Overtime – Episode #715: Killer Mike, Donna Brazile

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher – Overtime #715: Killer Mike, Donna Brazile

Date: November 25, 2025
Guests: Killer Mike (musician, activist), Donna Brazile (ABC News contributor, former DNC chair)
Host: Bill Maher

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Episode Theme & Overview

In this Overtime segment, Bill Maher, Killer Mike, and Donna Brazile dive into the increasing politicization of the American military, education deficits regarding civics, the legacy of foreign intervention (Libya, Haiti), shifting gender relations and marriage trends among young Americans, and finally, the lighter topic of favorite Thanksgiving dishes. The discussion is dynamic, at times provocative, and always candid, reflecting the original tone of Real Time—blunt, humorous, and unfiltered.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Politicization of the Military and Following Orders

[01:26–05:35]

• Trump’s Threats: The episode opens with the panel discussing Donald Trump’s recent threats against ABC’s license and lawmakers with military backgrounds encouraging personnel to question unlawful orders, particularly regarding Venezuela.
  • Maher expresses unease about politicians telling the military to defy orders (01:51).
  • Donna Brazile points out that the military oath includes following only legal and lawful orders—but highlights the dangers lawmakers now face, including death threats (02:24).
• Soldiers’ Responsibility:
  • Killer Mike raises concerns about under-education and believes an uninformed public—across racial and class lines—makes the military vulnerable to politicization. He argues for soldiers to strictly adhere to the Constitution, not unlawful orders, referencing civics education failings (03:36–05:47):
    • “There’s a goal in public schools to make sure Americans are dumb.… The average working class American is dumb.” – Killer Mike [03:36–03:53]
    • “I would rather our soldiers be strictly adherent to the United States Constitution and not following the order that’s unconstitutional.” – Killer Mike [05:13–05:32]
  • Maher argues it’s unrealistic to expect young soldiers to make constitutional judgments, given the current education system (05:35–05:49).

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2. Foreign Policy, The Libya Intervention, and Haiti

[06:02–09:26]

• Libya & Obama:
  • Killer Mike candidly critiques Obama’s role in the Libya intervention, noting that “slavery returned to Libya,” and that Gaddafi, while not perfect, was a symbol of potential African unification (06:03–06:35):
    • “As a black person, I saw slavery return to Libya.… If I ever had the chance to talk to Obama, I’d really say so.” – Killer Mike [06:03–06:35]
  • Maher points out Gaddafi’s repressiveness, but Killer Mike uses the moment to highlight that repressive leaders exist everywhere, drawing comparisons to U.S. policies (07:01–07:13).
• France, Haiti, and Colonial Legacies:
  • Killer Mike and Maher debate whether France continues to benefit from Haiti, with Killer Mike reminding the audience of Haiti’s long-standing punishment for its anti-colonial rebellion and arguing for reparations (07:39–09:20):
    • “Haiti has been punished since 1806… To end colonization, it’s going to take some form of violence.…” – Killer Mike [07:58–08:20]
    • Donna Brazile adds that Haiti is “falling apart,” and that the U.S. needs to do more to aid countries like Haiti (08:50–08:53).
  • Bill Maher contends that at some point, countries must focus on future improvements, not past injustices (09:20–09:26).

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3. Trust and Role of Institutions

[09:35–10:02]

• Donna Brazile emphasizes that the military remains among the most trusted U.S. institutions, contrasting it with Congress and the church (09:35–10:00). She notes her pride as a daughter of a veteran and insists on the military’s social importance.

