Overtime – Episode #703: Thomas Chatterton Williams, Molly Jong-Fast, Walter Kirn

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher – Overtime #703: Thomas Chatterton Williams, Molly Jong-Fast, Walter Kirn

Date: August 19, 2025
Panel:

• Thomas Chatterton Williams (Staff Writer at The Atlantic, Author)
• Molly Jong-Fast (Podcast Host, Author)
• Walter Kirn (Author, Editor-at-large, County Highway Newspaper)

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Episode Overview

This "Overtime" segment features a lively panel discussion on current headlines and cultural trends, offering unscripted takes and candid exchanges on topics ranging from robots in sports and Democratic Party politics to abortion rights and the changing dynamics of dating among Gen Z. The panel balances humor, skepticism, and serious critique, with Bill Maher and guests offering sharp, sometimes irreverent commentary on the issues of the week.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Humanoid Robot Games in China: The Future of Sports?

[00:34–02:24]

• Initial Reaction:
  The panel is largely dismissive of the entertainment value of robot sports.

• Maher compares the idea to childhood toys, saying:

  "I had this toy when I was a kid. Remember? Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots... It sucked then. I think it'll suck now." (00:41)

• Thomas Chatterton Williams emphasizes the irreplaceable human element in sports:

  "I don't watch Google Alpha, whatever, play Stockfish in chess, and I don't want to watch robots compete in sports... What's interesting is the human fallibility. Right. And the quest for excellence." (01:23)

• Molly Jong-Fast notes the lack of emotional stakes:

  "Who wants to watch robots play? Because when they lose, they aren't sorry." (02:18)

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2. Obama’s Call to Socialist NYC Mayor Candidate, Zoran Mamdani

[02:38–05:56]

• Maher raises concerns about Obama influencing the Democratic Party’s direction:

  "Obama, a centrist, sees this you know, to say the least, socialist... because he says capitalism is theft. That is kind of what communists say... Every Democrat across the country is going to have to get the question, 'Mamdani did this. Do you agree?'" (03:18)

• Walter Kirn (as a New Yorker) gives inside context:

  "[Mamdani] is doing a ton of these meetings with real estate people, with the people who really own the city... The question with these liberal mayors is, do you have the infrastructure?... it's a management job, not an ideological job. So will you have the managers?" (03:48)

• Debate over candidates' qualifications arises, touching on rent-controlled apartments and governors-as-mayors.

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3. Costco Stops Selling Mifepristone ("Abortion Pill")

[06:59–08:34]

• Discussion:
  Panelists clarify the uses of mifepristone (for abortion and other health reasons) and riff on the awkwardness of buying such drugs "in bulk" at Costco.

• Walter Kirn:

  "It is also used for a bunch of other things that aren't necessarily abortions ... there's lots of uterine things that involve mifepristone." (07:46)

• Molly Jong-Fast jokes:

  "Just don't take it in the bathroom at Costco." (08:34)

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4. 2024 Election: Why Abortion and 'Democracy' Faltered as Issues

[08:49–10:22]

• Maher points out that issues like abortion and threats to democracy did not galvanize voters as anticipated:

  "Those were two issues that they were counting on people to care about more than they did." (09:06)

• Kirn blames structural changes in media reach:

  "...mainstream media in 2016 was much bigger than it was in 2024... They had so much trouble breaking through about anything... If you go on Joe Rogan... 60, 70, 80 million people saw Trump on Joe Rogan. Right? But if you give an interview to the Washington Post, it's not the same level..." (09:13)

• Kirn, on Democrats' media strategy:

  "You cannot... win if you don't go on Joe Rogan and the Milk Boys and you and everything." (09:49)

• Maher:

  "If you're afraid of the people who voted for you, you just can't win. It's just ridiculous." (10:06)

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5. Dating App Burnout and the Rise of AI Companions

[10:42–12:30]

• Stats cited: 79% of Gen Z have dating app burnout; 1 in 6 American women celibate by choice.

