Overtime – Episode #704: Andrew Huberman, Frank Bruni, Christopher Rufo

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher – Overtime Episode #704: Andrew Huberman, Frank Bruni, Christopher Rufo

Date: August 26, 2025
Guests: Andrew Huberman (Neuroscientist & host of Huberman Lab), Frank Bruni (Author, Professor at Duke), Christopher Rufo (Senior Fellow, Manhattan Institute)

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Episode Overview

In this Overtime segment, Bill Maher moderates a lively, rapid-fire panel discussion with neuroscientist Andrew Huberman, author and professor Frank Bruni, and cultural commentator Christopher Rufo. The conversation weaves through contemporary health debates, cultural shifts, and political controversies, all seasoned with bright humor and pointed disagreements. Topics include the impact of weight loss drugs like Ozempic, the shifting standards around body positivity, pot versus alcohol, political prosecutions in the U.S., and even the nutritional pros and cons of raw milk.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ozempic, Obesity, and Metabolism

(01:19–04:45)

• Huberman on Ozempic's Significance:
  • "Ozempic has made one thing very clear... so many Americans are obese because they eat more than they burn." (Andrew Huberman, 01:32)
  • Debates about metabolism and obesity are addressed: the law of thermodynamics (calories in vs. out) is underscored.
• Concerns About Ozempic:
  • It's expensive and weight is regained if discontinued unless paired with resistance training.
  • "If people want to go on it or take less or go off it, they’re going to need to do something to offset the reduction in metabolism." (Andrew Huberman, 01:54)
• Other Effects and Side Benefits:
  • Reduces alcohol and sugar cravings, showing potential in addiction treatments.
  • Compounding pharmacies offer more affordable, micro-dosed options.
  • Huberman is pragmatic: "It’s not all black and white... if you exercise, get your morning sunlight... you can go a long way towards your health." (Andrew Huberman, 04:19)
  • Most Americans, he observes, "don’t want to do that and would rather take a pill."

2. Body Positivity, Beauty Standards, and Ozempic’s Cultural Impact

(04:53–06:17)

• Cultural Shifts Noted:
  • Frank Bruni observes that with Ozempic, "I hear much less about the body positivity movement, which was always Orwellian." (Frank Bruni, 04:53)
• Rufo on Beauty Standards:
  • Claims that attempts to redefine beauty (e.g., "400 pounds ... was the new vision of beauty") are propaganda, while classical beauty norms persist.
    • "People throughout time have an idea of classical standards of beauty... reflects what people want." (Christopher Rufo, 05:12)
  • Acknowledges cultural variety but stresses that "more people would rather be... low body fat than be 500 pounds." (Christopher Rufo, 05:52)
• Pushback:
  • Maher counters: "Maybe in your white world," insisting on cultural variation in beauty ideals.
  • Bruni: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but science is not." (Frank Bruni, 06:17)

3. Comedians in Saudi Arabia: Commerce Over Principle?

(06:17–07:19)

• American Comedians Performing in Saudi Arabia:
  • Comedians taking gigs there prompt questions about changing liberal attitudes towards the country.
• Panel Consensus:
  • Chris Rufo jokes about the risks: "It might add in a public beheading if you say the wrong thing." (Christopher Rufo, 06:53)
  • Bruni: "Political principles tend to go out the window when there’s enough money on the table." (Panel, 07:15)
  • The consensus is that lucrative pay trumps political reservations.

