Ep. #705: Steven Pinker, Kaitlan Collins, Stephen Moore

Summary

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Real Time with Bill Maher – Episode #705 Summary

Date: September 6, 2025
Panelists: Steven Pinker, Kaitlan Collins, Stephen Moore
Host: Bill Maher

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Episode Overview

This episode of Real Time with Bill Maher brought together Harvard cognitive scientist and author Steven Pinker, CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and Trump economic adviser Stephen Moore. The conversation spanned global politics, economic anxiety, group psychology, higher education, Trump-era policy changes, and skepticism toward mainstream institutions. The tone was classic Maher: irreverent, satirical, but always aiming for thoughtful critique on America’s political and cultural trajectory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jobs Report, War Department, and The State of America

(00:50–08:30)

• Maher and Collins riffed on the discouraging new jobs report (“22,000 jobs. Diddy hired more than that for a party.” — Bill Maher, 01:53), the rebranding of the Department of Defense to the Department of War in the Trump era, and the increasingly aggressive U.S. foreign policy.
• The conversation lampooned America’s ongoing international antagonisms:
  • Homeland Security raid on a Hyundai plant (“If anyone wants to build foreign cars, dammit, they should be Americans.” — Maher, 02:27)
  • “We are at war with so many people, we're changing the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War.” — Maher (02:50)
• Venezuela’s “pleasure boat” bombing incident was highlighted as emblematic of an America flexing military power with questionable motives.

2. International Authoritarian Summit & Common Knowledge

(05:51–08:59, 08:59–10:15)

• Satirized the high-profile summit in China attended by Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, Putin, and Iran’s president. Maher called it “every bad guy in the world together. They've never been in the same room together… Anyone who has ever fed a journalist to a tiger was in this room.” (05:13)
• Transitioned to an interview with Steven Pinker, introducing his concept of “progressophobia” and the central thesis of his new book: the pivotal role of common knowledge in society's coordination.

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In-Depth Interview: Steven Pinker on Progress, Common Knowledge, and the Emperor’s New Clothes

(08:59–19:37)

Progress and the State of the World

• Pinker pushed back on doom-and-gloom narratives, citing mixed but overall positive long-term human progress:
  • “World’s gotten a bit less democratic … but for life expectancy, education, extreme poverty we’re at world levels… it’s a mixed picture.” (Pinker, 09:21)
  • “Putting all things together, yes, now is the best time to be alive.” (Pinker, 10:00)
• On anti-Semitism at Harvard and the controversy around cutting federal funding:
  • “Harvard’s anti-Semitic? Three out of our last four presidents who served longer than a year were Jewish … The chairman of the board is Jewish. 40% of our university professors at the top rank are Jewish—hardly an anti-Semitic institution.” (Pinker, 10:47)
  • Acknowledged Harvard’s missteps in responding to campus activism but criticized Trump for overreach: “The way he tried to fix it is illegal and violates the First Amendment.” (Pinker, 13:38)

The Power of Common Knowledge

• Explained “when everyone knows that everyone knows” as the key to societal coordination (currency, social norms, etc.):
  • “I accept a green piece of paper…because I know other people will accept it… The crucial thing is not just belief…but that everyone knows that everyone else knows—and so on ad infinitum.” (Pinker, 14:36)
• Used the “Emperor’s New Clothes” and Joe Biden post-debate cognition as modern parables:
  • “When the kid blurted it out, he wasn’t telling anyone anything they didn’t already know… But now, everyone knew that everyone else knew… and could change their relationship with the Emperor.” (Pinker, 15:35)
  • On Biden: “A majority thought he was cognitively impaired before the debate. The difference… now it’s common knowledge. That was the end.” (Pinker, 16:32)

Trump’s Rule-Breaking and The End of Old Norms

• Trump seen as an iconoclast whose survival after breaking taboos obliterates those taboos:
  • “He discovered if you flout that in public and live another day, then the norm is gone.” (Pinker, 17:34)
  • Maher called Trump’s style “contagious confidence” that makes bullshit persuasive. (18:11)
  • Pinker: Trump “removes statements from the realm of things you can fact-check … the charismatic leader says it, that’s good enough.”

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Panel: Economic Anxiety & Trump’s Economic Policy

(20:00–29:07)

Mixed Signals in the U.S. Economy

• Moore argued the economy is fundamentally strong (“I’m very super bullish… more oil and gas than ever before… low inflation… record stock market.” — Moore, 22:13), while Maher pointed to negative jobs data and manufacturing contraction.
• Debra and Collins noted contradictions in White House statements, especially Trump’s practice of blaming “deep state” when numbers went south, regardless of who’s in charge.

Tariffs, Trade, and U.S. Alliances

• Moore, a self-proclaimed free trader, said Trump uses “the threat of tariffs to get some of these countries to give America a fair deal” (23:33).
• Maher and Collins highlighted the diplomatic cost: alienating India (“The last thing we would want to do is get India on their side.” — Maher, 26:17), as well as Brazil, due to inconsistent or punitive tariff application—sometimes justified by Trump with “because I can.” (Debra, 26:59)
• Moore admitted discomfort with tariffs but supported leverage to lower foreign barriers; Maher worried the result is global antagonism.

The “I Can” Approach & Business-State Relations

• Trump’s transactional philosophy: “That’s the way he does all his business… I think the U.S. should be given 10% of Intel.” (Maher, 27:37)
• Moore objected to government “rewarding losers” with subsidies, calling for “separation of business and state.” (28:23)

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Technology Titans, Government, and Power

(30:46–34:11)

• Discussed Trump’s “major tech dinner” with Silicon Valley CEOs (“Every major motherfucker in tech…” — Maher, 31:04).
• The panel noted the overly sycophantic tone (“We’re so grateful for your leadership…” — multiple tech CEOs, 32:06–32:15), prompting Maher to joke about the “right amount of ass kissing.”
• Debra: “All those people at the table could suffer… [Trump] will use the power of his office to go after people… that don’t suit him.” (Debra, 33:10)
• Moore touted U.S. tech dominance as the backbone of the current economy.

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RFK, the CDC, and the Perils of Medical Dogma

(37:58–46:26)

• Maher was disappointed in RFK’s conspiratorial bent but sympathetic to skepticism about “orthodox Western medicine.”
  • “Finally, we have a guy [RFK] in there who cares about this stuff, but he’s also just nutty.” (Maher, 39:36)
• Moore credited “Operation Warp Speed” and vaccines for saving lives but objected to mandates: “The reason there’s been a backlash is because the government was forcing people to take vaccines.” (Moore, 40:34)
• The panel debated the link between Tylenol and autism (RFK's latest claim), the FDA’s slowness to approve experimental drugs, and the wisdom (or danger) of medicating children (“We put kids on drugs way too early, way too often, and then we wonder why they’re on street drugs when they're 20.” — Maher, 45:53).

