Overtime – Episode #688: Gov. Josh Shapiro, Batya Ungar-Sargon, Sam Stein

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher: Overtime – Episode #688 Summary

Release Date: March 18, 2025

In Episode #688 of HBO’s "Real Time with Bill Maher," host Bill Maher engages in a dynamic discussion with guests Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Sam Stein of MSNBC, and Batya Ungar-Sargon. The conversation delves into pressing political topics, including Democratic strategies, education policy, the influence of teacher unions, and recent controversial actions by former President Donald Trump. The episode balances serious discourse with moments of levity, providing listeners with comprehensive insights into current political landscapes.

---

1. Democratic Party’s Approach to Male Voters

Bill Maher opens the discussion by posing a critical question to Governor Shapiro:

Bill Maher [01:01]: "Do Democrats have a problem with courting male voters? How can they win them back?"

Governor Josh Shapiro responds by emphasizing inclusivity and opportunity for all:

Josh Shapiro [01:47]: "I think it's about giving everybody the freedom to chart their own course, the opportunity to succeed, lifting everybody up, not trying to create others, not trying to slice and dice the electorate."

Shapiro highlighted his initiatives aimed at broadening opportunities, such as eliminating the college degree requirement for 92% of positions and increasing vocational education funding by 50%. He stressed that these measures are designed to benefit all demographics without discrimination.

Josh Shapiro [02:02]: "We don't care if you're male, female, black, white, doesn't matter. We want you to have opportunity in Pennsylvania. We want to lift everybody up."

---

2. Controversial Incident at the Kennedy Center

The conversation shifts to a recent event where JD Vance was booed at the Kennedy Center. Maher addresses the incident:

Bill Maher [02:49]: "Was it inappropriate for the audience? This is for you, Baja, to boo JD Vance at the Kennedy center last night. No. It's free speech."

Sam Stein and Panelist 1 express their discomfort with the audience's behavior:

Panelist 1 [03:17]: "They booed him. They called him like a series of expletives. He was with his wife. I thought it was kind of gross."

Maher reflects on the growing intolerance in political discourse, noting that such confrontations are becoming increasingly common across the political spectrum.

Bill Maher [03:30]: "People have been at dinner, and people will surround them and force them to, including from the left."

---

3. Discussion on "Love is Blind"

Maher introduces a segment about the reality TV show "Love is Blind," prompting reactions from his guests.

Bill Maher [03:53]: "Did you see the Love is Blind story?"

Sam Stein critiques the show's premise, suggesting that political affiliations played a role in a contestant's decision to end an engagement.

Bill Maher [04:07]: "She's at the altar, and she jilts her fiance at the altar because... he didn't seem like he did a hell of a lot."

The guests discuss the superficial nature of relationships formed on the show, intertwined with political considerations.

---

4. Trump Administration and the Department of Education

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the Trump administration's actions concerning the Department of Education. Maher raises concerns about potential budget cuts and the effectiveness of the department:

Bill Maher [05:11]: "What does the panel think of the Trump administration gutting and potentially eliminating the Department of Education?"

Governor Shapiro defends the importance of federal support in education, especially for children with special needs and those from impoverished backgrounds.

Josh Shapiro [05:25]: "I want every child of God to have the freedom to chart their own course, the opportunity to succeed."

However, Maher expresses skepticism about the Department's efficiency, citing misallocation of funds.

Bill Maher [05:46]: "I saw that story about the 20 billion that went out the door after Biden lost the EPA... did they think this money was going to get rid of the plastics in my brain?"

---

5. Influence of Teacher Unions on the Democratic Party

The role of teacher unions within the Democratic Party is scrutinized. Maher questions whether the party is overly influenced by these unions, especially regarding policies enacted during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Bill Maher [08:36]: "Is the Democratic Party too much in the pocket of the teachers union?"

Josh Shapiro counters by highlighting collaborative efforts to improve education, such as increasing teacher numbers and reducing class sizes.

Josh Shapiro [08:53]: "We partnered with our teachers unions in Pennsylvania to increase the number of teachers we have in the classrooms to reduce class sizes and to improve outcomes for kids."

---

6. Trump’s Speech at the Department of Justice and Political Prosecution

A heated exchange ensues over Donald Trump’s unprecedented speech at the Department of Justice (DOJ), where he called for retribution against political enemies.

