Real Life Real Crime | What’s Changed in the Justice for Hailey and Justice for Bradley Cases? | Case Update

Summary

---

Real Life Real Crime – "What’s Changed in the Justice for Hailey and Justice for Bradley Cases? | Case Update"

Podcast Host: Woody Overton
Date: December 13, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on recent developments—or lack thereof—in the pursuit of justice for Hailey (referred to as the "Justice for Hailey" case). Host Woody Overton plays an emotionally charged recorded call between Ms. Barbara Johnson, Hailey's mother, and members of the Cobb County District Attorney’s office. They discuss the office’s refusal to pursue murder charges against Brooks Cleary, citing double jeopardy and alleged lack of evidence. Woody shares his perspective on the failings, frustrations, and procedural runarounds, encouraging listeners to persist in advocating for justice.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Woody’s Intro: Systemic Failure and Community Action

• Woody introduces the episode by expressing longstanding frustration with the DA’s handling of Hailey’s case.
• He calls attention to inconsistent statements from prosecutors and perceived stalling tactics by the DA’s office.
• Quote: “They said it themselves. But then, yeah, they pussyfooted around and charged them what they charged them with, but they didn’t charge them with murder.” (Woody Overton, 05:21)
• Woody emphasizes that “murder never goes away” and urges continued listener activism.

Timestamp: 04:00–10:00

---

2. Recorded Call: Ms. Barbara Johnson vs. Cobb County DA’s Office

A lengthy, tense call in which Ms. Johnson presses DA Louie Hutter and ADA Jared Harowitz about why murder charges haven’t been brought against Brooks Cleary.

a. Double Jeopardy Cited as the Obstacle

• DA’s office claims all charges arising from the same incident must be brought simultaneously; since Brooks was prosecuted for concealing a body, pursuing murder now would violate double jeopardy.
  • Quote: “It doesn’t work that way. What it’s about is the incident itself… they all have to be charged at the same time on the same indictment.” (Louie Hutter, 22:53)

b. The Evidence Issue

• DA asserts that all available evidence at the time was used, and nothing new is present to support a murder charge.
  • Ms. Johnson pushes back, noting that evidence such as Brooks’s bloody shirt was not brought forth or was mishandled.
  • She alleges the investigation was incomplete and key witnesses were not interviewed.

c. Emotional Appeals and Systemic Frustration

• Ms. Johnson pleads for empathy, asking the DA to imagine if it were their daughter. She is persistent that the system would act differently if the victim was personally connected to the prosecutors.
  • Quote: “Imagine the female that you love most in this world…imagine the day after that, that female that you love the most in the world is laying in her home dead, and nobody will help you get justice for her.” (Ms. Barbara Johnson, 34:39)
• The DA acknowledges the emotional devastation of the case but maintains that they cannot violate law or ethics.
  • Quote: “We are bound by the law. We are bound by our ethical and moral duty.” (Louie Hutter, 41:00)

d. Ms. Johnson’s Counterpoints

• Critiques the DA for “wanting a perfect record” instead of risking an imperfect circumstantial case.
• Insists that circumstantial cases are prosecuted all the time, and the evidence is more than enough.
  • Quote: “People get prosecuted on circumstantial evidence all the time. It’s beyond a reasonable doubt. And nobody that’s seen the case has a reasonable doubt that he didn’t do it.” (Ms. Barbara Johnson, 49:44)

e. Investigative Lapses

• Ms. Johnson points out missed opportunities, such as not interviewing certain witnesses and mishandling physical evidence.
  • Key moment: She reveals a resident above where Brooks parked was never contacted (42:32).
  • ADA and DA argue they have already exhausted all investigative avenues, but Ms. Johnson says not all possible steps were followed.

Timestamps: Main call begins at 12:30 and runs through 52:00

---

3. Host Commentary & Call to Action

• Woody intersperses commentary and frustration about the DA’s handling throughout.
• Asserts that public pressure (“lifers blowing up their phones”) is the only reason action has occurred so far.
• Urges listeners to continue circulating the case and calling in tips.
  • Quote: “Keep making your comments on his Facebook pages and stuff like that, and we’re going to continue to move forward.” (Woody Overton, 10:35)

Timestamp: Throughout; main call to action at 09:54–10:35

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Raw Exchanges

• Woody Overton:
  • “There’s not a person in the world who doesn’t believe it’s murder. They’re just saying: ‘Oh, we can’t. Sorry, we can’t try him for murder because we tried for concealment of the body and whatever else he did.’ It’s so…” (07:10)
• Ms. Barbara Johnson:
  • “Everybody knows it’s a murder.” (28:55)
  • “If you know somebody committed a murder and you don’t have the evidence, then what do you do? … You investigate more and get more information and then you can go forward with it.” (31:44–31:57)
• Louie Hutter (DA):
  • “All it would take is for one juror to say no, and then we have nothing. Like, he wouldn't even have nothing now for—well, he's in jail now, at least." (29:54–30:44)

Emotional Peak

• Ms. Johnson’s plea for empathy and justice for her daughter, urging prosecutors to imagine their own loved ones in the same situation, stands out as the episode’s most emotionally charged moment (34:39–36:04).