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Federal Power, the Fed, and Trump’s Push for Control

(46:15–49:35)

• Maher noted a rash of federal judges blocking Trump administration overreach: “Federal judges ruled tariffs are illegal… National Guard being sent to LA, illegal, wartime powers to deport Venezuelans, illegal, ousting a Fed member, illegal.”
• Debate over Fed independence:
  • Moore: “I definitely believe in an independent Fed, but I also believe that the Fed should be accountable.” (47:20)
  • Maher: “No, they don’t [need to be accountable to the President]. That’s like saying the Supreme Court has to be accountable. Sorry, that’s where the buck stops.” (47:43)
• On a Trump effort to oust a Fed Board member for alleged mortgage fraud, both panelists disagreed over the seriousness and motives.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

On Progress and Human Knowledge:

• “Progress is not a magical force that makes everything better… it’s a mixed picture. And that’s the way progress works.” — Steven Pinker (09:21)
• “Would you rather not be alive now than at any other time?” — Bill Maher
  “Putting all things together, yes.” — Steven Pinker (10:00)

On Common Knowledge:

• “[The Emperor’s New Clothes] is a story about common knowledge… and what that allowed them to do is change their relationship with the emperor from obsequious deference to ridicule and scorn.” — Steven Pinker (15:35)

On Trump’s Norm-Smashing:

• “[Trump] discovered if you flout [a norm] in public and you live another day, then the norm is gone. Because the norm depended on everyone knowing it was a norm. Then when he exploded it, it was gone.” — Steven Pinker (17:34)
• “Trump has what I call contagious confidence.” — Bill Maher (18:11)

On Sycophancy in Tech:

• “When it comes to ass-kissing… not enough B, the right amount, or too much?” — Bill Maher, after playing tech CEO praise montage (32:37)
• “All those people at the table could, could suffer as a result of [defiance]…” — Debra (33:10)

On RFK and Medical Dogma:

• “I’m certainly not against vaccines… but nothing ever stops in the middle… It’s just, he’s got to go.” — Bill Maher (39:36)

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New Rules Segment – Satirical Takes

(49:55–54:00)

• Mocked the Cracker Barrel man as the new GOP logo.
• Lampooned the dynamic at film festivals: “The people in the audience worked on the movie.” (50:38)
• Riffed on the “Daddy” T-shirt trend among MAGA fans (“Trump is the daddy…”).

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Closing Rant: Militarizing American Streets

(53:10–61:15)

• Maher sounded the alarm about Trump’s move to use the military for civilian policing (specifically in D.C.):
  • “The new normal is troops in the streets — the exact thing we’ve never done here except for true emergencies… Once it’s normal to have an army loyal to you already in the streets, game over. That is how all future political disputes will be decided. Folks, it's not worth the trade off.” (54:00)
• Warned of the “pretext” playbook in autocracy, using outlier crime to justify erosion of civil norms.
• Called out both left (“too much of the left that cops were the enemy, all racist thugs…”) and right (“Why is your boy disrespecting you so much now? Telling you… we need to bring in someone better than you…”) for mishandling the policing debate.
• Memorable zinger:
  “This is more like cuck the police.” — Maher (61:12)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:50–08:30 – Jobs, War Department, Venezuela incident, international affairs
• 08:59–19:37 – Steven Pinker on progress, common knowledge, norms, Harvard/Trump
• 20:00–29:07 – Economic anxiety, jobs numbers, tariffs, India, business-government boundaries
• 30:46–34:11 – Tech titans, sycophancy, U.S. economic drivers
• 37:58–46:26 – RFK, CDC, vaccines, pharmaceutical skepticism
• 46:15–49:35 – Federal judges, Trump v. the Fed, independence of institutions
• 49:55–54:00 – New Rules comedic segment
• 53:10–61:15 – Closing rant on militarization of police, threats to democracy

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Final Thoughts

The episode delivered the trademark Real Time blend: sharp satire, earnest debate, and deep dives into the psychology and politics currently shaping America. Whether skewering Trump’s norm-breaking braggadocio, exposing the limits of elite university dogma, or warning against creeping autocracy, Maher and his panelists illuminated the tension between American progress and fragility, pointing viewers to the indispensable value of open inquiry — and the danger of confusing confidence with competence.

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Bill Maher]

Start the clock.

[Caitlin Collins]

Thank you. Thank you, people. How you doing? Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Hey, welcome to the show. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. That's a wonderful reception for. Thank you. I'm humbled. Okay. All right. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. I'm glad you're putting on a brave.

[Bill Maher]

Face because I'm going to be honest, it's not all good news. There's a new jobs report. Oh, 22,000 jobs. 22,000. Diddy hired more than that for a party in the whole country.

[Caitlin Collins]

And now.

[Bill Maher]

Now everyone now is worried about their job, especially the guy who wrote the report.

[Caitlin Collins]

Cause you know, we don't fuck around with that anymore. Oh, yeah. Oh, but what's in.

[Bill Maher]

I know where there are some jobs openings. Cuz. Homeland Security yesterday raided the Hyundai plant in Georgia. Arrested 500, I guess, illegals, mostly South Koreans. Because, hey, if anyone wants to build foreign cars, dammit, they should be Americans.

[Caitlin Collins]

What are Koreans doing making Korean cars?

[Bill Maher]

Oh, oh, we are at war with a lot of people. We are. We're at war with so many people. We're changing the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War.

[Caitlin Collins]

I'm not making that up, Trump. We have been.

[Bill Maher]

It was originally called the Department of War under George Washington. Yeah, and then at some point we headed to the Department of Defense, so it doesn't look like, hey, we're looking for one.

[Caitlin Collins]

Trump.

[Bill Maher]

Going back to the Department of War. He said it sends a message that we are fierce warriors. And then he went back to his Twitter spat with Rosie o'. Donnell.

[Caitlin Collins]

But.

[Bill Maher]

On the fierce warrior front, we did blow up a pleasure boat in Venezuela. Okay, well, we don't know if it looked like a pleasure boat to me, but we don't know. It was off Venezuela. They said it was involved in the drug trade.

[Caitlin Collins]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

There are countries in the region that are involved in the drug trade. I mean, Mexico, obviously. Colombia. I seem to remember people calling cocaine Peruvian marching powder. Okay, so, but Venezuela, not one of them. But Venezuela is our only true rival in the Miss Universe contest.

[Caitlin Collins]

That is the truth. No, I'm not making this up.

[Bill Maher]

We've won it eight times, they've won it seven times. This is something I think the President is very interested in. This is why he hates Venezuela so much. They stole our pageant secrets. Like. Like, just how do you make a 19 year old look like she's 40?

[Caitlin Collins]

That would be my first question.

[Bill Maher]

Anyway, while we were blowing up the motorboat there off Venezuela, first warriors, China had scariest ever seen in the world. And don't ever say that Trump is not a uniter, because somehow he got every bad guy in the world together. They've never been in the same room together. Kim Jong Un of North Korea came out. He never comes out. He was there. The President of Iran, Xi, Putin, anyone who has ever fed a journalist to a tiger was in this room.

[Caitlin Collins]

This is quite an achievement. Seriously.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, Kim Jong Un never leaves the house, and now he's so confident, so secure, that he made it a take your daughter to work day. He brings his kid along, who apparently grooming for the top spot there in North Korea. And you know, they've never revealed her name, her age. All we know about her is she hates being called a Nepo. Baby.

[Caitlin Collins]

Just don't do that. But.

[Bill Maher]

Here'S the interesting thing about this summit. There was a hot mic incident. You know, hot mic incidents where they catch people saying something on the microphone. And it was Putin and Xi talking about how with organ transplants nowadays, maybe they can live forever. Seriously. I mean, usually when you get a hot mic thing, it's the guys calling.

[Caitlin Collins]

Somebody an asshole or talking about pussy.

