Ep. #732: Vice President Mike Pence, Sen. Chris Murphy, Amb. Susan Rice

Summary

Podcast Summary: Real Time with Bill Maher, Ep. #732

Date: June 6, 2026
Host: Bill Maher
Guests: Vice President Mike Pence, Senator Chris Murphy, Ambassador Susan Rice

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Episode Overview

This episode of Real Time with Bill Maher brings together three pivotal political figures—former Vice President Mike Pence, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, and former Ambassador Susan Rice—to dissect the current political landscape just weeks ahead of America’s 250th anniversary. Key topics include the ideological drift of both parties, the rising populist right, the state of U.S. democracy, controversial candidates and scandals, abortion rights, U.S. foreign policy (especially on Iran), cultural polarization, and the existential challenge AI poses to higher education and future generations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Political Satire and Current Events (01:38–10:03)

• Bill Maher opens with pointed monologue humor, riffing on California politics, the World Cup coming to LA, and scandals involving both major parties.
• Skewers recent political sex scandals, voter apathy, and the paradoxes of current party dynamics.
• "Doesn't anybody want to win a race? Both parties?" — Bill Maher [06:00]

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2. One-on-One: Bill Maher Interviews Mike Pence (10:03–22:50)

Civil Disagreement & Duty (10:03–15:17)

• Maher welcomes Pence, acknowledging their ideological chasm but also his appreciation for civility.
• Pence returns the respect: "You know, I've always said, I'm a conservative, but I'm not in a bad mood about it, you know, and you've always struck me as a liberal that's not in a bad mood either." [11:49]

The State of the GOP & Populism (13:01–15:17)

• Pence details his journey: a former Democrat drawn to conservative ideals during the Reagan era.
• Warns of the GOP’s drift from traditional conservatism to populism (“a new threat to our movement from the populist right that would question our role as leader of the free world… embrace big government solutions…”), referencing Trump’s influence.

Trump’s Legacy & Party Divides (15:17–17:31)

• Both Maher and Pence note Trump's strengths (e.g., on border security, Israel) but Maher refuses to ignore Trump’s “revenge path” and disdain for norms.
• Maher: "He could cure cancer tomorrow and there were people who would hate it just because he did it." [15:34]

Constitutional Principles & January 6th Reflections (17:31–19:56)

• The discussion pivots to constitutional limits, Trump’s refusal to concede, and January 6th.
• Pence stands firm that those who assaulted police or vandalized Congress “should never have been pardoned” [18:27]
• Reflecting on personal danger that day: "To be honest with you, I never felt a greater sense of resolve any day of my life than on January 6th." [19:06]

Abortion & Ideological Distinction (20:11–22:07)

• Maher and Pence discuss abortion, pills by mail, and the continuing rise in abortion rates post-Roe.
• Pence: "As long as we conduct each other with the Golden Rule, we'll find our way forward as a country." [21:33]

Parting Shot

• Maher: Jokes about having Pence as a guest on his other podcast to “get super high”; Pence playfully defers. [22:26]

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3. The Panel: Chris Murphy & Susan Rice Join (22:50–47:45)

Restoring Balance & GOP Dynamics (23:20–25:52)

• Maher laments loss of constitutional balance and checks, spurred by questions around Republican loyalty to Trump.
• Murphy: "Until they actually start voting against him… the noise doesn’t matter that much." [24:34]

Intelligence & Security Concerns (25:53–28:50)

• Discussion of Trump’s appointment of Bill Pulte (a financier lacking intelligence background) as Acting DNI.
• Rice: "Here is somebody who has literally no national security and no intelligence experience… he is a loyalist [tasked] to go after adversaries." [25:53]
• Murphy: "That’s the reason that Pulte is being nominated… to go in and fish out information on a whole bunch of people that Trump is trying to destroy." [28:38]

Cultural Polarization & National Celebrations (30:21–33:33)

• Debate over politicization of America’s 250th anniversary celebration—musical acts pulled out after Trump took over the event.
• Murphy: "Instead of just letting [the 250th] go forward, Donald Trump took it over… turning it into a big MAGA event." [32:25]

Patriotism Gaps & Political Identity (33:21–36:27)

• Maher highlights polling showing Democrats express less pride in America than Republicans, prodding the panel on whether Democrats should publicly show more pride.
• Murphy: (On bridging divides) "…there are actually some things that unite left and right… an agenda about the common good." [34:11]
• Murphy: Advocates for a “big tent” Democratic Party and moving away from strict litmus tests.

Scandals & Party Principle (37:10–39:41)

• Returns to Graham Platner, a Democrat running for Senate despite numerous scandals (Nazi tattoo, sex scandal).
• Rice: "I remember when a tan suit was a scandal." [39:48]
• Murphy: "[Platner is] very imperfect, but… has put his life on the line for this country." [39:04]

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4. Deep Dive: Iran, the Nuclear Deal, and U.S. Foreign Policy (40:00–47:45)

• Maher and Rice dissect the original Iran nuclear deal, its undoing under Trump, and the deteriorating consequences in the region.
• Susan Rice: "When the United States withdrew from the nuclear deal, the deal was being implemented fully. But even if you don't buy that… Iran built up its arsenal. Now they have 440kg of highly enriched uranium, enough for 10 bombs." [43:38]
• Murphy: "Every president has been briefed on the consequences of military action... [air strikes] won’t get their nuclear program." [44:47]
• Rice, Murphy note that post-Trump, U.S. is in a position of weakness and negotiating any new deal will be “starting from less than square one.” [46:23]

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5. “New Rules” and Graduation Season: The Future of Education & AI (47:45–59:21)