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Woody’s Intro & Rant on Systemic Issues: 04:00–10:00
• Call to Action (listeners): 09:54–10:35
• Beginning of Phone Call (Ms. Johnson + DA/ADA): 12:30
• DA’s Double Jeopardy Explanation: 22:53
• Discussion about Evidence and Bloody Shirt: 28:05–29:36; 44:11–47:07
• Ms. Johnson’s Empathetic Plea: 34:39–36:00
• Circumstantial Evidence Frustration: 49:09–50:54

---

Conclusion & Next Steps

• Final Host Commentary: Woody promises this is part one of a two-part update, with more from Ms. Barbara Johnson to come, and reminds listeners that activism and pressure remain critical to keeping these cases in the spotlight.
  • “You’ll be so mad when you get done listening to this that you’re going to be spitting fire. And this is only half of it.” (08:42)
  • Listeners are encouraged to keep calling tips to 313-RLRC-TIP and sharing their outrage on public forums.

---

Tone:
The tone is raw, impassioned, and confrontational. Woody is deeply frustrated with the criminal justice system. Ms. Johnson is unfiltered in her heartbreak and anger; the DA’s office maintains a calm but legalistic and, at times, defensive posture.

---

This summary covers major discussion points, memorable moments, and key quotes, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Podcast Host - Advertiser]

One of the hardest parts of getting older is feeling like something's off in your body but not knowing exactly what. It's not just aging, it's often your hormones too. When they fall out of balance, everything feels off. But here's the good news. This doesn't have to be the story of your next chapter. Hormone Harmony by Happy Mammoth is an herbal formula made with science backed ingredients designed to fine tune your hormones by balancing estrogen, testosterone, progesterone and even stress hormones like cortisol. It helps with common issues such as hot flashes, poor sleep, low energy, bloating and more. With over 40,000 reviews and a bottle sold every 24 seconds, the results speak for themselves. A survey found 86% of women lost weight, 77% saw an improved mood, and 100% felt like themselves again. Start your next chapter feeling balanced and in control for a limited time. Get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth.com with code NextChapter at checkout. Visit happymammoth.com today and get your old self back naturally.

This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping and this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.

I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal game changer. I earn more and they do everything.

Selling seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million.

Members and I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else.

Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal earn more, save time, sell fast and right now you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com if you're the purchasing.

[Woody Overton]

Manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

You have the right to remain Silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney prior to enduring any question. If you can't afford one, the court appoint one for you. Do you understand your rights?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

When the wolf is at your f you running over that's for sure.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

Already.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Knows all about you.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Cut you down no matter about you now you better walk the line.

[Woody Overton]

Warning this episode of Real Life, Real Crime. The podcast may contain descriptions of acts of violence or that of a sexual nature and should be for people that are 18 years or older. He my warning people, I do not.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

Get the facts of these cases off.

[Woody Overton]

Of the Internet or for some television show. The facts I'm retelling, you were presented to me by the victims of the crimes or the perpetrators who committed the.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

Crimes against the victims.

[Woody Overton]

My descriptions of the crime scenes, what I saw with my own two eyes.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