[Bill Maher]

No, these guys are talking about organ harvesting. And then India was there too. The one who we've been trying to get on our side and should be on our side. And Trump tweeted out, it looks like we've lost India and Russia to deepest, darkest China. What do you mean we, white man.

[Caitlin Collins]

We. I love when he forgets he's the.

[Bill Maher]

President and just reacts to everything on the world stage. Like, ooh, look what happened. So to recap, China had the scariest military parade ever. And America is changing our stationery. Yeah, we, the Department of Defense is now the Department of War. Oh, also the Justice Department will now be the Bureau of Revenge. The State Department is now just Marco Rubio at aol. And the Centers for Disease Control is now just disease.

[Caitlin Collins]

Oh, yeah. Did you.

[Bill Maher]

The knives are out for Bobby Kennedy. And I gotta say, I'm with the knives.

[Caitlin Collins]

I tried, but. You know what? We're gonna talk about it.

[Bill Maher]

But I mean, he was grilled for three hours. Show some of the tape. It was pretty hard to watch.

[Debra]

You're a charlatan. That's what you are.

[Caitlin Collins]

You're just making stuff up. You're talking gibberish.

[Steve Moore]

Mr. Secretary, I don't know what you're talk about.

[Caitlin Collins]

Is this a question, Senator Cassidy, or is this a speech that you don't want me to ask? How can you be that ignorant, Senator.

[Bill Maher]

Catwell, I think you're wrong. You are a hazard to the health of the American people. Poor Bobby. He g. He talked so long, he gained his voice.

[Caitlin Collins]

All right, we got a great show. We have Steve Moore and Caitlyn Collins. But first up, he's a professor and author whose latest book is called When Everyone Knows that Everyone Knows Common Knowledge and the Mysteries of Money Power. And every. Steven Pinker is here, the great intellectual. Mr. Pinker. Professor, how are you? You look very happy. I'm so glad to see. Okay, look at you.

[Bill Maher]

And you should be happy. You're the guy who I always quote about progressophobia. That's your line. That's your word. It is the word that means that people, especially the liberals, don't acknowledge the progress we've made as much. You always straighten us out as to when you think the world is falling off the edge of a cliff. Here's what's really going on. Are you still that optimistic?

[Steven Pinker]

Well, progress is not a magical force that makes everything better all the time. I mean, that would be a miracle. And things sometimes do get worse. War deaths have gotten worse. It's taken us back to the level of the 1990s. The world's gotten a bit less democratic than it was. We're still better off than we were during the 20th century and anytime in the 20th century. And for other measures, like life expectancy at birth level of education, extreme poverty after the dip during COVID we're now at world levels. So it's a mixed picture. And that's the way progress.

[Bill Maher]

But is it still the best time to be alive throughout all of human history? Would you rather now not be alive.

[Steven Pinker]

Now than at any other time putting all things together? Yes.

[Bill Maher]

What about 1982? That was such a good year.

[Caitlin Collins]

What I'm just for me, I don't know. All right.

[Bill Maher]

So you're at Harvard. Trump's had you, the university in his sights. Where are you with that? There was a ruling just this week. Trump had a lot of reversals in federal courts. Maybe this is the way that people will be able to stop some of the things they don't like that he's doing. The ruling was that Trump can't freeze some of the money that he took away from Harvard because, be honest, their anti Semitism is going. You laugh. Is that not true?

[Steven Pinker]

Well, three out of our last four presidents who served longer than a year were Jewish. Three out of our last three provosts were Jewish. The chairman of the board is Jewish. 40% of our university professors at the top rank are Jewishly an anti Semitic institution.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I've also seen a lot of Jews lately who, you know, are not really for Israel.

[Steven Pinker]

Well, that is true.

[Bill Maher]

That's a new thing.

[Steven Pinker]

But, you know, but the university is committed to academic freedom. People can say what they want, just as they can under the First Amendment. And so there are going to be people who are going to say obnoxious things, and the university can't fire them for that. Now, I think Harvard has messed up in a number of ways and not in the interest of Jewish students, such as being very confused about protests that cross the line from just expression of opinion to disruption and intimidation. They were slow in coming up with a coherent policy. There are some centers at Harvard that haveHarvard has about 400 centers completely separate from their departments. Some of them were taken over by activists and became kind of centers for anti Israel studies, so to speak. There have been mess ups that were documented in the anti Semitism report. But nonetheless, the Trump administration broke the law in just cutting off funding for everything, including cancer research, robotics research, energy research, without stipulating exactly which regulations Harvard broke and without giving Harvard a chance to reply.

[Bill Maher]

But Harvard's endowment is over 50 billion, right? They couldn't dip into that.

[Steven Pinker]

No, no, no. Well, they can. They have to kind of tide some researchers over. But 80% of it is earmarked for specific things like scholarships, like endowed professorships. And also the math doesn't work. Given the scale of Harvard's research, it would be eating its seed corn and it would spiral downward if it did that.

[Bill Maher]

That sounds like bullshit.

[Caitlin Collins]

I mean, you have a pile of $50 billion.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, but I'm not saying what. What Trump did was right. I mean, it has nothing to do with what he was going after. But we'll leave that aside. But it's not like he didn't have a point about what colleges have become. Am I wrong about that? I read some study that said only 2% of people the professors at Harvard work call themselves conservative. That's not for people who always talking about how great diversity is. There's not a lot of diversity of opinion. Isn't that a problem at elite universities? It's a little incestuous.

[Steven Pinker]

Oh, and I've been among the first to point that out. I've been a pretty strong critic of Harvard. I co founded the Council on Academic Freedom at Harvard to push back on these things. But nonetheless, the Constitution doesn't authorize Donald Trump to fix that problem.

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Caitlin Collins]

Correct.

[Steven Pinker]

I don't trust him to fix that.

[Bill Maher]

I don't either.

[Steven Pinker]

And the way he tried to fix it is illegal and violates the First Amendment.

[Steve Moore]

So he lost in court.

[Caitlin Collins]

Let's get to the subject of your book.

[Steven Pinker]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Collins]

Okay. Your book is.

[Bill Maher]

I loved it because I felt like it continued on from a book that I really love, which is Sapiens by our friend Yuval Harari. It's about. They're both a lot about belief. You know, he went into the idea that many of the things we do as Homo sapiens, we're the only species that does it because we have beliefs. You can only get like 100 apes to act cooperatively, but you can get a million people or more to march with a cross because they all believe that Christ is God or Muhammad or whatever. We believe in money. We believe in crypto.

[Steven Pinker]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

We believe in invisible things. And you go into, I think, what is the tipping point of that when. What's the phrase of the book? When everyone knows that everyone knows. Okay, so explain what that means.

[Steven Pinker]

Yes. So when everyone knows that everyone knows. When I know something, you know it. I know that you know it, you know that I know it ad infinitum. That's called common knowledge. And it is a prerequisite to coordination for people being on the same page. Money being an example. Why do I accept a green piece of paper in exchange for something of value? Because I know other people will accept it. Why do they accept it? Because they know that still other people will accept it. What's crucial is not so much belief. And I agree with Harari that social constructions, things that exist because people think they exist, are crucial for human interaction. But the crucial thing is you can't just believe in them because if you're the only one, then it doesn't exist. What makes it exist? Is you believe that everyone else believes that everyone else believes that everyone else believes something. That's what allows it to become its own reality.

