Gavin Newsom (7:20)

Good to be home.

Bill Maher (7:26)

Okay, so. All right, so you heard what I ended there with the billionaire tax. And I know you are against the billionaire tax. So this is interesting to people who don't live here and follow it. They would think, oh, Gavin Newsom, far lefty, he's going to be for the billionaire tax. But you're not.

Gavin Newsom (7:44)

Well, I think billionaires do need to be taxed more, but just not at the state level. Capital moves. And the challenge with this particular tax is it doesn't include firefighters and teachers. They're left out of the tax. It's one time and we've already seen dozens and dozens of people leave the state. But my state of mind is crystal clear. At a federal level, the imbalance between the rich and the poor has got to be addressed. And the issue of ultra wealthy folks like Buffett, folks like Bezos, folks like Bloomberg, paying 1 to 2% tax. You pay Bill a hell of a lot more.

Bill Maher (8:18)

I talked about it last week. They taxed the shit out of us, the regular rich.

Gavin Newsom (8:23)

Yeah.

Bill Maher (8:24)

No one stands up to the regular rich.

Gavin Newsom (8:27)

No one standing up.

Bret Stephens (8:29)

And two with the points.

Gavin Newsom (8:30)

So for the ultra wealthy, we've got to deal with a stepped up basis. We've got to deal with the fact that we're not taxing capital gains at income tax or ordinary income. We got to address the fact they're borrowing against tax about their capital gains and they're passing on these massive trusts without any taxation to the next generation. All of that needs to happen, but this particular tax is not the answer.

Bill Maher (8:50)

Okay, but we're not here to talk about politics. You're you. What.

Gavin Newsom (9:02)

Do you want to talk about?

Bill Maher (9:03)

Your book.

Gavin Newsom (9:03)

Oh, that's it. A politician with a book.

Bill Maher (9:06)

You forgot what you're doing?

Gavin Newsom (9:07)

I forgot. This is a book tour.

Bill Maher (9:09)

You're on a book tour.

Gavin Newsom (9:10)

I'm on a book tour. A young man in a hurry.

Bill Maher (9:12)

Exactly. See, this is about the book. We're not talking about. It's just about the book.

Gavin Newsom (9:17)

Yes, sir.

Bill Maher (9:17)

How is the book affecting your campaign for president?

Gavin Newsom (9:23)

Well, no, it's a. I know it's a cliche.

Bill Maher (9:26)

I will say this. I don't know why everybody running for president, not that you are, wink, wink, has to write a book. But this one is different. It is not your typical book that a politician writes. It's better. First of all, it's not sentimental.

Gavin Newsom (9:40)

No.

Bill Maher (9:40)

And it's really your voice.

Gavin Newsom (9:42)

Yes.

Bill Maher (9:42)

You know it's what?

Gavin Newsom (9:45)

No, I appreciate. Keep going.

Bill Maher (9:47)

I'm enjoying this. It is. I mean, and, you know, it's honest in the sense that, you know, you didn't have the easy time. A lot of people think.

Gavin Newsom (9:56)

Yeah.

Bill Maher (9:57)

You had what I would call a normal fucked up family. Every family's a little messed up, right? And that.

Gavin Newsom (10:04)

Yeah. Teenage mom, divorced family, a mom that worked two, three jobs all her life, and a father that was distant years and years trying to connect with him. And finally I was able to do it, and he was there for the day. I got elected governor, passed away shortly thereafter. And so it's a story that's very familiar with a lot of folks, and it's a story that's really a love letter to single moms. My rock star mom that just did everything. Sacrifice for me, so. But, Bill, I appreciate what you're saying.

Bret Stephens (10:31)

This.

Gavin Newsom (10:31)

This is not a book, you know, this is not some triumphant BS book. I mean, I tried to scrutinize my life. I wasn't trying to sanitize anything. And I went back all my mistakes. If you don't like me, you should buy this in bulk because there's all kinds of issues there that can exploit. But it's an honest portrayal of this young man in a hurry. You put a mask on, and my face started growing into it, and I was becoming someone that I didn't want to be. And a big part of why I wrote it was just let go and just, you know, just start to be myself, warts and all. And love me or hate me.

Bill Maher (11:03)

Well, they will pick out things like that in the campaign and use them against you. I know. I'm just saying.

Gavin Newsom (11:08)

What campaign are you keep referring to?

Bill Maher (11:14)

Unbelievable. You're right. Unbelievable.

Gavin Newsom (11:16)

Bill, really?

Bill Maher (11:18)

Really. I meant your book. Do

Bill Maher (11:23)

you.

Bill Maher (11:24)

No, but I mean, as the. Well, you are officially the frontrunner. I mean, they do polling and you are the front runner of the Democratic Party. Okay. That's just a fact, And I appreciate it. As the heat gets heatier, it must worry you. I mean, what you saw this weekend in Washington, not just coming after you, obviously, when you run for a. The horrible things people write and people say. And there is nothing off limits to take you down.

Bret Stephens (11:55)

No.

Bill Maher (11:56)

And you've already been there. But it only gets worse the closer you get to the prize.

Gavin Newsom (12:00)

That's right.

Bill Maher (12:01)

What did you think when you saw that this weekend?