If you're going to get offended, please turn this podcast off now. Thank you. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Real Life, Real Crime, the podcast. As always, I'm your host, Woody Overton. All right, today I'm gonna be doing something that's very near and dear to my heart. It's been going on way too long. We. We are going to start the conclusion of hashtag JusticeForHaly. And what you're going to hear is Ms. Barbara on the phone with the DA from Cobb County, Georgia, and her minions trying to say that they can't try Brooks Cleary for murder because it would be double jeopardy, which is just absolutely not. But you listen to how I want you to listen to how Ms. Barbara stands her ground. I want you to listen to the fight of a mother then, and it shouldn't have to be that way. If you go back and you listen to all the episodes, you'll hear each one of these assistant district attorneys saying it was murder. They said it themselves. But then, yeah, they pussyfooted around and charged them what they charged them with, but they didn't charge them with murder. And therefore, I mean, you could certainly charge someone with murder after you charge them for the destruction of police property and moving a body. You never charged for murder. It's an upgraded charge, but they also didn't do dick and it's my fault. Want to have the faith and the belief and in the new da and then when she got on the phone and said that she was going to have her top investigator on it, and we waited months and months and months and months and got dick, and finally life started pressing again. And so she says she's going to have a call, and it still took two more months. And this is the biggest crock of I've ever heard in my entire career. And they know it. Then they just figure they're going to bite the bullet. Go ahead. Because their life was blowing them up again. And that comes in the next episode we're going to do. Not today's episode, but anyways, this is going to be the recording of Miss Barbara being ganged up on, in my opinion, by the Cobb county district attorney and her minions, the assistant prosecutors and what have you. And it's a crock of. And all you new lifers that are here because of hashtag just for Bradley and hashtag justice for ao, you can go back and listen to it. When we had the videos of everything, the whole crime scene, the whole nine yards, the statements, the. I mean, we basically work the case for them, and there's not a person in the world who doesn't believe it's murder. They're just saying, oh, we can't. Sorry, we can't try him for murder because we tried it for concealment of a body and whatever else he did. It's so. But this is part one of two, and when we get done part two, I'm going to have Ms. Barbara on and let her tell you she's written a letter and everything else to you lifers. But the. I'm gonna let her tell you in her own words, and that'll be next week or the week after. But the hashtag justice for Bradley, hashtag justice for AO. Continue to call your tips 313RLRC tip. These are real people. Real families are hurting, right? And just like Ms. Barbara, you could hear it in her voice from this phone call standing up for her daughter because nobody else is going to stand up for Haley. And, you know, y' all lifers did. But continue calling you tips. Yes, I was in Vernon Parish, and yes, I was inside the Vernon Parish jail. And I'll say this. The I saw Sam Kraft. He naturally, he didn't speak to me. But the. The people that I had contact with, being the staff that I first ID myself to and the warden, super professional, they treated me very, very professionally. And I appreciate that. Not an easy deal when you have public enemy number one basically coming in into your house and into your fold. But they were. They were the ultimate professionals, and I thank them for their professionalism. Now, I cannot tell you why I was there and what I was doing. I just can't. And the. I know Morgan Bagg gets frustrated with me because I don't tell her stuff. Well, I just can't. And I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize any investigation, period. But the Vernon Parish. Yeah, I was there for a few minutes, a few days, right. I think four total. But the. It's all good. But I wasn't staying there. Definitely going back and forth in the. If things are moving, keep up the pressure. Keep it up. Keep it up. We. We don't want it to be. You know, you'll hear the. The hurt in Ms. Barbara's voice. You know, hashtag. Just for Haley. I don't know what the acronym or what the words is we'll put after that. But basically, that's screwed. But one thing that happens is murder never goes away. If we have to wait for the new district attorney to get in or what have you. But I fully expect you'll be so mad when you get done listening to this that you're going to be spitting fire. And this is only half of y'.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

All.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

We got another half hour recording with her on the phone with these people. And they given every excuse except for the right excuse. And when we get done and we talk to Ms. Barbara, we're going to do another call to action. The whole thing is they don't like the negative shit being put on their page. They want to put all this positive stuff about domestic violence and, you know, this and that and another. Well, you know what? I'm not gonna tell you what to say. I'm gonna let you. You say whatever. How. Are. Whatever you think this makes you feel. Okay. And I know how it makes me feel, so. But, you know, she even calls y' all Miss Barbara's little minions. And. And the one will play next week. So it's all about that. At least Haley's case got Spotlight. It got the coverage. And, yeah, it'll be what it's going to be. You can only push so far, you know, and go so far. That's it. When we get done, I'm allowed to know how I feel. And the call to action, Call of Duty, whatever you want to call it will be coming. So here, without further ado, let's do that. But three. One, three. Rlrc tip. Do not think for a second when I'm being quiet that I'm not not on things. I'm on them, and I'm on them every day. I would ask that you people try to stay focused. And I know it's hard for you because you're not Investigators. Right. But you don't need to know about Tom, Dick and Harry that never met Bradley before or Austin the Banyan. Yeah, just because you got a heart on them because they were your neighbor or something. That's not how it works. We got stick to the basics or you know what? Just call it. Keep calling your tips. I'll do the investigating. All right. Calling your tips. Keep making your comments on his Facebook pages and stuff like that, and we're going to continue to move forward. I can't explain it to you any more than that. Here comes Miss Barbara. Long awaited. Months. Months. Oh, it's going to be sooner than later. Months, phone call, which they never were going to do. And then lifers kept blowing them up. And so finally they figure they're going to make it go away. Well, you know what? We're not done with them yet. So here's Ms. Barber with the Cobb County District Attorney herself and her minions. And I'm Woody Overton. You host the Real Life Real Crown, the podcast. Until next time or ever. Don't let me catch you down on murder by you. Peace.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Hello?

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

Ms. Johnson?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yes.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Hi, good morning. This is Louie with the cottage attorney's office. How are you?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I'm okay. How are you?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I'm doing fine, thank you.

