Overtime – Episode #721: Sen. Adam Schiff, Don Lemon, Annabelle Gurwitch

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher: Overtime – Episode #721

Guests: Sen. Adam Schiff, Don Lemon, Annabelle Gurwitch
Date: March 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of "Overtime," following Real Time with Bill Maher, Bill welcomes Sen. Adam Schiff (D-CA), journalist Don Lemon, and actress/author Annabelle Gurwitch. The panel tackles explosive new revelations from the Epstein files, the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of Trump’s prescription drug plan, the Democrats’ messaging struggles, wealth taxes, the controversy over potential new DHS Secretary Markwayne Mullin, and reflections on Jesse Jackson’s legacy after his recent funeral. The conversation ranges from darkly comic to deeply sobering, touching on the intersections of scandal, policy, social justice, and political strategy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epstein Files & Elites Accused (00:58–06:19)

• Recurring Revelations:
  The group discusses the continuing release of files related to Jeffrey Epstein and how the story refuses to die, likening the endless document dumps to the recurring McRib (00:27).

• Unsettling Details & Coverups:
  Annabelle Gurwitch shares shocking, unsubstantiated but disturbing details—including new allegations against Donald Trump by a woman who was 13 at the time (01:50).

  “I mean, it’s unsubstantiated. But it’s really shocking.” – Annabelle Gurwitch (02:21)

• From Dismissal to Alarm:
  One panelist admits having dismissed the Epstein conspiracy before coming to see its real significance:

  "I’ve just come around 360 to the idea that these are really important…" – Annabel Gurwitch (02:39)

• QAnon Reference & Elitism:
  Don Lemon notes, with dark irony, that for all the wildness of QAnon’s theories, the idea of an elite sex ring had some basis in fact:

  “I apologized to QAnon... when we were mocking you and saying, oh, these crazy conspiracy theorists, they think there’s some sort of pedophile ring of the elites around the world.” – Don Lemon (02:45)

• Systemic Obstruction:
  Adam Schiff critiques the Justice Department’s lack of transparency, describing the hoops Congress must jump through to access still-hidden files and their inability to use technology or make effective inquiries:

  “You can only bring a pen and pad… it’s obviously designed not to be an effective way to do oversight and find what’s in there.” – Adam Schiff (03:32)

• Surveillance on Inquiries:
  The Justice Department not only restricts access, but tracks exactly what members of Congress are searching for—“spying on members”—underscoring a climate of intimidation and cover-up (04:00–04:58).

• Failure to Investigate Powerful People:
  Despite significant allegations, those closest to Epstein remain untouched, especially Trump, even though foreign leaders elsewhere have lost posts over mere accusations:

  “No one is questioning him about this. Especially an allegation from a 13-year-old child. That’s serious shit.” – Annabel Gurwitch (05:46)

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2. Trump Rx – Prescription Drug Plan (06:19–09:40)

• Hostile Reactions:
  Annabelle Gurwitch (a cancer survivor) directly attacks Trump’s new proposal:

  “This is a crock of shit. This is a total bullshit non fix to real issues that we have.” – Annabelle Gurwitch (06:42)

• Comparison to Europe:
  She contrasts America’s fragmented health care system with Europe’s much more accessible cross-border care for patients, highlighting confusion and complexity in U.S. health insurance.

• Schiff Calls It a Scam:
  Adam Schiff summarizes TrumpRx as purely performative, providing no new discounts or savings:

  “Basically tries to give the facade, the impression that it’s reducing drug costs… looks like a marketing scam.” – Adam Schiff (08:13)

• Personal Anecdote:
  Schiff recalls a meeting with Trump in which the president feigned interest in drug price reform, but did nothing:

  “[Trump] made no serious effort. So I think this is a kind of a marketing idea designed to give the impression he’s trying to bring the cost of at least one thing down.” – Adam Schiff (09:13)

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3. Democratic Messaging and Election Prospects (09:42–11:18)