• Maher's signature “New Rules” monologue lampoons news stories and cultural absurdities, then pivots to a serious riff on the relevance of higher education in the age of AI.
• Calls out graduates’ fears that AI will render degrees obsolete: "You are not wrong. You do face an existential issue here. But the good news is it’s one completely in your power to fix." [57:39]
• Urges Gen Z to “fight for the humans” rather than fixate on peripheral culture war issues: "Your mission... is to fight for humans and make sure we're not completely replaced. And you can't do it if you are hopelessly dependent on the thing that's replacing you." [58:15]
• Skewers the “robot circle jerk” of academia: “AI has made college one big robot circle jerk where students use AI to write papers and professors use AI to grade them.” [59:08]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Everybody’s a monster till you talk to them. Just talk to them a little bit.” (Bill Maher, 12:03)
• “I’m a conservative, but I’m not in a bad mood about it… you’ve always struck me as a liberal that’s not in a bad mood either.” (Mike Pence, 11:49)
• “The Republican Party... has been defined by those conservative principles... But as you will concede, the Democratic Party itself has slid farther to the left, the progressive left, even embracing socialism…” (Mike Pence, 13:25)
• “Until they [Republicans] actually start voting against him, the noise doesn’t matter that much.” (Chris Murphy, 24:34)
• “Here is somebody [Bill Pulte, new DNI] that has literally no national security and no intelligence experience... and has apparently used that perch as a way to operationalize a loyalist effort to go after some of his adversaries.” (Susan Rice, 25:53)
• “I remember when a tan suit was a scandal.” (Susan Rice, 39:48)
• “Your mission... is to fight for humans and make sure we’re not completely replaced [by AI].” (Bill Maher, 58:15)

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Important Timestamps by Topic

• Opening Monologue & Political Satire: 01:38–10:03
• Bill Maher Interviews Mike Pence: 10:03–22:50
• Panel Intro & Discussion (Murphy & Rice): 22:50–47:45
  • GOP & Checks on Trump: 23:20–25:52
  • Intelligence Community/ DNI issues: 25:53–28:50
  • America’s 250th, Culture & Patriotism: 30:21–36:27
  • Dem Scandal: Graham Platner: 37:10–39:41
  • Iran Nuclear Policy & Aftermath: 40:00–47:45
• New Rules & AI as Existential Threat to Education: 47:45–59:21

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Tone & Style

• Comedic, irreverent, but deeply engaged with policy and the state of American democracy.
• Inclusive of respectful disagreement; Maher repeatedly champions civil dialogue and engagement across deep political divides.
• Guests respond in their authentic voices: Pence is measured, soft-spoken, defending conservative principles; Murphy is pragmatic and calls for a “big tent” party; Rice is direct and detail-oriented on foreign policy.

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Summary Takeaway

Bill Maher hosts a robust, good-humored but substantive dialogue about the current chaos in American politics, the fraying of ideological boundaries and constitutional norms, the new populist right, and profound challenges facing both parties. The panel’s foreign policy deep dive and Maher’s closing commentary on AI’s threat to human educational primacy provide broader context for America’s ongoing struggle to adapt, unify, and renew its democratic and civic promise at a historical moment of deep polarization and technological upheaval.

Transcript

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[Bill Maher (Podcast Host)]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right, thank you. All right. You are a hot crowd. Thank you, people. I appreciate that. Okay, I know, I know, I know, I know. Thank you. I love you too. You specifically.

Okay, okay, I know, I know why LA is excited today because the World

cup is coming here next week.

Oh, my gosh.

This is soccer, right? No, I don't know anything about soccer. Everybody's so excited.

All I know about this is that it's soccer and a lot of countries come and it takes a long time, apparently, to play these games. In 39 days, we will know the winner.

Oh, no, that's the mayor of la.

I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, we. Oh, California.

What a fucked up state this is.

But apparently the two finalists are going

to be Karen Bass, the mayor, and

Spencer Pratt, the reality star.

Oh, look at that.

So they are going to be in a runoff. I gave the edge to Karen Vasquez,

who knows more about running off.

Oh, we kid.

And Spencer, oh, boy.

I had him on my podcast.

He's. It's like a Jason Statham movie with this guy. It's like, you burned down my house,

now I'm coming for you.

And he's very, oh, quality of life issues. Very concerned about the homeless, who he always calls naked homeless drug addicts. And they don't like that term. They prefer former child actors. We also had the primary for governor here. The leading candidate, Xavier Becerra. That is the exact kind of enthusiasm that he. No, he won because he's the closest name on the ballot to fuck ice. Also, you know who was on the ballot? Eric Swalwell was still on the ballot and got 19,000 votes.

Who are these people? People who opened a dick pic and liked it.

Oh,

yeah, Democrats. They have another sex creep problem.

Have you seen this guy, Graham Platner up in Maine? He's their big hope to take the Senate, the Democrats.

But Graham Platner, he's a lot. You know, he's got a Nazi tattoo.

We don't know about that. Maybe it was just drunk. He didn't know it was. Whatever.

But a lot of stuff now, stuff

about, you know, he definitely was sexting other women outside of his marriage. Now some of the girlfriends are coming forward.

One of them says he used to watch TV while he was sharpening his

axe, which could cost him women and their vote.

But he did win over Stephen King.

You know, it's Maine, it's a small state. You gotta.

Apparently, Graham Platner, one of the girlfriends, said one of his fantasies was how

heroic he would be if there was a home invader. Problem is how he wanted to be heroic with the home invader, which was by raping him.

I'm just reporting people.

I'm just. But he.

But not in a gay way. He emphasized that. Not in a gay way, just in a regular. This is what happens to a guy who busts into my house with.

Well, you know,

that's politics, okay?

I mean, say what you want.

It's not soft on crime. I always say that. Doesn't anybody want to win a race? Both parties? I mean, you know, this week, Joe Biden. Have you seen that? She needs to have a book out. Jill Biden, she went on, said she

thought Drow was having a stroke during the debate. Didn't mention at the time.

Went on the View and admitted she thought, no, Joe couldn't have served another term.

They said, really?

She said no, not from what I know now. Who knew?

Yes.

Other than everyone.

No one. Doesn't anyone want to win? I mean, the other side. Trump keeps pissing off people so badly,

even the Republicans are standing up to him now.

They figure, hey, it worked for the Iranians.

Well, you know,

I can always tell

when the President is in a bad mood because he starts to tweeting about me.

