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Woody Overton
Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of True crime. Time for Saturday, May 9, 2026 and I'm Woody Overton. I'm Cindy Overton bringing you the stories together in the studio. So we're doing a special drop Mother's Day weekend Saturday. I'm sure you're all crawfish bowling and doing all the stuff you in South Louisiana you'd be wet. But crawfish boils must go on for Mother's Day and Happy Mother's Day Cindy. Thank you in the Try to make the best Mother's Day ever. And Happy Mother's Day to my mama and she's up in Dallas and so we won't get to be with her this year was probably the first time in a lot, a lot of years we haven't been together. But I hope you all, if your mothers are still with you, you love on them and give them some special love like they give you every day of the year, right?
Cindy Overton
That's right.
Woody Overton
So what do you, what do you want from Mother's Day Crawfish.
Cindy Overton
I always want for Mother's Day crawfish
Woody Overton
boy,
Cindy Overton
my kids together. Oh, you want Caitly to fly in with Ember, right?
Woody Overton
Right. I wish, I wish they could and they, but I'm sure you'll get phone calls and, and all that good stuff. But on this day in 1994, Joel Rifkin, who's always so known as the Long Island Serial Killer, was convicted after a trial for the murder of Tiffany Briscani. Rifkin was arrested after a high speed chase reaching 90 miles per hour. When once they cuffed him and stuffed him Rasana's body was discovered in his car. And then investigators do what they do and they broke me down like a little. And he confessed to 16 additional murders but only 15 of those 16 bodies were located. Right. So there you have it. The Thursday, this past Thursday night we got to go to Big J side porch for bingo In Madison's mama, Ms. Lynn Rollins showed up with her, her bestie and they were wearing the what happened to Madison shirts and, and they're another one of her male bestie friends and Big J, you know he's, he follows us huge and, and he got to meet him and some other lifers got to meet him and hugely very appreciative of the support the not doing the full blown episode on Madison this weekend. But y', all, it's more than just mass and but calling your tips 313-RLRC-TIP or call Zachary PD or Crime Stoppers or whoever you you want to call. Now I'll tell you this much. The case is proceeding the ads meetings this week and these there I'm going to give a shout out and you know who you are. This one person nutted up, stepped up and engaged very powerful information and they're like I don't give a damn. This, this is right. And they're willing, you know to help in any way they can. And y', all, it's not just Madison. And next week I'm going to be covering the young lady who supposedly went missing from that property in St. Francisville that was running through the woods on the like FaceTime. Someone saying get me out of here, I'm being chased. Etc. She's never been seen again. I think her first name is Stephanie. But we're gonna go into detail on her next week because not to take away from Madison because I think they're all interrelated and, and it needs to be done. But I want you to know this law enforcement is working on it. They. They have some really top notch guys that are working on it. Things are being done and. But your tips are invaluable and valuable. The. And I think it's Morgan Lamberth, the girl who was at the Purple Cow that, that saw Mr. Morris at night and in and all that. It's just, it's. It's a lot and there's a lot of moving pieces to it as it. There are in any case. But the. It's being worked and we're going to continue to work it and y' all need to keep it at the forefront of everybody's mind. And just remember, I mean I know people think, well these are high risk. These people, these girls were or these ladies were living a high risk lifestyle. Doesn't mean they should be murdered. And it just doesn't. It doesn't. If. What if your mama had an addiction and was living a high risk lifestyle, would you, would you take it in any less serious than if it was, you know, some. Someone else? I mean, I don't know how to explain that.
Cindy Overton
Well, my thought as you're saying this is Morgan Lambert isn't living or wasn't living.
Woody Overton
No, you're right. Absolutely right.
Cindy Overton
Had she not had her head on the swivel that night and was aware of her environment, well anything could have happened to her that night. She was aware of her environment.