[Woody Overton]

I've got the DA on the other line.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

If you'll give me just a second.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We'Ll merge the calls and we'll get started here.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, thank you.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Thank you, Madam da. Yes. Okay, we're all on the same page here. All right, Ms. Johnson, we're all in different places, but I just wanted to give you a call. I've been getting word from Vereesca that she's been speaking with you from my assistant. So I wanted to touch back up with you. I know we had met and at that time we discussed as reviewing your case from the previous administration. He met with me and I believe ADA Jared Harowitz.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yes.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

And all of us are present. If everybody can just identify who's present. Hey, Barbara. Jared and I are here. Hey, Barbara.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Hi.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

And of course, we just spoke. I'm Louie Hutter.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Hi. I don't think I've met you before, but.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

No, ma', am, probably not. So I just wanted to let you know that we have gone through this case off, like to the point where I think, you know, the ADAs are just kind of, you know, all the things that I took notes with. That's it. You know, a lot of notes. When I talked to you the first time, and I have gone through and have discussed with, you know, Ms. Green and Mr. Harold about every detail of all those things. And there are things that I learned that I didn't know at the time when I was talking to you. But none of those things amount to what we would need to be able to surpass a claim of double jeopardy.

[Woody Overton]

Hey y', all, I want to take a moment to recommend another podcast called Mind of a the Killer Nurse. Mind of a Monster is a podcast series from ID that dives into the minds of notorious serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, and more. This season they explore the chilling story of Kristen Gilbert, a nurse who murders four of her patients between 1989 and 1995 and is suspected of killing dozens more. Chronopsychologist Dr. Michelle Ward takes us inside Kristen's twisted mind, uncovering why she kills and how she manages to do it right in front of her colleagues. The entire season is out now, so you can binge it wherever you get your podcast. And coming up next, they're covering Israel Keys, a serial killer who picks his victims at random across the US and covers his tracks with terrifying precision. That new season drops early next year. Don't miss it, lifers. I know you love to get inside the mind of evil, just like I do, and the Mind of a Monster podcast series from ID is fire. You are going to love it. Listen to A Mind of a Monster, the Killer Nurse wherever you get your podcast. I'll be honest, I've always had a hard time shutting my brain down at night to get to sleep. Then I tried Mood Sleepy Time Gummies and that changed everything. Did you know there's an online cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door? They've even figured out how to combine THC with carefully selected functional ingredients to target nearly every mood you can think of. I'm talking about Mood.com's incredible line of functional gummies, and right now you can get 20% off your first order at mood.com with promo code RLRC. Forget one size fits all supplements that only get you high. Mood's Functional Gummies are optimized to kick in in as little as 15 minutes and take you exactly where you want to go, whether that's Mind Magic Gummies for deep focus and creativity. PMS support gummies to balance mood swings or their sexual euphora. Gummies to help you feel ready for action. Mood has something that fits the moment. Sure, you can find gummies to just get you high pretty much anywhere these days, but Mood's Functional Gummies combine premium federally legal THC with targeted botanicals to help you hit that perfect mood, usually in as little as 15 minutes. And everything ships discreetly right to your door. No dispensary lines, no awkward conversations, and just better days and nights delivered straight to you. Best of all, every Mood product comes with a hundred days satisfaction guarantee. And as I mentioned, the listeners get 20% off their first order with code RLRC. So head to mood.com, find the gummy that matches exactly what you're looking for and let Mood help you discover your perfect vibe. And don't forget to use promo code RLRC at checkout to save 20% on your first order. You know, folks talk a whole lot about women's hormones, but hardly anybody explains what that actually means for them. Most women end up confused, overwhelmed and not sure what to do next. And as we head into the holidays, nobody needs more confusion piled on top of everything else. I've watched Cindy deal with this herself. You hear people say your health starts in your gut, but for women, it really starts with their hormones. When those levels aren't what they should be, everything just feels a little off. Your energy, your comfort, your mild mood shifts, even how steady you feel day to day. So as the new year gets closer, imagine being able to hip reset and support your body and maintaining optimal hormone levels. That's where Hormone Harmony comes in. An award winning German nutrition scientist created a powerful herbal formula that brings together 12 plant based adaptogens in one capsule. Every ingredient is chosen based on scientific evidence and proven effective in clinical studies for women of all different ages and hormone profiles so you can feel your best through the holidays. Cindy's been taking Hormone Harmony and I've noticed a difference. She feels more balanced, more steady and more like herself. Even with everything going on with the shows, our travel and the holiday rush, it's a real game changer for women who want science backed support that brings comfort, clarity, consistent energy, confidence and an overall sense of well being. Happy Mamma, the company behind Hormone Harmony has zero compromise policy. No GMOs, no artificial fillers, no artificial flavors, nothing unnecessary. Only science backed ingredients in clinically proven amounts and They've helped over 2.4 million women feel more like themselves again, even after years of feeling off. They surveyed 1831 women who tried Hormone Harmony and the Results were incredible. 86% noticed easier weight management, 77% said it supported their mood and overall well being and 100% said they're feeling like themselves again. What makes Hormone Harmony stand out is that it supports multiple hormone imbalances at the same time, creating a wave of benefits throughout the body, from more steady energy to a better overall mood to reduce occasional bloating and greater daily comfort. In the reviews, don't lie. Over 50,000 women are talking about better energy, deeper sleep, feeling more balanced and calm, reduced occasional bloating and easier weight management alongside a healthy lifestyle. That's the kind of gift any woman deserves. Heading into the new year this holiday season, give yourself or the woman in your life the gift of wellness. And for a limited time, you get 15% off your entire first order at Happy Mammoth.com just use the code RLRC at checkout. You can try Hormone Harmony risk free and get 15% off your first order with code RLRC at checkout. Cold Mornings Holiday Plans this is when I need my wardrobe to just work. That's why I'm all about quints. They make it easy to look sharp, feel good, and find gifts that last. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, Quint's pieces are crafted from premium materials and built to hold up without the luxury markup. Now, y' all know I like it simple, clean, reliable. The staples and the thing I've been reaching for most lately is their Italian leather everyday sneaker. I've worn these things everywhere to the studio, running errands, traveling, even out in the cold. They're real Italian leather, crazy comfortable, and they look way more expensive than what I paid. They're holding up better than half the designer stuff I've owned. Quince makes the essential every guy needs Mongolian cashmere sweaters for 50 bucks, Italian wool coats that look and feel designer and denim and chinos that fit just right. Their outerwear lineup is no joke. Down jackets, wool top coats, and leather styles that are built to last. Each piece is made from premium materials by trusted factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. By cutting out the middleman of traditional markups, Quint delivers the same quality as luxury brands at a fraction of the price. It's everything you actually want to wear. Built to hold up season after season, those Italian leather sneakers I picked up are exactly what I want this time of the year. Simple, sharp, durable, and they go with everything. And as the holidays get closer, Quint's has gifting covered beyond clothing. If you need something for home bath, kitchen or travel, they've got it. And the quality is just a solid. Get your wardrobe sorted in your gift list. Handle with Quince. Don't wait. Go to Quince.com RLRC for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada. Also. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com RLRC free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com RLRC constitutionally, this case has been.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Tried that not for the same charge.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

