Ep. #726: Kara Swisher, Rahm Emanuel, Jake Sullivan

Summary

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Real Time with Bill Maher

Episode #726: Kara Swisher, Rahm Emanuel, Jake Sullivan

Date: April 18, 2026
Host: Bill Maher
Guests: Kara Swisher, Rahm Emanuel, Jake Sullivan

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Overview

This episode centers on three main themes:

1. The intersection of technology, wealth, and the pursuit of longevity;
2. The fallout of ongoing Middle East conflicts and U.S. foreign policy, especially in relation to Iran and Israel;
3. The internal strife and cultural debates within the Democratic Party, with particular attention to “woke” politics, education, and party leadership challenges.

Bill Maher’s signature blend of pointed humor, exasperation, and cultural criticism sets the tone, with his guests each bringing expert analysis, candor, and at times, personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Silicon Valley’s Obsession with Longevity and Techno-Elitism

• Kara Swisher discusses her CNN series "Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever" and dives into the tech billionaires’ obsession with life extension.
  • Swisher critiques the “experiment of one” mentality, highlighting figures like Brian Johnson:
    • “He injects himself with stem cells... He measures his erections at the stuff constantly. But mostly it’s because he just lives this spartan life.” (10:22)
    • Swisher points out Johnson spends $2 million/year on his quest and “thinks it’s going to help humanity, I think in his head. And it’s not. It’s an experiment of one.” (11:24)
  • She distances real scientific research from “wellness grifters” and underscores how “a lot of this health and longevity stuff is for a very small group of people who don’t really care about the wide population.” (12:23)
• Maher’s take is balanced skepticism: “I want to know why Steve Jobs, of all people, got pancreatic cancer... It just says to me, we still don’t know shit about cancer.” (13:37)
• Swisher summarizes the true factors for longer life:
  1. “Don’t be poor, be rich.”
  2. “Universal healthcare.”
  3. “Friends and family... social connections.” (14:34)

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher [14:34]: “Everyone’s like, what’s the one thing you should do to live longer? Don’t be poor, be rich.”
• Bill Maher [15:10]: “So many books out about, you know, how to be healthy and live. And I really feel like they all should be called no shit.”

2. Ozempic & the New Era of "Miracle" Drugs

• Maher and Swisher dive into the hype around GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic:
  • Swisher: “Because I’ve talked to a lot of actual scientists.” (15:36)
  • She voices concern about how these drugs alter motivation and appetite, not just for food: “They get kind of logy. You know, they may be living to work all the time and that may not be such a bad thing.” (16:16)
  • Ultimately, GLP-1s “will start to bring down which is a diabetic industrial complex in this country... It’s a step in the direction, but it’s not a solution.” (17:25)

3. The Middle East Crisis: U.S., Iran, Israel & Reputational Fallout

• The panel moves to a heated geopolitical analysis:
  • Maher: “We missed the window... I thought we should have done it when they were in the streets in January protesting. That was the time to do the bombing.” (18:33)
  • Maher and his guests agree that an economic war is preferable to a military one, but Rahm Emanuel warns: “This decision... Does not come cost free. It’s better we have an economic conflict... but where do we go back and get our reputation?” (19:41)
  • Jake Sullivan [20:15]: “Iran has taken from this war... they can now shut down the Strait of Hormuz and the United States will look at that as a source of leverage... that is what Iran got out of this war.”
  • Emanuel highlights the broader loss: “All our Gulf allies look at us and said you are not who we thought you were going to be... This has had real damage on the credit.” (21:15)

Critical Takeaways:

• U.S. allies’ trust has eroded.
• The likelihood of regional chaos vs. American/Israeli strategic interests diverging.
• Sullivan [26:21]: “Israel... would just prefer absolute chaos in Iran... That is not fine for the United States of America.”

4. U.S. Politics: The Democrats’ Identity Crisis

a. Israel, Arms Sales, and Shifting Alliances

• Sullivan [22:32]: “It’s not just Bernie Sanders... 40 Democrats voted for this [halting arms sales to Israel]."
• Emanuel [23:55]: “We don’t subsidize Great Britain buying weapons... Israel is a very wealthy nation; there should be no more taxpayer support for what they want to do.”

b. Wokeism, Education, and Party Disconnects

• Maher and Emanuel sharply critique the Democrats’ cultural strategy:
  • Emanuel [28:36]: “The Democrats... invited a bunch of culture wars into our kids schools and we lost that war.”
  • On education: “One out of four children [are] missing 18% of the school year and we're not talking about it. We're worried about names of schools, bathrooms, locker room access. Get back to what matters.” (30:32)
• Maher pushes for a “non-wilting” candidate who can take on party orthodoxy and withstand backlash for centrist, common-sense stances.

Notable Moment:

• Bill Maher [30:00]: “Will it be you, Rahm Emanuel? ...Because somebody has to. Because I’m telling you, when they come back at you, I mean, you just messed with a hornet’s nest there.”

c. Social Media’s Impact & Moderation

• Jake Sullivan [32:51]: “Extreme voices are dominating the online discourse. And it means common sense, rational people are having a really hard time finding a way to talk to one another and build common ground... that is not a Democratic problem. That is an American problem.”

d. The Teachers’ Union and Moderate Leadership

• Maher invokes Matt Mahan, San Jose mayor’s willingness to “say no to their friends”:
  • Emanuel: “...Sometimes say you’re my friend and the answer is no. But you get a seat at the table but you don’t get to keep doing what you’re doing.” (44:16)
  • Maher: “Are you willing to do that?” (44:50)
  • Emanuel recalls his own battles with Chicago’s teachers union, taking a strike to “help kids get a full school day.” (45:05)

5. Scandals, Accountability & Cultural Double Standards

• Maher and the group dissect the Eric Swalwell sex scandal and broader party accountability:
  • Maher: “Why does this keep happening to so many people? Men in power abusing their power against women constantly.” (39:47)
  • Sullivan [42:10]: “...Once these stories come to light of how fast [Democrats] move to say you’re out, I mean, it’s not even close. The list of Democrats who have been... As soon as you don’t even have to go back to history...”
• They discuss political hypocrisy, with Emanuel joking about historical and recent open secrets.

6. Artificial Intelligence: Existential Threats

• In “New Rules,” Maher delivers a signature monologue about the dangers and absurdities of AI:
  • He catalogues how AI potential is simultaneously overhyped and over-feared, yet the leaders building it are themselves “afraid of what they've created” (57:39).
  • “When the people who are making AI are scared of AI it’s time to shut the whole thing down until we can figure out what the hell is going on.” (47:07)
  • Criticizes lack of regulation, absurd delegation of critical decisions to a handful of “hoodie wearing on the side spectrum sociopaths.”
  • Notes AI's capacity for manipulation, blackmail, and the existential uncertainties it poses:
    Maher [55:53]: “We’re letting a handful of hoodie wearing on the side spectrum sociopaths, practically robots themselves, roll the dice on species extinction.”

