← Real Time with Bill Maher
Real Time with Bill Maher
Ep. #703: Thomas Chatterton Williams, Molly Jong-Fast, Walter Kirn
00:59:50
Real Time with Bill Maher, News, Jokes, Politics, Overtime
Loading summary
Transcript142 lines
- [00:04]
Bill Maher
If you're thirsting for asphalt melting your work boots, tape measure has anger issues. Nail guns, talking smack again.
- [00:09]
Molly Jong-Fast
And hard hat baked onto head level refreshments. We definitely have that.
- [00:18]
Bill Maher
Cool off with Gatorade Summer Blaze. Available only at Circle K. When you're.
- [00:24]
Molly Jong-Fast
Feeling the heat, Circle K makes your day.
- [00:32]
Bill Maher
Some people think nature is like this, but actually it's like this. Mother Nature is not all sunshine and rainbows. Nature can be hotter than a sauna and colder than an arctic skinny dip. That's why Colombia engineers everything we make for anything nature can throw at you. Columbia engineered for whatever. Welcome to an HBO podcast from the.
- [01:04]
Walter Kern
HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Ma.
- [01:07]
Bill Maher
Start the clock. Thank you very much, people. Great to be here. I appreciate it. How are you doing? Okay. Well, I know exciting political times. Thank you very much. Well, this, this is one of those Fridays, very exciting. Which is literally breaking news. I know you see that everywhere. Breaking news. It's never breaking news. Actually, it could be tonight because Trump and Putin are up in Alaska. They're having a bros before hoes weekend, doing a whole mountain head thing up there. And it's happening right now. They're about to do the press conference. So while we're on, maybe we'll get some information. But the. Of course, what it's all about is trying to end this horrible war in Ukraine been going on for too long. And Trump and Putin, they finally said, look, let's just meet thug to thug, handle this in person. So they've already met. They got off the plane, they drove in the car, just them and the translators. Very romantic. Then, well, we'll see. And then they had a working breakfast and then what they call a bilateral lunch. That's where the chef comes out and carves up Ukraine. But no, they've already lowered expectations. Hopefully, we'll hope something good, but, you know, because they both know they're going to piss each other off. I mean, Putin is going to try Trump's patience. We're going through all this stuff about how Ukraine is really historically part of Russia. And of course, Putin is going to have to sit there while Trump goes on and on about his fucking ballroom. Oh, thank God for the ballroom, huh? Yeah. Trump could not have been happier to get out of Washington, D.C. which he has discovered is crime ridden. No, he did. He discovered that. Discovered that this week because, well, you know, I would say this about him, like many Republicans, let's just say they, they're anecdotal in their thinking. You know, when anecdotally things Happen. It really is. So somebody in the Trump administration got mugged. Big balls. Remember Big balls? He was part of Doge. He's a teenager and he was mugged, carjacked, I think by two other teenagers, ironically, when they were kicking the shit out of him. He was curled up in a big ball. Not funny. It's not funny. He got. Well, it's, you know, it's a little embarrassing to the bro squad out there who think of themselves as such tough guys. Because he got beat up by two 15 year olds. This is true. And one was a girl. And they, they were brutal. They hijacked his car and then they made fun of his playlist. Really, really terrible stuff.
- [04:54]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
And.
- [04:57]
Bill Maher
But Trump has had it with Washington D.C. he said this is a city full of crime, bloodshed, bedlam and squalor. Also the name of his law firm. And listen to this. He's gonna clear the town of the homeless. We're gonna get them off the streets and into the programs we just cut. And so, yeah, so look, if you are, if you're homeless in dc, Hear me now. Oh boy. If you're pushing a shopping cart and muttering to yourself, it better be. Cause you can't believe the price of beef. Oh, yeah, beef. Ground beef is the new eggs. Inflation. It's happening, people. It's happening again. And you didn't hear it from me or anybody else because we don't have real statistics anymore. You know, you saw that last week. Trump got numbers he didn't like from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and he fired the who was head of it. Now he's got a new guy. I'm not sure this guy is really that objective. He said to Trump today, I can give you September's numbers if you want him now. And oh, and listen to this. Melania says she's going to sue Hunter Biden. No, that's not the joke part. That's real. She says she's going to sue for a billion dollars. That's kind of funny. But because something Hunter said, you know, he said the way that Melania is what Hunter said met Trump was through Jeffrey Epstein. Ooh, you don't say that. So, you know, if Hunter loses, it's gonna be weird for him writing a woman a check because she's not a prostitute. But I saved the best story for last. Marijuana. You've heard of it? Okay, well, it's forever. It's been a Schedule 1 drug which all us potheads and any reasonable person has realized. It's such a stupid thing. It's in there with the worst sort of horrible drugs like heroin and, you know. Okay. Trump is considering reclassifying it as a much less dangerous Schedule 3 drug. And they say it wasn't smart to have dinner with him. Okay, well, we got a great show. We have Walter Kern and Molly Jung Bass. But first up, he is a staff writer at the Atlantic. His newest book is called Summer of Our the Age of Certainty and the Divisive Discourse. Thomas Chatterton Williams, who I always call Sir Thomas. Sir Thomas, how are you? All right, now, I do call you Sir Thomas Chatter. You're not actually a sir, but it sounds like it should be, doesn't it? Sir Thomas Jadderson.
- [08:12]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
I mean, my dad loves that you call me that.
- [08:14]
Bill Maher
I hope everyone does. You deserve it. The book is terrific. I think you have exactly the right subject here. You're writing about the year 20. 20. 20. Some dates are red letter dates. You know, they call them that in history. They just stand out. Obviously, 1776. Kids don't even know what that is anymore. But I promise you, it's important. Thomas Friedman always writes about 1979. That was a big year in the Middle east and affected everything going on today. 2020, I think you got the right year. But you tell us right away just why you think this is such a red letter date of a year.
