John McWhorter (5:04)

And.

Bill Maher (5:05)

Of course, instead of just owning it, which we used to do in the old days. No. Now they say that the Trump administration. There was nothing classified. This is so laughable. It was actual attack plans. War plans. And that's what they said, war plans. This is illegal. And their excuse now is, well, they weren't war plans. They were attack plans. Bitch, please. I mean, this. I mean, come on, man. And, you know, nobody has been fired over this. And every D lister in Hollywood is like, where was this mercy when I was on the Apprentice? So. And some big MAGA fans are even praising what happened. They're praising the leak. Yeah. They said it proves that the defense. Our defense team, are the same in private as they are in public. Yeah. Idiots. So, okay, well, anyway, to balance this bad news, the Trump administration announced that as of April 2, they're putting a 25% tariff. Imported cars, which will raise the price of an imported car from. I don't know. I've read many estimates this week, 3,000, 5,000. Up to 10,000. Today read 6,000, whatever it is, thousands. For a new imported car. Kind of puts the whole eggs are too expensive thing in perspective, doesn't it? But that's what they're doing. They're fully behind it. Trump says April 2nd will be liberation Day. Yes. If you like being liber from your money. Oh, no, he's. He's pissing off even some of his own people. The former head of the Social Security, which, of course, the Doge people are fucking with. And he says because of all the firings there and because of all the budget cuts, the Social Security system is on the brink of total system collapse. And even Trump people have noticed. I saw a guy yesterday wearing a MAGA hat with a sign that said, we'll own the libs for food. But. Okay, so. All right, so There's a little shock to the economic system. We are going to make up for it, though. I tell you how. I don't know if you know about the Easter Egg Roll that they do every year on the White House lawn. You know, this Easter, they've done this every year. Well, for the first time, announced, they're going to have corporate sponsors. I'm not kidding. Well, the differences will be mineral minimal. No, no, no, no, no. Yes, there'll be some paid ads. Yes, there'll be some corporate branding. And now the Easter Bunny will be the Geico Lizard. Okay, not really, but can you imagine how happy Elon would be if he got to fire the EAs? And what else? Oh, J.D. vance, Vice President Vance, and his wife are visiting Greenland to measure for curtains, and they don't like it. The people in Greenland, they feel they're being pressured. They don't like it. And they have taken to wearing red hats with a message to Trump, and it says, make America go away. Believe me, he's working on it. All right, we got a great show. We have John McWhorter and Ricky Schlatt. But first, first up, we have a podcaster. His new podcast is called this is Gavin. He's also the Democratic governor of California, Gavin Newsom. All right, Governor, how are you?

Gavin Newsom (10:00)

How are you?

Bill Maher (10:01)

You look great.

Gavin Newsom (10:02)

God bless you.

Bill Maher (10:03)

Always do. I appreciate you. Well, first of all, always appreciating. This is a California show. We've been in this building since 1996. Love my California. And I appreciate you making the time. You must be very busy. A podcast. You're governor, you're running for president. Where do you get. But let's talk about what's important. My roof, your roof. My roof.

Gavin Newsom (10:33)

Is this the solar? Is this more back to the solar.

Bill Maher (10:36)

After the fire, it's always about the solar. Yeah, after the fire. Yes, Bill. New roof. They suggested, you know, get the stuff. That's not okay. Two inspections I needed to have. Why? It's my roof. If it falls on my head, that's my problem.

Gavin Newsom (10:55)

That's it.

Bill Maher (10:56)

That's it.

Gavin Newsom (10:56)

That's a statement.

Bill Maher (10:58)

No, that's my question. Why do I need two inspections, which I have to pay for? Yeah. When you were here last time we talked about regulations. You said, oh, it's a completely new day.

Gavin Newsom (11:08)

Well, no, wait, wait, wait.

Bill Maher (11:10)

It's a quote for new completely new day. You said you were working on it, by the way.

Gavin Newsom (11:15)

And last week you had Ezra Klein on, which was incredibly important. You wrote a book called Abundance, which really lays out A very condemning picture of liberal governance in this country and the fact that we are process focused and not outcome focused. And your demonstrable example of that as it relates to what you've tried to do with your damn roof for the last 15 years. And so it's our job to eliminate as many of those thickets.

Bill Maher (11:39)

How's that going though?

Gavin Newsom (11:40)

As possible? Well, I'll tell you this. When we have an on a serious note, when we have an emergency mindset, it goes extraordinarily well. I'll give you two examples. You had Josh Shapiro on recently talking about the i95, had the i10 here, which we were able to get back on track and cars back on that i10 within eight days.

Bill Maher (11:59)

When you have a fire after the fire.

