didn't see anybody picking up Courtney's case. I don't see anybody else working on Madison's case. Police officers are. There's a great team of police officers. I shouldn't say it that way, but I'm saying the. The people that. The naysayers, the supposed lifers that think they're big and tall behind a keyboard and have some choice words or complain about not getting an update, they need to check themselves real quick. But I'm getting off track. But luckily, these investigators refused to give up, much like Woody Overton. And eventually, through advances in forensic genealogy and DNA identification, the mystery was solved. The mystery of the unidentified woman was solved. And that didn't get solved for more than a decade after her death, and she was able to finally go back home, and she was able to be buried. But that doesn't tie everything up in a nice, neat bow. Justice Isn't served. We don't know what happened to her. More questions, like, when you don't have a body, you can hope that your daughter ran off and was living on a private island in Belize, living her best life. And, you know, you can have those dreams, but, I mean, not that you want your daughter to, like, leave you, but you know what I mean? Like, when you have a body and no answers, it just makes you more conflicted. And they had questions, and they, of course, had uncertainty. They finally, suddenly, there was an answer. It wasn't the answer they wanted, but they learned that Dana had, in fact, been murdered. And they did find out that Shawn Grate was the man responsible. And so this is the first case. And so one thing you'll notice as we move through these cases is that Gray's victims were often women who lived complicated lives, women who were vulnerable, women who were overlooked by society, women who sometimes didn't have the kind of immediate media attention that causes national nationwide searches. Very much the people that Woody seeks justice for. These were his grades. Pray, because guess what? People like great. The predators, they understand that. They know that when they see that, they count on that. And Dana was targeted because of that. And she appears to have been targeted because Sean Grape believed he could get away with it. And guess what? He did get away with it for a very long time. And then after Dana's murder, there was years before another known victim entered the timeline. And that's years that can be proven. There might be other victims out there that haven't been found. Because when investigators look at serial killers, one of the biggest questions is whether the known victims represent all of the victims. Now, sometimes the answer is yes. Sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes the truth dies with the killer. What we do know is that Shawn Gray continued drifting through Ohio, working odd jobs, moving from place to place. He built relationships. He was lying in those relationships, if you can call that a relationship. But he was building them. He was lying. He was manipulating. He was surviving. But beneath the surface, there was darkness that existed inside him. And it was waiting. And with each passing day, it was just an urge, just like Madison's killer, that once they get that taste of blood, they continue. Yeah, it's any day now before there's another body until this man is put behind bars. But the same taste was in Sean's mouth. The same urge. And so as it was waiting to come up, well, another woman came to be. Rebecca Lynn lisi. Rebecca was 31 years old. She was from Mansfield, Ohio, about a city she was the city of Ashland was about 20 miles from Mansfield. And Mansfield is one of those Midwestern communities that has seen both prosperity and hardship over the decades. Factories have come and gone. Jobs have come and gone. Families have come and gone. Families are still there struggling because they can't find another place to go. And that city has adapted. You adapt, improvise, and overcome to survive. And so there's people there that have adapted. Many people like Rebecca faced challenges in her life. But Rebecca wasn't a serial killer. But she faced challenges. And she was more than those challenges. As I said before, of Dana, Rebecca is also a daughter. She's somebody's friend. And her absence mattered. So in early 2015, when Rebecca disappeared, people didn't know what was going on. Like, but on March 9, her body was discovered in a wooded area in Ashland County. And again, there was uncertain about exactly what happened to her. Now, Shawn Grate was arrested in 2016, and they revisited that case. The investigators did, and what emerged was disturbing. Gray eventually admitted involvement in Rebecca's death. He claimed there had been an argument. He claims she had stolen money from him. First, Dana has a problem with the subscription and his mom. Now she. Rebecca's stealing from him again. Those are his words. And she was strangled. And obviously, arguments don't explain murder. And no argument explains strangulation. And arguments don't explain leaving a woman's body in the woods. What investigators saw when they looked at her was a vulnerable woman, another one whose life intersected with a man who viewed violence as a solution. And again, same story. Rebecca's death did not receive the attention it deserved when it happened.
