Ben Shapiro (4:24)

And.

Bill Maher (4:27)

Today they asked the President, what are you going to do to bring the country together? And he said, I know this is gonna get me in trouble, but I could care less. He's a different kind of cat. His message is, let the healing stop, okay? His message, not mine.

Ben Shapiro (4:47)

Don't fucking.

Bill Maher (4:49)

No. He had a rough week, and this shit has to stop, too. He went out to dinner. I wouldn't have done that in Washington, D.C. okay? And people started to gather around him, and they were chanting, you're the Hitler of our time. Okay, first of all, assholes, he's not Hitler, okay? An insult to everybody in the Holocaust to begin with. Second of all, calling somebody Hitler makes it a lot easier to justify things like assassination. Let's put a shitload of that away, shall we? And also, no, I'm not. I'm not saying he's popular. You know, he went out to dinner there in Washington, D.C. the kitchen had to send out for more spit.

Ben Shapiro (5:35)

But he's not Hitler.

Bill Maher (5:42)

And then to add to his bad week, the House Oversight Committee, they released a redacted copy of Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday book. He had a 50th birthday party. You know, people put together a book or people write in, and a lot of people wrote in this book, Bill Clinton's in there, Dershowitz, a lot of world leaders, a lot of titans of industry. I am not in the book. I did give a blurb for the COVID but that's. But there's an alleged letter from Trump that. Alleged. He denies it. I want to be very clear, because they're very litigious. I got one going. I can't do anymore. But no, alleged, completely alleged that Trump wrote in the book. I don't know. It is entirely possible that Jeffrey Epstein had two close friends named Donald Trump. Absolutely.

Ben Shapiro (6:41)

We don't know. He denies it.

Bill Maher (6:45)

But, you know, they asked Trump about it this week, and he said it's a debt issue. And he keeps saying this, and, you know, he keeps wanting this to be a debt issue, and it keeps not being a debt issue. Something keeps coming up about the Epstein thing. I'm not saying he's looking for a distraction from this, but if you're a Venezuelan, I wouldn't go boating this weekend.

Ben Shapiro (7:06)

That's all I'M gonna. Oh, also.

Bill Maher (7:15)

This is also big news from the Southern hemisphere, from Brazil. Bolsonaro, the president down there who was on trial for trying to steal the election, was convicted for trying to overturn the election that he lost. Trump is furious about this. He accused the entire government of being a functioning democracy.

Ben Shapiro (7:41)

And one last thing, kind of big news.

Bill Maher (7:46)

The Catholic Church, Catholics. Here you have your first millennial saint.

Ben Shapiro (7:53)

Okay, all right. Never had a millennial sa.

Bill Maher (7:56)

It's an attempt by the church to bring young people back into the fold. Another option, stop molesting them.

Ben Shapiro (8:02)

All right, we got a great show. We have Ben Shapiro. Until now, Berta. But first stop. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad he's here. This is gonna be so much fun. He's an actor. He was always the number one in whatever he did. He's now the subject of the two part documentary on Netflix, AKA Charlie Sheen.

Bill Maher (8:20)

And the author of the book of Sheen, a Memoir. Charlie Sheen is over here.

Ben Shapiro (8:24)

Charlie Sheen. Hello. Thank you all. Hey, pal. Been a while. How are you? Good, good. How are you? Look at you. Thank you. Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Charlie.

Bill Maher (8:39)

So amazing. You're amazing. I had you, I had you in the deadpool like so many people. And yet here you are. I gotta tell you, your memoir. I watched the Netflix documentary last weekend. I thought, oh, you know, I have it all weekend. It's three hours long. I'll watch an hour Friday. An hour. I couldn't, I couldn't go to the bathroom if there was ever a life that was meant for a memoir. And then I read the book. I couldn't stop putting that down.

Charlie Sheen (9:12)

That's amazing. Thank you.

Bill Maher (9:13)

Well, I mean, your excess is our entertainment.

Ben Shapiro (9:23)

And no ghostwriter.

Bill Maher (9:25)

This was not told to Phil Pepper.

Charlie Sheen (9:27)

I don't know who that is, but.

Bill Maher (9:29)

Who did all the sports books?

Charlie Sheen (9:31)

Ah, okay. Yeah, sorry. No, I, I made a decision early on that, that, that is, that, that that's not the way I was going to tell my story because I've always been kind of curious about how somebody can then go promote something and say that they wrote it when they, you know, told stories over the phone to a stranger.

Bill Maher (9:51)

You can tell. It's your voice.

Charlie Sheen (9:53)

Oh, right on, right on. Thank you.

Bill Maher (9:54)

And, and your spelling.

Ben Shapiro (10:01)

Am I wrong? Yeah, no, you're not. You're not wrong.

Charlie Sheen (10:04)

Yeah. Because in my mind, fuckin has, you know, two K's.

Ben Shapiro (10:12)

Yes, it could. And an En.

Charlie Sheen (10:15)

And cool just feels cooler with a K.

Bill Maher (10:20)

Well, yeah. I mean you are a cool cat. And you prove it. Cause you have Nine lives. And.

Ben Shapiro (10:29)

You'Re.

Bill Maher (10:32)

I mean, the stories, it's like one of those things from, like the Old west, you know, he every. And it's all true. Like, he really did kill a man just for snoring, you know, and you, you, you know, you really. It's not in the book.

Ben Shapiro (10:46)

No, no, no, no, not that.

Bill Maher (10:49)

I'm just saying I'm making a comparison. I'm like, all the stories, like, you really did try crack for the first time while getting blown.

Charlie Sheen (11:01)

I mean, it's interesting that you mentioned that. I don't recommend it.

Bill Maher (11:10)

Which one.

Charlie Sheen (11:12)

But I highly recommend it.