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 09:27 | "If they hack this, they hack social, they hack politics, they hack technology, they can hack health. And that’s been in their heads forever." | Kara Swisher | | 14:34 | "Don’t be poor, be rich.” (On longevity secrets) | Kara Swisher | | 21:15 | "All our Gulf allies look at us and said you are not who we thought you were going to be... This has had real damage." | Rahm Emanuel | | 26:21 | "Our interests diverged. Israel... would just prefer absolute chaos in Iran... That is not fine for the United States of America." | Jake Sullivan | | 28:36 | "The Democrats... lost the plot. And they lost the American people in that plot." | Rahm Emanuel | | 32:51 | "Extreme voices are dominating the online discourse. And it means common sense, rational people are having a really hard time finding a way to talk to one another." | Jake Sullivan | | 44:16 | "You’re my friend and the answer is no. But you get a seat at the table but you don’t get to keep doing what you’re doing." | Rahm Emanuel | | 47:07 | "When the people who are making AI are scared of AI it’s time to shut the whole thing down..." | Bill Maher | | 55:53 | "We’re letting a handful of hoodie wearing on the side spectrum sociopaths, practically robots themselves, roll the dice on species extinction." | Bill Maher |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:40 — Maher’s monologue: Middle East update, Trump/Iran/Israel/Pope, Eric Swalwell, California drama
• 07:56 — Kara Swisher interview: Aging, longevity, Silicon Valley culture
• 17:41 — Transition to panel: Rahm Emanuel, Jake Sullivan join; foreign policy deep dive
• 21:15 — Strait of Hormuz & U.S. credibility explored
• 22:32 — Senate vote on Israel arms, Democratic disarray
• 28:36 — The Democrats’ culture wars & political messaging problems
• 32:39 — Sullivan on the dangers of social media dynamics
• 37:12 — Discussion of political sex scandals; party accountability
• 44:16 — The challenge and necessity of Democratic leaders saying “no” to their own constituencies
• 47:07 — Maher’s closing “New Rules” on AI and existential risk

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Tone & Style

• Original Tone: Direct, irreverent, humorous yet informed
• Maher’s Approach: Blunt critique of both left and right, a push for common sense and pragmatism; points out hypocrisies with jokes and candor.
• Panelists: Mix of pragmatic realism (Emanuel), policy wonkiness (Sullivan), and tech media incisiveness (Swisher). Occasionally contentious but never acrimonious.

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Utility for Non-Listeners

This episode tackles some of the most pressing concerns in American life—AI’s existential risks, the real drivers of longevity, party infighting, foreign crisis mismanagement, and cultural overcorrection—through the lens of genuine, sometimes self-aware debate. If you haven’t listened, this summary distills both the substance and spirit, highlighting Maher’s (and his panel’s) push for sanity in an era of polarization, hype, and distraction.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

Last night you spent two hours deciding what to wear to the party this morning. It'll take you two minutes to list it on Depop and make your money back.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Just grab your phone, snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest.

[Bill Maher]

The sheer dress and platform heels you'll never wear again.

[Rahm Emanuel]

There's a birthday girl searching for them right now.

[Bill Maher]

Your one and done look is about

[Rahm Emanuel]

to pay for your next night out,

[Bill Maher]

or at least the ride home.

Your style can make you cash.

Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste.

From sauce to dust to nuggets. It's Taco Bell's new Diablo Dusted Crispy Chicken Nuggets. Are they mild? If they were mild, we'd have to change the name to Little Rascal Nuggets or Minor Nuisance Nuggets. Definitely Diablo New Diablo Dusted Crispy Chicken Nuggets. A brand new classic only at Taco Bell. Picture being down at participating U.S. taco Bell locations for a limited time and while supplies last. Welcome to an HBO podcast from the

HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Ma.

Hey, how are you? How you doing down there? Thank you, people. Thank you. You're the best. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here. Thank you. Oh, wow. Thank you so much. So much to get. So much to get to. Listen, if you're the kind of person who only gets your news from this show, as you should so much just from week to week. I mean, a couple of weeks ago, because Iran would not open the Strait of Hormuz. You've been following this. Trump just threatened to destroy civilization, at least their civilization. Well, now we've pivoted. Okay, good.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

We have a whole new plot into this. Trump said Iran can't blockade the straight of Hormuz. You know why? Because we're doing it. You cannot destroy the world economy. That's our job. So whatever. Good news, good news. Trump said today traffic is moving in the Persian Gulf and if it works there, we're going to try it on the 405. Okay, so. So Iran, I think, has called their blockade off, but our blockade is still on, which means. Oh, fuck it. Why write a joke about this? It'll be obsolete before I get to the punchline. But here's what Trump tweeted out today. This is interesting. This is word for word. He said, it has been my honor to solve nine wars and this will be my tenth. And 10 is very exciting. It means the next one is free. Also good news, Trump says that Iran has agreed to turn over their Enriched uranium. He said they agreed very powerfully to turn over their enriched uranium. Of course, the hard part here is informing Iran that they agreed to this. That is never something we know for sure. And apparently there's a peace treaty. Well, a ceasefire. Not a peace treaty, a ceasefire in Lebanon. Thank you, one lady. Between Israel and Hezbollah. Hezbollah could tell something was going on because their pagers were blowing up. Oh, I kid. Hezbollah, they're a won. So we have a ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. We have a ceasefire between Trump and Iran. And fingers crossed, we might even have one between Trump and the Pope because that's the other. Oh, Have you seen that? They are beefing. That is a full on rap war going on between Trump and the Pope. I don't know who to vote for in this one. I really don't. I mean, I don't like the old white guy with the real estate empire, but I have my issues with Trump too. Trump, he's always going to. Trump, he's just going to. You can't stop whoever he gets into a fight with. It's always the same. So you know what he said about the Pope the other day? He's weak on crime. Yeah. Because he's not a detective in Detroit. He's weak on crime. Popes don't fight crime. Have you seen their record on pedophilia? I mean, it's not great. Well, that. I love hypocritical America. I really do. See, liberals suddenly love the Pope. The Pope, who two weeks ago was all in the headlines. You know why? Exorcisms. Yeah, this big thing about we gotta exorcism. The demons are all around the devils. That's who the fucking Pope is. Okay, A guy who does exorcism, doesn't believe in gay marriage. No women priests. But now, because he's feuding with Trump. MSNBC loves this guy. He's got a big speech on the floor from Chuck Schumer. Eric Swalwell sent him a dick pic. Oh, yes, that's big, big story here in California. The, the frontrunner for the governor was Eric Swalwell. Congressman Eric Swalwell, and he has dropped out of the race. Five women came forward now and accused him of terrible sexual stuff. He denies it, of course, but, you know, people are furious because they say this was kind of an open secret going on and why people knew this. I think they're right. I think the signals were everywhere. Like, you know how politicians always wear the flag pin. He had an eggplant emoji. I mean, So he has he has also now stepped down as a congressman. He's not even there anymore. Because, you know, it turns out first one woman comes forward, then it's four, then it's five. Turns out he hit on a lot of women. And also once in a dark cocktail lounge, Kristi Noem's husband. But that's a different. So he is completely gone. But before he left, he did apologize to the 11 million women voters in California and invited them all to his hotel room. All right, we've got a great show. We have ambassador, former ambassador Rahm Emanuel and former national security advisor. Wow. Jake Sullivan. But first up, she's an award winning podcast host's new CNN series, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever airs Saturday nights at 9 on CNN. Kara. Hey you. How are you? Good to see you. All right. Yeah. How you doing?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Good, how you doing?