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Hey, y'. All. You're listening to a show about the darkest corners of human behavior. And let's be Honest, it's probably 11pm you're in bed with the lights off, slightly more aware of every sound in your house than you were an hour ago. And here's what I know about you. You're not sleeping. Great. Not because of the show. Well, maybe because of the show, but because your bed is hot, you're restless, and your brain does not know how to turn off. The good news is that one of those things is completely fixable. And it's not the brain. It's the temperature of your bed. Today's episode is brought to you by Chilipad 2.0 by Sleep Me. Chilipad 2.0 is a water based mattress topper that actively controls your bed temperature from 55 to 115 degrees all night long. It works on top of your existing mattress. No overhaul needed. You set your temperature, it holds it and your body finally gets the cool, stable sleep environment it needs to drop into deep restorative rest. The 2.0 is a full redesign. 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In case y' all don't know, Cindy is big and I'm making our house feel like a home from all the seasonal decorations which y' all know I love to tease her about to the ruggable rugs she puts on floors making her house feel warm, welcoming and comfortable. That's really important to her. And Cindy has found several ruggable rugs that really fit her home and our style, especially in those high traffic areas that deal with the everyday life around here, dogs running through the house, muddy boots during hunting season and just life me in general. One of our biggest high traffic areas is the kitchen and putting a ruggable rug under the table and one by the door really changed the whole look of the space while helping protect the floors where we get the most traffic. Then add in visits from our grandbaby and holidays and a full house. Y' all know those ruggable rugs take a beating. That's what's great about Ruggable. They look great but they actually built for real life. They're stain resistant, machine washable, non slip and easy to clean. Which is huge for us because when you've got dogs, family and people constantly in and out, you need something that can hold up and still look good. And if something gets spilled on the rug with rugs, Cindy can literally throw it in the wash. And there are so many styles to choose from. Modern, cozy, classic, bold, whatever fits your vibe. Cindy loves that she can make the house look beautiful without stressing over every little mess or spill. So refresh your home at ruggable. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with promo code R L r c@ruggable.com that's r u g g a b l e.com and use code R L R C at checkout. You're listening to this podcast. I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save Progressive save over 900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. 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- [45:51]
A
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- [47:45]
C
and this is part of the high risk lifestyle. When victims like this struggle with addiction, poverty, unstable housing or mental health issues, society sometimes treats those disappearances differently. And that is why Woody chooses these because they're not the one that people immediately try to investigate. They're the hard ones to solve. One thing that doesn't treat the victim differently, though, are families. Families still care, families still search and families still grieve. But public attention can be different. And serial predators know that. They understand who is likely to generate headlines and they understand who will not. And Rebecca, though, although he deemed her as not worthy of headlines, she is deserved to be remembered. And not because she died, but because she actually lived. But he didn't stop there. You know, it wasn't just. Not just, but we've already got two under our belt now. And now we have a pattern, right? The manipulation, isolation, violence, strangulation, disposal of bodies, series of accidents. It's not bad luck. This wasn't a man who found himself in unfortunate situations, that someone's coming at him, that he gets in a fight with a woman and so he has to kill her. He was a predator and he wasn't finished yet. By 2015 and 16, Shawn Grate was almost 40 years old. And on the surface, his life looked like the mess that it actually was. He bounced from place to place. Relationships came and went and jobs came and went, and he often didn't have a stable residence. He was very much like his victims. And that's how he found his victims. Right. He hung out where he was with. He was in the same places they would be. But one thing investigators would later realize is that people were making the mistake of judging him by what they saw. And they saw him as a drifter. They didn't see him as a predator. And obviously, there's a huge difference. A drifter is someone in survival mode. They're going from place to place, trying to set roots or trying to find a steady job. They're trying to be positive and make things work. A predator is looking for opportunities, but