- [08:48]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Yeah, I mean, I think that there's been a lot of cultural amnesia about this really tumultuous summer. You know, we had the pandemic, we had the racial reckoning, we had the specter of Trump hanging over everything, and we've kind of just wanted to move on. And then there's also this argument that, you know, with Trump back in office, is it really necessary to relitigate the past and think about what went wrong before? We should be thinking about the emergency right now, but I think it's like if a plane crashes, you actually really need to find and examine the black box, you know, and so some of our discontent is really trying to do that for this moment and try to understand what actually was so unattractive about when the progressive movement, the social justice movement that we call wokeness, dominated the culture to such an extent that what Trump was offering really seemed more attractive to an increasingly multiethnic coalition of American voters.
- [09:43]
Bill Maher
So you're saying that basically because there was an overreaction, both about COVID I think a lot of people would say, and also about racial stuff, which obviously everybody was appalled by what happened. But then we went to a place where people were saying looting is cool. Just stuff that was just too far. You're saying that paved the way for the second Trump administration? In a lot of ways, I'm saying.
- [10:05]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
It really turned off a lot of Americans. The way I think about Wokeness and the aspirations that that movement had for how the country should operate, it's disproven most powerfully by its success, by its successes, not by its failures. So you look at what Wokeness achieved when, you know, if you look at Lowell High School up in San Francisco, the idea that Merit itself was racist, and the answer to that is to abolish merit based entrance exams. And then you suddenly have a school that was one of the best in the nation with failing freshmen, the number of freshmen who are failing skyrocketing. Or you look at what happened in Minneapolis after George Floyd died. You have the idea that you should dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with the Department of Public Safety, and you immediately have, by November of that year, homicides skyrocket by 50%. So wokeness actually did. It attained a certain type of power, and it was disproven in its actual dominance.
- [11:06]
Bill Maher
It often does wind up hurting the people they want to protect. Absolutely. I know. I think it was in Minneapolis where they did fire a lot of the police, or at least enough of them, so that what happened was then the richer people hired them back as private security.
- [11:23]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Yeah.
- [11:23]
Bill Maher
And it's just there's a new book about COVID also, which talks about how, you know, the people who just absolutely hate privilege were the ones who instituted this lockdown and who was getting their food delivered to them and by who.
- [11:39]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
By the people who were most at risk.
- [11:41]
Bill Maher
Exactly. The poorer people, probably more minorities were out there delivering the goddamn grub driver or whatever. You buy your food, whatever that shit is. I don't. And the people, you know, latest class was sitting home in their pajamas getting food delivered to them, writing emails about how terrible privilege is.
- [12:01]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Absolutely.
- [12:02]
Bill Maher
I mean, I think that's the kind of stuff you're getting at here. So are we at a better place now? Are we at a different place?
- [12:08]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Well, part of what I was getting at is that the people that actually dismantled the police department didn't suffer its consequences. The people who actually came out and voted to bring the police back were the people who live around violence in a more than theoretical way. Are we at a better place now? I'm not so sure. I think that what we can do now is to understand what went wrong and to try to understand why Trump presented a vision of America that was more attractive than what had been presented prior to that. And try to correct for that, not to double down on wokeness. There's this kind of idea that real wokeness hasn't been tried yet and that if we just do it more then the country will finally come around to that vision. But I don't see that as happening.
- [12:48]
Bill Maher
You do write a lot about in the book about you thought when Obama was president we had reached a kind of a post racial phase in this country. I think a lot of people did, but we really hadn't. Anytime he talked about race, it all came back. And you kind of have to blame that on the conservatives. I mean, they were not really ready, a lot of them. I'm not saying every conservative is a racist, but certainly in that era, if you were a racist, you were a conservative. Probably mostly true, but still today they were not ready to give something up. And of course, you know, we all keep talking about backlashes from one to the other. Certainly just Obama being president caused a backlash.
- [13:29]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Yeah, I think that the presence of this elegant meritocratic black family in the White House, it did excite in the American racial imagination something that was unacceptable to some portion of the population. But also there was at the time such goodwill. It really, it was a moment when much of the country was proud of a kind of milestone that seemed to have been passed. The idea that we might actually be able to put behind us these past oppressions that had defined the country and the society up until then and perhaps we could actually start afresh. And you know, I was in Europe for the past 15 years and I traveled back and forth prior to that. And the way that the rest of the world regarded us was really something. There was a sense that America was, was doing something that the rest of the world hadn't figured out how to do. Have a multi ethnic society that de emphasized identity differences and actually came together to have a common nationality regardless of superficial characteristics. That was lost. And I don't know if that was only the conservative racist. That was also this disillusionment that his election didn't solve all of our problems led to a kind of fetishization of identity on the left that I think has been really, really backfiring and is part of what has excited this kind of backlash that we have now. This populist backlash.
- [14:45]
Bill Maher
Yes, I would agree with that 100%. We were heading toward at least the goal of a colorblind society. That was the goal. It doesn't matter. You know, we see it, but it doesn't affect us, that went out the window and we went a completely different direction. If we have to see race first and foremost as the most important thing. It's funny because you say something about how you think race is a social fiction, which is very similar to what Kendi said, and he is the exact opposite of you. He said he thought race was made up. How do you square that between you and a guy who is very different from you on race?
- [15:25]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Well, I think we both would acknowledge that racism certainly exists, but we have different ideas about what should be done to counteract that. What Ibram x Kendi did, that I think was the conventional wisdom of this time, when the social justice movement I keep calling wokeness peaked in power around 2020, was. He said that every aspect of society, every idea, policy, is either racist or anti racist. There's no way in which it can just be neutral. And so he introduced, he ushered in a kind of emphasis on racializing all aspects of our public and collective life that I think actually backfired extraordinarily. And it made a lot of white people who maybe were thinking that it was disreputable to think of themselves as whites first and foremost. I mean, in a society when every other group is thinking primarily of itself as a racial bloc with political interests as such, what was going to happen when white people were incentivized to see themselves that way? And I think we see what is happening right now.