Woody Overton
And so. That's right. So y' all everybody stay safe and just remember evil is out there. Now again, we. I don't have any direct knowledge that this like Ms. Lynn has posted and, and you've heard on the show about Mr. Morris and he heard Lambert saying that that was definitely Mr. Morris. We don't have any direct knowledge that he's done committed that he's committed any crimes. But the only things I've told you about is the things that are public record, public knowledge. The strangulation at. Of the attempted strangulation that he got arrested for. Zachary and you know, different things and people seeing him and stuff like that and what have you. Of course more Madison was. That's the last place she was seen and he lied to the police about that. He said on the phone one time, oh yeah, well she left and took everything within months. Later, when Ms. Lynn wouldn't get off of it, the. They brought him in for questioning this time. And then. And he changed it to no, she left. And. But she left all her stuff, including her phone and all her clothes. Well, who does that? I mean, yeah. So we don't. You know, it's. It's just a case that's being worked. We don't have any direct knowledge, but they better pray to God we don't get any direct knowledge or beyond a reasonable doubt. So. But it's being worked. And just don't forget about it. These are real people, y'. All. Well, that's what my point I'm trying to get across. These are real people who have real family members. Madison has kids that they know their mama's never come. Coming home. And Ms. Lynn's daughter Madison is never coming home. But what about these other girls who are never coming home? And then. Unfortunately not the. The. The girl from St. Francisville, because I know that went missing from St. Francisville. I know her family has been very actively involved. But there are females that are missing that had association in this lifestyle in this way that people don't. Are not inquiring about because they just didn't have the people who cared about them. So it's just very important. And. And yet that y' all remember, these are real people. And right now it's raining in. Madison's out there somewhere in the dirt or maybe in the water in. It's just sad. And. And we need to bring her body home. So please continue calling your tips and. And we appreciate y'. All. The hashtag just for Haley. This week. This past week was. Has been really crazy for Sen. And I. But Thomas Davenport, attorney at law has firm sent three items and we're gonna raffle two of them off and auction one of them all. But we need the time to do it correctly. So hopefully we'll get that done this week and get that started to raise the rest of the money for Scott Roeder in the evidence room. And I still haven't talked to Ms. Barbara. Ms. Barbara, again, I apologize, but I will be calling the. And you know, Ms. Barbara Blunt that her murder version was last week, and I hate that word, but she's still out there somewhere. And. What the. Yeah. And many more. Right, right, right. And then so many people, and it's just like people. I don't know if they're desensitized to it or. It's like. It's like a migraine. You. You know about people missing. But unless you're going through it and it's your person that's missing. You don't really, really get it.
Cindy Overton
It's just like you continue to say about people that have dealt with dementia and any. Really, any serious thing, like gut cancer. Like with my dad, I never got it until he had it right. I mean, like, you just don't know.
Woody Overton
Well, the, the main thing is whoever committed crimes against these females, let's say. Let's say they were. Let's say Madison. Let's say Madison was murdered. If she was murdered, then her body had to go somewhere. All right? You can't just make a body. I mean, I probably could, but the. You can make it disappear, but there's. You're going to leave an evidence trail at some point, but it has to be worked. And in. Unfortunately, when these cases get called in, a lot of times, you know, law enforcement gets it and it's just another. The 90% of the time, the. The person is just moved on down the road to another area, another drug area, because they didn't like in that area anymore, and they turn up later on. So you don't really take it that serious at first. And guess what they're doing. They still got crimes being committed every day that they're actively working. And, and, and so the hats off to them for stepping up and the. All the people that are stepping up. But those of you who are holding on to some information, man, don't be afraid. Just, you know, this person, one. One person that stepped up this week is just amazing. And we love that. And. And there's other people that know.
Cindy Overton
Absolutely.
Woody Overton
Yeah. I mean, they just are. These crimes were not done in a vacuum and we need to solve them. Right. So let's talk about crime. You know, I'm kind of cheating a little bit, but I'm gonna talk about Mother's Day crimes to start with. So the. I always tell you. What's the number one day? Well, super bowl for domestic violence crimes. Right. But the. Then usually the highest crime dates are like Memorial Day and in the Fourth of July, the holidays, stuff like that. Well, it gets what is usually. Or that is. I think it's pretty much a myth that Mother's Day is the lowest crime day of the year.
Cindy Overton
Good thing. Well, crime holiday.
Woody Overton
Right, Right. Well, they, they. That's always been said. But actually I looked it up and this is. Despite a popular meme claiming Mother's Day has the lowest crime rate, there is no evidence to support this. In accordance to Snopes and local news reports, While often cited as a peaceful day, specific high profile crimes, including domestic violence and homicides do occur. And some agencies even see upticks in certain calls during this period. Right, Yeah. I imagine a lot of that is brothers and sisters get together that are estranged and have to see their mom there, like, beat the shit out of each other, which, you know, not saying everybody's family is like that, but the certain families are. So. But let me tell you a couple about the. So no lowest crime proof. Now, analysis of crime databases in cities like New York and Minneapolis showed no significant decrease or unusual drop in arrest on Mother's Day compared to other Sundays. And the domestic violence risk organizations like San Antonio's Family Violence Prevention Services have reported an increase in domestic violence calls around Mother's Day, like our crawfish bull we're doing today. But then this contradicts the notion that it is a safe holiday. Right? High profile cases. Well, violent crimes do occur on the stage, such as the 2020 Mother's Day disappearance of Susan Morphew. And Colorado law enforcement agencies often run safety campaigns such as the Web County Sheriff's Office annual Crime Prevention Fair and Dance, which is aimed at protecting seniors from scams on Mother's Day. The idea that crime drops on Mother's Day is generally considered an urban legend or a viral social media narrative that is not backed by law enforcement statistics. So they went back to this Suzanne Morphew In 2020 I was talking about, she was a mother, too, who went missing on Mother's Day in Colorado. Her husband. They. They charged him initially with her murder, but the charges were later dropped, leaving the case as a prominent unsolved mystery with her body yet to be recovered. Right, back to what we're talking about. Well, guess what? Madison was a mama, too. And Madison's mama, Ms. Lynn, is missing.
