Ep. #707: WH Border Czar Tom Homan, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), Alex Wagner

Summary

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Real Time with Bill Maher – Episode #707

Guests: Tom Homan, Sen. Joe Manchin, Alex Wagner

Date: September 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the escalating political and cultural polarization in America, focusing on free speech, media “cancel culture,” and immigration policy. Bill Maher and his guests—former ICE director Tom Homan, Senator Joe Manchin, and commentator Alex Wagner—debate recent high-profile controversies, including the firing of Jimmy Kimmel, government threats against media, and border policy under recent presidents. Maher’s signature "New Rules" segment closes with a reflection on the futility of politicizing mass shootings.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Monologue: Media Cancellations & Free Speech (01:40–10:14)

• Bill Maher opens with sharp commentary on the firing of Jimmy Kimmel after controversial remarks and the right’s increasing pressure on media outlets, invoking his own history with ABC (“White House keeps heat on ABC’s More”).
• Maher criticizes both political sides for stoking fear and attacks the hypocrisy of “cancel culture,” arguing it’s wielded by whoever holds power.
• Notable quote:
  • “It was 24 years to the day that I made comments on ABC that got me canceled from that network. And Jimmy Kimmel took my slot... I got canceled before cancel even had a culture.” — Bill Maher (03:45)
• He frames the broader stakes: erosion of tolerance for opposing views, and government threats to free speech.

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2. Border Debate with Tom Homan (10:14–21:03)

Republican Engagement vs. Democratic Absence

• Maher notes that Republicans regularly accept his invitations for debate, while major Democratic figures often decline.
• Raises concerns about hypocrisy around free speech, as both right and left weaponize the issue.

Border Security: Policy & Numbers

• Tom Homan claims the U.S. currently has “the most secure border in the nation’s history” but blames Biden for a massive surge at the border—over 10 million crossings.
  • “If Joe Biden became president, we’d lose the border... When you make this type of offer, the whole world’s going to come...” — Tom Homan (10:53)
• Maher challenges the numbers and questions Democratic motives for permissive policies; Homan speculates about political advantages (congressional seats, future voters).
  • “No one did it better than President Trump... Joe Biden, the first president... that came into office and unsecured a border on purpose.” — Tom Homan (13:04)
• Sanctuary cities are debated—Homan calls them “sanctuaries for criminals,” arguing they block ICE from detaining known threats.
  • “They’d rather release the criminal... back into public. There’s no justification for sanctuary city other than just its politics.” — Tom Homan (14:30)
• Maher advocates some level of immigration and suggests an amnesty for those already here, citing their economic contributions.

Enforcement & Human Costs

• Homan defends prioritizing dangerous criminals but insists “If you’re in the country illegally, you’re not off the table,” emphasizing the need to uphold laws.
  • Vivid stories illustrate smuggling’s brutality: “I’ve talked... to nine-year-old little girls who were raped by multiple members of a cartel just for passing her across the river.” — Tom Homan (17:08)
• Maher presses on alleged heavy-handedness of enforcement; Homan counters that it preserves opportunities for lawful immigrants.

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3. Panel Discussion: Cancel Culture, Political Violence & Division (23:26–45:39)

The Jimmy Kimmel Firing & Free Speech Hypocrisy

• The firing of Kimmel exemplifies cancel culture, says Maher, who sees it as about power, not principles.
• Joe Manchin urges regulation of online free speech, suggesting curbing Section 230 to hold platforms accountable.
  • “We do nothing to reel in the Internet. We do nothing on social media...” — Sen. Joe Manchin (24:12)
• Maher and Alex Wagner highlight government overreach, with Maher calling out Mike Pence’s misunderstanding of the First Amendment.
  • “The First Amendment... does not protect entertainers who say Crass or thoughtless things. The fuck yeah, it does.” — Bill Maher (26:59)
• Wagner notes administration officials' open threats toward media.

Who Gets Canceled?

• Maher mocks selective outrage, referencing Fox News’s Brian Kilmeade joking about “just kill” the homeless—ignored by the right.

  • “Brian says, or just kill them. And this apparently not controversial.” — Bill Maher (33:48)

• All lament the loss of civility and willingness to openly debate:

  • “The only crusade we really need is a crusade for civility.” — Sen. Joe Manchin (34:15)

Division & Calls for “National Divorce”

• The panel discusses figures—from Marjorie Taylor Greene to Ben Shapiro—openly floating a national separation. Maher jokes about which side would inherit American cultural touchstones.
• Ted Cruz earns rare bipartisan praise for defending free speech despite disliking Kimmel’s comments:
  • “If the government gets in the business of saying we don’t like what... we’re going to ban from the airwaves—it will end badly for conservatives.” — Bill Maher quoting Ted Cruz (37:41)

Reaching Across the Divide

• Manchin stresses empathy and bipartisanship, telling a story about fostering cross-party relationships on his houseboat (“a little boat on the river”)—showing that personal contact can overcome division.
  • “Before the night was over, the two were talking, became friends, and did an amendment the next day.” — Sen. Joe Manchin (38:10)
• Maher and Wagner agree both major parties have failings, but Wagner insists current GOP leadership deliberately foments division.

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4. Reflecting on Assassination, Partisanship, and Shared Humanity (44:01–45:39)

• The panel reflects somberly on the recent assassination of Charlie Kirk, warning against inhumanity toward political enemies.
  • “Charlie Kirk’s assassination is as bad for Democrats as it is for Republicans... you do not have to agree with what he said or what he believed in, but you have to mourn what his death represents.” — Alex Wagner (44:29)
• Wagner and Manchin spar over whether division is equally fueled by both sides; Maher suggests left-wing “cancel culture” was less state-driven than current right-wing efforts.
• Manchin demurs on running for president but signals continued political involvement.

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5. The Future of Parties: Democrats and Independents (46:06–48:26)

• Manchin, promoting his new book “Dead Center,” calls for a centrist “American party,” warning that Democrats risk alienating working people.
  • “When you quit worrying about the working person... There’s something wrong. And they lost ’em.” — Sen. Joe Manchin (48:09)
• Wagner defends the Democratic “big tent” and insists rumors of the party's demise are premature.

