Overtime – Episode #679: Dr. Casey Means, Chris Cuomo, Mary Katharine Ham

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher: In-Depth Analysis of Politics, Health, and Public Trust

Episode: Processing...
Release Date: November 19, 2024
Host: Bill Maher
Guests: Dr. Casey Means, Kathleen Hamm, Chris Cuomo

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Introduction

In this episode of HBO’s "Real Time with Bill Maher," host Bill Maher engages in a robust discussion with guests Dr. Casey Means, Kathleen Hamm, and Chris Cuomo. The conversation traverses a range of pressing topics, including the ramifications of Trump’s political influence, the intricate dynamics of public health debates, and the challenges posed by over-regulation in the American agricultural sector. The panel delves deep into the intersections of politics, health, and societal trust, offering insightful perspectives on contemporary issues.

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Trump's Political Influence and Far-Right Figures

The episode opens with an examination of the lingering impact of Donald Trump's political victory, particularly focusing on the emergence of far-right figures like Nick Fuentes. Kathleen Hamm expresses strong disapproval of Fuentes' misogynistic remarks, stating, “It’s rapey. Yes, that’s horrible. I vote horrible” (01:43). The discussion highlights Fuentes’ controversial stance during the Trump campaign, where he shifted his support, culminating in aggressive actions such as pepper-spraying a woman, which Hamm sarcastically describes as “really alpha” (01:50).

The panel acknowledges the broader issue of misogyny within certain factions of the administration, with Kathleen Hamm affirming, “There are a bunch of people in that administration that have women issues” (02:07). This segment underscores the persistent challenges posed by extremist ideologies within mainstream politics.

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Authenticity in Political Positions and AOC’s Strategy

Bill Maher shifts the conversation to Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC), questioning whether her decision to remove pronouns from her Twitter bio indicates a moderation of her political stances. Chris Cuomo responds, “At least she didn’t leave the platform” (02:30), while Kathleen Hamm suggests that AOC is engaging with Trump voters to understand their perspectives, thereby maintaining authenticity in her positions.

Dr. Casey Means adds depth to this discussion by highlighting the role of authenticity and truth in bridging political divides. She notes, “People respond to it. And I think, you know, a lot of people thought there was no chance that Trump could win another election. But I think the assumption that Americans are stupid and they don't understand things, they rejected that” (03:21). This highlights a shift in voter behavior towards valuing nuanced and authentic political discourse.

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The Obesity Epidemic: A Silent Crisis

One of the most substantial segments of the episode focuses on the obesity epidemic in America. Bill Maher emphasizes the contentious nature of discussing health issues like obesity, referring to it as the “third rail” of American politics (04:07). He laments the societal reluctance to address obesity openly, stating, “It's the number one health factor in this country” (04:24).

Dr. Casey Means presents alarming statistics from the Journal of the American College of Cardiology, highlighting that only 6.8% of Americans have optimal metabolic health biomarkers (09:03). She introduces complex concepts such as “metabolically healthy obese” and “TOFI” (thin on the outside, fat on the inside), challenging the simplistic association between body weight and health.

Kathleen Hamm and Maher discuss the addictive nature of processed foods, with Hamm asserting, “McDonald's doing something to your body that then makes your body want more McDonald's” (07:36). This segment delves into how food science manipulates taste to foster dependencies, exacerbating public health issues.

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Public Trust and the Fallout from COVID-19 Policies

The conversation transitions to the erosion of public trust in health institutions, a consequence of stringent COVID-19 measures. Kathleen Hamm criticizes the overreach of public health directives, stating, “We're not going to allow you to do any smart cost benefit analyses” (11:02). Dr. Casey Means echoes this sentiment, arguing that the obsession with eliminating risk during the pandemic has led to a populace feeling “imprisoned by overburdensome regulation” (13:10).

This discussion underscores the long-term impact of pandemic policies on societal trust and highlights the necessity for balanced public health strategies that respect individual autonomy.

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Raw Milk and Over-Regulation in Agriculture

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the debate over raw milk consumption. Bill Maher questions the dangers of raw milk, pondering, “What are the chances of contracting bird flu from raw milk?” (15:09). Dr. Casey Means advocates for reduced regulation, arguing that current laws excessively restrict consumer choice and harm small farmers.

Kathleen Hamm expands on this by discussing the detrimental effects of conglomerates dominating the meat industry, stating, “There is a war on small farmers where they are being [supprimed] by conglomerates” (14:24). The panel emphasizes the broader implications of over-regulation, which stifles entrepreneurial spirit and consumer freedom.