Cindy Overton
Her.
Woody Overton
Yeah, of course.
Cindy Overton
And her kid.
Woody Overton
Right, right. So, tell you about another case, Jennifer Pan. It's. This is not directly on Mother's Day, but this case is frequently cited in discussions of murderers, children. Jennifer Pan hired hitmen to kill her parents in 2010, resulting in her mama's death. You know, I've spent a lot of years investigating some of the darkest cases out there and seeing things most people couldn't imagine. But I tell you this, the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with wasn't out on the scene. It was happening in my own mind. I have ocd, and for a long time, I didn't even realize that's what it was. You see, OCD is nothing like the stereotypes you hear about, it's not being neat or organized, and it's a serious condition and it's a lot more common than people think. It's these persistent, unwanted, intrusive thoughts that come in and don't let up. They cause real distress. And then you feel driven to do certain things, mentally or physically, and just to try to get some relief. But no matter what you do, those thoughts keep coming back. And the hardest part? They latch onto the things that matter most to you. Your family, your health, your relationships, even your identity. They can feel real, and that's what makes them so upsetting. I know a lot of y' all reached out to me about this over the years, so if any of this sounds familiar for you or someone you love, I want you to hear this. Real help exists. OCD is a highly treatable with the right kind of specialized therapy, specifically erp, or Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy, which has proven to be the most effective treatment. That's where NOCD comes in. NOCD provides specialized treatment for OCD and is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment. It's covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans and all their licensed therapists specialize in the ERP therapy. They'll work with you in live, face to face virtual sessions to help you learn how to take the power away from your intrusive thoughts so they don't cause the same level of distress. And they also provide support between sessions when you need it most so you're not facing OCD alone. If you think you or someone close to you might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait. Go to nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call with their team and find out how they can help. That's nocd.com feeling sluggish from all the
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Woody Overton
See site for details but her day 80 managed to survive. Isn't that crazy? So target mothers in 2024. Recent reports highlighted several cases of mothers slain by their children on around Mother's Day including cases involving Cheryl Lynch, Sarah Hankerson and others. Now historically murderous moms, right Like Susan Smith. You see that is up to get out of parole again. I mean I remember like it was yesterday. I was in North Carolina working at the fifth largest paper mill in the world working a shutdown. And remember every night there was not there was no Internet and all that but I remember you know it was breaking story and they kept searching da da da. And she's just a lion bitch. And then how they bust her was she said I was stopped this red light and the black guys took me out of Whether they come to find out the the light wouldn't turn. There had to be somebody else there. And she lied and she drowned. Strapped her babies in the car seat and drowned them and in the boat launch in the lake and they she's going to get out of jail and she did it because she was getting some dick from the rich boy in town and she. She didn't want to be tied down to her kids anymore. Right. So the. So I'll talk about it now. Infamous cases often discussed around the holiday include Susan smith who in 1994 drowned her children. And Diane Downs in 1983 shot her children to death. Ariana Davis homicide in 2024 a 10 year old girl killed on Mother's Day in a shooting linked to a larger series of violent crime. You know, it's crazy. Do you know how Mother's Day came about?
Cindy Overton
I'm sure some president's wife made him do it.
Woody Overton
Well the actually it kind of almost ties back to true crime. So after a lady named Ann Jarvis her death her daughter Anna Jarvis who lived between 1864 and 1948, set out to honor her mother's legacy by establishing a national Mother's Day on the second Sunday in May. The what? That's the day her mother died. That's how Mother's Day came about.
Cindy Overton
Yeah.
