Overtime – Episode #705: Kaitlan Collins, Steven Pinker, Stephen Moore

Summary

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Real Time with Bill Maher: Overtime – Episode #705

Guests: Kaitlan Collins, Steven Pinker, Stephen Moore
Date: September 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this Overtime segment, Bill Maher hosts a lively discussion with Steve Moore (former Trump economic advisor), Kaitlan Collins (CNN Chief White House Correspondent), and Steven Pinker (Harvard professor and author). The conversation ranges from viral rumors about Trump’s mortality, wealth and the ethics of billionaires, US foreign policy, standards in higher education, to football culture in America. Throughout, Maher maintains a blend of humor and skepticism, prompting guests to respond candidly to current controversies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rumors of Trump’s Death and the Spread of Misinformation

• [01:02–02:14]:
  • Maher opens by referencing the recent online rumor that Trump had died, highlighting society’s fixation on the former president.
    • Maher: “To me, it just shows how much he's in our heads, that when he doesn't appear for a day, we're like, he must be dead for a minute.”
  • Kaitlan Collins comments on the widespread nature of the rumor, regardless of its outlandishness.
    • Collins [01:47]: “I had people who I think have a pretty tight grasp on reality asking me if this was true last weekend, if he had actually died.”
  • Steve Moore is incredulous, given Trump’s constant media presence.
  • Pinker links this to social dynamics and rumor psychology, recalling past celebrity death hoaxes (the "Paul McCartney is dead" phenomenon).
    • Pinker [02:31]: “It's true that we are sensitive to what other people believe. So there can be a kind of self-reinforcing dynamic to rumors.”

2. Wealth, Billionaires, and Elon Musk’s Potential Trillionaire Status

• [03:08–06:22]:
  • Maher muses on the idea of Musk becoming the world’s first trillionaire, positing whether there should be limits to personal wealth.
    • Maher [03:38]: "I also think there has to be limits to everything. I mean, this is again what I'm talking about. Nothing ever lands in the middle."
  • Steve Moore champions capitalism, arguing against wealth caps.
    • Moore [03:31]: “Is this a great country or what? You can become a trillionaire. I mean, where else on the planet?”
    • He contends, “My point is it's his money. He should be able to do with it what he wants in general.” [05:17]
  • Maher brings up Rockefeller and antitrust as historical precedent for limits.
  • Pinker questions the effectiveness of philanthropy by billionaires versus contributions toward global health.
    • Pinker [05:42]: "I haven't seen him distribute anti-HIV drugs, malaria drugs, education for girls. Bill Gates has given away a lot of money... Elon Musk will probably cost 20 million lives from the cuts he's made on USAID when he was head of doge."
  • Moore and Pinker debate USAID’s track record and the impact of foreign aid.
    • Moore [06:07]: “That's the most corrupt foreign agency ever. Show me anywhere where USAID has had a positive effect…”

3. U.S.–Venezuela Relations and the “War on Drugs”

• [06:22–07:17]:
  • Maher references recent military actions (blowing up a suspected drug boat) and questions U.S. target selection in anti-drug operations.
    • Maher [06:48]: “Venezuela is not the place. I mean, they do have gangs... But Venezuela is not one of the drug countries that if we really want to stop drugs, that's... Venezuela is not the place.”
  • Collins points to the lack of transparency and legal justification in U.S. actions.
    • Collins [07:00]: “There's questions about the legal authority and justification for just blowing up a boat... we haven't seen the evidence. They haven't presented that publicly...”

4. Football, Safety Culture, and Weather Delays

• [09:06–09:53]:
  • Audience question about rain delays in football prompts commentary on "safetyism."
    • Maher [09:14]: “This is safetyism. This is a part of the health discussion we were having. I think that everybody has to be safe completely, at all times...”
  • Steve Moore and Bill Maher bemoan dome stadiums and praise playing in tough weather.
    • Moore [09:38]: “Can I tell you what else I hate? No more building dome stadiums. Football should be played outside.”
    • Maher [09:44]: “Yes? Yeah, I agree. Baseball.”

5. College Standards, Grade Inflation, and Student Work Ethic

• [10:02–13:24]:
  • Maher asks Pinker about declining educational standards and reading habits.
  • Pinker describes a steady drop in student performance, revealing grade inflation at Harvard.
    • Pinker [10:30]: “They have declined. And I can see it in my own class, which I've taught for 22 years... performance has been going down... 10 percentage points from 2004 to now.”
  • Pinker discusses new institutional policies: prioritizing academics, allowing attendance-taking, and banning electronics in class for better memory retention.
    • Pinker [11:37]: “She [the dean] said that it's okay for professors to take attendance in lectures, which I'm going to start doing, that it's okay to ban electronic devices, which I might start doing.”
    • Pinker [12:47]: “When you have to think hard about something, when you've got to process its meaning, when it's not just a bunch of words, then you actually remember better.”
  • Collins affirms the value of handwriting in interviews and work.
    • Collins [13:24]: “When I'm interviewing someone, I'll write the questions... then when I'm interviewing them, I don't have to look at anything and I can remember...”