Gavin Newsom (12:03)

Well, evil. I mean, you know, you got to condemn it. You got to call it out. And so I don't like the rhetoric on either side. We all have to be held to a higher level of accountability. So, you know, that's easy to condemn, but there's also an asymmetry here. You have the President of the United States that sets the tone and tenor for this country. And that's not a partisan statement. That's an institutional statement. He's the president, and you just made the point. What did he do the day after he talked about, you know, a beach photo and an indictment of one of his enemies? He talked about his ballroom, his Kremlin ballroom. He's not doing anything to try to unite this country in any way, shape or form. And, you know, for me, that's, to me, that's the biggest reflection of this moment is how just the sewer that we're now living in because of Donald Trump. And he's allowed all of it, us to feel free to shove again. And I think if nothing else, forget.

Bill Maher (12:57)

But many people would say that you are imitating him. Among all the people who may or may not be running, you are the one who kind of imitates his style with the trolling. You're suing Fox. Now, I understand you're saying that's right

Gavin Newsom (13:12)

on discovery, Fox better look to settle right now or apologize for defamation.

Bill Maher (13:16)

Okay, but that sounds exactly like what he does, suing media, different point.

Gavin Newsom (13:20)

Well, then don't defame, don't lie. And you know, Fox again.

Bill Maher (13:23)

But that does sound like him.

Gavin Newsom (13:25)

Well, here's the point. I'm trying to put a mirror up to Donald Trump.

Bill Maher (13:27)

Yeah.

Gavin Newsom (13:28)

And I think it's important with the sense of humor as well. The deviation of normalcy is off the chart. This is a guy cosplaying as the Pope dressing up as Jesus. This guy putting his face on Mount Rushmore, doing it. In all, Cap, none of this is normal. And you may recall when I first started doing this, the folks on Fox said, oh, this is so unbecoming of the governor of California. He should wash out his mouth with soap and water with no situational awareness that their dear leader has been doing this for years and years and years. He's a man child. And so I think it's important to call that out, the dignity of the President of the United States. But again, we're not trying to dehumanize. We're just trying to reflect that reality and express the absurdity of all of this. And look, the absurdity, it's every day. It's a corruption story. The Trump administration, you referenced it obliquely in the opening monologue. But let's get serious. He's Got eight or nine countries. He's done major golf course or development deals. It's meme coins and stablecoins. It's crypto. It's World Liberty Financial. It's getting, you know, a piece of the peace. I mean, this peace board is about getting a piece for Wyckoff and for Kushner. You see Donald Trump Jr. In the drone companies, in the mineral companies. You're seeing the kind of corruption that's not, you know, it's not $60 Bibles, it's not sneakers, it's not $100,000 watches. It's the greatest grift we've ever seen in our lifetime. And that also needs to be called out. We can't allow any of this. This to be normalized. So our social media is part of that. And that's why we gotta continue to be accountable.

Bill Maher (15:07)

Okay, well, that's all true. And it's gonna be a great part of your platform. The other side, what they're gonna say, though, is. But have you seen the stats from California?

Gavin Newsom (15:19)

Good. Fourth largest economy. Let's go.

Bill Maher (15:24)

Are they gonna say good about gas prices? Are they gonna say good about how high the rents are? So many people. I mean, there's a whole litany. I mean, the train, Gavin, you gotta get rid of the train.

Gavin Newsom (15:35)

The train. We gotta.

Bill Maher (15:36)

I say this as a friend. You gotta let that train go. Let the train go. It's up to $231 billion.

Gavin Newsom (15:41)

That's not. That's just not. It's not. We're doing $119 million segment. We got it back on track. It goes back three administrations and inherited a mess. We put it back on track. All the environmental work is behind us. We're actually laying the track. All the legal litigation, all the land issues are all behind us. We're actually making this project work. And so that's a fact. Now on the issue of California.

Bill Maher (16:03)

Well, it's been a long time coming.

Gavin Newsom (16:04)

Of course it has. And you can't make up for the past. I can only make up for my segment, literally and figuratively as governor over the last seven years. But look, you talk about California where the envy of the world since I've been governor, no other developed nation has outperformed the our economy. No other state has outperformed the economy of state of color.

Bill Maher (16:25)

Do you think people feel that on the.

Gavin Newsom (16:27)

They may not feel that in every way, shape or form, but we dominating every key industry. We dominate manufacturing, agriculture, hunting jobs, forestry jobs. More scientists, more Nobel laureates, more researchers, more. The higher System of higher education, the finest in the world. More venture capital. You talk about the future. You're talking about California and AI and quantum on fusion, on space. California is dominant. We also have seen the last three years population growth. We've got to update our talking points. We've seen a 9% decline in unsheltered homelessness. Got to update our talking points. We've seen a 60% increase in permits for housing. We've got to update talking points. I'm very proud of the state of California.

Bill Maher (17:18)

When I see this.

Gavin Newsom (17:19)

Oh, God, here we go.

Bill Maher (17:21)

I see a front run. I see this thing with the hand.

Gavin Newsom (17:24)

Unbelievable. Look at that.

Bill Maher (17:29)

So there's a governor race going on here now. Any favorites for who's up here?

Gavin Newsom (17:35)

I'm not avoid it. Like, I mean, my only. The only thing I'm focused on is making sure that Democrats don't get locked out. It's an open primary, just two Republicans running, lots of Democrats running. Democrats diluting top two. So let's make sure there's a Republican and a Democrat in the runoff.