in a different way. And Shawn grate had become very, very good at spotting opportunities. One of the women who entered his life during this period was Candace Cunningham. Candace was 29 years old. And unlike some of the other women in this case, Candace wasn't a stranger who crossed paths with Shawn for a few hours. She actually knew him. And that's what makes this story heartbreaking, because there was, like, a relationship, which she thought there was trust. And when you trust someone, you're more vulnerable to dangerous situations. When someone is a predator, like, someone like, great. But by multiple accounts, Candace and Shawn had an on again, off again relationship. And like I said, they knew each other. They spent time together. And like many relationships involving manipulative people, there were periods where Shawn appeared caring, attentive, and supportive. That might be kind of like the love bombing phase. That's how predators operate. Obviously. They don't take off the mask. They don't show their monster. They're not like, hey, by the way, I'm an evil killer, but, you know, I'll be nice to you. Come stay with me. They show the version of themselves that earns the trust, the version that gets invited in, the version that makes people think, maybe this person really does care about me. And at some point, Candace appears that she believed that. You hear that? They don't love you like I do. Come with me. I got you. No one loves you like me. I'm going to take care of you. But with each time, he was getting more and more control of her. Control of her attention, control of emotions, control of where she could go, what she could do, who she could see, Control of decisions that she could normally have made on her own. When that control starts slipping and. And that victim pulls back on the control, that's when people like Sean become dangerous. And in 2016, Candace disappeared. And for her family and friends, there was confusions. Obviously, there was confusion where had she gone? Why wasn't she answering? Why wasn't she showing up? The questions were piling up. And I keep thinking of Ms. Lynn. I just keep thinking of. I mean, how much these stories align. Most people assume when dealing with serial killers that they'll change. Like, maybe after a murder, like, I don't know, like, maybe they'll show some signs of guilt. Maybe they'll have, like, a strong, dramatic emotional reaction. But killers, they don't act that way. They don't operate that way. They go to work. They go kill, sit next to the body and eat lunch. They kill, clean up, go talk to their neighbors. They sit down and watch TV with the person dead on the floor in a pile of blood. And they carry those secrets deep, deep in them. And nobody can see them. There's no sign of them. But after Great's arrest, eventually he admitted to also killing Candace. And her, Remember, her remains hadn't been found yet. So her remains were later found in Richland county near a burned residence. And as the investigators piece together what happened, another pattern emerged. Candace wasn't killed during a random confrontation. She wasn't the victim of some sudden explosion of violence from a stranger. She was killed by someone she knew and someone she trusted, someone who had spent time earning access to her life. And if you look at the stories of many serial killers, that's often where the greatest betrayal occurs. The public tends to focus on the killer, the victim's family focus on the betrayal, because the betrayal is what lingers. The realization that the person responsible sat at the same tables makes me think of Courtney, Coco, and Ms. Stephanie. They shared the same conversations. They pretended to care. Candace's murder marked another escalation in pattern that investigators would later recognize. All too clearly the victims weren't random. The circumstances varied. The women varied, but Shawn's behavior remained remarkably consistent. And I'm going to. I'm going to list it out again. Manipulation, control, isolation, violence, and strangulation. Again and again. As investigators would later study his crimes, they noticed something important. He wasn't hunting a particular hair color, a particular hairstyle. He wasn't hunting a particular age. He wasn't hunting a particular audience or vulnerability. Those things connected him to these women. Some struggled financially. Some struggled with housing. Some struggled with mental health. Some struggled with addiction. And some were simply lonely. And predators notice loneliness. They notice isolation, and they notice people who don't have a crowd around them. And Sean Grate appears to have been especially skilled at identifying those vulnerabilities. That's why experts Generally place him closer to the power and control offender versus the classical preferential serial killer. His satisfaction appears to have come from domination, from deciding who lived and who died, who was free and who wasn't. And he got it from controlling another human completely. And unfortunately, by the summer of 2016, that need for control was accelerating because the next woman who crossed Shawn Gray's path would lead investigators directly