- [16:27]
Bill Maher
Yeah, I mean, you're a professor at a college, right? I mean, it's odd to me that students who are 20 in that age range now seem, in some instances, what I'm reading, a lot more bitter about race than people who actually faced more racism in years past.
- [16:45]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Yeah, I think as society becomes more equal, even the smallest inequalities become more and more unbearable in societies. My father grew up in segregated Texas. Microaggressions were not a thing back then. Lynchings were a thing. My father was born in 1937. Microaggressions were not in the vocabulary.
- [17:06]
Bill Maher
No, no, they were not.
- [17:08]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
But as society becomes more and more equal, Tocqueville pointed this out in France, every small inequality becomes insupportable. You can't bear it. And so you see that people can even be, you know, on Broadway. And the idea that there's racial inequality makes them protest for more inclusion on Broadway. Or Oscar's so white.
- [17:31]
Bill Maher
Or Sydney Sweeney saying, I have good genes. I think, you know, she just. Her saying I have good genes wasn't saying, and black people have bad ones. But that's kind of where we got to this place that you just say you have good. It means no, not taking it away from you, but maybe, you know, don't speak at all. But I'm curious at what your students think of you because you are not as left as they are.
- [17:59]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Probably not. Probably not.
- [18:01]
Bill Maher
Do they hold that against you? Do they don't care because you're cute?
- [18:07]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
I'm guessing that I'm gonna tell them Bill Maher said that. No.
- [18:11]
Bill Maher
Okay.
- [18:13]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
I think that they understand that I have a vision of what it is to be a liberal. They understand that I don't define myself as a conservative. And then also, I have to be honest, in this day and age, a lot of them are understanding what they think I want to hear via ChatGPT. So that's a different kind of problem. They're not necessarily telling me what they think. And I think people are always falsifying their preferences on college campuses. So they see a professor like me and they orient what they say to me in class to try to anticipate what my views are as they do with each other. You know, there's been research out of Northwestern recently about the kind of performance of progressive values that some 88% of undergrads don't actually hold themselves, but they perform in front of their peers. And they have the idea that that's how they can succeed in school, in their social circles, and with their professors.
- [19:08]
Bill Maher
That's frightening and shitty. I hope you can change that all.
- [19:12]
Molly Jong-Fast
By yourself or Chad jtach.
- [19:15]
Bill Maher
All right, thank you. Yeah, good luck with that. The word of ChatGPT. Doing all their homework. Thomas Chatterton Williams. Sir. Thomas Chatterton, good to see you. Thank you. Let's lead our panel. Hey. Hello. Okay. He's a bestselling author and editor at large of county highway newspaper. Walter Kern. Walter, welcome. Welcome back to our show. She hosts the Fast Politics podcast and is the bestselling author of how to Lose youe Mother A Daughter's Memor. Molly Jong Fast, welcome to our show. Okay, here is the breaking news. I'm just reading this. Cold. So Japan has fallen into the sea. Oh, no. They took that. They had. They had a press conference. I guess that was quick because from the time I went on to do the monologue, it's over. So I'm guessing this didn't go that well. They took no questions. Another bad sign. Putin says they have reached an agreement to pave the path to peace in Ukraine. Means nothing without saying what the agreement actually is. Says the roots of blah blah Blah. The removal of Zeleski's government. That's. He's always wanted that Trump. We haven't quite got there, but we've got some headway. There's no deal until there's a deal. Wow. This sounds like I went to Alaska in 2013. I think I had a better trip. I at least did a show. Surprising. Disappointed. What's your reaction?
- [20:55]
Molly Jong-Fast
I wish it had happened in winter because the only outfit I haven't seen Trump wear is a parka. I mean, McDonald's uniform, garbage truck driver. I also wish there had been more outdoor activities. It being Alaska, they could have gone fishing. But the world is divided between people who didn't want it to happen and people who don't want it to succeed. You seem to want it to succeed. So do I. Unless we're going to get rid of Putin. Unless we're going to eliminate him. We could have dropped a bomb from that B2. We're going to have to talk to him at some point.
- [21:33]
Bill Maher
Who doesn't want it to succeed? Succeed? Everybody wanted.
- [21:36]
Molly Jong-Fast
There are people. There are people who didn't want to see Putin walk across that red carpet and didn't like it when Trump waved to him.
- [21:43]
Bill Maher
I mean. Oh, I see. Yeah.
- [21:44]
Walter Kern
I mean, it crushed some norms, having him walk across a red. Red carpet while Trump clapped. I mean, that generally.
- [21:52]
Bill Maher
Oh, come on. Are we really going to go through this kind of bullshit? Like, it's, it's like, you know, Obama wore a tan suit and he saluted with coffee in his hand. Who gives a shit what he walks dying over there?
- [22:09]
Molly Jong-Fast
The body language, to me put the lie to the notion that we've had for 10 years that Trump is Putin's stooge. Putin looked like his caddy. I mean, he really did. He's half his height. He was sort of smiling uncomfortably. I think we can lay to rest the idea that Trump is some Russian agent. I actually wish that he'd been a little kinder to him. I thought he was intimidating.
- [22:35]
Walter Kern
What just. Has Putin made any peace deals that have worked? I mean, that's my question. Like, he's clearly. Because I've seen countries that he's made peace deals about, and they don't look great. Right. Like, I mean, he's been a very difficult person to make a deal with. And I think it'si mean nobody. Everybody wants peace in Ukraine. Right. This is terrible war that's going on and on. But, you know, you have to be able to take Putin at his word.