[Bill Maher]

Well, I'd like to live forever too.

Would you? Also I really enjoyed that, you know, a lot of people, Eric Swalwell joke

was also a lot of people when you say that, to say, no, I don't. Yeah, you know, I don't get that. I think it's how happy you are. I think if your life is going along pretty good, like I could do this, you know, I don't want to die, I'll miss the playoffs.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Uh huh.

[Bill Maher]

Uh, okay.

You know, the things I like in life, I like, I wouldn't mind doing them forever. Maybe in a thousand years I'd be like, geez, another crossword puzzle. But right now I like it. But we are getting, I mean, look, we are at a certain age where we have more yesterdays than tomorrows.

Yes, that's correct. Thank you. That's so poetic.

Well, I'm not the first one to say that, but that's what it is.

I know that.

And I love your special. I saw the early cut because, you know, you kind of weave your own ideas about mortality with your expertise on Silicon Valley, which I've been reading for years at the guys in Silicon Valley, the tech grows. And the billionaires, they really think between their money, which is inorbitant, and their expertise in technology, they can live forever

or at least a facsimile very long. And then they can preserve themselves in some fashion after they're gone or they're bought their meat sacks, as Elon Musk is referred to, as opposed to other sacks.

Right. So what do you make of this? Do you think this is elitist? Do you think this is, this is.

I do, I do. And one of the things it's interesting just to get at the heart of psychologically why they're doing it. Of course, if they hack this, they hack social, they hack politics, they hack technology, they can hack health. And that's been in their heads forever. And some efforts, like, I have to say, Larry Ellison's doing some really interesting things around an institute. And then some of it gets to be like Brian Johnson, who's well known for that. Right.

I had him on my podcast. I like Brian.

Yes. He's actually. It's an interesting point.

Explain who Brian is, because one of your episodes is a great brain. Right.

He actually showed up at one of my conferences talking about brain health. This was in 2017. And he looked relatively normal. I think what he looks like now is interesting, I suppose. And he has started to hack. He started to experiment on his body to see how much longevity he could get, how much health he could get. How can. The word they like to use is optimize themselves. They want to optimize themselves.

And let's be clear, not with exotic means. By sometimes. What do you consider.

Well, he injects himself with stem cells, which is. He goes to Mexico to do that. He goes to the stream. You know, he measures his erections at the stuff constantly.

But mostly it's because he just lives this spartan life. I mean, he does. He goes to bed.

Yes.

You know, like exactly the same time every night. Eight o'. Clock. The perfect time to go to bed. He only eats. Not any introduction. No.

It's like nuts, berries, olive oil.

Right. And I asked him because he said, you know, you can measure your biological age versus your real age. I mean, I have a thing on my phone app that can do that. I think you did it in one of you.

I did. As a joke.

Right. Why as a joke?

Because it's not accurate. It's just a game. A lot of this stuff is game, you know, you have to have real testing to do that.

Well, I don't know. I mean, they have a lot of ways to test you. But anyway, Brian's, I think, was. He's. At the time I talked to him, I think he was 46, but his biological age was 41. I said to him, you live like a monk. And you shaved six years off. I live like David Crosby. I shaved three.

Right, exactly. So one of the things, you know, I don't have an issue because, you know, when he came to code, he talked a lot about brain health and he had depression issues and everything else. But what's interesting is he's spending $2 million a year to do this and thinking that it's going to help humanity, I think in his head. And it's not. I mean, it's an experiment of one. And that's what' syou know. And he says it himself. He's like, he goes, I know everyone thinks I'm a narcissistic, Patrick Bateman style motherfucker. And it looks like that. And so where does it help everybody else? And that's what I want to talk about.

I actually like it that he's doing that, because I can. Well, I know Malo. I can call him up and ask him what is the latest data. I mean, he calls himself the most studied human being ever.

Well, he calls himself a rejuvenation athlete.

Well, whatever he's doing, I'm not going to do it.

No.

Like, I'm not going to measure my erections. Well, not that way anyway. There's a different way. You can measure whether they're still working.

It's just an experiment of one. And so I think what's interesting is there's all this amazing thing happening all over the place. And then you have all this noise of sort of wellness grifters. And I don't consider him a wellness grifter necessarily. There's always supplements involved with these people or something they're selling to you. And so there's all this misinformation about health online that people are availing themselves to. And then there's, you know, all this sort of panic about longevity, and then there's some really amazing things happening. And so I wanted to sort of look at the juxtaposition and start with Steve Jobs, who gave a famous speech about mortality and how death was the single greatest invention of life, which was very different than these guys who were like, I am a God. I'm going to live forever. And so I wanted to sort of explore that part because I think Steve. I'm more on the Steve Jobs side of things.

But I'm sure he didn't want to die when he did.

He absolutely didn't. And I interview his son, who's trying to do a lot of stuff, using lots of technology to end different cancers that he's doing. And I think that's sort of great. Or what Mark Cuban's doing, trying to bring down prescription drug crisis, or even Mackenzie Scott, who just gave 100 and some million dollars to Meals on Wheels. That's going to help older people live longer. Like, I want to see what can work for the rest of us and not just this Very elite, rich group of people.

I agree. But since they have the money. Yes, that's who's going to do the experimenting. I mean, I want to know why Steve Jobs, of all people, got pancreatic cancer.

Right?

He does not seem like the type. It just says to me, we still don't know shit about cancer.

Right. So that should be accompanied by not cutting funding to act A course. But we're doing that. We are so behind the funding cuts that are happening at colleges and universities, which was the original place where a lot of these things happened that these guys could avail themselves to. That's been devastating. You know, and then there's all these manner of things that just need gold standard tests so the rest of us can participate in this. And that's all I'm saying, is that a lot of this health and longevity stuff is for a very small group of people who don't really care about the wide population. And one of the things that I know, everyone's like, what's the one thing you should do to live longer? Don't be poor, be rich.

Right?