4. Pot vs. Alcohol: Which Is Worse for Health?

(07:19–10:45)

• Is Pot Worse Than Alcohol?:
  • Bruni asks, "Is pot worse than alcohol?" and Maher claims "Of course alcohol’s worse than pot." (Frank Bruni & Bill Maher, 07:19)
• Huberman’s Guidelines:
  • "Zero alcohol is better than any." Two drinks per week is the upper threshold before risk for cancer rises. (Andrew Huberman, 07:57)
  • "Especially for women and breast cancer... it’s unequivocal." (Andrew Huberman, 08:23)
  • Moderate drinking is still harmful, but lifestyle factors can partially offset risks.
• Audience Humor:
  • Jokes about personal drinking habits ("Apparently way too many.") and Maher’s quip: "You’re allowed to enjoy life, but it’ll be a shorter one." (Bill Maher, 09:00)
• Cannabis Consumption and Risks:
  • High-THC cannabis, especially edibles, can cause panic and psychosis, whereas people tend to self-regulate better when smoking or vaping.
  • "The panics and the psychotic episodes...is because of these edibles where they eat an edible, and then suddenly they’re twice the desired plane of high." (Andrew Huberman, 09:55)

5. Food, Immigration, and the FBI’s Search of John Bolton’s Home

(10:45–15:24)

• Random Audience Question:
  • On whether immigration crackdowns will impact culinary diversity, Bruni admits, "I have no idea." (Frank Bruni, 11:06)
• John Bolton’s FBI Search and Political Retaliation:
  • Debate over whether the search signals FBI politicization.
  • Rufo argues tit-for-tat legal attacks are restoring "parity" after years of political weaponization against Trump.
    • "Tit for tat is a way to recalibrate the system to get back to parity." (Christopher Rufo, 12:47)
  • He claims Trump was "the most persecuted political figure in American history."
• Nixon and Watergate Reappraised:
  • Rufo suggests, controversially, that Watergate was "a setup," predicting, "Nixon vindication by 2035." (Christopher Rufo, 15:07)
  • Panelists challenge this, referencing the infamous tapes and cover-up evidence.

6. Raw Milk, Gut Bacteria, and the Science of Nutrition

(16:43–21:29)

• Raw Milk Debate:
  • Bruni raises the pasteurization-versus-probiotics debate:
    • "Pasteurization...just like vaccines... do kill the good bacteria. And we do want good bacteria." (Frank Bruni, 16:57)
  • Goat milk can be tolerable for some who are lactose intolerant.
  • Huberman highlights the gut microbiome’s role in health and immunity: "This is one of the most important discoveries of the last 20 years." (Andrew Huberman, 17:46)
• Risks and Benefits:
  • Raw dairy can be beneficial for gut flora if properly sourced and handled – otherwise, contamination is a danger.
• Sugar and Appetite:
  • Gut bacteria influence hunger and even sugar cravings by signaling the dopamine centers in the brain.
    • "When you eat sugary foods...they act on cells in your gut...and cause you to want to eat more." (Andrew Huberman, 19:43)
  • The American problem is not sugar itself but its omnipresence in non-dessert foods (breads, etc.).
  • "Most adults in the United States eat like children... high sugar, high carbohydrate and sugar combinations." (Andrew Huberman, 20:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Andrew Huberman:
  • "If you exercise, get your morning sunlight, you get your sleep, eat mostly unprocessed foods, you can go a long way toward your health."
  • "Zero alcohol is better than any." (07:57)
• Frank Bruni:
  • "Body positivity... was always Orwellian... being fat was body positivity. It is the exact opposite." (04:53)
  • "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but science is not." (06:17)
• Christopher Rufo:
  • "People throughout time have an idea of classical standards of beauty... [we] have an American standard of beauty that actually reflects what people want." (05:12)
  • "Tit for tat is a way to recalibrate the system to get back to parity." (12:47)
  • "Nixon vindication by 2035." (15:07)
• Bill Maher:
  • "You’re allowed to enjoy life, but it’ll be a shorter one." (09:00)
  • "Maybe in your white world..." (06:08)
  • [On American diet:] "Most adults in the United States eat like children." (20:49)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Ozempic & Obesity Science | 01:19–04:45 | | Body Positivity & Beauty Standards | 04:53–06:17 | | US Comedians Performing in Saudi Arabia | 06:17–07:19 | | Pot vs. Alcohol Discussion | 07:19–10:45 | | Politics: FBI, John Bolton, Nixon | 10:45–15:24 | | The Raw Milk & Gut Microbiome Debate | 16:43–21:29 |

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Final Thoughts

The episode blends robust scientific insight with social commentary, political debate, and sharp humor. While consensus is rare, the panel’s exchanges offer new frames for the week’s hottest topics—from the underlying science of obesity and diet fads, through changing cultural narratives, to the ongoing drama of American politics and policy.