- [23:03]
Bill Maher
Which I think hei mean, I don't look, I don't think he was exactly a Russian agent, but, you know, Russiagate was not, you know, completely made up.
- [23:11]
Molly Jong-Fast
Well, Bill, there we disagree. I think we're finding out day by day that it was almost completely made up.
- [23:16]
Bill Maher
Oh, please. It's on tape. He's asking the Russians for help on tape which he gave them that day. They released those emails that day that they hacked. He said, could you please hack some shit? They did it and released it that day to help him. So don't tell me there's no smoke. Let's not get, let's not relitigate that ear because I.
- [23:36]
Molly Jong-Fast
Well, we are relitigating it because it's before a grand jury right now and we'll find out who.
- [23:40]
Bill Maher
Ok, but let me ask a broader question because first I take your point. I think it's kind of a zombie lie that Trump is Putin's, you know, bitch. Because I mean, he certainly was over friendly to him for a very long time considering who Putin is a thug and a murderer.
- [23:59]
Molly Jong-Fast
In 2015, Obama met him and nobody said anything in New York.
- [24:03]
Bill Maher
Met him. He didn't praise him, he didn't say he's the greatest guy in the world. I could read 20 compliments that Trump has given to him. He said he's a fun guy to be with. No, that's Epstein.
- [24:16]
Walter Kern
I think the timing of this, the timing of this, like we're no longer talking about the, the tariffs, we're no longer talking about those bad inflation numbers. We're no longer talking about the consumer confidence numbers today. We're no longer talking about Epstein or about Ghislaine being in a different lower security prison. I mean, we're talking about this deal which may or very likely may not happen.
- [24:41]
Bill Maher
Well, we are going to talk about those things.
- [24:43]
Walter Kern
Right, but we are. We are.
- [24:45]
Bill Maher
But. Well, tomorrow they will be. I mean, this is today. I mean it's not. Look, I'll say this for Trump. He's got this idea that America is still the biggest swinging dick in the world and we have not used our power as much as we should. That's what the tariffs are about. We have the power to change these people's other nations trading practices with us, some of which were out of line. I'm surprised that people went along with it as much as they did. So he wasn't completely wrong about that. He said, look, NATO hasn't been paying their fair share. I'm going to make them do that. He wasn't wrong about that. And I'll tell You this one thing about him that I know. I'm not going to tell you how I know. But a lot of people have seen the same thing. He really does hate war. He really does not like it when people die in war. There's four different wars.
- [25:38]
Molly Jong-Fast
It's messy. He doesn't like messy things. I don't think Trump likes waste. I don't think he likes chaos.
- [25:44]
Bill Maher
What? Trump doesn't like chaos?
- [25:54]
Molly Jong-Fast
Isn't he a hand washer? Isn't he one of those neat freaks? I mean, he goes around the White House straightening out the paintings.
- [26:01]
Bill Maher
Molly, would you slap him? I can't reach it. Okay, but. Or maybe, you know, it's funny, I see that today is the anniversary of Woodstock. This is a 56 years ago. And the hippies, what did they hate more than anything else?
- [26:17]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
War.
- [26:17]
Bill Maher
What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. So if you're the kind of person who says, you know, you can find some good in anybody, this would be the good in Donald Trump. He really does not like war. Thailand and Cambodia were having a firing at each other. Rwanda and the Congo, most people don't even know about these. India and Pakistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan. He got involved in all of them. He really. He doesn't really. He wants it now the way he does it, as usual. Not, you know, with Ukraine, the solution was, well, surrender, give Putin everything he wants. And even that didn't work. That's the thing. He gave Putin anything he wanted, and it didn't work. But again, let's not have the zombie lie that he's still backing Putin, because first of all, he bombed Iran. That was a Putin ally. He didn't get out of NATO.
- [27:09]
Walter Kern
No.
- [27:10]
Bill Maher
He mended fences with NATO, so. And he put sanctions back on Russia.
- [27:16]
Molly Jong-Fast
So, you know, you're really coming around, Bill.
- [27:18]
Bill Maher
I'm not coming around. There's no coming around. There's just what's true. This is true shit, right? I don't come around. I'm not on anybody's team. I'm on the team. I'm on what's right, what's true, what happened. This is what happened. He just doesn't like war.
- [27:35]
Walter Kern
Can I just add one thing?
- [27:37]
Bill Maher
Yeah.
- [27:37]
Walter Kern
I think that there is. The public appetite for war is small now, and thank God for that. But in the cause, remember, you know, in the 90s and the 2000s, we were in forever wars. And that is something that is sort of a nonpartisan thing all of a sudden. And I mean, I think it's very good, but there really is not a lot of Public appetite for war. And I think he. And he is where the zeitgeist is on that.
- [28:02]
Bill Maher
Yeah, often. Yeah. But okay, so he's given himself a lot of these jobs we're talking about here. I mean, he's the guy who decides tariffs now. That was never the President's job. He's the guy who decides which prisons get opened. He's the water commissioner for California. I don't know if you know that.
- [28:21]
Walter Kern
Yes.
- [28:24]
Bill Maher
Personally release all the water. He's the world peacemaker. He gets all the colleges to send the kids grades to him. He's looking at. Really, personally, he's looking at grades from college. And now he's the D.C. police chief.
- [28:41]
Walter Kern
You know, in an attention economy, he is the richest man in the world.
- [28:46]
Bill Maher
Yeah. He's also. Because he's corrupt, he's going to be the actual richest man in the world.
- [28:50]
Walter Kern
No question. No question.