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4. Shifts in Marriage Attitudes and Gender Relations

[11:48–15:36]

• Survey Discussion:
  • Bill Maher introduces stats showing a substantial decline in 12th-grade girls interested in marriage over the past 30 years.
  • Donna Brazile points out women no longer feel pressured to marry quickly and have more freedom to choose when and whom they marry (12:15–12:47).
• Gender Dynamics:
  • Killer Mike and Donna Brazile banter about traditional domestic roles, with Killer Mike crediting his wife’s capabilities and poking fun about wanting to be “like Stedman” (Oprah’s longtime partner) while supporting an empowered spouse (15:15–15:33).
  • Donna Brazile stakes a proud claim to doing her own chores and not needing a man’s help (15:02–15:09).
• Men’s Usefulness and Relationship Friction:
  • Maher laments the growing gulf between men and women, noting women’s disinterest in male perspectives (13:02–13:44).
  • Donna Brazile asserts women are “tired of taking your shit… we don’t want to feel responsible for picking up your shit, taking care of your shit, and then dealing with your shit drains.” [14:02–14:29]
  • Killer Mike rebuts that men still fulfill “guy shit”—yardwork, home repairs, and, humorously, being the one with a shotgun if the house is threatened (14:34–14:53).

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5. Thanksgiving Table Favorites

[15:39–16:53]

• Bill Maher closes by asking for favorite Thanksgiving dishes, leading to a lively exchange:
  • Donna Brazile celebrates her love for gumbo, dirty rice, and “stuffin’ mellotins” [15:53–16:16].
  • Killer Mike lists macaroni and cheese, family stuffing recipes, smoked turkey, and the “much better” marijuana he gets at Thanksgiving (16:39–16:53).
  • Maher jokes about Donna putting her “foot in it” (a Southern cooking compliment) and wraps the season on a light-hearted note.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Civic Education:
  “I think that there’s a goal in public schools to make Americans dumb.… To make sure the average working class American is dumb.” – Killer Mike [03:36–03:53]

• On Following Orders:
  “Once you say to the military, you get to decide as opposed to yes sir, no sir, follow orders—it’s a dangerous area.” – Bill Maher [03:27–03:36]

• On Obama and Libya:
  “He and Hillary Clinton disturbed a country called Libya… Now it’s not free anymore. And there are people who look like me that aren't free.… If I ever had a chance to talk to Obama, I’d really say so.” – Killer Mike [06:09–06:35]

• On Women & Relationships:
  “We don’t want your shit. We’re tired of it… You don’t have to feel responsible for picking up your shit, taking care of your shit, and then dealing with your shit drains. I’m tired of it.” – Donna Brazile [14:02–14:29]

• On Domestic Roles:
  “There is… what I think is that we have some use… We pick up heavy shit.” – Killer Mike [14:56–15:00]

• On Marriage Trends:
  “We are sort of at a point now where men and women just… don’t want anything to do with each other.” – Bill Maher [13:02–13:09]

• On Thanksgiving Food:
  “If you put some chicken gizzards after your trinity, man, you talking about bumpin’. You’ll be sitting on that couch saying, honey, whatever you want later, you got it. And it’s all healthy.” – Donna Brazile [16:14–16:28]

• On Partnership Aspirations:
  “You know who I like to be? Steadman… I want to be like Steadman. So, baby, if my wife out there, I want you to do well. I want you to make lots of money, baby. I’ll do the laundry… just take care of me like Steadman.” – Killer Mike [15:15–15:33]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Trump & Military Orders: 01:26–05:35
• Libya/Gaddafi Debate: 06:02–07:13
• France, Haiti, Reparations: 07:39–09:20
• Trust in Military & Institutions: 09:35–10:02
• Marriage & Gender Trends: 11:48–15:36
• Favorite Thanksgiving Dishes: 15:39–16:53

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Tone & Language

The conversation is sharp, irreverent, and occasionally confrontational, blending insightful critiques with humor and personal anecdotes, typical of Maher's panel and guests. The guests speak candidly: Killer Mike is particularly forthright and passionate; Donna Brazile combines warmth with pointed commentary; Maher leads with a skeptical but playful edge.

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For listeners seeking a thoughtful, uncensored, and sometimes surprising take on the week's political and cultural stories, this Overtime segment with Killer Mike and Donna Brazile delivers a blend of sharp analysis, historical perspective, and lively banter.

Transcript

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No way.

[Killer Mike]

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To an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

[Donna Brazile]

All right.