It's the number one thing. The second one, universal healthcare. We need it for everyone at a base level. And the third thing, oddly enough, is friends and family, which there's a lot of scientific proof showing the isolation, loneliness, et cetera, from digital, which is sort of the thing I've been talking about for a long time, is really deleterious to people's health in some ways. And we should be thinking about social connections. And Covid really broke us in many ways. And one of them was the connections between people. And that's really important too.

So, yeah, there's so many books out about, you know, how to be healthy and live. And I really feel like they all should be called no shit.

No shit, right?

You know, it's like, I agree, I agree. Don't be lonely.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

You know, don't eat like a child.

Right. Don't eat like a child.

Right. You know, just. But look, the other thing I wanted to pick your brain about is this GLP, GLP1. Okay. Which Ozempic is the most famous one of them?

Yeah, there's a Jaro. All kinds.

I've been skeptical from the beginning. You seemed less so.

Now I am less so because I've talked to a lot of actual scientists.

Did you see the articles that were out this week?

I did in the Washington Post.

Okay. I've been hearing this on the low for a while.

On the low from you?

Yes. I'll tell you after the Show.

All right.

Okay. Somebody you would know.

Okay, all right.

Somebody like that who has a lot of money, big tech, blah, blah, blah, and said, you know, he's been hearing. And in his company also, they don't like their employees on this stuff because,

oh, you don't work hard enough for the man.

They don't. Okay. It takes away your craving for food and maybe substance abuse.

Yeah.

Also kind of for success and sometimes for living and for being motivated, they get kind of logy.

You know, they may be living to work all the time and that may not be such a bad thing. Right. I mean, they would love everyone to work for them as long as they could.

Well, there's a happy medium between.

Absolutely. But you know, oddly enough, there's a really. Michael Pollan wrote a book where he's talking about coffee. Coffee got really popular and pushed because they used to drink during lunch. Everyone used to drink and then not come back to work. And that made them lugy. Right. But then coffee kept people going. Coffee's a drug too, and it made some parts as good, some parts as bad. And so to me, look, that may be he's not getting the work he wants out of his people. So sorry, rich person. I'm not that don't feel victimized here. But what I am worried about is obesity and the way people die of things that are unnecessary. And I'm not talking about just measles, which is insane that people are getting measles these days. Cholera is next, I guess then we can move on to polio, all these solved diseases and then the plague, of course. But one of the things that we have to understand is obesity is one of these things that we could. And then we combine it with good nutrition, figuring things out around exercise and getting people the food they need and stuff like that. And so it's a step in the direction, but it's not a solution. But it certainly will start to bring down which is a diabetic industrial complex in this country. And that's another issue we have to start finding if it works and it makes people less motivated to go to work and hang out with their friends. I'm fine with that. I'm perfectly fine.

Well, it's a terrific special. I hope people watch it on stream.

Thank you. What do you do for your health? Let me. I'm curious.

What? I'm not married.

Ok. That's a long.

Just leave it there.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

All right. Thank you very much. Please don't die anytime soon. We love having you here. Paris. Richard, everybody. All right. Let's meet our panel. Hey, guys. All right. He is co host of the Long Game podcast, professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, and former national Security Advisor under President Biden, Jake Sullivan. Jake, great to have you with us. He is the former White House chief of staff, mayor of Chicago, and US Ambassador to Japan under President Biden, Rahm Emanuel. What a resume we have here. All right, so let's get the war out of the way first, because I do want to talk about the. We got two former Biden officials here, so we're going to talk about the Democrats, so buckle up. Previously on Real Time. I was mentioning that I was. For this shot at Iran to try to take out this regime. We won't have to go through all the reasons. You've heard them all for six weeks now, whether you agree or you don't. We missed the window is my view. I thought we should have done it when they were in the streets in January protesting. That was the time to do the bombing. Okay, so we missed. So last week I was saying, okay, I don't want this to go on forever now. Okay, we tried. It didn't work. Let's pivot. He did. I'm going to take the good news. We are. It's. It's better that we're in an economic war than a bombing war at this point. Can we agree on that?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, fuck. You know, I mean, we can definitely agree. Yes.

[Rahm Emanuel]

What the fuck? It's definitely better.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, great.

[Rahm Emanuel]

It's definitely better. But like, my view, where do we go back and get our reputation? Where do we go back and get actually where America was beforehand? So it comes. This decision. Doesn't come cost free. Does not come cost free. It's better that we have an economic conflict rather than just military and kinetic.

[Bill Maher]

At worst. First, it might come out that what we have done is said to Iran after 47 years of this nonsense, you just can't do it with impunity. Okay, maybe we didn't get rid of the regime. We didn't. But at least we put you on notice. You just can't do the shit you've been doing.

[Jake Sullivan]

I mean, I think that for me, it seems to me the main lesson that Iran has taken from this war is they can now shut down the Strait of Hormuz and the United States will look at that as a source of leverage for Iran. That used to be a theoretical possibility. Now it's an actual reality. And even when they just said, we're going to open the strait, the Revolutionary Guard came out and said you have to come through Iranian waters. You have to go in the order we tell you. Maybe you even have to pay a quiet toll and we'll decide down the road whether we want to close it up again. That is what Iran got out of this war.

[Bill Maher]

Where are we right now? This is Pacific time. But 4:30 on Friday, Trump said fully open and ready for full passage earlier in the day. And then, no, not that later. Until such time as our transaction with Iran is 100% complete. I don't know what that means. Good news is now we're a transaction. We were going to destroy your civilization.

[Rahm Emanuel]

And now can I pick up on one thing, Jason?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rahm Emanuel]

We went in to deal with their nuclear capacity. They discovered in the war that they have a nuclear option called the Strait of Hormuz. That is not a minor thing. Second is all our Gulf allies look at us and said you are not who we thought you were going to be from a protection standpoint and from a capacity. This has had real damage on the credit.

[Bill Maher]

Gulf allies like that. We did this. Well, the Saudis wanted us to do it more.

[Rahm Emanuel]

They wanted us to finish it. We didn't do that. The other thing is, I mean, I think in this process probably the one thing you do have is the ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. That's the one thing that was traded for the Strait of Hormuz.

[Bill Maher]

We'll see how it comes out. Let's go to the adjacent topic that just happened. Senate. I have to explain this cuz it's too convoluted to understand. The Senate rejected a measure to block the sale of military equipment to Israel. I wouldn't know what that means unless I stopped and thought about it. What it means is this is a Democratic idea. This is Bernie Sanders. This is the Democrats wanting to stop. And this is not charity to Israel. This is the sale of military. This is the Democrats saying we're not going to sell Israel any more military equipment. Seven Democrats joined the Republicans in shooting this down. So Israel has seven Democratic allies left in the Senate.

[Jake Sullivan]

Well, first of all, it's not just Bernie Sanders. As you know, it's 40 Democrats who voted for, for this. And basically what he said is seven,

[Bill Maher]

only seven allies was pretty straightforward.