• Maher:

  "I don't think it's a depressing trend that they're getting rid of their dating apps... I think any time you get people off screens, it's good." (10:42)

• Williams argues that dating apps erode social and relationship skills:

  "That's a healthy trend. People should be meeting in person... The top achievers on those apps... people are unable to deal with the complexity of human relations now because... you just say, 'I can't deal with this. I'm just swiping again.' ... and you never grow." (11:15)

• Walter Kirn, tongue-in-cheek:

  "Yeah, it's better just to meet people in bars when you're both really drunk." (11:46)

• Molly Jong-Fast voices concern over AI romantic relationships:

  "I got an ad on my phone just today for an AI girlfriend... Now there are people ... who are getting virtual girlfriends through AI." (11:55)

• Maher ties it back to real human connection:

  "You just cannot get a feel for a human being over the phone. First of all, you don't smell their pheromones... All of this is stuff, even if it's not conscious, that you're taking into account when you meet somebody." (12:30)

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• Williams, on sports and humanity:

  "What's interesting is the human fallibility. Right. And the quest for excellence." (01:23)

• Host (Maher), bluntly on buying abortion pills at Costco:

  "...who needs the abortion pill in bulk? How big of a hoe do you have to be to buy your abortion pills at Costco?" (07:13)

• Kirn, about dating habits:

  "Yeah, it's better just to meet people in bars when you're both really drunk." (11:46)

• Molly Jong-Fast, on digital relationships:

  "I got an ad on my phone just today for an AI girlfriend... At least they were using dating apps to find real human beings; now ... people ... are getting virtual girlfriends through AI." (11:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Humanoid Robot Games in China: 00:34–02:24
• Obama and Socialist NYC Politics: 02:38–05:56
• Costco & Mifepristone: 06:59–08:34
• 2024 Election Issues: 08:49–10:22
• Dating Apps/A.I. Girlfriends: 10:42–12:30
• Advice on Real Human Connection: 12:30–13:11

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Final Thoughts

In classic "Overtime" fashion, the conversation is fast-moving, funny, and bracingly skeptical—a mix of pointed critique and cultural observation. The panel consistently emphasizes the value of human imperfection, direct connection, and the perils of both technological overreach and political insularity, wrapping on a note urging real-world engagement and authenticity in both politics and personal life.

Transcript

[Andrew Siciliano]

The official HBO Hard Knocks podcast is back. I'm your host, Andrew Siciliano. We're joined by NFL and Hard Knocks insiders as the Buffalo Bills prepare to make history.

[Host/Moderator]

We're going to do whatever we can to bring Lombardi back here to Western New York.

[Andrew Siciliano]

Catch Hard Knocks training camp with the Buffalo Bills on HBO Max. Then watch or listen to the Hard Knocks Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the.

[Walter Kern]

HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, here we are in overtime with a staff writer at the Atlantic and author of Summer of Our Discontent, Sir Thomas Jennison Williams, an author and ever at large of county highway newspaper, Walter Kern. And she's a podcast host and author of how to Lose youe Mother, Molly Jungfast. Okay, here are the questions from the people. This is the people's choice. What does the panel think about China hosting the world's first humanoid robot games? Is this the future of sports? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, why would this be interesting to watch? I saw the picture of it. It's robot. It's rock. I had this toy when I was a kid. Remember? Rock Em Ro. Was it the Rock' Em Rock, sock' Em Robo, Something like that. It sucked then. I think it'll suck now. But maybe you have a different.

[Molly Jungfast]

Thomas is a sports fan. What do you think, man?

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

I mean, I don't watch Google Alpha, whatever, play stockfish in chess, and I don't want to watch robots compete in sports. You know, they might even surpass us. But what's interesting is the human fallibility. Right. And the quest for excellence.

[Host/Moderator]

Are you a sports fan?

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

I'm a big sports fan.

[Host/Moderator]

Oh, you are?

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Walter Kern]

Oh, good.

[Host/Moderator]

Like, what sports?

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

Well, I mean, in adulthood, the sport that I love that I can't play myself is tennis. So I'm an Adal guy, Die Hard Nadal fan, and it killed me when Djokovic passed him.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay. No, I mean, I do like tennis. I don't watch it that much, but. No, I mean, I watch like the Finals of Wilmington and tennis is awesome. Sure, yeah, sports. I don't watch ESPN much because it's like, they cover too many sports. I only really watch the big Three, you know, baseball, football, basketball, and only the pros.

[Molly Jungfast]

But who wants to watch robots play? Because when they lose, they aren't sorry.