[Bill Maher]

When the kid says the emperor has no clothes, suddenly everybody who kind of was thinking that now. Because it was said out loud.

[Steven Pinker]

Well, yes. And the story of the emperor's new clothes is a story about common knowledge, because when the kid blurted it out, he actually wasn't telling anyone anything they didn't already know. They could see the emperor was naked, but he still changed their knowledge because by blurting it out within earshot of the others, now, everyone knew that everyone else knew that everyone else knew that everyone else knew. And what that allowed them to do is change their relationship with the emperor from obsequious deference to ridicule and scorn. And the thing about common knowledge in this social realm is that it's what props up our social relationships. And so when something is blurted out, then it can change everything, changes the nature of your relationship with someone.

[Bill Maher]

And we do have sort of a modern version of the emperor parable, which is Joe Biden. I mean, he was the emperor who everyone wouldn't say had lost his marbles. I mean, is that not really the same story?

[Steven Pinker]

It is the same story story, because opinion polls showed that after that disastrous debate with Trump, the number of people who thought that he was cognitively impaired didn't go up by that much. Went up by a few percentage points. But before it, a majority of people thought that he was cognitively impaired. The difference is when it's on TV where you're watching it, you know that the rest of the country is watching it, you know the rest of the country knows the rest of the country, then you can't. It's no longer private. It's common. And that's when he was challenged. That was the end.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, so I agree. That happened. We all saw that debate, and everybody changed their mind. Why didn't it happen when Trump debated a few weeks later and was ranting about the reading the dogs, reading the cats?

[Caitlin Collins]

Because I thought that was the moment.

[Bill Maher]

When everyone was going to go, oh, wow, this. This guy really is off it. But nothing.

[Steven Pinker]

Trump has rewritten a lot of the rules.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, because there are a lot of. Yes, Literally.

[Caitlin Collins]

Yeah.

[Steven Pinker]

And figuratively, because there are a lot of norms on just what politicians can do, can say that they're not enforced by law. There's no law that says you can't insult the physical appearance of your rival or of a woman. You can't blatantly lie. They're propped up by the knowledge that you just don't do that. Why don't you do it? Well, everyone knows you don't do that. What he discovered was if you flout that in public and you live another day, then the norm is gone. Because the norm depended on everyone knowing that it was a norm. Then when he exploded it, it was gone.

[Bill Maher]

Don't you think it has something to do also with the confidence with which you back up your bullshit? I mean, he. We're gonna talk about the economy on the panel. I think he has for the economy. I don't see good things on the horizon. Steve will just obviously argue with me about that. But Trump has what I call contagious confidence. He is so bullish and so competent. Everybody. Well, he must know what he's doing, you know, and at some point, I think it falls away. But with the dogs and the cats thing, I think people, when we first heard it, we were like, come on, man, they're eating the dogs. We know they're not eating the dogs. And yet he said it with such confidence that you can get by.

[Steven Pinker]

Yes. And he. Well, and above that, he. Even for people who knew that this was nonsense in the past, it was. If you blatantly lie, you've killed your credibility forever. You've at least got to pretend that you yourself think that you're telling the truth. It's not clear that he actually believed it. But just by making the truth, whatever he says and removing statements from the realm of things that you can fact check, you can verify. Just if the charismatic leader says it, that's good enough. That is a new norm that he established by getting away with what no previous politician, including conservative politicians, would dare.

[Bill Maher]

All right, well, we'll follow up on that right now.

[Caitlin Collins]

Great to see you, Professor. It's a fascinating book. Congratulations on it. And let's meet our panel. Thank you very much. Okay. Hey. All right. There they are. He is Trump's. That's President Trump to you. Former.

[Bill Maher]

Trump. Economic miracle and the plan to unleash prosperity again, Steve Moore.

[Caitlin Collins]

Steve, it's been a while. Good to see you again. And she is CNN's chief White House.

[Bill Maher]

Correspondent and anchor of the Source with Caitlyn Collins airing weeknights at 9. Caitlyn Collins is here with us on the panel.

[Caitlin Collins]

All right.

[Bill Maher]

So, Steve, it's been too long. We used to remember. You were on the old show a lot.

[Steve Moore]

You become almost a conservative all of a sudden.

[Caitlin Collins]

I have not.

[Bill Maher]

I. I have not.

[Caitlin Collins]

That.

[Bill Maher]

That is a misreading by Stup.

[Caitlin Collins]

Well, I do find myself agreeing with you.

[Steve Moore]

A lot more than I used to.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Because there's so many woke assholes on the other side that for me to.

[Caitlin Collins]

Be in the same. Anyway, we'll get to that.

[Bill Maher]

So the economy is much on people's minds because the numbers are bad, or are they? That's the thing. We don't know what's the truth anymore. Now, last month the Bureau of Labor Statistics person came out with a bad jobs report and Trump fired her. Right. Okay. Then you went to the White House. I think we have a picture of you.

[Debra]

I was there, actually.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, you were there.

[Debra]

I was standing right in the room with Steve.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. And Trump saw that you were saying he had good numbers and shockingly, he liked that and invited you in to show your chart.

[Debra]

And can I tell you, we had like 10 minute heads up when that happened. We were not, we didn't know we were going to the Oval that day and they abruptly scrambled us in and then we weren't getting. Well.

[Bill Maher]

Trump didn't know he was going to do it.

[Caitlin Collins]

He just. No, he didn't.

[Bill Maher]

So now there's a new guy there, a new head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, E.J. antoni. He's 37, went to a community college.

[Steve Moore]

Well, he's not in yet. He's been appointed, but he's not. He has not.

[Bill Maher]

But I think the new job numbers are even worse. Is this his numbers? 22,000. So the new guy, his numbers now no good too?

[Steve Moore]

Well, the new guy isn't in yet.

[Bill Maher]

Whose numbers are these? That we.

[Steve Moore]

The bureaucracy.

[Bill Maher]

But look, the deep state.

[Steve Moore]

The deep state.

[Caitlin Collins]

Yeah. So, I mean, it was, it was.

[Steve Moore]

A poor report, no question about it. But you know, so many of the other signs of the economy, I actually think the economy strong. I'm very super bullish. I mean, we were producing more oil and gas than ever before. We've got pretty low inflation, We've got finally control of the border. We've got a record stock market. I mean, these are all pretty strong indicators. The economy's had a. In the right direction.

[Debra]

This is exactly what we said when he fired Dr. Erica McIntyre, who was heading the BLS, which is that they said the numbers were rigged, that it was the result of deep state. And they weren't, they weren't doing the numbers properly. Of course, now they come out today and they're just as bad, which shows that the numbers actually are an indication of where the economy is and where it could be going.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, there's fewer job openings than there are job seekers. That hasn't happened in five years. US Manufacturing contracted and thought we were doing the tariffs to have the opposite effect. For the sixth straight month. Some people said it's going to be worse than the Great Recession. The big beautiful bill is going to add 3.4 trillion they say. I don't know if that's bullshit to you, but that's what some of this stuff as I remember from you would make me think, that you should be one of the biggest anti Trumpers ever. I mean, weren't you always again, the debt and running up numbers and this kind of stuff. What do you say about that?