Gavin Newsom (12:01)

But we were able to do it in eight days and that otherwise would not have occurred. It had been months and months and months of process in a traditional environment. The same thing with the recovery as it relates to debris removal. The first phase of debris removal in Los Angeles was done in less than in a month. We're a month and a half ahead right now. 1500 parcels have been cleaned up. I want to get it all done in the next six months again, because we have an emergency mindset. The question is, how do you apply that in between emergencies? How do you do that as it relates to a standard of governance that people should expect and taxpayers should expect? So I couldn't agree more with Ezra. It's an indictment of liberal governance and leadership. And he attacks California rightfully in many categories and respects the high speed rail as it relates to housing production. And we own that, but we also own the response 42 secret reform bills I passed. There's 20 bills we're working on right now. We're trying to address the issue that. That is the issue that dominates and that's localism. And the issue you describe is local inspectors that the state can't control. But we have to.

Bill Maher (13:02)

Yeah, I wrote down the list of the people involved. Like you mentioned, the high speed rail. I'm sure you're tired of talking about the high speed rail, but it was passed in 2008. In 2019, you said, let's be real, the current project as planned would cost too much, respectfully, take too long. Right now there simply isn't a path to get from Sacramento to San Diego. Well, there's a path. It's the highway, let alone from San Francisco to la. I wish there were. However, we do have the capacity to complete a high speed rail link from Merced To Bakersfield. Yeah, I know you're the governor of everyone in the state and those are. Can you name three people who ever wanted to go from to Bakersfield? I mean that. I feel like. I'm just saying.

Gavin Newsom (13:54)

Let me challenge the premise because I think in many respects this goes to, I think, the state of the Democratic Party. And I mean this with respect. The Central Valley in California is one of the fastest growing parts of the state. It's predominantly rural. Yes. It's predominantly Republican. Yes. But it's an incredibly important part of the state. And I think we, at our own peril, we talk down to people in the Central Valley, and I think a lot of people extend that as part of the problem with the Democratic brand. We talk down to people, we talk past people. I think it's an incredibly important part of the state. Not just because I represent the state, by the way, that represented that part of the state probably the largest share of my recall vote. So I'm not saying that in the context of a political frame, but I am saying it in the context of trying to meet people where they are and respect people. All of us want to be protected. We want to be respected, we want to be connected. And I think they have a right to have this kind of investment as much as possible.

Bill Maher (14:44)

I really wasn't attacking those people, but good time.

Gavin Newsom (14:47)

But I think it's.

Bill Maher (14:48)

No, no, no. That's why. I think it's why you'd be a good candidate. You play this game well. No, I mean it in the best way. But here's what my point was, that we can't even build that. And I wrote that. This is from my old book. Regulators, administrators, inspectors, contract reviewers. These are all the people involved. Project managers, fee accessors, special commissioners, zoning officers, consultants, contractors, lawyers, lobbyists, sometimes unions also. Can't you take a chainsaw? Can't we doge the shit out of these people?

Gavin Newsom (15:27)

Yeah, I get it. Look, yes. I mean, the lawyers and the lobbyists, those are the two potent for most potent forces in that respect. By the way, the biggest delay on the high speed rail has been taking 2,270 properties under eminent domain and ultimately getting the environmental work cleared. And that was courts, litigation and lobbyists. By the way, we're doing railhead now. This thing's fully environmentally cleared. We've underground 1,000 utilities. We're finally on the other side of this as it relates to that project, but as it relates to getting housing done and dealing with the supply demand imbalance to deal with the affordability crisis. That explains more things in more ways on more days about California's challenges. 100%, we have to have that same mindset, and we're moving in that direction very aggressively. We own it. We have a responsibility to do something about it. But remember, it's interesting. Those rules were established in the 1970s by Republicans. The California, the CEQA challenges that we have in the state. That was Ronald Reagan Bill, 1970, NEPA. That was Nixon. Clean Air Act, Nixon. Endangered Species act, interestingly, Nixon. But it's been weaponized. This lawfare has been weaponized. And Democrats, we need to call that out. But it's also abused again on the other side of the political aisle as well.

Bill Maher (16:41)

Okay, so John Fetterman was in the news today. He said if you talk about the Democratic Party, he said, if we don't get our shit together, we're gonna be a permanent minority.

Gavin Newsom (16:49)

I agree.

Bill Maher (16:51)

And I see you're doing something about it, and I applaud it. I think it's great you've got this podcast. You're talking to people. You know, it's amazing to me that even that is controversial. To some people, they call it platforming. If you talk to someone you don't agree with. I feel like this country is divided into owners and healers. People who think you can own the other side. Gavin Newsom owned desantis. Desantis destroyed Gavin Newsom, or people who want to talk and heal. And I feel like the next president's going to be at least if it comes from this party, the Democratic Party, someone who wants to talk and heal. And I feel like you're doing that.

Gavin Newsom (17:33)

It's really been interesting, the reaction to the podcast. I mean, we had some controversial figures on, I'll acknowledge that, and Steve Bannon, Charlie Kerr, Kirk and some others. But you're right. I mean, this idea that we can't even have a conversation with the other side.

Bill Maher (17:44)

You have to. They won.