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6. New Rules – Political Satire & Commentary (48:27–end)

• Maher's “New Rules” targets absurd headlines, playground safety, password fatigue, helicopter safety, and, most pointedly, mass shootings.
  • He ridicules attempts to paint “the other side” as uniquely responsible for political violence, chronicling recent high-profile attackers whose motivations defy easy partisan categorization.
  • “What this is really about is a hole in the soul and broken families and gun glorification and getting brain raped by the Internet.” — Bill Maher (54:32)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|-------------------|-------| | 03:45 | Bill Maher | “I got canceled before cancel even had a culture.” | | 10:53 | Tom Homan | “If Joe Biden became president, we’d lose the border... When you make this type of offer, the whole world’s going to come...” | | 13:04 | Tom Homan | “Joe Biden... came into office and unsecured a border on purpose.” | | 17:08 | Tom Homan | “I’ve talked... to nine-year-old little girls who were raped by multiple members of a cartel just for passing her across the river.” | | 24:12 | Sen. Joe Manchin | “We do nothing to reel in the Internet. We do nothing on social media...” | | 26:59 | Bill Maher | “The First Amendment...does not protect entertainers who say Crass or thoughtless things. The fuck yeah, it does.” | | 34:15 | Sen. Joe Manchin | “The only crusade we really need is a crusade for civility.” | | 37:41 | Bill Maher quoting Ted Cruz | “If the government... we’re going to ban from the airwaves—it will end badly for conservatives.” | | 38:10 | Sen. Joe Manchin | “Before the night was over, [Tom Harkin and Ted Cruz] were talking, became friends, and did an amendment the next day.” | | 44:29 | Alex Wagner | “Charlie Kirk’s assassination is as bad for Democrats as it is for Republicans...you have to mourn what his death represents.” | | 54:32 | Bill Maher | “What this is really about is a hole in the soul and broken families and gun glorification and getting brain raped by the Internet.” |

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Tone & Style

Maher’s tone is acerbic, satirical, and often biting, but the panel brings nuance, personal anecdote, and moments of humor and solidarity. There’s a shared seriousness as they confront the consequences of political hatred, balanced with Maher’s trademark irreverence in the “New Rules.”

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Recommended Timestamps

• Monologue and Kimmel Firing: 01:40–10:14
• Border Security & Policy: 10:14–21:03
• Free Speech & Cancel Culture: 23:26–29:39
• Panel Division & Civility: 33:48–38:10
• Assassination & Humanity: 44:01–45:39
• New Rules (mass shootings & political violence): 48:27–end

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For listeners:
This episode offers a critical, often darkly humorous take on America’s fractures—and asks whether shared humanity can persist amid so much division. The border, censorship, violence, and polarization are dissected from all angles, with sharp disagreement but also a rare, earnest call for empathy and connection.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Terms apply.

[C]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

[A]

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Everybody still here. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you, people. Thank you so much. Please. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you very much. I. I know why you're happy tonight. I'm still on. That's pretty much. Oh, I tell you, man, talk show hosts are going down like blockbusters in the 90s. I mean, well, I guess you all heard Jimmy Kimmel, my friend, my compatriot, he's canned by ABC for comments he made about Charlie Kirk's assassin. The day right after the FCC guy came out ahead of the FCC, said he's going to revoke ABC's license. Let me just tell you something. I am not intimidated by the fcc. And if President Trump is watching, I have one thing to say to you. Have you lost weight? You look terrific. No, that's not me. And never will be. And we're gonna get to all of it. But I think here's Life is fucking weird. It was 24 years to the day that I made comments on ABC that got me canceled from that network. And Jimmy Kimmel took my slot. Did you know that at Politically Incorrect. Oh, yes. I got canceled before cancel even had a culture. So the headline, yeah, this is. This is on my wall from the Variety. White House keeps heat on ABC's More. This shit ain't new. It's worse. We'll get to that. But you know, abc, they are steady. ABC stands for Always Be caving. So, Jimmy, Jimmy Powell, I am with you. I support you. And on the bright side, you don't have to pretend anymore that you like Disneyland. That was, that was always a great part of it for me when I got my ass canned over there. But I mean, this intimidation on the right is just so hypocritical. I mean, everyone is scared now and they're all trying to kowtow. Good Morning America is now changing its name. Could do Good Morning America. Even the scum who didn't vote for Trump. I mean, listen to this. Next year, the Golden Bachelor is Rudy Giuliani. I mean, come on, you know, I'm telling you, everybody's good. Wolf Blitzer is broadcasting live from the capitulation room. That's. And the fcc, the FCC says they're going to go after maybe next the View. They got a new show lined up. It's going to be great. It's called Morning Wood with James Wood. But I gotta say, and I'm, I'm friendly with the ladies on the View, but they didn't say anything about this this week. Nothing, you know? Cause it's never been their thing to weigh in on the issues. It's just, you know, it's just, it's just an upbeat party show. That's why they hired people named Joy and Sonny and whoops. But no girls, let me tell you. Go out strong, okay? It won't kill you, I promise. It's happened to me and I may go out after this show. We don't know. We don't know. And you know, Jimmy, look, I don't think what he said was exactly right. I don't. We don't agree on that. He didn't lose his job for it. He said the MAGA crowd was trying to characterize the assassin as anything but one of them because the guy's the 22 year old kid in Jehovah's family was Maga. As if a 22 year old with a trans girlfriend never rebelled against their family. I mean, but, but was he on the left? I don't know that either. And I hate to do this. I'm tipping the end of the show, which I work so hard on, to keep a secret from the rest of the show. But it's too relevant. What I'm talking about at the end, I'm going to have to say now, which is that it is a fool's errand to try to say that these nuts who do these things are in a team. Jimmy's wrong, I think, to put him in one team. But you know, look at what this guy is doing. I mean, Jimmy has every right to be wrong, but look at this guy. He was doing porn, video games with furries. He was on a game called Furry shades of gay 3. This kid is in his basement with VR goggles on getting virtually ass fucked by a cartoon wombat. And you're gonna put politics into this? This kid doesn't belong in either party. He belongs in a straight jacket. He's an outpatient who should not be out. But you have the right to be wrong or to have any opinion you want. That's what the First Amendment is all about. I was defending it last week on the show against what they're doing in England against the left. Come on, guys, be fair. Now Trump is going after the New York Times. He sued them for $15 billion. He said they're a mouthpiece of the Democratic Party. You know what, Don? They are. You're right. And that's their right to be that. Like there's not a thousand people on the right who are your mouthpiece, okay? That's how we work this country. And he is mad at the New York Times today. He put a tariff on Wordle. But you know this. We can't go down this road, guys. We really can't. I mean, today Trump said he was designated antifa, a major terrorist organization. And they were shocked. They said we're organized. Why not? There is no organization. Antifa is a broad designation with no identifiable leader and no observable plan like the Democrats. So just so, Jimmy, let me just say, Powell, you did a great funny show for two decades. You should be proud of that. If this firing goes for you the way it did for me, you'll get 23 years on a better network. We've got a great show. Alex Wagner and Joe Manchin are here. But first up, he is the former ICE director under President Trump and known currently as the administration's borders are Tom Holman. Tom, look at that. How you doing? Pleasure to meet you, sir. Thank you for coming here. Yes, I mean that sincerely. The first thing I have to tell you is that Republicans come here. I was saying on my show a couple of weeks ago, and people I saw from the reactions on the Internet were shocked that I mentioned this. I should have said it before. They think I don't invite the Democrats. They think we never invited the Clintons. We invite them every week. They've never come. They think we didn't invite Kamala Harris. We invited her every week. She didn't come. AOC These people don't come. The Republicans they show up and they engage in the debate. And I know this is a little off your area and we're going to get to your area, but do you really think that they're not being a little hypocritical about the free speech issue now?