Bill Maher [11:06]: "What does the panel think of Trump speaking at the DOJ?... jail talk."

Sam Stein criticizes Trump's rhetoric, viewing it as a dangerous conflation of the DOJ with personal vendettas.

Sam Stein [11:25]: "He gave a political speech at the DOJ... he looks at the Department of Justice as his personal law enforcement agency."

The discussion touches on the integrity of the Justice Department, with Shapiro emphasizing the need for impartiality in prosecutorial actions.

Josh Shapiro [13:55]: "There can be no room for politics in that. That's what worries me. When anyone, Democrat or Republican, injects politics into prosecution, that's a dangerous thing for them."

---

7. Light-Hearted Moment: Philly Fanatic vs. Gritty

In a lighter segment, Maher poses a playful question to Governor Shapiro:

Bill Maher [15:11]: "Who would win in a fight between the Philly Fanatic and Gritty?"

Shapiro humorously defers to Gritty’s toughness, referencing his reputation in the hockey community.

Josh Shapiro [15:33]: "His name is Gritty... he'd have to give it to Gritty on that one."

Maher jokingly responds by mimicking Bernie Sanders, adding a touch of humor to the intense political discourse.

Bill Maher [15:48]: "All right, I'm going to answer this one as Bernie Sanders. This is bullshit."

---

Conclusion

Episode #688 of "Real Time with Bill Maher" offers a robust discussion on the strategic directions of the Democratic Party, the interplay between education policy and political influence, and the ramifications of former President Trump’s confrontational rhetoric towards political adversaries. Governor Shapiro provides practical insights into fostering inclusive opportunities, while Sam Stein underscores the importance of maintaining integrity within the Justice Department. The episode adeptly balances serious political analysis with moments of levity, encapsulating the multifaceted nature of contemporary political dialogue.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Shapiro [01:47]: "I think it's about giving everybody the freedom to chart their own course, the opportunity to succeed, lifting everybody up..."

• Bill Maher [03:30]: "We don't live in that country, but that ship has sailed."

• Sam Stein [05:07]: "You need to put that ring on or whatever it was."

• Josh Shapiro [13:55]: "There can be no room for politics in that."

• Bill Maher [15:48]: "All right, I'm going to answer this one as Bernie Sanders. This is bullshit."

---

This summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't tuned in. By highlighting key discussions and notable quotes, listeners can grasp the critical issues addressed and the perspectives shared by the guests.

Transcript

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply.

[Pluto TV Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Pluto tv. Pluto TV has all the shows and movies you love streaming for free. That means laughter is free with gut busting comedies like the Neighborhood Key and Peele and Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Mystery is free with countless cases to crack from Criminal Minds Tracker and Matlock. And thrills are free with heart pumping hits like the Walking Dead and Defiance. Feel the free Pluto TV stream now. Pay Never.

[Bill Maher]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher. Okay, here we are back. He's the Democratic governor of Pennsylvania, Joe Shapiro. He's an MSNBC contributor in the Bulwarks Managing Sam Star. And she is a journalist and author of the book Second Class. Vatya Ungar Sargon. Okay, here are the questions directly from the people. It's like the People Choice Awards, but with questions. First one is for you, Governor. Do Democrats have a problem with courting male voters? How can they win them back? Well, I did see Nancy Pelosi's comment today after the vote with the brouja with Schumer was that they should have listened to the women. Are we going to break down on men, women thing now in the Democratic Party?

[Josh Shapiro]

I don't think we should. I think it's about giving everybody the freedom to chart their own course, the opportunity to succeed, lifting everybody up, not trying to create others, not trying to slice and dice the electorate. I'll tell you the first thing I did, Bill, when I was.

[Bill Maher]

And that goes racially too.

[Josh Shapiro]

I think it's for everybody. Absolutely. First thing I did when I was governor, literally after taking the oath of office, I signed my first executive order doing away with the college degree requirement for 92%.

[Bill Maher]

I had done bits on that myself because I want people to have a shot.

[Josh Shapiro]

And then we follow that up by increasing our votech budget in high schools by 50%. And get this 81 new apprenticeship programs, everything from dairy herd management to welding. And we've got 12,400 new Pennsylvanians going through apprenticeships. We don't care if you're male, female, black, white, doesn't matter. We want you to have opportunity in Pennsylvania. We want to lift everybody up.