Bill Maher (17:50)

Okay. I want to read a statement. I read. Remember Barney Frank? He's ailing. I wanted to say, if he's watching, we love you. I used to always say he's my favorite congressman. Yeah, he was my favorite. Yeah. He said it's. Democrats have embraced an agenda that goes beyond what's politically acceptable. What do you think he means by that? Do you think you're going to. I don't know.

Gavin Newsom (18:15)

I think maybe talking about some of the things you've talked about for years and things that I've brought up as well, is around being more culturally normal, which comes across something very negatively.

Bill Maher (18:25)

What does that mean?

Gavin Newsom (18:26)

Which I understand. I just. We have to. Words matter. The way we talk about things matter. Getting stuck in, you know, identity politics, too.

Bill Maher (18:33)

Right.

Gavin Newsom (18:33)

In some of the policies, not all.

Bill Maher (18:35)

Is there anything you're going to say California was too far left on? Because I feel like if you don't, I think a lot of the country is not going to listen.

Gavin Newsom (18:42)

Yeah. Look, I mean, I think there's a lot of things that, you know, I've said this in the past, things I could have done better, more. I look back at Covid, we just put out a detail over a thousand pages. What we did right and wrong during COVID as it relates to the issues of outdoor and beaches being shut down, schools being shut down for too long. But we also made the point we had a lower death rate than any other large state, that our economy recovered faster than any other large state, and we have one of the fastest vaccine rollouts in the country. So there's good and bad on the issue of housing and homelessness, what we could have done more aggressively sooner. But on social issues, where I think you tend to be leaning towards. You know, I've also. I've made my point of view known as it relates to issues of sports and transports, which I just think is. It's not being transphobic to me, common sense. But I get how people are sensitive to that because that's been weaponized and people have been talked down to and the community's been abused by those that want to take advantage of this politically. So there's a sensitivity in all that. But look, if we're in identity space, if we're fighting the last culture war, we're toast. And perhaps that's what Barney's referring to. And that's what you've been preaching.

Bill Maher (19:48)

Yeah.

Gavin Newsom (19:49)

And practicing, I think, appropriately for a long, long time.

Bill Maher (19:52)

Well, you know, I. I certainly practice on my podcast, which I'd like you to do, Club Random, where I practice something that is legal.

Gavin Newsom (20:05)

And by the way, who legalized that?

Bill Maher (20:06)

You did.

Gavin Newsom (20:07)

I just want to go on record.

Bill Maher (20:09)

I just want to go on record. Good luck with the book.

Gavin Newsom (20:12)

Thank you.

Bill Maher (20:13)

And whatever else you may be doing. Whatever else we are. Governor Gavin Newsom. Thank you, pal. All right, let's meet our panel. Okay. He is a Pulitzer Prize winning opinion columnist for the New York Times. Bret Stephens is over here. A bearded Bret Stephens, and she's the head of King's College, Cambridge, and a columnist for the Financial Times, Gillian Tett. Hey, good to see you again. Okay, well, let's get the ugly news about the political violence out of the way first because we have to talk about it. I'm just going to vomit my take on it, and then you can argue. I would just like to say, if you're one of these people, and there's many in this country who watch that and was disappointed the President wasn't killed. See, they're laughing at that. You're not a good person or a smart person, but definitely not a good person. I was reading this in your paper with Governor Pritzer of Illinois, and they asked him, like, what does the next president have to be? And he said, good, decent and kind, which. Who can disagree with that? And certainly Trump has often not been good, decent or kind.

Bret Stephens (21:29)

Right.

Gavin Newsom (21:29)

But also.

Bill Maher (21:29)

But he's not Hitler.

Bret Stephens (21:31)

You can't say that you are fighting for democracy or a believer in democracy. And at the same time, excuse Political violence as a mechanism for political change, it's one or the other. And that's the essence of our system, that it gives us the opportunity to change things through the will of the people and not through the barrel of a gun. And people who don't get that don't understand the basis of the system they are supposedly championing.

Bill Maher (22:07)

If you look at opinion polls, it's scary how much a proportion of Gen Z are now saying that they support some form of political violence to express, you know, their opposition. And that's got to change. I mean, that is simply not, as Bret says, the way to build a democracy. And it took King Charles to come over to America to essentially give a lecture about democracy.

Bill Maher (22:30)

Well,

Bill Maher (22:33)

and it's probably, it was probably about the only lecture about democracy that President Trump, AKA King Trump would actually listen to.

Bill Maher (22:41)

I mean, you British really don't want to let go of that democracy. I am both American. You really, really.

Bill Maher (22:46)

I'm actually both, I swing both ways. I'm American and British.

Bret Stephens (22:50)

But you know, when you mention Gen Z, I also think that it's a function of an educational system that for way too long thought that censoriousness was a mechanism for social change. That telling people to shut up, that their views were wrong, that you could shout down speakers, that you could disinvite people from your campus, you didn't have to listen to the other side. You could go and occupy a college campus because you believed in, say, you know, Palestinian rights and you wanted to champion globalizing the intifada. Eventually that has consequences. I mean, there's a reason why you're seeing this kind of sense of permission among younger people for violent behavior. Because if you think globalized, the intifada is like a cool slogan to chant at some point, whether it's the intifada or some other trendy political cause, someone in that group is going to believe it's true and they're going to act on it.