[Walter Kern]

That's a good point in this incredibly stupid question. It really was robots. Here are things. I hate sports robots.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, then let's go to a different one. Does Obama calling New York City Mayor candidate Zoran Mandami normalize his socialist politics. Yes. We don't know what Obama said to him, but Obama does this a lot. You know, he kind of like puts his thumb on the scale behind the scenes. You know, remember he tried to get Ruth Bader Ginsburg to quit. That didn't work that time. I think he, you know, he kind of like put his thumb on the scale of Hillary getting the nomination in 2016 when Biden thought maybe it was his turn. He's a cagey behind the scenes player. And so apparently, I mean, what it looks like to me, reading between the lines is Obama, a centrist, sees this, you know, to say the least, socialist. I mean, some people would say communist, you know, because he says capitalism is theft. That is kind of what communists say says this guy is going to be the face of the Democratic Party. And every Democrat across the country is going to have to get the question, Mondame did this. Mondame said this. Do you agree? And then what are the Democrats going to do? So is that how you read Obama in New York?

[Walter Kern]

Just a little color on the Mondami? Because I live in New York where this is all anyone talks about is he is doing a ton of these meetings with real estate people, with the people who really own the city, the real estate people and the, you know, the sort of the New Yorky business leaders. And he's talking to people and he's made some, you know, he says that he's going to keep a lot of people on. And you know, again, the question with these liberal mayors is, do you have the infrastructure? Because remember, the city is. It's a job that's largely a management job and not an ideological job. So will you have the managers?

[Host/Moderator]

He certainly doesn't see it that way.

[Walter Kern]

But will you have the managers to make the city work? And I think that's going to be the question.

[Molly Jungfast]

What does Mamdani do for a living?

[Host/Moderator]

Good question, but not a question that you couldn't ask for a lot of people running for office. I mean, true. I mean, most of them are lawyers, though. Yeah, no, he was a city councilman. He's doing the normal thing that you go to the mayor's position from another position in city government. Right. I mean, that's what Cuomo is making a big stink about. The fact that he has a rent free. Not a rent free, but a rent controlled apartment.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

And he said rent stabilized.

[Host/Moderator]

Rent stabilized, which is, I mean, I mean, I like Andrew, but what a bullshit issue. I mean, he's Going. And he's saying, you know, well, you know, your parents are rich. Okay. Who says, yeah, my parents are going to pay my rent. He's 33 years old. The parents have nothing to do with it. His parent could be Bill Gates.

[Walter Kern]

Well, also, Cuomo hasn't lived in New York. He just recently moved back into the city.

[Host/Moderator]

Right, but he's a New Yorker.

[Walter Kern]

I mean, he's living in. He's living in the country.

[Host/Moderator]

I mean, okay, but he was the governor. They give them a mansion in Albany. I mean, I don't think he's unqualified to run the city of New York. I think he's rather familiar with New York. Andrew Cuomo.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

But Eric Adams is living in New Jersey.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah, well, he was living in New Jersey.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

He never gave up at apartment.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah, he didn't.

[Host/Moderator]

That's weird.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

That's another thing.

[Host/Moderator]

Wow. That's worse than the turkey.

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[Andrew Siciliano]

The official HBO Hard Knocks podcast is back. I'm your host, Andrew Siciliano. We're joined by NFL and Hard Knocks insiders as the Buffalo Bills prepare to make history.

[Host/Moderator]

We're going to do whatever we can to bring Lombardi back here to Western New York.

[Andrew Siciliano]

Catch Hard Knocks training camp with the Buffalo Bills on HBO Max. Then watch or listen to the Hard Knocks podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay. Oh, I read this today. Costco is now stopping selling methypristone.

[Walter Kern]

Methapristone.

[Host/Moderator]

Thank you. This is the birth control pill.

[Walter Kern]

It's actually an abortion pill.

[Host/Moderator]

Abortion pill.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

And they said lack of demand. That's why they're not going to sell it anymore. Now, Costco, isn't that where you buy things in bulk? That's the first thing that struck me, is like, who needs the abortion pill in bulk? How big of a hoe do you have to be to buy your abortion pills at Costco?

[Walter Kern]

I'm making the sad feminist face. Okay, so two things about methapristone.

[Host/Moderator]

Yes.

[Walter Kern]

It is also used for a bunch of other things that aren't necessarily abortions. They're. I could go into it but it's too gross.

[Host/Moderator]

Right.

[Walter Kern]

But there's lots of uterine things that involve Methopristone and there's a. It's a two drug series. The other thing is, like with birth control, a lot birth control pills, a lot of these things were covered by insurance and aren't anymore or are being phased out under the new sort of, you know, because they seem woke. The thing I would say about birth control is there are a lot of people who are on birth control and they're not on it for birth control. They're on it to, you know, all sorts of really, you know, to control their symptoms of other stuff. Right. Of hormones. And so I do think that these two. These drugs are. They're about Methopristone, but they're also about larger issues. You know, people use them for other stuff.