6. Space Force Relocation and Alabama

• [13:55–15:07]:
  • Maher references Trump moving Space Force from Colorado to Alabama, hinting at political motivations.
    • Maher [14:01]: “…Trump just moved Space Force from Colorado to Huntsville to Alabama for no good reason because he was mad at Colorado for having mail in voting.”
  • Collins explains the political and economic debates in Alabama over the move, estimating job impact.
    • Collins [14:33]: “They said they did all these studies where it would be better. It's going to be in Alabama. There's a real question of how many jobs it's going to bring to the state.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Maher [01:02]: “...when he doesn’t appear for a day, we’re like, he must be dead...”
• Collins [01:47]: “I had people who I think have a pretty tight grasp on reality asking me if this was true last weekend, if he had actually died.”
• Pinker [02:31]: “There can be a kind of self-reinforcing dynamic to rumors.”
• Moore [03:31]: “Is this a great country or what? You can become a trillionaire.”
• Maher [03:38]: “There has to be limits to everything.”
• Pinker [05:42]: “I haven't seen [Musk] distribute anti-HIV drugs... Bill Gates has given away a lot of money. He's saved probably 100 million lives. Elon Musk will probably cost 20 million lives from the cuts he’s made on USAID...”
• Moore [06:07]: “That's the most corrupt foreign agency ever. Show me anywhere where USAID has had a positive effect...”
• Maher [09:14]: “This is safetyism. I think that everybody has to be safe completely, at all times.”
• Pinker [10:30]: "They have declined. And I can see it in my own class… performance has been going down…”
• Pinker [12:47]: “When you have to think hard about something... then you actually remember better.”
• Collins [13:24]: “When I'm interviewing someone, I'll write the questions... then when I'm interviewing them, I don't have to look at anything and I can remember…”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:02 – Rumors about Trump’s death and social psychology of misinformation
• 03:08 – Elon Musk, billionaire wealth, and philanthropy debate
• 06:22 – US foreign policy: Venezuela and anti-drug actions
• 09:06 – Rain delays in football and “safetyism” in sports
• 10:02 – College standards, grade inflation, and pedagogical reforms
• 13:55 – Trump’s Space Force move and Alabama politics

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Tone & Style

The tone is witty, irreverent, and conversational, with Bill Maher’s signature skepticism and the guests engaging in lively, good-natured debate.

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This summary captures the essence and depth of the Overtime discussion, helping listeners grasp major topics, positions, and memorable exchanges without needing to listen to the entire episode.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Steve Moore]

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[Bill Maher]

All right, here we are with Trump's former economic advisor whose latest book is the Trump Economic Miracle, Steve Moore. She is CNN's chief White House correspondent and anchor of the Source with Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan Collins, and he's a professor and author of When Everyone Knows that Everyone Knows. Steven Pinker. Okay, first question is for you, Professor. What did you make of how the rumor that Trump was dead spread around the. I guess this is apropos to your theme of the book, whatever. But this was just a rumor. I mean, you should answer this too, because this is your beat in Washington. There was a rumor that Trump, because to me, it just shows how much he's in our heads, that when he doesn't appear for a day, we're like, he must be dead for a minute.

[Kaitlan Collins]

I mean, you know, what was crazy about that was sometimes there are these rumors that, you know, appear online and proliferate. This was pretty widespread. Like, I had people who I think have a pretty tight grasp on reality asking me if this was true last weekend, if he had actually died.

[Steve Moore]

And how does that even happen? He's on TV every single hour, every single day.

[Kaitlan Collins]

He hadn't been in public, actually, it was the longest stretch. He had not been in front of.

[Steve Moore]

The camera, so he must be dead.

[Kaitlan Collins]

It was the longest stretch. He had not been in front of the camera since taking office, though we did see him golfing over the weekend. But. Yeah, but I mean, he got asked about it and seemed surprised by it. Even though he did tweet in all caps. He was better than he's ever been on Sunday, which I think he did get word of what was happening.

[Bill Maher]

But is this apropos to what we were talking about in any way?

[Steven Pinker]

It's a stretch because it's not that everyone knows something that is actually true, but it's true that we are sensitive to what other people believe. So there can be a kind of self reinforcing dynamic to rumors. I'm old enough to remember when Paul McCartney was.