[D]

It is odd, Mary. Look, I've never turned down an invitation. I think the more we get out there and speak about truth versus fiction, miscommunication that's out there. I think most Americans, there's a lot of people in this country that hate me because of what I do. They have the luxury of knowing, of not knowing what I know wearing my shoes before you. So I don't turn down any invitation and talk to anybody because I'm hoping that when I get done, people say, okay, I get that.

[A]

Well, that's what you're here for. Let's get to it. What do you know? You're the borders or you used to be head of ice. You know all the facts and figures, what I read. The border is just closed. Give me the numbers.

[D]

We have the most secure border in history of the nation right now. And when you have that secure border, that means your national security is stronger. I mean, in the last four years of Joe Biden had over 10 million people come to the border. And what people need to understand, understand, they want to call it humanitarian crisis. I get it. But when you cause that sort of surge at the border. Because before the election I wrote an op ed saying if Joe Biden became president, we'd lose the border just because what he was saying, end IC tension, have a moratorium on deportations, award amnesty and all free health care, all these things. I said, when you make this type of offer, the whole world's going to come to the greatest nation, right? So we got the most secure border in the nation's history now. And that means less overdoses of people on fentanyl, less sex trafficking of women and children, less no inspected terrorists crossing the border. Right. The criminal cartels in Mexico are going bankrupt right now. So secure border helps protect our national security. Under Trump, 45, we had a total of 14 people on terrorist watch list come across under Joe Biden, over 400. But the thing that scares me the most is we had over 2 million, 2 million known gotaways. I say known because they're captured on video traffic, drone traffic or sensor traffic. We know they crossed, but they weren't captured, they weren't apprehended, they weren't vetted. Who are they? If we arrested 400 people from nations sponsoring Terror. How many of that, too many came from a country sponsored terror. The thing that scares me the most to this day, we don't know who they are, where they're at or why they came.

[A]

I think most people are for that. I certainly am. You said it was 10 million that came under Joe Biden.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Trump in England said today it was 25.

[D]

No, 25 illegally here in the United States. There is. Look, they've been talking about 12, 15 million for two decades. I've been doing this since 1984. That 12 million is so old. But we know over 10 million Joe Biden. So we just. Let's say we accept the 15 million we've been talking about decades, talking well over 25 million.

[A]

Why do you think the Democrats did this? I mean, it was not just bad for the country to have completely open borders. I mean, even the liberals understand that now. It was also bad politically. Why? What was?

[D]

I get asked that all the time. I don't understand. You know, I worked for six presidents. Ronald Reagan, every president I worked for, even Clinton, Obama, took some steps to secure the border because they understood you can't have strong national security, strong border security. No one did it better than President Trump. Like him and love him. Most successful, when it comes to border security and the safety of this nation, no one's done it better. Joe Biden, the first president in the history of this nation that came into office and unsecured a border on purpose. There wasn't an accident. It wasn't.

[A]

Why? Why?

[D]

I don't really know. The only thing I can guess is they saw a future political benefit from letting millions of people in the United States, whether they thought they were future Democratic voters. But remember when he signed 90 executive orders destroying everything we did? He also overturned the Trump census rule, which means millions of people released in sanctuary cities will be counted in the next census. What's that mean? More seats in House for the dams. There's no other reason. I ask every Democrat I ever talked to, what's the downside? In a secure border, what's the downside? Less illegal drugs killing Americans. What's the downside? Less sex trafficking on women and children. What's the downside? Less terrorists coming across the country. What's the downside? They can't give you a downside, so they must have saw future political benefit.

[A]

Sanctuary cities was tremendously hypocritical. These cities that were not on the border and didn't have the problem, and then when people started sending them to those cities, they were like, oh, Fuck. This is a terrible problem.

[D]

Sanctuary for cities. I get that from day one. I said sanctuary cities are sanctuaries for criminals. What does that mean? We just want access to the jail. The jail. We already locked somebody up and put them in a jail cell because they're obviously a public safety threat and they're in the country legally. Let us have access to them because here's what the general public don't know. If you and I get arrested tonight, you're going to be run through ncic. Your fingerprints are taken. It gets run through ncic, but at the same time it gets run against DHS databases. So we get a notification, tom Holman, illegal alien from this country, just got booked in Hohman County Jail. So we contact, say, hey, we want to talk to that guy. We have a warrant for him. He's been deported before. We want him. And they'd rather release the criminal public safety threat back into the public, which is your stoop. You're releasing a public safety threat back into public to reoffend. And they like saying sanctuary seats are needed because it protects immigrants. They want to report crimes. You're a victim or a witness of a crime. They want to feel welcome to come to the police and talk to them. I'm all for that. We're not looking for the victim of witness. We want the guy that you locked in the jail cell and the victim witness. They don't want him back in the neighborhood either. So there is no justification for sanctuary city other than just its.

[A]

But you would agree that we need some immigration, like we used to have a quota like a million people a year. Say that's the right number.

[D]

We still do. We are the most giving nation in the entire world.