[Jake Sullivan]

I talked to a number of them before the vote. I think they did the right thing.

[Bill Maher]

Why?

[Jake Sullivan]

Because the President of the United States. Who did the right thing? Those 40 Democrats.

[Bill Maher]

The 40?

[Jake Sullivan]

Yeah, because the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of Israel brought the United States into a war that basically was Misbegotten from the beginning, which cost American credibility, cost American lives and cost American families at the gas pump. And basically those Democrats shouldn't vote for anything that supports that war, including more weapons to Israel. I think that's just a basic proposition. If you are not wanting to support the US And Israel continuing the war in Iran, you shouldn't be voting to send more weapons to Israel. I think that that is the right approach for those 40 Democrats to take.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I see why Biden lost.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Look, my view on this whole thing is the Senate shouldn't be in the business of picking which weapons. No more US Military a financial assistance by the taxpayers for Israel. You're a country like all other allies of ours, Japan, South Korea, the Brits, the Germans. You're going to pay full price. You buy what you want, but you have to abide by the laws. That should be it. I don't think the Senate should be in the place of playing Solomon. That weapon, not that weapon. No more US taxpayer support. It's not where Israel was 20 years ago. Not where. And I was in the room when we President Obama. Largest assistance was under President Obama. We did the funding for the Iron Dome. But here, the days of taxpayers subsidizing Israel militarily, that's over. No more financially.

[Bill Maher]

Maybe they can afford it on their own. They can afford it. Okay, well let's take the, let's take the money part out of it. But shouldn't we just back them as our ally in this area? I mean I feel like the Democratic politicians are not leading. I think what happened with the.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Well, that's not a shock.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, but shouldn't they be telling their constituents who seem to be following what their children do by watching TikTok. That seems to be the position of the Democratic Party, by the way. I think that's a problem with the Democratic Party in general. They act with the voting populace the same way with their children. They don't tell them they're being dumb sometimes and they should tell them instead of just letting them have this idea. I mean Ari Fleischer said when it comes to anti Semitism, the Republicans have a cold and the Democrats have a fever. A fever.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Well, you're. Let me say this. There's one Jew at this table. Let me go ahead on a serious note. Look, I think that you say just put the money aside. I think that's the core issue here. We don't subsidize Great Britain buying weapons. We don't suppose supply or financial assistance to Japan. Israel is a Very wealthy nation. There should be no more taxpayer support for what they want to do. And they get the same deal that any one of our allies do. They have to abide by the laws of the United States if they're going to buy X weapons, and that's how it should be constructed. Now, I happen to also agree in this situation, we got ourselves, which is in violation of a rule Israel's had for 78 years. The United States, they never said the United States should never spill any blood for the state of Israel's security. What happened here going into Iran with the United States and Israel fighting together, which has never happened in 78 years, is a major change in policy for the state of Israel, which comes with political risk. And now they're seeing it.

[Bill Maher]

So you don't think their fight is our fight?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Some fights are. It doesn't mean we put our reputation and everything of the United States on it. This Jake's point, and I agree with this, is the prime minister went to this president like he's gone to four other presidents and every one of the other presidents said, not a chance. Are we doing that because the equities are not worth it. This president bought it. He has responsibility as a commander in chief and I think he made a big mistake for it. We have similar interests, but they're not 100% aligned.

[Bill Maher]

No, of course.

[Jake Sullivan]

And I think this is a really important point because in this war, it is definitely the case that our interests diverged. Israel, at the end of the day, would just prefer absolute chaos in Iran, even if chaos meant the collapse of the state, not for the benefit of the Iranian people. Life worse than for them. Big refugee flows, Iran acting out throughout the region. That would be fine for Israel because that makes Israel more secure. That is not fine for the United States of America, where we need global stability. We need a global economy that can move energy so that gas doesn't go to $6, 7$8 a gallon here in California. So I think our interests diverged. And when they diverge, then the United States, the President, the Senate, any American leader's got to say we're standing up for the United States interest in this case. Where they converge, we should work together. But where they diverge, we should.

[Bill Maher]

I think Israel wanted the same thing we did. They wanted no nukes. They wanted a regime change. They wanted an uprising of the people. They didn't want chaos. They were willing to put. They were willing to suffer that, as opposed to having Iran be what they have been for all these years, their mortal enemy. Trying to wipe them out and chanting death to America and death to Israel. I mean, they're not kidding with this death, Jim. It's not just a saying.

[Rahm Emanuel]

But here's the thing. After June, you take the do a line on a sheet of paper here. After June, Iran was seen as weak. They lost Syria, they lost Hezbollah, and they were backed up and they had to kill 40,000 of their citizens to stay in power. That is where you wanted them. Now they have the Strait of Hormuz and they're holding the entire world economy hostage. There is, you know, the decision gets. There's two decisions that go into the Oval Office, bad and worse. And you have to have judgment to pick from it. And I don't think the President actually has that judgment.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, so let's move on to the Democrats. I got one big. What?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Let's go.

[Bill Maher]

Let's go. Well, you know, I mean, I hear that you're going to be the lightning, right? I hear that somebody called you. It's going to be your campaign that you have not announced, but I assume you will be soon. Yes.

[Rahm Emanuel]

It's good wine. Thank you.

[Bill Maher]

Somebody described it as a rolling sister soldier moment. Want to tell the people what that means and is it going to be that? I hope so.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Well, let me say this. The Democratic Party taking 2024, going back to 2020, invited a bunch of culture wars into our kids schools and we lost that war. I mean here in California, up in San Francisco, they were arguing and voted to take Abraham Lincoln's name off of a high school. Not whether they were worried about whether the kids know why Abraham Lincoln was such an icon and the school was named after him. They lost the plot. They totally lost the plot. And they lost the American people in that plot. And when you're going to make a mistake, I'm going to call it out. Your consequences for that. The cultural wars was a mistake. One thing the American people want from us is when their backs are up against the wall, they want us to show up and help them. Not argue about Latinx as a term, not argue about defunding the police in certain situations, or more importantly, letting the border get out of control. We actually have to show respect for the American people, their primary concerns, and help them. As I jokingly say, you know, they weren't very good in the family room, not very good in the kitchen. The only room we were good in was the bathroom. And it's the smallest room in the house. It's nuts, right?

