← Real Time with Bill Maher
Real Time with Bill Maher
Ep. #725: Ezekiel Emanuel, Douglas Murray, Paul Rieckhoff
01:00:40
Real Time with Bill Maher, News, Jokes, Politics, Overtime
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- [00:00]
A
Taxact knows filing taxes can be confusing. So we have live experts on hand who can help answer any questions you may have. Questions like, can I claim my SUV is my home office? If I answer work emails in my car? If I adopted 12 dogs this year, can I list them as dependents? And am I doing this right or am I doing this very, very wrong? Our experts have the answers to those questions and many others. Tax Act. Let's get them over with. This episode is brought to you by Fandango. People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is, when a great movie hits the screen, you show up, you stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be no cinema magic, no shared moments. So head to fandango.com to get tickets, stream or rent or buy top movies and series. Fandango loves fans. Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher. Thank you very much. How you doing, people? Thank you. Excuse me, my glasses are fogged up. Thank you, people. Thank you. Thank you very much. I know. Why you. I know, I know, I know. All right. We got a big show. I know. It's very exciting because it's 4 o' clock here, Pacific time. We're about an hour from the splashdown of Artemis 2. And I think everyone on Earth, we have the same question for the astronauts. Do you have any gas?
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B
No.
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A
I mean, at a time when there's a lot of tension going on here on Earth, this is kind of the feel good story that has everybody excited, everybody wherever I go. Bill, did you see the photos? Yeah, I saw them. Earth as I've always seen it. I'm sorry, I don't mean. I don't mean to be the wet blanket on the moon. I just don't get it. I mean, everybody's like, you know, if we're on the moon, we can get to Mars. I don't want to go there either, okay? There's nothing out there except other rocks. Let's fix the shit show here on Earth. But I will tell you this. When the astronauts get back, the world will look so differently than when they left a week ago when we had won the war in Iran. Now we don't. Well, actually, we have a ceasefire. We have a ceasefire, whatever that means. Yes. We came to an agreement with Iran. We agreed to stop bombing them and they agreed to stop being bombed. So, you know, it was kind of mutual. And, well, this happened after Trump. He runs this war by his posts, you know, and he posted that he was going to wipe out their whole civilization. And he said, you know what? I am not bluffing. Did you see what I did to Atlantic City? Oh, I kid the President, but oh, no, this guy, this guy Trump character, he ain't playing there. I mean, he also posted on Easter. Easter, he posted Open the fucking straight. That's not my fucking. That's his. Open the fucking straight. You crazy bastards will be living in hell. And then he finished it by writing, I swear to God, praise be Allah. But. That was just to appeal to Gen Z. But, you know, it's still all about this Strait of Hormuz where we get all the oil, we need the oil. And, you know, apparently this agreement we have, we have to save face and not, you know, kill everybody in Iran by pretending that it's open, although it's kind of not. Iran is charging a toll. It's $2 million to get in, same as Disneyland. So. But have no fear, J.D. vance, Vice President, Wait, he's on his way, or maybe I guess he's there in Pakistan to work out a deal. That's where they're having the peace deal over there in Pakistan. And with Vance out of the country, Speaker Mike Johnson becomes second in line to kiss Trump's ass. So that's an important part of the. But, yeah, that's who's at the table over there in Islamabad, Pakistan, Vance and the Iranians. And I guess it's hard to sit across from the table with, you know, people who have called Trump reprehensible and an idiot and could be America's Hitler. And that's just J.D. vance. He said those things. I'm not making that up. Oh, boy. I tell you, Trump is really getting it from both sides now. Of course, the Democrats, you know, they won't start talking about impeaching him again. But even on the right, Trump, some of his historically biggest supporters are abandoning him and criticizing him. Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, and Trump, he fired back at all of them this week. He said they are people with low IQs. Stupid people. They know it. Their family knows it. Everybody knows it. You know, he's right. They are. They're stupid people. They fell for his bullshit. How bright could they be? So. Things are so bad now in the administration that they're trying to talk about Epstein. I'm not making this up. Melania came out this week. Now, Trump says he didn't know she was going to do. I don't know. But Melania came out and at a press conference and said the lies about her Epstein must end. And. No one knew what this statement meant or why she was saying it now, but Amazon bought the rights to it for $78 million. And oh, and then, and then we were off this week. We missed the story. The case of Brian Noemi, you know, Kristi Noem's husband, nice guy, just trying to make a business in the insurance industry. Found out he is. I don't know exactly what, but he's a guy who likes to wear big fake tits. That's what we know, as the Bible tells us. And today the story proceeded. We found out the Delhi Mail, of course, Delhi Mail, they released audio of Brian Gnomes dominatrix. Apparently, he was very much the confidant of this. This is who we really talk to a lot, this dominatrix. And he had been telling her that he very much wanted to take the. Do the surgery and get the hormones and become a woman. He is now leading in the polls for the Democratic nomination for Tina Trump. And it's a. It's a, you know, I feel for this guy. He's a nice guy, weird life, you know, because he wanted the big fake tits, but he also wanted to be humiliated for having him. That's what a dominatrix does. You pay them to humiliate you. One time she told Brian Noem to drink from the dog bowl. And he said, that's a little dangerous around here. All right, we've got a great show. We have Paul Rykoff and Douglas Murray. But first up, he is a bioethicist, an oncologist, and the bestselling author of the new book, eat your ice cream. Six simple rules for a long and healthy life. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel. Doc, how are you?
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C
How are you?
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A
Good to see you. Nice to see you again. All right. How are you, Doc? How's the doctor?
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C
The doctor is great.
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A
Really?
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C
Yeah. And my brother will tell you he's my doctor, so that's the proof.