[A]

Okay, so let's say it's that and we went overboard for the last four years under Biden and we let in too many. Wouldn't it be smarter now to say now that it's zero? Let's let that even out. We should have had. We were going to have 1 or 2 million every year, but we let in 10 million. Instead of uprooting all these people now, why not just an amnesty? Okay, it's not exactly kosher how you got here, but the amount of people you're scaring. I mean, I'm going to say to you the thing I said to him when I had dinner with him that horrible night and you know, they hated it that I reported it honestly, that he does listen. He looks you in the eye and he not got mad one time when we were arguing about Anything about anything. I contradicted him and I said to him, and I'll ask you now the exact words, you're scaring people. Do you really want to scare your own people this much? He talks about homegrowns are next. I mean, people are scared, not just illegal immigrants. And a lot of them are working. I live in la. They're the only people here who do work.

[D]

So here's what you don't know. First of all, Trump, President Trump has promised we're going to concentrate on public safety threats and national security threats. Right? And the data shows. Every morning I look at 22 pages of data. The last time I looked at the data was the day before yesterday. 70% of everybody arrested is a criminal. 70%. Who's the other 30%? Now they're in national security threats. We've arrested thousands of national security threats. Most of them don't have criminal histories because they're laying low to do their dirty deed down the road. And we arrest gang members, a lot of gang members don't have criminals. But let me get to the point though. If you want to send a message to the whole world, cross the border legally it's a crime, but it's okay. Have due process, get order removed by an immigration judge, don't leave, it's okay, just don't commit another crime, you're good to go. If that's the message we send to the whole world, people are going to keep coming. And let me tell you something, there's a whole illegal immigration is not a victim of crime. The reason I am who I am, I've talked and got on my knees and talked to nine year old little girls who were raped by multiple members of a cartel just for passing her across the river. I stood in the back of a tractor trailer with 19 dead people who baked to death. I ran out of Operation Ice Storm in Phoenix, Arizona, where smuggling organizations were ripping each other off because their smuggled people were worth more money then dope. So they go to the house and rip each other off. They call a relative up and say, I have your brother here. You owe us $25,000. They say, no, we agreed on 10. Well now it's 25,000. You pay it or I kill them. And they did. Bodies are piling up. They actually called relatives and tortured their son or their brother because they didn't pay the fees. What I'm saying is that's why you have to show there's consequences. Because if you send a message, there's no consequences and you want to reward illegal behavior that die cornerstone.

[A]

And I get all that. And for all that, I thank you for your service, truly. But what we also see is people being just taken away who are just regular day workers. The waitress who worked for 14 years at some coffee shop, and everybody's like, oh, you know what? We voted to get rid of the bad people, you know, the people you were just talking about, but not Carol. What's going on there? Don't you think it's been a little heavy handed? Don't you think you've picked up a bunch of people who shouldn't be picked up at all? It doesn't seem like it was done with a scalpel.

[D]

What I think about every day is we prioritize the worst first and the numbers show we do it. What I've said from day one, if you're in the country league, you're not off the table. You know why? Because there are millions of people standing in line, taking their tests, doing the background investigations, paying their fees to be part of the greatest nation on earth. If you want to be a part of the greatest nation on earth, there's a right way and wrong way to do it. If you like it or not. The ones who are here illegally cheated the system. They moved themselves to the front of the line and they've overwhelmed the immigration court system back nine, 10 years. Which means that people who are really trying to come here the right way are sitting in the back of the bus. Right? It's just like what people don't talk about these 10 million, 10.5 million that came to the border on Biden. Well, they're asylum seekers. What people don't understand, if you look at immigration court data over the last 10 years, nearly nine out of 10 of them will get an order removal because they don't qualify for support asylum. They're not escaping fear and persecution from the home government because of race, religion, political affiliation. They're coming here for a better life. And I get that. But while they're clogging up the system and cheating the system, there are literally thousands of people in this world that really are escaping fear and persecution from their home countries that are sitting in back of the bus. So there's a reason we're a nation of laws. And you know, if you or people don't like what ISIS doing, they go scream at Congress we're enforcing laws that they enacted.

[A]

Well, I hope it all gets better. Thank you for coming here and explaining it. I appreciate it, Tom. And ask the president to leave me on one More week. I got a really funny bit next Friday. I appreciate it. Thank you very much, Tom Holman. Now, let's meet our panel. Okay. Hey, just one more week. I got a funny bit next Friday. Okay. He is a former senator from West Virginia whose new book is called Dead Center In Defense of Common Sense. Joe Manchin holding up his book. There you go. And she is an MSNBC senior political analyst and a contributor to the Pod Save America podcast. Our returning champion, Alex Wagner is here. Very kind of you.

[C]

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[A]

So, but let's not bury the lead. Let's just get first into the stunning, breathtaking level of hypocrisy about cancel culture. Because apparently cancel culture. And then I do want to get into how complicit the left is in, you know, because everything, nothing happens in a vacuum. And we'll get to it. What?

[B]

You and I are not that far apart on what's going on.

[A]

Yeah, well, we'll find out. But I mean, it does seem like cancel culture is really not about left or right. It's just about who has the power. And if you have the power, you can do it. So let's just you do your thing on this. And then I'll vomit.

[B]

We'll build. No.

[A]

Really.

[C]

You start.

[B]

Let me Start on this one. And, Bill, let me just say that three, I think four days ago, the President said, when he said that this person, this young person who's accused of assassination basically is raised in a good family, all the way, brought up until he's about 15 years old and he got radicalized by the Internet. We do nothing to reel in the Internet. We do nothing on social media. We do nothing on cable. But if you're in the mainstream or if you freedom of speech, you have guardrails, you can't holler fire. You can't basically slander someone without a repercussion. If the President really, truly, and I'm begging him, reel in, put section 230 to the side, put the same guardrails that you have on freedom of speech, and that'll change. It'll calm it down a little bit. You can't say on whatever platform you're on, and that platform will be held responsible and accountable if they let it go on and does damage or harm to someone.

[A]

Yeah. Free speech is not absolute. I have a list. You can't slander, libel, direct threats, porn, copyright infringement, inciting violence.

[B]

Put all that on.

[A]

We can't do any of that. Think about when AI not what Jimmy Kimmel did.

[C]

Yeah. And, hey, I think we're missing a little bit of the point. The President of the United States said explicitly, jimmy's next. And then his SEC chair went out and channeled his best goodfellas impression, said, we could do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way. I mean, without the accent.

[A]

What is the hard way, by the way?