[Steve Moore]

Yes, right, exactly right, yes. Is he strong?

[Kaitlan Collins]

No, I saw him in New York the other night.

[Steve Moore]

How cool is that?

[Steven Pinker]

What? Was his death greatly exaggerated?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I remember that. Yes, there was a they. And if you played the record backwards, you could hear Paul is dead. Miss him? And it was just.

[Steven Pinker]

And you know, he was the one.

[Steve Moore]

Who was walking barefoot on the road.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, that was all. Okay, kids, Google it. Steve, what do you make of Elon Musk potentially becoming the world's first trillionaire God as part of his new compensation deal with Tesla? Isn't that excess, well, excessive?

[Steve Moore]

Is this a great country or what? You can become a trillionaire. I mean, where else on the planet I'm in favor of people making money?

[Bill Maher]

I am too. I also think there has to be limits to everything. I mean, this is again what I'm talking about. Nothing ever lands in the middle. Mondame, running for mayor in New York, probably going to be the mayor. He said there shouldn't be such a thing as a billionaire, not a trillionaire. He says there shouldn't be such a thing as a billionaire.

[Steven Pinker]

But Bill, you know what?

[Bill Maher]

Now a trillionaire.

[Steve Moore]

Yeah, but here's what Elon Musk would say, you know, and this, this is something people should think about. He say, like, if, if am I going to give, you know, billions and billions of dollars to the government. Who do you think can spend that money better? A guy like him who's built incredible businesses or the government that bucks everything up?

[Bill Maher]

Oh, wait, I thought the guy you like is the head of the government. I'm confused about what side we're on, Steve. Okay, but. So there should never be any cap, because there's certainly. But when J.D. rockefeller, the founding father of the Rockefeller dynasty, at some point was worth 2% of the GDP, and then they made antitrust laws. They said that that's a little too much for one person to control. I think they were right 100 years ago. And I think a trillionaire, I mean.

[Steve Moore]

Well, he's not going to be a trillionaire, but it's basically.

[Kaitlan Collins]

They've given him a lot of homework to actually get there. It's going to be difficult, I think, to do. It's like double the.

[Bill Maher]

But even, even the money he has now, I read, I don't remember the exact statistics I was reading, but it was something like it would take you x thousands of years if you spent a million dollars a day.

[Steve Moore]

He's going to invest it in the economy. He has an incredible charity. My point is it's his money. He should be able to do with it what he wants in general.

[Bill Maher]

I agree. I just think. Where do you stand on this? Where's Harvard on this one?

[Steven Pinker]

The charity? Which charity?

[Kaitlan Collins]

Charity.

[Steven Pinker]

I haven't seen him distribute anti HIV drugs, malaria drugs, education for girls. Bill Gates has given away a lot of money. He's saved probably 100 million lives. Elon Musk will probably cost 20 million lives from the cuts he's made on USAID when he was head of doge.

[Bill Maher]

You mean usaid?

[Steve Moore]

That's the most corrupt foreign agency ever. Show me anywhere where USAID has had a positive effect on international aid. It just doesn't. It's just goes corrupt foreign leaders.

[Steven Pinker]

I mean, there is corruption. They have saved tens of millions of lives.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, for a panel. Are we heading toward a war with Venezuela over drug cartels? Well, as I said in the monologue, Venezuela is not really the place. I mean, they do have gangs. I mean, the one that I think he said had the drugs on the boat that we blew up, Trend Aragua, I thought that was George Clooney's tequila brand, quite frankly. But I mean, I'm glad we're getting rid of the gangs. But Venezuela is not one of the drug countries that if we really want to stop drugs, that's. Venezuela is not the place.

[Kaitlan Collins]

But also there's questions about the legal authority and justification for just blowing up a boat that's in the middle of the water that they allege was a drug boat. But you know, we haven't seen the evidence. They haven't presented that publicly or anything like that. And if this becomes a common practice, I mean, that would be a first.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, it seems odd that you would have a small boat with 11 people on it if you were smuggling drugs. I personally would leave more room for drugs.

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[Steven Pinker]

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[Bill Maher]

What is your opinion on the rain delay at yesterday's football game? Oh, don't get me started.

[Steve Moore]

It just should be played in the rain.

[Bill Maher]

I agree. This is safetyism. This is a part of the health discussion we were having. I think that everybody has to be safe completely, at all times. Football. That's the great thing about football. We play it whenever, wherever. There's no stopping it. And the crowd, oh, there could be lightning. Of course it's rain. There always could be lightning. They stop the game for an hour.

[Steve Moore]

Can I tell you what else I hate? No more building dome stadiums. Football should be played outside.