to the house that ultimately exposed everything. And her name was Elizabeth Griffith, which is the reason why I'm telling this story. And unlike the other victims, investigators were able to reconstruct much of what happened during the final days of her life. What they discovered would reveal not only how Sean Gray killed, but how comfortable he was becoming living alongside death himself. And what they discovered. By the time Elizabeth met him, Shawn was no longer just a dangerous man. He was becoming the serial killer hiding in plain sight. Elizabeth Griffith was 29 years old. And before we talk about the way she died, let's talk about the way she lived. She was a woman navigating challenges that many people listening to this show either understand personally or have watched someone they know straight struggle with. Elizabeth lived in Ashland, Ohio, and she dealt with serious mental health issues. And unfortunately, she dealt with paranoid schizophrenia and periods of mania. And court records later revealed that she had support services in place and maintained regular contact with a peer counselor who checked on her several times a week. And that's important to mention because sometimes when people hear the word schizophrenia or mental illness, they immediately picture someone who's disconnected from reality. We picture someone homeless, living on the streets, talking to themselves, just without anyone. But luckily, that wasn't entirely true for Elizabeth. She was actually living life. And she shopped and she walked around town, she interacted with people, and she had people who cared about her and her well being. She wasn't unseen. She was literally just trying to navigate life the best way that she could. But in the summer of 2016, people close to Elizabeth noticed something, and they noticed a difference in her behaviors. And probably not what you thought when I said that. She seemed excited, happy, energized. And her counselor later told investigator that it appeared that she had met someone. And of course, that doesn't seem alarming. That's great. Like, we want you to meet someone. We want, like, people meet people all the time. We want the people you meet to make you happy. That's who we want in your life. Right? People start new relationships every day. But investigators would later believe that someone that brought all this sunshine and happiness to her life was Sean Gray. And if that's true, it follows the pattern we've already seen. He didn't burst into people's life through violence. He didn't, like, just see them on the street, grab them and kill them. He didn't stalk them. I guess he might have stalked them to build up that relationship. Like, okay, she looks like prey. Let's get to know her. Let's pull her in. He entered through the conversation through friendliness, through trust, through safe appearing safe. On August 16th of 2016, Elizabeth spent some of her day shopping in Ashland. And a witness actually saw her walking along Main Street. Nothing appeared unusual. There was no reason for anyone around to believe they were watching the final hours of her life. And of course, most victims don't know they're in danger. They don't wake up. I mean, how many people have you wait. How many of you wake up thinking, oh, this is my last day. We're gonna go run some errands, go buy some groceries, right? You wake up, you're thinking about your day, how you're gonna plan your day, thinking about your tomorrow. But at some point during that day, Elizabeth vanished. And then days passed and weeks passed, and people actually did become concerned. And she was eventually reported missing, but by then, she was already dead. Elizabeth's family and friends were searching for answer, and Shawn Grate had moved into a house on convert court in Ashland. Now, when I say moved into, don't think like, oh, he went and signed papers, and he put down a down payment. This wasn't like a whole rental application process. He just go. He went into an abandoned house, and there was no running water. It was he, wasn't he? I can't think. He was not a legitimate occupant. The structure was actually pretty much forgotten, and he broke into it and decided to stay there. Later, he described it casually. He's like, well, I made myself at home. You know, it became a home. The neighbors weren't paying attention to it. There was no landlords checking in, no reason for visitors. So for a predator, this is a perfect place.
- [62:56]
B
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- [63:56]
A
What is that?
- [63:57]
B
Oh yeah, it's a World cup holder.
- [63:59]
A
Like the soccer tournament.
- [64:00]
B
World cup holder for the world Fits every car, holds every cup.
- [64:04]
C
It has a Carvana logo.
- [64:06]
B
Carvana made it. They buy and sell cars, so they made a car cup holder. So. Got any good cups lately?
- [64:13]
C
Used to.
- [64:14]
A
Just couldn't figure out where in the world to put them.
- [64:16]
B
The World Cup Holder brought to you by Carvana. Proud sponsors of the World Cup Holder, sign up today to win yours@cup-holder2026.com not authorized or endorsed by FIFA. Not a real product for parity and fair use purposes only.