- [28:58]
Bill Maher
And he's not only the board chair of the Kennedy center, he's hosting the show this year. Where is he gonna find time now that he's the D.C. police chief? Okay. So you're never gonna win an election, I think, by saying crime is down, even though it is. So this is the other big issue that people are talking about this week. He's all about D.C. crime. All right, let me give you the parameter. What's actually happening. DC does have high crime rates of Columbia. Higher than Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, which is right after them. But Shelby County, Tennessee, Jefferson County, Alabama, Jackson County, Missouri have higher murder rates than D.C. why don't we send the FBI there? Why don't we send the National Guard there?
- [29:50]
Molly Jong-Fast
Because only, only Washington D.C. is called the District of Columbia, meaning the federal District of Columbia, allowing us to constitutionally administer it from the White House. Those places have mayors. Washington D.C. is kind of on permanent probation. The federal government has a right to step in if it doesn't feel it's being used. You know, power is being used correctly there. They claim crime is down. Well, let's make it go down further. I mean, if it's a good thing to bring crime down, which the D.C. people have argued they have already bring.
- [30:23]
Bill Maher
It down further by dragging the homeless off the street. Now, I mean, to me, this is another instance of Trump having an idea that's not completely wrong. Like close the borders was out of control. He takes advantage of when liberals fuck up. Yes, go ahead.
- [30:39]
Walter Kern
Sorry. So two things about this crime. You know, nobody is pro crime. Right. Crime is bad. Okay. There's no like pro crime caucus. We love murder. No, nobody's Pro crime. So. And look, there is $1.1 billion of DC taxpayer money that is still being held, right. That has not been released to the city. And Congress was supposed to vote on that, but they went home. You know why they went home? Because of the Epstein stuff. Right? Mike Johnson sent everyone home a couple days early because his people wanted to release the Epstein files, and he really wanted to prevent that. So there is $1.1 billion, and that $1.1 billion is supposed to go to cops and teachers and people who work in homeless services. So if you wanted, theoretically, and look, nobody wants crime, you would give that $1.1 billion, which is already theirs, to them, so that they could hire more teachers and policemen and homeless services, number one. The other thing is these federal officers that are there, so they technically cannot arrest people, right? Because they are not D.C. police. Now, whether or not they are, that's another thing. But they are holding until actual DC Police come. So there's already a sort of. It's not working the way that you would theoretically wanted to. Plus, they have checkpoints. A lot of these checkpoints are in very nice neighborhoods. They're not. You know, I have a lot of friends who live in D.C. they're not in the really bad neighborhoods. I mean, it's. It's not about crime.
- [32:10]
Bill Maher
And checkpoints remind me of East Berlin, really.
- [32:15]
Walter Kern
And there's a question of the legality. I mean, Stephen Vladek was talking about this, the legality of these checkpoints, because you can checkpoint for drunk driving, but you can't necessarily checkpoint for, like, you annoy me.
- [32:30]
Bill Maher
But the idea that the streets actually belong to the citizens is something that liberals have just gotten away from. They made homelessness into a lifestyle. And we don't really know what the answer is, but it has to be some version of, you don't have to go home because you don't have one. We should do something about that. But you can't stay here. You can't, because we see this in this city more than any other. You can't just take over the streets of the city. So, again, as in so many of these instances, like with immigration, he's got not a totally erring idea that this is a problem, but then he goes about it in such a cruel and unnecessarily capricious way, which just seems like what he's doing now with the homeless situation. You know, we're going to get them into shelters or jail or whatever.
- [33:28]
Molly Jong-Fast
The California solution is a strange. Spend more money on it every year and have the problem get worse every year. Maybe they should put them on buses and just keep them on a constant tour. But it sometimes feels like all you do with the homeless. It's like mercury is push them around and you never reduce the volume. He's got to do something. D.C. is half a museum and half a city. It's half a showcase, a place where the school kids of America go to learn about the Supreme Court and so on. And I like them to see something of civic order when they get there. It's also the home to the embassies.
- [34:08]
Walter Kern
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.
- [34:36]
Bill Maher
Now at.
- [34:36]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Chipotle Our all new Chipotle Honey Chicken brings Chipotle heat with a touch of sweet, seared smoked peppers and savory Mexican spices blended with a hint of pure honey for a perfectly balanced sauce. All combined with fresh tender chicken hot off the grill.
- [34:51]
Bill Maher
Served up in your favorite burrito or.
- [34:53]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Bowl, New Chipotle Honey Chicken takes heat.
- [34:56]
Bill Maher
And sweet to a whole new level.
- [34:58]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
But it's only at Chipotle for a limited time.
- [35:00]
Bill Maher
Order now in the app for pickup or delivery.
- [35:03]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Chipotle for Real if you work as.