[Bill Maher]

But the question was, do Democrats have a problem with male? But that's gonna be the answer no matter what's the matter. All right, all right. Was it inappropriate for the audience? This is for you, Baja, to boo JD Vance at the Kennedy center last night. No. It's free speech. Okay, Come on.

[Josh Shapiro]

She didn't even get to answer.

[Bill Maher]

You're right. I'm so sorry.

[Sam Stein]

You're right.

[Bill Maher]

I tell you what.

[Panelist 1]

You were comfortable watching that?

[Bill Maher]

I didn't see it. What happened?

[Sam Stein]

They booed him.

[Panelist 1]

They booed him. They called him like a series of expletives. He was with his wife. I thought it was kind of gross. I don't know what you guys thought.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, it would be lovely if we didn't live in that country, but that ship has sailed. And, you know, it happens to the other side, too. People have been at dinner, and people will surround them and force them to, including from the left. I mean, we saw that during the Black Lives Matter riots. People would be having dinner, and people, you know, come on, get out there. Like, I'm having dinner. Can you wait?

[Panelist 1]

Well, these were definitely leftists booing the vice president.

[Bill Maher]

I understand. Oh, no, no. They're terrible at it. Did you see the Love is Blind story?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Panelist 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Stein]

That was bad.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, so this is. I've never seen this show. Have you ever seen this show, Love is Blind?

[Sam Stein]

I've never seen.

[Bill Maher]

No. Good, good. If you had said yes, you would have lost my vote immediately. But it's. Anyway, so she's at the altar, and she jilts her fiance at the altar because. Didn't seem like he did a hell of a lot. He apparently didn't do enough thinking about Black Lives Matter. He asked him, what do you think about that? Not at the altar. That would be inappropriate, but I guess sometime during the courtship. And he said, I don't know. I haven't thought about it that much.

[Sam Stein]

I don't want to get into the premise of Love is Blind, but they also just met each other, like, four weeks ago and proposed. There might have been some extenuating circumstances.

[Bill Maher]

Beyond the politics, but that's what that was, what you said.

[Sam Stein]

I know. I'm saying it might be a fig leaf.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I see.

[Josh Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Again, they just met each other four weeks ago.

[Bill Maher]

I'm saying that you don't care enough about Black Lives Matter, but I really don't.

[Sam Stein]

I don't Even know you, you have.

[Bill Maher]

A small dick.

[Sam Stein]

You need to put that. You need to put that ring on or whatever it was.

[Bill Maher]

What does the panel think of the Trump administration gutting and potentially eliminating the Department of Education? I'm still thinking about it, honestly.

[Sam Stein]

You take this one.

[Josh Shapiro]

Here's what I care about. I got kids with special needs. I've got kids who are coming from poor families who rely on this funding from the federal government to have a shot in life. I said before, I want every child of God to have the freedom to chart their own course, the opportunity to succeed. The federal government made a compact with those kids. I hope they don't break that compact with those kids.

[Bill Maher]

I guess what the question, though, really is, is the Department of Education doing that now? They probably are doing some good work. I'm sure they are. What is their budget? Like $200 billion or something. But it also looks like some of these places are just funneling money to people who are not solving the problem. I mean, I saw that story about the 20 billion that went out the door after Biden lost the EPA. It wasn't the EPA, or was it the EPA? There was $20 billion that they shoveled to groups because Trump was coming and they were going to reverse all this stuff. And supposedly environmental groups, and they were not really environmental groups, and they had no experience in doing it. Like I said before, I care about the plastics. Did they think. Do I think this money was going to get rid of the plastics in my brain? I do not. So I am skeptical of the Department of Education, and I think every Democrat who runs really needs to take on this because that's your portfolio education. You've owned it. And the results aren't good.

[Sam Stein]

Kids isn't the education standards.

[Bill Maher]

Kids isn't learning.

[Sam Stein]

Kids are not. Kids isn't learning. I think.

[Bill Maher]

Look. Thank you.

[Josh Shapiro]

I think through all this.

[Bill Maher]

I'm sorry, Sam. I'm sorry.