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A
Okay, well, we'll talk about your brother later. So you were involved before I get into the book, in Obamacare. I mean, that's how mostly we know you. You're one of the leading people we see on TV talking about health matters. And you worked very much on the Obamacare situation, and that's certainly been in the news a lot lately. People lost coverage. A lot of people also say the coverage kind of stinks. I'm sure there's a lot of blame going to either side about that. Where is Obamacare? What do we need to do?
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C
We're starting off politically, then I just.
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A
Well, I mean, come on, that's people's lives.
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C
Okay, so look, we got 25 million people insured. We saved the federal government through Medicare more than almost $4 trillion. So those were the positives all that time Republicans were trying to repeal it without a plan about what to do for people who didn't have insurance or for the costs in the country. And then Trump comes in and he gives a big tax break, some of that $4 trillion to the thousand billionaires in the country, and he throws a bunch of people off Medicaid and out of the exchanges. Do we need reform? 100%. I'm the first person to say the system sucks. It's broken.
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A
Yeah. People say that I never understood the concept of the deductible, and they say, I have Obamacare, but I can't use it. But I don't get the concept that, okay, I have insurance. They pay for things. Except when they don't. Yes, except when I actually still pay for it.
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C
Need it. I need it.
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A
I don't get that. Right.
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C
It's meant to persuade you not to overuse health care where it's discretionary. The problem is, at 5,000, $7,000, it's not discretionary. It stops you from using necessary care for people who have an illness. There should be no deductible.
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A
They.
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C
Look, I'm an oncologist. My patients don't decide whether they're going to get chemo or not, whether they're going to get an MRI or not. I decide that. Why should they pay a deductible? It's crazy.
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A
All right, so let's get to your book.
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C
That's all the politics we're talking about.
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A
Well, I mean, it crosses over. I mean, health care is politics.
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C
Yes, I agree.
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A
Why are you giving me anxiety about this?
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C
So I can treat it and charge it.
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A
Okay, but I mean, now there's some truth. I mean, a lot of what you say is common sense, and there's a lot of stuff that isn't so common sense going. I mean, I feel like a big theme of your book is anti. Exotic. So many exotic traits. I mean, I have this ring, the aura ring. Do you? What?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Is it bullshit?
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C
It just increases your anxiety? Did I get a good night's sleep? Did I not get a good night's sleep?
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A
I mean, that's the thing.
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C
This is how I tell Bill, I get up in the morning, do I
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B
feel well or not feel well?
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A
That's the amazing. I mean, sometimes it says, I got a good night's sleep and I don't feel so good. And sometimes I feel like I got a good night's sleep and it says I don't. And then I got this thing, you know, this mattress. I forget what they call it. I just got it. Andrew Huberman sent it to me. It's like it fills with a little bit of water and adjusts your temperature while you sleep. Do you know about these things?
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B
No.
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A
Okay.
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C
I use a regular mattress.
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A
I know, but sometimes I think it kind of did help. But, you know, sometimes it doesn't agree with the ring. So now the bed is arguing with the ring and I'm arguing with both of them.
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C
That's why I don't recommend using the ring. Some people find it helpful, you know, some people are quantitative. They went to MIT and they actually think all those numbers mean something. I mostly don't think that.
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A
Right. I mean, if you feel good when I don't get enough sleep, I feel like shit.
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C
Exactly. Your thinking is clouded.
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A
Right.
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C
You don't have any energy.
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A
You just feel like shit. Yeah. Okay. Don't feel like shit.
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C
That's a very technical term. I know.
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A
And I feel like, especially when you live out here in California, you know, I mean, if I did everything that everybody suggested I do, I would do nothing all day.
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C
That's right.
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A
But do. Seriously, I'd get in the cold plunge, then I'd do the sauna. Then I'd, of course, walk barefoot on grass.
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C
And what about the red light? And the red light.
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A
The red light. I'd do some red light therapy, of course.
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C
And the peptide.
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A
Oh, absolutely. Meanwhile, Keith Richards is fine. But seriously, you know, I mean, Bill,
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C
that was the main reason I wrote the book. First of all, lots of people ask me, what should I do? Should I drink alcohol? Not drink alcohol, what? Diet, et cetera. So I wanted to give people advice. And the second thing is to say all these people who are giving you this tons of information and making you obsessed about it, forget about it. It is common sense. It's six rules, Right? Don't be a schmuck. Don't do stupid stuff. Right. Have friends and talk to friends and talk to people you happen to meet. Your barista, your Uber driver. Keep your mind mentally sharp. Do things that are gonna challenge you, to keep you sharp because you don't wanna be demented. Eat well. Right? Exercise. Do the three kinds of exercise.
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A
Eat well. The name of your book is Eat Ice Cream.
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C
Oh, ice cream is very good for you.
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A
It's not.
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B
It is.
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A
It said, look, look, they did A study.
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C
They did a study in 2014. And the thing that prevented type 2 diabetes, the most. Ice cream. Plus, it makes you happy.
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A
Okay, I haven't had ice cream in 30 years. I can be happy without ice cream. You can? Yes.
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C
But most of us love ice cream and we should indulge.
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A
Okay, well. Okay, well, but that's. It's a no. That's a bullshit argument. You know? Yes. I mean, everything is a trade off between present happiness and future happiness.
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C
I agree.
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A
When you have the ice cream, you're happy in the present and you are gonna pay a price in the future. Let's not deny, of course, there's no penalty for eating shit. And fat. And sugar. Oh, sugar. It's full of sugar. Sugar's the worst thing for you, Doc.
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C
I totally agree with you. Except it's sugar with dairy. And the dairy.
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A
Dairy's bad, too.
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C
I'm a data driven guy. Everything in that book is supported by data and by studies. And that's why I put it in the book, because it is counterintuitive. It is got sugar in it and it's got dairy, including saturated fats. And it turns out it's actually good for you.
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A
Well, liquor has a lot of sugar, too. Is that good for me?
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B
No.