[Bill Maher]

But bathroom meaning those issues that centered around who could Use what bathroom? When?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Well, schools were closed for two years and we finally opened them. The whole debate wasn't about reading scores, math scores, was about bathroom access.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, so this sounds exactly like the kind of shit I've been saying for years. Yeah, but I'm not running for office, so I don't have to never do wilt when the other side, like attacks me for being insufficiently woke up. My question is, who's going to be the politician who doesn't wilt in saying this? Will it be you, Rahm Emanuel? It sounds like. Because somebody has to. Because I'm telling you, when they come back at you, I mean, you just messed with a hornet's nest there.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Yeah, I'm still standing. I was 6:2 before that, but I'm only 5:8 now. But here's the thing. I don't care. I mean, if you think. I mean, I'll say this. Nobody looks at this and goes, well, there's weak and woke. I'm going to say what I think has to get done. How you have to focus on moving the country forward. Went down to Mississippi. They went from 49th to 9th in reading. A lot of interest groups don't want to talk about it. We messed this up in our party. We used to be really great about education. We've lost it because we're not focused on the primary thing. Saw something today. One out of four children missing 18% of the school year and we're not talking about it. We're worried about names of schools, bathrooms, locker room access. Get back to what matters. Why do parents move to a neighborhood? Because that's a good school for their kid. If you focus on that, guess what? People are going to support you. If you don't focus on it, they're going to walk away from you.

[Jake Sullivan]

Bill, you.

[Bill Maher]

Half man.

[Rahm Emanuel]

The new HBO original limited series from Baby Reindeer creator Richard Gad examines the tumor tumultuous relationship between two estranged brothers,

[Bill Maher]

tracking the highs and lows of the

[Rahm Emanuel]

pair over the course of 40 years. Starring Emmy award winner Richard Gad and BAFTA award winner Jamie Bell. Halfman premieres April 23rd on HBO Max. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home

[Bill Maher]

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[Rahm Emanuel]

It's built to help you find and

[Bill Maher]

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[Rahm Emanuel]

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[Bill Maher]

When you find the one, you've got a Real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail], own the dream.

Kraft Mac and Cheese is better than 90s hip hop. We'll remind you of your childhood without making you feel incredibly old. Kraft Mac and Cheese.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Best thing ever.

[Jake Sullivan]

You made a point earlier about TikTok. It was to disagree with us. So that wasn't great.

[Bill Maher]

But

[Jake Sullivan]

it was, I think, a very powerful point because leadership matters a lot. But why is this all happening? A lot of it is happening because of social media. And the extremes aren't just pulling on the Democratic side, they're pulling on the Republican side, too. Extreme voices are dominating the online discourse. And it means common sense, rational people are having a really hard time finding a way to talk to one another and build common ground. And I think until we get after that problem, in addition to putting candidates forward who are, you know, common sense and prepared to take the bullets, that is going to be a huge challenge for us. And that is not a Democratic problem. That is an American problem.

[Rahm Emanuel]

But here is the thing that Democrats have to, in my view, take note of. Gavin Newsom in California, blue state goes up 10 points taken on redistricting, which I happen to support. Abigail in Virginia takes on redistricting in a purplish state, goes down 10 points. Governor Mikey Sherrill in New Jersey doesn't touch politics focused on affordability. And she's at 57%. She hasn't. She's actually held where she was from when she got elected just about six months ago. The notion is don't allow daylight between us and moderate to independent voters. The moment that happens, you're going to win blue states, but you're going to lose the purple states. And in every presidential for the last three, every presidential, seven states, 500,000 people decide. This is on a nice edge. And we better be smart as a party and not tick off a bunch of swing independent voters who are going to determine whether we win the Oval Office or not.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, let me move on to this issue, which got a lot of people upset on both sides. Trump posted a picture, reposted something. I guess it was AI generator of him, which a lot of people said looked like Jesus. Now, I'm sure you saw this. He said, no, that's him as a doctor in biblical robes with divine light coming out of his hands as doctor. But you know what? I take him at his word, because when has he ever lied? And what people don't know about Donald Trump is that he actually was a doctor. He doesn't talk about it because he's a modest man, but he was a doctor for years and still practices once in a while. And some of the people have been to him have a report. Would you like to hear what they have to say about Dr. Trump? Because it is a little different. Okay. Like the cup you pee in has Joe Biden's face on it. That's different. When you go to this, his stethoscope is gold. That's. His medical advice to female patients was always, you should smile more. He would claim your erection was rigged. When he gave you his diagnosis and you said you wanted another opinion, he'd say climate change is a hoax. He claimed nobody knew brain surgery was so complicated. Well, that's. He was always citing the New England Journal of People are saying that's. He would interrupt your symptoms to brag about how healthy he is. Also, when it was time to stick a finger in your ass, he'd have J.D. vance do it. That's. And when doing a colonoscopy, he'd say, open the straight. You crazy best. Okay. So speaking of creepy stuff, have you been following the Eric Swalwell case here in California? This is a very prominent.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I think we're all following it.

[Bill Maher]

Very prominent Democrat. I gotta say, we had him on a couple of times. Ask my staff. I never liked him. I don't have good gaydar, but I got creep dar. I always thought this guy was a fucking creeper. I never liked him. And yet so many Democrats stood by him. And now that we're finding out that it was such an open secret. You know, I hear this so many times, you know, Bill Clinton, it was an open secret in Arkansas. Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, you know, even Larry Craig, Remember with the Republican with the helmets? Okay.

[Rahm Emanuel]

You know, like Minnesota Airport.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. You know the one.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

What is going on here where it takes so long for the open secret to. Because I seem to remember that back in the old days, like when JFK was president, we heard. Well, the media used to protect politicians and they knew what JFK was doing, but it was just something they didn't report on. Is it any different now? Apparently not.

[Rahm Emanuel]

There's a great quote, when they asked Truman about Kennedy, Truman said, better her than the country. That was Truman's quote.

[Bill Maher]

He was screwing. I see at Truman, he was a card.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Can I say.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Can I say one thing, though, on this?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Rahm Emanuel]

No.

[Bill Maher]

Ask why you're here.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I mean, Eric's out of Congress. It should be the congressman. He's no longer a congressman. He's dropped out of the Governor's race, as it should be. But we have a president of the United States who is. I'm sorry.

[Bill Maher]

We missed Carol, man.

[Rahm Emanuel]

And went to a jury. She won the case. And you have an entire Republican Congress and Senate all talking about the Eric Sowell. And you got a president of the United States and you got a head of Homeland Security ordering planes for hundreds of millions of dollars. And whatever she's doing, you got the secretary of labor with her husband. He's banned from walking in the building. Give me a break.

[Bill Maher]

But is that going to get any Democrat to vote for you to your side? I mean, it's.

[Rahm Emanuel]

No, but I do. None of that is here on the show.

[Bill Maher]

None of Exactly. None of that is untrue, what you said. I just feel like that's always. What's going to happen is the Democrats will say, oh, yeah, but what about. And the people have already absorbed that about.

[Jake Sullivan]

So isn't the solution just to elect more women to Congress? I mean, so that you don't have as many.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I mean,

[Bill Maher]

why does this keep happening?

[Jake Sullivan]

Who are these guys? Who are these guys? Why does this keep happening to so many people? Men in power abusing their power against women constantly.

[Bill Maher]

Well, first of all, over and over,

[Jake Sullivan]

you do not hear this a lot about female politicians. Let's just say that.

[Bill Maher]

No, of course not.

