← The Kirsh Connection
The Kirsh Connection
Inside the Business of Naming Rights and Sports Partnerships w/Jeff Marks
00:46:53
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- [00:01]
A
Hi, I'm Andrew Kirsch, co founder of Sklar Kirsch. On this podcast, I interview industry leaders. You'll hear their real time opinions on today's market, their background, unique career highlights and guidance for newcomers to the industry. This is the Kirsch Connection. Welcome to the debut of the Kirsch Connection. Yes, we've rebranded, we've retitled the podcast and I'm excited for you to hear and see and be part of the new branding of the Kirsch Connection. My first debut episode of the Kirsch Connection. I have Jeff Marks, the co founder of Innovative Partnerships Group. I know Jeff through ypo and Jeff has an amazing company that helps monetize naming rights on jerseys of sports teams like FC Barcelona, naming rights of stadiums like the Atlanta Falcons Stadium, Mercedes Benz Stadium, and many other ways that companies are looking to monetize both their sports brands and real estate assets. And it's a full conversation with Jeff Marks that ranges from sports to real estate and both our college baseball playing days. I hope you enjoy My debut podcast of the Kirsch Connection with Jeff Marks. Welcome not to another edition of Real Talk, but to the inaugural edition of the the Kirsch Connection. Why are we switching names? I don't know. My podcast production team thought so, but what's important is I'm here with my good friend Jeff Marx, CEO of Innovative Partnerships Group. Jeff, welcome to the Kirsch Connection.
- [02:02]
B
Well, first of all, Andrew, thanks so much for hosting me to your inaugural event. I'm honored. I know that I beat out a bunch of people, so thank you for this. I'll try not to screw things up.
- [02:12]
A
It's impossible. But I. Ever since I met you, I don't even really know where or when we met. I know over the last several years our paths have crossed and maybe now in the future, with respect to ypo, our paths are going to cross more often.
- [02:28]
B
Are you officially in or not?
- [02:29]
A
No, I'm not. This is the reason why we're having this podcast is so I could get into.
- [02:33]
B
You already had my vote, so you're good.
- [02:37]
A
But you know, most people who watch or listen to this podcast are have something to do with the real estate industry and I know you do, but you're also so much more expansive of sports and entertainment and real estate. We'll do a deep dive into your company, but why don't you just give sort of an overview of Innovative Partnerships Group to the extent that my listeners don't. Haven't heard of it.
- [02:59]
B
All right. No, that's Great. Andrew, once again, thanks for hosting me. So innovative partnership. We're going on year nine. We are a business development firm. And think about this a little bit like a hybrid between a consulting firm like Strategy, Booz Allen McKinsey and then sales, business development. And we kind of formed this company starting in sports. And what we do is we work with the most prestigious sports entertainment properties around the world and brands. And what we do is we do their business partnerships and we do their long term deals. Those normally are naming rights or you see a name on a jersey, we call them founding partners. And so that's what people know us for is doing naming rights. But we're really a business development firm and a strategy firm, really making sure that brands and properties, when they get together, it's a long term deal and they don't separate after a year or two. And that can only happen when it goes beyond just a marketing deal. So we've kind of figured out a way to kind of make sure that when you structure the deal right from the beginning, then you hopefully stay on for a very long time.
- [04:03]
A
You mentioned jerseys. That's top of mind. Only because I got back from an unbelievable trip to the Middle east and India. But when I was in Qatar and Dubai, when I was at a sports store where I almost like any store in Qatar, everything was a soccer jersey, Qatar Air Airways. And when I was in Dubai, every jersey was Emirates from a, you know, their soccer teams.
- [04:27]
B
Well, you didn't look closely because you should have looked at Spotify. Cause I think FC Barcelona and Real Madrid are the top two in, in that part of the world. And our firm helped originate that partnership. We're going on year six with FC Barcelona.
- [04:44]
A
You're right, I should have looked even further. But. All right, so I want to talk more about your company, but let's talk about the man, the myth, the legend. Jeff Marx. Where did you grow up? Tell me about your background.
- [04:55]
B
I appreciate you saying that. So I'm a Valley boy, Andrew. So I grew up in the West Valley.
- [05:01]
A
I've heard of it. We weren't allowed to go over Mulholland or past Mulholland or have you, have
- [05:07]
B
you ever been back or not? Have you done it?
- [05:09]
A
My passport won't allow me to go into the 818. But as a three one zero boy.
- [05:14]
B
Well, first of all, as a Valley boy, you know, I ended up my wife, dean of 26 years, she went to Beverly High. So that was a couple that the, the Valley guy got. The, the west side, the Norman.
- [05:28]
A
Yeah, Beverly High Norman and all of her.
- [05:31]
B
I remember at the time, all her friends, I think, were teasing her. How could you? How could you? So I don't know if we've gotten the last laugh yet, but it's 26 years strong.
- [05:40]
A
That's amazing.
- [05:41]
B
So it's good. But no, I mean, grew up in the west part of the valley. I played baseball and we're on some pretty good teams. My high school was El Camino, so we went to the city championship. Lost on a squeeze play at Dodger Stadium.