Ben Shapiro (11:15)

And. Yeah.

Charlie Sheen (11:22)

But that wasn't to sensationalize the act of that or the drug itself. It was more about just giving a prime example of how the introduction to that drug had that attached. And so I knew that like anything past that was going to have to mirror that or in the mirror doing that. That was stupid and. Yeah, or it wouldn't feel the same. You know.

Bill Maher (11:53)

I'm just saying the human body is amazingly resilient. I mean, you're right. It really is.

Charlie Sheen (11:59)

You're right.

Bill Maher (12:00)

And you especially, you actually do have tiger blood is really what the punchline of the whole thing is. I don't know a lot of other people who could have survived the amount that you did.

Charlie Sheen (12:10)

Yeah, no, it was, you know, revisiting all that stuff and then wanting to take the reader, take the audience on a, you know, deep into, into those wells. You know, I, I, it, I could sort of, I was, I had, you know, I was telling the truth and everything. Obviously you can see it on the page, you know, but there were those moments of, like, how am I able? Like, why is it me writing this? This should be somebody else writing about the memory of this guy. Because it was to a level of stuff that shouldn't be survived.

Bill Maher (12:48)

Well, a lot of people who would go through such a thing would then say, the fact that I'm here is evidence that there's God. Now, that's not why my approach would be to it. I don't know.

Charlie Sheen (12:57)

Right.

Bill Maher (12:57)

I mean, if it. Would you say that or if not, what is it evidence of?

Charlie Sheen (13:04)

I think it's evidence of something. I don't call it God, but I also don't take any credit for, you know, whatever that force is that did choose to keep me alive, you know, and if that's, if that's God to some and others, that's great. I don't reject that, you know, but, but yeah, it, you know, it was, it's an interesting Thing and like, you know, my goal was to finally put all the stories out there and make it, you know, very readable, very watchable, and then kind of, you know, put all this stuff to rest and tell people, moving forward, if you're curious about any of that stuff in the past, you can watch it, you can read it, or you can listen to it, you know, And I thought, okay, yeah, it's going to quiet things down and. Not the case. Not the case. Because I went into some areas that I've been keeping back here because you're.

Bill Maher (14:12)

A bit of a folk hero, even when you went through the real crazy period. And I remember doing jokes about it here, the twenties, I. I hoped you.

Charlie Sheen (14:19)

Would be doing jokes about that shit. I mean, yes, that was a fucking.

Bill Maher (14:22)

The winning era. It was a mess, to say the least. Yeah, but. And you know, people did not hate you for it. I mean, you went on that tour, I think it sold out in 18 minutes. I think it's the record for how fast somebody. Something sold out.

Charlie Sheen (14:38)

Seriously.

Bill Maher (14:39)

Wow. Yeah.

Ben Shapiro (14:40)

Wow. Because, I mean. Thanks.

Charlie Sheen (14:46)

There was nothing about that tour worth applauding.

Bill Maher (14:49)

No.

Ben Shapiro (14:51)

Wow. Wow.

Bill Maher (14:52)

No, but people did, like, in the same. Some way vicariously want to be that guy who can just give the finger to society, which, you know, they think keeps them down and they're not having a great life. And this guy just says what he wants and does what he wants and, you know, you did too much drugs, but you had fun with it. I mean, Matthew Perry sat in that seat not long before he died. And I know you wrote about it in the book.

Charlie Sheen (15:16)

I did.

Bill Maher (15:17)

And it's a similar kind of addiction. But I feel like his was sad. I don't feel like he had the fun you had. I think you hurt your body and hurt other people, truly. But you had fun all the time.

Charlie Sheen (15:29)

Well, yeah, I. It. The party, you know, generally included others. You know, it included the extensive invites, you know, and I'm sorry that you weren't invited.

Ben Shapiro (15:51)

No, I don't mean that. No, no, no, no.

Charlie Sheen (15:57)

I. I think you're glad you weren't.

Bill Maher (16:00)

Well, I mean, I'm glad now that it comes out that you're half gay. No, not half. Which half? Well, I mean, this one I did not have on the bingo card that at some point, you know, you're very upfront about it. You also, you said you turned the menu over, which I assume means and then men, and you were with men. Which were you? Were you the.

Ben Shapiro (16:30)

I don't know, you know.

Charlie Sheen (16:32)

Oh, you mean, like when you're when you're changing the fitted sheet and it says top or bottom. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Shapiro (16:39)

No.

Charlie Sheen (16:41)

Never got there. But everything else. No. And, and, and, and the reason that, you know, I've been just sitting on that stuff and I know there's been rumors out there and people talking about different things, and I was finally like, you know, I know what it feels like to, you know, the energy and the stress and the fear of hanging on to that, you know, those experiences. I didn't know what it would feel like to just say, here, this is, you know, a small part of my journey.

Bill Maher (17:17)

Okay.

Charlie Sheen (17:22)

A brief part of my journey.

Bill Maher (17:23)

But isn't that how you imagine you got aids?

Charlie Sheen (17:27)

Well, it's interesting. Well, it's not. It's hiv.

Bill Maher (17:31)

Okay. Sorry.

Charlie Sheen (17:31)

Yeah, no, it's fine. And, yeah, that's why it's where it is in the book. I don't come out and say that, but I do place it there in the chronology of events to talk about. Okay. Yeah. Then it went to here. These people came in, we turned into that thing. And then, you know, as I.

Bill Maher (17:51)

And how are you with that? You look completely healthy.

Charlie Sheen (17:53)

Oh, thank you.

Ben Shapiro (17:54)

No, I remember you when you first.

Bill Maher (17:58)

Came out, it was 10 years ago, and you were talking about. And you were saying, look, I mean, it's great that they have these drugs, but. And then you said the word poopy pants. That was part of the problem with the drugs.