[Steve Moore]

Well, look, I am a free trader. Every time I see Donald Trump he says there Steve Moore, he doesn't like my terrorists. And look, I'm not a big fan of his terrorists but I will say this and I look, I've heard you say on this show that some of these trade deals, Trump has used the threat of tariffs to get some of these countries to give America a fair deal and to level out the playing field. And I'm all for that. I mean he's got a deal now with China. He's got to deal with the Europeans, he's got to deal with Canada. They're going to bring money into the United States that's going to create jobs for Americans. I mean, what's wrong with that?

[Bill Maher]

Nothing, except that he's alienated all of our allies and he's also alienated.

[Caitlin Collins]

I mean the biggest thing that's wrong.

[Bill Maher]

With that is that he turned India. India was supposed to be the counterweight to China. China is not our friend. Okay, for sure. But there's only two countries with a billion plus people and the other one was India and they were on our side and suddenly we've got 50. He just turned around. I remember him holding hands with Modi. Holding hands, right. Well that's jeech. Holding hands with Modi. Yeah. Now Modi's holding hands with the other guy.

[Debra]

But this is a question we've asked his trade people who are in there now, including Peter Navarro, that, you know, Steve, which is they're sanctioning India because of their buying and importing Russian oil. China is doing way more than that and they have not been tariffed for, for bringing in Russian oil. And they're bringing in way more than India is. And I think that is why Modi and the Indians have had such a falling out with the White House over that discrepancy. They're being punished for something that someone else is Also doing. Who's not being punished for that?

[Steve Moore]

There's no question China is the new evil empire. There's no question about it. I think Trump's strategy is to try to unify the world against China and to isolate them, but he's not.

[Bill Maher]

He's doing the opposite. He's uniting them against us.

[Caitlin Collins]

What we're leaving out of this is.

[Steve Moore]

That these countries have been taking advantage of the United States. Why is it that our tariffs have been so much lower than theirs? What's wrong with telling these countries, you better bring your tariffs down? For our farmers, for our manufacturing workers, for our technology companies, it's working out.

[Bill Maher]

Well, that may be true, that we had been taken advantage to a degree. That is true. I mean, he's not the first one to say that about China. I remember when he said, they're motherfuckers.

[Caitlin Collins]

That was always.

[Bill Maher]

Suddenly, I thought it would be a big scandal. They're like, well, no, they kind of are. They do some really bad things. But again, we need a counterweight to China because they are the other superpower of the world. So the last thing we would want to do is get India on their side.

[Steve Moore]

I agree.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, we had this meeting. We saw it. I mean, they've never had these four guys in a room at the same time. Remarkable, right? Xi, Putin, Kim Jong Un, and the President of Iran. This is Batman and the Joker.

[Caitlin Collins]

I mean, the Joker and the River. I don't know. Comic books, It's. No, no. Dr. Doom. Whoever the fucking bad guys are, they're all ganging up on us.

[Bill Maher]

This is a terrible. This is not whatever the tariffs were going to bring us, this is not worth it. And Brazil, by the way, why Brazil? Another one we needed on our side. And I assume that's because his boyfriend Bolsonaro is under. What else? Why other.

[Debra]

You know, I asked him about this because whenever he put the tariffs on Brazil, you know, the argument had been, any country, there's a trade deficit with us, a massive one that is taking advantage of us, we're going to do this to punish them. And one day he came out for. For Chopper Talk, as it is, before he gets on Marine One, right? And I said, why are you putting tariffs on. On Brazil? They have a massive surplus with us. You know, what's your reasoning? And he said, because I can. That was truly his argument.

[Steve Moore]

Oh, well, look, if you don't like tariffs and I don't like tariffs, and you can get other countries to lower them by using American leverage, I think that's a Good thing. And I think most Americans would agree with that.

[Bill Maher]

You know, the I can thing.

[Steve Moore]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

That's the way he does all his business. I mean, here's his quote about Intel. I said, you know what? I think the United States should be given 10% of intel. Now it sounds like I'm paraphrasing him. No, that's the exact quote. You know what? I think the United States should be given 10% of intel. Now it's interesting. This is an interesting issue because Bernie Sanders is with him on this.

[Steve Moore]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

It's debatable. I mean, Bernie Sanders said if microchip companies make a profit, blah, blah, blah, America should have a reasonable return on that investment. When Biden was president, they passed the CHIPS Act. They gave Intel.

[Steve Moore]

Exactly.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, let me finish. They gave intel money, just gave it to them, basically. And Trump is saying, no, America should get a peace. But, but Steve Moore, you're the guy who said, I hate this idea, right?

[Steve Moore]

I do. I hate. Look, you always talk about, on this show, separation of church and state. I believe in separation of business and state. I don't think. Right. We don't want businesses to be coming to Washington for all these types of papers. And so the point is we gave, we should have never given $10 billion to intel in the first place. I mean, they're a loser. And the stupid thing is Intel's losing money and then, you know, we're going to give them money. But Google's making money hand over foot and we're going to sue them. I mean, it just what we're doing in Washington is rewarding the losers instead of rewarding the winners.

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[Debra]

Debra had to have surgery.

[Announcer]

I had hip surgery in November of 2024.

[Bill Maher]

Her United Healthcare nurse, Crystal checked on her.

[Debra]

We do a routine call after surgery and I could tell that she was struggling. Deborah needed help.

[Bill Maher]

My infection markers were through the roof and Crystal knew what to do.

[Steve Moore]

I called the hospital and said she's.

[Bill Maher]

Coming in and got Debra the help she needed.

[Announcer]

Crystal and United Health Care saved my life. Life.

[Bill Maher]

Hear more stories like Deborah'[e-mail] benefits, features.

[Debra]

And or devices vary by plan, area.

[Bill Maher]

Limitation and exclusions apply. Well, speaking of winners and losers, he had a little dinner there. Was it yesterday? Was it last night?

[Steve Moore]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

Every talk about the riddler, the joker, every.

[Debra]

It was amazing to watch everyone's faces. The other person was talking and just.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, this is every major motherfucker who's in. Who's in the tech world. And let's be honest, that's how they.

[Debra]

Labeled it on the White House schedule.

[Caitlin Collins]

That was the Chiron. Every major motherfucker.

[Bill Maher]

And let's be honest, the reason why our economy has kicked ass so much is technology. We have the biggest tech companies in the world and we just have been dominating. And, and the reason why I think the economy is still up there is because I is. Is to what is us to now what like the dot com stuff was in the 90s. You know, Clinton wrote that. He's writing this Trump. I'll give him this. He's always lucky. And all the money's going into AI. All these guys. Sam Altman, that's ChatGPT, that's open air Zuckerberg, Tim Cook from Apple, Sunday Pichai from Google, Bill Gates, Nadella from Microsoft. Oh, everybody was there, Brin, all of them. And this is them sitting around and I want to show you a piece of tape and then we'll just ask the question, is this healthy?

[Steve Moore]

Very grateful for your administration support. We look forward to working together and thanks for your leadership.

[Debra]

We're so grateful for that support.

[Steve Moore]

Thank you for incredible leadership.

[Bill Maher]

It's incredible to be among everyone here, particularly you and the First Lady. I also want to thank you for helping American companies around the world and thank you for being such a pro business, pro innovation president when it comes to ass kissing.

[Caitlin Collins]

Is this, I was going to say.

[Bill Maher]

Kissing the ring, but Jade not enough B, the right amount of ass kissing or C, too much.

[Debra]

It's like one on a scale of one to cabinet level.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, come on.

[Steve Moore]

Man, all right, they bent over. Okay, I got it.