Bill Maher (23:51)

And it's not just universal church. I mean, a lot of this is actually TikTok, YouTube, all the kind of social media that presents these very simple one dimensional solutions and assume that you can basically treat life like a video game and if you don't like it, go bang bang and it's over.

Bill Maher (24:10)

But some of the rhetoric is not just from TikTok. I get why that's a sewer, but this is mainstream. I mean, it's funny because I remember when the shoe was on the other foot and the liberals used to always say, and they were right to say it, that A lot of this very violent rhetoric that we hear on the left, it inspires the borderline personality to then do something. And they were right. I never thought they were wrong. But the shoe's on the other foot now. I mean, it's on both feet. But you got to own this kind of rhetoric. And, you know, if you call Trump, this is why I was against this he's Hitler bullshit. I mean, if you really believe that he is a Hitler McPedophile, then you kind of have to kill him. That's the mentality they have.

Bill Maher (24:55)

Well, both sides. You've got extremists on both sides. And the tragedy is most Americans, the majority of Americans, actually, are pretty centrist and don't like either extremes. But the political system is pulling us both ways right now.

Bret Stephens (25:07)

I think it's true. And I don't think that anyone who supports Trump and is horrified by the violence that they saw at the correspondence dinner or the two previous assassination attempts, they all have to take a big step back and ask themselves, how are they supporting a president whose tweets or social media posts whose rhetoric is consistently trying to delegitimize his political opponents? Trump did it not with one Democratic president, President Obama, calling into question his birth certificate, but with President Biden as well. And I just would like to ask people on the right, imagine if this had happened two or three years ago when President Biden was in office and the killer was some guy, or the would be assassin was some guy with a manifesto saying that Biden stole the election of 2020. Where would he have gotten that rhetoric? So there needs to be a deep, you know, chill in terms of the way in which we speak about our political opponents.

Bill Maher (26:10)

But here's the thing, Brett. I mean, you know, Diane Train is a cultural anthropologist, and anthropologists have pointed out that a lot of what, my first mistake, apparently. Yeah. But there's a lot of the rhetoric and stylistic, you know, performative approach that Trump has borrowed from the wrestling ring. If you look at how he's actually presenting himself politically, and an awful lot of it is about calling each other names and stage managing this fake conflict like it's a game. And so in a wrestling ring, it's fine, you can shout violence against each other, but then you take it to real life.

Bill Maher (26:45)

Today, we are talking about assassination, actually putting someone to death. What I'm saying here is that there is a problem with. Of course, whatever you said about, just said about Trump is true. And everything he tweets out and everything. There is a little Bit of a difference between that and people who think we're in a mess in this country. The way out of this mess is, is he dies. That's what a lot of people think. And I'm just telling you that's. I don't think you're a good person there. I wouldn't want to be that person who thinks that way also. It's just not smart. You think that's going to solve the problem? He would be a martyr. First of all, they tried impeaching.

Bret Stephens (27:25)

J.D. vance would be president.

Bill Maher (27:27)

Well, yeah. I mean, Maga's not going to die. They'd probably get. We tried impeaching. That didn't work. We tried going to the courts. That didn't work. The only way this actually works, it's happening. His popularity is at the lowest level. It is. Even among his core supporters are falling off. The only way this ends is at the ballot box, like in Training Day, when Denzel goes to the neighborhood and they've all turned on him and he's like, I'm King Kong up in here. And they're like, no, you're not anymore. That is the only way it actually ends.

Bret Stephens (28:02)

One brief additional point, which is that the left, including the hard left, has to learn how to speak about Trump without immediately equating him to Hitler.

Bill Maher (28:11)

I just said that.

Bret Stephens (28:12)

You can be bad and not draw your line. You can be bad and not Hitler. You can be wrong. You can be a worrying president at the same time. Now I'm repeating you. The best way to do it is. Is to argue your case.

Bill Maher (28:27)

Yeah. Once you start with Hitler, it's like anytime you do. We've seen it in many places in the world where they make someone into. Whether it's Rwanda or, you know, the Hutus saying the Tutsi were vermin or the Hutus somebody was vermin. I remember the Tutsis, whatever it was. And then the next, whenever you dehumanize someone to that degree, people are going, oh, I'm doing the. I'm a hero. This guy wasn't crazy. Crazy. Like, he wasn't hearing some. You know, the dog wasn't talking to him in the moon. He just was, like, watching, you know, the social media. Yeah, yeah.

Bret Stephens (28:59)

The more virtuous you think you are.

Bill Maher (29:00)

And Media.

Bill Maher (29:01)

Media, yes.

Bret Stephens (29:02)

The more virtuous you think you are, the more you have permission to behave diabolically.

Bill Maher (29:07)

But can I go back to what Brett was saying is actually, universities have a duty to teach their students, the kids, about civilized, intelligent, respectful debate, about listening to all Sides of an argument about separating out an idea from a person and actually realizing you can have a furious row and then be friends with that person afterwards.

Bill Maher (29:28)

And that is fearful. Okay, so another aspect of this I think that is new, which is that people now, when something like this happens way more than they ever used to before, go right to the conspiracy stage. I mean this was always something. But I never heard the term false flag operation until I think it was the Sandy Hook shooting. Now that's immediate. We go right to that.