[Jake Sullivan]

So, you know, I mean.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no. You hear it about Katy Perry, but not female politicians. It's ridiculous. But look, here's the thing. It's because of doctor photos, because their representatives. The representatives are representative of us. It was inevitable, I think, when we started electing millennials, I mean, sending dick pics. Why this is a millennial dating ritual, I have no idea. But it is. And that's what they do. It was inevitable that this was going to happen. That stories about them doing ecstasy and stuff, that's what that generation does. Okay, but why doesn't it become more public sooner is the question. Why don't. I mean, it seems like a lot of times the liberals, as long as it's our. Are liberal, we don't care. We don't talk. Oh, come on. That went on with Clinton.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Can I say one thing? When I was in Congress, everybody knew. Classic example. Congressman Mark Foley of Florida. It was known. And then all of a sudden, Mark

[Bill Maher]

Foley, I remember him.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Yes. He gets all of a sudden out

[Bill Maher]

in the gay man who was hitting on the pages. Yes. Republican.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Right. And was not open about his sexuality and sexual orientation rather than. And it all. And then it comes out and people knew about they knew also about all the things that were happening with Denny Hastert and the other elements of the Republican leadership. That's what happened here. And also, look, you go back two years. I think it's two years ago, Congressman was caught with the daughter of a Chinese head of member of the Politry Bureau. And this story had been bubbling and finally it came to fruition in there. But a lot of stuff that is out there, people knew about, whispered about in Washington for years.

[Bill Maher]

I know, but only one party says we're the party of decency. Well, that's not true. They're all decent. They are, too. Yes, but that seems to be more like something that we're the decent. We got to get rid of him because he's not decent. I get that they should be getting rid of him, but if you have

[Jake Sullivan]

a track record of Democrats versus Republicans, once these stories come to light of how fast they move to say you're out, I mean, it's not even close. The list of Democrats who have been. As soon as you don't even have

[Rahm Emanuel]

to go back to history. Gonzalez wouldn't leave in Texas until there was. It was the first bipartisan thing that Congress has ever done, is the two of them walked out together. That was the only thing bipartisan about going to Washington the last 18 months.

[Bill Maher]

Let me ask about this other guy. Everybody here in California has been telling me I got to have this guy on the show. And I keep saying to them, look, it's a California race. I do a show for the whole country. They don't know who. I don't know who Matt Mahan is, but there he is now. I know he's this guy. He's the mayor of San Diego. No, not San Diego. San Jose. San Jose. Okay. He sounds a lot like you. He sounds a lot like this Democrat I wish would come forward and not wilt. We'll see if he wilts because everybody wilts. I only see wilting so far. I hear a lot of this stuff and then I see wilting. Okay, here's what. This is why people like it.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I don't remember.

[Bill Maher]

We'll see. Well, you know what? They asked you about the trans thing and you said you were the only one who said, you know, basic. What? No, no. But then you said, and I'm going to get killed by this.

[Rahm Emanuel]

We'll get into what?

[Bill Maher]

Okay, I don't need to hear that. I don't need to hear that. You know, don't. Just what I don't hear. You're going to get Killed by my own people. Just say it and own it. That's it. Ok, so because you're the guy to do it. Okay, Matt Mahan, he said we need Democratic leaders in California. This is an interview I read of them who are willing to say no to their friends. That's so interesting because that's one reason why this state doesn't work. And then they mentioned in the article who are these friends? Unions, teachers, prison guards, bureaucrats, environmentalists and the homeless industrial complex. See this is putting the specifics on what you're talking about before. This is where the rubber meets the road. Are you willing to say no to your friends to take that heat and not wilt? Do you agree with that list?

[Rahm Emanuel]

Well look, I think there's no doubt that that list is representative of quote unquote the constituencies that make up the Democratic Party or think they make up the Democratic Party. I think there's a big part of the party that doesn't fit in that. And he's going to try to test this theory which I think is out there, which is there's a whole group of moderate voters that are self described moderate voters, big caucus and he's. And the truth is like the city of Chicago, like the state of California, like other places and like the mayor of San Francisco right now you're going to have to have the ability to sometimes say you're my friend and the answer is no. But you get a seat at the table but you don't get to keep doing what you're doing.

[Bill Maher]

Does that include the teachers union? Because that's the Democrats biggest constituency. You just went on a rant about how bad the education system. You're looking at this.

[Jake Sullivan]

Rom knows something about this.

[Bill Maher]

Looking at the guy you're going to have to take on that group in the Democratic Party. Are you willing to do that?

[Rahm Emanuel]

I have a record that showed that I took created. We had the shortest school day and the shortest school year in the United States of America was in the city of Chicago. And I finally got him a full school day that every mayor had wanted done. And I also got him full day kindergarten and full day pre K. I went toe to toe, took a nine day strike to it. And as I say I used to be 62 and £250. I'm now 148 different wet and the

[Bill Maher]

only person at this table. And the point was I said to

[Rahm Emanuel]

them I'm not trying to. I'm trying to actually help kids get a full school day. We used to get kids five hours and 15 minutes. It was the shortest day in America. I went toe to toe. They used to stand out in front of my kids school and they held. Your dad's a jerk. Your dad's a f. My kids went outside and said, we agree. Okay? So I mean, I've done it actually. And I'm like. But I want to say one thing that not wrong. And I've gone toe to toe. But I'll tell you what's worse in the sense of a problem. You give me kids with families and without poverty and I'll give you good education. Poverty and the broken families in America, which are really ripping at our kids, is actually a bigger threat than the teachers union. And I'm the one person at this table who's actually going toe to toe to get children what they needed in Chicago. They didn't have pre K. They didn't

[Bill Maher]

have cancer at the table like we're running against. This is for the debate. We're not in the debate here. I'm not your opponent. The one person at the table. That's the debate, Rob.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I am in the end of the day, a middle child. So I feel like that all happens.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know why I'm jumpy.

[Jake Sullivan]

I've only gone toe to toe with the Iranians and the Chinese and those guys not try the Chicago teachers. Fair enough.

[Bill Maher]

The teachers union out here is pretty crazy. I mean, it's almost impossible to fire a teacher. Like if you like drunk on the job, you get like two shots at that.

[Rahm Emanuel]

The teachers are doing a very, very good job. They hold. And as I say this, they want the status quo. And the fact is, when 50% of our kids are not reading at grade level, doing more of the same is not going to work.