[C]

The hard way, I guess, is, you know, the FCC getting involved, but instead basically called the Sinclair and the affiliates out to make trouble, basically for ABC and abc Cadence. ABC caved because ABC had caved before because Bob Iger had already paid Trump effectively $15 million as an apology for something George Steppinopoulos said. These guys have decided that the spinelessness is their active stance.

[A]

It's funny, when they fired me, Ari Fleischer was asked in the press room about it, and he said, americans need to watch what they say. And everybody was like, ooh, that's so quaint that that was scandal. And everybody was like, oh, no, Ari. Flight, that's too far. Americans don't need to watch what they say. And now, I mean, these people do not understand free speech at all. I mean, listen to Mike Pence. The First Amendment of the Constitution protects against government censorship of individuals. The First Amendment, though, does not protect entertainers who say Crass or thoughtless things. The fuck yeah, it does. What are you talking about? Doesn't protect crass or thoughtless things. Even England would not go for that.

[C]

Well. And Brendan Carr has been like, going on podcasts in the time since Jimmy's been taken off the air, saying, this is about political ideology. I mean, like, give me a break. This wasn't about whatever Jimmy Kimmel said on Monday. This is about silencing people who are critics of this administration.

[A]

But here's Pam Bondi. There's free speech and then there's hate speech. No, hate. That's the whole point, is that free speech means we defend the speech we hate. The standard test is Nazis marching in Skokie, a town full of Holocaust survivors. The Supreme Court says you can do. If that's not right up to the line on what is, in what were the threat, Direct threats and inciting violence. That is right up to there. And they said, no, if you want to have a country with free speech, you let them. And this guy's talking about crass comments from.

[B]

Let me just say something on this. But, you know, I've always said this. I take constructive criticism well because it's helped me. It's helped me not make mistakes and repeat them over and helped me basically how I would say things and how I approach things. But the press has been.

[A]

Well, I hate your tie.

[C]

I love it.

[A]

I love it. No, I'm kidding.

[D]

I'm kidding.

[A]

Beautiful. I'm just.

[B]

I wasn't even going to wear a tie.

[A]

If I thought for you, I would. They said, thank you very much.

[C]

He dressed up for you.

[A]

Yeah, I appreciate it.

[B]

You know, Ted Cruz, at least Ted Cruz said this. This guy. The FCC is crazy. You can't do that. Get rid of him.

[A]

Right. Well, okay. Here's the ultimate irony, though. Charlie Kirk said hate speech does not exist legally in America. By the way, I've always been on the same page. Look at the tapes. Over the decades, this has always been my thing. I never believed in the concept of hate crimes or hate speech. It's a thought crime. We didn't used to have it. They changed it, the liberals and, you know, so I've always been what I think. Doesn't matter what side. Hate speech does not exist legally in America, says Charlie Kirk. There's ugly speech, there's gross speech, there's evil speech, and all of it is protected by the First Amendment. Keep America free. Could you guys at least honor the person you're insisting that we honor by honoring his words?

[C]

Well, and the Administration's wizard of Oz, Tucker Carlson has come out and said that this is. He said that what Pam Bondi said isn't okay. Megyn Kelly also said what Pam Bondi said isn't okay. They haven't weighed in on Kimmel, but I am eager to hear their thoughts because I think it is an extension of what Pam Bondi was talking about.

[A]

Well, I mean, I think we moved the goalpost so much now because of what Jimmy Kimmel got fired for, that we forget that as abhorrent. I at least feel it's abhorrent. A lot of people in this country apparently don't. It would be to mock somebody's death, even if you disagreed with them. Completely abhorrent, but not illegal. I'm sorry. And this idea that they have, that they seem to be pushing, that we can't even utter his name like he's the Prophet Muhammad. Peace and blessings be upon him. No, this is. And again, we should call out those people. Somebody on your network got shit canned. Massacre.

[C]

I think the official term was let go.

[A]

Okay, this is. Matthew Dowd said, you can't be saying these awful words and then not expect awful actions to take place. Yes, you can. I do expect that. I do not expect awful actions to take place. I think this is awful. When you open this window like, I didn't like what he said and what he said was vile and this and that. Irrelevant. Irrelevant. We don't shoot people in this country and we don't defend it and we don't mock their death.

[B]

Brother Waterman, you can't.

[A]

You just.

[B]

There's no place for violence in this country of any kind. But when there is violence, to have it in the political arena. The hardest thing I've got right now, Bill, is getting people to run for office. People, good quality people, character raised properly in for the right reason, putting the country before themselves or before the party, that's hard to find. And when you do find them, they said, I don't think I want to go through all that scrutiny and people beating on me and calling me names and my family and all this. I said, that's a small price to pay for a wonderful country that we live in, a wonderful life. You have an opportunity for, but someone has to do it. And when you have a representative form of government that we have, our democracy is based on, we are going to govern ourselves. We can do that. It's an experiment. 240 plus years in the making. 200 years have been pretty good. We had a little rough spot in the civil War. But we got through that.

[A]

Let's back that up and say you are a politician going for a joke, which they're bad at. I was not saving him, my dear. I'm not hurting. He said something that they're gonna jump on because he was downplayed. I know you didn't mean. I know you think that this.

[B]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay. I can tell right now. Exactly.

[A]

Just quash it now.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Because this bullshit has to stop. This gotcha. Don't go after Joe Manchin because he inartfully said a bad joke. Joe Manchin thinks slavery was horrible and the Civil War was great. Was good that we fought it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I'm glad we cleared that up.

[A]

Say it more enthusiastically.

[B]

Absolutely. It's horrible. Okay. I said self governing has been going on for 240 years plus.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. And we've had some rough spots. We've always gotten through it. We've always gotten through that. We've always come back as a country. But when people quit caring, the only people left is those who don't care. And when you have people that won't participate, won't run for office and now they're scared for their life to be involved in political discourse. This is unbelievable.

[C]

Yeah. Don't want to be journalists anymore. I feel like nobody wants to do anything.

[B]

Well, at least you have a job for a while, Kai.

[C]

Do I? That's up for.

[A]

Do any of us? I mean.

[C]

Yeah, do any of us?

[A]

We'll see you next week. But just. I'll tell you something, it's so interesting. I'll tell you. I'll tell you a journalist who's on TV who did not get fired, who said something you might think is controversial. But he's still there. Brian Kilmeade. He's on Fox News. This is the morning show where they usually are wishing Happy birthday to 100 year olds. They were talking about the homeless. His co host says a lot of them don't want to take the programs to get the help. Yes, that's true. This is an issue that should be debated. Either you. I'm saying to the homeless, either you take the resources that we're going to give you or you're going to be locked up in jail. Well, I wouldn't lock them in up in jail, but I agree they shouldn't be on the street, Brian says, or just kill them. And this apparently not controversial.