Transcript

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Bill Maher]

All right, here we are with a neuroscientist and host of the Huberman Lab, Andrew Huberman. He is a professor at Duke and author of the Age of Grievance, Frank Rooney, and he's a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. His book is called America's Cultural Christopher Ruffo.

[Frank Rooney]

Okay, here are the questions from the people out there. What do you think, Andrew, of the rise of Ozempic? How has it changed the way we think about. Oh, that's a great question. What is your take on Ozempic?

[Andrew Huberman]

Ozempic has made one thing very clear that people debated for a long time, which is the reason that so many Americans are obese, is because they eat more than they burn. Remember, that was a debate not long ago.

[Frank Rooney]

What's still a debate? I still read. It read like it's a mystery.

[Andrew Huberman]

Well, it absolutely. It absolutely. I mean, these are the laws of thermodynamics. If you take in more calories than you burn, you're gonna put on weight over time. Some people burn more at rest and so they don't need to move around as much. But people, people have been eating too much, in particular these highly processed foods, et cetera. We can talk about those. The interesting thing about Ozempic that bothers a lot of people is that it is very expensive and if you go off it, you gain the weight back. Unless you do something like resistance training, AKA weight training to keep the muscle that you have because muscle is a highly metabolically active tissue. So if people want to go on it or take less or go off it, they're going to need to do something to offset the reduction in metabolism. The other thing that's happening now.

[Frank Rooney]

Is it the drug itself? Do you think it's unhealthy?

[Andrew Huberman]

Well, it raises these GLP levels. This natural peptide that limits appetite by thousandfold. Excuse me, increases by thousandfold over what it normally is. It's extremely effective, and I would say for getting a lot of weight off of people who really need that, I think it's a great first pass, especially if they're unwilling to exercise. I think anytime a pharmaceutical is on the table, okay, should somebody take an ssri? Should they not? The real question is what are they willing to do instead? If they're willing to exercise, resistance, train and eat well, we then probably don't need Ozempic.

[Frank Rooney]

But they say Ozempic has other functions too, that could be valuable. What I always want to know when they come up with something and then somebody says, well, it's effective at what we designed it for. I'm like, I'm never arguing with that. I want to know is what happens downstream. Because again, just as the layman, common sense is when you block one thing in the body, usually it has some other effect somewhere else.

[Andrew Huberman]

Absolutely.

[Frank Rooney]

That's what I'm asking you. What is going on? It's doing the thing it's supposed to do. What is the bad side of that? Or is there one?

[Andrew Huberman]

Well, there are activities of GLP1 outside of appetite. So you see things like nausea. You also see reductions in appetite for alcohol because of the reductions in sugar cravings. So that's considered a positive side effect. There are now a number of people that are looking at this for the treatment of various addictions. I'm not saying it's all good. I will also say that there's a very important thing happening in the legislature now, which is to look at what are called compounding pharmacies. People have realized that you don't necessarily have to buy the super expensive Ozempic from the big pharma companies. You can get it from compounding pharmacies, which are going to give you the same thing. And microdosing of Ozempic in combination with healthy lifestyle, but even just microdosing of smaller amounts for far cheaper, like one tenth the prescribed dose, far cheaper, and turns out to be pretty effective. So what we're finding is like most things, it's not all black and white. I'm not either strongly pro or against. However, I will say with confidence that if you exercise, get your morning sunlight, you get your sleep, you try and eat mostly unprocessed or minimally processed foods, you can go a long way towards your health. And I will also say it's clear that most Americans don't want to do that and would rather take a pill.