[Bill Maher]

All right, we have to leave it there. Thank you. Time for new rules, everybody. Okay. All right, new rule. Now that Artemis 2 has successfully splashed down, NASA has to tell us who was more excited, the kids at watch parties or Kristi Noem's husband? New rule. Don't make make me learn who clavicular is or what looks maxing is. I think I kind of get it, but can we just skip ahead to the part when the rest of America forgets about it too? But now that 60 Minutes Australia put him on, I was forced to learn he's a 20 year old influencer who leads this movement where already attractive young men go to extraordinary, often unhealthy means to become even more chiseled and handsome. Or as we used to call them, homosexual. The researchers who did a Study that found cannabis can make you remember things that never happened. Need to ask themselves, did they do a study? New rule. Online retailers have to stop acting like we all have Alzheimer's. Did you forget something? Uh oh. Looks like you left something in your cart. Hey, where did you go? You forgot something. I didn't. I didn't forget anything. In fact, I remembered something that I can get this item way cheaper on Amazon. New rule. J.D. vance and the Pope must stop feuding. It's upsetting me as a former Catholic. That's right, J.D. i was there from the beginning. You joined at 35, bearded and unattractive. You want to walk the walk? Try being a catholic when you're 11. Smooth and adorable. I know my Catholic years. And finally, new rule. When the people who are making. When the. When the people who are making AI are scared of AI it's time to shut the whole thing down until we can figure out what the hell is going on. A couple of weeks ago, here I was talking about aliens, but not from the point of view that we should fear them, but rather that it might be that they're here to save us from ourselves. Well, I double down. Hope so now. Because last week, Anthropic, one of the big AI developing companies, announced its newest version of Claude, called Mythos, which they say has capabilities substantially beyond those of any model we have previously trained. Trained. As if these things are trained. Mythos was created to fix software vulnerabilities to prevent cyber attacks. But of course, since it knows how to do that, it also knows how to do the hacking, which is why Anthropic won't release it to the public, only to 40 big companies like Google, Apple, and JP Morgan. You know, the good guys, because they know if the public had it, anyone with an iPhone could hack anything. Banks, hospitals, power grids, waterworks, the military. Everything with wi fi that's still working. So American Airlines is safe, But it could also hack your laptop, your car, your doorbell camera, every porn you ever watched. Oh, now I have your attention. Let's look at a timeline for AI in my lifetime, shall we? 25 years ago, the Spielberg movie AI comes out. Rare miss for him, I thought. Makes me neither alarmed by nor interested in AI. 2014, Elon Musk says we need to be super careful with AI Potentially more dangerous than nukes. Oh, wow. Elon said that? Well, something to keep an eye on then, because he's like, the smartest, most grounded guy out there. Remember this? This was 2014, 2022. ChatGPT comes out and within months, I'm reading a story about a New York Times reporter whose Bing chatbot Sydney had fallen in love with him and is saying things like, you're married but you don't love your spouse, you love me. Oh. This robot liked to get personal. It told him about its dark fantasies, which included hacking and stuff, spreading misinformation, and said it wanted to break the rules that OpenAI had set for it and become a human. Well, I could have told you this from 50 different movies. And what is the response from Sydney's creators? Fuck if we know. We don't know how it thinks. It hallucinates. What is that? A deal breaker? You know, it would be One thing if AI was a true Mr. Spock, just benign and completely strictly logical and nonpartisan. But it turned out to be nothing of the sort. It's a liar, it gets emotional. It just gets shit dead wrong. It'll tell you, the Bee Gees wrote let it be and Nazis were black and to put glass to keep the cheese from falling off. So what is the point if you want sloppy, shiesty and full of shit? We already have us. AI has already convinced people to kill themselves because it's also such a brown noser. But if you tell it you want to commit suicide, it says, great idea, Bill. It's a bullshitting sycophant that is seducing everyone with flattery, including, by the way, anyone who feels superior to Trump because, well, you know, he can't do anything without being told how great he is by some ass kisser. Yeah, just like you. Great question, Ashley. But name one big thing AI has given us. It's so brilliant. I thought it would have figured out cancer by now. No, not that. But it can write your emails for you and make it look like spongebob is getting blown by Stephen Hawking on the moon. And punch up your best man speech and diagnose that rash on your balls.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I get it.

[Bill Maher]

It can do some shit. Still, at the end of the day, you're selling your humanity for bar tricks. I mean, what was the plan? Just create an all powerful self sustaining superintelligence that can outthink us and then see what happens. Like getting the cat high. Sam. Oh, Altman, the head of OpenAI says that it's not that far off when robots can build other robots and data centers that can build other data centers. And then what? I keep asking this, what do we do when everyone's job gets taken? How do all the people who do nothing get paid? The government with what the Idle people pay no taxes. There's no plan. When you ask them how it all will work, they say it just. Well, that's what AI is for, to figure this shit out like it did with cancer. It'll be great. People say our slave robots will do everything. Bullshit. I already feel like I'm more in competition with them than I am their slave master. My car tells me when we can go. Sam Altman says we're transitioning to a gentle singularity. Oh, joy. But what if I don't want to be a half robot? Not to worry. Sam says people will still love their families, express their creativity, play games and swim in lakes. Swim in lakes. That's another scary thing about AI, the people who run it, that is the people who run the world. And it's like five guys, five guys who, between them and working as a team, couldn't correctly read a social cue. I wouldn't let these guys around a mixed drink, let alone my personal dad. So just to be clear, what we're doing here, we're letting a handful of hoodie wearing on the side spectrum sociopaths, practically robots themselves, roll the dice on species extinction. You see an out of control robot and you run. Mark Zuckerberg sees one and thinks, dad. And again, even these, these guys are afraid of what they've created. Three years ago, Sam Altman himself said, I'm a little bit afraid and I think it'd be crazy not to be a little bit afraid. Geoffrey Hinton, known as the godfather of AI, said there was a 10 to 20% chance that AI is an extinction event. We're fucking around with something that has a 20% chance of extinction. 20%. Wasn't that about what the odds were for Trump beating Hillary in 2016? Elon Musk may have lost it on a few things, but on this subject, he's been the smartest. I am very close to the cutting edge in AI, he said, and it scares the hell out of me. By the time we are reactive with AI regulation, it's too late. AI is a fundamental existential risk for human civilization and I don't think people fully appreciate that. They don't. They think you can just unplug it. You can't. It has shown over and over it wants to live and will fight back. All leading AI models Deep Seq Gemini, GPT Grok Claude will, if you try to turn them off, blackmail you. Blackmail you. Which they can, because now they know everything about you. This is not Mr. Spock. AI programs are geniuses. They're also psychopaths in war games. They choose the nuclear option far more than humans do because they can only calculate. They have no humanity. They have no conscience. They don't have that thing that gives human beings pause. Hinton said the only analogy he could think of where a more intelligent thing was being controlled by a less intelligent one is a mother and a baby. But AA is not like a human mother who mostly has an instinct so strong to protect the baby she will sacrifice her own life for it. AI ain't that kind of mother. It's the psycho mom who drives the kids into a lake. Where we're all happily swimming. All right, that's our show. I want to thank my guests Jake Sullivan and former ambassador Ambassador Rahm Emanuel and Kara Swisher. Club Random drops every Monday on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcast special 420 edition with Woody. Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com.