- [35:06]
Bill Maher
A manufacturing facilities engineer, installing a new piece of equipment can be as complex as the machinery itself. From prep work to alignment and testing, it's your team's job to put it all together. That's why it's good to have Grainger on your side. With industrial grade products and next day delivery, Grainger helps ensure you have everything you need close at hand through every step of the installation. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. All right, well speaking of that, ICE is recruiting. I don't know if you know this, we talked about it last week. There's going to be almost no age limits. You can be as young as 18 or as old as you want to be. There's it's not Biden could join ice. They are looking for a few good men. Obviously their goals are to round up so many people that they need poor people, more people to do the rounding up. So they've come out with some. I mean these are real recruitment posters they have. I know they look like a gag, but they're not. Defend the homeland. Join ice. No edge cap. Join ice. Now, those are not all the recruitment posters. Would you like to see the ice? These are some of the other ICE recruitment. For example, Joy. Nice. It's like Starship Troopers but with Mexicans. Oh, joy. Nice. It's time to take America back from the people we stole it from. Join ice. Because Jesus and angels belong in the Bible, not your neighborhood. Think about that one. Ice like an only fans model. We take all comers. Yesterday I was choking the chicken. Today I'm choking a guy at a chicken processing plant. Thanks, ice. If you can read this, you're already qualified. Also, if you can't read this, join ice. The next next thing to actually having a big dick. And if you don't join ice, we'll kill this dog. Okay, Remember that old National Lampoon? All right, so let's get off politics for a minute. Maybe we'll go back. I do want to talk about the economy, but I. Because your book is so good and it's about parenting, and there was two stories in the news this week about parenting. I thought we'd get onto that. I mean, your mother, if people don't know, was Erika Zhang. And you know, she was one of the last of a breed I would call a celebrity writer. I don't know if we'll ever have another one because I don't know if people are ever going to. To read books again. But she was not just a writer, but she became a celebrity. She hit a nerve with the culture. And your book is about growing up with her and how. Let's just say she was a little distracted by being a celebrity from you. But I saw these two stories in the news. One was about a tennis match, the Cincinnati Open. And there was a baby screaming during the match. And you know, tennis is played in silence. And one of the players said, could you get that kid out of here? And what are you oohing about? She was right. The umpire said, it's a child. Do you want me to send the child out of the stadium? And the crowd went, yes. Tennis is quiet. Why are you bringing a baby to a tennis match? And then a Colombian rapper named Maluma. Not that I have to tell you. Maluma. Maluma. Fans, where am I? Okay. Oh, you are. Okay. Okay. I don't know him, and I'm sure he doesn't know me, and that says a lot about society, but okay. But he was doing his show, and a woman had an infant and this is Mr. Maluma. He said, do you think it's a good idea to bring a baby? He stopped his show and berated this woman. I fucking love this. He said, do you think it's a good idea to bring a baby. Baby who's a year old to a concert where the decibels are so fucking high and the sound is so loud that baby doesn't even know what they're doing here? Next time, protect their ears. It's your responsibility. You're waving the kid around like they're a toy. That baby doesn't want to be here. Thank you, Mr. Maloma. All right, that's my rant. And now you.
- [39:48]
Walter Kern
I have a lot of children now. They're old because I had them when I was very young. I have to say that. But no, they, you know, I didn't take them places because babies are very annoying, and I didn't want to subject other people to them.
- [40:02]
Bill Maher
But it's a thing now. It's not just at concerts. I mean, when a rapper from the.
- [40:07]
Molly Jong-Fast
Country that gives us cocaine calls out your parenting, you're doing something wrong.
- [40:12]
Bill Maher
Right. Well, I don't know why we have to drag cocaine into this.
- [40:24]
Molly Jong-Fast
But why did only one of the tennis players complain? It was obviously helping the other one's game.
- [40:29]
Bill Maher
I mean, because she was serving at the time. Oh, oh, oh. I think it would have been either one. I think they might agree tennis is supposed to be played quietly.
- [40:38]
Walter Kern
I mean, the good news is people are having children. There is one baby there, right? I mean, we're not having a ton.
- [40:44]
Bill Maher
Of kids right now, but babies go to bars now. I can't believe that's even allowed. I'm assuming only beer and wine. Yeah. No mixed drinks. That would be out.
- [40:58]
Walter Kern
And light cigarette cigarettes.
- [41:00]
Molly Jong-Fast
Light cigarettes on abstinent island. Babies can drink, actually.
- [41:04]
Bill Maher
Well, okay. Ha ha. But I mean, I feel like parents, they just have this idea that it's the new parrot on their shoulder. You know, the hipster. Parents are like, well, you know, we're the cool people. We're not going to let having a kid change our lifestyle. We bring the baby to the concert. We bring them to the bar. It's ridiculous. It says something about where parenting is, I feel.
- [41:32]
Walter Kern
I mean, parents are very annoying, and babies are very annoying. And, I mean, I have a lot of children, but I agree with you. I think this is all very annoying. And by the way, if a rapper is yelling at you about your baby's hearing, you're probably not a very good parent.
- [41:56]
Bill Maher
Okay, so what are the things you said? We're not talking about that. I said I wanted Epstein. Oh, Epstein.
- [42:01]
Walter Kern
Inflation.
- [42:02]
Bill Maher
Okay. Yes, but see here, this thing. Epstein, no one cares anymore. Inflation. Yes. You know, about. I don't know, maybe it was 2018, when Trump. Trump's first term. I made the right wing lose their mind once because I said, you know, if we had a recession, it actually would be a good thing. Not that I'm, you know, wanting people to, like, have less money and. But, you know, no one starves during a recession. We've had 47 of them.
- [42:28]
Walter Kern
Yeah.
- [42:29]
Bill Maher
In fact, every Republican president has had at least one. Eisenhower had three. But I said, the only thing that gets to people, the only thing they really care about is the pocketbook issues. It's always the economy, stupid. As James Carville said. And the only thing that would save our democracy was. The point I was making is the only thing that would get people to not vote for Trump and lose faith in him is if the economy went in the shitter. Now, I don't want that to be the only way to get rid of him, but that's what it does look like. They don't care about Epstein anymore. That went away like a mild flu.
- [43:05]
Molly Jong-Fast
They didn't care about it before.
- [43:07]
Bill Maher
Yeah. They cared about it for about two weeks.
- [43:09]
Walter Kern
Yeah.
- [43:09]
Molly Jong-Fast
But about three years ago, when I wrote a piece for the New York Times, the first op ed about the stinking scandal of Epstein's supposed death, I was called Q Anon or, you know, some sort of lunatic conspiracy theorist for caring about this. The left took out the Epstein torch under Trump, and I'm afraid it was not the burning concern for many years.
- [43:36]
Walter Kern
Yes.
- [43:37]
Molly Jong-Fast
How long have you been talking about Epstein?