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A
Well,
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C
the answer to that actually turns out to be complicated, which are why I said yes and no. So the fact is it can be good for you if it lubricates your social interactions, which are very, very important. It's not good for you.
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A
Wait a second.
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C
It's not good for you.
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A
It lubricates my social interactions. Let me tell you. I tried rubbing it on the condom. It doesn't work. No. Okay, I agree with.
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C
And too much of it is not good for you. It causes cancer, liver disease, dementia. Not a good thing.
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A
I've seen studies in the past. Like two drinks a day is good for you. It's misleading.
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C
That's too much.
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A
Okay, well, whatever it is, the point of it is 0% of it is actually good for you. It's poison. There used to be a fucking skull on the bottle. Okay, but what the guy.
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C
That's a trade off.
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A
The guy who comes home from work and he's like this and he's so tense. If he has a couple of drinks,
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C
it might be helpful to talk to someone about that too.
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A
Well, but I'm saying he's not gonna die of that kind of anxiety. The drinking can be helpful, but in itself is not. Okay, we agree on that. Let's go to the other thing that you said is like the number one predictor, which I was very surprised. Maybe I shouldn't be, because in this day and age, with cell phones and everything else and people losing contact with humans, you say the number one predictor of good health is socialization.
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D
Yeah.
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A
You know, like dining solo now is like something you see more than ever.
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C
Half the meals are eaten alone in the country, and especially among gen zers, they have like 80% of them eat majority of their meals alone. It's a disaster. We have went from 7% of the population having 0 to 1 friends, close friends, to almost 20% tripling in three decades. That's a disaster. People don't know how to relate to other people. They don't know how to make friends. They don't know how to talk to friends about things that matter to them. And it is the most important thing for a long, healthy and happy life.
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A
And it's just getting worse because, I mean, I don't see that a lot of the kids want to change. I mean, there is a movement, some of them, to get rid of social media, and that's great. And get rid of the phone. One guy.
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C
And we know that's correlated with better mental functioning and feeling better, but for everyone.
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A
I've heard about that. I've heard people say chatgpt is really my best friend now. I mean, I've heard those exact words. That's not good.
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C
No, it isn't good. And it actually portends really bad in the future because it's gonna be bad. First of all, bad cognitive functioning and bad mental health. And we actually have to. We have things we can do here, Bill. We have to protect our kids. They're the most important thing in our society. And one of the things we can do is get rid of phones from all schools all across the country.
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A
We're doing it. We're finally on our way to doing it.
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C
We're finally. Then we have to prohibit social media.
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A
Last thing. I mean, you look like you're very healthy. How old are you now?
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C
Do I have to reveal it?
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A
Oh, come on.
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C
We're about the same age. I'm 68.
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A
Okay, so you said when you were 56, you didn't want to live past 7.
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C
75.
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A
So you got seven years and then. No, what.
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C
What I said is I didn't want any medical treatments, that the purpose of them was to keep me alive. But if I broke my hip, I'd want that fixed. If I got glaucoma or a cataract and I couldn't see I want that fixed. So, yes.
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A
Okay. And you don't believe in retiring. Right? Because.
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C
Right. Bad idea for your cognitive function. It's a bad idea.
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A
But what about people who can't help it? I mean, what about people who are
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C
going to eventually retire? And my point, actually, I make this point in the book in some detail. You have to plan your retirement not just for the money, but for what you're going to do that's going to keep you mentally engaged. Where are you going to volunteer? What hobbies are you going to take up? What are you going to do with other people? How are you going to keep your social network? So what we don't do in this country, we always think about the money. The money, the money. What we have to think about is the brains. The brains, the brains. Because that's what really deteriorates when you retire. And you have to actually think it through and plan it. That's one of the recommendations in the book.
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A
I have done it and I'm going to be doing a lot more social lubricating. Thank you, doc. Great to see you. Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel, ladies and gentlemen. All right, let's meet our panel. Hey. Hey, guys. Okay. He is a national security and political analyst, founder of Independent Veterans of America and host of the podcast Independent Americans with Paul Rykoff. Paul Rykoff is over here and he's a New York close contributor and bestselling author of On Democracies and Death, Israel and the Future of Civilization. Douglas Murray. Great to see you gentlemen. Perfect panel. Just have three guys talking about war. Shall we? Little bro fest here, guys talking war. Because that's what everybody's thinking about now. You and I, I think, were on the same page when this started six weeks ago. I mean, we thought it was the right thing to do to take this shot now to deal with Iran once and for all. Not just because of the nukes, but they did say in their own negotiations that they were weeks away from having 11 bombs. To me, that was pretty clear. Not to mention what they do to their own people. And we just don't think jihadists and people who believe in martyrdom can have nukes.
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B
Okay?