[Caitlin Collins]

But these are, I mean, you got a good credit.

[Steve Moore]

These are some of the greatest entrepreneurs and business builders. I mean, they're running trillion dollar companies, Bill. I mean, it's amazing.

[Bill Maher]

I know.

[Debra]

Also, I think it does.

[Bill Maher]

Why isn't he kissing their ass?

[Debra]

Well, because they need him and they realize that. And I think obviously what he has shown us over since taking office is that he will use the power of his office to go after people or universities that, that don't suit him or don't do what he believes they should be doing. And all those people at the table could, could suffer as a result of that. I mean, he was praising Google yesterday, last night at that dinner, his antitrust division of his doj, suing Google right now, fighting, which I thought was remarkable. He was, he was kind of applauding them for having a good day. But. But the DOJ is suing them right now.

[Steve Moore]

Well, Silicon Valley is. You, you said it very well, Bill. I mean, Silicon Valley is blowing away the rest of the world. We've dominated the Internet age and we've got to make sure we dominate the, you know, the robotics age, the age, the satellite age. Pretty soon there could be flying cars. I mean, we want to be first in outlet.

[Bill Maher]

They're never going to be flying.

[Caitlin Collins]

They've been saying that since I was in high school. I, I promise you they would have.

[Bill Maher]

Had them by now.

[Steve Moore]

It's going to be like the Jetsons, you know.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, well, let's get to the really important news. Taylor Swift got engaged. And I, I could not stop texting people. I'm kidding, of course. I, I can't believe what a loose to be important to somebody who you don't even know. But that's just me. But since then, everybody has been giving her advice on the marriage. Like some of the people who went. Charlie Kirk, who's the supremely conservative guy. I like Charlie, but I didn't realize these people, I mean, it's not just policy. They want a Christian with three E's. America.

[Debra]

I'm from Alabama.

[Steve Moore]

You can't make fun of me, Charlie.

[Debra]

I disabelle that for anybody else from Alabama.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, duly noted. But Charlie's advice to Taylor was submit to your husband. Taylor, you are not in charge. You got to change your name.

[Caitlin Collins]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

That's his honest advice. Josh Allen in the bill said, get a good wedding planner. That's pretty interesting advice. Oh, see your, your boardmate there, Scott Jennings at cnn said, my advice to Travis is that he has to remember that in this particular relationship, he's not the mvp, he's more like the kicker.

[Caitlin Collins]

We're never going to hear about you.

[Bill Maher]

Unless you mess something up.

[Caitlin Collins]

That's pretty good advice.

[Bill Maher]

But they are not the only celebrities. Would you like to hear what?

[Caitlin Collins]

Oh, I. A lot of other celebrities are weighing in with advice for Taylor Swift.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, Chris Christie said, never go to bed hangry.

[Caitlin Collins]

That's such good advice.

[Bill Maher]

Ghislaine Maxwell said, make sure you both want children.

[Caitlin Collins]

Really? Oh, loosen up.

[Bill Maher]

Madonna said, don't be afraid to bring new things into the bedroom.

[Caitlin Collins]

For example, a Puerto Rican backup dancer.

[Bill Maher]

Armie Hammer, said, surprise your wife by making her dinner.

[Caitlin Collins]

Also, sometimes you can cook for her. Angelina Jolie said, if you're looking to.

[Bill Maher]

Adopt a kid, I got a guy. Pete Hegser said, schedule a date night once a week.

[Caitlin Collins]

And also find time to see your wife.

[Bill Maher]

Kanye said, naked wife, happy life.

[Caitlin Collins]

Oh, nice.

[Bill Maher]

Arnold Schwarzenegger said, hire a really ugly cleaning lady.

[Caitlin Collins]

Joe Biden said, vote for Joe Biden. Oh, my God. And Lyle Menendez said, once you become.

[Bill Maher]

Parents, seriously, don't fuck that up.

[Caitlin Collins]

Okay, now, before we use up all.

[Bill Maher]

Our time talking about economics, maybe we'll have time to go back, I do want to talk about RFK a little, because that was one of the big stories this week. We saw a little bit of the tape there. It was quite an event. Yes. Today. Were you there for that one on Capitol Hill?

[Debra]

No, we were just watching from afar. But I was at part of his confirmation hearing, and I thought that was one of the craziest hearings I'd ever see. I mean, this was probably. I'm not. I'm not kidding. It was one of the most contentious of the year.

[Bill Maher]

Even people who were on. Supposedly on his side.

[Debra]

Republic. Yeah. I mean, that's just the party in the minority who's going after the person who's testifying. This was Republican and Democrats going after him. And he was. He was also pushing back on these Republicans like Bill Cassidy, who was instrumental in getting him confirmed to that job.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I personally find this very disappointing because I am the person who was sympathetic to what he was trying to do. A lot of people like me who didn't think that the orthodox way of Western medicine was not that we're against Western medicine or vaccines. I'm certainly not. But just like, there's another way to look at it. And a lot of stuff they were doing wasn't the right way. There was much too much about pills and surgery and not enough about preventive care. I mean, one of the first issues we ever did on my old show was called America Causes Cancer. That it is the toxicity, it's the environment. I said many times I never had a Western doctor who ever said to me what was wrong, what do you eat? That just never came up. I said, finally, we have a guy in there who cares about this stuff, but he's also just nutty.

[Caitlin Collins]

He's just too nutty. He just does not listen. I mean, he just is.

[Bill Maher]

And nothing ever. I call it pendulumism. Nothing ever stops in the middle. Okay, this needed a house, cleaning, the CDC. But to fire all 17 of the top people. Now you don't have that voice in there at all. You just have your voice. It's just, he's got to go. And it pains me to hurt it.

[Caitlin Collins]

Say it, because I like him.

[Steve Moore]

Well, I am personally very pro vaccine. Vaccines have saved millions and millions of lives. I was surprised so many of these Democrats were talking about how important vaccines are. I mean, the guy who saved millions of lives with vaccines was Donald Trump. When we did Operation Warp Speed. I mean, he should have probably won a Nobel Prize for that. That saved millions and millions of lives. And so you're right, he should have gotten. That is hugely important. But I also believe, Bill, that the reason there's been a bit of a backlash against vaccines is because the government was forcing people to take vaccines.

[Bill Maher]

Correct.

[Steve Moore]

And that is something I'm against.

[Bill Maher]

And also not putting any stock in natural immunity. Even if you had the disease, you still had to get the vaccine. And also giving it to two year olds who would never get outraged, would never outrage. So there was stuff to be done. I mean, again, let me put the broad picture out there. I had Andrew Huberman on two weeks ago here. I think a lot of people pay attention to him and they should about medicine. He's one of the smartest guys we have. And I asked them a question. I said the reason why some people come. So many people come against me on this is because I think they think that of all the things we could possibly know about medicine because we've advanced so much and how the body works, we probably know 90%. And I said, I think it's probably more like 20%. And Andrew said, I think we're at 10. Right, right. So if we're only at 10%, we don't know if this is the truth. But yes, everything should be looked at. But I mean, for Bobby Kennedy to say, as he did last month, by September, a couple, by September, we will know what is what has caused the autism epidemic? Well, it's September and you know, I was going to do a joke. Yeah. We found out it's the Cheetos. But showing you can parody reality. It's not the Cheetos, it's the Tylenol.