Gavin Newsom (17:45)

Thank you. That's it. Bottom line. And by the way. Or the notion we just have to continue to talk to ourselves or we're in the same damn echo chamber. These guys are crushing us. The Democratic brand is toxic right now. We had a high watermark two weeks ago, and that was a CNN poll at 29% favorability. It's dropped when the NBC poll down to 27%. It's one thing to make noise, but you also have to make sense. And I think with this podcast and having the opportunity to dialogue with people I disagree with, it's an opportunity to try to find common ground. And not take cheap shots. I'm not looking to put a spoke in the wheel of their. Or at least a crowbar in the spokes of their wheel to trip them up to your point, and I think it's important, Democrats, we tend to be a little more judgmental than we should be. This notion of cancel culture, you've been living it. You've been on the receiving end of it for years and years and years. That's real. And Democrats need to own up to that. They've got to mature about this.

Bill Maher (18:37)

So what do you say to people who say, well, this sounds all very good, but, Governor, you were the poster boy for a lot of this stuff. I see today the Trump administration is. They talked about, I don't know if this is true, but they talked about the fact that California had a rule that schools cannot be required to notify parents if their kids in school are. Have changed their gender, their pronouns. That's the kind of thing, even though it doesn't affect a lot of people, that makes a lot of people go, well, you know what? That's the party without common sense. Now, if that's your state, how are you? Are you.

Gavin Newsom (19:17)

I just disagree with that. I mean, the law was you would be fired, a teacher would be fired if a teacher did not report or snitch on a kid talking about their gender identity. I just think that was wrong. I think teachers should teach. I don't think they should be required to turn in kids and by the way, turn in.

Bill Maher (19:34)

We're talking about their parents. How can you snitch? The idea of a snitch and a parent to me, doesn't compare well.

Gavin Newsom (19:40)

I just, I don't. But what is the job of a teacher? It's to teach. If Johnny's talking about some identity issue or some issue about liking someone of the same sex, is it the teacher's job to then report that? By the way, in this law, the teacher can still do that, but they can't be fired. Fired if that's whatcan't be fired if that's not what they do. And that's something I think is. I just think that was fair. I don't think that's inappropriate.

Bill Maher (20:04)

I've seen a lot of people lately talking about this 80, 20 issue. And I think you are on the other side of this now, the side with the 80, 80 being 80% of the people in this country. Again, this is the issue of should biologically born men be able to compete in women's sports?

Gavin Newsom (20:21)

That's tough.

Bill Maher (20:21)

And you Know you. I saw the polling here in California. They think you're a traitor for saying this. Yeah. You know, when those kind of people call you a traitor, there's a word for that. Electable. If the Democrats and 80% of the people are with you on this now, if the Democrats can't get with 80, how are they going to do something when it's a 51? 49?

Gavin Newsom (20:47)

No, look, I get it. And that's. Look, look. And the other side weaponizes these issues. They dehumanize, they attack, they demean, and they've weaponized this issue extraordinarily well. That said, on the fundamental question, is it fair? And I can give you example after example, just in my home state, there was someone that won a triple jump by 8ft.

Bill Maher (21:07)

Right.

Gavin Newsom (21:07)

All right. It's just. But it's, you know, it's serious. And we had two people in the state champion. This broke my heart. Two years ago. I'll never forget it. 18 months ago, we had two extraordinary athletes that got into the state finals. Trans athletes got in the state finals. The backlash was so bad they didn't even compete. And the other two people that were kicked out weren't able to compete. It was fundamentally unfair. We haven't been able to figure that out. So I express that as a fierce champion of LGBTQ rights and have with a record that I don't have to put up with anyone.

Bill Maher (21:34)

You have the cred.

Gavin Newsom (21:35)

And so that's the challenge we have. You want to cancel someone who's been with you on almost, you know, every critical issue at every critical junker or decade, or cancel you cuz you have the audacity to go visit with Trump next week. I mean, you have more credibility to visit him than any goddamn president.

Bill Maher (21:51)

I think so.

Gavin Newsom (21:52)

I know you've been at this for 20 years.

Bill Maher (21:57)

And by the way, I give him a lot of credit for inviting me. Yeah.

Gavin Newsom (22:01)

By the way, learn something from that. Democrats.

Bill Maher (22:03)

Yeah.

Gavin Newsom (22:04)

I'm serious about this. It's not zero sum. We're not. We're not winning right now. He won by 2.3 million votes. We lost the House and the Senate, and we're in a panic. I get it. For good reason. This guy's not screwing around.

John McWhorter (22:15)

Right.

Gavin Newsom (22:15)

But we need to own our mistakes and we need to own what's wrong with our partners.

Bill Maher (22:24)

All right, so given that last question, given that we are in this dire situation, I feel like we don't have time anymore for the old bullshit. You know, the old. Are you running for president? Well, you know there's an exploratory committee and I'm looking at it. I'm happy with my job as governor. I mean, your future is not in California. Your future is in Iowa. Let's dispense with the bullshit. We need someone who's gonna be the champion. Are you gonna do it or not? Just come on, tell us. We don't have time for the bullshit.