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A
I remember those El Camino teams, by the way.
- [05:59]
B
That was crushing.
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A
Was it early night? Late?
- [06:00]
B
Yeah, 1990s. And then that same team we went on actually was the year before. And we. It was. Remember when it was American Legion? So we ended up winning like six tournaments. Didn't even know you can go that far. When we won the 1989American Legion World Series championship against Puerto Rico on ESPN.
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A
Oh my. And then can we have footage of that?
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B
And everyone said after that my whole life kind of went down. Now I should have just stopped there. So no. But then I hadn't gotten baseball out of my blood yet. And the only school that picked me up was UC Riverside. So I went there as recruited. Walk on.
- [06:37]
A
Do you know that I also played baseball in college?
- [06:40]
B
I think maybe I did know this.
- [06:42]
A
Wow, two college baseball players who short jews.
- [06:45]
B
Come on. But I was left handed, so same with me. So I only had center field.
- [06:48]
A
Yeah, center field.
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B
Okay, so you'll know this.
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A
So was Brett Butler your idol?
- [06:52]
B
I did like Brett Butler.
- [06:53]
A
I loved Brett Butler.
- [06:54]
B
Yeah.
- [06:54]
A
That's who I told. Now people are like, who the hell's Brett Butler? I also say Lenny Dykstra. Pre steroids. There you go. And pre criminal conviction.
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B
Yeah. He was a hustler. You know, like on the field.
- [07:09]
A
His nickname was Nails.
- [07:10]
B
It was great. Yeah. So. Okay, well you'll. I had no now. So now you're going to appreciate this. So go there. We. They had pretty good teams. We ended up my freshman year. Went to the World Series, D2. Now it's a D1 program. So I show up, I'm a recruited. Walk on. And I show up at the. Whatever the tryouts are. There's over 100 people for two spots. And they tell me that the number one recruit was like fifth round, decided not to go pro from. From Riverside. So the. The local stud decides to stay back. And he's. He's lefty center field. And it's got like £50 on me. So I said, Andrew, screw this. I'M going to hedge my bet. So I went out and rushed to fraternity. But the coach at Riverside, guy named Jack Smitheren, he went to Arizona State and he was an sae, so he forbid any of the baseball.
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A
I feel like this is the same story as me.
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B
So I'm like, I'm not making the team, but I'm gonna. But you're not gonna outwork me. That was my big thing. I might not have the best ability, but you're not gonna outwork me. So I rush and all the fraternities are like, oh my God, we're gonna get a baseball player because they hadn't had one. As you know, the story goes that I make the team and I gotta decide. And I go, you know what? Screw it. I'm going to be the Jackie Robinson of, of UC Riverside and I'm going to do both. And I ended up being the first one at practice, last one to leave. And I told the fraternity, which turned out to be sae, the same one as the coach. I said, you're going to have to give me an exemption from, from being a pledge or whatever they called it.
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A
Right?
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B
And they were. And so I ended up having a very easy fraternity or whatever.
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A
Jeff, hearing that story, I'm telling you, it is the exact same situation.
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B
That's amazing.
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A
At Northwestern. For me, just a couple years, I think I'm a couple years younger than you are. I'm 50.
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B
You're young.
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A
I'm young. Okay, so.
- [09:10]
B
But you're about to go into a goalcheck.
- [09:13]
A
Yeah, I am. So there was a highly recruited center fielder, not me, who had a choice between. He was, he was drafted by the Dodgers, had a huge offer for a signing bonus, or Northwestern. I assumed he would take that money and that would open up a spot for me. He decided to go to Northwestern. He ended up being my roommate and he tore his ACL and never really panned out to being that, you know, high, high end recruit. And so I ended up having a four year, you know, mediocre college career, part time starter. I went on to chat gbt. I put in my stats and I said, how much nil money would I get with these stats as a center fielder at Northwestern? They said somewhere between 1,000 and $8,000.
- [10:09]
B
And you know, Andrew, just telling you what you wanted to hear, it's probably lower. It's probably lower.
- [10:13]
A
Just kidding. And we weren't allowed to rush a fraternity because our star pitcher broke his ankle in a snow football fraternity game. And so.
- [10:23]
B
Well, the reason why I Said that I was trying to think why I said Jackie Robinson, the reason for that. The next year, yeah, everyone went out on the baseball team for a fraternity. So I was like the trailblazer.
- [10:32]
A
There you go.
- [10:33]
B
Like, great experience. Yeah. Maybe the, the worst and best thing that happened was my sophomore year. I'm in the weight room, 5:30 in the morning, no one around, and unfortunately the weight shifted and my shoulder got kind of ripped out. And then I had reconstructed shoulder ended baseball. But I transferred to Berkeley, so maybe that was meant to be. So baseball cut short, went up there, international economics, rhetoric and went to management consulting. From there, business school at usc Marshall. And there I met a professor, business of sport. And there I first day I got in trouble in class. That's a whole over maybe a beer, we'll tell you that story. And I had to see him after class, but we ended up going out and the next day I was his managing director. Amazing.