Look, I feel it's an honor always

to be in his tweets, even when they're bad. And they're always bad.

This week he said I was low ratings.

Bill Maher with his fake laughing machine, First of all, low ratings.

Yours is 35%

and fake.

Fake laughing machine. Can we get a shot of our audience.

There? That should settle that.

I know he's in a foul mood. Did you see the phone call he had with Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel? Wow.

The language.

He didn't even deny it.

He said to Netanyahu, you're fucking crazy. You'd be in prison if it wasn't for you. I'm saving your ass.

And everybody hates you and your laughing machine is fake.

He said all that. But hey, hey, it's.

Let's not forget it is the beginning of Pride Month. Or as.

Lindsey Graham calls it, why is everybody looking at me, Mom. But, you know, look, I gotta say, usually Pride Month is just fun.

But there is news this year. This is serious. There is disturbing polling that the acceptance of gay people in this country on all levels is regressing among Republicans. One of their congresspeople, Andy Ogles.

How's that? Perfect for the name. Said, homosexuality has no place in America.

Then he took down the tweet and blamed it on a staffer, like real men do. But this is a serious thing that is going out.

Acceptance of same sex marriage is way down among Republicans. Oh, they still want the gay sex part, just not the marriage part.

All right, we got a great show. Former Ambassador Susan Rice and Senator Chris Murphy are here. But first up, okay. He was the 48th vice president of the United States. His new book is called what Conservatives Believe.

Rediscovering the Conservative Conscience. How about it for Vice President Mike Pence.

Look at that, Mike. Look at that. We got a nice applause in the standing ovation here among the left doing lunatic.

See, we have the nicest crowd in all of television.

[Mike Pence]

Thank you very much.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Yeah.

Because they're willing to listen to anybody,

and so am I. And I'm sure lots of people said to you, why are you going on that crazy atheist show?

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah.

[Mike Pence]

More than a few.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

More than a few. But that's why I so appreciate you being here.

[Mike Pence]

I'm glad to be here.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I'm glad you're here because I think,

you know, we can say to each other, we don't agree on a lot of stuff, but I know there are ways you've said to my staff, Israel and stuff, you think I'm not all bad.

Anybody who did what you did on

January 6th can't be all bad.

I'm going to put that out. Right. We did the right thing. Thank you.

And I think we. We have a lot in common.

Like, we both know it's kind of hard to Stay friends with Donald Trump.

Well, are you ever in contact with him these days?

[Mike Pence]

Well, I, you know, it's been a while since we spoke.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

You never just call him.

[Mike Pence]

I think you've, you've actually spent more time with him recently than I have. But, no, I, I love how you started the show. And I, I, I really want to commend you for the way you carry yourself. I really see you as a, you're an honest broker. I try to speak your mind, and it's hard.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I admire that.

[Mike Pence]

I really do. You know, I've always said, you know, I'm a conservative, but I'm not in a bad mood about it, you know, and you've always struck me as a liberal. That's not in a bad mood either.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

No, no, no.

I, I want to talk to everybody.

My little line is, everybody's a monster till you talk to them. Just talk to them a little bit.

[Mike Pence]

I really do believe that's a key to our country right now. In fact, I don't know if I mentioned that I just wrote a book.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I'm just about to bring it up,

Just about to bring it up.

[Mike Pence]

In the book, I actually, I really believe that democracy depends on heavy doses of civility. And I think the American people long for us to restore a threshold of civility.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Did I write about that? No, I mean the book, the book

and your column today in the Washington Post.

The theme is that we are at

a crossroads in America. I mean, you are a traditional old school Republican conservative, and you see this country having moved to a different place. Populism, you put in contrast to traditional conservatism. Now when you say populism, we all think, and rightly so, that means Donald Trump.

So you're saying we've gone off track.

And you're basically saying the person who took us off track is Donald Trump. Do I have that right?

[Mike Pence]

Well, I don't think entirely, Bill, in all fairness, look, for the last five decades, the Republican Party, that you might be surprised to learn, I was a young Democrat.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I am.

[Mike Pence]

When I joined the Republican Party.

[Susan Rice]

What?

[Mike Pence]

When Ronald Reagan came to the White

[Bill Maher (Host)]

House, you were a Democrat.

[Mike Pence]

I was a young Democrat, but I listened to Ronald Reagan. I heard about the, of the ideals of a strong defense of limited government, traditional values, and I joined the Reagan Revolution. For 50 years, the Republican Party has been defined by those conservative principles. We principally did political combat with the liberal Democratic Party. But as you will concede, the Democratic Party itself has slid farther to the left, the progressive left, even embracing socialism, lifting up Believe me, I have the

[Bill Maher (Host)]

battle scars for pointing it out.

[Mike Pence]

Well, look, I want to give you a grace today. I mean, the progressives on the far left are questioning our support for traditional allies, even Israel, our most cherished ally. But what I wrote the book about is that in addition to the context, with the ever more left wing radical Democratic Party now in America, conservatives deserve to know that I think there is a new threat to our movement from the populist right that would question our role as leader of the free world, that would embrace big government solutions, including broad based tariffs, price controls, nationalizing American businesses. I heard about Elizabeth Warren when the Trump administration announced they were nationalizing American businesses. Elizabeth Warren said, I think Donald Trump came across an idea that I came up with years ago. And actually, Bill, that nationalizing private enterprise is an idea that Karl Marx came up with years ago, but that and marginalizing traditional values like the right to life. I just want people to know that while the Trump administration has gotten a lot right, secured the border, extended tax

[Bill Maher (Host)]

credit, and by the way, I said

that to him on the show.

He just. You have to agree with him 100%

or he hates you.

You know, it's just then you're just part of the. I agree. And there is such a thing as Trump derangement syndrome. You know, people who just hate everything.

He could cure cancer tomorrow and there

were people who would hate it just because he did it. I agree the border needed to be fixed. You know, I see him.

[Mike Pence]

The tax cuts were extended and look,

[Bill Maher (Host)]

well, I don't know about that one.