[C]

This is muster.

[A]

Not controversial.

[C]

Well, I dare say, but we live in a moment when maligning, insulting or otherwise Calling for the death of the poor, the weakest people of color isn't exactly punished by.

[A]

I never heard anyone call for the death of them before. Be clear here. This is new. But just the fact that it just. Oh, just the angel of death just passed right over that one at 8:30 in the morning. Well, okay, so listen, civility is gone.

[B]

Someone said, I hear all these rumors, we're going to have war and we're going to have basically crusades. The only crusade we really need is a crusade for civility. And it starts at the top. And I would ask President Trump. There's one person that can start it and he can basically start bringing the country together because we cannot continue to divide us the way we are and he can't throw more fuel on the fire. He could say something, you know, we're going to tamp this down. We're going to come together as a country. I'm the leader of the country. I said, Mr. President, we need a comforter. We need somebody that will comfort this country.

[A]

Joe, not even everyone believes we should. I saw Marjorie Taylor Greene this week tweeting about how we need a national divorce. And she has done this before and I looked it up. She is not the only one who has said that. Benjamin Shapiro talks about maybe a friendly separation would be the way to go. Sarah Silverman is talking about it.

[B]

Wouldn't it be any worse than it.

[A]

Is a USA one, USA two? Candace Owens says you don't need a bloody war to secede. You could just do it. Glenn Beck said he's for succession. Theirs. See, but this is how you get into the. Then who gets the name? Who gets to call themselves America? And this is where we get to the point where we need the lawyers. We are going to have a national divorce. We bring in the lawyers and decide who gets. What would you like to hear? Okay, we're just going to decide which side, as they do in a divorce settlement, for example. The Democrats will get Broadway. The Republicans get Branson. That's just, that's just fair. The Republicans will get the mullet. The Democrats get the man bun. Yeah. Yes, that's. The Republicans get the nra. Democrats get NWA Yeah. The Democrats get Barnes and Noble. Republicans get Barnes. Democrats get gluten free vegan foods. Republicans get flavor. Democrats get the gay bars. Republicans get the airport men's rooms. Republicans get Honky Tonk Badonkadonk. And Democrats get what? I mean, that just, that seems completely fair. Republicans get daytime South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham. Democrats get his nighttime alter ego. Myrtle beach. And Democrats get a black Captain America, and Republicans get a white jazz musician. All right, so you mentioned Ted Cruz, and you're right. Ted Cruz said, I hate what Jimmy Kimmel said. But if the government gets in the business of saying, we don't like what you, the media have said, we're going to ban from the airwaves. It will end badly for conservatives, I would add. Ted, for the country really should be even more. But at least he did.

[B]

He's right on. He's right on.

[A]

He's right. And this is the point I'm always trying to make here. You need to talk to people. I've had Ted here. I've had them all here. I did my podcast with Charlie Clark, Kirk. I'm glad I did. I'm glad I got to know him. I always say it, everybody's a monster till you talk to them.

[B]

Let me give you one story real quick. I have a boat on the river, Potomac river, and I try to bring Democrats and Republicans together. It's what? A little boat on the river.

[A]

A boat on the river? Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Which I stay on when I'm there because things get bad, I can cut the ropes and go.

[A]

You live in a boat on the river?

[B]

I do. On paternity.

[A]

Just like every detective.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, let me just tell you. So one night, I had people coming, okay? Different Democrat and Republicans. I had Tom Harkin there from Iowa, Most beautiful person. Good friend of mine. Pretty far left, but he's just a great guy. And then I'm talking to Tom. He said, Joe, 30 years, I've never been on the river, and I can't wait for tonight. And he says, tom, glad to have you. Gave him a glass of wine. About that time, Ted Cruz started walking down the ramp to get on the boat. Tom wanted to jump off. And I said, tom, no, no, we can't. No, no, we're in this now. Come on, just have another glass of wine. Everything will be fine. So I said, untie the ropes, quick. We got to get out of here. So we started out, and I swear to God, before the night was over, the two were talking, became friends, and did an amendment the next day. You're right. Nobody knows anybody. We spend no time together at all. You understand? We only have one bipartisan lunch a year.

[A]

He was going to jump off the boat.

[B]

I'm not sure he wanted off a boat, and I wanted to get out off the dock. Okay. He was. He wanted off the boat.

[A]

Maybe. I have a helicopter waiting to, like.

[C]

Lift him, I guess. Can I just say, like I am. First of all, God bless you for doing this work of trying to bring people together. And there needs to be more of that. But let's not ignore this. I mean, we have a precedent. Who less than 24 hours after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, was blaming the radical left, was not trying to bring the country together. Who has built a platform on grievance and division, who encourages virulent behavior and activity and rhetoric, and who has instilled in his entire administration a punitive streak and who has given light and rise to people who want to highlight the most destructive parts of our society and who want our differences to define us.

[A]

Okay, but here's a test now. Now say this about the other side.

[C]

Wait a second.

[A]

Because it could also be said, but just do it just as a test. Can you do it?

[C]

Yes. Joe Biden did not do that. Barack Obama did not do that.

[A]

Okay. No, no, no, no, you're right. The presidents did not. Absolutely.

[C]

But it matters. He is the head of the party and he has co opted the Republican Party.

[A]

But there's lots of people wearing free Luigi T shirts out there. There is a formidable bunch of people who think. Who are very comfortable with the idea of eat the rich. And if you are not the kind of person we think is.

[C]

Absolutely. That exists. Absolutely. That exists. And that has to do with people feeling outside the system. They are filled with rage. We have a society that's splintering. There are no common spaces anymore. We've lost community. People are tied up in social media instead of talking to each other. I mean, it's a whole host of things. And I'm not excusing that kind of behavior by a long shot. But let's not pretend like the people in power, the people who run the legislative and the executive branch and are at the Supreme Court are fomenting division. They are not trying to bring us together.

[A]

Okay, I agree. You're not.

[C]

That matters.

[A]

It matters. It does. Of course, it's.