Woody Overton
So the, the now you know this. Our our listener base is like 70 something percent female, correct? Right. And they love their true crime. So why do moms love true crime, you might ask? Well, let's say moms are multitaskers by nature and true crime engages their minds in a way that other entertainment doesn't. And this one's like says, I analyze motives, piece together evidence, and try to predict the killer before the whatever documentary she's watching reveals the truth. She said, it's like a workout for the brain. It keeps her sharp even when she's knee deep in meal prep.
Cindy Overton
That's for sure. The game clue was one of my favorites growing up because you wanted to see you Ms. Col. Mustard killed in the library.
Woody Overton
Right? Right. Yeah. I love playing that scene. Yeah. All right, let me tell you a little bit more about Mother's Day. So the these are 20 interesting facts about Mother's Day. All right. They say beyond the flowers and heartfelt cards, there's a rich history and tradition surround mothers surrounding Mother's Day. From its humble beginnings to cultural traditions around the world, this day is as diverse and vibrant as the woman in honors. So, like everybody knows, notably, Mother's day falls on May 12th or the second Sunday in May. In celebration, all you awesome moms like Cindy, the. And all the extraordinary mothers out there. Right? Which mothers are extraordinary for putting up with our shit? The I'm gonna tell you some Mother's Day facts. All right? 1. Mother's Day was originally a protest against the war, says going against what I read earlier. Social activist Julia Ward Howe introduced Mother's Day to the United States following the Civil War. But her concept of the holiday was different from the one we know today. Hal's vision of Mother's Day was a day dedicated to promoting peace, where women would rally against the war. Some people continue to celebrate the holiday as a means of protest, one of them being a group of women who rallied against nuclear weapons in 1982. So they were like, never really celebrate Mom. We were just going to keep up protesting. All right, this is what I told you about. On May 12, 1907, Anna Jarvis conducted a ceremony to honor her late mom, who organized women's group to promote friendship and health. Jarvis then spearheaded the effort to establish a day of celebration honoring the role moms play in their families, which eventually led to the official recognition of Mother's Day as a national holiday in 1914. So it's been 112 years that we officially have a Mother's Day, Right? So Mother's Day founder tried to abolish a holiday. Well, what had been originally a special and intimate day of honor for moms eventually became a commercialized opportunity for sending gifts and cards. Valentine's right. In protest against this commercialization, Anna Jarvis tried to abolish the holiday before she passed in 1948. Well, let's go out to our Aussies. Right. In 1924, Janet Hayden, a woman from Sydney, Australia, started Tradition to assist lonely moms she encountered at Newton State Hospital while she was visiting to one of her friends. Hayden requested that schools and businesses donate gifts to women who lost their husbands and sons in the First World War. So it's what's worldwide. You. I don't ever think about mothers being days being worldwide. You think about it like this Thanksgiving. It's an American holiday.
Cindy Overton
Yeah, but like, Canada has their version of Thanksgiving, too. But there are, you know, people that do it that carried on the tradition from the.
Woody Overton
Where do you think the word mom came from? The wild variations of Mama M O, M M A and Mama M A, M M A. They're found in different languages around the world. Many linguists believe both words are derived from the sound babies and toddlers make when they aren't able to form full sentences yet, like mama. Pretty cool, right? I didn't know that. So a mom's voice has scientifically proven benefits for her child. I would believe that research shows that the sound of a mom's voice has common effects on their children, reducing the cortisol levels, or which is the body's main stress hormone, and increasing oxytocin, or the love or bonding hormone. I wish we could just. I wish we could just pump that out across the world, Right? Maybe. Maybe your. Your voice is giving some people oxytocin. Well, you got a lot more kids, students, and everybody else that loves you. Right. So guess what? And this is how it should be, actually. That should be. More gas burned, but more calls are made on Mother's Day than on any other day. In 2020, there was a 13% increase in voice calls on Mother's Day over a typical Sunday. So let this be. So let this be a remote reminder to let your mom hear the warmth of your voice on Mother's Day. And unfortunately, this year, my mother will have to hear that.
Cindy Overton
I know.
Woody Overton
Yeah. Yeah. You two from Caitlin. From Caitlin, Michelle and Embera. Right?
Cindy Overton
Yeah.
Woody Overton
So let's go out to Thailand. Oh, that's right. LA's gonna be on the rig. I forgot. He's not gonna be here either, so. Well, you know, pretty much happens when people grow up. We always would come see my mama regardless. And that the. You never bitched or complained about it, even though it was your day too. Right?
Cindy Overton
She's like the queen mom. And also, I think as a mom, when you see your kids thriving and they're out working and being great human beings, great moms and great providers. That does your heart just as good, if not more to not have them on Mother's Day.