[Bill Maher]

Yes? Yeah, I agree. Baseball.

[Steve Moore]

Look, I'm a Chicagoan. We played in Wrigley. You know, in Wrigley Field and Soldiers field, when it's 10 degrees below zero?

[Kaitlan Collins]

Bill, I don't know about that one. When it's like Alabama and August and September and kickoff.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, but. But what about, you know, canceling the game for an hour because there could be lightning? I heard the please get to safety, get to safety like a meteor was heading for the stadium. What a bullshit. Professor, have standards for college students changed in recent years? Do they have trouble keeping up with the amount of reading that used to be required?

[Steven Pinker]

Yeah, the answer is yes. They have declined. And I can see it in my own class, which I've taught for 2, 20, 22 years. So we had a meeting with the dean at Harvard because of grade. Because grades keep getting higher and higher. The 80% of students get an A. The GPA is 3. The average GPA is 3.8 out of 4.

[Bill Maher]

And so grade inflation, they call it.

[Steven Pinker]

No, they don't call it grade compression. Oh, maybe our students are just getting better and better. So I knew this was malarkey, so I went. I actually had the data because I'm giving kind of the Same exam for 22 years and it's multiple choice, so it's objective. So it's a constant benchmark. And performance has been going down, at least in my class, 10 percentage points from 2004 to now. So the standards have been going down. Students do read less. They. I think they spend more time on extracurriculars than on classwork. And I just know that because I Scrolling. That's when they're in the room, they.

[Bill Maher]

Just tell you they're not going to read your book. Not because it's not great. It is. It's a book.

[Steven Pinker]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

You don't read books. I read a letter that a student wrote to the Crimson saying you can get out of this university without ever having fully read a whole book.

[Steven Pinker]

That might be true. Now I got to say, there are a lot of really brilliant, really studious Harvard students like intimidatingly smart, but there's also a lot for whom it's kind of a luxury cruise. And academics is just one of the activities. So our dean, to be fair, our dean has noticed and she has changed the guidelines going forward. She actually told students, you didn't think this would be a shock? Academics is your first priority. Now the fact is you have to say that. But this is kind of a radical new policy. She said that it's okay for professors to take attendance in lectures, which I'm going to start doing, that it's okay to ban electronic devices, which I might start doing. Because we actually know. We actually know that taking notes leads to. To better memory than using a screen. Just because when you. It's just a principle of cognitive psychology. When you have to think hard about something, when you've got to process its meaning, when it's not just a bunch of words, then you actually remember better.

[Bill Maher]

And when you just the process of writing puts it in your hundred percent. Yes. Yeah.

[Steven Pinker]

And so. But a lot of them have screens. There are electronic electronic note taking devices, but they're not as fluid and easy as the old fashioned pen and paper. So my teaching assistants are going to hate this because they're going to have to Schlep handouts to class every time. But I think you're slapping.

[Kaitlan Collins]

But can I say I totally agree with that because when I'm interviewing someone, I'll write the questions down that I've thought out at times because then when I'm interviewing them, I don't have to look at anything and I can remember when I was going to ask them, you know, 12 questions down or whatnot.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, but you're that girl in the class we were always cheating on. You are not true. You are.

[Kaitlan Collins]

I would do the University of Alabama. I struggled.

[Bill Maher]

Since you're from Alabama and so proud of it. Let me last question.

[Kaitlan Collins]

What's wrong with that?

[Bill Maher]

Well, nothing. I love Alabama. Are you from Alabama?

[Kaitlan Collins]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

There's nothing wrong with that.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Yes. Unfortunately, this football season, I am an Alabama fan.

[Bill Maher]

Nothing wrong. I'm the guy who talks to the whole country. I talked to the whole country. I got no enemies. We took it to the other guys. Okay. But Trump just moved Space Force from Colorado to Huntsville to Alabama for no good reason because he was mad at Colorado for having mail in voting. I've been to Huntsville. I've played Huntsville. It's great. It's where NASA is.

[Steve Moore]

The penalty might not fit the crime.

[Bill Maher]

What do you think of that?

[Kaitlan Collins]

I actually did a lot of this because when it was moved back to Colorado during Biden, the Biden administration, the Alabama lawmakers were furious over this. It was basically a huge debate. It depends on who you ask. They said they did all these studies where it would be better. It's going to be in Alabama. There's a real question of how many jobs it's going to bring to the state. You know, the administration said as many as 30,000 officials in Alabama have said 15 to 1600. But I think Alabama is an amazing place and I think everyone should live there, especially if you're a quarterback or a head football coach. And you would like to live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know about that, but I know they play football in the rain down there. Thank you very much.

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