• The Mystery of Messaging:
  Don Lemon wonders why, despite ample ammunition, the Democrats’ messaging fails to break through:

  “It seems like… the ammunition that the Democrats have to fire is just… God, they’re just loaded. And then it doesn’t work. Why doesn’t this message land?” – Don Lemon (09:42)

• Schiff on Recent Wins:
  Schiff points to Democratic successes in recent elections, attributing gains to focus on economic issues:

  “The fact that we have been united on a message that centers around people's everyday cost of living… that is a big enough umbrella…” – Adam Schiff (10:12)

• 2024 Outlook:
  Lemon asserts Democrats will “kill it in November,” though Gurwitch cautions the election is still a long way off (11:09–11:18).

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4. Wealth Taxes & Economic Inequality (11:18–14:42)

• Proposals for Taxes on the Rich:
  Schiff explains his support for new taxes on unrealized capital gains and suggests he’s open to wealth taxes to address the income gap.

  “At the end of the day, we have to address this extraordinary income gap...” – Adam Schiff (12:28)

• California’s Dilemma:
  Don Lemon notes Gov. Gavin Newsom, despite being liberal, opposes such taxes for fear billionaires will leave and sink the tax base (13:15).

• Counterargument—They’ll Always Have Florida:
  Gurwitch and Lemon counter that at the national level, billionaires would have nowhere to go (13:56).

• Healthcare as a Billionaire’s Game:
  Gurwitch points to the health impacts of wealth inequality: a third of GoFundMes are for medical crises, and bankruptcy for health reasons is common.

  “…GoFundMe is not a medical insurance plan.” – Annabelle Gurwitch (14:49)

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5. Markwayne Mullin as Potential DHS Secretary (15:10–16:56)

• Comic Relief:
  Panelists riff on Markwayne Mullin’s name, likening it to a serial killer and mocking the trend of three names for infamous people (15:10–15:52).

• His Record & Temperament:
  Gurwitch and Schiff point out Markwayne’s history as an election denier and tendency toward combative behavior—hardly an endorsement:

  “This is a guy who wants to start fights.” – Annabelle Gurwitch (16:03)

• No Change Expected:
  Schiff argues that even if Mullin replaces Kristi Noem, real control of DHS would remain with Stephen Miller in the White House (16:49).

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6. Immigration, Despair, and Hope (16:56–18:46)

• A Teacher’s Perspective:
  Gurwitch talks about her work with young asylum-seekers and tells the story of a promising Venezuelan student, the first high schooler arrested by ICE, expressing heartbreak and hopelessness about immigration policy (17:10–18:09).

• Cycle of Blame:
  Gurwitch theorizes that, as Trump looks to boost his numbers before November, personnel purges (“firing people to take the blame”) will accelerate (18:09–18:38).

• On Venezuela:
  Lemon jokes about reading reports of Venezuela’s recovery—restaurants reopening, people partying—while the U.S. struggles with democratic dysfunction (18:38–18:46).

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7. Jesse Jackson’s Legacy (18:46–20:21)

• Personal Remembrance:
  Don Lemon, though misattributed in transcript as Gurwitch, credits Jesse Jackson and his family for opening doors for black journalists—including himself—in Chicago. He credits Jackson’s advocacy for paving the way for Barack Obama’s ascent:

  “If it were not for Jesse Jackson, there may not be a Barack Obama. And there may not be a Don Lemon sitting here. So respect to him.” – Don Lemon (19:48)

• Imperfect, Transparent, but Impactful:
  The panel praises Jackson’s transparency about his flaws, his role as a happy warrior, and his authenticity, reflecting on the real influence he had despite personal imperfections (19:57–20:21).