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A
And what year is this?
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B
This has got to be 2001, maybe 2002.
- [11:33]
A
So when I graduated, I also went to Northwestern for law school and I graduated law school in 2000 and ended up at Latham and Watkins. And, and I am a huge sports fan and I tell people now just pursue your passion. And for me, even though I have a successful real estate legal career, I wish I would have done something like you, something in sports. I didn't even appreciate the ability that one could make a career in the management of sports, whether it's working for a team or having the type of sports business consulting practice. Did you know that that was even a possibility?
- [12:17]
B
Well, no. I mean, when I, when I did management consulting coming out of undergraduate and then went to business school, you know, you know, people go to business school because maybe they don't really know what they want to do next. But I was kind of trying to find out where could I find an industry that kind of went back to my high school baseball team members. How could I find something that brought me passion and joy? And you know, I was talking to a lot of people and they said, look it, the money will eventually, hopefully come if you do something you love.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so, yeah, I mean, when you start out. I didn't want to start out selling tickets. So, you know, by this point, I guess I'm late 20s, maybe 30 years old. But I. So I ended up doing this management consulting gig with my professor. But the Latham thing is very interesting. It was almost like perfect timing how you pulled that off. So one day over breakfast, I meet with a gentleman named Alan Rothenberg. So Alan was the founder of Major League Soccer, chairman of the 94 and 99 World Cup. Which is pretty ironic that, you know, we're going into the World cup season in a few months. But a little fun fact that you didn't know he was the first Jewish Latham Watkins.
- [13:25]
A
Come on.
- [13:26]
B
Yes.
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A
Wow.
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B
At a Michigan graduate school. Because he was blonde hair, blue eyes and they were like.
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A
And they didn't know.
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B
They knew, but they wanted. They wanted. Yeah.
- [13:37]
A
Wow.
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B
By the way, I don't mean to date Alan. He was. So I ended up becoming his. Well, we. I worked for him and we started a venture capital firm and. And then from there he had a small sponsorship agency with another partner and worked my way up and ended up becoming his.
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A
His business partner and he started First Century bank. And that's our bank.
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B
Well, actually First Century bank is. So if you've been to the to. I was. Yes. And my office was next door to Alan. He had two offices. I ended up. Yeah. What a small. These world.
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A
I honestly, I. It's crazy of how coincidental all this is.
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B
Is Jason still the CEO over there or not?
- [14:18]
A
I think so.
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B
Okay, good.
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A
You mentioned ticket sales and the reason why I'm mentioning it a couple weeks ago. So this could be a 10 minute story or it could be a 30 second story. Let me make it a 30 second story. A very close friend of mine from law school and Latham and Watkins decided, enough with law. I'm gonna pursue a career in sports, but as a coach. And he went from high school to college to then getting a ring with the Boston Celt and now has been in the NBA for close to 20 years. And he's one of the top assistants for the New York Knicks. He also worked for the Golden State warriors. And when the Knicks played the Warriors a week or two ago, he was very generous and so were the Warriors. And they invited me on the floor and for pregame and we saw Steph's whole pregame routine. And I met the president of the warriors, who when my friend was an assistant coach with the warriors, this guy who's now president of. Of business operations of the Warriors. He was in charge. Not even in charge. He was a ticket salesman. I'm forgetting his name right now. Maybe you know who he is. Great guy. And he worked his way up from selling tickets to being president of the Golden State Warriors. So maybe that's another path.
- [15:37]
B
I mean, look at if you sell tickets or we always say that if you start in minor league baseball.
- [15:41]
A
Yeah.
- [15:42]
B
Where you're doing Everything. Then that's how you kind of learn the business. But you do. You got to start at the beginning, and you have to appreciate all the different, you know, verticals within a sports team or franchise.
- [15:53]
A
So you linked up with the professor at Berkeley and you started. What company was it?
- [15:59]
B
Yeah, well, so it was at Marshall, at usc. Ok, David Carter.
- [16:03]
A
So, sure, I've.
- [16:05]
B
Yeah, so David. Yeah, so David, his company was Sports Business Group.
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A
He was always interviewed in the L. A Times when there was a sports business
- [16:14]
B
issue. All right, so you just triggered a memory of the whole thing. So how did I get into sports, really? So when I took his class, you had to do a group project in business school. So I went to him and I said, hey, look, I really want to get into sports. He goes, yeah, so is everyone else that takes my class. He goes, good luck with that. And he was kind of joking. I said, well, I got an idea. I said, everyone likes to be on a list, you know. And so I said, you know, L. A Business journal, the wealthiest guys and top law firms. And Andrew's on every year, things like that, right? So I said, well, what if I created for my project of business school a model that identified the top 25 most powerful, influential business executives. Money, power, community. And I put it all into this model, and I push a button that spits out number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I go, what do you think of that as a class project? He looks at me, he goes, I don't know what you just said, but go do that and then come back. So I did that and then I presented the report to him. And he goes, come next, what's the breakfast place downtown? The engine.