Charlie Sheen (18:09)

Yeah, I mean, that.

Bill Maher (18:10)

Was that over.

Charlie Sheen (18:11)

Yeah, that was the drugs and tons of whiskey.

Ben Shapiro (18:16)

Yeah.

Charlie Sheen (18:18)

And there's, as you know, there's poopy pants with whiskey without those drugs.

Bill Maher (18:23)

So. No, but you're right. I'm glad I wasn't invited too.

Ben Shapiro (18:27)

You know what I'm saying?

Bill Maher (18:35)

I thought one of the greatest insights in there is when you talk about the fact that when you did bad things and I think you're. I think what we can take away from this is you did bad things, but you're not a bad guy.

Charlie Sheen (18:46)

Thank you.

Ben Shapiro (18:47)

Thank you. And a lot of people in your.

Bill Maher (18:53)

Life stood up for you in this documentary. You didn't have to. Jon Cryer is in it and Denise Richards is in it and Chris Tucker and lots of people. Your kids, I mean. But you say something so interesting and it's important, I think, for people who are considering being a drug addict, that when you did bad things, you weren't mad at the person, Chuck Lorre, or the wives or the girlfriend. You were mad that the drug wasn't working as well as it used to be. Drug addict kids, two words Diminishing returns. Yeah, especially coke and those kind of drugs. They have diminishing returns. And when they didn't give you that feeling that you're always chasing. Right. That's what pissed you off.

Charlie Sheen (19:37)

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a frustration that you can't fix, you know, and then it's being confronted with the potential realization that, you know, it's got to be adios, you know?

Bill Maher (19:59)

Well, I think the other great insight there is that we get from the book and the documentary. He had a life with no consequences. That's why it was very few. That's why you were allowed to do this. I mean, I remember when Trump was on the tape saying when you were, you know, the grab pussy tape. And he says, when you're a star, they let you do it. And I feel like that's the catchphrase for your. When you're a star, they let you do it. And that's how it got so out of control.

Charlie Sheen (20:27)

Right, right. There were no consequences for a while until there were. You know what I mean?

Bill Maher (20:35)

And then big time.

Charlie Sheen (20:36)

And then big time.

Bill Maher (20:37)

Yeah.

Charlie Sheen (20:38)

Yeah.

Bill Maher (20:38)

Well, I think you're well prepared now for a third act. I know you haven't really worked a lot lately, but I think you should.

Ben Shapiro (20:47)

I think you at a place now where you could be a really. I mean, you. When you. When you put your mind to it.

Bill Maher (20:55)

In those movies, those big movies, you were quite a good actor. Thank you. It wasn't like you glided by just on the charm and the poopy pants. Thank you. Thank you.

Charlie Sheen (21:04)

No, that's.

Bill Maher (21:05)

I think you should. And this is the kind of age where the actors are really good. You should. You should really. You should. You should do it. You should get a really good job.

Ben Shapiro (21:14)

Do a movie. People are ready.

Bill Maher (21:16)

You came clean, so that's what I'm looking forward to.

Charlie Sheen (21:20)

But be patient. Correct. Waiting for that, for that great piece of material.

Bill Maher (21:26)

Oh, yeah, yeah. Don't do schlock.

Charlie Sheen (21:28)

Yeah. No, no, no. I'm not going back to work on Monday. I mean, what are we doing? But, but.

Bill Maher (21:36)

All right.

Charlie Sheen (21:36)

Yeah.

Bill Maher (21:36)

Okay. All right, cool.

Charlie Sheen (21:38)

Thank you, though. Those are lovely words. I appreciate that.

Bill Maher (21:41)

Glad you're still here with us.

Charlie Sheen (21:42)

Likewise.

Ben Shapiro (21:43)

Charlie. Charlie Sheen. All right, I'll see you soon. All right, let's meet. Hey, guys. All right. He's a staff writer at the Atlantic and author of the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory. Tim Alberta, back with us. Tim, how you doing? And he's the co founder of the.

Bill Maher (22:09)

Daily Wire and author of Lions and the True Story of America and her critics. Ben Shapiro.

Ben Shapiro (22:14)

Ben, how are you? All right, so I didn't.

Bill Maher (22:20)

I realized this was going to be kind of a theme show because we write our editorial before the week starts. And so it was all about freedom of speech. Then the assassination occurred. So this is turning into a theme show. But it is kind of interesting that this guy was shot and he's been on our show. But on my podcast I talk to him. I like to him I get, I like to. I like everybody. I talk to everybody. I think I'm glad I took that approach. But he was shot under a banner that said prove me wrong because he was a debater and too many people think the way to do that to prove you wrong is to just eliminate you from talking altogether. So the people who mocked his death or justified it, I think you're gross. I have no use for you. The people who are saying, now we're at war, I have no use for you. So my first question, true or false? I think the real war is not between left to right. It's for the people from the. It's between the people on both sides who want war and the people who don't.

Michael Cirill Creighton (23:20)

I mean, I think that's accurate. I knew Charlie for 13 years and when he was a kid, he was like an 18 year old kid. When I first met Charlie in the breakers in Palm beach and he was fundraising, running around and I watched him grow into a man and watch him get married and have a couple of very young kids and whatever you thought of Charlie's views is the fact is that what he made his living doing and what he actually did quite well, made himself really good at this, was just going and talking to people on the other side. And that's, you know, what he was killed doing. He was literally in the middle of answering a question and picked up the microphone and was shot in the throat. And we do have a serious problem in this country with people who believe that violence is the proper response to speech. And that does skew young. I mean, what the polls tend to show is that of gen Z, only 58% of gen Z believes that there is no excuse for violence in response to speech. Meaning that 42% believe that there are some times that the violence ought to be a response to speech, which is deeply terrifying. I mean, on a personal level, Obviously I have 24. 7 security. I've had 24. 7 security for a decade. I've spoken at a lot of college campuses. I never, honest to God thought that we were going to get to this point, even the assassination of political figures is not the same thing as just being shot in the throat for the crime of debating issues in the public square. And I thought, wrong. I thought that that's not what America is or what it should be about. And we've come to someplace incredibly dark in our nation's history. And, you know, I weep for the country, I weep for Charlie. It's terrific.