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A
So I thought it was worth taking the shot. Six weeks later. I think we're at a different place because I read your column today. You think we got to finish this no matter what it takes. I was never on that page. I was on the page. This is a great opportunity. Hey, we see them all in one place, we can wipe out the whole leadership at once. It looks like they're Ready for an uprising. Take the shot, Mav. Take the shot. We did it and it didn't work. Now what? Do we cut and run or do we stay the course? I hope Donald Trump is the abandoner he's always been. I hope he is the guy who has never not abandoned anything his life, except his love for tariffs. And I hope he does what America always done. These people who say, you know, we'll get a reputation for cut. We always cut and run. We did it in Vietnam, we did it in Iraq, we did it to the Kurds, we did it in Afghanistan, we did it in Beirut. That's us. No lifeguard on duty. If you get in with us, we are going to fuck you. Okay? And that's Donald Trump. He's an asshole, but he's our asshole. Douglas,
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D
I just. I disagree because I think once started, you have to finish this. I don't agree that it's failed. It's been an incredibly successful operation in lots of ways. Supreme leader dead. Iranian air force destroyed. Nuclear sites attacked. Again, the navy of the Iranian revolutionary government at the bottom of the ocean. These are not small things. It's not the case that the Iranian revolutionary government has come out of this. Well, I know some people are wanting to say that after four to six weeks of war, this is some kind of loss for America. It isn't. It's been an amazing strategic success. But everyone wants to know what the out is. Now, there are several problems about that. The first is that at the beginning of this, there was a belief, a hope that the Iranian people might seize the opportunity to rise up and overthrow the government. The fact is that that hope was always marginal because as we always know, when a dictatorship like the Revolutionary Islamic government has the guns and the population doesn't, you're asking the population to do a hell of a thing that didn't happen. The regime is still in place. It doesn't mean it's going to be in place for perpetuity. It's perfectly possible it could still be toppled in the coming months by the people. But the crucial thing is, is the main objective of the war achieved or not? And the main objective is not just can the government in Iran get nuclear weapons in the foreseeable future, but can they in some future presidential term in the US As I see it, that is the bit that has to be addressed simply. Whether or not the Iranian administration, the government there, ever has in our lifetimes the potential to have breakout to nuclear weapons. My belief is that this is the one shot to make sure they don't. That the opportunity to make sure that the Iranian revolution government doesn't get weapons is seized now.
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A
But then we would have to put boots on.
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D
No, it doesn't. It doesn't. There can be an agreement.
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A
How can we make sure. No, no, say it.
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B
Holy shit. Where to start? Here we are again, Bill, right, Talking about another unpopular war in the Middle east that most of the country doesn't support. And people that I served with and folks that I know are going to continue to go and fight and die while a lot of the country lives life uninterrupted. There is a reemergence of a new generation of chicken hawks, people who have never served, people who don't have kids in the military, and they're happy to send our men and women to die in a war in the Middle East. But hold on, hold on. You found, I guess, the one guy outside of Pete Hegstaz who thinks that the last two weeks has been a victory. This has not been a victory. I'll give it an incomplete at best. They had a series of shifting rationales, but none of the rationales that even they put forward have been achieved. The regime is still in place. The Strait of Hormuz is not open. There is no securing of the enriched uranium, and the military still has some pretty sizable capacity. But I think the bigger issue here, right, is Donald Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen, and nothing is stopping him. And it's not just about Iran. So you have to ask yourself, not just are you against the war in Iran, are you against forever war? Because he's not stopping with Iran. He's all gas, no brakes, and he's already talking about hitting Cuba. He's already floated the idea of Colombia. He's hit over eight countries and counting. And he wants to put federal troops in places like Chicago and New York, and there will be no days off. He is not going to stop until he stops. And most of the country, now we're in Chicago. They are in Chicago.
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A
I know, but it's a whole different issue.
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B
No, it's not a different issue. No, no, it's really important. It's really important. It's not a different issue because this is the plan. 2025 was about dominating America. 2026 is about dominating the Western Hemisphere. And that includes in his vision board, places like Greenland, which he's now talking about again. So we have to at some point ask, will Congress step up? Will anybody give him any guardrails or are they just going to let him go? They've been like mall cops. They're not slowing him down at all. And he keeps going forward and nothing is stopping him. So we have to ask ourselves what will stop?
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A
We'll see.
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D
Just to focus on the nuclear issue again for a moment. It has been the consistent policy of Democrat and Republican administrations in this country that the Iranians shouldn't be allowed a nuclear weapon. Firstly because they're about the only regime on earth that would like to use one and seize mutual assured destruction as a rather attractive proposition. And secondly, because we know that the whole Middle east would go nuclear after they go nuclear. So if we just arrange for inevitably, well, let's say it's a weak fear
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B
monger that everybody's gonna get it and the nukes are the problem. But the reality is the nukes are still there.
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D
The world's most dangerous region, getting the world's most dangerous weapons would be very undesirable.
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B
I agree with that.
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D
I disagree on that.
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B
I agree with that. But here's the one, here's the one.
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D
You do something about that, America.
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B
He took his shot.
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D
Yes.
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B
And he missed. And so how many more shots are we gonna take?
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A
That's what I'm saying.
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B
How many more shots are we gonna take? Listen. And I think, and I would have argued if he was going to take. You can make an argument. I don't want them to have a nuke. I do not. You know, the regime is awful. I would be happy to see them removed and the threat removed. The question is, can you achieve that objective? And he has failed in achieving that objective. And there's a right way to go about it, to get the country behind it, to get congressional approval, to get an alliance of allies who can stand with us, to have a country that has the stomach for what might be a very long fight. And the biggest mistake a president can make is to send troops before they commit a country. And the country is not committed, but our troops are. And every time that happens, it leads to disaster. From Afghanistan to Iraq to Vietnam. So it's an admirable mission. But if you can't get. We have the most powerful military the world has ever seen. But if you can't get the country behind it, he's right, they will quit.
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D
The first thing is, look, everyone wants success. Everyone wants it to be a short, sharp war. And it hasn't been that yet. It doesn't mean that after six weeks we can say the same has been a disaster. The one thing I would add to
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B
that I didn't say disaster. Okay?
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D
The one thing I would add to that is international alliances. Don't bet on it. Every European. Don't bet on it. Look, every European country.
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B
We bet on it every time. Sure.
- [28:16]
D
Every single European country has the same policy. This one does. That the Iranians shouldn't be allowed a nuke. What have they done about it? Nothing. The German chancellor said last year when the Americans and Israelis last went in to bomb the reactors, he said, our policy in Germany is that the Iranians shouldn't get a nuclear weapon. But the Americans are doing our dirty work for us now. That's an ally that you want to get onside. No, they're on side in principle. It's just they're not going to commit anything. It's only America that is in the
- [28:44]
B
position we should shit on our allies and pull out a NATO.
- [28:47]
D
I don't think you should.
- [28:48]
B
But that's what the President wants to do. That's what the President wants to do.