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A
You know, the engine company.
- [17:24]
B
Engine company or 28. So we show up at breakfast the next week, and I've got my report. And he brings. At the time, he was kind of a famous. It was Bill Dwyer who was the.
- [17:34]
A
The. He was a writer.
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B
He was. He was the. For. He was the head editor for the. Yeah. And then Bill Shaken, who's now doing the. So they show up Bill's, you know, pretty new. And the professor goes, hey, you know, check out this student's report. So they look at it, they're flipping through it, and they kind of. They get a smile. They're like, we would like to publish this. I go, fantastic. Now, remember Andrew, you know, from money and power and labor and all my, you know, different, you know, it was maybe pretty good of identifying the top 25 or maybe blocks of top five. The next five. The next five I didn't do a rank order because I was like, you
- [18:15]
A
know, how do you rank them?
- [18:16]
B
Long story short, they said, son, I don't know if they said something. Let's just makes it sound better on a podcast. And they go, we'd love to publish you, but you have to give us the rank order. I go, I'm not comfortable doing that. And David Carter, the professor looks at me, goes, he'll do that. So we walk out, give him the rank order. And I was laughing. So I was still doing my management consulting also. So I kind of had this duel just starting in sports, but not really. And I get a call. This is maybe a couple weeks after this thing. And that Monday, the Times came out with the top 25. Maybe it's a top 20 at the time, but top 20 most powerful. Page one, page two, page three, page four. Every single page of the sports section was this report. And I was. And they put me on the back page. I had Jeff Shell, who, I don't know if you know Jeff, he's now running Paramount, but the time he was at Fox Sports and he did something that no one knew, he blocked ESPN from doing regional sports networks. So he was the guy who kind of. So I put him number one. And I, you know, I can't remember all the other.
- [19:27]
A
So these are the top 20 people in sports business in LA. In LA. Okay.
- [19:32]
B
Why did I do that, Andrew? Because I wanted to go meet them. But we'll get to that in a second. So I get a call and I have a couple of my analysts in my room. And I pick it up. It's one of my buddies being a smart ass. And he. And it's Bob Daly, the president owner of the Dodgers.
- [19:49]
A
Sure, yeah. And I go after the o', Malleys.
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B
This right after Fox. Fox owned it, so. And by the way, they hadn't been in the playoffs in a while. They're in a pennant race. Like, this guy's got totally different. So it's one of my buddies. So I go, hold on. It was like his assistant. Like, I'm calling for that. So I tell the guys to leave. I pick up, and I think it's one of my friends. And he goes, what the F are you doing? Blah, blah. I'm like, oh, my God, it's really Bob Daly. He goes, what's this whole thing? I don't understand how you got on 10 or 12 pages. And I was like, Mr. Daly, sir. He goes, first of all, I don't understand what you do. You don't Know anything about this list? I go, well, tell me what I screwed up on. He goes, you have Michael Ovis at 5 and you put me at 6 and Michael Lovitz at the time, in my deep, deep, deep research, he was out the time trying to bring an NFL team to la. Anyways, you know, he said a few other funny things to me and then hung up. And, and life went on. But I was like, oh, wow. And then I ended up, I think of the 20, even though my report was 25, I think they only did the top 20. I met with 19 out of the 20. And that kind of got me that guy.
- [21:07]
A
This is incredible.
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B
20 was. 20 was Casey Wasserman, who now would be number one.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So I'm dating myself.
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A
Who was number one then?
- [21:14]
B
That was. It was Jeff Shell.
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A
Oh, that's right, you said that.
- [21:16]
B
So when I met with these 19, I'd say two things. I'd say, who did I leave off? And then who, you know, should I put on? It was always the same, you screwed up on Ovitz. So Bob Daly was right. Sorry about that. Michael Ovitz. And then the other one was, they're like, it's this guy, Alan Rothenberg who founded Major League Soccer. Well, fast forward. He becomes my business partner. So we're maybe two years in, we're flying up to.
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A
Did he ever give you San Francisco?
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B
No, this is where it's so funny. So we're flying up two years later, forgot about this thing even existed. And then it just like jogged me. And I'm sitting there on the plane, I go, alan, do you remember that BS article like a couple years ago that some punk in business school wrote, you know, the top 25? And, and, and you know, you weren't on it. He goes, oh yeah, I, I know that was you. And he never had ever told me that.
- [22:07]
A
He's such, he's such a classy guy.
- [22:09]
B
It was so good.
- [22:10]
A
Oh gosh. So where do I take it from here? So, so you and Alan had this company. What was it called?
- [22:18]
B
So it's called Premier Partnerships.
- [22:19]
A
I remember that. Okay.
- [22:20]
B
Randy Bernstein was really kind of the. It was Alan, him as the founder, but Randy was the day to day. And I became their third partner. But I wasn't a founder. I was the third partner.