It doesn't work that way. What it's about is the incident itself. It's not about the charge. You can't charge somebody with something and then come back and charge them with another thing and then come back and charge them with another thing if it rises out of the same instant. They all have to be charged at the same time on the same indictment. And if it goes to trial, it has to be on that indictment and tried at that time.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Well, Stephanie and I think I gave.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

You an example of There was a case where a lady, she was stopped by the police, she had cocaine on her. They arrested her for the cocaine and went to trial. She then went to prison. She got out of prison and the officer came in contact with her again in a different situation, but charged her. Then for the first time that he encountered her, she was within 500ft of a schoolyard. So he charged her with being within 500ft of a schoolyard. And the court were clear like it's double jeopardy if it's the same incident or arises from the same incident, it has to be charged. At that time.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Stephanie told me that if, if we did the concealing a body charge that we could later charge him with murder. That's what she told me several times.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

If there was evidence to support it, that's different from what was presented during trial. And there's not. I mean, every single piece of evidence that we could potentially put forth in a murder trial would be identical to what was presented during the concealing death trial, which prohibits us from going forward.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

You didn't present the professional psychiatrist guy in court that for the first trial.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

But we had that information.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

So you're telling me if, if Brooks gets out, I see him somewhere, I punch him in the face, he gets shot, I punch him. And you clearly have me punching him. And I say I punched him, and you try me for that and whatever it is, assault, whatever, and later you find out I'm the one that shot him. Even like on the evidence that you already had, you're saying I would get off on the murder just because you didn't try that at first?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Well, if we had the exact same evidence for the punching as the shooting, how is it that we don't know it was you the first time. I mean that.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Because you went through evidence that you didn't go through the first time because the, the first investigation. First investigation was botched.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

That's not how it works.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Not in Cobb County.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Protection against double jeopardy is. You can't go. All right, I see this, this woman who's obviously extremely hurt. I can understand why she would, you know, in your hypothetical, punch Mr. Cleary and shoot Mr. Cleary. So I'm going to choose to only prosecute her for this.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, I know.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I mean, I mean, not the shooting. And then I can't come back and go, you know what? She actually should have been prosecuted for aggravated assault. Now I'm in the charger for that.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, I'm saying later on, you find evidence that you had. You just didn't see it the first time. Say somebody turned in a, I don't know, a video of it, and you just, for some reason, y' all missed it. You're saying that even though you had that evidence, you can't try then turn around and try me for murder?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We don't have that evidence in this case, Barbara.

[Podcast Host - Advertiser]

Jesus.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

God forbid. Like, there's. And there's other stuff that you didn't have. Like y' all didn't even hear him calling her a bitch in the 911 call.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We played the 911 call.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

But you didn't hear him call calling her a. In the 911 call.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Even if he were to call her A, I, I, I understand.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I'm just saying.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

That that's not how she died. And then he calls her A. That doesn't prove that he shot her.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay. The ME doesn't, doesn't say how she died. It's undetermined. Which means who knows how she died.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Right. Which is one of our biggest problems. And we talked about that. And the reality is, I mean, we put forth everything we had, and when we spoke to the jury afterwards, they were not convinced of that.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, you didn't put everything you had because why was his shirt, his bloody shirt not ever brought up? Why was I lied to about that time and time again?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I'm confused as to what the shirt itself, what would that help prove?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, it would prove, A, that he went and changed clothes. B, you could look at the shirt and the blood spatter and see if that's, you know, consistent with a gunshot or if it looks like it's smeared on. I mean, there are a million, like, they, they actually, like, prosecute.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