Gavin Newsom (22:59)

No, by the way, I deeply respect that. I can't stand the bullshit as well, and I mean that. So. Look, but this is not my purpose or passion. It's not my meaning. It's not everything. Every. The cynicism that's out there, that every move he's making is some move to some longer term strategy or short term strategy.

Bill Maher (23:14)

No, just that you're a guy who could. Who could do it, who could get it done, who could win.

Gavin Newsom (23:17)

Well, I deeply respect that. I like the question, but I don't have any grand plans as with respect to that. I'm trying to do best I can. I'm also trying to be accountable, by the way. You want things to change, you got to change. And that's what the podcast is about. That's my recognition of where we're weak.

Bill Maher (23:31)

Can I do it?

Gavin Newsom (23:31)

You got to call balls and strikes.

Bill Maher (23:33)

Can I be on your podcast? You want to come on the podcast? Can I. Can I invite myself?

John McWhorter (23:37)

After.

Gavin Newsom (23:38)

After the Trump visit, I want you on the podcast.

Bill Maher (23:40)

All right, thank you very much. Governors from the governor of California. I appreciate it very much. All right, let's meet our panel. Hey. Hey, you guys. All right. He is a linguist and opinion writer at the New York Times. His newest book is called Pronoun the Story of us in seven little words. John McWhorter. All right. And she's a New York Times. Eric Post columnist and co author of the Canceling of the American Mind, which is out in paperback April 29th. Ricky Schlatt back with us. Ricky, good to see you. Okay, so, well, group chats are in the news, and it looks like Pete Hegsev picked the wrong week to quit drinking. So we can go past the fact that this is a scandal. It's not the Bay of Pigs, but I just thought it was interesting that I looked up what happened after the Bay of Pigs, which is John F. Kennedy's big fiasco when he first got into office around the same time, just a couple of months in, and he said, I am the responsible officer of this government. He said, victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan. But I feel like it's so quaint that era when people just took responsibility. Because that certainly hasn't been there. Their mode of operandi here after, it's just to say, no, you're the asshole. So what are your thoughts on this? Those are mine.

John McWhorter (25:21)

I just think that, you know, what we see in a case like this with those emojis on the page, it's like the written equivalent of Lucky Charms. And that's supposed to be some kind of. And this is our government. And you know, it reminds. It's like 12 year olds doing Shakespeare. These are people who are completely, completely underwater and yet there is no, no sense of responsibility whatsoever. There's this general mantra and we like to talk about how Roy Cohn told this to Donald Trump. The idea is that you never apologize. As if that's some kind of statesmanship. You know, imagine translating that into Latin. And yet the idea is, I'm not going to try here, but the idea is that you never apologize. And so you just say, no, that didn't happen. No, we were not giving away war secrets and that therefore is the truth. This is a failure of democracy.

Bill Maher (26:26)

Anything to add to that?

Ricky Schlatt (26:28)

Yeah, I think regardless of your politics, I mean, it's hard to look at these same people who were very upset about Hillary's email servers and the security of that, who now have no problem with a signal group chat. And it's really condescending to the American people who can see this entire transcript. It is a screw up. I don't care if it's classified or sensitive or an attack plan or a war plan. It is plain and clear that accountability and just fessing up and saying this won't happen again is the very least that the administration owes their voters.

Bill Maher (27:04)

The journalist who got on the call, I mean, I don't, I guess he had to be in somebody's contact list, right? That's how it happens.

John McWhorter (27:11)

We have no explanation for this whatsoever.

Bill Maher (27:14)

And you know, his initials are JG and at some point it said JG has left the chat. And nobody noticed, nobody reacted, nobody reacted as if. Who was that? I mean, this is, and this is what they're, you know, they're talking specifically about bombing another country. And of course, this guy is an editor at the Atlantic and he's a national security reporter. His whole job is to get a scoop on a thing like this. And he even said, I shouldn't be seeing this. I'm getting off this call now.

John McWhorter (27:46)

Yeah, and yet we have no explanation even now as to why he's there. And they don't seem to have any sense that they might want to give one and instead they keep talking about what a scummy journalist this August figure with 40 years of experience is. Jeff Goldberg is not a scummy journalist. And yet all we've gotten is this kind of sandbox talk from these people. They are a clown car. They are seriously degenerate human beings and it's rather frightening to watch how this is going to play out.

Ricky Schlatt (28:21)

And I also have to say we're pretty lucky that that is the JG that got in into the group chat and not somebody who's indiscreet and just decided to tweet like haha, look at this crazy group chat that I'm in. Two hours before an American airplane took off in a hostile foreign country to execute this. I mean it could have jeopardized real American service lives.

Gavin Newsom (28:39)

Could have people okay, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

Bill Maher (28:42)

I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium.

Gavin Newsom (28:45)

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Ricky Schlatt (29:01)

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Bill Maher (29:08)

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John McWhorter (29:24)

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Bill Maher (29:27)

You'Ll be able to reach people who do.

Gavin Newsom (29:29)

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John McWhorter (29:31)

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Bill Maher (29:35)

That's LinkedIn.com results.

John McWhorter (29:37)

Terms and conditions apply.