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A
And was it hard? So you're trying to monetize the assets of the sports teams and what was the reception like from the different teams? Were certain leagues more receptive to what you were trying to do for them?
- [22:47]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, you Know the whole industry of naming rights and long term deals. You know, I don't know if Wrigley counts. I actually credit Alan Rothenberg. He did the Great Western Forum. So maybe that was the first one. And then.
- [23:02]
A
Sure.
- [23:02]
B
A couple here and there. So Premier really started off as a sponsor. Page is saying we started to dabble in, in naming rights. And with my management and kind of venture capital background, I actually was brought on as a coo. I wasn't a biz dev guy and I was building out the systems and I built a valuation system to kind of for the industry to think a little bit differently around how you buy a naming rights rather than buy a sponsorship because it's a different person buying it. Sponsorships may be an agency or a marketing person or if it's a local deal, it might be like a director level. But when you're asking for hundreds of millions of dollars, you're. You're at the CEO and that's a very different way of selling. And it really did kind of lend itself to the venture capital management consulting. So I'm not saying, you know, I had a knack at it, but it kind of, I was able to take those skills and kind of transport them over.
- [23:55]
A
And so I mean now it's. You couldn't even fund a deal without naming rights. Right. I mean.
- [24:03]
B
Well, I mean I think they're still out there. I mean look at. We're sitting in a pretty good position. So. I told you. So my company now Innovative Partnerships Group, we're boutique, I've been told now from a couple of different private equity firms in the industry. Right. The largest independent naming rights and sponsoring agency right now. So in a way that feels good because you get to be boutique and small, which I like. And then yet. But we're still, you know, we're, we're battling the big guys every day. We just.
- [24:30]
A
And well, who are your caa?
- [24:33]
B
Caa? Wme.
- [24:35]
A
Yeah.
- [24:37]
B
Legends elevate. And then you have OVG and aeg but they actually have their own properties as well.
- [24:43]
A
Sure.
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B
And then it kind of drops. I mean I think there's hundreds of agencies that have like you know, 1, 5, 10.
- [24:52]
A
So we're similar in that, you know, a law firm, my law firm, you know, swimming in the same pool as the Lathams and Scaddins and Gibson Duns and marketing where we shine and the differentiator between us and the firms that we came from. And so how do you differentiate innovative partnership groups versus those companies?
- [25:13]
B
Yeah, I mean I think where we you know, and you know we're all friendly, right? Like, you know, when we go up to an agency shootout, I'm sure at that point they don't like when, you know, the little guy is beating them. But we differentiate with the name on our door, you know, Innovative Partnerships Group. So we'll come in with kind of a different angle and it's really around business. You know, a lot of naming rights is around unaided brand awareness, brand equity and trying to get your name out there. But if you're spending that much money and I can show the CEO that says, listen, if you have a media mix, tv, radio, digital, social, out of home print and then sponsorship, but I can show you, if I can actually show you how you make money, wouldn't you rather have the naming rights or sponsorship than an out of home billboard or a digital ad? So if you're the official bank, I'm going to go to the owner of that team and say, I'm bringing out a bank to do your naming rights. Guess who you're going to have to start doing your banking with? Or if it's an insurance company, guess who you're going to have to be buying insurance or if it's technology. And so what we end up doing is creating this B2B business model that said, listen, let's do reciprocal business. Let's use the owner and the C level suite to be a sales channel for that brand and say you got to work harder. This isn't just slapping your name on this. If I bring you a business partner, not a sponsor, that's a naming rights, I need you to go out and help them bring business. And just creating that mechanism has kind of differentiated us and from people that really just say it's a marketing deal.
- [26:51]
A
Can you talk about some of the bellwether deals that you have put together?
- [26:56]
B
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think we've done 35 naming rights. Someone added up 30 the other day and it's a couple billion dollars in transactions. You know, when you do some of these naming rights deals, you're like, there's many people that raise their hands that I did it, I did it, I did it. Because it is a collaborative effort. You know, if you're working. When we helped Arthur Blank do Mercedes
- [27:19]
A
Benz Stadium, the owner of the Atlanta
- [27:22]
B
Falcons, owner, Atlanta Falcons and Atlanta United at the time, we were there to kind of help do all of his founding partners naming rights. Well, Mercedes Benz did the naming rights, so we helped behind the scenes. But now he was at a sponsor, now he is the president. In fact, I'll be with him in a week and a half at the Super Bowl. Tim Zulowski. Guy's fantastic. Well, he had Mercedes Benz, but I had number two, which was the company that ended up putting their name on the jersey for the soccer team, American Family Insurance. So a lot of times it might not be that you were the one that did the cold call, but you were the one that help put the deal together. So that one was good. Mercedes Benz and American Family Insurance, both of those decade later are still around. Yeah, my alma mater was very. That was one at Berkeley. No one said that you could put a name on a stadium at Berkeley. And we did that with a company called Kabam, TD Place up in Canada, Globe Life, which is the Rangers. We're going on year six with FC Barcelona. And we were the ones that helped them originate the Spotify deal. Although that's a story within a story about how it ended up coming through another group in Europe. But we've now done our 35th deal with them.