And Ms. Johnson.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yes.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I. I just want to be honest with you and ask you a question. Do. Why do you think that this office would not want to charge him with murder? I mean, if there's a murder, that is precisely what we do.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Everybody knows it's a murder.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I have all of it. Just knowing or what you feel. It's about what you can prove. And you. We've explained that with how evidence works. We could have presented. And I say we, meaning this office. I was not here when this happened, so I am kind of getting looped in with the previous administration with all the things that you. You have people writing on my page. You're acting like I did this, and I'm not doing anything but just trying to take a look at it to see if there's something it's really not, you know?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, the thing.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

But even going beyond that, why would anyone who goes into this career with the purpose of, like, seeking justice and putting people away when we can. Why would anyone not want to charge this with murder?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I have no idea.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

They didn't charge this with murder is because they wanted to be able to at least put him in jail for the things that they knew that they could get him a charge on. And from what I understand, that was even almost a thing that didn't happen. So I believe that if there was enough there to go with murder, they would have gone with murder. Reviewing this case for all these months and looking at all these things, there's not enough to say that he murdered her. All it would take is for one juror to say no, and then we have nothing. Like, he wouldn't even have nothing now for. Well, he's in jail now, at least.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

For what, a year?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

A year? Yeah.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

He can be out in a year or two.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

11.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

11. But he can get out for a good time or whatever the hell y' all do. I don't know, but I. I don't.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Know why, first of all, so.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

And I. Yeah, I know whoever it. I know it's the justice system. I understand, but what I'm saying is he. He can be out soon. And I don't know why you didn't try it for murder. I mean, I. I get like, you want it to be, you know, you want your record to be this or that, and you want it to be a certain, you know, like, make sure that it's a thousand percent before you. But if, you know, somebody committed a murder. I've seen people convicted on way less than what you have on him.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Barbara, we've explained to you over and over and over again why we do not prosecute.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, okay, look, if you know somebody committed a murder and you don't have the evidence, then what do you do? What do you do?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

You can't charge them. You can't go forward with it.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, you can investigate more and get more information and then you can go forward with.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

What more can you get from a scene where it's a room where two people were and no one else is present?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

People get information all the time. They do it all the time. His friend who had his phones, who I fully believe was at least involved in helping him that night. You haven't even pressed him, Margaret.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We did. We brought Monster in multiple times.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I saw the interviews. It was like a bro fest. It was not like an interrogation.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I never saw an interview that. That Jared and I conducted with him because it wasn't recorded. We brought him into this office three separate times. And he testified. In addition to law enforcement.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yeah. And he lied. And y' all knew. He lied about what? He told us all the time that he went straight home that night, but.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Then he sat in his car for 30 minutes because he had a bad feeling in the. This billing Tuesday. He testified to all of us.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yeah, he testified to it after lying to us about it. Why would he lie? What point would he have to lie about that?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Tremendous amount of guilt for not going back up there. But that doesn't change.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I love how you jump to, like all these links to make excuses for why Brooks did what he did or why Mazda did what he did. The fact is, you all know he's a murderer. Every one of you knows that it was a murder. So if you know it's a murder, then investigate further and find out.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Go back multiple private investigators. We did every single thing we could. All of those efforts combined did not move the needle.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Then you keep looking. You don't just let murderers out because it's too hard to look for more information. I want all of you to please do me one favor. And I mean I want you to do it. I don't want you to pretend you're doing it. Please do this for me.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Nobody is pretending to do anything when I talk to you. I do everything that I'm telling you I'm going to do. I, of all people and someone who does exactly what they say they're going to do. Ms. Johnson. And I am trying to be very, very patient because I cannot fathom what it would be like. I have a daughter and I have sat at home and cried about your case. Your case. On a Sunday. Your case.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

So can I please finish. Can I please. Can I please finish what I was saying?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Sure, Ms. Johnson.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Thank you. Can you please all just do me this one favorite? I want you to imagine the female that you love most in this world. Can I please finish my. Can I please finish what I'm saying? Imagine the female that you love most in this world. You're gonna have Thanksgiving dinner with them tomorrow. You'll see them. You'll have family time. Imagine the day after that. That female that you love the most in the world is laying in her home dead, and nobody will help you get justice for her. And you know, and I know if it was yours, you would find a way. But imagine her sweet little brain lying on the floor. Her intact fucking brain lying on the floor because of a monster. Now, whatever you would do for yours, please do for mine.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I can't share with you what I do for mine.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Please, whatever it takes, please do for mine. Because I can't tell you she. She and Stella are all I have in this world.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I get it. You know that this was a devastating case for Jared and I. You know that repeatedly. And that it affected us tremendously. That is why we took all the steps we did, because our hearts broke for you. And I cannot even begin to imagine the pain that you have suffered ever since that day. I genuinely feel for you. And if there was a way, legally and ethically, for us to.

