Real Time with Bill Maher – Overtime Episode #706: Ben Shapiro, Tim Alberta

Date: September 16, 2025
Guests: Ben Shapiro (Daily Wire co-founder, author of "Lions and Scavengers"), Tim Alberta (Atlantic staff writer)

Episode Overview

This Overtime segment dives into the week’s most contentious headlines and philosophical debates. Bill Maher is joined by Ben Shapiro and Tim Alberta for a lively, sometimes combative, exchange on cancel culture, media ethics, 9/11’s enduring impact, the roots of Judeo-Christian morality, and the recent controversy involving Kamala Harris’s memoir about her role as Vice President. The tone is sharp, humorous, and sometimes openly skeptical, with plenty of memorable quips and pointed observations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tom Hanks’ Canceled West Point Award & Political Tribalism

[00:51 - 04:01]

• Context: West Point cancels a prestigious award for Tom Hanks; Trump brands Hanks as “woke and destructive.”

• Maher highlights Hanks’ distinguished filmography honoring the military (“Saving Private Ryan,” “Greyhound,” “From the Earth to the Moon”) and criticizes the party-line nature of the backlash:

  "Tom Hanks has done more for the positive portrayal of the American service member... Wait, Tom Hanks. Oh, we forgot he’s on the blue team. Fuck him."
  — Bill Maher [01:35]

• Shapiro calls the move “silly,” defending Hanks’ public record and contrasting it with worse actors’ behavior:

  “I’m not going to start removing prizes from people because…”
  — Ben Shapiro [03:43]

• SNL’s controversial MAGA sketch: Maher objects to a segment where Hanks’ MAGA character refuses to shake hands with a Black contestant, arguing it’s unhelpful and incendiary. Alberta defends the sketch’s intent as showing commonalities, not division.

  “Pretty volatile area to be saying that…to take it to that level. I just think it’s not helpful.”
  — Bill Maher [03:17]

2. CBS News Pledges No Edits on Face the Nation

[04:01 - 04:54]

• Prompted by Republican complaints, CBS will no longer edit interviews.

• Maher and Shapiro: Both surprisingly support this transparency, even if the motivation is politically motivated.

  “As someone who’s been edited, it’s a good result.”
  — Bill Maher [04:18]
  “Honestly, it’s a good result.”
  — Ben Shapiro [04:22]

• Alberta links this to a trust crisis: Only 15% of Americans trust television news (Gallup poll):

  “Any step you can take towards transparency, it's not going to hurt, right?”
  — Tim Alberta [04:48]

3. 9/11: Lessons, Iraq War, and the Collapse of Trust

[04:54 - 07:20]

• Maher frames 9/11 as a watershed: Many Americans are now “too young to remember,” but it was pivotal, and the U.S. mishandled the aftermath, especially invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

• Shapiro argues the U.S. wrongly projected Western values:

  “We have in the West a capacity to project our own values onto other countries and other people. That is just false.”
  — Ben Shapiro [05:49]

• Alberta connects 9/11 to decades of waning institutional trust, pointing to multiple disasters (Iraq, Katrina, financial crisis, COVID) as fuel for cynicism:

  “Americans have reached a conclusion that no one is looking out for them and that they can’t trust any of these people in charge. And I actually think that in some way we can trace a lot of that back to 9/11.”
  — Tim Alberta [07:02]

4. Ben Shapiro’s ‘Lions and Scavengers’ Concept

[08:48 - 13:00]

• Shapiro explains his book’s theory:

  • Lions = builders (not tied to right/left politics); Scavengers = destroyers.
  • Trump has lion-like qualities (pragmatism), but isn’t exclusively a lion.

• Maher asks about Nietzschean and Ayn Rand influences; Shapiro says he quotes them critically, but acknowledges overlap:

  “There are people who are more creative and [who] ought to be rewarded, and the people who tear things down ought to be not rewarded. But I think that’s also baseline morality.”
  — Ben Shapiro [11:28]

• Discussion turns to Christianity as a ‘religion of losers’ (Nietzsche):

  • Shapiro refutes Nietzsche’s critique, arguing virtue should yield positive results in life.