- [28:40]
A
And are these teams contacting you, asking you what your thoughts are, how to add monetization, ad revenue, or are you seeking out opportunities where you feel like these teams have there they can do more?
- [29:01]
B
And I mean, it's mature both. I mean, in business, you know, there's the saying, all things being equal, friends do business with friends. And, you know, the way we think about it is a lot of times when there's a naming rights deal, they'll go to an rfp and, you know, sometimes we'll get invited. But, you know, as a boutique firm, you know, I don't have a thousand employees, so there might be times where we don't get asked to the dance. But when we are usually one of the three, four or five groups, or, you know, sometimes they start with 10 or 15, we have a very good chance. So if we get a chance to get in and kind of show. And we have this proprietary valuation system, it's called partnership Intelligence. And, and really it's kind of the inner workings of how sponsorship and naming rights deals really, really happen. Remember, we have a valuation consulting division, and I also have a business development division. So I come from the notion that you can't value if you're not out there selling. There's other people that go, oh, no, no. If you sell and value, then you're kind of, you know, it's church state, and it's like, no, you actually need to know it. So. But no, now, you know, now we actually will get Calls sometimes and people will say we want to select you. Which is, which is great.
- [30:18]
A
So you know, well, this podcast, me, myself, we're in the real estate industry and most of our listeners are in real estate. So many of these brand new stadiums are part of a larger real estate play. I mentioned that I was up at the Golden State warriors game and what an unbelievable just activation in terms of real estate from retail to office to residential. And then of course their gorgeous stadium. I don't know if it started with LA Live and Staples center, what 25 plus years ago, but it seems so many of these, you know, maybe it's adaptive reuse or to revitalize a downtown is with a stadium and then all the ancillary real estate. How much do you get involved in in the development of these stadium mixed use projects?
- [31:12]
B
Well, I thought that's why you brought me on today to talk about this.
- [31:14]
A
It was purely to talk about your college baseball.
- [31:16]
B
I was about to say you didn't want to hear about that or LA Times articles or whatever. So yeah, this is actually probably our sweet spot right now. So we ended up starting a new vertical. It's called owners rep for mixed use development projects for sports entertainment. But it doesn't just have to be sports entertainment. It could be a prestige real estate project. It could be a health care district, universities, municipalities. And basically it does, it's our work actually. Is the underpinnings more of a real estate transaction than a sponsorship transaction. So getting back to that story with Arthur Blank. Well, we did just shy of $1 billion of revenue for him. We use the term COI, contractually obligated income. This, this three letter word, this acronym is like our word of the industry. And the reason for that is we've kind of created a new way to finance projects. So what happened back in the early 2000s is public financing dried up. Yeah. And when it dried up, owners and there was that lag period where you didn't see a lot of new stadiums, arenas being built or a lot of them were not becoming renovated. Well, COI changes everything. So what happens with COI is if you hire me to do a naming rights multi year deal or what we call founding partner, like a more than a three year deal. Well, when I do that deal, I can take it to a bank, take the net present value out of that deal and then you can finance my piece of paper. If I get a good lawyer like you with no off ramps. Well, that, that piece of paper is golden.
- [32:57]
A
Yep.
- [32:57]
B
So what we ended up doing is Creating a new vertical. So now when I get brought on to real estate projects and someone says oh, it's debt and equity, I say no, you have COI as your third friend now to help you finance the projects. And that actually is how a lot of these sports entertainment projects happen. We're doing right now. I just counted, we have 10 of these going on right now. So we actually have built a niche as the group that really kind of understands how to get these off the ground.
- [33:25]
A
And so of these 10 are. You said some are sports related and some aren't or so talk about a couple of them. Do a couple. A couple. To the extent you can talk about it, a sports related one and a non sports related one where you can add value to clients of mine.
- [33:41]
B
Sure. I'll pick two. There's not a highlight reel for Goldman Sachs, but both of these are affiliate with Goldman Sachs. So think about investment bank. They go out and loan money. They bring a syndicate group out and that syndicate group then is the debt side. Then the owner of the real estate project has to put equity. They try to put as least amount they can. So FC Barcelona is a great example. So the stadium just got renovated a few months ago, four and a half years in the making. So Goldman lent Barcelona the money. Then we came in, the project was called Espe Barca and we were the group that had to go do the deals that then would fund the stadium, that then Goldman would get back their money. And 35 deals later we did it. But we were finding very non traditional categories. So an elevator sponsor. And you're like I didn't know there there was an elevator sponsor. But the reason we have elevator sponsors at my company is when you do a mixed use development project, you need elevators, you need cement, you need steel, you need aluminum, you need flooring, you need audio, visual, you need all. So we created this thing called B2B partnership marketing. So we come in early on even before the general contractor is brought on. So that gets back to my, my new industry vertical called owner's rep. On the revenue side, most of these big billion dollar projects you have an owner's rep. On the cost side, right. Because you want to make sure you don't go over budget. But what happens if we're trying to bring in a technology partner or a new fiber partner and the general contour says, yeah, I don't know if I trust that H Vac system. I've never seen that new H Vac that's even more sustainable. I've never put that in Before, I'm not going for it. But meanwhile, I brought you an H Vac sponsor who's going to do two, three million dollars a year for 10 years because they want to showcase their new H Vac system at the stadium. I mean, what a better place to do it? So what now I do is I say, listen, before the general contractor says, no way, I need you owner to weigh the options. And maybe you go back to general contractor and say, you know what? That's a lot of money I'm giving up. I need you to think about doing it. If you do it after you hand the keys over to the general contractor and he has all the power. So what we try to do is before the project starts, let's think through all of those different categories.