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Fluoride Controversy and Public Health Messaging

Bill Maher brings forth the contentious issue of fluoride in public water systems. He voices skepticism about mandatory fluoride supplementation, questioning its necessity and potential health repercussions: “I don't know why we have to put more of it. If I wanted, I could get it in toothpaste” (15:34). Dr. Casey Means responds by emphasizing the importance of public discourse in health decisions, advocating for informed choices rather than blanket regulations.

This segment highlights the ongoing tensions between public health initiatives and individual freedoms, reflecting broader societal debates about governmental authority and personal autonomy.

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Platforming Diverse Viewpoints and Public Discourse

As the episode nears its conclusion, the panel addresses the challenges of platforming diverse and sometimes controversial viewpoints. Chris Cuomo emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and open dialogue, stating, “You need to get back to critical thinking and people who are okay hearing ideas they don't agree with” (16:46). Bill Maher concurs, critiquing the prevalence of cancel culture and censorship, which he argues stifles meaningful discourse: “We do it all” (17:07).

Dr. Casey Means and Kathleen Hamm advocate for open conversations on divisive issues, arguing that silencing debates only furthers public distrust and disengagement.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the need for honest and open discussions on critical issues affecting society. Bill Maher encourages listeners to engage with diverse perspectives and participate in shaping informed public discourse. The panel collectively underscores the importance of balancing regulation with personal freedom, fostering authentic political engagement, and addressing public health challenges with transparency and integrity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kathleen Hamm on Nick Fuentes:
  “It’s rapey. Yes, that’s horrible. I vote horrible.” (01:43)

• Chris Cuomo on AOC’s Authenticity:
  “At least she didn’t leave the platform.” (02:30)

• Bill Maher on Food Addiction:
  “The food is delicious. That's the problem.” (05:43)

• Dr. Casey Means on Metabolic Health:
  “Only 6.8% of Americans have optimal metabolic health biomarkers.” (09:03)

• Kathleen Hamm on Over-Regulation:
  “There is a war on small farmers where they are being [suppprimed] by conglomerates.” (14:24)

• Bill Maher on Fluoride:
  “I don't know why we have to put more of it. If I wanted, I could get it in toothpaste.” (15:34)

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This episode of "Real Time with Bill Maher" offers a comprehensive exploration of the intertwined issues of political extremism, public health, and regulatory overreach. The panelists provide thought-provoking insights, urging listeners to engage in informed and open-minded dialogues to navigate the complexities of contemporary American society.

Transcript

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[Bill Maher]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

He's the Co founder of Levels & Co author of the New York Times bestseller good energy. Dr. Casey means. She's a Fox News contributor, host of the Getting Hammered podcast Kathleen Mary Kathleen Hamm, and he's the host of News Nation's Cuomo and the podcast the Chris Cuomo Project. Chris Cuomo. Ok. Ok. Here are the questions for panel. Has Trump's victory embarked? Bolden young misogynist like Nick Fuentes who posted a video telling women, your body, my choice. Oh, well, that's rapey. Yes. That's horrible. I vote horrible. Any dissenters?

[Kathleen Hamm]

Terrible.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, terrible. Okay, well, Nick Foy, he also like.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Weirdly turned on Trump at some point during the campaign and said he was going the other direction and now he's.

[Chris Cuomo]

Like, and then he pepper sprayed a lady, which is really alpha.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Yeah, very.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, look, the Democrats have had their people, but I mean there's just a lot of people in that administration that have women issues.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Okay. Glad we all agree on that. Does AOC removing pronouns from her Twitter bio signal that she may be moderating some of her positions? I didn't know that happened. And baby steps is all I can say.

[Chris Cuomo]

At least she didn't leave the platform.

[Kathleen Hamm]

She's been listening to people. She's been saying because I think she's smart. She's been saying to Trump voters who voted for her and Trump to explain why and tell her why they split their ticket. It's been very interesting.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yeah, I think that she owns her own positions. You may not agree with them, but there's an authenticity to it. I think people resonate off that. Look, I think, Doc, that's one of the reasons that you were so blow away in your interview with Bill. And why the book is doing so well is that it just rings of being. You know, I don't have your sophistication, but if it makes sense, you know, to this salami on top of my shoulders, it is very impressive to people and it's great to hear it. I just wish you were more involved with the administration.

[Bill Maher]

Well, maybe she will be. I mean, your brother is right, isn't he closer to rfk?