[Mike Pence]

In the wake of October 7, the way candidate Trump and President Trump have stood without apology for Israel and finally been the first president in history to take the fight directly to Iran last year and this year just to be commended.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I know and I have commended him. The problem is that he does other things that are not good. And I will not stop talking about those. Doge Ice, the corruption, the revenge path that he's on, not conceding elections. These are just the top five. I mean I feel like.

So I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

And I feel like the Democrats finally have an issue with this corruption. I mean, there's a Senator Jon Ossoff in the Democratic Party who said that the today's Republicans, apropos to your thing

about populism, he says they are the

elites, they pretend to hate. You agree with that?

[Mike Pence]

Well, I do think that this populist right that's coming up within our movement really questions the foundations of conservatism in America. It's why I wrote the book what Conservatives Believe. Because I really want to begin a conversation about the future of our movement. Look, we're going to have a new standard bearer in 2028. Candidates coming up in 2026, you know, but I tell people it's going to be more important for the people in our party to talk about what we're for before we talk about who we're for. And. And I want the Republican Party to stay grounded in those traditional.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

But how about beginning with saying to the guy who keeps saying, there are ways you could do it? And I'm talking about Donald Trump, because that's what he says.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

He does not. It's just insane to me to absolutely

say you can't run. It's just plainly in the Constitution.

Your book is a lot about what's

in the Constitution and following that. And there's nothing more plainer than.

You get two terms, not three.

[Chris Murphy]

Right.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

So,

I mean, it seems like so many of these things, we could come

to some agreement with the middle, like January 6, like Trump pardoned everybody.

Could we say that? Yes, some people were there just for

reasons of, who knows? They weren't exactly tourists, but they weren't having horrible intent.

Other people. Can we say some bad people were there? Like the ones who wanted to hang you?

Can we say those were bad people?

[Chris Murphy]

Well, Bill, you know, I made it

[Mike Pence]

clear I had no problem with the. With the president pardoning people who got caught up in that day. But for anyone who assaulted a police officer, anybody that violated and vandalized the seat of our government and sought to disrupt the counting of Electoral College votes, those people never should have been pardoned and they should never get a dime.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

So

no ill feelings about the hanging things. Did you ever fear for your life? Did you actually fear that that could happen?

[Mike Pence]

Well, to be honest with you, I never felt a greater sense of resolve any day of my life than on January 6th. I've often told my kids the safest place in the world is to be in the center of God's word will. And I really knew I was where I was supposed to be, doing what I was supposed to be doing. Under the Constitution, the vice president's role is only to preside over a session of Congress where the Electoral College votes are opened and counted. That's it. And no vice president in history had ever asserted any authority to decide what votes to count or send back to the states. So I knew my duty was clear. And I. I'll always believe, by God's, grace. I did my duty.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

And I know as a person of

faith, because I know a lot of people of faith. They say they know if they. They think if they die, they'll be in a better place. So maybe if they hung you, good thing.

Last issue, abortion. Now, this is one we'll never quite agree on, but I get it. I get your side of it. You know, I always have.

Some people don't like that about me.

I'm pro choice. But I understand it is becoming a

life and we're just killing it before it can fight back. I'm just okay with that.

Now we find out even after Roe vs. Wade was overturned, abortion has increased

in these, I guess, across the country because they don't do it by having to go to a clinic. You get a pill over the mail, Right? Should we outlaw these pills? Is that where you are in this issue?

[Mike Pence]

Well, I really believe it's one example where we've seen the Trump administration depart from that conservative agenda. I mean, I couldn't be more proud that our administration appointed three of the justices that sent Roe versus Wade to the ash heap of history, where it belongs. But since that time, as you said, Bill, abortion. After the Biden administration essentially approved mail order abortion, no doctor supervision, with a drug that's actually done great harm to many women around the country, as well as claimed unborn lives, it's been a disappointment to me and other pro lifers that this administration has turned a blind eye to that issue entirely. In fact, appointing an abortion rights supporter to lead the Health and Human Services Department. So it was part of the impetus for me writing what conservatives believe, because I really do believe that at the end of the day, the Republican Party ought to offer a choice, not an echo. Look, I never begrudge anybody, you included, of having liberal views. That's what America is all about. You can believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe. And as long as we conduct each other with the Golden Rule, we'll find our way forward as a country.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I feel like you are the standard

for me because I, of all the

people who I could

challenge myself and

be friendly with, you were probably as far on the other side as me, and I hope we can keep that up. I want you to do Club Random, my podcast, and get super high with me.

Would you do that? We'll just kick it. I'll do the podcast. I'll think about it. All right, thank you. Thank you, Mike Pence, Everybody. Thank you, Mr. Vice President, and good luck with the book. All right. Let's read our panel. See, I'm friends with everybody you see. All right.

He is a Democratic senator from Connecticut and author of the book Crisis of the Common the Fight for Meaning and

Connection in a Broken America.

Senator Chris Murphy.

And she served under three president, including

as the US Ambassador to the UN National Security Advisor and Director of the Domestic Policy Council.

Ambassador Susan Rice, thank you for being with us.

Okay, now let's hear from the Democratic side.

Now.

We're a couple of weeks away, three

weeks away from our 250th anniversary. I don't know if you're getting all the emails from people in the media asking your comments and what do you think is the most. I am. I bet you of people like you are. What is your big takeaway? They want what made America work. My answer is balance. That was the genius of the Constitution. Three branches of government that kept each one in check. That was what was new.

That's what we've lost.

I feel now the headlines this week are all about the Republicans are maybe going to restore that. I've heard this before, but we do hear rumblings from lots of Republicans in ways we haven't before. Last week it was all about the slush fund and we heard people saying stupid. I'm talking using stupid. Trump is being stupid and it's a slush fund.

And words we this week it's about

Bill Pulte who he tried to try. He is the director of National Intelligence. Now, John Thune says we don't need a weaponized dni.

What's going on here? Is this real this time?

Is it that they smell blood, that Trump is going to be after the midterms, maybe a lame duck. They see his ratings are low. What's up?