Ben Shapiro (24:56)

Yes, sir.

Bill Maher (24:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Tim Alberta (24:58)

You know, to Ben's point, a lot of the polling we've seen in recent years is all pointing in the wrong direction on this question about how acceptable political violence is. And, you know, I did not know Charlie. We were sort of sparring partners from afar at times, disagreed on a lot of things. I've got to say, one of the things that I really, really admired about the guy, especially over these last couple of years, I kept seeing these clips of him on campuses on your podcast, talking with Gavin Newsom on his podcast. He wanted the debate, he wanted the dialogue. He was not trying to cancel or censor or shut people down. He wanted to have those conversations with you. And it's just. It's tragic and it's terrible on so many levels. This is a young guy, he's a husband, he's a father, child of God. And he was killed representing the very American ideal that we settle our fights with work, not with weapons, which sounds cliche, but it's how we're here. It's how this experiment in self government works. And when that starts to fall apart. We've seen a lot of political violence in recent years. I mean, you know, I was with Steve Scalise in the hospital after he was nearly assassinated. Gabby Giffords, January 6, the attempt in Butler on President Trump's life. And sadly, the response to this has not been shock and horror and a reversal of the trend line in these polls. If anything, it seems as though, particularly to Ben's point among younger voters, that this is becoming mainstreamed and becoming acceptable in some way.

Bill Maher (26:33)

And also the governor of the state said social media is a cancer, which I think is true, because when you read some of the comments from people, they really are such in a bubble that they don't understand that it is happening on both sides. And I think the only way this is starts to get better is if both sides admit, okay, let's not have this debate about who started it. Let's not have the debate about who's worse, because plainly both sides do it now. And the right has done it too, a lot. Now here's a somebody Wrote, these are looking like Civil War times. They fired the first shot at Ashley Babbitt. Okay, Ashley Babbitt was in the January 6 riot. No one was going after her. She was part of a riot that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Place she got killed attacking law enforcement. Or maybe she wasn't, but people were. The second Donald Trump, okay, The guy who shot Donald Trump, we don't know what his politics were. That's just a disaffected nut. Okay, and the third Trump and the fourth Charlie Kirk. Our side hasn't fired a bullet. Your side has fired a lot of bullets and used hammers on Nancy Pelosi's husband and used firebombs on the Governor Shapiro's house. I mean, Trump.

Michael Cirill Creighton (27:49)

I mean, again, I think that if we actually want to get specific and do the litany and try to break it down, a lot of these people are indeed mentally ill. But I think that when people say political violence has to stop, to me that's too vague. It's the same thing saying violence has to stop. Yes, true. How is that useful? The reality is that as somebody who receives an inordinate amount of death threats, and I know the kind of death threats that Charlie was getting, you can break down the death threats and where they are coming from. And if we are not politically correct, then we understand that if there's a shooting at a synagogue, it is very likely to be either a white supremacist or a radical Muslim. If it is a shooting of a Republican politician, it is very likely to be a trans antifa Marxist shooter.

Bill Maher (28:31)

That is just not true. We don't know what this kid is.

Michael Cirill Creighton (28:34)

We do know this kid was of the left. We do know that.

Bill Maher (28:36)

We do know what.

Michael Cirill Creighton (28:37)

That this kid was of the political left. That is according to contemporaneous reporting from the Guardian as well as Tablet magazine today.

Bill Maher (28:42)

It's two days out. We don't know shit.

Michael Cirill Creighton (28:44)

But here's.

Bill Maher (28:45)

We don't know shit. They never do. The Internet is undefeated in getting it wrong to begin with.

Michael Cirill Creighton (28:49)

It's not about the Internet. That's about the. That's about the actual reporting by mainstream. Except the Guardian is not a right wing.

Bill Maher (28:56)

Here's what I. Here's what we heard. Here's what I was told so far. And I'll tell you what was wrong. First I heard he's a registered Republican. Not.

Michael Cirill Creighton (29:03)

Not true.

Bill Maher (29:04)

Okay, then he was a donor to Trump. Not true. His father works in the sheriff's office. Not true. There was a picture of him wearing a Pro Trump shirt. Not true. Member of the Democratic Socialists of America. Not true. We don't know what he is. Well, how are you so sure he's of the left now? I agree. When you write on a bullet, what did he write on the bullet?

Michael Cirill Creighton (29:28)

Catch says fascists, which is also a gamer thing.

Bill Maher (29:30)

Okay, but now I'm hearing he may have been part of that group for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough.

Michael Cirill Creighton (29:37)

You mean the groipers? Yes. I mean, so that would.

Bill Maher (29:40)

That you're sure he's not that.

Michael Cirill Creighton (29:42)

I'm not sure that he's not that.

Bill Maher (29:43)

Oh, a minute ago you were sure what he was.

Michael Cirill Creighton (29:45)

Hold on, hold on, Bill, hold on. Okay? Because I've been.

Ben Shapiro (29:47)

You were.