[Dr. Casey Means]

He's been very involved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I think there's something happening right now where I think there's been a lot of polarization and the algorithms are fueling it. But I think we're seeing a thread happening where authenticity and truth, you know, people respond to it. And I think, you know, a lot of people thought there was no chance that Trump could win another election. But I think the assumption that Americans are stupid and they don't understand things, they rejected that and they said, you know, we're going to. We're gonna come out and sort of vote for people who trust us to make nuanced decisions and have nuanced ideas.

[Kathleen Hamm]

So I think that make America healthy again, those moms, those suburban moms, is an underrated part of the electorate, and it is going to change the coalition and possibly the way that Trump governs, as we're already seeing. And I think Democrats became the party of. You can't say that. You can't talk about crime and immigration because it's racist. You can't talk about trans issues because trans kids will kill themselves. You can't talk about the COVID vaccine because it means you want kids to have measles. And it' a bunch of people went, you're full of shit.

[Dr. Casey Means]

And I'm allowed to deny our interest.

[Bill Maher]

Nothing, nothing scares people like health. Of all the issues I've ever discussed on this show, and that's all of them over a long time, the ones that gotten me the most hate health issues, like obesity. Like, that is the third. The ultimate third rail. Like, when I did it, even other anchors would call me up and say, I can't believe you talked about that. Yeah, because you have to talk. How can you not talk about it? I mean, it's the number one health factor in this country.

[Chris Cuomo]

Well, it gives you a disconnect. And I'll give you an interesting thing that MK will understand immediately when you're looking at focus groups, okay. For a campaign or a candidate. Right. Very often you will, for a period, watch them with the Sound down. Because what you're looking for is body language, affinity, where, like, they're all getting it. If you think about the disparate ideas at this table and when you talk about the idea of, you know, there's something in our food, there's a lot of stuff in our food that probably shouldn't be there. And every time they look, the more they look, the more they find. That can kill you. Everybody's head is going like this. Yeah, I think the food's a problem. My question to you is, if everybody's head is nodding like this, what is keeping anything from ever happening that moves us in the direction that you're.

[Bill Maher]

The food is delicious. That's the problem.

[Dr. Casey Means]

I would say.

[Bill Maher]

I would say that that's what it is.

[Chris Cuomo]

I'll tell you who comes back from Italy saying, I can't wait to get some ragu.

[Dr. Casey Means]

That's right. I mean, Italy, the food is all. It's more delicious.

[Bill Maher]

But we don't live in Italy. We live near McDonald's.

[Chris Cuomo]

Not yet.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, this is not rocket science, but I don't know that our food safe.

[Chris Cuomo]

I'm not talking about, like, the food is delicious.

[Dr. Casey Means]

It is in America.

[Bill Maher]

If I had six months to live. You mean the last time I'd eat McDonald's every night. Are you serious? And if I ate McDonald's every night, I'd have six months to live? Yes.

[Chris Cuomo]

So, look, I was on his team.

[Bill Maher]

McDonald's isn't delicious. Who are we fucking kidding? I.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Absolutely.

[Bill Maher]

It's delicious.

[Dr. Casey Means]

See, I.

[Kathleen Hamm]

It's so.

[Dr. Casey Means]

I mean, you should talk.

[Bill Maher]

But I. I never have it, but it's delicious.

[Chris Cuomo]

And how do you know?

[Bill Maher]

I've had it. Oh, have they changed the formula? I don't think so. Coca Cola, also delicious product. When they put the Big Mac, I can see the success.

[Chris Cuomo]

When they put the Big Mac on the thing and the guy comes back three months later and it looks the same way. I was out. I know I was out. Anything that holds up better than my hairline, I'm not going to eat.

[Dr. Casey Means]

When you know what's in it and you know, you still are able to find deliciousness in it, I don't eat it.

[Bill Maher]

This is not rocket science, people. I know something's delicious and I know it's bad for me, so I don't eat it. Is that so hard to understand? Yes, but let's do that. The one reason why people still do this is because people are always making decisions. Oh, we are. Oh, we are doing this every day. Present versus the future. If I stay up another hour, I'll be tired in the morning. But I want to watch this. I do it all the time.

[Kathleen Hamm]

You're 100% right about McDonald's and it tasting good, and that's one of the reasons we do it. And also, Casey's right about the McDonald's doing something to your body that then makes your body want more McDonald's.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, it's evil.

[Kathleen Hamm]

That's how it works.

[Dr. Casey Means]

It's engineered by food science for you to think that it's delicious, like a drug. Right?