Gavin Newsom (29:38)

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Bill Maher (30:11)

All right, so John, you work at Columbia University? I do. Speaking of clown cars and I should.

John McWhorter (30:25)

Say that I have been on a blissful sabbatical for the entire year.

Bill Maher (30:30)

Lucky.

John McWhorter (30:31)

So I only know so much, but go ahead.

Bill Maher (30:34)

All right, well, I mean, starting last week, Trump is going to war now on elite universities. Now, I cannot be a hypocrite. I went through my book that came out last year. It'll be out in paperback very soon. And I can't, I can't be a hypocrite. I wrote down some of the things that I've said over the past that were gathered in the book. Don't go to an elite college. It makes you stupid. Elite universities are the mouth of the river from which manner all radical left illiberal. Yes, illiberal nonsense flows. They're four year daycare centers for the cry bullies of the privilege to complain about privilege. College today is not the college you remember. It's a day and a North Korean re education camp put together. They're asshole factories. If ignorance is a disease, Harvard is the wuhan wet market. Okay, so. So that's where I am. I can't. But as with. So I get the inclination. But as with most things now with this new administration, the way they do it, you can't do it by taking people off the street just because they wrote an op ed pro Palestinian. I'm not pro Palestinian the way they see it either, but, or, you know, these people who are just disappeared because they have a tattoo. I'm so glad I don't have tattoos, Bill.

John McWhorter (32:10)

I should say the kind of student you're talking about, in my experience is a minority of the students. I don't see the whole campus as this. But there is a problem. I mean, frankly, Columbia has tried, for example, this year to eradicate or at least dampen antisemitism. I mean, Minouz Shafiq did get 100 students arrested. You now cannot get onto the campus without a card, which is in order to protect especially Jewish students from having to listen to anti Semitic protests tests all day long. The three administrators who were nakedly anti Semitic in their texts were justifiably fired. But the thing is, I don't think this is really about anti Semitism from the Trump administration. I think they care about as much about anti Semitism as a kitchen cabinet or a spoon. What they are really upset about is just wokeness in general. And universities do have a problem with wokeness. That is a real problem.

Bill Maher (33:06)

Yes, they have a problem with. By the way, Trump's also going after the Smithsonian this week. And the order is called Restoring truth and sanity. To American history. Well, there's some truth to that. The whole idea that they seem to have on campus is that America is the bad guy. Now, America has done some bad things, as has every country, but they don't seem to have any historical perspective. They seem to be historically ignorant, and they seem to not understand or appreciate or defend liberalism, which is the great irony. The things that make this country great are liberal principles, which, I mean, intifada is the global solution. That's not liberalism.

Ricky Schlatt (33:51)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that is now coming back to bite them because they are now being attacked with very illiberal means. And they've completely abdicated the responsibility of teaching the American public, teaching that next generation liberal values that are required to protect academia and to keep it so the sanctity of it. But I completely agree with you. I'm disgusted with the state of academia, but I absolutely do not want to live in a world where the president of the United States is also the president of Columbia University. It's a massive extension of power.

John McWhorter (34:22)

Okay, well, I think one thing I want to give is that this is one of those things where you have to be able to see gray rather than just black and white. And the truth is that many people. All of this may sound kind of abstract sometimes, but many people would be surprised to go to a meeting of, say, anthropologists or historians or just about any subject that they think of as humanities, with the ivy on the buildings and, you know, the college campus in the movies, and see what passes for discussion in those subjects. And many of those places over about the past 15 years in particular, there's this general idea that battling power is supposed to be the North Star, as they put it at npr, the North Star of all inquiry. So you're not learning about the subject. You're taking that subject and battling power. And if you're not doing that, you're either sinister or you're not quite sexy enough to matter. And that's a problem because battling power alone should be one of about 50 things that you study. And if you only study that, it's kind of like kids who want to have candy for dinner. You know, for one thing, that's not good for you. And also they need to broaden their horizons. All of these people who are infusing academia with wokeness want to have candy for dinner. That's a huge problem in academia right now.

Bill Maher (35:40)

Okay, well, just wanted to get that in. I'm glad you did. All right, so I have to. J.D. vance and his wife went to Greenland. I Think they're there right now? I think the trip happened today. The president of Denmark, which owns Greenland, were not happy about it. He said, this is unacceptable pressure. And the people in Greenland have all these signs up that they, you know, obviously are telling us not to go. We are not for sale. You know, this kind of stuff that's going on. 99.7% say no Yankee go home. So they don't want us there. But these are not all the signs they had. Would you like to see somebody? Oh, I knew you would always come through. Here are some of the other signs that they were greeted with. Under this mitten is a middle finger. Golf carts and Rascal scooters don't work on ice fatties. How about getting Florida right before expanding? Hey, if Iceland has Bjork, what do you think the music here sounds like? If you leave us alone, we'll take Meghan Markle. We're Team Drake. I don't even understand. I don't even get what that we already know when you're invading because you included us in a group chat. You know, it's not really green here, right? And of course, shuck off. Okay, so, John, let's talk about your book. I love all your books. I love this one especially because it has everything I love in a book. Timely, witty, and tiny.