Woody Overton
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you can totally, totally get it. Well, in France they really kicked it up notch at all. Moms certainly deserve a medal. And in France they were actually given one. During the 1920s, the country started awarding medals to moms of large families as a way of showing gratitude and appreciation for their role in helping rebuild the population after World War I. While the metal award and fright breed and get a medal. While the metal award and tradition has ended, the practice of giving flower shaped cakes to moms continue to this day.
Cindy Overton
But I don't want to medal.
Woody Overton
Well, you're getting a couple sacks of crawfish and something for dessert. I don't know what you get, but that's funny, right? So I moved the. My mama. My mama. I remember going sitting in church and we always had to go on Mother's Day tea. My mama always had the largest family in the church until the Kaz disease and they had us by one and but the, the priest would make them stand up and be acknowledged.
Cindy Overton
If you have one kid, stand up. If you have two kids.
Woody Overton
Right, right, right, right. And then we had seven. Right.
Cindy Overton
I remember doing that in the pride just of standing up for my, you know, for my kid.
Woody Overton
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you how far it goes back. The an ancient Greeks dedicated a spring festival to Raya, the mother of the gods and the goddess of fertility, motherhood and generation for Mother's Day. United Kingdom Mother's Day in the United Kingdom was originally established to encourage individuals to visit their local or their mother church for a special annual service. So Mother's Day is celebrated on various states globally. So I guess I don't know how it works out with bucking international date lines and all that. But while most countries celebrate Mother's Day on the second Sunday of May, others observe the holiday on different dates throughout the year. In the United Kingdom, Mothering Sunday falls on the fourth Sunday of Lent, which is typically in March. In Argentina, Mother's Day is celebrated on the third Sunday in October. Argentina is the only country to celebrate Mother's Day on that day. Shout out to them. Lisa's still celebrating it. The now what do you think mothers want for Mother's Day again for I
Cindy Overton
don't know what other mothers want. I know some bougie moms that want lots of stuff, but I want my kids in my presence and that's it.
Woody Overton
All right, well, a 2023 study reveals what moms want for Mother's Day. In one poll, 51 of moms said that what they truly desire for Mother's Day is something much simpler, yet infinitely more precious. They want quality time with their loved ones. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone Paying Big Wireless Way Too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
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extra seeful terms@mintmobile.com this podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month. So Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now. Get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to Talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com and save $80 with code SPACE80@Talkspace.com that's Talkspace.com, promo code SPACE80.
Woody Overton
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Woody Overton
Ding, ding, ding. Mom, you got it right. But. But not quite yet done yet. Hold on one second. The so consider giving the gift of your presence and undivided attention to your mom this Mother's Day and create memories that will last a lifetime.
Cindy Overton
It's true. But I don't want undivided attention. I want everybody here getting along, laughing and joking and going off to do this and riding by on the side by side. And just like you did when I think it was Father's Day and y' all were fishing and going pond to pond, I was like sitting here just crying like a good tears like this.
Woody Overton
You can't cry on Mother's Day. Quit crying. She's crying now, y'. All and for no reason. I can't fix it and I don't, I don't like to see any of my girls cry.
Cindy Overton
That's a good thing, baby. You created all right family with me. But so it's a good thing.
Woody Overton
What I you know how I feel about Valentine's. I think that's a man made holiday for chocolates and cards and all that. Well, Mother's Day is if you don't stop crying, I'm ending the show. Mother's day is the third largest card sending holiday with about 113 million cards exchanged each year. Mother's Day serves as a testament to the endearing power of a handwritten note. So skip the chats and texts and write your mom a heart belt day Mother's Day card message she can hold close to her heart. I remember being a little kid and have to do doing it on crayon. Making my own card for my mama.
Cindy Overton
Yeah, like left me a card when he last weekend because he knew he wasn't going to be here.
Woody Overton
I bet it made you cry too. There you go. You still about to cry. I'm about to end this. All right. So in 1934 they actually designed the stamp for Mother's day. It was a 3 cents. That's how much they were back then. Who knows how much they are now. Well, I remember was $0.10. But a $0.03 violent stamp was released on May 2nd in 1934 to honor the moms in America. The stamp's design was Based on James McNeil Whistler's artwork of the portrait of my mother, also known as the arrangement in gray and black. All right, told you about cards. What do you think is the number one gift on to moms on Mother's Day?
Cindy Overton
Flowers.