Michael Cirill Creighton (29:51)

The extreme high likelihood, given the fact that he said to his family that Charlie Kirk was too hateful, is that he was not a groper. Because the gripers would have said that Charlie wasn't hateful enough. Okay, let's be very like I know this movement, okay. When it comes to the point that I'm making, is there permission structures that have been created in certain areas of our politics? And in particular there is one on the left that is again, very far radical left, trans, antifa, Marxist. And then there are two that are semi on the right, White supremacists and radical Muslims, depending how you decide that you are going to actually categorize those things. The thing that all these groups have in common is a structure, a philosophical structure that says there is a system that is targeting me. That system is a system of power and it is deadly to me. Therefore I am excused in using violence against that system. That's the thing all of these movements have in common. And that we need a cognitive behavioral therapy in our politics that says that that is not true. That if I say a man is not a woman, that is not a genocidal threat to you. That if you say that you have a differential policy on immigration, that is not a threat to me. That if you say that you believe that Western civilization is superior to radical Islam, that that is not a threat to me. And again, I don't think that those permission structures are equally distributed across the political spectrum.

Bill Maher (31:07)

I mean, I think you are projecting your own intellectual, rational world onto people.

Ben Shapiro (31:12)

Who are not living in that universe.

Bill Maher (31:16)

Your thoughts on this?

Tim Alberta (31:19)

I think in part, Bill, maybe the problem is that we have not broadened out sufficiently the definitions of political violence. What I mean by that is, you know, when we see a transgender person shoot up a Christian school, that is in fact political violence. When we see a White supremacist shoot up a synagogue. That is, in fact, political violence. And I don't know that we as a society, I mean, we tend to think. Go back to the 60s and think about Bobby Kennedy and MLK in a sort of narrower definition of what people Political violence is. But in fact, if you were to consider sort of a bigger, more sweeping definition of much of the civic unrest that has begun to grip this country over the last, I would say, 10 to 15 years, actually quite a lot of it would fall into that category of political violence. And that's where you need institutional leadership. You need people who are in a position, whether it's in politics, government, whether it's in media, business, social media, whatever it is, starting with the three of us, to actually convey to people, hold them accountable, hold ourselves accountable, that this is not okay. Right.

Bill Maher (32:21)

To Ben's point, that is the difference of what's going on with the younger generation. It is very different than that old kind of political violence we talk about. Luigi Mangioni. This is the perfect example. Not just that. Do you remember about a month ago, there was a killing in New York City? Somebody was going after the NFL. Okay, that seems a little irrational to begin with. Didn't get the NFL, got off at the wrong floor and killed someone in real estate at Blackstone. This is a lady who works at Blackstone. It's a big real estate company. Internet flooded with people. Nothing to mourn here. One of them said thousands of Americans die from situations her company exacerbates. That's real different when you're just unhappy with society is how society is, and you want to blame people who, you know, we all have a little stake in what makes society not work perfectly. That's a place we really can't go.

Michael Cirill Creighton (33:21)

Well, those are the permission structures that I'm talking about. Right. That is a permission structure that says the health care system doesn't work the way that I want it to work. Therefore, Luigi Mangione shooting to death, the UnitedHealthcare CEO is somehow justifiable. And when I say permission structure does not exist equally on both sides for that, I mean that I was very critical of Bill Burr. He and I got in a big fight about this. Bill Burr literally said on. He said this repeatedly, Free Luigi in the aftermath of that. That is not a joke. Okay? I'm sorry. You don't get to. You're a comedian. That is not a joke. Free Luigi after a murder.

Bill Maher (33:54)

Yeah.

Michael Cirill Creighton (33:54)

And this sort of despicable behavior does raise the temperature. If our body politic is basically a pot of water, and you keep turning up the temperature, it's going to bubble over.

Tim Alberta (34:03)

And young people are desensitized to this in ways that I don't think we can appreciate. I mean, when you talk about even the generational juxtaposition, looking back at the 60s, for example, the shock and trauma that the country was going through in the wake of those assassinations, it's just night and day to where we are now. I mean, these videos of Charlie being assassinated have tens of millions of views online. Think about what that does to the body politic. Think about what it does to the individual. But then think about what it does.

Michael Cirill Creighton (34:28)

To the body politics and the social media system. System is so perverse. I mean, these are snuff films of my friend getting shot to death. And those snuff films, they're people who get some sort of sick thrill from that. And those are the next assassins. And a permission structure that allows that, whether that's a social media or political infrastructure that refuses to call out the movements that again, say that other political arguments make you an enemy. A threat to my life that requires me to take action. Any movement that does that is doing something deeply wrong.

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Bill Maher (36:24)

All right, I have to cover many issues on this show, so moving on, you Know, this is like the worst segue I've ever done. We like to give marriage advice here on the show. I can't even.

Ben Shapiro (36:39)

And who better than me? So we saw this story.

Bill Maher (36:46)

A guy named Arthur Sahakian, his wife, who's Iranian, I think, by birth, and was here. Her green card lapsed, and ICE arrested her. And the husband still backing Trump, even though ICE came and took his wife away. And so we thought we'd put out a pamphlet for people who might need the call signs. Your husband loves Trump more than he loves you.

Ben Shapiro (37:17)

To see what's in this. Okay.

Bill Maher (37:21)

He hugs the flag more than he hugs you.

Ben Shapiro (37:24)

Well, there you go. That's.

Bill Maher (37:30)

He turned his man cave into a ballroom.

Ben Shapiro (37:33)

Well.

Bill Maher (37:38)

He'S on the kiss cam with a woman from work at a Lee Greenwood concert.

Ben Shapiro (37:48)

When you ask why he's always in.

Bill Maher (37:50)

The bathroom, he says that's where he keeps his top secret files. These are just ways in his phony. Put your mother under the department of war. Well, that's when you're sexting. After he comes, he types. Thank you for your attention to this matter. When he wants to have anal sex, he calls it invading Brownland. Oh, and if you don't have an orgasm, he says it's because your vagina is rigged.