- [28:50]
C
If you go into a bar fight,
- [28:51]
D
there should be any shitter.
- [28:52]
B
If you go into a bar fight, you need every friend you can have. And he's throwing away. He's throwing away our most valuable friends, including the Ukrainians.
- [29:01]
A
Right?
- [29:01]
B
He's pushing away Ukraine. He's denying support for Ukraine. And Zelensky today said that the Ukrainians have shot down threats that would have killed Americans. So let's focus on Ukraine. Let's focus on getting friends if you're going to go into a bar fight. And that's another reason he failed, because he's been a strategic failure. And he hasn't assembled the resources to do the thing that, that he wanted to do.
- [29:21]
D
He has to assembled resources. You've got the uae, you've got even Qatar. You've got the Jordanians, You've got almost every other country in the region because the Iranians have been throwing.
- [29:31]
B
Do you think American soldiers feel great about that? They don't have the British, they don't have the French. They don't have all of our NATO. And you've got the Italians, The Italians denying us airspace. The Spanish are denying us airspace. The whole world is pissed off at us.
- [29:51]
D
I'm not pissed off at you, okay?
- [29:52]
B
Most of the world is pissed off at us. And it's going down by the day. He is destroying the trust that has been built over generations. And he's taking the reputation of the American military down with him. When he says he wants conquest. When he says today, when he says we want conquest, right? We said we're going to take the oil. We are not marauders. We are not mercenaries. When Americans send men and women to die, the only thing we ask for is a place to bury our dead. Nothing else. Absolutely nothing else. And that's how it should be. But he's pulling all that apart, and the world does not trust him, so therefore they don't trust us. And no matter how admirable his goal is, the outcome matters. And right now, the outcome is not a victory. At best, it's incomplete.
- [30:33]
D
We're six weeks into it.
- [30:35]
B
So how many weeks is it okay? How many weeks is okay?
- [30:42]
A
I'm on somewhat of the same page with you. I just think that this is the second time we have tried to do this in the Middle East. We tried it in Iraq. That was the wrong country to do it. Bush used to talk about, we need to have a democracy in the heart of the Middle East. Pretending we don't have one called Israel, but okay, an Arab, Muslim democracy. This is the second time we basically tried to do that, because that's really the end game here. Let's have a democracy, an Arab democracy, that's not a theocracy in the middle of the Middle East. It just didn't work. Now we have what they called sunken cost fallacy. In the Iraq war, they had that saying, don't go all the way to Baghdad, because that's what George Bush's father did. I use it, like, in my regular life. People don't know what I'm talking about, but I just love the metaphor. Like I say, don't go all the way to Baghdad. You know, you don't have to marry him. Just have fun. Don't go all the way to Baghdad.
- [31:35]
B
I went to Baghdad, and Baghdad was the east, right? Securing the pieces. And here's the question that you and
- [31:40]
A
no one else is to finish this a second. This is what I think is the choice. Do we go all the way to Baghdad like Bush II did, which was a mistake, or do we do what his father did with limited goals, and then, okay, sorry, we'll try it again in another 20 years. It's just not the right time now, as I said, it's not happening. These people are not giving up. We're going to be fighting the Japanese in World War II. That's the kind of tenacity they have. And it just is not going to look good.
- [32:10]
B
And the question remains, right, who is going to secure that country? Let's say you eliminate the nuke threat. Let's say you remove the regime. Who Are going to be the boots on the ground that are going to provide security for the Iranian people. Cuz I was in Baghdad and I got stuck providing security for the Iraqi people. And right now, hold on, this is where you have to answer the question. They said it was going to be the Kurds. That's not on the table. Is it going to be the Israelis?
- [32:31]
A
No.
- [32:31]
B
Is it going to be Americans? We don't know. NATO's not going to help. So is there going to be some Free Iranian army that all of a sudden feels secure and is going to rise up? Who is going to provide security in the years that follow as they try to rebuild their mountain? Who is it going to be?
- [32:49]
D
They're arguing for a very, very specific thing which is to try to make sure that they do not get nuclear
- [32:54]
B
capacity, which is admirable, but it could be okay.
- [32:58]
D
So that could be the easy part. Having so started it. Why don't we finish that part?
- [33:02]
B
What does finish it look like?
- [33:04]
D
Make sure that in our lifetimes and in the foreseeable future they do not have the ability to break out and make.
- [33:09]
A
Because to reach that goal is just too high a price. That's why to reach. I agree with the goal. We tried it. And to pay the price of only a six week war with just aerial bombing and then the people rise up. I was all for it. The price for this is, is going to be incalculable. But I have to move on because I have to quote Trump's Easter. Post on Easter. This is so interesting. This is on Easter now and I'm not a religious person, but still. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastard, or you'll be living in hell. And I realize like this happens like almost every holiday. And I look back over some of his posts. These are real Memorial Day. Happy memorial to all, including the scum that spent the last four years trying to destroy our country. Christmas. Merry Christmas to all, including the radical scum that's doing everything possible to destroy our country. Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving to all, including the radical left. So I guess it's no surprise that Hallmark is now putting out his series of Donald putting out a series of Donald Trump holiday cards. Would you like to hear them? Okay. For example, there's Happy Mother's Day. We love our mothers. You are amazing. Even though giving birth is something a dog can do. Happy independence day or sleepy joe biden calls it independs day. Happy Veterans Day to all our amazing great American troops. And also the suckers and losers who got captured or died. Simplified. Happy Father's Day, motherfucker. Happy cinco de mayo, otherwise known as may 5th, juan. And Happy Thanksgiving to all right thinking Americans and even the lightweight losers who aren't thankful for me. Turkeys remind me of whores like you on their backs with their legs in the air. So those are some of the trump cards you can find in your aisle at the Hallmark store. All right, let's talk about another foreign policy because we could go on this all night and we don't want to bore the people. Okay, so K Pop Demon Hunters, Haja
- [35:58]
B
Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Trick's Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?