5. The Origins of Morality: Religion, Enlightenment, and Secular Values

[13:00 - 15:56]

• Maher: “We got that morality from the Enlightenment, which was an anti-religious movement. The Founding Fathers, they weren’t religious people, they were deists…” [13:31]

• Shapiro counters:

  • Our shared Western morality is rooted in “several thousand years of biblical history.”

  • Enlightenment values "grew from the soil" of biblical tradition:

    “You were born morally on third base.”
    — Ben Shapiro [13:29]

• Tim Alberta notes Christianity’s moral turning point in the West:

  “Much of what we would consider to be good moral ethical behavior was not in fact a commonplace or mainstream thing several centuries ago.”
  — Tim Alberta [14:24]

• Debate on whether secular morality is self-sustaining: Shapiro claims:

  “It does not systemically maintain, if there’s no actual outgrowth from a basis of belief, that this is fundamentally demanded of you by a higher power.”
  — Ben Shapiro [14:37]

• Maher objects to literalism of biblical morality:

  • Cites Bible’s acceptance of slavery, sexist laws.

  • Colorful analogy:

    “It’s like saying, ‘Well, jump in the pool, there’s only one turd in there.’”
    — Bill Maher [15:27]

• Shapiro: Religious morality is an “admixture of human reason and...faith-based principles.”

6. Kamala Harris’s Memoir: Harris, Biden, and Leadership Accountability

[16:56 - 19:31]

• Maher: Harris’s memoir reveals she deferred to the Bidens on his re-election bid, now calling that “reckless.”

• Shapiro sharply critiques Harris:

  “What if there was an amendment to the Constitution, say like the 25th Amendment, that allowed the vice president… to recognize the president was brain dead and actually do something about it? And what if you then just sat there and did nothing…?”
  — Ben Shapiro [17:49]

• Maher disputes Biden’s supposed incapacity:

  “In the quiet of the Oval Office, [Biden] had not lost his marbles and was still able to make decisions among his staff.”
  — Bill Maher [18:16]

• Alberta: Criticizes Harris (and Pence) for pretending to lack agency during decisive moments:

  “She writes this as though she was some backbench, low level staffer without agency…You were the Vice President of the United States. If it was reckless for him to do this, Madam Vice President, did you not have a responsibility to the country to say something about it?”
  — Tim Alberta [19:05]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bill Maher: “Wait, Tom Hanks. Oh, we forgot he’s on the blue team. Fuck him.” [01:35]
• Ben Shapiro: “You were born morally on third base.” [13:29]
• Tim Alberta: “Americans have reached a conclusion that no one is looking out for them and that they can’t trust any of these people in charge.” [07:02]
• Maher (on Bible morality): “It’s like saying, ‘Well, jump in the pool, there’s only one turd in there.’” [15:27]
• Shapiro (on Harris and the 25th Amendment): “What if…you then just sat there and did nothing until Joe Biden had his head cave in, basically on national television in a debate with Donald Trump and stare into the great maw of death off screen with a frozen grimace.” [17:49]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time | |--------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Tom Hanks, West Point & Cancel Culture | 00:51-04:01| | CBS News Editing Policy & Media Trust | 04:01-04:54| | Reflecting on 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Institutional Trust| 04:54-07:20| | “Lions and Scavengers” Theory & Trump | 08:48-13:00| | Morality: Religion vs. Enlightenment | 13:00-15:56| | Kamala Harris’s Book, Biden, & Accountability | 16:56-19:31|

Tone & Style

The conversation is frank, often sarcastic, and steeped in the combative wit characteristic of Real Time. While the three often disagree, the exchanges are substantive, with Maher poking holes, Shapiro responding with rapid-fire logic and analogies, and Alberta providing measured historical and cultural context.

This episode is a must-listen for those interested in the intersection of politics, philosophy, media, and the changing moral fabric of American society.