[Bill Maher]

It's just a reality, right?

[Frank Rooney]

It's just a reality.

[Bill Maher]

But it was. It was interesting.

[Frank Rooney]

Now that we have Ozempic, I hear much less about the body positivity movement, which was always Orwellian. It was always Orwellian to say that being fat was body positivity. It is the exact opposite. Or this bullshit about how you could be healthy at any weight. This is your wheelhouse, though, this kind of stuff.

[Christopher Rufo]

Yeah. I mean, you look at the advertising and you talked about the Sydney Sweeney ad. That represents a huge sea change. I mean, they tried to pump the airwaves full of propaganda that if you were £400 and you had some kind of esoteric outfit on that, that was the new vision of beauty. They had some college kids believing it. But the reality is that people throughout time have an idea of classical standards of beauty. And in our case, in our civilization, there have been an American standard of beauty that actually reflects what people want.

[Frank Rooney]

And so fat was in at a time. You can see it in the paintings. But it's when people were poor and food was, you know, signed.

[Christopher Rufo]

And in certain cultures, like the Pacific Islander cultures, there's different cultural implications. But the reality is that more people would rather be, you know, petite, trim, low body fat than be 500 pounds. And I think that's what.

[Frank Rooney]

Maybe in your white world, but I.

[Bill Maher]

Mean, that's not everybody. No, it's true. Beauty is in the eye of the.

[Frank Rooney]

Beholder, but science is not. Science is not in the eye of the beholder. I mean, you just run up against facts. All right, let's move on. Top comics from the US Will perform at a festival in Saudi Arabia next month. I saw the poster. Wow. Some friends of mine. What does this suggest about how liberals view the country now? Yeah, I mean, some big names. I mean, Whitney Cummings is going over there. I think Bill Burr, Louis CK Are performing in Saudi Arabia. Wow. I mean, who's going? Is my question.

[Christopher Rufo]

It seems high risk. It seems like the thing that might add in a public beheading if you say the wrong thing.

[Panelist/Guest]

So I don't think I would keep.

[Christopher Rufo]

The jokes right within the lines.

[Frank Rooney]

Yeah.

[Panelist/Guest]

I don't think this is about politics and how they see Saudi Arabia. I think this is about this.

[Frank Rooney]

Oh, it is. Yeah.

[Panelist/Guest]

How much are they being paid?

[Frank Rooney]

Saudi Arabia knows how to bribe. They did it with sports, now they're doing it with comedy. Yeah. Wow.

[Panelist/Guest]

Political Principles tend to go out of the. Out the window when there's enough money on the table.

[Frank Rooney]

Maybe Colbert get a job over there. Andrew, is pot worse than alcohol? Oh, what a good basic question. I mean, I think we're maybe not on the same page with that. I think your view is proceed with caution. And mine is I'm high right now. But of course alcohol's worse than pot.

[Andrew Huberman]

Alcohol's worse than pot.

[Frank Rooney]

Everything, right? Yeah, basically worse than everything. Yeah.

[Andrew Huberman]

Zero alcohol is better than any.

[Frank Rooney]

Right.

[Andrew Huberman]

Two drinks maximum for an adult non alcoholic per week. It's kind of the upper threshold weakness per week.

[Bill Maher]

Week.

[Andrew Huberman]

What you can do without starting to increase your risk for cancer. Increase your, you know, about 5% of all business week.

[Bill Maher]

Talking about five business days or we. Wow.

[Frank Rooney]

Thank you.

[Andrew Huberman]

Drinking's at an all time low and I think it's because people realize that, yes, it helps you fall asleep, but your sleep is super lousy. It messes up your gut microbiome. I'm not a teetotaler. I really think that people should do as they wish, but know what they're doing. But in terms of increasing your risk of cancer, especially for women and breast cancer, it's unequivocal. And there's yet another study this week that shows that even moderate drinking is bad. If you enjoy drinking, just limit it and do a bunch of other things like get your morning sunlight, get your exercise, eat well to offset the damage you're doing.