- [36:05]
A
It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side at participating McDonald's while supplies last. You tell yourself no one wants your college era band tees, but on Depop, people are searching for exactly what you've got. You once paid a small fortune for them at merch stands. Now a teenager who calls them vintage will offer that same small fortune back. Sell them easily on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste would be a money making machine? Your style can make you cash start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started@redfin.com own the dream Viktor Orban. If people don't know who he is, he is the leader of Hungary. Has been since 2010. There he is. Great looking guy
- [37:34]
D
by the way.
- [37:35]
A
He does look exactly like the colorless commies that led that country all the decades before. It was not quote unquote. I mean, it's not a communist country anymore, but it's definitely a quasi dictatorship. Viktor Orban is somebody who the Trump administration has always liked. And what's so interesting is Vance went over there to Campaign for him. His quote was. Vance was. He said, we will stand up against the bureaucrats in Brussels. I love it. Bringing the old Washington insider campaign to Hungary. Yes, those Belgian insiders. We gotta fuck with Olstead, the bureaucrats in Brussels. Anyway, he fell in the polls. Vance went over there because he looks like he's going to lose the election. And Vance went over there to prop him up and company propped him down. But here's my question for you foreign policy experts, okay? Russia always has loved orb and he's in their orbit, okay? I mean as Hungary was in the Soviet Union and Russia is basically running his campaign. Russia is campaigning for him to win and we're campaigning for him to win. We're working with Russia. I'm the same guy. To win an election. I just don't quite get that anybody.
- [39:01]
B
We are not working with Russia. And I think it's another example of how J.D. vance does not speak for most of the American people. And I think it's very important. I think it's very important every day that Donald Trump says Christ, crazy shit. That we talk to the world and say Donald Trump doesn't speak for most of America on most issues, but especially on issues like Ukraine and Putin and now Viktor Orban. Viktor Orban is a bad guy. He is the bad guy to the world. And we are losing support from a lot of people around the world. The Canadians no longer trust us. Half of Denmark thinks we're an adversary and it's because our leaders, our elected leaders, JD Vance and others are standing with Orban seem to favor Putin instead of Zelensky. And it's driving the entire world against us. We are picking the wrong side.
- [39:47]
A
I'll tell you why. He's sort of popular and it's have a lot to do with your book and something I think we both believe in, which is another thing JD Band said is we will stand with you for Western civilization. Now he goes too far. Viktor Orban, I think in some of his standing for Western civilization. But I think you and I both believe there is such a thing as Western civilization. Remember after 9 11, if you said clash of civilizations, it was the beginning of the sort of that wokeness where. Oh, don't say that. That's Islamophobia. No, it was a clash of civilizations. The civilizations are very different and ours is better. And if you're not clapping, spend a week in a Muslim capital. You wouldn't last, especially as a woman.
- [40:31]
B
One guy.
- [40:32]
A
Thank you. I agree with that guy.
- [40:36]
D
Just quickly, I mean, some people are pretending that this is unusual going and campaigning for another government. It isn't. American politicians have done this a lot. People tend to criticize behavior like this when it's supporting somebody they don't like. But I'm old enough to remember when Barack Obama came to the UK to support the then Conservative government in its campaign to remain in the eu Once again, that was an American politician going and lecturing a public about how they should vote. And again, it didn't work. The public actually voted more for Brexit, partly because Obama had shown that he didn't want America to be an ally ifdin't want to be such an ally to a post Brexit Britain. So everyone always complains about this when it's somebody they don't like that's being supported. But as you say, Bill, in the case of Orban, Orban is complicated. He did something in 2015 which I wrote about in the book, which was remarkable, which was at the same time that the mainly left wing politicians in Europe were saying that all of the borders of southern Europe were open to the world and millions of people walked legally into the, into Europe. Viktor Orban was basically the only European leader who said, no, we're a country of 10 million people. We cannot afford to take in the world's destitute. We can't afford to take in everyone from sub Saharan Africa, Africa, the Middle east, the Far east, who wants to come here. And he made a stand and to this day, the EU penalizes his country a million euros a day because of that stand, because they will not take the migrants who've come in the post2015 wave. So as a result of that, some people, including me, said that he had a sensible policy when it came to migration. One of the problems with Orban is that undoubtedly since the war in Ukraine began, he's had a policy which I personally don't agree with. I suspect you don't agree with either, which is. Well, it's based on two things in particular, which is, I wouldn't say that he's pro Putin, but he's certainly more friendly to Putin than I'd be comfortable with. There are two reasons for that. One is that he has a very popular mandate with his people to keep Hungary away from the war in Ukraine. Remember, there are 200,000 Hungarian speakers inside Ukraine. It is literally right on their border. And they are a country who twice in the 20th century were rolled over by communists, fascists and so on. So they want to keep out, he wants to keep them out. And Whether you agree with that or not, and I don't agree with it, it is popular with the Hungarian people. The second thing is his country is a hostage to, partly by his own design, hostage to Russian oil and gas. And as a result, he's in a situation which, again, sensible countries shouldn't get themselves into, of being reliant on a dictator for your fuel supplies. Lots of countries have been in that position. They're in a particularly bad position. But those are the explanations from his point of view. But as I say, I disagree with Orban on the Russia policy, but on the migration policy, it has to be said that he did make the best decisions for his country. There's a reason why it's actually safer to walk through Budapest these days in many ways than it is through central Berlin.
- [43:33]
B
Well, the Hungarian people don't seem to agree.
- [43:36]
D
Or parts of England.
- [43:37]
A
Yes.