[Bill Maher]

He is an entrepreneur, podcast host and musician, best known as one half of Run to Jewels Killer Mike. I know, it's just like. And she's an ABC News contributor and former DNC chair. Donna Brazil.

[Donna Brazile]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Bill Maher]

Trump threatened to pull ABC's license this week.

[Donna Brazile]

I know. What the hell.

[Bill Maher]

See, this is what I'm talking about with Mel. About, like the things that bother me versus the things that don't. That bothers me. You see, the ballroom. I give a fuck. I don't care about the ballroom. I care about that. You just. I mean, like, it just. And also, like, did you see the thing about the six Democrats.

[Donna Brazile]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Who are all military service and intelligence work in their background, said, look, you don't have to follow orders. I don't know about that. Now. I understand what they mean because this thing with Venezuela is not legal. But what do you think about telling people in the armed services you don't have to follow orders. Now, Trump, of course, went ballistic and said George Washington would have hung them. Sedition, death. You know, he goes right to that. And then today he walked it back. I didn't mean death. You said death.

[Donna Brazile]

Yeah. And meanwhile, those lawmakers have to reach out to the US Capitol Police, the House sergeant in arms, because they're getting death threats because they're afraid. And look, Senator Markell, who's getting death threats. Those members, Melissa Slotkin, Mark Kelly, who's married to Gabby Gifford. I mean, to get death threats. He understands that. So it was wrong for Donald Trump to say that online of Course. Now here's the point. The military, there's a military rule that says you must follow legal, lawful orders. It's already in their military contract. They know what they take over.

[Bill Maher]

But who's to say what that is? Aren't the courts looking at that right now? And now you're going to say to 21 year olds on the USS Enterprise, you, you have to decide because there's.

[Donna Brazile]

An effort under the way to politicize our military. I understand. And government and our weaponizing.

[Bill Maher]

And the Justice Department.

[Donna Brazile]

And their point was don't give up the ship. You have, you've taken an oath. Don't give up the ship.

[Bill Maher]

Once you say to the military, you get to decide as opposed to yes sir, no sir, follow orders. It's a dangerous area.

[Killer Mike]

What about what we say in 9th grade civics class? The whole about the Bill of Rights in the United States Constitution that goes back to undereducating Americans, period. I think that there's a goal in public schools to make sure Americans are dumb. And I don't just mean Americans that look like me. To make sure the average working class American is dumb. The average social media.

[Bill Maher]

So that's a conspiracy.

[Killer Mike]

Yeah, I do. Because I think that the average working class.

[Bill Maher]

Well again that's the Democrats portfolio is education.

[Killer Mike]

I don't give a shit what side of the fence you on. Okay, great. It hasn't been good for America. I happen to believe in this republic. I think that as young as we are in 250 years we stand the greatest chance of being one of the greatest republics ever to have been formed on earth. But we are giving up too much. And part of what you give up is the adherence to the United States Constitution and the understanding that their constitution can transform, it can be amended, it can be grow. I personally think the 13th Amendment needs to be reamended so that we don't have an excuse for slavery, period. That ends the need for private and state prisons in the same way, but reduces the prison population from what used to be a half a million to over 2 million now. But I think that soldiers do have a responsibility to adhere to the constitution. I think if you're sent in on orders to disrupt a First amendment constitutionally protected thing, I think as a soldier you should say absolutely not. I'm not gonna do that.

[Donna Brazile]

And.

[Killer Mike]

Because we're just picking sides right now, and George Carlin said years ago, you know, it's a club and you ain't in it. What we're doing is picking members of the club who are going to fly on a jet together afterwards. Whether they're Democrat or Republican. They're buddy, buddy. They went to Harvard, they went to Yale, they went to Morehouse, they went to Howard together. They're still going to be friends after the bourgeoisie and up. That class is going to be okay. But we, the working class, the people got to wear shit like this to work every day. We're going to get fucked over in this. And people who wear shit like this every day usually do this and say, yes, sir and no, sir. So for me, I would rather our soldiers be strictly adherent to the United States Constitution and not following the order that's on Constitution.

[Donna Brazile]

Again.