[Frank Rooney]

How many drinks do you have a day?

[Panelist/Guest]

Apparently way too many.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, you're allowed to enjoy life, but it'll be a shorter one.

[Panelist/Guest]

I love you for the information, but you're depressing the hell out of me.

[Bill Maher]

Many others.

[Frank Rooney]

Yeah. What about hypothetically asking for a friend? What about someone who, like, I don't drink a lot now, but like in the past, because I feel like the human body really is amazingly resilient the way you can do things in your past and then once you stop doing them, you're pretty good, no?

[Andrew Huberman]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, good. Moving on.

[Andrew Huberman]

What does it say? Every sinner has a future. Every saint has a past.

[Frank Rooney]

But I mean, if that's true, then why not? I feel like I always, like, you know, did as much as my body would allow me to when my body let me have 25 drinks a week.

[Andrew Huberman]

I did much different impact in your 20s and 30s, right? In part because of the way that sleep becomes more and more important for maintaining brain function and bodily function. And I will say that with cannabis, people are very concerned about the elevated levels of thc it is a concern for people with a predisposition to psychosis. But you might enjoy this fact. It turns out an expert on my podcast, Expert in Cannabis, who told me that the data point to the fact that if people smoke or vape cannabis, not something I'm suggesting they do, people are pretty good at bringing themselves into the right plane of high. The panics and the psychotic episodes that people experience and take them to the ER is because of these edibles where they eat inedible, and then suddenly they're twice the desired plane of high, as it's called. So edibles are as much of a problem in that way as the high THC levels?

[Frank Rooney]

No, I don't need it anymore. It's too much of a commitment.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Andrew Huberman]

That's exactly what it is.

[Bill Maher]

No, it is. Yeah.

[Christopher Rufo]

Six hours later, you can't find.

[Frank Rooney]

I mean, it's like, you know, it tells me when I'm not high anymore, and I want to tell it. Okay, Frank, as a former food critic for the New York Times, do you think Trump's immigran immigration crackdown will make food in America less interesting?

[Panelist/Guest]

I have no idea. I'm going to come up with something for you there. I don't know.

[Frank Rooney]

Yeah, I don't know what that means. What are the panel's thoughts on the FBI searching John Bolton's home this morning? Is it further evidence that the agency has been politicized? Well, I mean, you know, Trump's comment was, I didn't know about it. I had nothing to do with it. And then he said something like, you know, I might ask for it, but I just think this is better. It's not a matter of thinking it's better. The President is not supposed to do things like that. He's not supposed to be involved with that. He thinks he's doing us a favor. Plus, I don't even believe it. I mean, even if he didn't specifically say to Pam Bondi, look into. Exactly.

[Panelist/Guest]

I mean, they know what they're supposed to do.

[Frank Rooney]

They know what they're supposed to do.

[Panelist/Guest]

They know what pleases him.

[Frank Rooney]

Yes, that's right.

[Christopher Rufo]

I'll take the other side. I think it's a good thing. And let me explain why, because, look, you look at basic game theory. When president. Remember this. When President Trump ran for office the first time, his big chant at the rally was, lock her up. I was a little bit like this. Seems a little extreme. Not sure how I feel about this, but after he won, he said something very interesting. He said that was A campaign thing. Hillary's fine. We're going to all move on. And he didn't actually seek to prosecute his political opponents. But now, over the last 10 years, we've had Russiagate, we've had investigations, we've had indictments, we've had arrests, we've had the mugshot. We'd have a bullet through his ear. We had him stripped.

[Bill Maher]

I don't think we could. What is the bullet through his ear?

[Frank Rooney]

The bullet, I don't think is something we can blame on the Democratic Party. All right, okay.

[Bill Maher]

Even shot.