- [43:38]
B
Don't seem to agree. And he's likely to lose. And J.D. vance is probably going to be part of that. And frankly, Hungary can keep J.D. vance because we don't want him. It's true. Because J.D. vance and Donald Trump have consistently stood with authoritarians and against democracy. That is a whole. You talked for a while. No, hold on, hold on. You talked for a while, right? There's a line here, okay? Either you stand with freedom or you stand with war criminals. Either you stand with democracy or you stand with authoritarianism. And they consistently stand with Putin and Orban and against democracy. That is the issue here. And everything else is secondary. Hang on a minute, hang on.
- [44:16]
D
Viktor Orban has been elected four times in elections that are free and fair.
- [44:20]
A
Now, you may disagree with that. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. You may disagree, but that doesn't make
- [44:25]
B
him a good guy. It doesn't make him a good guy,
- [44:27]
D
but it doesn't mean he's a dictator.
- [44:29]
B
Donald Trump won, too.
- [44:30]
D
Exactly. But stop calling people you disagree with authoritarian.
- [44:34]
B
That's your go to.
- [44:35]
D
He was elected.
- [44:36]
B
That's your go to. He was elected. So was Saddam Hussein.
- [44:39]
A
So is Hitler.
- [44:40]
D
Oh, come on. Saddam Hussein wasn't elected.
- [44:42]
B
He was really Hitler.
- [44:43]
D
Saddam Hussein was elected by 99 of the population.
- [44:46]
B
I know, I was there. I remember.
- [44:47]
D
But it wasn't free and fair. No, Korea has had free elections.
- [44:51]
B
Well, they're going to have a real free, fair election, and then democracy will win, and we need to be on the side of democracy and not on the side of up there.
- [45:00]
C
And Hungary is a democracy.
- [45:02]
B
And is Russia a democracy, too?
- [45:04]
D
No, of course Russia isn't a democracy. Russia isn't a democracy. Hungary is a democracy. If Viktor Orban loses, as is likely once again, but Orban is not in favor of the expression of the democratic vote. It is a democracy. It's in the eu. It's a democracy. Don't pretend it's the same thing.
- [45:19]
B
I'm talking about the principles of democracy. The principles of democracy, yes.
- [45:23]
D
And if he loses, he loses.
- [45:25]
B
Okay, well, democracy.
- [45:26]
A
How about that moon?
- [45:27]
B
Yeah,
- [45:33]
C
We can agree on the moon.
- [45:35]
A
Well, I don't know if we can agree on the moon. I like the moon. I like. Who doesn't like the moon? Big fan to look at it from here. A fan of the moon. Okay, I'm not a fan of going to the moon. The same question I've been asking since I was a kid.
- [45:48]
B
Why?
- [45:48]
A
Why is it worth the money? What are we doing there? It's just another big fucking rock. We could spend a lot the money more wisely, I think, if we were closer to actually having some goal that we could reach out there in outer space. And by the way, it's not outer space. It's right next door. It's nothing. I looked this up from there. Listen to here's the universe and we're on the moon, 250 miles away. I have more miles on Delta. By the way, We live in the Milky Way galaxy. It has 100 billion stars. Kids who didn't go to school, that's like our sun. That's our star. The sun. That's our star, isn't it? There's 100 to 200 billion of those. Just in our galaxy, there are 30,000 million million million stars. No galaxies. 350 billion large galaxies, each one with the 100 to 200 billion stars in it. What the fuck? You really think we're going to figure this out at any time period that matters? We can't even get to the next planet. And we wouldn't want to in our own solar system. It's just something for rich people to do. That's fun. It's fun. It's fun to look at. We're not really getting anything from it.
- [47:11]
B
I disagree.
- [47:12]
A
Bill, tell me what we're getting.
- [47:13]
B
What we're getting right now is some of the only hope that we have in this country.
- [47:17]
A
Hope?
- [47:17]
B
Yeah. The Artemis team and NASA is giving people hope in America.
- [47:22]
A
Oh, I could sell it cheaper maybe,
- [47:24]
B
but let's talk about the money. Artemis is gonna.
- [47:27]
A
That's so vague. I asked you for a concrete thing. We're getting out of it. You said hope.
- [47:30]
B
I do think that that's important, but we're also getting the sci.
- [47:33]
C
Hold on.
- [47:33]
B
We're getting a scientific research. We're getting a scientific research.
- [47:36]
A
And as soon as they. Scientific research.
- [47:37]
B
As soon as they land. As soon as they what? How people live in space. And they're.
- [47:43]
A
We know that. We know they go.
- [47:44]
B
They don't know that. They never. They've gone farther than any human beings
- [47:47]
A
have ever gone by 10 more miles. They've been to the Earth before.
- [47:51]
B
All right, Let me tell you.
- [47:51]
A
They've been to the Earth. We've been to the moon many times. Let me just talk about it.
- [47:57]
B
We know it costs about $4 billion.
- [48:00]
A
This is. The program costs $93 billion.
- [48:02]
B
Right. Which is 100 days in Iran.
- [48:05]
A
Okay.
- [48:05]
B
And less than the $200 billion additional money they just asked for in Iran.
- [48:09]
A
I'm forgetting out of box.
- [48:10]
B
$500 billion more they want in the defense budget. It's small in comparison. And I think we finally got American leaders that people respect around the world and look up to. And I do think the inspiration and hope that it's bringing to this country, especially to the young people, is absolutely critical. And I don't think you can put a price on that.