[Bill Maher]

You'Re asking. I mean, the military is just different. I'm sorry, it is. You're asking kids who probably don't know anything about the Constitution to make that decision.

[Killer Mike]

We gotta fix that too, Bill. Like at a certain point.

[Bill Maher]

I know, but we haven't fixed it. But right now we need to bring.

[Killer Mike]

That fucking Schoolhouse Rock on Saturday. We gotta do something, brother. We can't just have an ignorant proletariat.

[Bill Maher]

I know, but like, you'd be okay if they did that with Obama. Cause he blew up.

[Donna Brazile]

I don't give a fuck.

[Bill Maher]

He blew up somebody.

[Killer Mike]

I was gonna hold this. I wasn't gonna talk about this, right? Ooh, we killed Gaddafi. We knocked him off the motherfucking shirt.

[Bill Maher]

Absolutely.

[Killer Mike]

You're like, absolutely. But as a black person, I saw slavery return to Libya. I saw a man who was willing to help black people in their plight, in their struggle by giving billions ignored. I saw someone who wanted to unite Africa under one currency and have a potentially United States of Africa. And I know how dangerous that is to Europe and United States. I saw that crush and. And as an American, I had to shut the fuck up, go with the republic. But that's something. If I ever had a chance to talk to Obama, I'd really say so.

[Bill Maher]

You see Gaddafi, good guy.

[Killer Mike]

I see Gaddafi has been not as bad as they said. But I can't see any president I have as a good guy. I love Obama. The symbol of Obama is up in my mother fucking house. He's a black man. He became president and he did more drone bombings than any other US President before him. He and Hillary Clinton disturbed a country called Libya in which you used to have a free house, free education, free. And now it's not free anymore. And there are people who look like me that aren't free. So as much as I love my.

[Bill Maher]

Republic, you know, he was a very Repressive dictator.

[Killer Mike]

I hear what you're saying. We're living under one now. We ain't storming the fucking way out.

[Bill Maher]

It was not, you know what Ice.

[Killer Mike]

Walking down American neighborhoods.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, if you think that's the same as Libya.

[Killer Mike]

I didn't say that same thing. I said suppress it.

[Bill Maher]

But let's have some perspective.

[Killer Mike]

All right, Let me go on before.

[Donna Brazile]

Y' all go smoke. I'm a fun. Yeah, I really like this.

[Bill Maher]

It's very easy to lose.

[Killer Mike]

And when the emails came out, the email said essentially we were doing it for the French. Like, how long do the French get to fucking live off Haiti, Libya, West Africa? How long before you got to ante up? What's in the Louvre?

[Bill Maher]

The French are still living off Haiti.

[Killer Mike]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Haitians fix it. Why can't they fix it then?

[Killer Mike]

Why can't Haitians fix it?

[Bill Maher]

The French? If the French are.

[Killer Mike]

So there's no interest in the country right now. France, Fanon, did you read Rich of the Earth? You dated enough black women to know this shit. You know that? I mean, you got to tell them at nightmare.

[Bill Maher]

French pulled out of haiti, like in 1806.

[Killer Mike]

No, when I'm saying. What I'm saying, though, is Haiti has been punished since 1806. Frederick Douglass wrote about this, too, for being an example that you can. Without colonizers. And to end colonization, it's going to take some form of violence. I think anyone who threatens colonies or the colonists are crushed. So whether Gaddafi would ultimately, in my eyes, good or bad, but better than what they have now.

[Bill Maher]

The people who have been repressing the people in Haiti for a very long time are not French.

[Killer Mike]

Shit me.

[Bill Maher]

There are other Haitians.

[Killer Mike]

There are Haitians that are put into place.

[Bill Maher]

Papa Doc, Duval, Yang, let's not act.

[Killer Mike]

Like we don't put dictators in the place.

[Narrator/Commercial Announcer]

Okay?

[Donna Brazile]

But they're.

[Bill Maher]

But they're not French.

[Killer Mike]

Can we help them cut the power?