Ben Shapiro (38:42)

All right, so I want to show.

Bill Maher (38:49)

The video of the Philadelphia. Karen, have you heard about this story? There was a lady, there's a kid, and this is not the first time this has happened. There's a whole spate of things on the Internet of adults snatching stuff from children. What the. What the fuck is wrong with this country? But this woman in Philadelphia, somebody. The ball went in the stands. I don't know who got it first, but she went over and took it. Oh, here she is. There. She's confronting the father. I got the ball. And look what he does. He gives her the ball. I just think this guy is my hero. This week de escalating, he de.

Ben Shapiro (39:23)

Escalated something. Could we do that?

Tim Alberta (39:27)

Hey, listen, these are Philly fans. These are the people who booed Santa Claus. Just remember that.

Bill Maher (39:32)

Okay?

Tim Alberta (39:33)

So this should not come as a surprise.

Bill Maher (39:35)

Okay, now let's talk about the other horrible violence we saw this week. And of course, this is the kind of violence that happens every day to lots of people of all races and so forth. This happens to be a white girl on a train who was killed by a black man. So people are making a lot out of that. But this happened in Charlotte, North Carolina. It, to me, is tailor made for Republican victory because the mayor there In Charlotte, of course, she said prayers and thoughts go out to the victim. And then she's not villainizing those who struggle with their mental health or those who are unhoused. She couldn't give, she couldn't resist giving a shout out to the mentally deranged homeless demographic. I'm just gonna say the Democrats are gonna lose another election if they don't get it. You can say homeless and crazy. We could say those words and you can come out against this fully. You know, why not just do a land acknowledgement before you say this, for fuck's sake.

Ben Shapiro (40:37)

And this guy was, the guy who.

Bill Maher (40:41)

Did it, had been arrested 14 times. I mean, this guy, this recidivism, this is Trump's next low lying fruit, I'm sure. Because when you look at some of the stats of people like in Washington D.C. they say 500 people are responsible for 70% of the gun violence. What is the point of arresting people if they go right back on the street? What is the point of mass transit.

Ben Shapiro (41:08)

If nobody feels safe on it?

Tim Alberta (41:11)

You know, traditionally, Bill Democrats representing urban areas had taken these sort of soft on crime policies in part because they were afraid of alienating a core constituency, black voters. What's interesting is that even as polling has shown clearly that more and more black voters have advocated for tougher policing policies, many of these same Democratic politicians have remained very reluctant. Reluctant to get tougher on crime. Why? Because they're afraid of alienating a different demographic.

Bill Maher (41:41)

It's so racist.

Tim Alberta (41:41)

White liberals in the suburbs, it's so racist.

Bill Maher (41:45)

It's kind of saying we think the black people are the criminals. Some are not most. Not most.

Michael Cirill Creighton (41:52)

Implicitly, the argument that we have to be soft on crime in order to get black votes, like black people want crime.

Bill Maher (41:57)

It's racist.

Michael Cirill Creighton (41:58)

Of course it is. Of course it's racist. And the idea that you're going to leave people on the street because they are crazy is so benighted, Honestly, it's cruel to people who are severely mentally ill. Truly. Like leaving a bunch of people who are schizophrenic, homeless schizophrenics on the street, not taking their drugs is not good for them, it's not good for society. And releasing people back onto the streets after 14 arrests. And then, you know what the mayor said, she said, you know, we can't incarcerate our way out of this problem. Well, actually, actually you can. It turns out that you can.

Ben Shapiro (42:29)

It's certainly part of the solution.

Bill Maher (42:35)

Well, I mean, they're talking now. Trump, I think, is talking now. About bringing back what we used to call an insane asylum. I'm sure that's a terrible word now.

Michael Cirill Creighton (42:43)

Mental institution, whatever the fuck.

Bill Maher (42:45)

It doesn't.

Charlie Sheen (42:46)

We know what it is.

Bill Maher (42:49)

And we know the argument against that. Yes, you don't want to be the person who. Somebody who you don't even know says, you know what? You're crazy, because we are all a little crazy. But then there's just crazy crazy. And the fact that, you know, we let this situation. Again, Trump takes advantage of all these things that Democrats just let fester. That life, you know, on mass transit becomes this game of Russian roulette, or on the streets, many places where you just have to dodge and just accept the fact that there are some nutty people out there who could do God knows what.

Michael Cirill Creighton (43:23)

By the way, the victim in that case, you know who she was wishing for? Daniel Penny. Right. Daniel Penny from the New York subway.

Bill Maher (43:28)

Remind me.

Michael Cirill Creighton (43:30)

So Daniel Penney was on the New York subway, and a deranged homeless man was threatening people on the New York subway, and he was black, and Daniel Penney was white, and Daniel Penney put him in a submission hold and he died. And Daniel Penney was tried and he was treated as though he was a racial criminal for this. You wonder why nobody will step in and nobody will stop anything. Maybe because you won't put enough cops on the street to stop this. And then if a civilian steps in to try and stop it, you try him while giving everybody cashless bail in the city of New York. That would be the reason he was exonerated. Yeah, but you wouldn't want to go through trial. I mean.

Ben Shapiro (44:02)

No, no, no.

Michael Cirill Creighton (44:03)

Nobody wants that.

Tim Alberta (44:03)

Listen, listen. This is. This whole thing is broken. The conversation around policing and crime is broken. And the left owns so much of the fault here. Just to be clear, again, treating this as it's a political issue, this is overwhelmingly performative towards white liberals in the suburbs, who themselves, when they come into the city for a ball game or for whatever else, have safety concerns. But it's sort of.

Michael Cirill Creighton (44:26)

It's a luxury belief. It's a luxury belief, Henderson says. Right, exactly.