- [36:07]
A
And so how would that H Vac sponsor, for instance, what would their role be beyond? Is it just sponsorship dollars where they're going to have a visual signage of their name or walk me through what it would look like.
- [36:23]
B
It's like you're giving me the breadcrumbs. I love this. So, Andrew, so if you're an H vac or you're a steel or you're a technology company, most of the time you're B2B. But sometimes there's a hybrid. B2B. B2C.
- [36:36]
A
Yeah.
- [36:37]
B
Like a Sherwin Williams paint company, for instance. Verizon. You think of them as B2C. But no, they're B2B.
- [36:43]
A
Yep.
- [36:44]
B
So what we do is we say, look, you're going to win the business, but you still got to have a low price. You still have to have quality. But we put in the RFP process, partnership, marketing. But then what they get back is not signage and a website and an event, unless you want that. But we give you a showroom. So we give you an opportunity for that H vac company to build out behind glass where their H vac system is actually powering the stadium. I did this with IBM over 10 years ago, and we basically said, this is one that I was pretty happy how we did it. So everyone remembers IBM doing these big mainframes, but they were rolling out a pondass system, which basically meant the DAS and WI Fi would be powered by something about, you know, a box the size of my hand here. So we said, let's do this. Let's go take a closet below the stadium and why don't we paint it all white? Then we'll create a podium, and on the podium we're going to put this IBM pond as IBM. And then we're going to do a B2B walking tour and we're bring someone out and we're going to show them all the different areas that the stadium and the development is getting powered at the very end on Tour stop number 10, we take them downstairs, open up the door, we say, see that little box that's powering everything? And all of a sudden IBM was like, we're generating a lot of business. So we sold them only X amount of these B2B walking tours. They came back to and said, we want unlimited amounts. So all of a sudden we're like, well, that's just not technology. Why can't the elevator company show off their new elevator? I don't know if you know, there's some really cool things going on with elevators right now. You get on, you get on an elevator, it knows you scan your, you know, your retina takes you to the floor security.
- [38:40]
A
Incredible.
- [38:40]
B
But if you're FC Barcelona now and you want to take that up to one of the suites, it's a chance for all these CEOs that are going to their boxes to see, wow, that's a pretty cool elevator. I kind of would like to know how I can get that in my. So it's a way to authentically show off your products, services and solutions in a place where you didn't realize that we're actually marketing to you.
- [39:04]
A
Wow, that's great. So in speaking to my clients and thinking about the services that you provide, what is assuming they're not developing a sports stadium, what is the sweet spot? The type of real estate project that my client should be thinking about using? You a minimum, I don't know, capitalization, a minimum amount of square footage, certain type of uses. When should they call Jeff up?
- [39:34]
B
Yeah, so the first thing we do is we, you know, in that partnership intelligence system I told you about, we'll bring them in and say, tell us about your project. Let's make sure it's a good fit. We don't want to waste your time, we don't want to waste our time. And we'll run them through sort of the different attributes. So let's say your, your project is on the freeway and you didn't know you could do a freeway marquee and you're doing a healthcare district. Let's say it's a couple billion dollar health care district, but it could be a couple hundred million and all of a sudden I go, yeah, but you know what, that sports arena in your same city, they have a marquee. Let's go ask for it. They're like, we didn't even know we could. So next thing you know, you have a freeway marquee where I can go to a third party signage company, sell off half of it. You keep half of it for your naming rights or founding partner to the district. So the signage impressions, freeway or TV visibility, whatever it might be, works out well. The next thing is your spend. How much are you spending on technology and some of these B2B infrastructure? So if there's massive spend, I can get them to put into the RP process. Well, they'll do a spend back. Maybe they don't want a suite, but maybe they want to have an office space or maybe they want to have that showroom or that innovation center or our R and D center. So we will find very unique ways for brands, whether they're B2B or B2C to be in your district. Yeah, but I would say it's not for everyone, but we can always do deals. The question is, do you, you know, if you're spending millions and millions on paint and I can get you 15 points back, you know, that's real money.
- [41:14]
A
No, for sure.
- [41:16]
B
All right.
- [41:16]
A
And our remaining moments, and I appreciate the, the time you're spending with us. You know, you still have some legendary stadiums like a Dodger Stadium, a Yankee Stadium, a Wrigley Field, Lambeau Field. Maybe I'm missing some others where there isn't a corporate name. Is that going to change?