[Bill Maher]

They're not French. They're not Americans. They are Haitians.

[Killer Mike]

So the benefit.

[Bill Maher]

They're Haitians.

[Killer Mike]

No benefits go to the French from Haiti anymore.

[Bill Maher]

Tell me what I'm not aware of.

[Killer Mike]

I'm just saying Haiti, tell me what's going on. As far as I know, Haiti's still sending money to France. That's all.

[Donna Brazile]

Haiti sending money, falling apart. That's what I know.

[Killer Mike]

Okay.

[Donna Brazile]

And we need to do more to help countries like Haiti especially.

[Killer Mike]

So what's to do more? I would say we need to reparate countries we've colonized. There's a payment to be made to help countries get. So we took Libya. What have we done to help their country become democratic and get back in a better state? What have we done to help Haiti do it? Haiti is the reason we got Louisiana and West today. America really owes Haiti. We kicked the French's ass so bad, it was like, fuck this, we'll sell New Orleans. Y' all have the Saints, y' all have Donald.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, you can, you can stay mad at the past forever, but at some point you gotta move forward and make things better in the future.

[Killer Mike]

I'm not saying I don't want to move forward. I'm just saying put something in my pocket for your socket. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, let me have something for my move forward. That's how we do it for other nations.

[Donna Brazile]

To get back to your original point, I mean, as a daughter of a veteran, I have to say this. And I love my veterans. I love the military. The military is the most trusted institution right now in American society. Sure, the media suck. Church, I mean, Congress is a popular. Yeah, the church. I mean, institutions. The church is different from our Lord. Okay, okay, but. But Congress.

[Bill Maher]

Your dog can pee on me tonight.

[REI Spokesperson]

You don't want.

[Bill Maher]

As long as we're going after the church. I'm all down.

[Killer Mike]

Y' all freaky. Well, if you can't, white woman told my wife this morning, man, your dog has the cutest butt I've ever seen. I said, you know them people freaky. Some wild shit going on, man.

[Donna Brazile]

Ooh, I don't want my dog to get.

[Bill Maher]

Let's go to the pet.

[Donna Brazile]

She might find. She like it.

[Bill Maher]

A new PP, man. A new survey.

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[Bill Maher]

A new survey found that the number of 12th grade girls interested in getting married someday has dropped 22 points over the last 30 years. Why do you think that is? Have men become less appealing? Yeah, hold on.

[Killer Mike]

Marriage. Period of marriage to men.

[Bill Maher]

Well, good point.

[Donna Brazile]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

It just says getting married. I think they are implying to men, but yes.

[Donna Brazile]

Well, I mean, we're no longer in the 1950s. Women can take their time in figuring out what they want and who they want and when they want. Hold on.

[Killer Mike]

Donna, Shayna, Shaina.

[Donna Brazile]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Killer Mike]

That's fine for y', all, but tell my wife it's time to go.

[Donna Brazile]

I don't want her on.

[Killer Mike]

Yeah, I don't want. I want my wife to still cook and rub my back at night. She does all the business in our house too, though. She runs things. Yeah, but I bet you she could be president.

[Donna Brazile]

But I bet you provide a lot of sustenance and support for your wife to get the things done.

[Sponsor Announcer]

I know.

[Donna Brazile]

Ain't no black woman gonna let your ass be a lady.

[Killer Mike]

You know what? Get your ass up.

[Donna Brazile]

Pick that up. I know. I know better. Mm. But it.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, we are sort of at a point now where the. The men and women just. They just have not. They just don't want anything to do with each other.

[Donna Brazile]

In a lot of ways.

[Killer Mike]

It's crazy.

[Bill Maher]

Well, no, really, like you look at, like who listens to what podcasts. It is very hard to get women to listen to my podcast. They just as like you're a man. We're just not going.

[Killer Mike]

A lot of guys listen to Mel, though.

[Bill Maher]

Of course, that's what the men listen to. The men. The women listen to men.

[Killer Mike]

No, no, male. The woman who you interviewed her.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, male.

[Killer Mike]

Yeah, we listen to men.