[B]

Let me ask you this. What do you think? If, if just The Democrats says, Mr. President, we want to work with you, Help us calm this down. Help us heal the country. We want to work with you and secure the borders. We made a mistake. Can you work with me on legal immigration so we can have a country that we have today in the future? That's what has to be done. But you can't just tighten.

[A]

The first thing you have to do is talk to them. I'm telling you, talk to everybody.

[B]

Like we're with the president. You've been with the President.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

He's very accommodating.

[A]

I saw this weekend, last weekend, Jay Z and Beyonce had dinner in Atlantic City with Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. Do we not talk to them now either?

[C]

No, because it's an issue they talk about.

[A]

Oh, no, they get a pass.

[C]

I mean, that matters.

[A]

All the issues matter. And this is how any of them or if we're going to make any progress with this.

[B]

But he's your president for three more years. He's my president, he's your president, he's all of our presidents. My job, if I'm in a position as a United States senator or congressperson, is to do everything I can to make my president successful. But never be afraid to speak truth to power. But you have to do it respectfully. You have to be respecting that office and the people that put you there, which is that we're self governing. Okay? We made a decision. We chose you. If we chose you, then I don't care. I'm not going to fight you. I want to work with you. I want you to succeed. And I said, Mr. President, we need that leadership now. We need you to step up. And if the Democrats. I said calling him names, it's just like throwing fuel on a fire. It's not going to make him any better. But individually, when you were with him. I've been with him individually. Most accommodating. Gracious. You can talk to him. He's engaging.

[A]

He's much more self aware than he lets on in public. They have this thing where when they go out in public, it has to be all war, all the time. I'm not saying that's a good way to handle it either. I'm just saying it's more complicated than that. And you're good. They have all the power. You're not going to do anything by just doing the what the. I mean, the left does have this bad attitude of go, no contact. I mean, that's a big thing with your family.

[B]

And my little family raised. My grandmother took everybody in back in the 50s, there was no social services. She made us little kids, white little kids.

[A]

They believe in not talking to members of your family. I mean, at the Emmys, would it have killed someone to get up there? Since they all want to talk about their politics, Would it killed somebody to get up there, not give a speech about how much they like Charlie Kirk just to say we had a political assassination this week and that's wrong and we should. They would have been booed off the stage because he was on the wrong team. So you're not even allowed to say that. Could you imagine if a left wing person was assassinated that week? The whole show would have been about that.

[C]

I just, I mean, is that not true?

[A]

Can't you admit that?

[C]

I think this needs. The Charlie Kirk assassination needs to be reframed as an issue of how our democracy actually functions and survives. We cannot be assassinating people who are different from us, who believe different things full stop. Charlie Kirk's assassination is as bad for Democrats as it should be for repo as it is for Republicans. It is not. Okay.

[A]

Okay?

[C]

And like everybody needs to get on that same page. And you can, you can, you do not have to agree with what he said or what he believed in, but you have to mourn what his death represents. Yeah, Right. And that is not a good thing.

[A]

And him as a human. As a human.

[C]

There has been so much hate and vitriol spewed from the top of this administration and has infected the entire party. Yeah, I understand why people don't have the stomach for it sometimes, but I'm.

[B]

Telling you, coming from both sides, it really is.

[A]

It is not the same thing.

[B]

It's not. When it comes to.

[C]

It's not a concerted. It is not. There's not. There is more of a.

[A]

They always take it to a worse level. I mean, yes, there was cancel culture on the left, but it didn't come this much from the government. Yes, Biden did put his thumb on the scale a little with COVID and make social media not say some of the things that we now know are true about that. But generally they didn't do that. But Trump gets in office, of course they're always going to take it to level 10. But before we run out of time, I do want to ask you because I think you're going to run for president again, probably. Okay, well let's. I'll take that as a. I'll take that as a non denial.

[B]

Let me just tell you, our dear friend, this morning, this morning I had Schwarzenegger and he and I were talking, he said, bill's my good friend. He said, now Bill's going to be.

[A]

He never has done this show. We've asked him.

[B]

He's going to do this show he wants to do.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I've asked him a billion times.

[B]

He said now.

[A]

He says now Bill, he's very busy for 30 years.

[B]

He said, if Bill help. He said, now Bill will help you sell some books. He said now before he gets off, it's about selling the book. This book tells you exactly.

[A]

I'm dying to get here.

[B]

How most of us are raised. We are who you are, but where you come from, how you're raised and who raised you. And be able to sit in a pinnacle of power and be able to look at the President, said, Mr. President, I'm so sorry. I don't believe that. And I can't go home and sell it. Doesn't make sense. I wasn't raised that way. That's tough when the president says, the country needs you. And I had to grab his hand back and say, the country needs you, too. Mr. President needs us all. We're all in this together. And this little book here will tell you how to do it. My daughter, Heather.

[A]

Okay, so. But I'm with you. You gotta tell.

[B]

Arnold's watching. He said he's gonna watch tonight. So you wanna talk to Arnold.

[A]

So you're trying to get the nomination of the. Not the Democratic Party anymore.

[B]

You're an Independent. I think there should be an Independent party. I think there should be an American party.

[A]

The Democratic Party seems to be going the way of the Democratic Socialist Party. That's a different party. Bernie Sanders always said, I'm not a Democrat, I'm a Democrat.

[B]

Exactly right.

[A]

A Democrat Socialist. I caucus with the Democrats. He said he ran as a Democrat, but he's a Democratic soldier now. Mandami in New York, he is a Democratic Socialist, also not a Democrat per se. There in. We only have two parties. So you get in that bin. Bill, here's what you have to just ask. Could I ask the question?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Is this where the Democratic Party is going? Is the whole Democratic Party going to be the Democratic Socialist Party?

[B]

No.

[C]

First of all, we are a long way away from 2028. We are not at 2026. We have not had any party primaries. We are talking about two people have very compelling messaging strategies and have gotten rightfully a lot of attention for them. But don't think that defines a Democratic Party, which, by the way, is at this point, the pro democracy party. It is a tent big enough. It is a tent big enough to have Liz Cheney and aoc. That is unwieldy. It is very, very, very big. And part of the problem is the Democrats have so many people inside the tent and so much chaos happening on the political landscape, they do not know which direction they're marching in. But woe to anybody that is trying to write the epitaph for the Democratic Party.

[B]

Well, let me just say this. I was a Democrat all my life. They better Figure out how they lost people like me. Okay? And the only thing I have said. When you quit worrying about the working person, their working conditions, you're worried more about a person that's able bodied and capable of working, that won't work, versus me, who will work. There's something wrong. And they lost him.