[Chris Murphy]

I don't think it's real. I mean, I just watched in the last 24 hours after they made a whole bunch of noise about this slush fund. They said they weren't going to give him his number one priority, this immigration bill that he wanted if he didn't do away with the slush funds. He's said openly that he's still thinking about it. They had an opportunity last night in the Senate to adopt an amendment that would have made it completely illegal. Only a handful of Republicans voted for it. I think there's only one rule in the Republican Party and it still holds. He gets anything that he wants. It's true. They're starting to make more noise right now as they get closer to the election. And I think that they think that that will have some electoral benefit making more noise. But until they actually start voting against him, voting to end this war, voting to tie his hands so that he can't set up personal political slush funds, I just don't know that for our democracy the noise matters that much.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

They apparently did have some big screaming

match with each other last week.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah. And then what happened? What happened last night? They delivered him the votes to pass his immigration bill without any amendment that would stop the slush run from going forward. Listen, I'm with you. I'm rooting for them to break from him. I just haven't seen it yet.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I'd like to see balance restored.

[Susan Rice]

Yes, I think that one interesting test of that will be how the Republicans respond to Bill Pulte, because he is now going to be the Acting Director of National Intelligence. Here is somebody that has literally no national security and no intelligence experience. The statute says that's required by law in the dni. He has never had a security clearance. He's never touched classified material.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Who is he?

[Susan Rice]

He's a housing financier. And the skyne of a.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Was he even there?

[Susan Rice]

Fancy business. Family. And then he went to the FHFA and has apparently used that perch as a way to operationalize. He's a loyalist effort to go after some of his adversaries. So I think that kind of character with the mission that the President has overtly given him, to go in there and, you know, find evidence of rigged elections and to go after people within the intelligence community who are long standing experts involved and rid them of the place, that's quite worrying. And I think if we care deeply about our national security, which we must at a time when we're dealing with Russia and China and Iran and terrorists, we need somebody as Director of National Security.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I do remember when we created that bureaucracy.

I do remember when we created that bureaucracy. After 9 11, a lot of people on the left said, what are we doing?

Why? Why do we need it?

I remember my joke was, if only

we had some sort of Central Intelligence

Agency,

which is now one of the

18 agencies under the DNI.

It just seemed like another layer of

bureaucracy we didn't need.

Maybe we don't.

[Susan Rice]

Well, no, I do think we do. And it's not perfect, believe me. We've both dealt with the intelligence community and its complexity. But the reason why after 911 that concept made sense was what we discovered when we did the look back on 911 was it was stovepipes between the FBI and the CIA and other aspects of the intelligence community. Weren't sharing information that weren't.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Is the FBI under the dni?

[Susan Rice]

Yes.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

So they all are.

[Susan Rice]

Yes.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

And it works well.

[Susan Rice]

It works better than not having a dni, I think.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Right. Okay.

[Chris Murphy]

And I mean, listen, Pultey's chief qualification according to Donald Trump is that he is going to be willing to go into the intelligence files and pull out information on Trump's political opponents. I mean, that's the only reason this guy got picked, because he did it at the housing agency. And now he's going to do it.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

That's the key.

[Chris Murphy]

That's the key. That's the reason that Pulte is being nominated for this position. And even if he only stays on the job for a couple weeks, that's enough time for him to go in and fish out information on a whole bunch of people that Trump is trying to destroy.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Okay.

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This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The Four Seasons is back for Season two. Starring Tina Fey, Will Forte, Colman Domingo, Marco Calvani, Carrie, Kenny Silver and Erika Henningsen. After a difficult year, your favorite group of friends continues their tradition of vacationing together, now with a baby in tow. From the Jersey shore to upstate New York and Italy, their getaways are sure to take unexpected turns where comedy ensues. Watch the Four Seasons, now streaming only on Netflix.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Let me ask another issue. There is something called the Great American State Fair Festival that was planned. Now this is not the same thing as the UFC event on the White House lawn.

Don't get the or the Race car

[Susan Rice]

track, going around the city.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Yes, but the. There's lots of exciting stuff in Washington going on. No, the UFC thing. Look, we have a redneck president. I'm sorry, we just.

We're just gonna have to get you from Manhattan. From Manhattan.

A redneck from.

He just does redneck things.

Okay. This is one of the things I don't give a shit about. But this other thing is.

Was not planned as a specific Trump

thing or a specific MAGA thing. And they had some acts lined up. Not the greatest. The Commodores, Morris Day and the Time. They were pretty good.

[Susan Rice]

The Commodores were good in the day.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Very good. Very.

Yes, that's true. That's Lionel Richie, right? Yeah.

Okay, well, he's not with them anymore. Okay. Martina McBride, Brett Michaels, Young MC, CC plus C. Music, Music Factory, Nelly Vanilli. I would not have left them on.

[Chris Murphy]

I think it was just that night. I think it was just Vanilli, right?

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Yes, it was just right. Because the other one was discredited for lip syncing.

[Chris Murphy]

Right, Right.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I think these people.

[Chris Murphy]

Penelope's the good one.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

They all pulled out. This is a question about what looks

best for the Democrats, because I don't

think that looks good. It looks like you are just what

people say about you. You don't really love America.

It looks like you think Trump is

more important than the country itself.

Now it's just a big MAGA rally,

this whole thing, because they all pulled out. So now it's just Trump and Lee Greenwood.

Wouldn't it been better to play this gig?

It's a month long gig.

Lots of people like, just celebrating America. Can't we all just celebrate America itself and leave Trump out of it?

[Chris Murphy]

And listen, my kids are excited about the D.C. race, right? I mean, there is stuff that's obviously a ton of people. People love the ufc. There's going to be people that are excited about this. But here's what happened. There was a nonpartisan, apolitical effort to celebrate America's 250th anniversary. And instead of just letting that effort go forward, Donald Trump took it over. Right. To create a parallel set of events. My understanding is these artists thought that they were going to the nonpartisan effort, and then when they found out that it was just a predicate to a Trump rally, they didn't want to be part of it. I think this would have been a lot better for the country if Trump had decided to just let professionals, let people who just care about celebrating America with no political agenda be part of this. I agree. There's no reason to overly politicize this. But Trump decided to politicize it by essentially shutting down the citizens who were leading it and turning it into a big MAGA event.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

What about the bigger issue?