Tim Alberta (44:29)

Socially and politically unacceptable to express that belief in certain circles. But it's interesting because, you know, Donald Trump's approval on the issue of crime is far and away higher than any other issue for him. The economy, immigration, you name it. Everything else, his highest approval ratings are on how he's handled crime. And yet we saw polling this week that showed that even a lot of the voters who agree with his approach to crime did not approve of him sending the military into Washington, D.C. so when I say the conversation's broken here, it seems as though we have a lot of noise coming from sort of two extremes here when the great majority of Americans live somewhere between the 30 yard lines.

Bill Maher (45:06)

The military was not the answer in my view. I covered that last week. But could I make a suggestion to the Democrats? Get out ahead on one of these issues. Pick the insane asylum issue. Get out ahead on it. 90% of New Yorkers I read, they're for that. Getting the crazy people. No kidding.

Michael Cirill Creighton (45:26)

It's one area where the right wing is like, you know, big government, go ahead. Right. Like more funding for involuntary communities for people who are mentally ill. Gavin News.

Bill Maher (45:34)

Who'S now ahead in the polls. Told ya.

Ben Shapiro (45:38)

Told ya. He's for it.

Bill Maher (45:40)

I mean, what will it take to break the spell for the Democrats before they can get out ahead on this? Because I know what's going to happen. They're going to be the Johnny Comelatelys as they always are. After Trump demonstrates in the polling that they're behind him on this, like taxes on tips and all those other ones, then they're gonna come along and go, oh, yeah, no, we're us too. And that never works.

Michael Cirill Creighton (46:05)

Well, Trump has a magic power, which is if he says something, the Democrats must take the other side of the thing. So he says crime is bad. Democrats like, well, is it though? Let's give it a second thought. Maybe it's like we can maybe, you know, you know, it's a thing that happens. We can't incarcerate.

Bill Maher (46:19)

They're not saying that. But, you know, this was a good example. All right, final issue. Israel struck Qatar this week. And of course, in the legacy media, which always thinks inside the box, this was a terrible escalation of the war. I think it was fine, because you know what? This. Thank you. Thank you. One guy.

Tim Alberta (46:42)

Two guys.

Bill Maher (46:43)

This war, which has now been going on for almost a couple of years, I mean, I wish they would wrap it up. I don't know what left to bomb, but I'm not in the idf. Maybe it's overkill. But Coleman Hughes made a great point. He said, you know, maybe it was overkill when the north burned Atlanta to the degree they did. But you still wouldn't say that the north was on the wrong side of the war. Okay, having said that, it's also been a war on hypocrisy. Israel just had it with people being able to get away with things, only they were not able to get away with and they just said, you know what, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, you can't hide anymore anywhere. And Hamas was being ordered and run from luxury apartments. These guys were living in luxury lifestyles while their people were starving and living in tunnels. And Israel said, we're not going to put up with this anymore. You are not safe anywhere. And as this was the anniversary of 911 yesterday, I thought it was very apropos to mention that after 9 11, George Bush said his doctrine was, we will make no distinction between the terrorists and the people who harbor them. I don't remember anybody objecting to that. So why would anybody object to this?

Michael Cirill Creighton (48:00)

I mean, it is quite terrible, obviously, to go into an allied country and a country allied with the United States and kill terror heads like, you know, Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, which is what we actually did. Right. Like, the idea that they should be immune because they are in Qatar is ridiculous. Also, I will say Bernie Sanders, who is, of course extraordinarily anti Israel, he should be grateful to Israel because all these people were billionaires. And Israel just rid the world of a multiplicity of millionaires and billionaires who happen to be Hamas terrorists living in Qatar.

Tim Alberta (48:28)

I mean, I think the only answer is a good impression.

Bill Maher (48:33)

Thank you.

Michael Cirill Creighton (48:34)

I appreciate that.

Tim Alberta (48:35)

I think, Bill, the one answer I think potentially to the question you just posed is how'd that work out for George W. Bush?

Bill Maher (48:42)

Right.

Tim Alberta (48:43)

There is, you know, there is something about unintended consequences geopolitically. And ultimately W. Bush, I think, by the end of the war on terror, had frayed alliances all over the Middle east and all over the world, really, because he had overextended himself a bit and was a little bit maybe too cavalier. I think that would be the risk people would say, if you're just looking at this analytically, what is the downside potentially of striking inside Qatar? That could be the risk, right? Is that you have regional allies, you have allies elsewhere who may take exception to it.

Bill Maher (49:16)

Okay, but they didn't invade Qatar and they didn't occupy it. They didn't get bogged down. Now they are bogged down in Gaza. But that's. We understand why that happened. Now, again, I don't know when this war should end. I wish it would end tomorrow. I mean, I don't know who else you can kill over there.

Michael Cirill Creighton (49:33)

But the problem is obviously the hostages. How do you declare the war over when you still have 20 hostages who are in tunnels? That's really the political problem there. But on a military level, basically, Gaza City is the only thing that has been left relatively untouched. That's why that is the IDF's last. This is going to end, I believe in the next two to three weeks, you will see a declaration of the end of the war by the Israeli government.

Bill Maher (49:54)

Oh, really?

Michael Cirill Creighton (49:55)

You will see a movement of most of the population into humanitarian centers in Rafah and humanitarian enclaves on the coast. And then you will start to see.

Bill Maher (50:03)

A rebuilding because let's end this show on a positive note there.

Ben Shapiro (50:06)

All right, thank you, guys. Let's hope that's true. And time for new rules. Okay, new rule.

Bill Maher (50:19)

If people are going to keep throwing dildos at sporting events, a phenomenon which started in the WNBA but has now spread to football and golf, we have to hire the ball boys from the US Open to run out and retrieve.