Bill Maher (29:53)

Ok, so anthropologists have looked at this a lot over centuries. And whenever you have people losing trust in the system and, or in a state of great anxiety, you get conspiracy theories flourishing. They're not new. But right now we have those two conditions in America which are stoking up endless conspiracy theories. And of course social media and the digital world amplifies that.

Bret Stephens (30:15)

But can I blame the universities since you're here?

Bill Maher (30:18)

Okay, I'm a target.

Bret Stephens (30:20)

I think this has something to do with the decline in critical thinking skills.

Bill Maher (30:26)

You know, I remember watching.

Bret Stephens (30:28)

Okay, well I want to come back on this. You know, I remember watching, I think one of the Armstrong or Aldrin, one of the people who landed on the moon talking about, you know, the conspiracy theory about. And they made the point 400,000 people would have to be in on the secret and have to have kept the secret for decades.

Bill Maher (30:47)

Exactly. No, but I mean that is where we are. We go right to. It was staged. Everything was staged. You know, they don't believe, they thought the assassination in Butler. I remember refuting lots of people who I thought were rather intelligent people. And I'm like, how could it be staged? They shot the guy, the guy behind him got the bullet. It's like we don't have the bullet,

Bill Maher (31:13)

but now we have AI. So of course people think things are staged because it's becoming harder and harder to tell what's actually man made and what's silicon made. I mean that's a problem.

Bret Stephens (31:21)

Yeah, but we also have, we also have people who don't know. Like the concept that. As if you have two explanations. The simpler one is probably the right one. Occam's razor. It's a thousand years old.

Bill Maher (31:33)

I'd like to push back on what Brett said about universities. I do agree with you. Universities, the criticalness point. Overseeing King's College, we are fighting to have not just critical thinking developed, to have proper debate between the students and to also have them forced to talk about their ideas at length in front of a professor.

Bret Stephens (31:51)

And I was actually all universities other than Cambridge and the University of Chicago

Bill Maher (31:55)

are to blame here at Chicago. So I'll say one other thing, which is that I was chatting ahead of American University the other day. He said, well, we're having to change our mission statement. Are you? I said, well, actually King's College was founded in 1441 by King Henry VI who had his mission statement in pursuit of education, religion, learning and research. Now, the religion part may be a bit controversial now, but that four part mission statement from 40:41 is basically what universities should be doing. Education, learning and research.

Bill Maher (32:27)

Okay, well we can get back to this, but I just want to say this thing about everything is staged. There is a magazine out now because people are so unto this theory all the time that something is staged and we got a hold of it. Would you like to see some of the articles and stage where is my. Where is my copy of staged magazine? Everything. Look at this. Everything is for example, some of the articles. This week we spoke to the crisis actor who's been playing your neighbor since 2017. That's. Exclusive photos. Will Smith and Chris Rock rehearsing the slide. Did Neil Armstrong's wife fake it. Was Gettysburg faked. 51,000 witnesses conveniently killed. Where are they now? Our interview with Jeffrey Epstein. Suspicious. We asked 12 scientists why the moon is visible at 2pm and all 12 hung up on us. Oh, the demons that have Tucker Carlson in his sleep break their silence. Brad and Angelina together again. New clues from the back of the $1 bill. Alex Jones. Get rid of your soon to be worthless US dollars by sending them. And you won't believe who writes your text messages and how they convince you it's you. Okay? So thank you very much. So you this episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home

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Bill Maher (35:14)

I've heard of that.

Bill Maher (35:15)

Yeah. What is that? Back to the 17th century. Harvard is 1636.

Bret Stephens (35:19)

18th century for Yale.

Bill Maher (35:21)

Yeah. Oh, okay. All right.

Bill Maher (35:22)

What about Chicago?

Bret Stephens (35:23)

Oh, like late 19th century.

Bill Maher (35:25)

Yeah. Anyway, they wanted to study themselves. Why? The trust in higher education was so in the toilet, which it is, some of the things. Tuition is too high, way too much bureaucracy, unfair admission standards. Certainly Asian people have sued about that. And I think one great inflation. But mostly it is indoctrination. What we were just talking about at Yale, it's 36 to 1 the number of Democrats to Republicans who work at that school. 36 to 1. Even if you're a Democrat, you shouldn't think that that's a good thing. It's not. It's never. It's why this state is fucked up in some ways is because there's nobody checking one side. And they just do not like the idea that teachers now or the professors, whatever, see it as more a job of enforcing a political opinion than just instructing people. They see themselves as some sort of red guard. I think a lot of them, certainly the ones you hear about, and they seem to want to just point the kids in a direction instead of just telling the kids what happened, what the facts are, and let the kids make up their own mind. Is that not accurate?

Bill Maher (36:35)

Well, I haven't been at Yale, so I won't speak for Yale. I will give them some credit for having this.

Bill Maher (36:40)

All these elite schools.

Bill Maher (36:41)

Well, yeah, I would disagree that teachers necessarily do that. I think issues around legacy admissions, high fees and more.

Bill Maher (36:48)

You think teachers don't do that here in America?

Bill Maher (36:50)

I think they do to some degree, in some context. However, it's not just about that. It's also about the legacy admissions, the high fees, the completely screwed up system for handing out grades, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a bundle of things. Kudos to Yale for having looked at themselves and having issued this report. Because, frankly, I can't imagine the White House doing anything like that anytime soon.