John McWhorter (38:07)

The third part was important. It's readable. It's a stocking stock. Wait, it's not Christmas. It's a summer stuffer.

Bill Maher (38:13)

Everything's too long and nobody needs that much time to say anything. And you say it so well and succinctly. And the whole point of it is that, you know, we spent the last, I don't know, five, 10 years. Well, five, certainly obsessing about pronouns. So it's about time somebody wrote this book. And, you know, the state of your pronouns and stating them when you were going for a job or anything became de rigueur. And I know a lot of people, you know, think that that was too far. That's one of the BS things of the woke, as we call it. And I want to get to that word in a minute. But first, let's just talk about this. Pronouns. And you make some amazing points that I didn't realize. You don't think about it how pronouns like any part of language, a living, breathing thing, it changes. You can't change it when they change. It's like crowdsourcing. We used to say thee and thou, and we don't do it anymore. And now we say, like you point out, we say y'all because there's no. There's no really plural you. When we wanted. So we kind of invented that. Yeah, y'all come with us. So what's my question? I don't know. Pronouns. What's up with pronouns, John?

John McWhorter (39:30)

They're a dandy little set of words. They really are a little purple book about them. And they are all changing, and you can't fix it. And anytime they change, people get angry. You get the kind of Uncle Vernon spittle. And then the pronoun has changed. I'm just not gonna do it. And so, for example, it used to be that singular was thou, thou, Ricky, but you, Bill and Ricky. That was the way the language was. And then people started using you in the singular. There were people writing whole pamphlets. Don't you know the difference? Don't you understand grammar? And now here we are, and now there's the they thing. And so the idea is that we're questioning our notion not of biological sex, but of gender identity. There are questions about it. Many people see it differently than they did 50 years ago. So do you need a pronoun for it? And what's it going to be? Frankly, it would be nice if you could make one up. Z is fashionable. Heesh was a big deal for about 10 minutes in the 1970s.

Bill Maher (40:26)

You get it?

John McWhorter (40:27)

He, he and she. I'm going to make one up now. Gabingo. I like that word. Those will never.

Bill Maher (40:36)

Those will never work.

John McWhorter (40:37)

You can't do it because pronouns are not really words. They're like screws, they're nails. They're little traffic cops. We use them too much to change them. So you have to use what you've got. Unfortunately, that's they. And so I think we all have a nice habit to learn to use. And it's fun to learn new things. And so that's gray and dumb.

Bill Maher (40:58)

Yeah, but that one. But using they. I'm all fine for this philosophically, but when we started using they for the singular, it's just. Come on, man. We're already using it for something else. I would be reading an article in the paper, and I'm like, they did I. And I go back three paragraphs. I guess they were talking about two people. Oh, that's right. You got to come up with your own shit, you know, I mean.

John McWhorter (41:26)

Yeah, you know, that is real. You know, I have had that experience of do they mean they they or they they? So I actually not to toot somebody. Some people say, toot your own trumpet. I always thought it was blow your own Horn.

Bill Maher (41:38)

No, Toot your own horn.

John McWhorter (41:39)

Toot your own horn.

Bill Maher (41:40)

Yes.

John McWhorter (41:40)

I'm not going to toot my own horn. Except I am, which is. Yesterday I did a New York Times op ed where I made a suggestion that I think of as rather valuable that they is difficult in print. So why don't we use a capital T with the they when it refers to a single person, Somebody. Isn't that.

Bill Maher (41:58)

Yeah.

John McWhorter (41:59)

See, because then it makes it easier to read. If by any chance this catches on. You heard it here first.

Bill Maher (42:05)

Because I think it's important we capitalize. I. Yeah. And you. I got this from your book. And we don't do that with any other. We don't capitalize. Me, you, they.

John McWhorter (42:15)

And we're used to it.

Bill Maher (42:16)

Yes. Because it helps.

John McWhorter (42:17)

Yeah. And it helped back when it was all handwriting and the I looked like an M or an N. Well, now we have a related kind of problem. And so if the they is going to settle in, and I'm pretty sure it is, I think that we should just have this new, as we call it, orthographical convention because that will make reading much easier. Let's make reading easier.

Bill Maher (42:36)

So you mentioned the word woke. I want to bring this into this because I've had this discussion with a lot of people who don't like the fact that the word. The meaning of the word woke has changed. And I just say to the them, it's crowdsourcing. You cannot control it. I get it. It triggers you because you think of the original meaning of woke, which is alert to injustice, which we're all for. But then, I'm sorry, it became something else. The crowd decided that it was the word we're using for too far. Leftist crazy bullshit. It means eye roll. It means something stupid in my view. And I just would love to know what you think about this.