[Woody Overton]

You know, there was a stretch where I just couldn't figure out why I felt so drained all the time. No matter how much I slept, I was exhausted, foggy, and even little things like keeping my focus felt harder than they should. I brushed it off thinking it was just stress or being busy, but it turned out my iron levels were way lower than I realized. That's why I was excited to learn about Sideroll. It's not your typical iron supplement. It's powered by something called sucrosomil technology which helps your body actually absorb three to four times more iron while avoiding the common issues you hear about with traditional iron, like nausea or stomach upset. It's backed by over 150 clinical studies and trusted worldwide. Sideroll is actually Italy's number one supplement brand and is now available here in the us. I love that it's just one capsule a day with vitamin C included, so it easily fits into my routine. Plus it's vegan, gluten free and allergen free, so it works to just about anyone ever feel like no matter how much you rest, you're still running on empty.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

You're not alone.

[Woody Overton]

Over 2 million people worldwide have already discovered Sideerall and it could be the support you've been looking for. Head to farmernutral-us.com and use code RLRC for 10% off your first order of Citirol. That's P H A R M A N U T r a u s.com promo code RLRC for 10% off today. Real life, Real Crime the podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are the things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Podcast Host - Advertiser]

One of the hardest parts of getting older is feeling like something's off in your body, but not knowing exactly what. It's not just aging, it's often your hormones too. When they fall out of balance, everything feels off. But here's the good news. This doesn't have to be the story of your next chapter. Hormone Harmony by Happy Mammoth is an herbal formula made with science backed ingredients designed to fine tune your hormones by balancing estrogen, testosterone, progesterone and even stress hormones like cortisol. It helps with common issues such as hot flashes, poor sleep, low energy, bloating and more. With over 40,000 reviews and a bottle sold every 24 seconds, the results speak for themselves. A survey found 86% of women lost weight, 77% saw an improved mood and 100% felt like themselves. Start your next chapter feeling balanced and in control for a limited time. Get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth.com with code Next Chapter at checkout. Visit happy mammoth.com today and get your old self back naturally.

This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping and this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.

I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal game changer. I earn more and they do everything.

Seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items Sell fast to our 38 million.

Members and I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else.

Exactly. This. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The real real. Earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now, you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com. that's therealreal.com.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

But we are bound by the law. We are bound by our ethical and moral duty.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Well, I'm telling you. Why don't you watch Dateline? Because I'm. I see it every day, all day. They go back, they find more information, or they do this or they do that, but they don't stop. They don't just go, well, you know, we know it's a murderer, but we're just gonna let him out.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

But you're talking about Dateline, Ms. Johnson. We're talking about someone who's been tried already. And all the evidence, it's still the same evidence.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I know it happens, but there. But you can get more. All you need is one little piece. All you need is one little piece of evidence. You don't think by going back and talking, like, to the witnesses and the people at the apartments that didn't get interviewed in the beginning, like maybe you could find out something from them?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We did all of that.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, you didn't. A girl reasoning. A girl reads. Not till he's in prison for murder.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

No.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Would you be satisfied if this was your daughter and her brain was lying on the floor like a piece of trash? Would you be satisfied, Barbara?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

What do you want us to do?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Investigate further.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I want you to do whatever and take illegal action.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

It's illegal to investigate further.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We've done that, Barbara.

[Woody Overton]

Oh, God.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We've done it and we've done it again. And we've done it again and nothing has changed.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

I'm telling you, you didn't interview everybody because a girl that. That her apartment is just above where he parked his truck, reached out to me and said nobody ever talked to her.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Was she in the apartment with Brooks and Haley?

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, she wasn't in the apartment with Brooks and Haley, but she wasn't interviewed. And the people who were around that may have heard something might have.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Your own private investigators literally didn't come.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Because I didn't have the money to pay them to keep going. I don't. I'm on disappointment ability. It's not my job to find out and to get information and to investigate. That's not even my job. But I paid all I could pay. They're not cheap.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Ms. Johnson, let's just look at this. Like what you just said you paid all you could pay. What if there was this expectation because you couldn't pay more that somehow you didn't pay all you could pay? That's how I feel. Like you're. You're viewing us when there's nothing left for us to do. And we've done it two, three, four, five times. It's still not enough, but we've done it. If you're saying you didn't have enough money to pay or you couldn't pay any further, and we took that same approach with you. I mean, we never get anywhere and we never get to where it's.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

So.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I understand that. It's troublesome to me, and I wasn't even involved in it. Like, I'm looking at the people here like, why. Why y' all do this? And why do y' all do that? And then they're, like, showing me this is where.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, okay, explain to me.