[Debra]

But can I say two things on that? One, I questioned him about the autism deadline. He actually pushed it back because anyone, I mean, this has been studied for decades and obviously there are a lot of parents and medical professionals who want to know what that is. And it's not something could just do in three months. But on the MRNA vaccines and Operation Ward speed, I mean, it was truly built on MRNA vaccines. It was an amazing technology that everyone watched happen in real time. And the production that was accelerated by the Trump administration. The CDC has canceled hundreds of millions of dollars in MRNA vaccine research. And so that is what the Republicans were putting to him saying, do you believe that Trump deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for this? And then do you also believe that that was an MRNA vaccine that saved lives? And that was where he said stumbled a lot in his questioning yesterday. That puts him at odds theoretically with his boss.

[Steve Moore]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So, you know, all the scuttlebutt on capital. What is going to happen here? Is he going to be able to survive?

[Debra]

Yeah, I think until the president loses confidence in him, he's fine. I mean, and the Republicans who were having giving him tough questions yesterday, I mean, they voted to confirm him. He is already in the job. He's about as safe as he can get unless the President decides to change his mind. And he's given no indication of that.

[Bill Maher]

So again, this is what, this is leaked. This is from the. We don't have his report yet, but this was in the Wall Street Journal. Apparently that pregnant woman's use of Tylenol is potentially linked to autism. There have been a couple of studies about this. Is it true? I don't know. It's not a case, in my view, where you can say that's just crazy. It might be crazy. Tylenol is not, you know, not some benign.

[Steve Moore]

We just took one before we came on the show.

[Debra]

Seriously, can I say that's a report that he is going to put out, a report that says that from the hhs. And obviously that's a very serious link to make that medical professionals that I have seen have not yet made. And so that is really the question here is that if you're going to put out something saying that this is the cause of autism, people want to know that it's backed up by science.

[Caitlin Collins]

Right? Sure.

[Bill Maher]

But we might not have that science because it's sometimes.

[Debra]

Then don't put out a report saying.

[Bill Maher]

I agree, but also don't tell me.

[Caitlin Collins]

That Tylenol is completely benign because people.

[Bill Maher]

Have died from too much Tylenol, too much acetaminophen. It's not a completely benign drug. It has a very serious effect. Let me defend. You can take too much of it.

[Steve Moore]

Let me defend RFK for a minute. One of the things that is really bad about American health care is we have a. The when new drugs are being developed, we should let these drugs go to the market, especially if they're dealing with cancer or heart disease or multiple sclerosis. The FDA holds these things up by five to 10 years and it's actually killing people. So why shouldn't we allow these drugs, let people try the drugs, use them to save lives.

[Caitlin Collins]

That's why we're not.

[Steve Moore]

But that's something that Kennedy wants to do.

[Debra]

Right. But that's. I think your point is that there are parts of his platform that a lot that have widespread consensus. And it's how a lot of Republicans, I think, got over the line to vote for him. And because of his popularity. That was not the center of the debate, though, yesterday. I know that's not what he was being grilled over by Republicans.

[Bill Maher]

No, but why should Americans, I've known Americans who had to go to Mexico.

[Steve Moore]

Yeah, Richard.

[Bill Maher]

To get stem cell. Why can't we do that? It's idiotic.

[Steve Moore]

I totally agree. People should have the right to try these things. The FDA holds them up. And you know, Milton Friedman used to say that agency kills people because if a new drug comes out and saves 50,000 lives, why'd you hold it up for 10 years?

[Bill Maher]

I mean, they went after him about antidepressants, kids taking antidepressants because he's made sweeping statements about that. Again, nothing happens right in the middle. But do any of us really think that putting kids on all these drugs when they're young doesn't have an effect?

[Caitlin Collins]

That isn't part of the problem with why there are school shootings and kids doing crazy things?

[Steve Moore]

Of course it is.

[Bill Maher]

I remember Arianna Huffington coming on our show the first year talking about Prozac. That was the issue that made her famous. She was right then. It's right now. We put kids on drugs way too early, way too often, and then we wonder why they're on drugs using street drugs when they're 20 because they never knew what sobriety was.

[Caitlin Collins]

They definitely would have put Me on.

[Steve Moore]

Ritalin, if they'd had Ritalin back then. Because I was bouncing off the walls, you know, and especially for boys, you know, those drugs, just, just sit there and stay strapped in your chair.

[Bill Maher]

You're still bouncing off the wall, Steve, and we're very glad to see it. So I mentioned to there at the beginning federal judge rulings. I mean, we talked about the one freezing of federal grants to Harvard, but this looks like a trend to me. This week federal judges ruled tariffs are illegal. His tariffs are illegal. They ruled that the National Guard being sent here to la. Illegal. Wartime powers to deport Venezuelans. Illegal ousting a member of the Fed. There's a good one, Steve, for you. Do you think the Fed should be neutral because he wants to take over the Fed? This has always been what. This has always been a case where we separated the two for good reason. We did not want the Fed to be influenced by passing phase political considerations.

[Steve Moore]

Yeah, well, look, I definitely believe in an independent Fed, but I also believe that the Fed should be accountable. And they haven't been very accountable. I mean, there are ones that let the prices go up by 21%. Not, you know, when Biden was president, wrecked America.

[Bill Maher]

But how do you. What do you mean accountable?

[Caitlin Collins]

They're appointed to. Yeah, but 14 year terms. If Trump can't get rid of the.

[Steve Moore]

Fed, then who can get rid of them? They have to be accountable to someone. Now, with respect to this woman.

[Bill Maher]

No, they don't. That's like saying the Supreme Court has to be accountable. They're not accountable. I'm sorry, that's where the buck stops.

[Caitlin Collins]

That's the problem.

[Steve Moore]

I mean that they were just, they're like a rogue agency that can do that. They're one of the most powerful agencies in government. They have control of our money supply and they're just flooding the economy with cheap money. With the respect to this.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no. He wants to do that. He wants them to cut interest rates. They're holding the line on that. He wants the cheap money.

[Steve Moore]

Well, look, my point.

[Bill Maher]

Other than that. Your point is. Well, I'll talk about this.

[Caitlin Collins]

I'm not necessarily in favor of that. But all I'm saying is with that.

[Steve Moore]

Jerome Powell is no saint, let's put it like that. But with respect to this woman.

[Debra]

But Trump picked Jerome Powell.

[Steve Moore]

He did. And every time I say he said I should never picked him. And I said, you're right, sir, he makes mistakes now and then. But look, this woman who is on the Federal Reserve, who Trump wants to get off The Federal Reserve Board. She is alleged to have committed mortgage fraud. Now, look, why do you go?

[Bill Maher]

Because it's like when the cop pulls you over because your tail light is out.

[Steven Pinker]

Come on.

[Bill Maher]

I mean.

[Caitlin Collins]

No, no. Mortgage fraud?

[Bill Maher]

Are you serious?

[Caitlin Collins]

Yes, I'm serious.

[Steve Moore]

This mortgage fraud is what caused the housing crisis. Millions of Americans committed mortgage fraud. Every study shows this is what caused the collapse of the American economy. This is a very serious thing. And she didn't do it just once.

[Caitlin Collins]

She did it on a number of occasions. Yes.

[Steve Moore]

To go.

[Debra]

It's not confirmed that she did it, though.

[Caitlin Collins]

Well, being a leg.

[Debra]

And the DOJ is investigating, this is.