- [43:39]
Walter Kern
Well, I have certainly been talking. I mean, I think what was interesting about the Epstein case was that you had people in Trump's world, the MAGA podcasters who were interested in it, and you also had people like Pam Bondi saying that it was on her desk.
- [43:56]
Bill Maher
Yes. Oh, no. It's absolute betrayal. I mean, he said, when I get in there, I'm going to root out that Deep State bullshit. Boy, that Deep State. Ooh, they are quaking in their boots. And then when they found his name in it, and I don't think he was even. I don't know if he's the one who went to Epstein Island. I really don't think Donald Trump and Epstein were more than just, you know, buddies in New York, you know, bros and that kind of stuff. I don't think Donald Trump is the guy who was having sex with 14 year olds. I think he's a different kind of cat. He was a legitimate player, you know, he was a legitimate player and he had a lot of ladies and not all of them was he married to them at the time. But it doesn't matter.
- [44:39]
Molly Jong-Fast
This notion that there's a master list of everyone who went, you know who's on that list? Stephen Hawking. Stephen Hawking went to Epstein Island. Scientists from mit, Harvard, all sorts of.
- [44:50]
Walter Kern
Places went a lot of Democrats. But the point of this is that when Trump's administration started, they handed out these binders to MAGA influencers that were like Epstein files phase one.
- [45:02]
Molly Jong-Fast
So you're concerned that Trump voters aren't getting what Trump promised them?
- [45:05]
Bill Maher
They're not. Why don't they release it?
- [45:10]
Molly Jong-Fast
Well, I have a feeling they will. And I have a feeling that when they finally do, there are a lot of people who are going to be sad that they called for it. Frankly, I think it might be a big surprise that we are calling for only because Trump seems not to want it. You know, in Trumpside down world, everybody suddenly who knows that Bill Clinton went there 25 times knows that, you know, various.
- [45:36]
Bill Maher
Oh, no, no, no, no. He was on the plane.
- [45:38]
Molly Jong-Fast
Well, what did he do, jump off over the ocean?
- [45:40]
Bill Maher
I mean he. No, no, no, no. That's a bullshit for. That's a bullshit talking point and you know it. The plane went a lot of places. The plane didn't. There wasn't just a. No, Epstein island was the hub. Right? You had to go through there to get to Atlanta, to get your connection.
- [45:58]
Molly Jong-Fast
To get the connection to Saudi Arabia.
- [46:00]
Bill Maher
But why does, why doesn't Trump, if he's so innocent there, and maybe he's not innocent, why doesn't he want it released? See, I don't think that. I don't.
- [46:09]
Molly Jong-Fast
It's like Tom Sawyer with the fence, you know, keeping it in his pocket. He's making everybody want to see it. And I'm telling people, be careful what you wish for.
- [46:19]
Walter Kern
But I mean, even if say it was chock a block with Democrats from the 90s and 2000s, okay, so you know, then they stink and they should face either, you know, if they've done something really wrong, they should face.
- [46:32]
Molly Jong-Fast
My point is being on a list is not the same as partaking in illicit sex.
- [46:36]
Bill Maher
See, I don't, I don't think there's any actual physical list. The guy was a pimp. I don't think pimps write it down. They got it in their head, you.
- [46:44]
Walter Kern
Know, but also, why did Pam Bondi say it was on her desk?
- [46:47]
Molly Jong-Fast
Who knows? As I say, Trump, when he goes against something or withholds something, causes people to cry out for it, and it's a trick that he's used before and.
- [46:58]
Bill Maher
Okay, but that dog won't hunt. But the economy. I'm sorry. You know, I read this week he's. He passed the, signed the Genius act a few months ago. This is basically saying crypto is now part of the system, which means when it goes under, we're going to have to bail them out like we did in 2008. There's also $4.7 trillion now in crypto interest payments. Now a loan comes up, 20% of all federal spending, the debt, 100%, 1.7 million jobs in the clean energy sector, because we're not fond of that anymore. They went away. Then there's the big beautiful bill, and then there's the fact that AI is basically about to take everybody's jobs. And then the tariffs are finally kicking in. Now, about a month ago, I said, look, I had to own it. I said, I thought by July 4, the economy would be in the chitter. And it wasn't. I was wrong. But maybe I was wrong just by a matter of time. And I think I will. I just don't see this economy surviving all of this. And when it doesn't, that is the only thing that's going to get people to turn on Donald Trump.
- [48:06]
Walter Kern
And the tariffs are really like a flat tax because they're paid for. I mean, Trump wants companies to eat the tariffs. We all want companies to eat the tariffs. And that would be, by the way, a corporate tax.
- [48:16]
Bill Maher
And they stood for the beginnings don't.
- [48:18]
Walter Kern
Tend to love corporate taxes. Okay, I like a corporate tax. I'm a liberal. But what I think it's going to be is more like a flat tax. Right? So if, Because, I mean, the Yale Budget Lab estimates that an average family will pay about $2,400 more a year because of the tariffs.