[Molly Jungfast]

Just don't take it in the bathroom at Costco.

[Host/Moderator]

Really.

[Molly Jungfast]

I would want a little more. I would want a little more privacy if I was buying an abortion drug than in the line at Costco. I'm sorry.

[Host/Moderator]

All right, let me broaden this out a little bit. Were you surprised that the abortion issue, which many of us thought was going to be the one that put the Democrats over the top, was not the issue that they thought it was going to be? Neither was democracy, by the way, as.

[Walter Kern]

That turned out to be a.

[Host/Moderator]

Those were two issues that they were counting on people to care about more than they did. What do you make of that?

[Walter Kern]

I mean, I think there was a larger problem which was a structural problem, which is the mainstream media in 2016 was much bigger than it was in 2024. It was so much smaller. And they were just. They had so much trouble breaking through about anything. You know, I mean, Joe Rogan, if you go on Joe Rogan, I think it's like, you know, 10, it's like 60, 70, 80 million people saw Trump on Joe Rogan. Right. But if you give an interview to the Washington Post, it's not the same level of, you know, breaking through.

[Host/Moderator]

Well, then maybe Kamala should. I went on Joe Rogan or this show.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah. I mean, my point, and I think you have the point that Democrats should go everywhere is 100% right. You cannot. There is no world in which an elected can win if they don't go on Joe Rogan and the Milk boys and you and everything.

[Host/Moderator]

If you're afraid of the people who voted for you, you're just afraid he can. I mean, well, you just can't win. It's just ridiculous.

[Walter Kern]

And if you don't and if you don't go, if you don't go everywhere, then you're not anywhere. And that's it.

[Host/Moderator]

That's right.

[Molly Jungfast]

They made it a state issue. It's no longer a federal issue.

[Host/Moderator]

Right, but people live in states.

[Molly Jungfast]

Well, they do, but they can fight it state by state and that's the way they're doing it. I mean, well, not if they see change in our politics. Trump and the Supreme Court brought abortion off the national stage and onto the.

[Host/Moderator]

Well, I'm pregnant. I've got nine months to get the legislator to change the law. I mean, that's not how people think. Recent surveys found that 79% of Gen Z say they have dating app burnout and 1 in 6American women are celibate by choice. What's to blame for this depressing trend? I don't think it's a depressing trend that they're getting rid of their dating apps. I think that's a fantastic trend. Not that it affects me anyway, but I mean, no, it doesn't. But I mean, I think anytime you get people off screens, it's good.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

That's a healthy trend. People should be meeting in person. This is a terrible movement our society has made towards everything being virtual. And also the way that people are able. The top achievers on those apps are able to kill. And so people are unable to deal with the complexity of human relations now because if you're on the apps and everybody's on the apps, as soon as there's a little bit of friction, you just say, I can't deal with this. I'm just swiping again. And you get another. You know, you just keep replacing the initial stage of a relationship and you never grow.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah, it's better just to meet people in bars when you're both really drunk.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

When you're both really drunk.

[Walter Kern]

Yeah, I think that's better.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

I think it's life together.

[Host/Moderator]

It actually is.

[Molly Jungfast]

I got an ad on my phone just today for an AI girlfriend. I mean, you know, at least they were using dating apps to find real human beings now. Now there are people, and I've seen stories about it in just the last few weeks who are getting virtual girlfriends through AI.

[Host/Moderator]

But why did they ask you what did you previously like? It's a reasonable question. What?

[Molly Jungfast]

It's like Amazon book recommendations. They know what you want before, you know.

[Host/Moderator]

But I would say the kids should take a hint from the summit there in Alaska if I can wrap up the show in one deep bow tonight. But like Putin and Trump, they did decide that we need to look each other in the eye because, you know, it just is different. And it actually is the same with any kind of relationship. You just cannot get a feel for a human being over the phone. First of all, you don't smell their Femurones. Right? That's literally a part of it. You don't see facial expressions. You don't. All of this is stuff, even if it's not conscious that you're taking into account when you meet somebody. And so, you know, kids, take a. From Vladimir. All right. Thank you, everybody. I appreciate it.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at.

[Walter Kern]

10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand.

[Thomas Jennison Williams]

For more information, log on to hbo.com.