[A]

All right. Gotta leave it there. Thank you very much. Time for new rules, everybody. New rules. Thank you. Thank you. I think it's been a great last show. All right, new rule. Some of them are. We must tell the headline writers at InStyle magazine who wrote Priyanka Chopra goes topless under her plunging blazer, that it's not topless if we can't see your tits. As if all women aren't topless underneath their clothing. Not to start a scandal, but right now, now I'm bottomless underneath these pants. New rule. Just because penguins look like they're wearing tuxedos doesn't mean they want to get married. There's been a lot of romanticizing penguin love in popular culture. But what scientists recently learned is most penguins are monogamous only for the season. Then they find a new mate each year. Not to mention all the penguins who never marry because they get cold feet. Cute. Cute. No one's gonna get fired for that one, huh? All right, new rule. It's time we admit that one reason our kids test scores are going down is that we no longer make playgrounds designed to weed out the stupid ones. New rule. If ducking down when you get out of a helicopter is the only thing keeping the blade from chopping your head off, then maybe it's best just to wait till the fucking thing comes to a stop. Call me paranoid, but giant whirring blades scare me. I won't even masturbate under a ceiling fan. I mean, when you're on a plane, they don't even let you stand up until you're at a full stop at the gate. But helicopters? Yeah, you're good to go. Watch your head. Watch it roll off your neck. You know, new rules. Stop expecting me to remember which of my 27 passwords went with your particular website, which I haven't visited since 2017. It's like I'm on a 70s game show called Locked Out. Bill Maher from Rivervale, New Jersey. You get three guesses or you get lots of. Okay, is it my birthday? College graduation year? Exclamation point. Sorry. No. Okay, is it my pet's name? Favorite sports team 69? No, not that. Well, then fuck off. Stop making me prove I'm me. If the Russians stole my identity so they can pay my parking tickets, I give up. Their long game is much better than mine. And finally, new rule. We have to create a special five stages of grief just for mass shootings. The one we have anger, denial, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. That's fine for personal grief, but if it's political at all, we should acknowledge our five stages really are. Someone on your side definitely did it. This theory I saw on the Internet proves I'm right. Fuck you. You're why everything is terrible. I know you are. What am I? And please don't be the same ethnic group as. What I'd like to do now is prove to you what a fool's errand it is to try and connect today's brand of nut who commits political murder to the other side. Take Ryan Ruth. He's the lying in the bushes weirdo who's on trial now for attempted assassination of President Trump. And he's representing himself. Always a great strategy. Right up there with doing your own dentistry. He's staring. He started his courtroom presentation by saying, why are we here? Is it not to care for one another and to hold one another? Because nothing says care for one another like pointing a gun at someone's head while they're golfing. Like all these killers, his politics was all over the map. He somehow supported both Bernie Sanders and Vivek Ramaswamy, two guys who you couldn't sit next to each other at a wedding. And his choice in 2016 was Trump. And then he tried to kill him. So I guess he's a swing voter. His politics are so in the weeds. He was literally in the weeds. Trump's other would be assassin, Thomas Crooks, aka McLovin, had donated money to Democrats. So Republicans said, well, there you go. A liberal who took it too far and wanted Trump dead. Except investigators believe Crooks left hundreds of social media comments that were anti immigrant. Then why shoot the most anti immigrant president we ever had? And Crooks, a registered Republican, had also been researching Biden's travel schedule. So it looks like he would have been just as happy to shoot him or Princess Kate, who it seems he'd been casing as a potential target. So he was the worst kind of lone gunman, a slut. On his voter registration, he checked. It's complicated. That's why this is such a tedious game. Always hunting for evidence that whatever killer it is had. Whatever politics are the opposite of yours. Trying to prove that. Because this week's chinless incel voted for Dr. Oz. It means something. It doesn't. What this is really about is a hole in the soul and broken families and gun glorification and getting brain raped by the Internet. David DePape was, according to the Chronicle, a hemp jewelry maker and pro nudity activist from San Francisco. Would you peg that guy as likely to break into Nancy Pelosi's house and try to kill her husband with a hammer? Well, he did, because he also believed in QAnon and Pizzagate and the Jews bankrolled Hitler because he's not antifa or Maga. He's gaga. So was Cody Ballmer who set fire to the house of the governor of Pennsylvania, as one does when you're fed up with politics. Cody sure was. He once shared a meme that said both Democrats and Republicans would rather argue with each other than work to solve the problems we are facing. Exactly, Cody. A pox on both their houses, which I'll now start burning down. This is not about politics. Have you people really never had a bipolar girlfriend? Last month brought us the Minnesota Church Killer, Robin Westman, born Robert Westman. So naturally the conservatives were like, see? Trans. That's some of that out there liberal shit. See, this is what you get. Well, no, that's not why we got what we got. Trans was not the cause of this. Now maybe Robin really was trans. Or maybe trans was one in a series of solutions that she tried on to fix her chronic unhappiness. The joke is on you if you think you can decipher someone's manifesto that made about as much sense as Britney Spears Instagram. She displayed a Defend Equality sticker with the LGBT flag, which is very woke, but then also spoke of her hatred for filthy Zionist Jews. But then again, so did everyone at the Emmys. And now Tyler Robinson. And again we have to play the game where we each day find a tidbit about another confused knowledge free. I want you to hurt like I do, asshole. Searching for a reason to do something insane so he can LOL over watching the supposedly sane people try to make sense of it. A kid brought up conservative in Utah who looks like every white kid who holds a rifle on a Republican's Christmas card shoots a conservative. Was he rebelling against his family? Very possibly. Confused feelings about his trans relationship? Not unlikely. Plus violence in movies and getting used to murdering things from hunting and putting kids on Prozac when they're 12 and seed oils and whatever. Politics. I wish this was about politics. It's actually so much worse. It's about nihilism, about not believing anything about living in an online world. That's one big inside joke about how stupid and useless is the America that conventional people of both parties are still living in. This kid cared about furries, not foreign policy. Because in America, life isn't black and white. It's 50 shades of cray. All right, that's it. I want to thank my guests this week and every week over the last 23 years. Maybe Joe Manchin, Alex Wagner, Tom Holman, Plebe Random drops Every Monday on YouTube. Or listen whenever you get your podcast. Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.

[C]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com.