Woody Overton
Absolutely correct. Wait, Look at the big brain on our mom here today. In between teardrops. In between teardrops, she keeps rolling out the right ANSWERS. And in 2024 survey Australians say that flowers are the number one gift of choice for the Mother's Day, with food and alcohol coming in second and a vacation or dinner ranking third.
Cindy Overton
Vacation. I need to step up my expectation.
Woody Overton
Yes, you have to get a vacant vacation every day. Right. What do you think? That is the flower that traditionally symbolizes Mother's Day. I bet you don't get this right. Nope. See?
Cindy Overton
Carnation.
Woody Overton
Yes, it is carnation.
Cindy Overton
Cheapest.
Woody Overton
So, speaking of flowers, carnations are traditionally associated with Mother's Day due to their long standing symbolism of love, gratitude and purity. White carnations are also often used to honor moms who have passed away, serving as appointments reminder of their everlasting presence in her heart. In Christianity, pink carnations represent a mom's undying love and is believed that when the Virgin Mary saw Jesus carrying his cross before he was to be crucified, she wept and pink carnations bloomed from where her tears fell to the ground. Since then, pink carnations have been a symbol of mom's unconditional love and devotion. So when you give a pink coronation to your mom on Mother's Day, you're honoring your timeless bond and expressing gratitude for her love and sacrifice, right? Well, from her birth moms to her stepmoms and grandmothers and aunts and adopted moms and other mom figures who play important roles in our lives, Mother's Day is a day to honor their tireless devotion and celebrate the diverse forms of motherhood that shapes our our lives. So shout out to all the moms. We love y'. All. We thank you for everything that you do, hope that you have a wonderful, wonderful weekend and you deserve to be celebrated on this day. And I hope y' all learned a little something too. So to end the show because it's true crime, I gotta tell you about one of the. Well, there's a lot of shitty moms out there, but this lady is famous for being a shitty mom. You should the. I'll give you a hint. She was famous gangster.
Cindy Overton
Oh, then no, I'm not gonna get that.
Woody Overton
Mall Barker.
Cindy Overton
Oh, yeah, right.
Woody Overton
So let me tell you about Mall Barker. Her real name was Kate Barker. But she was born as Era to Arizona Donnie Clark on October 8th of 1873. She lived until January 16th, 1935. But she's better known as Mall Barker and sometimes known as Arizona Barker or Airy Barker. And she was the mother of a few members of the Barker Carpus gang during the Public Enemy era when the. That's when the gangs were running wild, right? John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, they. They didn't have the national police force the FBI set up yet and all that stuff. So. And that's. They were robbing banks and robbing people and killing people. And how many times can you break out of prison? They, they would break into prisons to break their people out. It was totally different time. No telephones to call ahead or, or radios and stuff like that. So anyway, the, that Public Enemy area is when the exploits of criminal gangs in the midwestern United States gripped American people in the press. They didn't have anything else to do. List to the radio and read the. Read the papers. Right. So the. I will get. I guess you'll get this right again. She was born on October 8, 1873 in Ash Grove, Missouri. She died January 16, 1935 at the age of 61 in Aal Wali, Florida. And how did she die?
Cindy Overton
Somebody killed her.
Woody Overton
How did she die?
Cindy Overton
She got shot.
Woody Overton
Y' all could tell I'm barely being nice because it's mother's day, but listen to this. She had one husband, George Barker, who she was with from 1892 to 1924. Then she had another dude was her common law husband Arthur Dunlop. Her children were Herman Barker, Lloyd Barker, Arthur Barker and Fred Barker. And all of them were shitheads that made up the Barker Carpus gang. Now, Ma Barker gained a reputation as a ruthless crime matriarch who controlled and organized her son's crimes. J. Edgar Hoover described her as the most vicious, dangerous and resourceful criminal brain of the last decade. And she's been presented as a monstrous mom in films, songs and literature. And then those who knew her insisted that she had no criminal role and that Hoover created the allegations to justify her shooting by the FBI. Well, in 19 that was happened in 1935. Later reports consistently conclude that Mall Barker's roles in her son's crimes was largely falsely created by the FBI and newspapers to increased sales. And we call that fake news nowadays. Right. But who knows? The.
Cindy Overton
I mean they sensationalized everything back then too. I mean, it's not like what in the news today is different.
Woody Overton
Well, the difference is now everybody has A camera. And a lot of it can be disproven, right.
Cindy Overton
And we have AI that creates stuff as well. Makes it looks real. Makes it look real.