[Kathleen Hamm]

Yeah. And one of the reasons we have. Everyone nods their head but nothing gets done. Because there are a bunch of moneyed interests here and maybe you need, I don't know, a disruptor.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, you do.

[Kathleen Hamm]

And make something happen.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Over 20% of our GDP is dependent on us not talking about obesity. Honestly, 17% of our GDP goes to healthcare, and a huge portion more goes to ultra processed food. And there is a chokehold on talking about anything that could make people feel empowered to not take part in that system, which depends on us being addicted to processed food and then sick and in the hospital.

[Bill Maher]

And again, for the people who are going to yell at me because, oh, my God, are you defending Robert Kennedy? Well, just remember your view on obesity from the left. To go into that roster of things that I said that they're crazy about was, first of all, it's body positivity. Was there ever more Orwellian phrase than that? It was. It's not nothing positive about it. I mean, you. It's. When you're eating it, it's positive, tastes great. And if beauty's in the eye of the beholder, if you find, you know, someone large, be beautiful, that's fine. But science is not in the eye of the beholder. Science is science and body positivity and healthy at any weight. There's no such thing as healthy at any rate. And they were pushing this. They still are pushing this idea.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Well, it's not that you can be healthy at any weight. It's that we are actually unhealthy at every weight. Now, even people who are thin now, you know, they have.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you're healthier if you're thin.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Well, there is a concept of metabolically healthy obese, which. And there's also tofi, which you may have heard of, thin on the outside, fat on the inside, which means sort of visceral fat around the organs. And that's a thin person who's going to have a lower life expectancy than potentially a heavy person who has metabolic health. So that's why I think reorienting the conversation away from the very emotionally charged obesity conversation towards are you fundamentally cellularly metabolically healthy? It's unemotional. And right now 93% of Americans are not. And we all need to understand that of our health because 93%. 93.2 according to the Journal of the American College of Cardiology 2022 paper showed that only 6.8% of Americans have optimal metabolic health biomarkers. Metabolic health is the most foundational aspect of all health. It's how.

[Bill Maher]

That's the cell stuff.

[Dr. Casey Means]

We were just right.

[Chris Cuomo]

But is that too high a standard like of exports?

[Dr. Casey Means]

No, it's actually incredibly lenient. The actual ranges that they, that they put for metabolic health are vastly more lenient than what I would consider optimal. For instance, a triglyceride less than 150. We want to shoot for 50 to 60. So no, I think if you actually had optimal ranges, it would be about 2%.

[Chris Cuomo]

I read something on TikTok that cholesterol is not really a thing. And I ended my analysis.

[Bill Maher]

No, but can I can I ended it. That's a good topic to get on. That's part of this whole discussion. Cholesterol. This country loves to demonize things. They hear a little bit of the truth.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

Like, can cholesterol be bad for your health? Of course it can. And then they don't realize it can. You need cholesterol vitally. Same thing with sunshine, like sun. A lot of people think sun is just flat out bad for you. Right. And of course you need. We're solar creatures. You have to get sun to convert vitamin D. I'm telling you, figured this out.

[Chris Cuomo]

There was a picture on TikTok of a guy holding a panda and it said on the bottom, eggs aren't so bad after all. And there was a link. I didn't go to it because that was enough.

[Bill Maher]

Well, if you don't like what the. If you don't like what the medical establishment is saying about eggs, just wait six months. Yeah.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Well, this is the problem, right. It's like. And I think this is one of the reasons for revolt against public health in this huge vacuum of trust that RFK and people who agree with him are walking into is that the message was always, oh, we're not going to allow you to do any smart cost benefit analyses. We're not going to give you information like adults and have you parse it. We're going to tell you to sit in your home and we're going to call the police if you go out and we're going to take all these civil liberties away from you and we're going to make you take shots, and that's how this is going to work. Well, now people don't want to listen to them anymore because they lied to them and they bullied them. And we're going to have a different conversation.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Dr. Casey Means]

And health got destroyed for children during that time period, and mothers don't like.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Because no one's paid for it.

[Bill Maher]

So here's a question, and I know people are saying this. What are the chances of contracting bird flu from raw milk? Because raw is. You know, RFK put out a tweet, and when I read the tweet, and he said, we're going to have all these things that have been demonized and sometimes made illegal. Like, I know people who've had to go to Mexico to have stem cell therapy. Why do we have to go to Mexico? It's not witch doctor stuff. It's stem cell. But we. Okay, I could go off on my horse on a lot of these, but bird flu from raw milk? Now, can you get diseases from raw food?