Michael Cirill Creighton (50:37)

Them.

Ben Shapiro (50:40)

Just like at a tennis match. And then they should throw them back.

Bill Maher (50:45)

In the stands and give America's Karen something to really fight about. Nero, now that Trump has posted this image of himself declaring a military incursion into the city of Chicago, Chipocalypse now someone must tell him Chipocalypse now sounds like a high end cookie store. No, just because Hitler famously had a retreat in the Bavarian Alps called the Wolf's Lair doesn't mean that this restaurant that opened in Queens called Wolf's Lair is doing it as some sort of nod to Hitler. It's purely a coincidence. It's a nice restaurant in a great location right across from Klaus Barbecue. Now that Spirit Airlines has filed for bankruptcy for the second time in less than a year, they have to change their name to Dispirit Airlines.

Ben Shapiro (51:59)

And then.

Bill Maher (52:00)

Market themselves directly to Gen Z Dispirit Airlines. We can't even Neuro the trainer is at a French marine zoo whose job it is to sexually stimulate a killer whale until it climaxes to keep it from inbreeding. Have to look on the bright side. Sure, you spent four years earning a degree only to spend your afternoons jerking off a whale, but it's the kind of job you'll never lose to AI. And finally, new rule. You can love America and still be okay with burning the flag. President Trump wants to make that illegal. And I know for conservatives this is an issue that really drives them up a wall that Mexico isn't paying for. But that's the great irony. Flag burning is free speech speech. And free speech is one of the key things that makes America great.

Ben Shapiro (53:13)

So now that I have you on.

Bill Maher (53:14)

My side on that issue, don't be a hypocrite and defend attacks on speech from the left because you either get the concept or you don't. And sadly, a lot of people don't anymore. Yes, mostly the young who were never taught it by their derelict educational system, but also Lisa Cook. She's the Fed board member Trump is trying to fire for bullshit reasons, and they are bullshit. But when she tried to get another professor fired because he once, according to one student, was less than rapturous about Martin Luther King Day. No, she should know better. She said free speech should have its limits. Yes, it should and does. And this comes nowhere close to them. It's bad enough that Trump is attacking free speech from the right, throwing the Associated Press out of the press pool, calling reporters enemy of the people, threatening and suing networks simply because he doesn't like the coverage. This country can't become that. But it also can't become what the UK is now. A place where you get arrested for tweets, something that happens 12,000 times a year. Now in Britain last week, the Irish sitcom writer Graham Linehan, who's won an Emmy and five BAFTA awards, got off a plane at Heathrow and got arrested by five British cops. Not because he was selling drones to the Houthis, just because he's a crank who spends way too much time online ranting about gender ideology, which is an odd obsession for a comedian from across the pond, because if men weren't allowed to dress as women, British comedy wouldn't exist. There'd be absolutely nothing left of Shakespeare. But the Sonnets and Monty Python movies would be 20 seconds. But in the words of that great Brit, Ricky Gervais, if you don't believe in a person's right to say things that you might find grossly offensive, then you don't believe in freedom of speech. You shouldn't have to eat your words at the airport. The chicken Alfredo on the flight was bad enough. Linehan may be crude, but there's plenty of non crazy people, liberal people, who think the left has gone a little mad with trans issues. Some have expressed that opinion with literary sophistication, like J.K. rowling, some by getting big laughs like Dave Chappelle. And some are downright ugly about it, like Linehan. But ugly is the price of. Of a freedom so great as speech. Trump tried to disappear someone for writing an anti Israel op ed in a student newspaper, which I found offensive, but I still would go to the mat for that person to be able to print it. And we can fight Trump on this because we have a First Amendment. England does not. And the fact that they don't, that's Not a feature. That's a bug. And it's a bug that's going around Europe now. In Germany, a guy called a politician a pimmel, which is the German word for dick, and it triggered a police raid. What? A pimmel move. A guy from North Yorkshire in Britain faced two years in prison for wearing a Halloween costume depicting the terrorist Ariana Grande concert. Bad taste. Yeah, bad taste is the whole point of Halloween. This Scottish man was found guilty of hate speech for a YouTube video where he taught his pug to salute when he said, zieg heil Elon Musk watched it and said, I don't see it. But you know, Musk, Kanye, this fucking dog.

Ben Shapiro (57:47)

They're all wrong.

Bill Maher (57:48)

And they all have the right to be wrong. Britain is now considering the so called pub law, okay? It's not just about pubs. It's a workplace bill aimed at preventing any kind of harassment in the workplace, including verbal remarks overheard. Okay? Problem is, a pub is a workplace. So is a bookstore. Would a major chain like Waterstones risk hosting a book signing by a controversial author like J.K. rowling? And pubs. People go to pubs for two to drink and to exercise their inalienable right to talk shit.

Ben Shapiro (58:33)

They're not in the House of Lords.

Bill Maher (58:34)

They're in a bar called the Drunken Cock. Any Brit will tell you the food is awful, the weather sucks, but at least you can call each other a cunt. And now that's gone. It's like making a rule at the dog park. No ass sniffing. Okay, here's the kicker. Get this. Saudi Arabia is having a comedy festival this month. Really? Saudi Arabia? It's going to be great. If you die on stage, you get 72 virgins.

Ben Shapiro (59:16)

And.

Bill Maher (59:19)

Chappelle is performing. If you told me years ago that Saudi Arabia would be cool to have Dave Chappelle speak and England might arrest him, I would have said, what are you smoking?

Ben Shapiro (59:30)

All right, thank you, folks. I want to thank my guests, Tim Alberta, Ben Shapiro and Charlie Sheen Club Random drops Every Monday on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcast. Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. How kind of you.

HBO Announcer (59:51)

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