Woody Overton
Well, I told you about the. The rest hurl. You know where she was born and all the kids she spit out. And the George Barker, her husband generally worked low paying jobs and like from 1916 to 1919, he was at the Crystal Springs Water Company. In the 1920s he was employed as a farmer, a watchman, a station engineer and a clerk. An FBI documents describe him as shiftless. And says the Barkers paid no attention to their son's education and they were all or more or less illiterate. Now, her sons committed crimes as early as 1910 when Herman was arrested for highway robbery after running over a child in his getaway car. Over the next few years, Herman and his brothers were repeatedly involved in crimes of increasing seriousness, including robbery and murder. They were inducted into major crime by the Central Park Gang. Herman Daddy died on August 29, 1927 in Wichita, Kansas after a robbery and confrontation with the police that left one police officer dead. So it was a shootout. He shot the officer at point blank range in the mouth. He killed himself to avoid prosecution by crashing his car. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. I'm pretty sure the cops killed him. But in 1928, Lloyd Barker was in incarcerated and Leavenworth. And Arthur Doc Barker was in the Oklahoma State Penitentiary. And Fred was in the Kansas State Penitentiary. The whole family's locked up, but they didn't get to make it in for Mother's Day. George was listed as living with his wife in 1928 in the Tulsa city directory. And either she threw him out, as some say, or he left when life became intolerable with his criminal family. Now, according to a writer named Miriam Allen Deford, George gave up completely and quietly removed himself from the scene. After Herman's death and the imprisonment of all the rest of his sons. The FAI claimed that George left Maul because she had become loose in her moral life. Was having outside dates with other men. And they noted that George was not a criminal. But he was willing to profit from his son's crimes after her death by claiming their assets as his next kin. Like he went in. I mean, give me that pocket watch. I'm his daddy. However, a family friend recalled that the couple argue about their children's dissolute life in the wrongdoings and all that because George wouldn't accept him. The crunch came when George refused to support Lloyd after his Arrest insisting that he should be punished for his crime. Well, Arie did everything that she could to get her mall barker did everything she could to get her sons exonerated, no matter what they had done. Right, Brenda? U haul? Yeah, right. And so from 1928 to 1930, Mall Barker lived a miserable poverty in miserable poverty in a dirt floor shack with no husband and no job while all her sons were locked up in prison. Now this may have been when she became loose with local men as the FBI suggested. And by 1930 she was living with a jobless man named Arthur W. Dunlop. And she is described as his wife on the 1930 census in Tulsa, Oklahoma. But things improved for her in 1931 after her son Fred was released from prison. He joined former former prison mate Alvin Karpis to form the Barker Carpus gang. And after a series of robberies, Fred and Carpus killed Sheriff C. Roy Kelly in West plains, Missouri on December 19, 1931. And of course this made them he ran like a little. So Ma and Dunlap ran like a little with them also. And they used various false names during their crime career. Now check this out. I always like these posters. A wanted poster poster issued at the time offered 100 reward for capture of old lady Arie Barker, right as an accomplice. And after this she was known to gang members as Kate. I'll tell you about her death real quick because it's fitting in this crime story on how Ma Barker died. FBI agents discovered the hideout of Barker and her son Fred and Arthur and was arrested on Chicago on January 8th. In 1935. FBI agents discovered the hideout of Barker and her son Fred after Arthur was arrested in Chicago on January 8, 1935. And when they arrested him, guess what? Arthur had a map on his person which indicated where the other gang members were in that Akala, Florida. The FBI identified the house where the gang were staying from the reference to a local alligator known as Gator Joe, right mentioned in a letter that was sent to Doc. The gang had rented the property as a vacation retreat. On their pseudonym of Blackburn. Agents sneak in surround the house which was located at 13250 East Highway C25. And this was on the morning of January 16, 1935. But the FBI were not aware that the Carpus and the other gang members had left three days before, which left only Fred and Ma Barker in the house. The agents ordered them to surrender, but Fred opened fire. He's like you been. Both he and his mama were killed by federal agents after an intense hours long shootout. You know what happened? At some point ran out of ammunition and. And they got killed. Right? So many people. Local people came to watch events unfolding. Even holding picnics during the gunfire. That's how long it went on for. Gunfire from the house finally stopped. And the FBI ordered local estate handyman Willie Woodbury. To enter the house wearing a bulletproof vest. I'm pretty sure if I was Mr. Wood Bear, I'd be like, go yourself, G man. You go do a my job. Maybe they gave him a dollar or something. But Woodberry reported that. That he went in and did it for. I don't know why. He went in and came out and he said, no one is alive. Both bodies were found in the same front bedroom. Fred's body was riddled with bullets. But Ma appeared to have died from a single bullet. W. According to the FBI's account, a Tommy gun was found lying in Mal Barker's hands. Other sources say that it was lying between the bodies of Ma and Fred. And their bodies were put on public display. And. That's right. And. And then they were stored and unclaimed until October 1, 1935, when relatives came and got him. And they buried him at Williams Timber Hill Cemetery in Welch, Oklahoma, Next to their daddy, Herman Barker. There you go.