[Sam Stein]

I will say it's clear that our education achievements are not where they need to be. Right. Like we look at any comparison to any other country, we're just not keeping up. The question is, absent that funding, would it be worse? Right. We don't know. This money, if it can get funneled back into the states, I'm assuming there are some Democrats who say, good, keep the top lines at where they are, and we can use it to our benefits. But this money was also used to set education standards, to study how to do better curriculums, to figure out how to recruit teachers in a comprehensive, thorough way. And so I don't know every program that they are cutting right now. But the idea that there won't be any adverse consequences seems not logical.

[Bill Maher]

Of course not, because that's what they do. They blow everything up first. That's what I don't get about this.

[Josh Shapiro]

I think they're going about it wrong. First off, I think it's important that we support the American people, not the American institutions. You are right that there is waste, there is fraud, there is abuse in these institutions. It should be rooted out. It's one of the reasons why when I was a county executive of Pennsylvania's third largest county, we did zero based budgeting. We didn't go in with a hatchet. We literally went in and said your budget zero. Build it up to where it needs to be. And you know what happened? Some agencies were reduced, some agencies got a lot more because it was mission driven. I think we've got to focus on meeting the mission, meeting the goals, and then driving the funding out to meet those goals.

[Bill Maher]

Is the Democratic Party too much in the pocket of the teachers union?

[Josh Shapiro]

No, I think the Democratic Party cares deeply about making sure these children get a shot in life. I certainly care about that. And I'm not suggesting that everything the Department of Education does is what about unions now?

[Bill Maher]

The teachers unions? Because I think like during COVID didn't the teachers union keep the schools closed way too long?

[Josh Shapiro]

Look, we partnered with our teachers unions in Pennsylvania to increase the number of teachers we have in the classrooms to reduce class sizes and to improve outcomes for kids. I think there's ways to work with the teachers unions to make progress for our children.

[Verizon Advertiser]

Switch to Verizon business and get more from your Internet without paying more for your Internet. Get LTE business Internet starting at $39 a month when paired with a business unlimited smartphone plan. That's unlimited data and with it unlimited possibilities. Start saving today with Verizon Business Ranked number one in Small Business Internet Customer Satisfaction by J.D. power Starting price for 25 Mbps Internet Plan with savings plus taxes, fees and economic adjustment Charge terms apply for J.D. power 2024 award information. Visit JDPower.com awards this episode is brought.

[Shopify Advertiser]

To you by Shopify. Forget the frustration of picking commerce platforms when you switch your business to Shopify, the global commerce platform that supercharges your selling wherever you sell. With Shopify, you'll harness the same intuitive features, trusted apps and powerful analytics used by the world's leading brands. Sign up today for your $1 per month trial [e-mail] tech all lowercase that's shopify.com tech I'm William Goudge, a Vuri.

[William Goudge]

Collaborator and professional ultrarunner from the uk. I love to tackle endurance runs around the world, including a 55 day, 3,064 mile run across the US so I know a thing or two about performance wear. When it comes to relaxing, I look for something ultra versatile and comfy. The Ponto Performance Jogger from Burey is perfect for all of those things. It's the comfiest jogger I've ever worn and the Dream Knit fabric is why I'll always reach for them over other joggers. Check them out in the Dream Knit collection by going to Vuori.com William that's V-U-O-R-I.com William where new customers can receive 20% off their first order, plus enjoy free shipping in the US on orders over $75 and free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, what does the panel think of Trump speaking at the doj? That's the Department of Justice. A rare move for a president where he reiterated his call for retribution against his political enemies. I don't like it. You know, I mean, jail talk.

[Sam Stein]

It was crazy.

[Bill Maher]

Not a big fan. Not a big fan of lock her up and everything that came after it. And anybody I don't like in 60 minutes has got to go to jail. And, you know, this one was really wild.

[Sam Stein]

And I say that having watched hundreds of these speeches, but to go to the Department of Justice, which is fairly unprecedented, not totally unprecedented. I mean, people go there. But to give a political speech like that at the DOJ and to say, I'm the chief law enforcement officer of this country, I'm gonna prosecute my enemies, CNN and MSNBC should be illegal. And then tell two random stories about Bobby Knight. Like, it was just. I mean, it did. He was like, just went on these sides about Bobby Knight, and you're sitting there like, what is going on? And then he realized, this is the president. But I was troubled by it because obviously he looks at the Department of Justice as his personal law enforcement agency, and that's not what it is.