Bill Maher (37:09)

No. And of course, can you imagine the

Bill Maher (37:10)

White House issue a report?

Bill Maher (37:12)

Of course. And of course, they had to overreact to the situation. Like many things that the White House does, they identify something that really is a problem. Sometimes the town doesn't need cleaning up, and then they clean it up in the wrong way. They cut off medical funding. What the fuck does that have to do with this?

Bill Maher (37:25)

Absolutely. Well, Brett has got a great column on this.

Bret Stephens (37:27)

So, look, I mean, I think it's a little bit different with the White House. I mean, administrations are supposed to be partisan, but the point of a campus is to have an opportunity to engage with points of view that are radically different. From your own. Like, I don't necessarily think that Yale needs an even balance of Democrats and Republicans. But the danger you have is that at elite institutions, you are getting echo chambers. And echo chambers are deadly for productive critical thinking. And what has to happen isn't for schools like Yale to set up little conservative islands or institutes or have a token faculty member. What they need to do is to make sure that in every department, the people who are in the faculty are skeptics, contrarians, non conformists, gadflies. That was there when I was at University over 30 years ago, again at Chicago. It has to be there at every major American university. Otherwise, we are graduating young people who think that they are much smarter and much better critical thinkers than they are. And there's nothing worse than people who think they're smarter or brighter than they really are.

Bill Maher (38:36)

Well, we couldn't agree, so we could, for the benefit of any students watching, we can stage manage a kind of Socratic debate. If you want, I can disagree with you, but we kind of agree on this, unfortunately.

Bill Maher (38:49)

Okay. So I'm glad we can end that there because there's a bigger story that we have to get to, which is the Voting Rights act, which is the big story this week because the Supreme Court ruled on. It's so funny. It was only one week ago we were talking about gerrymandering because the state of Virginia decided to. And again, Trump started this with Texas. Texas, let's gerrymander Texas, then Virginia, then, you know, California. We responded. Now we're gerrymandering. California and Virginia went all in on it. Now the Supreme Court's involved and the Voting Rights act is involved. And now it seems like, you know, I said last week, race to the bottom. That race took one week. We're already at the absolute bottom. If you don't know what the Voting Rights act It is from 1965, 20 years ago, when they voted to re up it, it was completely uncontroversial. 98 to 0 in the Senate. And, Jer, let's be honest. The Voting Rights act itself is gerrymandering. We've always had gerrymandering. No computer ever drew a district. Humans always did it. And what they were doing with the Voting Rights act was saying, we're going to draw some districts where black folks can't lose, as it should be, because otherwise you could draw the map in such a way, which, as they're doing now, Louisiana is a third black. You could draw it so that all those people. We're not stopping anyone from voting they're voting. They just won't get a representative in Congress because we're going to draw the map in such a way as that everywhere they vote, they only get 40% of the vote. Assuming that they vote for the Democratic Party. But that's a fair assumption.

Bill Maher (40:19)

If you're simultaneously saying this is so critical, if you're simultaneously saying the way to deal with a president you don't like is go to the polling booth, not with a gun, then you have to fight with every sinew in your body to ensure that the voting system is credible and trusted. And right now, You want to know why? You know why Gen Z is going to violence? It's because people don't trust the voting system. And that's tragic.

Bret Stephens (40:47)

I mean, I think there are two issues at stake. One is the question of the gerrymander. And I think the biggest mistake was made not last week, but it was made seven years ago with a Supreme Court case called Ruscho v. Common Cause, which basically said that courts could not intervene to prevent outrageously gerrymandered districts. And gerrymandering basically means that the politician gets to choose his voters rather than the voter getting to choose their politicians. What we're talking about here is a question of racial gerrymandering in 1965, racial gerrymandering for the sake of ensuring black representation in Southern states. And in 1965, that was without question the right thing to do. It was without question the right thing to do in 1985 and perhaps in 2005. But that had to end at some point. And one of the points that you often make on this show, Bill, is that there has been a lot of racial progress in this country. And so at some point, that principle that we were going to have to create special districts for the sake of ensuring minority representation, at some point, that was going to have to end. I think the question was, is 2026 the year in which to end it? And maybe the answer is, after we've had a black president, after blacks have been so. Have had so much success and achievement in American life on their own merit, isn't it time to finally end this? And in that sense, I think the court did the right. Made the right call.

Bill Maher (42:18)

You think they made the right call in this case? Yes, I think it's gonna. I think this is. They're gonna look back and think this is like. I mean, we've heard a lot of talk about a civil war. This is like a step toward that. Because I saw the map, the picture of the map of what it's going to look like there's going to be no black congresspeople from the South. You think you can cut off the part of the country that has the most African Americans in it and that map is like completely red. Maybe there's a few. Maybe just the central Atlanta or someplace like that where it's going to. And you think people are just going

Bret Stephens (42:53)

to take that line as a result? I will absolutely eat crow. That's wrong. Okay. What I think what you're going to have, what you think you're actually going to have is you're going to have black representation, but a lot more of it is going to be Republican.

Bill Maher (43:05)

But Brit, we're facing a situation right now where public trust in democracy, in Congress, in voting is collapsing. Why would you do it now? How is this going to rebuild trust in any way, shape or form in the system?