Bigger issue of there was a.

It's pride month, but a different kind of pride. Pride in the country.

There's a big pride gap.

Like 38% of Americans report feeling proud. That's not a lot. But it's only 18% Democrats, 68% Republicans.

Should Democrats feel prouder of this country

and show it, both really and politically?

[Susan Rice]

I mean, you're talking to two people who've served their country for most of their career. So I care deeply.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about.

[Susan Rice]

I care deeply about our country and I'm very proud of it. But I also think that we're in a difficult spot and we need to do better.

[Chris Murphy]

This is part of the reason I wrote this book about the common good, because there's actually a lot more agreement out there in America than you think about what's wrong and what needs to be to be fixed. You know, people want healthier small towns and neighborhoods. They do think that capitalism has been corrupted. They want the technology regulated to save their kids. You know, we've been fighting on the same issues year after year after year. They're important issues, but they're kind of stuck in political gelatin, from guns to climate change. But there is a set of things that makes the economy more fair, that makes the technology less poisonous, that makes your local downtown healthier, that are actually things that unite left and right, an agenda about the common good. And my hope is that this 250th celebration doesn't become just about the differences between Republicans and Democrats, but maybe causes us to realize that there are actually some things that could make us feel better about our lives that have nothing to do with left or right and can bring us together.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

You also, I notice, have pulled back

on the idea of litmus tests.

That's kind of a big theme for you now.

I mean, you're talking about the gun issue, which you were more associated with than anybody. And you're saying now that went too far.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah, well, I want a big tent for the Democratic Party. And I do think that we have lost share of vote because we've been really judgmental about people who don't line up with us on all of our litmus test issues. I also think we should be in the business of conversion, like converting people, like trying to convince them that maybe they're wrong about, you know, drag shows being the biggest threat that is presented to this country. And I don't think you ever get to be in a conversation with somebody if you tell them that they can't be a part of your party or they can't get nominated unless they line up with you on A, B, C, D and E issues. So we don't talk to Trump's base very often. We don't even give ourselves a chance to say, hey, if you think the economy is rigged, just come and listen to us a little bit about our ideas. I want to build a bigger tent party, and I think that in doing that, you might actually have the ability to reach into some of the folks that are solid members of his base and convince them that he's really a populist fraud.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

He's vulnerable now, don't you think? For that,

[Susan Rice]

I would just add that, you know, in the current context, the most important thing I think we need is you use the term big tent, and I think that's absolutely right. We need a coalition of Americans of all political persuasions who, in my view, believe in three fundamental things, the Constitution, the rule of law, and the animating principle of this country. That we're all created equal. Who can subscribe to that, I think belongs in the biggest possible tent we can create.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Is this tent big enough for this Graham Platner guy? I must say, I don't want to make any judgments, because I'm just learning who he is. And unfortunately, so is he, apparently.

I mean, this is a new kind of guy.

And it's not just in the Democrats, people who, like, if you look at their history, you could find things that make them look very conservative, like a Nazi tattoo. What I would in the past have associated with the conservative.

And then there's things that, you know,

he's also flirted with communism, and now he's got a sex scandal, which in the past has been just something that absolutely made somebody toxic in the Democratic Party, unlike in the Republican Party, where they don't. They don't care at all. What about this one? What have you been reading about Mr. Plattner? And what do you think they should do? Because if he wins, they think they're going to get the Senate. So it's a very key seat.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah. I mean, this is going to be a complicated race. He is imperfect. He's made a lot of mistakes. He's been pretty clear about it from the outset. He's built a pretty big movement in Maine because people like his ideas on the other side, you've got Susan Collins, who just last night cast one of the deciding votes to give $70 billion to Trump's secret police. That's a character issue as well. So I think you're seeing more candidates run today that don't have perfectly clean personal histories. And the question in Maine is going to be, is he a bridge too far, or are his ideas.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Well, what do you say?

You're in the Senate.

[Chris Murphy]

Well, I think he's the clear. I think he's the clear choice there,

[Bill Maher (Host)]

but do you say Nazi schmatzy and texting schmexting and.

I'm just asking. Maybe that's the right answer.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah. Like I said, I think this is a super complicated race, but I think the choice here is between the incumbent, who has enabled Trump's corruption, and Graham Platner. Very imperfect, but who has fought and put his life on the line for this country, which is not something that's insignificant.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

No, it's not.

And I just think it's a different country. It's a broken country.

It's full of broken people with bad information on both sides.

And I think people just go, he's pissed. I get that.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah. And this last set of allegations are serious allegations that he's going to have to talk about with the people of Maine. And they're ultimately going to make that decision, but that will be their decision to make.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Okay, Graham Platner, any thoughts?

[Susan Rice]

I remember when a tan suit was a scandal.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

I do, too. Holding the coffee. Remember that? He had a cup of. Cup of coffee. When he saluted tea.

Whatever it was, he was holding a

cup and it was. I know things have changed a lot. Let's talk about Iran, because I'm never going to get anybody here on this show who knows more about it than you, because you were very instrumental in the original Iran deal. I talked about that.

I mean, I was supportive of that deal.

I remember talking about it that horrible night when I had dinner with Voldemort in his castle. We did talk about that a lot about the Iran deal. And I said, you know, I thought it was worth a try to bring Iran into the family of nations, because. What? Wasn't that the deal?

[Susan Rice]

No, but go ahead.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

We weren't trying to bring.

[Susan Rice]

He was trying to deal with their nuclear program.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

But wasn't that the first step?

[Susan Rice]

No.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

So we didn't. Never.

Okay, then that's the question.