John McWhorter (43:15)

It was inevitable that that was going to happen because a certain small but influential crowd of people were really obnoxious in 2020 and 2021. And so woke came to have that meaning. It used to have this warm meaning that you understood the leftist orthodoxy in a neutral way. But then it became a leftist who is prosecutorial and likes to throw people out of windows. Now we have right woke, where woke just means likes to prosecute and throw people out of windows. Windows go about 15 years from now. And I'll bet woke is just going to mean somebody who jumps all over you. It's not going to be about left or right. Don't talk to Aunt Hattie about Uncle Joe because they're Broken up now and she's going to go all woke on you.

Gavin Newsom (43:56)

I'm just guessing.

Bill Maher (44:07)

What about capitalizing black?

John McWhorter (44:11)

I didn't care at first. I felt capital enough. And I don't like changing. And you can't capitalize white because that's associated with white supremacists. I just couldn't be bothered. So I watched everybody else do it. But frankly, the New York Times likes you to do it, and so you get in the habit. And I must admit, I don't want to admit this. I don't like change. But about six months ago, I realized in other stuff that I write, I'm capitalizing black, which means that it can be easy even for fussy people like me to change their habits. Capital T. They notice I'm fixated on that.

Bill Maher (44:50)

Okay, Alicia Ortiz is suing Connecticut High School because she went there and she can't read or write. She graduated with honors. Now, she does have dyslexia, but it's making a lot of people ask now that we are talking about getting rid of the Department of Education, is there any validity to that since the kids in high school are graduating without being able to read or write? And I think it's great that she's suing. I think every kid should do it.

Ricky Schlatt (45:27)

I think we certainly need reform. I mean, only 31% of 8th graders right now can read it at proficient levels. That is dismal, and that's unacceptable for a country like America. But another part of this story that I found really surprising was that, and this is not to criticize this girl, but she's now a freshman in college. And when I heard that, I thought, how do you pass the SAT if you can't read or write? Or how do you score adequately? And her college UConn is still in the test optional phase from COVID They don't require test scores anymore. And this is part of this larger move away from meritocracy in the name of equity that I think is really destroying our institutions of higher learning. Even at Harvard this year, they had to start a remedial math course because so many of their students during that test optional phase did not even have basic algebra and geometry skills down.

Bill Maher (46:15)

Well, I just saw a video of kids on spring break, and they do this every year. It's Jay Leno's old jaywalking bit, where they just walk up to people and ask them really basic questions. We showed it one year, the new version, but it's the same bit. And, you know, I mean, questions that are just preposterously easy for at least our brilliant audience would understand. But really it's true. I mean, these people know things. They wouldn't be watching this show if they didn't. But I'm talking about like questions like, you know, what's the biggest city in the world? Europe. And these are not joke answers. And I. No, the new one. They asked them, who won the Civil War? The American.

Ricky Schlatt (46:59)

Technically, that's right.

Bill Maher (47:01)

In a way, poetically it is. I don't think that's. I think they knew it the way you were. Who was the first person to walk on the sun? On the sun? Who did they think it was? Lance Armstrong, of course. Of course. And you know, I've had people, parents say, I've heard you talk about this stuff, Bill. And you know, yeah, it's, you know, you can cherry. I don't think it's cherry picking. I guess there are school districts where they still teach kids something. But I think mostly when parents talk about this, everybody thinks their own kid is a genius. I'd like to talk to your kid. I bet you they're not. I bet you they don't know a lot and it's not their fault. And that's why I love this lawsuit. This girl is saying, you let me out, you signed my diploma with honors and I can't even read or write. I mean, this country is just, it's.

John McWhorter (48:01)

Partly the schools of education. It's one of those things where if you went to the typical education conference, you might be very surprised at how little people are taught how to educate instead. So often it's all tied up up in how to teach students to be good leftist activists, or how to teach students to be nice, or there's a code for all of this empathy. And so it's all about social justice and the people mean well, but what they've forgotten, and this really goes back to the 70s, but it's extreme now, like so many things, is that schools of education too often don't teach anybody how to teach students things. So that includes how to read. And until we fix that, we're going to continue to have cases like this. And it really is, it's an American tragedy and nothing really ever seems to make a dent in it. Nowadays we're beginning to know about phonics. That big, big surprise to teach people how to read, unless they live in book lined homes, you have to teach them how to sound out the words, boy, rocket science. There, that's something. But we're going to keep getting that girl until education Schools teach something called education.

Bill Maher (49:04)