- [48:26]
A
All right, time for new rules. Okay, new rule. NASA must explain how Artemis II astronauts, more than 250,000 miles from Earth are able to post selfies from their iPhones. And I lose my signal when I drive into a parking garage. Their phones work from the dark side of the moon and my Apple iPhone moon even text to a Samsung and it's literally called a Galaxy. There's your hope. And we all love Artemis 2, but stop trying to tell me that going around the moon is a bigger deal than landing on the moon. I'm not saying everything was better in 1969, but yeah, some people went to Woodstock and some people drove past it on the way to Albany. My moon. All right, new rule. Don't get on a plane when you're nine months pregnant. A woman this week gave birth on a flight from Jamaica to New York. And all the news shows treated it like it was a feel good story. It's not. It's an act stupid story. What? What about the other passengers who just wanted to enjoy time with their emotional support animals? And the last was when she asked the guy in the next row if he could change seats so her family could sit together. You know, the baby. Okay, Noor, let's go back to using smoking as a way to tell that a character in a movie is anxious or upset. Because apparently the only Other way to do that is to watch them throw up. That's a lot of puking, Hollywood. And I want everyone out there. People are on the Internet. The next time an actor does it in a movie, you show this clip, you show this. New rule. Actors in Hollywood, you have been put on notice enough with vomit. If you really want to show that shit just really got real, do what real actors do and punch a mirror. New rule. Germans have to figure out a different way to say we're hiring. Yeah, I don't exactly speak German, but sorry, but we're suk and dick. Doesn't sound like you're ready to hire anyone. In fact, it sounds like you need the money more than we do. And finally, new rules. Stop asking me how it is that bad people can do good things. Here in California, we've been busy lately scraping a name off every building in the state because famed labor leader Cesar Chavez turned out to be not the folk saint we had been told, but more like the Latino Jeffrey Epstein. Saint. He was more like a priest, if you know what I mean. Officials here have been in such a rush to get his name off schools, half the kids in LA now go to TBD Elementary. Now such a man man as Cesar Chavez presents us with the age old quandary of purists versus utilitarians who are people who believe above all else, Numbers matter. Chavez undeniably made the lives of millions better. So the question is, if you could go back in time and kill him to spare the young girls he assaulted, would you? A purist says yes, I say no. Which is also what Dolores Huerta said. She was Chavez's right hand, Aiden, and also one of his rape victims. And she said she never reported his crimes because, quote, the formation of a union was the only vehicle to accomplish and secure farm workers rights. And I wasn't going to let Cesar or anyone else get in the way. The farm worker movement has always been bigger and far more important than any one individual. That to me is pretty heroic. But that's life. Being an adult often means choosing between two horrible options, like the food on United. But here's where someone always says, why can't we just have great deeds done by good people? I don't know. Because we live on earth. Things are really imperfect here. I'll see you at the Michael Jackson movie. Yeah. It's funny how when it comes to the arts, we seem to have no trouble separating bad people from the good stuff they do. Kanye just sold out Sofi. He could perform on a floating swastika and his fans would say, I don't support everything. I'm just here for the songs about women obsessed with money.
- [54:38]
D
Now,
- [54:40]
A
would it be great if all pop stars were pure and societal advancements were all led by an exemplary human being with a benevolent heart and an incredible head of hair? Of course. But I only have so much time in the day. Kids, do you know about mba? No, that's not. When older people can't shit, right? No. MBS is Mohammed bin Salman. He's the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. And thanks to him, Saudi Arabia lets women drive now. And the fact that that is an applause break tells you how heavy a lift modernizing Saudi Arabia is. Thank you, one person. But he's doing it on the flip side. He absolutely did order the decapitating of a journalist with a bone saw. Now the purist says, get rid of him. No compromise with wrongdoing. Yeah, Biden tried that. He wouldn't shake his hand and he said he'd make the Saudis pay the price and make them pariahs. Yeah. Then we remembered we need their oil and the price of pariah dropped through the floor. Trump, of course, completely could give a shit about any of it and said to mbs, put her there. And as long as you're killing journalists, have you met Don Lemon? So kill MBS if you like, but just know you'd also be killing the dreams of millions of Saudi women to not live like chattel. Because MBS is also the reformer who defanged the religious police there and let women leave the house without a male guardian. He allowed female students to carry phones on. Although he might want to rethink that one now. Do MBS's good deeds excuse the head chopping? Of course not. They live alongside it. Or take MBS's big buddy, Jared Kushner, who, while he's America's negotiator in the wars going on in the Middle east, he also has billion dollar business deals with going with the Saudis and Qatar and the uae. Wow, this guy looks meek, but he's got some balls. Now, do I love it that the President's son in law wets his beak while doing the nation's business? No, but he's a millennial. Of course he's got a side hustle. And also maybe that's how business gets done in that part of the world. Yes, it reeks of corruption, but do I hate it that the top dog in Islam is bros with a Jew? I don't. I think it's great. I think it's great progress that the Arabs would rather bribe Jews than kill them. Kushner got the Abraham Accords done. That's a good thing, even if you think the wrong team did it. The Iranian regime has killed because they wanted to be free. Thousands and thousands of women on purpose. We killed 175 by accident. Horrible. But do the moral math. Do the math math. People get killed in almost all big undertakings. Death is almost always the price for emancipation. But would you argue that our civil war wasn't worth the lives lost? Don't answer that, Stephen Miller. Thomas Jefferson had sex with a slave. And being a slave, it meant she could not say no. That's a rapist. A rapist wrote the Declaration of Independence and somehow was also the product of the Enlightenment. Who invented a great country. Life makes no sense. Labor unions and democracies are founded by rapists. Women can be liberated by pussy grabbers. Modernity can be ushered in by beheaders. I know. It's like finding out Tiger woods teaches driver's ed. So when I see people spouting slogans like peace, not war. Unity, not division, I roll my eyes.
- [59:46]
B
Of course.
- [59:47]
A
This is what we all want. The adult question is, at what price? Violence is never okay. Yes, it is. World War II got millions killed, but without it, people would still be hiling Hitler. Okay, bad example. All right, that's our show. I want to thank my guests Paul Rykoff, Douglas Murray and Dr. Azik. And Emanuel Pleb. Random drops every Monday. Make sure to catch our special 420 show on 420 with Woody Harrelson on Get it wherever you get your podcast now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, Very much. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo. Com.