[Panelist/Guest]

There'S no point of connection between the bullet in his ear and what happened at John Bolton's house this morning.

[Christopher Rufo]

Let me get there. I'm warming up to this, guys. Come on. So, okay, let's take the bullet out. For sake of argument, you have him stripped of his ability to actually do business in New York. I mean, he was the most persecuted political figure in American history. And the idea is, if you get into office and you do nothing, you're sending a signal to Democrats that Republicans will never fight back. There's no downside consequence. You can knock out a Republican just like they did with Nixon anytime they want. Tit for tat is a way to recalibrate the system to get back to parity. And over time, if people play it intelligently, I think you get actually healthier political system. And last point, John Bolton, very smart person to start with, because everybody hates John Bolton. Conservatives, Republicans.

[Panelist/Guest]

When did that become part of a criminal case? Everybody hates this person.

[Bill Maher]

And by the way, by the way, you're saying not to take a fight.

[Panelist/Guest]

For you, but you're saying they did it to Nixon. Nixon. Are you now saying that Nixon did nothing wrong and was wrongly pursued?

[Christopher Rufo]

Yeah. No. I think if you look at the history of Watergate, you see that it was a setup from start to finish. You know, four of the five Watergate burglars. Listen, four of the five Watergate burglars were connected with the CIA, were connected with the FBI. You had the judge, Judge Sirica, who had backdoor meetings, violating the law, out to get Nixon. And I think. And this will be an unpopular opinion at this table, maybe with this audience, but in time, I think we're going to see Nixon vindicated and the history around Nixon will be changed.

[Panelist/Guest]

And the tapes and everything he said on the tapes. And was that a hoax?

[Christopher Rufo]

No, but look, Nixon had no one point. Was Nixon aware of the Watergate break in before it occurred? I'm sorry, was Nixon aware? Did he plan the Watergate Break in. Did he have knowledge of it prior to the break in?

[Panelist/Guest]

I don't know actually. I can't access. I don't know.

[Frank Rooney]

I mean that was a long time ago, but I mean he's.

[Panelist/Guest]

Was Nixon engaged in a cover up?

[Frank Rooney]

There was smoking guns on that tape. On the tapes there actually was. I don't remember if he actually said break into this specific place, but he definitely said we can get them. We can get them the money.

[Andrew Huberman]

You know.

[Bill Maher]

Absolutely. And the reason?

[Christopher Rufo]

Not true. He had no knowledge prior to the break in. His. His staff came and said, hey, we have this problem. He floated an idea that is a so called smoking gun, but never acted on it. This is where we are. Nixon vindication by 2035.

[Frank Rooney]

Okay.

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[Andrew Huberman]

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[Bill Maher]

Andrew.

[Frank Rooney]

What are you about drinking raw milk.

[Bill Maher]

This show covers all bases. That's what I love about.

[Frank Rooney]

No, I mean, I'm serious. Well, I don't drink milk, but. No, I don't drink milk either, but what about raw. See, again, one of those things. I stopped talking about these things because I'm just a comedian, so how could I know anything but pasteurization, which of course is a valuable thing, just like vaccines are a valuable thing, but they do kill the good bacteria. And we do want good bacteria. I mean, when People are drinking those probiotics. That's good bacteria. But from what I've read and from the people I've talked to, nobody really knows if those probiotics are doing anything. But if you have unpasteurized goat yogurt, I think that's doing something.

[Andrew Huberman]

Do you eat raw milk products?

[Frank Rooney]

Not milk. Goat.

[Andrew Huberman]

Goat. A lot of people that are lactose intolerant can handle goat dairy.

[Frank Rooney]

It's a different molecule.

[Andrew Huberman]

Yeah, right. The gut microbiome. So these trillions of little bacteria. Sounds pretty gross. That live in all of us are essential for mental health and physical health at every level. This is one of the most important discoveries of the last 20 years.

[Frank Rooney]

Is that where our immune system is.