[Chris Cuomo]

What are you looking at us for?

[Bill Maher]

You got a double? Okay, but I'm saying if you can you get something from raw. Yes, of course you can. I mean, the debate. I'm just trying to set it up for people on what we're talking about. The debate is, yes, when you pasteurize and homogenize things, you're never going to get sick from it immediately because you kill the bacteria. But the point is that you want the good bacteria.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

That's why we want raw. So there are places or there are times when raw would be bad for you. Yes. But to blanketly make it illegal is something a lot of people like myself don't want. We want to get raw. I'm with you, Farmer, and I've had it. Farmer Ben.

[Chris Cuomo]

Farmer Ben.

[Bill Maher]

Is that about right?

[Dr. Casey Means]

You know, I think it's important to pop up from some of these fringe super Deborah divisive issues like rime and fluoride and this and that. Because the reality is, I think what people want is to fulfill the American dream and feel free. And right now, there's this obsession with eliminating risk. I think that's what we saw with COVID If you actually go to the HHS.gov website right now, the banner at the top is something like, less risk, more living. And it's their ad for getting shots, basically. But I think we've really distorted the conversation around Risk. It's like the best possible thing is zero risk. But that's not living. That's being imprisoned. Okay? And so I want to be able to form a relationship with a local farmer, understand his integrity, look him in the eyes, pet his cow, and then understand if I can drink his milk. And I want to see inside his barn. It's not about. It's not about the raw milk. It's about this bloating of regulation, which is antithetical to what the founding fathers wanted, and a sense of being sort of imprisoned by overburdensome regulation. And I think that. And on top of the health benefits, I think it's bigger than the milk. I really do.

[Bill Maher]

Farmers in your area want you to pet the cow.

[Dr. Casey Means]

You know, we get. You know, we get. All right, now, there's a war on small farmers. There is a war on small farmers where they are being. There's four conglomerates for meat in the country. They want all the meat to be sold to bigger conglomerates.

[Bill Maher]

I'll just ask one more thing about this, because obviously this is the issue we're all interested in talking about. You mentioned fluoride. Now, I don't know shit about fluoride. I know they put it in the water when I was a kid, and I guess they still do. Then I was reading this week because he mentioned fluoride. And again, this is the problem with our health discussions in America. Half the people in this country hear somebody who's going to question fluoride and they go, oh, my God, Bobby Kennedy's a crazy person who wants to take fluoride out of the water. And I'm not that person.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

Like fluoride. I don't know. Did it hurt me being in the water? Probably not. But again, it's naturally occurring. I don't know why we have to put more of it. If I wanted, I could get it in toothpaste. You know what I want in my water? Nothing. Water. How about that? So I'm not afraid of fluoride, but I don't want you to put shit in my water. I like water. And also I read that it does have health repercussions.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

Well.

[Kathleen Hamm]

And the basis of that is you're not afraid to have that conversation. And a lot of people are getting very sick of being told they cannot have conversations.

[Bill Maher]

Right? That's it.

[Chris Cuomo]

I think that's the best hope I've seen. I mean, look, I took a lot of things that I thought were good to see in the elections separate from the outcome of who Won. Right. Because everybody has their feelings about that. People voted as independents more than ever before. They voted as independent more than as Democrat. And that's probably because of attrition from the party, but equal to Republicans. And I believe that's the best hope we have here. And as you know, you're a magnet for that audience because you need to get back to critical thinking and people who are okay hearing ideas they don't agree with. It's the biggest problem we've had in our business. The number one complaint I get that isn't, like, related to my face is, you gave this person a platform. Why did you give them a platform? I said, well, you know, there's a lot of people who believe. Yeah, but there are people who don't agree with, you know, Dr. Casey. Yeah, I know, but she's got real ideas. As the number one times bestseller. And we gotta figure something out because, you know, everybody's walking around like three times as size they were when I was a kid.

[Kathleen Hamm]

Refused to platform people at the expense of hearing from voters and what they believed. And then you miss a big story like how to win an election.

[Chris Cuomo]

We have.

[Bill Maher]

There's too many ways of shutting down debate in this country. Just like words that you just say like, you know, Islamophobe. Oh, well, we can't talk about that issue at all. Get your phone.

[Dr. Casey Means]

Disinformation. Disinformation. Science platforming.

[Bill Maher]

Not here. We do it all. Thank you, everybody.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.

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