- [41:34]
B
Well, you hit a nerve because my third client, we had the field naming rights to Dodger Stadium done. And obviously I told you I played there my, my senior year. It didn't work out. That group that we brought in ended up finding another stadium. But no, I mean, I don't know necessarily like Yankee Stadium is interesting. You don't necessarily need to name it, but that doesn't mean you can't put a brand next to it and do a preserve buy or something else that takes the brand equity and affiliates and kind of transfers to the brand. But the irony is, I'm actually a purist. The Wrigley's, the Dodger stadiums, the Yankee stadiums. I know I'm in the business of naming rights, but it is kind of nice to go to some stadiums and not have a. A brand.
- [42:22]
A
Does Anaheim Stadium even? I don't even think.
- [42:24]
B
Well, they used to have one. Okay. Yeah, they don't. Most of them do. The Tampa Bay Rays, that's one that we've been working with for a while. They're going to be doing a brand new Mixed use development. So they'll.
- [42:35]
A
They had to fix the big hole in their roof. Right.
- [42:37]
B
Well that's in St. Pete. We believe they're going to. Yeah, there's. There's been some talk. Very good talks. Yeah.
- [42:44]
A
Yeah. How about favorite stadium you've ever been to?
- [42:52]
B
O.
- [42:52]
A
This is my, this is my lightning round.
- [42:54]
B
Yeah, well, I, I think I, you know, I am biased. I think Mercedes Benz stadium. Even though it's Mercedes Benz.
- [43:00]
A
Oh, yeah, sure. I haven't been.
- [43:01]
B
But I mean even though it's a decade out old now, some of the things that Arthur Blank and Tim and the team did were great. They have street pricing. So when we did the Coca Cola deal, that means on the top deck where the families go, anything that's outside. So if you want to buy a hot dog for $1.50 or a Coke for a dollar fifty, Arthur on that deck will make sure it's street pricing. So there's some really cool, unique things. It's also the only lead platinum stadium in the country for sure and there will never be another one because now that to get lead platinum you have to mine your own steel and it's impossible.
- [43:40]
A
Right.
- [43:40]
B
So that's a great one. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think we've got some good ones here in LA as well.
- [43:47]
A
Oh, I mean Sofi's.
- [43:49]
B
Sofi is great.
- [43:49]
A
It really is incredible.
- [43:50]
B
Yeah.
- [43:51]
A
What about the best overall mixed use, I guess experience. I mean when I came out of that Golden State Warriors. Have you been to the Golden State warriors stadium? I mean just the way they've integrated their retail and the office and the light transit, it. It just works. It's unbelievable. What I mean others that maybe that you have seen that.
- [44:16]
B
Well, I think the Battery did it well with the Braves. I think what you're going to see in Tampa is going to be incredible in a new standard. There's another one with fellow white peers are doing one in Phoenix that's going to be incredible.
- [44:28]
A
With what team?
- [44:30]
B
We're not allowed to talk about that now on this podcast, but I'll let you know offline who it is and you might even know them. I think what they did at Barcelona with, with our campus Espe Barca and it's going to be future developments. There'll be a new arena there that in Europe will be one that I think people are going to really look at as a. As a benchmark. And then I've got an entertainment one in Times Square right now. You talk about real estate.
- [44:54]
A
Yeah, we're.
- [44:55]
B
We're we took a vertical building 46 stories high and we turned into Coachella meets Times Square with a music venue. And so this is going to be an incredible property where eight story LED screen push a button and on the third and fourth floors it the LED screen opens up and out walks the artist and they do their concert in Times Square.
- [45:21]
A
Oh wow.
- [45:22]
B
So we've had Post Malone, Shakira, Charli Xiax, Snoop and we're finishing the next phase in three months and once all of those floors are done for events, it's going to be unbelievable.
- [45:35]
A
I can't wait to check that out. Incredible. Well, I know you would probably have preferred to play center field in some of the stadiums that you worked on, but what you ended up doing is not a bad runner up position. And so. And you know, selfishly I'm sort of glad that it didn't work out because if you were a star center fielder, I don't know if I would ever have met you. And so now I get to be, you know.
- [46:03]
B
Isn't that an incredible story?
- [46:05]
A
It really is. So look, Jeff, truly appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to come onto the podcast of the cur. I have to even look at it, the K Connection and just truly appreciate you coming on.
- [46:20]
B
Well, thank you. First episode, I think for this new naming rights. You didn't ask me to do it, but I guess it's pro.
- [46:28]
A
I'm looking at Ashley here. We need to do a naming right. So how about when we get to episode 100, 150, we'll call you. We will do a naming rights for the Curse Connection.
- [46:39]
B
You know, I think I already have someone. There's this guy, Mark Weinstein. I think he wanted a put his name on it. If you know him. I'll introduce you to him.
- [46:45]
A
He's been on the show. Anyway, Jeff, thanks for coming on. And that is the inaugural episode of the Curse Connection. Thank you for watching.