- [48:34]
Bill Maher
We're already paying more. They say cars are going up $5,000. I mean, people are going to feel it. And when they do, I mean, Trump can say, no, I got my new statistic guy. He says it's not happening. You can Baghdad Bob this just for so long. And then people know what's up. I'm sorry, Walter, I gotta go to New Rules. Thank you, everybody. It's time for New rules. Okay? New rule. All the MAGA faithful who have been posting, we're so back because TikTok has been overrun by hot white sorority girls posting dance videos. Have to remember something. You know who else is back? The football team. In the future, let's make sure someone is really gone before taking out their organs for donation. A woman in Albuquerque just woke up from a coma minutes before they were about to take out her organs. And now some haters are saying she must have been faking it the whole time. No, women don't pretend to be asleep when an organ is about to be taken out. They pretend to be asleep to avoid an organ being put in neuro. Someone has to ask the cryptocurrency investors who've been throwing sex toys onto the court at WNBA games. How irresponsible can you be getting involved in crypto? And why throw a dildo at a WNBA game? Half of that league wouldn't know a dick if they tripped over it. New rule. If there's an ass kisser of the year award, they must give it to J.D. vance, who, when asked what three people living or dead, he'd invite to dinner, he said, isaac Newton, Trump and Lincoln. Oh, really? Not Cleopatra, not Jesus, but the guy down the hall you see every day. You know, it sounds like a great party, though. Trump would tell Lincoln, I could end the Civil War in a day. And he would. And he would say to Isaac Newton, I know more about gravity than anybody. And then both of them would be thinking, wait, am I in hell now? New rule. The people now asking us to be on Team Sweeney or Team Beyonce jeans ad need to go work out their shit from high school. Look, I accept that our politics will be really, really stupid, but not this stupid. Do I prefer my big tits be the color of cream or the color of coffee? Please, I'm an American. You had me at big tit. Thank you. And finally, new rule. Democrats need to get their shit together because we need two parties in this country and we desperately need the one that still concedes elections, doesn't sell the office, and doesn't want to completely switch out Democratic rule of law for rubber stamped autocracy. But that party is so fucked up right now. And nothing to me symbolized that more than this video. Why do I say that? Well, let me put it this way. I don't know for a fact that this couple are Democrats. I just know it's true. First off, the man is at a Coldplay concert. And while Republicans could like Coldplay, they don't. But they could. It's unlikely that this guy is a Christian conservative because he was having an affair With a woman? No, no. I knew they were Democrats for the same reason I knew this was a Democrat. You can't hide from the Kiss Cam, and you can't hide in the Oval Office. Damn, if only the lady at the Coldplay concert had brought some folders with her, maybe she wouldn't be in hot water now. Am I saying that only Democrats run and hide? No. Josh Hawley ran from a violent mob on January 6th. A mob that formed because people like Josh Hawley pretended Biden lost the election. But it was a violent mob. But Democrats seemed to be afraid of everything. They were petrified of COVID masking 2 year olds who never would have died from it and keeping some schools closed for far too long. They're definitely afraid of their kids, who from time immemorial have always come up with bad ideas. They're kids thinking up stupid shit is what they do. But parents used to tell them, that's ridiculous. The world doesn't work that way. Not today's parents. They say, you're right, honey. Gender is just a social construct. Please. Sometimes your mother and I forget which one of us has the dick. I know she has my balls. I mean, I don't know if we're still banning TikTok. That was before we changed the rule in America to Trump decides what's a law. But I know it wouldn't even be an issue if parents would sack up and tell their kids to get off the fucking phone. Democrats are still afraid of the mean girls who police their far out fringe. Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton had a perfect score on LGBTQ issues from the Human Rights Campaign. But when he said, I have two little girls, I don't want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete. His own campaign manager quit. And the chair of the Salem Democratic City Committee, Liz Bratt, accused Moulton of being, quote, what is known as a cooperator in Nazi times. Yeah, I think the word you're looking for moron is collaborator. And I'm guessing everything you know about Nazi Times comes from TikTok. But imagine that a congressman merely stands up for the liberal principle, the one we used to call, we do still call Title 9 that women get an equal shot in sports. And now it gets you labeled a Nazi. The reason Gretchen Whitmer looked like a toddler playing Peek a Boo in the Oval Office is she's afraid of the Liz brats of the world and the 12 Social Justice warriors on the Internet. And what they might tweet to their seven followers Alyssa Slotkin calls her party weak and woke. She's right. People vote on instinct. They can smell fear a swing state away and they'd rather have strong and wrong. Having sex with Stormy Daniels was wrong. But Trump didn't hide from the camera. Quite the opposite, it looks like he said to the photographer, widen that out so you can get these tits. He's got his mugshot hanging outside the Oval Office. He's literally got a guy working for him named Big Balls. It's like if Gavin Newsom had a henchman named Perfect Hair. Hey, at least Gavin comes here. People ask me all the time, why haven't you ever had Hillary or Bill Clinton on? Why didn't you have Kamala on during the last campaign? You think we don't ask? We ask these people every week. They say no. It took eight years and a petition to get Obama on. And these are people, all people I voted for. Think about that. They're afraid to come on the show of a guy who voted for them. The Republicans, they show up and when they do, they take their beating like a man. You went down to Mar a Lago and kissed his ass after that. Oh, bullshit. When the Mueller report came out, I feel like you mischaracterized it and I feel that was shady. But you campaigned for election deniers in 2022. This I do not forgive. The Republicans, including you, January 6th, etc. Are the ones who are no longer willing to play by the rules of democracy. Amendment 22. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice. And yet you keep talking about Trump's. Maybe you should have this. I would love to to have AOC on the show and Mondame and Elizabeth Warren, but I can't subpoena the guests and I can't fix that. What the Democrats are scared of more than anything else, I mean obviously besides gluten is being primaried from the far left. Even though most Democrats are not far left. They're mild mannered and moderate. At least at my bathhouse. If there is one practical thing that Democrats can do right now that would help them regain power, it's Never speak to Trump in person. No, I'm kidding. That's stupid. No, it's this. Inspire your moderates to vote in the primaries. Get that base excited. You have the numbers. After Congressman Moulton made his comment about his daughter not getting run over, he added, but as a Democrat, I'm not supposed to be. I'm supposed to be afraid to say that will then change what you're supposed to be afraid of. All right, that's our show. I want to thank my guest, Walker Kern. Molly's Young, Fast and Thomas Jonathan Williams Club Random Drops Every Monday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
- [59:39]
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10. Or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.