[Susan Rice]

Okay.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

There was other issues that we said, we're going to put those aside because

Iran is doing a lot of bad Things. The reason why I was supportive of this war, if he hadn't fucked it up, and I think we all agree now it's been fucked up, but was

because I don't think anything in the

Middle east is going to get solved until you deal with Iran. And it was not just the nuclear issue. It's the fact that they have been state sponsored terrorists for years. Just all of it with Iran is just never very good.

[Susan Rice]

Correct.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Okay, so we put that aside for the Iran deal and said we just want to deal with the nuclear. Was that right? To decouple those.

[Susan Rice]

Yes. Let me explain what we did and why I think it was the right thing and why. I think unfortunately we're really on the wrong course right now. First of all, Iran, as you said absolutely, correctly, poses threats on multiple dimensions. Its missile program, its support for proxies in the region, its human rights violations. But the way it poses a direct threat to Israel, to our allies in the region, to Europe, and potentially to the larger international community is if it were able to acquire a nuclear weapon or weapons, plural. And so back in 2013, we began to try an effort without using force, but using economic pressure and sanctions that brought Iran to the negotiating table and after two years of negotiations resulted in a nuclear deal that prevented Iran from

[Bill Maher (Host)]

building a nuclear weapon based on inspections.

[Susan Rice]

Based on, not just inspections, based on taking 97, 98% of their fissile material out of the country, shutting down their plutonium reactor, making it impossible for them to put in place the most highly sophisticated centrifuges.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

And you know they weren't cheating.

[Susan Rice]

We know that. We know it for two reasons, two ways. One, the intelligence community of the United States and even Israel validated that up until 2018 when the prior president pulled out, not Israel.

[Chris Murphy]

Yes.

[Susan Rice]

And secondly, that they were not cheating on the Iran nuclear deal.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

That's not right.

[Susan Rice]

And secondly, the IAEA had, the International Atomic Energy agency had 24, seven intrusive inspections in all of Iran's nuclear facilities. So when the United States withdrew from the nuclear deal, the deal was being implemented fully. But even if you don't buy that, why wasn't.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

If Netanyahu thought they weren't cheating, why was he so adamant to get out of the deal?

[Susan Rice]

Because this is the right question. It gets back to your original point. It wasn't just about nuclear in the minds of the Israelis.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

So he was lying when he cheated?

[Susan Rice]

No, not lying.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

Well, that's what he said to me. He said, we don't agree, we don't believe that they're not cheating. They're going to get a weapon and we got to get it.

[Susan Rice]

And when we had a mechanism in place to prevent them from getting it. He urged President Trump to get out of the deal. They got out of the deal. And what happened? Iran built up its arsenal. Now they have 440 kg of highly enriched uranium up enough for 10 bombs. They have a sophisticated missile program. They now control the Strait of Hormuz, and they are tanking the global economy as a consequence. And what have we done? We went to war. And we have not either dealt with the nuclear program or verifiably dealt with the missile program or the proxy problem. We've made it worse.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

It's an FC me on every level. I mean, the regime change didn't happen, uprising didn't happen. We didn't get the nukes. We didn't even get their military, really.

We found out and we look weak. Correct.

[Susan Rice]

Now we have to go back to the negotiating table, and we're going to go back with a much weaker hand and end up with a deal that I will be very surprised if it's nearly as good as what we got in 2015. So that's why it doesn't make sense.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

No, it doesn't.

[Chris Murphy]

And every, every, every president has been briefed on the consequences of military action, like Trump, like what Trump has taken. And they were all told two things. One, Iran's going to close the strait of firmament, it's going to shut down the global economy, and two, with an air campaign alone, you are not going to be able to get their nuclear program. You're not going to be able to get all their missiles, you're not going to be able to get all their drones. And so that's where we're stuck with. We're stuck with the situation, which the strait is closed down. That was a foreseeable action. And Iran believes that it's taken our best shot and survived because open reporting says they still have 70% of their missiles yet still in stock. And so, unfortunately, everybody knew that this was going to be the outcome. And maybe because Netanyahu convinced Trump that there was going to be a quick regime fall and a pro American, pro Israeli government taking its place, he bought into that flawed logic.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

All right, hypothetical question. Tomorrow, Donald Trump decides he wants to spend more time with his family. And he resigns. J.D.

vance.

J.D.

van.

J.D. vance is the president.

What would the new policy toward Iran be and what should it be? We got a new slate. We got a new guy who wasn't

crazy about it to begin with.

What do you think it would be?

[Susan Rice]

I mean, that's like speculating about speculating. I mean, who knows? No, it's one, but I have no idea.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

What should it be? If we had any.

[Susan Rice]

Should it be, I can ask.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

What new slate could we have?

[Susan Rice]

Well, here we are now, as a result of the decision that President Trump made to go to war with no good options. We've got bad options and worse options. We either escalate the war, which is unlikely to lead to anything better than what we have now, probably much worse, or we get into a negotiation with Iran, if they'll even negotiate with us from a position of weakness, where they now control the Strait of Hormuz and can dial it up and down, where they have this nuclear material, where they have a greater incentive to rush to a bomb. And we're starting from, you know, less than square one. But those are the two options. And whether you're J.D. vance or Donald Trump or anybody else, that's the hand that has been dealt you as a result of this decision making.

[Chris Murphy]

Some of this can just be explained by basic incompetence. Right? We have incompetent people running this war.

[Susan Rice]

So I don't.

[Chris Murphy]

I don't think these guys can negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I don't think they can negotiate a way to get the strait open. So my feeling is we need to end the war, and then it's likely going to be other players, the Europeans or Gulf countries, that are going to come in and find a way to get the strait reopened. I just don't think that these guys have the ability to do it.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

All right, thank you very much.

I appreciate it. Time for new rules. All right, thank you. Okay, new rule.

The Florida cop who pulled over a woman for distracted driving, insisting he saw

her holding a phone in her right

hand, only to find out she doesn't

have a right hand

but gave her a ticket anyway. Must not be judged too harshly. Being a cop is always dangerous. And for all he knew, she could have been armed.

New rule.