Bret Stephens (43:17)

Well, I mean, public trust is collapsing on both sides.

Bill Maher (43:20)

So why make it worse?

Bret Stephens (43:22)

Well, I don't think it's making it worse because I think that the basis of our system is not to have racial gerrymanders of any form for whites or blacks, to have an actual principle of racial and color neutrality. I think that's the American Standard. Now, in 1965, it was a very, very different period. We were just emerging from Jim Crow and decades of segregation. I don't think we're in 1965.

Bill Maher (43:48)

We're definitely not. We're definitely not. But we're not living in the future either.

Bill Maher (43:52)

Yeah, basically what's happening,

Bill Maher (43:57)

we are, in fact living in the future.

Bill Maher (43:59)

You're harboring every, every single political, each political tribe now racing to become more tribal, not less. You're talking in the one hand combating echo chambers. You're creating echo chambers all over the place by doubling down on the concentration in terms of political sorting.

Bill Maher (44:13)

So what do you think the Democrats should do about it? Anything.

Bill Maher (44:16)

I mean, I think given that they're now faced with a situation where the Republicans have gone ahead already, they have to respond. Otherwise it's going to be a case of, you know, being sitting ducks. And the problem with Democrats so often is that they end up looking like the Boy Scouts and against a Mafia.

Bret Stephens (44:29)

You know, I mean, you're talking about two different things. I actually agree with you that once

Bill Maher (44:33)

actually

Bret Stephens (44:37)

agreement actually to quote, practice on Socratic debate, to quote a movie. There's one issue which is the Supreme Court's decision which has to do with the Voting Rights act of 1965, Racial Gerrymanders. The second question is, did Democrats have to respond with their gerrymanders once Texas and other Republican states did. And I think in that case the answer is, sadly, yes, it's a race to the bottom. But Democrats couldn't sort of announce unilateral disarmament for the sake of a principle which was going to leave them. Which was going to leave them objectively weaker in Congress.

Bill Maher (45:11)

Well, I mean, I do foresee a situation where, I mean, if.

Gavin Newsom (45:15)

Thank you.

Bret Stephens (45:16)

Okay.

Bill Maher (45:18)

That's a policy that agrees with your. Actually over there.

Bret Stephens (45:20)

Yeah, on the right, obviously.

Bill Maher (45:23)

I mean, when you combine this with the attempts to, you know, stop voter fraud, which, you know, they've studied many times and in person, voter fraud almost never happens. It doesn't really affect any elections, but they're trying to do that. And yes, I mean, there are lax voting situations some places where you really don't have to show a lot of ideas, but it doesn't seem to really affect the outcome. But that is what the Republican Detroit, when you combine that with some of the states here, are going to rush to do this before the election. I mean, this midterm election was an election which the Democrats, because of Trump's unpopularity, because of the war and the inflation and the rest of it, Ice Doge things that even his people didn't like. Democrats were going to walk away with this one. That may not happen now. And people know that you think the violence is bad now. Wait til people know that the election that was absolutely supposed to be in the bag is not in the bag because they changed the rules and they fucked with the game.

Bill Maher (46:25)

I agree.

Bill Maher (46:27)

Okay.

Bill Maher (46:31)

And people keep saying, you know, the danger of civil war, that kind of stuff. We don't have a civil war, thank God on the streets. There is civil war in cyberspace already, or effectively civil war in cyberspace. And it's a cold civil war. Yeah, exactly. It's a cold civil war.

Bill Maher (46:45)

Yeah. Well, we hope it doesn't turn hot.

Bill Maher (46:48)

Absolutely.

Bill Maher (46:49)

All right, thank you very much. Time for new rules, everybody. New rules. All right, Newell, let's not ignore the one obvious upside to the shooting at the Correspondent's Dinner. Stephen Miller, gunning what it feels like to be whisked away by federal agents. New roll. The Australian woman who was on a family road trip, stopped to use an outhouse, fell in and got trapped waist deep in shit for three hours, has to look on the bright side. You could have been back in the car with the kids. Not that we should condemn any college for what one of its graduates does, but since Cole Thomas Allen went to Caltech Yeah, fuck it. Caltech must be dropped in the college rankings. You gave this guy a degree in mechanical engineering, and the best idea he could come up with to get past security was run fast. He's less Carlos the Jackal and more Forrest the Gump. Neural. Now that all these ships are stuck off the coast of Iran, someone must make a hookup app called Hormuz. Because for those sailors stuck at sea, shipping isn't the only thing that's backed up. New rule. Everyone has to stop saying, you know, pot is a lot stronger than it used to be, like it's a bad thing. I mean, what other product do people complain about when it gets better? And you know why? It was weaker when we were young. I do, because I was a pot dealer. Thank you. Yeah. It's because there was no hydroponics then. No indoor grow rooms, no CO2 enrichment, genetic breeding, or precision irrigation systems. And also, I put oregano in it. And finally, new rule. Stop making me know stuff I don't want to know. Did you know that the human brain actually has an actual finite structure storage capacity? It's estimated to be about 2.5 million gigabytes. Impressive, but not infinite. That's why sometimes you just gotta say, disk full. Stop shoving things down my brain. A couple of weeks ago, on our overtime segment, one of my guests used the term the Overton window, which, up until a year ago, I had heard only once every never. But lately I hear it everywhere. The Overton Window.