[Donna Brazile]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Well, that's a phenomenon. Yes, but I mean, in general, it is very hard to get women interested in anything men are saying these days. It's just that they just think that we're just a bunch of knuckle draggers. And they have a lot of evidence for that.

[Killer Mike]

Damn.

[Bill Maher]

And men are incels. And they're not engaging women in the way women would like. They need to be courted. They have not changed as much as we would like to think, or some people would like to think. Women are still the women. I remember As a youth. Okay. They still taking your shit?

[Donna Brazile]

We don't want your shit. We're tired of it. We're exhausted. I mean, we need it, though. No, of course you're needed. I mean, don't tell me. Cause you know, I can spell that out. Of course you're needed, but we're tired of taking your shit. We don't want to feel down all the time. You don't have to feel responsible for picking up your shit, taking care of your shit, and then dealing with your shit drains. I'm tired of it. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I think what this is saying is a woman would rather have nobody than someone who drains them.

[Donna Brazile]

Right? We want our.

[Killer Mike]

But guys add a lot of shit, too. Guys are changing the tires, guys are raking the yard. Guys are doing what they're supposed like guy shit. It may not come up on a daily basis. It may not be picking the kids up from school, doing the laundry every day, Right? But when the door gets kicked in at three in the morning, that motherfucker with a shotgun had better be a guy.

[Donna Brazile]

You know what I mean?

[Killer Mike]

Like, so I'm just. There is what I think is that.

[Bill Maher]

We have some use.

[Killer Mike]

Yeah, some use. You know what I mean? We pick up heavy shit.

[Bill Maher]

We have some use.

[Killer Mike]

But I would like.

[Donna Brazile]

But women can pick up heavy shit too. You know what?

[Killer Mike]

No.

[Donna Brazile]

I bring my own trash. I rake my own damn rig.

[Killer Mike]

For real?

[Donna Brazile]

Yeah. Have me a glass of wine and.

[Killer Mike]

I can do any damn thing.

[Donna Brazile]

You got it. No, no, no.

[Killer Mike]

You said cuss playing.

[Donna Brazile]

Shit.

[Killer Mike]

Listen, I'mma tell you the guy I admire. I want to. You know who I like to be?

[Donna Brazile]

Who? Steadman. Oh, damn.

[Killer Mike]

I see Stepman, Uncle Stepman. Being in Atlanta, opening in Atlanta. He just be chilling. I want to be like Stepman. So, baby, my wife out there. I want you to do well. I want you to make lots of money, baby. I'll do the laundry, I wash the dishes. Just take care of me like Stepman.

[Bill Maher]

Baby.

[Donna Brazile]

Look.

[Killer Mike]

Ain'T no calluses on me hands.

[Bill Maher]

Like stuff. The final question for the season. A simple one. No controversy here. Let's end on a harmonious note. Four panel, what is your favorite dish on the Thanksgiving table? We can't fight about that.

[Donna Brazile]

Gumbo. I love gumbo. Seafood gumbo. I love stuffing. I like to stuff mellotins. I like dirty rice. You ever had some dirty rice?

[Killer Mike]

I had some dirty rice, but it's not.

[Donna Brazile]

Ooh. See, you need a black excuse. I mean, well. And if you.

[Bill Maher]

Maybe someday it'll happen.

[Donna Brazile]

If you put some chicken gizzards. After your Trinity, man, you talking about bumping. You'll be sitting on that couch saying, honey, whatever you want later, you got it. And it's all healthy.

[Bill Maher]

And when you make this for me, you'll really put. Put your foot in it, baby.

[Donna Brazile]

I'm putting everything in it.

[Bill Maher]

All right.

[Killer Mike]

What's your favorite dish? My favorite is Shay's macaroni and cheese, my sister Lovey's stuffing, dos barbecue smokes, an incredible turkey, and the marijuana I usually get around Thanksgiving is much better.

[Bill Maher]

All right, great. End of our season. Thank you, guys.

[Donna Brazile]

Thank you.

[Bill Maher]

Thank you.

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