[Bill Maher]

And you know what they would say is, that's what they were doing to me. Yeah, The Biden Justice Department, I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

Did you watch Merrick Garland? Did you watch Merrick Garland?

[Bill Maher]

Do you think that's true? You think that's not a fault?

[Panelist 1]

I don't think that's true.

[Bill Maher]

I don't think. No. I think there is such a thing as A Trump Justice Department, and he thinks there should be. I don't think there was a Biden Justice Department so much because they went after their own people.

[Sam Stein]

But you said they indicted Hunter Biden.

[Bill Maher]

They indicted Hunter.

[Panelist 1]

It was an accident that they indicted him on 91 counts and then as soon as he became president, they all just evaporated. Turns out there was no there in any of the 90s, and that was not politically mobile.

[Bill Maher]

I don't think they should have gone after everything. I think they had every right to look into the Russia connection. He did some of these things publicly in the open Russia. If you're listening, help me out with the election. His campaign manager was meeting with.

[Panelist 1]

He was indicted on 91 counts that disappeared the minute he became president.

[Bill Maher]

Probably because he ordered them disappear.

[Josh Shapiro]

What.

[Bill Maher]

What are we talking about?

[Sam Stein]

91 counts.

[Panelist 1]

91 counts of what?

[Shopify Advertiser]

The judges themselves simply stopped when he became president.

[Panelist 1]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

You don't see a connection?

[Sam Stein]

Well, that's big.

[Bill Maher]

What do you mean you think he was.

[Panelist 1]

Judge Cannon was taking orders from him.

[Josh Shapiro]

They disappeared.

[Bill Maher]

Do I think judges are taking orders, though?

[Sam Stein]

They disappeared because there's a statute that says a sitting president cannot be prosecuted.

[Bill Maher]

No, that's what it is. No, that is what it is.

[Panelist 1]

It's not true at all.

[Bill Maher]

That's what the Supreme Court.

[Sam Stein]

Well, you are an attorney general of a state. You probably have.

[Josh Shapiro]

I mean, look, I didn't see the president's comments today, and I think this is. Obviously, I hear the difference. Here's what I'll tell you. I'm twice elected Attorney General of Pennsylvania. You have the power when you're a prosecutor, to take away someone's liberty, take away someone's freedom, ruin their reputation and their careers. There can be no room for politics in that. There can't even be a room for the appearance of politics in that. That's what worries me. When anyone, Democrat or Republican, injects politics into prosecution, that's a dangerous thing for them.

[Panelist 1]

So, Governor, does that mean you think that did happen under the last administration?

[Josh Shapiro]

I'm making a general point here that I think we've got to make sure that whoever is the executive, right, a governor, a president, that they do not interfere with the implementation and the prosecution and the work that goes on in a Justice Department, be it a state level or at the federal level, I think that's really important to give people the confidence in knowing that the system is fair and the system is just and the law will be applied without fear or failure.

[Bill Maher]

It's only March of 2025. You're going to get exhausted. All right, one last hard hitting question for you for Governor Shapiro. Who would win in a fight between the Philly Fanatic and Gritty? I don't know who even Gritty is. Who's Gritty?

[Josh Shapiro]

That's a tough call. That's the hardest question you asked me so far.

[Bill Maher]

Gritty is.

[Josh Shapiro]

I mean, look, the Fanatic is beloved, but Gritty's tough. I mean, he is tough. His name is Gritty, I think Gritty. And by the way, Gritty. You know, hockey, they do a lot of fighting there. Not as much fighting in baseball. I'd have to give it to Gritty on that one.

[Bill Maher]

All right, I'm going to answer this one as Bernie Sanders. This is bullshit. There are millionaires and billionaires. Thank you very much.

[Sam Stein]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time.

[Bill Maher]

With Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand.

[Sam Stein]

For more information, log on to hbo.com.

[Shopify Advertiser]

Hi, I'm Jessica Radloff and this is the official Big Bang Theory podcast. The only podcast where you can hear behind the scenes stories, stories, Easter eggs from each episode and the origin story of the cultural phenomenon the Big Bang Theory. Join us on our journey through every episode of the Big Bang Theory wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to watch along with us. Every episode is available to stream on Matt.