[Woody Overton]

Just.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Just.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

And. And I keep asking, and nobody will explain to me. Please explain to me. Why his shirt. I don't understand that even. Why did. Why was his shirt not brought out? Why was I told multiple times that you never found his shirt? I don't understand that. And I don't understand why it was given. No, they kept telling me they never found a shirt that he was wearing.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We didn't.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

It was in the evidence that was given back to me.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Brooks bloody shirt where he was holding your daughter that. Are you covered in blood in.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Oh, no, not the white shirt he was wearing. The shirt that he was wearing when he did it. It's covered in blood. It's got pieces of matter in.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

The checkered shirt. The flannel.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, the hoodie. That she was wearing that he must have been wearing.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Well, it wasn't.

[Woody Overton]

Must have.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I mean, where are you getting this from? She was wearing a hoodie.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, this is a hoodie. Hoodie that he must have had on because it's not the same thing.

[Podcast Host - Advertiser]

She.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

It was getting that from.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Pardon?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Where are you getting that from? He was wearing.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Well, I saw what she was wearing.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

So.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

So she wasn't wearing it. It's a bloody. I don't. I don't recall exactly what she was wearing, but I know that it wasn't this shirt because I went back and looked. I know she was wearing her. I know because I can't stand to look at the pictures. But I know that she wasn't wearing this shirt, and I know she was wearing her little pajama pants that I bought her for Christmas. This shirt is what he must have been wearing because it's covered in blood and matter.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I mean, the whole living room is covered in blood and matter. So does the shirt crew. Who pulled the trigger. I mean, every.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Everybody, okay? He laid this. This out and played everything and showed all the videos, the podcast. Everybody, including everybody involved in the case, has said. Has said. Woody Overton has said this is a murder. I have not heard one person ever say, oh, I don't think this is a murder ever.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Barbara, you haven't listened to people who said that.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Okay, so who said it?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

I wouldn't want to either if I were you.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

You all said it. You all know it. Everybody knows it. You said it.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

We all agree that these circumstances were extremely suspicious, but we.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

That's not what you said. That's not what you said. We all know this is murder. You've all said it.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

And we proceeded on the charges. We believe we could prove beyond reasonable doubt, and that is our ethical duty. We can't just bring charges where we have a suspicion.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

It's not a suspicion. Everybody knows it. Everybody from the first officer that walked on the scene, they said, it's a murder.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Barbara, you remember we had that difficult conversation where we said, how are we supposed to rebut some story by the defense that she had the gun in her mouth and she was threatening to kill herself? And Brooke said, good. Where.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Where did you come up with that?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

You and I haven't had this conversation.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yeah, I mean. I mean, yes, you can say. You can say anything you want to say. That doesn't mean that it's. That a jury will go, oh, yeah, that's probably what happened.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Yeah. But on a circumstance, we are required by law to disprove every alternative theory beyond a reasonable doubt in addition.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Well, that doesn't happen in cases where people get convicted, because it just doesn't. You can. I mean, I mean, honestly, anybody could have come in that apartment and killed her and left. So you can't disprove that. The neighbor, the apartment manager lady, could have come in and killed her.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

So listen to what you just said. Listen to what you just said.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Yeah.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Because of that. That is why we can't move forward with murder charge.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

No, that's not reasonable, and you know that. And everybody knows that. If that was the case, if you had to prove in court, there would never be a circumstantial. Case that ever got solved because there's. Unless you have a video recording of it, there's no way to prove what happened, period. But circumstantial cases get solved all the time. People get prosecuted on circumstantial evidence all the time. It's beyond a reasonable doubt. And nobody that's seen the case has a reasonable doubt that he didn't do it.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Barbara, we can go around and around and around forever, but the bottom line is Jared and I and this office and Madam DA are not going to violate our oath that we took to be lawyers in order to do something on this case that is outside the bounds of the law. And that would be unethical. I mean, that's the bottom line.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Well, investigate. Doing a. Doing a proper investigation instead of a botched one is not unethical, but actually it is ethical hurt.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

You know, just refuse to accept it. We have done it.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

You haven't. You don't even know what's going on about the goddamn shirt.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

The shirt gets us nowhere.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Barbara. If you throw out all the evidence, of course you won't get anywhere.

[Assistant District Attorney (ADA) Jared Harowitz]

Yeah. The rights remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have a rights as an attorney prior to it during any question. But you can't afford one. The court of appoint one for you. Do you understand your rights?

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

And the wolf is at your door.

[Podcast Host - Advertiser]

You rock.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

Morning's over, that's for sure. You already knows all about you.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Cut.

[Ms. Barbara Johnson]

You down no matter about you.

[Louie Hutter - Cobb County District Attorney's Office]

Now you better walk alive. You cry.

[Woody Overton]

The countdown is on at Dave Smith Motors. We're racing toward another year as America's number one GMC dealership. With over $10,200 in discounts on select new GMC models, now's the time to make your move. Come see why Dave Smith is known for hassle free buying and low, low, low prices. Dave Smith Motors where friends meet.

[Podcast Host - Advertiser]

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.