All right, well, I can read a prompter and it says, time for new rules, everybody. New rules. All right, new rule. Now that we know a journalist was mistakenly added to a group chat with national security officials, we no longer have to guess how Pete Hegseth got caught cheating on his wives. Hey, sexy. I can be at the Lucky Stuff Motel in an hour. Pete, this is your wife. Neural since 23andMe just declared bankruptcy and Dollar Tree just sold Family Dollar at a loss of $7 billion, they have to form a new company. Family Tree. Family Tree. Where you can find out that your ancestors came here in 1910 and you can made in the same year. Noor. When I push the elevator close door button, the door has to close immediately. Not in five seconds, not in eight seconds. There's a guy coming down the hall with three suitcases and a crying baby. Stop fucking with and do your job. That's right. New rule. The Florida cop who spent two weeks waiting for a thief who swallowed a pair of diamond earrings to pass them must please tell me that after sealing the evidence bag, he looked at his partner and said, I'm getting too old for this shit. Noor. Let's stop making it a news story every time we arrest someone. Hot. Here's this week's entry into our national hot criminal yearbook. University of Georgia student Lily Stewart. This is actually her second arrest this year, which is so embarrassing. You look like this and you can't get out of a ticket in the South. And finally, new rule to those on the right who keep asking me, bill, you're so good at roasting the woke nonsense peddlers, why don't you go all the way and join us? Let me give you the short because I don't want to live in North Korea. Kim Jong Un has state stenographers who follow him everywhere and scribble his genius ideas into their notebooks and applaud. Well, Republicans, that's you. Now, Republican Congressman Addison McDowell wants to name Dulles Airport after Trump. It'll be like other airports, except the international terminal only has departures. There's also a bill in Congress to add Trump to Mount Rushmore because, like Washington, he's a page. Like Teddy Roosevelt, he's a renegade. And like Abraham Lincoln, he's not really helping the theater scene in Washington, D.C. yeah, the Kennedy center is not something I really care a lot about. But I do care that an American president doesn't see anything wrong with him personally taking it over or that his communications director, Stephen Cheung, said it Was justified because Trump, quote, is a virtuoso and is. And his musical choices represent a brilliant palette of vibrant colors when others often paint in pale pastels. Jesus, Stephen, don't get any in your hair. Republicans dance like Trump now. They name weapons systems after him. They've even dressed like him with the trademark suit and tie. Available exclusive. Available exclusively at Banana Republic. Yeah, all these super macho guys eating the ass of another man. Some even talk like him. Now with the crazy over the top exaggerations about our new tariff policy. Commerce Secretary Ludnick said these policies, important thing America has ever had. Yeah, take that, Emancipation Proclamation in Louisiana purses and these bills they've introduced to make Trump's birthday a holiday and put him on currency and Mount Rushmore. This is not what we do here, guys. He's still in office for. Guys, can we see how it turns out before we put him on a stamp? If I admit that there is a level of Trump derangement syndrome on the left, will you admit that this shit is also deranged? All the people on the right who say they certainly don't agree with me on everything, but they respect the way I keep it real about the left and like me because I'm honest. Well, that's a two way street. Are you being honest? At Trump's speech this month to a joint session of Congress, he claimed the government had spent $8 million making mice transgender. It did not. The 8 million was for transfer transgenic mice, mice that were being genetically modified to study how hormone treatments affect human health. We were splicing their genes, not making them compete in women's sports. We weren't spending 8 million to give mice big balls or fake tits. Sorry, Stuart Little. Wait, here's the thing. Here's the important thing about this. The fact that President Trump got this wrong isn't what bothers me. Transgender mice is crazy, but it's not crazier than a thousand other things that our government has funded over the years, like developing origami condoms or studying why chimps fling their feces. Okay, no. What's worrisome about it is that nobody around the president would dare tell him that transgenic is not transgender. It makes you think that if Trump came down one day and his fly was open, Republicans wouldn't tell him. They'd just start showing up with their fly open. At that same speech, Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett, a Trump appointee, pissed off Steve Bannon because apparently the look on her face was not one of sufficient enrapturement. Bannon showed the video of her to his viewers and said, that's not a look of admiration. Yeah, nothing too North Korean about that. So. So I know my Republican friends, when you hear cult, you roll your eyes. But let me add one thing to it that you might not have heard. You know, a cult is really a cult when the leader asks you to turn on friends and family because they're the only ones who are a threat to deprogram you. It's why Tom Cruise doesn't talk to his own kid. Which brings me to America, suddenly saying to our close, closest friend in the world, you know what? Fuck Canada. For no particular reason. I don't know for sure where Jesse Watters of Fox News stood on invading Canada 12 weeks ago, but I'm guessing it wasn't on his mind at all. But now his message for Canada is, the fact that they don't want us to take them over makes me want to invade. But Canada isn't threatening us, for God's sake. Their flag is a leaf. Even Joe Rogan, a Trump voter, said, why are we upset at Canada? This is stupid. Okay, MAGA people, that's called thinking for yourself. At the end of Trump's first term, there were still some people who would occasionally correct him on little details. Like, you lost that last election. But now we have Lauren Boebert saying we must rally behind President Trump to secure his third term, something Steve Bannon is advocating for as well. And, you know, you just know entire Republican Party will be on this page. Okay? There's no fuzz on this. It's as clear as 1, 2, 3. Presidents get two terms, not more. No matter how wonderful you think they are, it's written in black and white in the Constitution. Guys, you know this is wrong. You know in your heart, this is the moment when Rome stops being a republic. So come on, be like those mice and grow a pair of boys. All right, that's our show. We're off next week and back on April 11th. I want to thank John McWhorter, Ricky Flood, and Governor Gavin Newsome. Drops every Sunday on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcast. And now watch us on overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.

John McWhorter (60:15)

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