- [64:26]
A
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, Filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grain Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. This is the story of the one As a maintenance engineer at a beverage manufacturing plant, he starts his day knowing every line is ready to run. Because Grainger delivers the industrial grade products he needs to keep mixers, conveyors and packaging equipment moving. With Granger's vast selection of bearings, belts and motors, he keeps operations running smoothly so nothing grinds to a halt. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [65:26]
C
And inside that house, investigators would later discover Elizabeth Griffith's body. She was found in the upstairs closet, hidden beneath clothing and bedding. She was concealed. It was like, let me just put her up here. Not going to dump her in the woods anymore because they found those other Bodies. Right. So I'm just going to keep her in here, and there will be no consequence. There's no way that she's going to be found. And she was found, and the medical examiner determined she had been strangled, which, again, is the same method that he killed the others. The same pattern of getting close to physically take the life of another human being. Woody will say strangulation is the most personal form of murder. And he actually acted this out in one of his lives. He had people in the audience grip their neck for just a short period of time, and not to their fullest extent, but just so they could feel the force of what was happening. And what happens when you're strangled? Definitely, strangulation is not accidental. It requires sustained force. It requires time, and it requires constant connection to the person you're killing until the victim dies. And that is one reason criminologists pay such close attention to it, because it often reflects domination as much as violence. Elizabeth's body remained in that house. And this is where the story becomes even more disturbing, because Shawn Gray didn't flee. Remember, he didn't. They don't panic. They don't abandon the property. Like I told you. They get comfortable sitting next to that dead body and going about their day. He continued to live there. And what do we know about dead bodies? It's going to stink. And I've never smelled a dead body, but it's going to stink. And you don't get that out of your nose. Like, you just don't for a long time. But through that stink and knowing that you killed somebody and they're upstairs, he continued to eat there. He continued to sleep there. He existed day after day in the same structure where that woman was. Where. Not that woman. Where Elizabeth. Elizabeth was upstairs. And that's like. How do you. How do you comprehend that? Like, how. How did. How. Like, as a listener right now, how are you. Can you ju. Like how? I don't know. Serial offenders sometimes become desensitized, you think, sensitized to death in ways that seem impossible to understand. And the body is no longer a person to that person. Like, they just. They're. They no longer become a human. They just get. They're desensitized. But that body was evidence. And so it was something to conceal. It was something to manage, and it was something to control. And if Elizabeth's murder had been the last one, perhaps investigators would have eventually uncovered the truth through a missing person's investigation. But it wasn't the last one, because only weeks later, remember, for A time. It was longer periods of time, but he's getting closer and closer because that. That drive, that need, that desire, that taste just gets more and more. So just weeks later, another woman came into Shawn's life. Now, her name is Stacy Stanley. And Stacy's final day can be traced almost by hour to hour, which means we know something Elizabeth's loved ones never got. We know exactly where Stacy was, exactly who she encountered, and exactly how close she came to actually making it home. And the tragedy is that home was only a short drive away, and she never got there. So on September 8th of 2016, the day began as an ordinary day for Stacy Stanley, but it ended as her last day. She started off running errands, doing, you know, making phone calls, shopping. She had plans for tomorrow. She was 43 years old, and she was a mother, and she was, in fact, a grandmother. She was a woman who also had people who loved her and expected to see her again. Now, she lived in Greenwich, Ohio, which is a small village about 30 minutes north of Ashland. And like so many Midwestern communities, it was the kind of place where people recognized one another at the grocery store and waved across parking lots. We all know that we. We can relate to that or have seen it in a movie. That afternoon, Stacy drove around Ashland, which was not unusual for her. She made the trip all the time. And at some point during the evening, she had a flat tire. And that flat tire is what changed everything. So around 8:30 at night, she stopped at a gas station, a BP gas station in Ashland, and she called her son. But an acquaintance came to help change the tire. And while all of that was happening, another person happened to be at the gas station. Well, you guessed it, Sean. Great. Now let's think about how random life can be. A different route, a different gas station, a different time, a tire that doesn't go flat. Maybe none of this happens. But that's not how this story unfolded. Witnesses later recalled being seeing Stacy and Sean talking. And of course, that didn't appear alarming. Remember, they didn't look at Shawn as an alarming person. He blended in. Nothing appeared threatening. And like a attendant, an employee at the BP says that she recalled Stacy being cheerful, friendly, in a good mood, you know, even with a flat tire. A lot of times people get flat tires and like, okay, whatever, move on. A lot of people get really, really upset. But not Stacy. She was in a good mood. She actually went and purchased a cup of coffee for Shawn. And that exactly shows who Stacy was. She was a kind person. And that Is exactly what someone like Sean is looking for. And