Bret Stephens (50:22)

The Overton Window.

Bill Maher (50:23)

The Overton Window. The Overton Window.

Bill Maher (50:25)

Overton Window. The Overton Window.

Bill Maher (50:27)

The Overton Window. The Overton Window.

Bill Maher (50:29)

The Overton Window.

Bill Maher (50:30)

The Overton Window. Sorry, but I just. I just couldn't hold my tongue anymore. Well, the Overton window has opened up,

Bret Stephens (50:43)

you know, about three years.

Bill Maher (50:43)

I don't know what that is, and I don't want to know what that is. Don't tell me. Yeah, yeah. I wasn't kidding. This isn't a bit. I really don't know what the Overton Window is, and I really don't want to know, so don't tell me. It may be the only thing that's still on my bucket list. I want to die not knowing what the Overton window is. Now, maybe it's awesome, but it just seems like the kind of pedantic bullshit that triggers me. So if you try to. So if you try to tell me I'm the street, I'll keep walking. Try to tell me on a plane, I'll jump out of random. If you start to Explain it to me. I'll stop you. If you write it, I won't read it. I didn't order it, and I don't think I need it because I'm a strong believer in the academic theory of. I kind of get it. Yeah. I kind of get it. Yeah. The Overton window. It's something bad we don't want to pass through. And Trump, Trump is just making it worse. And I'm sure he is, but that's enough for me. I don't need to chase every one of your manufactured buzzwords down the rabbit hole. Couple of. A couple of years ago, Joe Rogan and his guest, some guy. Took me to task for not knowing what WEF or MK Ultra was. He doesn't even know what the WEF is all about.

Bret Stephens (52:47)

He didn't even know what MKUltra was.

Bill Maher (52:51)

Okay, guys, WEF is World Economic Forum, where the billionaires meet every year in Davos. Yes, I do know that. I just don't call it the wef. If I hear Joe Rogan say wef, I just assume it's some form of professional wrestling organization. And MK Ultra, okay, the old CIA program where they execute. Experimented with lsd. Yes, I've read about it. I just don't use the decoder ring. Last week when the news was all about the Supreme Court, suddenly everywhere, everywhere I looked or read, someone was talking about the shadow docket. Shadow docket. The shadow docket.

Bill Maher (53:41)

Shadow docket.

Bill Maher (53:42)

The shadow docket.

Bill Maher (53:43)

Shadow docket.

Bill Maher (53:44)

The shadow docket.

Bret Stephens (53:45)

Shadow docket.

Bill Maher (53:51)

Yeah, the shadow docket. I kind of get it. Some kind of fuckery Trump's trying to pull, and I'm sure he is, but the court is kind of stopping him a little bit. Here's another one I can't get away from. Looks, maxing. I kind of get it. Some new fucked up shit the kids are doing. But come on, it'll go away soon. When they die. I don't. I don't feel like I need to know everything. I'm sure if I was a better citizen, I would research all these things. MK Ultra and cognitive offloading and astroturfing and shittification and the Schelling point. And I will, I. I promise I'll bone up on all of them. But not the fucking Overton Window. A man has to make a stand somewhere. I know enough. I know it's something liberal pundits care very deeply about. As do I. As do I. Absolutely. Very deep, whatever it is. Because I am with you on this. Because I get it. I mean, I kind of get it. I know it's got to stop or start. Whatever it is, you cannot make me learn the actual meaning. I will not learn it on the panel. I will not learn it wearing flannel. I will not learn it in a tree. I will not learn it from ChatGPT. I will not learn it on a yacht. I will not learn it smoking. I will not learn it from Macau. I will not learn it on Ms. Now. I will not learn it from social media. I will not learn it from Wikipedia. I will not learn it from a nerd. I will not learn your new dumb word. Look, I wish I had unlimited storage, but I don't. I also will not learn the word heuristic. I hear it a lot lately. Heuristic. Sounds important. Fuck you. All I know is whoever uses it is going to lose the election platform decay. If it involves my dentist, yes, I'll learn it. Otherwise, no groiper. I think I get it. A neo Nazi with bad skin. If it's not exactly that, it's very close. I'm just tired of my mind being cluttered with things I didn't ask for. This is what I call mind rape. Things forced into my head without my consent. I know all five Kardashian sisters names and I know the names of all six of the characters. And yet I've never seen one minute of either show. I did not consent to that. I even know that Ross was a paleontologist. And the fact that I know that I consider that violence. I know things about the Kardashians. Kardashian sisters I shouldn't like the names of all their kids and which NBA team their fathers played for. I know Kim had several children with a Nazi. I know her ex boyfriend has a big penis. People used to read books. Now they watch a YouTube of a raccoon opening a can of soda. What did we think was gonna happen? Among the words that should never have been allowed to get inside my brain are Scott and Dizzick. I don't want to know who Bill Belichick's girlfriend is. I really don't. I hope I never get Alzheimer's, but if I do, at least I'll forget who Justin Baldoni ever was. All right, thank you very much. I want to thank Brett Stevens, Jillian Tutt, and Governor Gavin Newsom. Club Random drops every Monday on YouTube or listen on wherever you get your podcast. Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch them anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com.