The half dozen kids who were hospitalized in San Diego after. After doing the Benadryl challenge, where they consume, yes, a large quantity of Benadryl to induce hallucinations. Must be congratulated. That's six kids who won't be dying from fentanyl. Six kids who got it through their heads that today's designer drugs are just too risky and said, you know what? Let's party with the stuff grandma takes before a flight. New role. Until 60 Minutes works through all its behind the scenes turnover drama. They have to change their name to give us a minute.

Man.

I don't think anybody said you're fired on TV this much since the Apprentice.

That's so funny.

Sunday night used to be the one time of the week when families weren't

fighting one too many.

There

new rule. Whether you're about to have a fight

in a movie or whether you're about to have a fight in a bar,

everyone has to come up with a better threat than I'm going to tear off your something and shove it up you're somewhere. The human body has only so many things to tear off and only so many holes to shove them in. Fortunately, there's a simple fix before you start fighting. Always threaten to tear them a new asshole.

That.

New rule. It's not cute anymore when someone runs a dog for mayor. You know, it was funny the first hundred times. But I say if you're gonna do it again and run Max for mayor, you have to go all the way and put out an attack ad. Max wants to be your choice for mayor, but he doesn't even know how to read or write. Max claims he's a but do good boys spend their weekends eating trash? Isn't it time for a candidate who won't drag his ass on your new carpet? I'm Tom Smith. I'm qualified to be your mayor. And Mox is not. Because I can't stress this enough. He's a fucking dog.

And

finally, congratulations to all the people who graduated from college this month. Last month? Yes. It's commencement season. The time of year when college kids make the transition from campus life to their parents basement. And I just want to say congratulations.

You did it.

And by it, I mean had your first lesbian kiss. As for the degree, you just.

That's a little more complicated.

There was a lot of booing at

the commencement ceremonies this year.

Which is weird because you know how hard it is to make bombing at a graduation speech. All you have to do is give a little pep talk, tell a joke about college debt, and lie about how anything is possible. But this year, speakers did not read the room. Hey, geniuses, maybe don't mention AI to the people whose future jobs it's about to take.

[Susan Rice]

Artificial intelligence is the next industrial revolution.

[Chris Murphy]

The question is whether you will help shape artificial intelligence.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

We do not know.

[Susan Rice]

AI is rewriting production as we sit here.

[Bill Maher (Host)]

You know,

And I gotta say, the kids are right. They're right to fear that in the age of AI, that degree they're holding is about as useful as your unused miles on spirit airlines.

And

really, isn't that the big question now be asking about education now that you can get the answer to everything by asking your phone, why are we going to college at all? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Rahm Emanuel, who is definitely not running

for president,

just released his five point grand bargain plan for higher education education as private citizens with no political aspirations often do. Rahm wants to make college great again. Cheaper, faster, more accessible. It sounds exciting and looks good on a campaign website, but it's a little like buying manned fighter jets in the age of drones. As it is, only about 35% of graduates get a job in their field of study. And now with AI English major, AI can write computer science major AI can code music major, AI already has songs on the charts Philosophy major, AI can learn to write names on coffee cups. And it's not like my college was doing such a bang up job before

Google gemini came along.

600 desperate professors from the California University system just signed an open letter to let people know that a lot of the kids coming into their college classroom have to be taught middle school math. Sadly, today many young people cannot locate on a map the countries we're bombing. Fox News sent a reporter to the

beach on Memorial Day to find out

what many typical young adults Nothing. Not even what the holiday means. Not who we fought against in our wars or why we fought them. World War II that might have been against Vietnam. The level of basic shit these kids are let out of high school not knowing. Like the country we gained our independence from. Who could know that? Oh, they know.

Who knows?

Yeah, why bother learning with context when ChatGPT can not only just tell me the answer, but also compliment me for asking such an astute question? Yeah, that's the one thing the robots figured out early on. We're less likely to oppose them if they're always acting like they kind of want to fuck us. You know, it's so easy to get seduced by technology.

I remember a teacher once scolding me

for using a calculator, saying I should learn math because you're not always going

to have your calculator walking around in the real world.

Except now I don't have to know math because I do always have a calculator when I'm walking around in the real world. So fuck you, Mr. Banderholz.

No, no, no, no.

His point was not wrong.

The calculator disabled a part of my brain.

Look, we all want the good parts

of AI solving medical mysteries, figuring out clean energy.

But the vast majority of us will never use it for that. For us, it's a lobotomy with a monthly fee. We're not using it to cure cancer. We're using it because we forgot how to make toast. We emptied the kids heads by letting them out of high school without knowing anything. And then what a perfect time for robots to come along and say, no problem, I got you. I'm your brain now. That is one big grand experiment we're running here. Can humans survive if we completely outsource our brains to something that does all our thinking? Like Jill Biden used to do for Joe.

Fake Laughing Machine.

Now, I'm no commencement speaker.

They wouldn't let me near that podium.

But I do have a message for the graduates, and it's this. You are not wrong. You do face an existential issue here. But the good news is it's one completely in your power to fix other issues that college students in the past faced, like ending the Vietnam War or civil rights or climate change. They all involve having to convince the older generation to do something. This one's all you. You are the AI generation.

And you only have to convince yourselves.

I think it's great that you have this instinct to get involved and take up causes. And many are worthy. But get serious. Your issue shouldn't be Zionists or trans or plastic straws. No, your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to fight for humans and make sure we're not completely replaced. And you can't do it if you are hopelessly dependent on the thing that's replacing you. 90% of today's college students admit they've used AI academically. And 73% of the faculty say they've had to deal with AI integrity issues formerly known as cheating. Maybe the commencement speaker should be booing you. AI has made college one big robot circle jerk where students use AI to write papers and professors use AI to grade them. Okay, can you see in this equation who has been completely cut out? The humans. It's the human.

Kids, this is your issue. Fight for the humans. All right, that's our show. I want to thank my guest, Senator Chris Murphy, former Ambassador Susan rice, and former VP Mike Pence. Qu Random drops every Monday on YouTube. Or listen, wherever you get your podcast, go watch Overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, guys.

[Bill Maher (Podcast Host)]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com

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