[Steve Moore]

Actually one of the things people did. They were would claim that the residency was their principal.

[Debra]

Facebook hasn't been found guilty of anything.

[Steve Moore]

No, that is true. She has not been. She is innocent until proven guilty. But. Okay, you know, I got to tell you, I've talked to people in the Justice Department. They think they got her dead to rights.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sure.

[Caitlin Collins]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

Of course. Because the Justice Department is run by Trump stooges.

[Caitlin Collins]

Okay, we got to go to new rules. Thank you. You guys were very interesting. All right, let me get to it.

[Bill Maher]

New rule. Now that this guy is back on the Cracker barrel logo, let's also make him the new logo of the Republican Party. The elephant never really made sense, but an old white guy in overalls. Yes, that's the grand old party. I know. Oh, and the barrel, that would be perfect for the Democrats. It's wooden, it's splintered, and it's almost as old as Steny Hoyer.

[Caitlin Collins]

Nirul.

[Bill Maher]

Let's be honest about why movies at film festivals get 15 minute standing ovations. Because the people in the audience worked on the movie.

[Caitlin Collins]

Frankenstein brings Venice to life with monstrous 13 minute ovation.

[Bill Maher]

The rock sobs as the smashing machine gets 15 minute Venice ovation. We get it. Europe. You know how to clap.

[Caitlin Collins]

You know when Americans clap?

[Bill Maher]

When the Boeing. We're on land safely and we don't die.

[Caitlin Collins]

New rule.

[Bill Maher]

I have no issue with Bobby Kennedy and Pete Hegseth teaming up to issue a fitness challenge to the rest of America. But they must try to look less like Hans and Fran. This picture doesn't say let's make America fit. It says, we want to trump you up.

[Caitlin Collins]

New rule.

[Bill Maher]

After we congratulate Senator Cory Booker on his recent engagement, he has to explain why his engagement photos look like an ad for prescription drug. Because these pictures don't make me think.

[Caitlin Collins]

Great, now we can run for president.

[Bill Maher]

Without the stigma of being a bachelor. They make me think. Don't let moderate to severe ulcerative colitis.

[Caitlin Collins]

Stand in your way. Ask your doctor about xorloxia. New rule.

[Bill Maher]

If you're a MAGA man and you buy this new Trump Daddy T shirt, someone needs to explain gay culture to you. You see, Trump is the daddy. He gets to wear the Daddy T shirt. You, on the other hand, wear the T shirt that says Daddy's Boy.

[Caitlin Collins]

And finally, new rules.

[Bill Maher]

Someone has to ask copy. Why aren't you insulted that Donald Trump thinks so little of you that in city after city he's sending in military troops to do your job? Why doesn't that piss you off? So in case you took the summer off from following the news, and who could blame me if you did, America is now a country where first in LA, then in Washington D.C. and soon coming to a city near you. The new normal is troops in the streets. The exact thing we've never done here except for true emergencies and the thing we most don't want to become normal. So here's what happened. Remember Doge the Elon Musk helmed Department of Government Efficiency that brought in a teenage squad of tech geniuses to reduce the size of government and didn't even do that? Well, one of them, a 19 year old named Big Balls, got jumped in D.C. last month by some other teenagers. One a 15 year old girl. So Trump called out the National Guard because when Donald Trump was a little boy, someone forgot to teach him the difference between a policeman and an army man. But there is a difference. The Pentagon is not Paw Patrol and Seal Team 6 is not Adam 12. And we don't need to send in the Marines to pacify Shake Shack like. Like they say on Law and Order, the cops and the Navy are two separate but equally important groups. And if you don't believe me, ask the Village People. Trump says, I'm not a dictator. I just know how to stop crime. And I take him at his word because when has he ever told a lie? But I will say this. Page one of the dictator handbook is pretexts. You find a pretext to do what you want to do anyway. Say you want to invade another country. Well, you say that some people of your ethnicity living in that country are being persecuted. Voila. Reason to invade. But as pretexts go, big balls getting mugged, that takes some big balls. Now that's not to say crime in D.C. isn't an actual problem. It is the 36th most violent city in the country. Not as violent as Little Rock, Arkansas or Shreveport. The City represented by noted crime boss Mike Johnson.

[Caitlin Collins]

But.

[Bill Maher]

But D.C. has had 194 carjackings this year, most involving guns. That's not Mayberry. Poor Big Balls got carjacked on a date which shocked everyone.

[Caitlin Collins]

Not that he was carjacked, that he was on a date. Oh, you're way ahead of me. All right.

[Bill Maher]

Trump brags about the 87% decrease in carjackings in D.C. since the troops moved in. Yes, military states can reduce crime. Point conceded. Will militarizing our cities make them safer? Yes, but not safer for democracy. Once it's normal to have an army loyal to you already in the streets, game over. That is how all future political disputes will be decided. Folks, it's not worth the trade off. Everything in life is a trade off. You want to reduce traffic fatalities to zero, stop using cars. You want to eliminate drug overdoses, make the penalty for possession death, like they do in Saudi Arabia. But we're not the cut off his hands people. Qatar is a lovely place to get a free plane. I wouldn't want to live there. And not for nothing, when the teenagers were beating up Big Balls, it was plain old DC Cops who rolled up in a regular police car and arrested them in progress. So, yeah, the system needs improving. What system doesn't? But we're not at DEFCON 1. That's a pretext. And it's not like we don't already have a lot of cops. America has 750,000 sworn officers. 800,000 if you count the ones on TV. There's state cops, local cops, county cops, Sheriff's Department, the Highway Patrol, ICE, FBI, DEA, TSA, ATF, US Marshals, Border Patrol. Washington, D.C. alone has Metro Police, Capitol Police, Secret Service, Park Police, Protective Services, Police, Housing Police, police for the US Mint, Schools Police, Transit Police, Airport Police, and I Shit, you notice they even have a library police. You fuck with the Dewey decel system, your ass is dead. Or take my time. If you drive from Santa Monica to Burbank, you pass through the jurisdiction of six different police forces, which is stressful. If you live in Santa Monica and your coke dealer is in Burbank. Oh, we got cops. We got a lot of people with guns and a license to kill. And I'm not even saying we don't need most of them. Because this is a country that's a madhouse full of heavily armed, deranged, ranting crackpots and conspiracy theorists and just crazy motherfuckers. Civilization is a mile wide and an inch deep. We need our cops and should appreciate them. But I also. But I also, and I'm going to put this as kindly as I can, don't want the military picking up some of the bad habits cops have. I don't want the Marines eating donuts. I don't want the National Guard getting free blowjobs from street walkers. I don't want GI Joe getting the blue flu. Women should not have to worry about the 101st Airborne pulling them over for driving while pretty. I know the cops love Trump, and I know why. Unconditional love. Well, that's not the right approach. And neither was the attitude from too much of the left that cops were the enemy, all racist thugs who needed defunding. But I would ask every cop to ask yourself, why is your boy disrespecting you so much now? Telling you that we need to bring in someone better than you who can really get the job done. It's like, this is like getting your mom to beat up the school bully.

[Caitlin Collins]

Fuck the police.

[Bill Maher]

This is more like cuck the police.

[Caitlin Collins]

All right, that's our show. I want to thank Steve Moore, Caitlin Collins and Steven Pinker. Club Random drops Every Monday on YouTube. Or listen, whenever you get your podcast, they'll go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. You were great. Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Announcer]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com.