[Andrew Huberman]

It signals to our immune system all over our body. But a lot of things are made by those bacteria. What are called short chain fatty acids, the signaling for serotonin production in your brain. All that stuff originates in the gut and it's counterintuitive. It goes back to our earlier discussion about mind body connection. You would think, oh, you know how I feel. Everything about that is above the neck. No, the body is signaling the brain. The brain is signaling the body. The best way to support your gut microbiome is to ingest enough fiber vegetables and fruits, but also if you can, to ingest some low sugar fermented foods. People immediately say beer. No, not beer. That's not a low sugar fermented food. Things like sauerkraut, kimchi. So sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha is great. Some have a little bit of alcohol. Just mindful of that for kids. Raw milk products. Yes. Can support the gut microbiome. The sourcing and the handling of those raw milk products is very important because if you allow a lot of bacteria to flourish, you do introduce the risk of contamination. And there have been some instances where kids and adults have gotten pretty sick from raw milk products. However, if they're handled well, a lot of these raw milk products are quite good for the gut microbiome.

[Frank Rooney]

I'm not going to recommend anybody. You do you. I'm just going to throw this into the. The mix on this. Most people have had antibiotics, right? Some people have had a lot of them. What do antibiotics do? They kill the good bacteria.

[Andrew Huberman]

They kill all as many bacteria as they possibly kill.

[Frank Rooney]

Including the good bacteria.

[Andrew Huberman]

Including the good bacteria.

[Frank Rooney]

And that's why something like unpasteurized, again, not recommending to me is valuable.

[Andrew Huberman]

Yeah, sure.

[Frank Rooney]

Because you have to replace those good bacteria. Because again, when we're hungry, we're not really hungry. It's all those trillion things wanting to be fed, is it not?

[Andrew Huberman]

That's right. A lot of our hunger mechanisms arise in the gut when you eat sugar, sugary foods, independent of the taste of those sugary foods. Those sugary foods act on cells in your gut that communicate with the dopamine system of your brain, the desire centers in your brain, and cause you to want to eat more. Try this the next time you eat something that's kind of bad, or you have a scoop of ice cream or something, or you have a piece of chocolate, delicious chocolate. One of the first subjective experiences you have is more, I want more. Not, oh, I'm relishing in the taste of it. So low sugar fermented foods are the best way to go. If you are confident in the sources of your raw, unpasteurized dairy. Okay. There is some risk there, but okay. And yes, if you're taking antibiotics, that's why they tell you to take some quality Greek yogurt, Bulgarian yogurt, but it's.

[Frank Rooney]

Also because you're relishing in the taste of it. I mean, that's right.

[Andrew Huberman]

Taste is a big factor.

[Frank Rooney]

I don't normally eat sugar, but occasionally if I'm at a restaurant and somebody orders a shirt and I have a bite of it, I'm like, oh my fucking God.

[Bill Maher]

That's right. I see what the, I see what the temptation is.

[Andrew Huberman]

Listen, from the time we're born, we have an innate, a hardwired system for seeking sugar.

[Frank Rooney]

It's just delicious.

[Andrew Huberman]

But you approach it like an adult. Like you're not eating like a child all day long eating pastries and cookies. Most adults in the United States eat like children. And most children, unfortunately are eating very poorly. High sugar, high carbohydrate and sugar combinations. You know, if you, if we look to Europe, for instance, they eat desserts, right? On average. Traditionally they've been healthier, at least better BMI, thinner, you know, etc. The reason is they eat desserts for dessert. They're not eating it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. You know, hamburger buns, hot dog buns here. Most of the breads in the United States carry a lot more sugar. And so, you know, these so called hidden sugars. It's, it's not that sugar is poison. It's the volume of sugar that we're eating and that we're not even aware that we're eating.

[Frank Rooney]

You know who had too much sugar? Nixon.

[Bill Maher]

Thank you very much. We gotta go.

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