tragically, that was an act of kindness that was extended to the wrong person. So after leaving that gas station, Stacy called her son again and said she said she was heading home. Home is all she said, except she never got there. Somewhere between the gas station and home, Shawn grade inserted himself into the rest of Stacy's story. Now, investigators would later determine that she left with him. Exactly what was said between them, we don't know. Maybe they had a conversation. Maybe he asked her for help. Maybe he just charmed her. Obviously, we know whatever it was was manipulation. And also, we know that Stacy trusted him enough to continue interacting with him. And that trust cost her everything. And when stacy failed to return home, her family became concerned. The general usual stuff happened. Calls went unanswered. Time passed, and, of course, worry grew, and soon people were actively searching for her, Trying to figure out where had she gone, Trying to figure out what happened. And investigators located her vehicle. Inside the car were details that immediately raised concerns. One, her phone. Two, her ID and three, her personal belongings. And people don't usually leave those things behind voluntarily. And then. Yet there was another detail. The driver's seat had been pushed far back, Farther back than Stacy would normally position it. Investigators believe someone else had been driving the vehicle, Someone taller, Someone like Sean grate. And as detective began to piece together Stacy's movements, they had no idea how close they were to getting something far larger. At that point, they were simply searching for a missing woman. What they didn't know was that another murdered woman was already hidden inside an abandoned home in ashland, and that within days, a survivor would leave them directly there. When police eventually entered the house on convert street, they actually did discover Stacy's body. And she had been strangled, just like over Elizabeth griffith. Two women, One house, one killer. And here's the part that chills me every time I think about it. For days, Sean gray continued living there. He was sleeping there, smelling everything there, Walking through the rooms, knowing exactly what was hidden inside. And the rest of the world was searching. Families were hoping. Investigators were working. And he was carrying on as though nothing had happened. By then. The pattern was undeniable. There wasn't bad luck. It wasn't coincidence. This wasn't a man who repeatedly found himself in unfortunate circumstances. This was a serial predator, A man who selected vulnerable women, Gained their trust, Exerted control, Used strangulation, and disregarded lives as though they had no value. But what Sean gray didn't know was that his freedom was measured in days. Because While Stacy's family searched for answer, another woman was about to walk into the same house. And the difference was that this woman would actually get to walk out. And because she survived, the entire nightmare would come crashing down. And so that's where we're going to leave this story for today. Let's sum it up. Investigators still don't know exactly what they're dealing with. Families are still searching for answers. Women have been murdered. An abandoned house in Ashland, Ohio, is hiding secrets that nobody has uncovered yet. Shawn, great. Still free. But he's not free for much longer. Because in our next episode, we're going to talk about the woman who survived. The woman. That is the reason why I really got double intrigued to tell this story. And so we're going to walk through one of the most remarkable 911 calls I've heard, and which is a whispered plea for help made while the serial killer slept only feet away. And we're also going to talk about how police found Shawn Grate and what investigators discovered inside the house. We're going to talk about the confessions, the victims we haven't discussed yet, the interrogation, the trial, and the death sentence. And we're also going to ask certain questions, like how many opportunities were there to stop him before another woman lost her life? But for now, I want us to remember these women's stories, the women that we've talked about today. Dana Lowery, Rebecca Lecy, Candace Cunningham, Elizabeth Griffith, and Stacy Stanley. And like I said earlier, they were daughters, mothers, friends, family members. They were people in the community. They were employees. They were human beings. And they had lives that mattered long before they ever crossed paths with Shawn Gray. And they deserve to be remembered for far more than the way they died. So thank you for joining me into my first deep dive. And in case you forgot, I'm Cindy Overton, and this has been my first ever real life, real crime. So until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and never forget that somebody somewhere is still waiting for answers. And in this case, those answers are finally about to come.
- [79:30]
B
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have to write to an attorney prior to or during any question. If you can't afford one, the court of law on one for you. Do you understand your rights?
- [79:52]
C
And the wolf is at your home
- [79:58]
A
Your running's over, that's for sure
- [80:04]
B
Already
- [80:05]
A
knows all about you
- [80:10]
B
Cut you down
- [80:11]
C
no matter by you
- [80:16]
B
now you better walk.
- [80:40]
A
Hey, it's your ceiling vent so I'm dripping. Could be the rain, could be the upstairs bathroom.
- [80:47]
C
Yikes.
- [80:48]
A
You could hire the guy your neighbor recommended, but I'm pretty sure that's just his cousin. Do we know if he's licensed or
- [80:55]
C
does he just own a ladder?
- [80:57]
B
Listen to your home go with thumbtack. Upload a photo or voice note and we'll diagnose your project and match you with the right pro for the job. Thumbtack, we know homes hire the right pro today.
- [81:09]
A
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- [82:40]
B
Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana. Give it a whirl. Love ya.
- [83:02]
A
So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.