Cindy Overton
Thank you.
Woody Overton
Hey, thank you. I don't even. So that's it. Happy Mother's Day. I hope you learned a lot better than my Barker. My Barker, she had it going on, right? You're gonna be an outlaw. Be a real one.
Cindy Overton
Yeah.
Woody Overton
So be with loose men or a loose lady. Nowadays we just call you a hoe. But happy Mother's Day to each and every one of y'. All. Happy Mother's Day. Cindy, I love you very much. May you best mama ever. And then I was talking to my mom the other day on the phone. I said, I just. You knew this is going to be the first year we're not together on Mother's Day. I said, but you are the absolute best mother in the world. And she said, well, thank you so much. I said, well, don't take it too high standard. Mom. You're the only. You know, I don't have a lot to compare you against. And she made her last. So there you have that. And that's it. I'll holler at y' all later. You got anything.
Cindy Overton
Thank you for saying that.
Woody Overton
All right. Love you, too, then. I'm Woody Overton.
Cindy Overton
I'm Cindy.
Woody Overton
Me host a true crime. Time for this Saturday for Mother's Day, May 9, 2026. I'm a Holler at you later. Love y'. All. Peace.
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Woody Overton
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Woody Overton
Definitely a Verbocare thing.
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Woody Overton
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Cindy Overton
Sorry.
Woody Overton
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Woody Overton
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Hosts: Woody Overton and Cindy Overton
Episode Date: May 9, 2026
This episode of Real Life Real Crime: True Crime Time For centers on the complexity and significance of Mother's Day through the lens of true crime. Woody and Cindy Overton discuss infamous criminal cases connected to mothers—both as victims and perpetrators—including updates on ongoing local cold cases, the dark history of Mother's Day crimes, the notorious Ma Barker, and social dynamics around the holiday. The hosts infuse personal reflections and advocacy, blending somber true crime analysis with heartfelt appreciation of motherhood.
“Doesn't mean they should be murdered. It just doesn't. If your mama had an addiction and was living a high-risk lifestyle, would you take it any less serious?” (Woody Overton, [09:28])
“When these cases get called in... 90% of the time, the person just moved on down the road... so you don't really take it that serious at first... So hats off to [law enforcement] for stepping up.” ([14:25])
“She’s just a lying bitch... She drowned, strapped her babies in the car seat, and drowned them... because she was getting some dick from the rich boy in town.” ([25:25])
“Moms are multitaskers by nature and true crime engages their minds… it keeps her sharp even when she's knee deep in meal prep.” ([27:51])
“Agents ordered them to surrender, but Fred opened fire... Both he and his mama were killed by federal agents after an intense, hours-long shootout. Local people came to watch, even holding picnics during the gunfire.” (Woody Overton, [49:52])
"It's just very important… These are real people who have real family members. Madison has kids that know their mama's never coming home." (Woody Overton, [12:12])
"What I want for Mother's Day is my kids together in my presence, and that's it." (Cindy Overton, [37:23])
"Like with my dad, I never got it until he had [cancer]… you just don't know." (Cindy Overton, [14:11])
“A mom's voice has scientifically proven benefits for her child… it reduces cortisol and increases oxytocin.” (Woody Overton, [32:17])
“Happy Mother's Day to each and every one of y'all. May you be the best mama ever. If you're gonna be an outlaw, be a real one.” (Woody Overton, [58:21])
Woody and Cindy maintain their characteristic blend of candidness, dry humor, southern warmth, and unsparing true crime analysis. Woody’s storytelling is direct and sometimes graphic, while Cindy frequently offers personal and emotional insight, grounding the show in the perspectives of families affected by crime. Their banter breaks up the heavier moments, and the mood, while somber at times, is underpinned by advocacy.
This Mother’s Day special navigates the intersection of true crime and family, honoring mothers while shining a light on unsolved cases—and notorious mothers who made headlines for all the wrong reasons. The Overtons pull together hard crime facts, personal appeals for justice, historical trivia, and reflections on motherhood’s complexity, creating a compelling episode that educates, advocates, and entertains.