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Memorable Quotes

• On Government Transparency:

  “Why are they continually hiding this evidence?” – Adam Schiff (03:32)

• On Healthcare and Inequality:

  “GoFundMe is not a medical insurance plan.” – Annabelle Gurwitch (14:49)

• On Messaging:

  “The ammunition that the Democrats have to fire is just... God, they’re just loaded. And then it doesn’t work. Why doesn’t this message land?” – Don Lemon (09:42)

• On Jesse Jackson:

  “He was very supportive of me and the journalists there... If it were not for Jesse Jackson, there may not be a Barack Obama. And there may not be a Don Lemon sitting here.” – Don Lemon (19:47)

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Notable Timestamps

• Epstein Files & Allegations – 00:58–06:19
• Trump Prescription Drug Plan – 06:19–09:40
• Democrats’ Messaging & Election Strategy – 09:42–11:18
• Wealth Taxes & Inequality – 11:18–14:42
• Markwayne Mullin/ DHS Shakeup – 15:10–16:56
• Immigration, Youth, and Hope – 16:56–18:46
• Jesse Jackson’s Legacy – 18:46–20:21

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Tone & Style

The conversation is darkly humorous, incisive, and unfiltered—grappling with grave policy failures and national scandals, yet still willing to find the absurd and the comic relief amid the chaos. The guests blend personal stories, outrage, and weary wisdom, particularly on topics like the Epstein investigation and American health care.

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For listeners who missed this episode, the panel’s candid exchanges offer a window into the ongoing political and moral challenges facing the country—with a healthy dose of gallows humor and experienced skepticism.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Bill Maher]

Britain welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

[Don Lemon]

All right, here we are with an actress, actress, an author whose forthcoming memoir is called the End of My Life is Killing Me, Annabel Gurwich. He's a Democratic senator from California, Adam Schiff, and he's a journalist who hosts the Don Lemon show podcast. Don Lemon. All right, here are the questions from the people. What do you make of the latest batch of Epstein files released by the another batch? Yeah, this is like the McRib.

[Adam Schiff]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

It's always a new batch.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Well, it's actually reconstituted.

[Don Lemon]

Right.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Because these were files that were in there and then they took them out and then they put them back in after they were caught.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, well, what's in them? I haven't seen the new batch.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Really.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I saw what came out like a week or two ago that I thought it was millions and millions of pages. I thought that was it.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Well, there were a lot of files that were put back in. But the most concerning one is that there are, there's a woman, she was 13 at the time and she's older her now, but she accused Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump of being untoward, specifically accusing Donald Trump of raping her. And then in the file it says, according to her, something to the effect of I'm going to show you how to be a good little girl because she bit his penis during oral sex.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

No, it's, it's in there.

[Annabel Gurwich]

I mean, it's unsubstantiated.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

It's unsubstantiated. But it's really shocking,

[Annabel Gurwich]

Bill.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

I'm one of those people who thought that there was really nothing to this and that we really shouldn't pay attention to it. But I've really changed my mind about it.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, I, absolutely.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

And I've just come around 360 to the idea that these are really important and it's really important.

[Don Lemon]

I apologized to QAnon. Yeah, I did. I said that Democrats don't eat babies. But you guys were righter about this than I was. And when we were mocking you and saying, oh, these crazy conspiracy theorists, they think there's some sort of pedophile ring of the elites around the world.

[Annabel Gurwich]

And there was a pedophile ring of

[Adam Schiff]

elites around the world.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

Now I'm thinking there really was like a child trafficking in Pizzagate. Like, let's go look in that pizza parlor.

[Adam Schiff]

No, no, there's not a pizza gate.

[Don Lemon]

Hillary's not part of it. Okay.

[Adam Schiff]

I don't know whether this is part of any recent batch. This is what I'm really looking at. There were 40,000 documents that were withheld by the Justice Department which include the FBI interviews with that 13 year old victim. Why did they withhold those in the first place?

[Don Lemon]

Right.

[Adam Schiff]

And are we ever going to see these things? They're letting members of Congress go to the justice department to see 3 million files that have not been released. But the catch is you can only bring a pen and pad. So I've got to sit there and go through 3 million documents. I can't download anything. I can only take notes. It's obviously designed not to be an effective way to do oversight and find what's in there. Why are they continually hiding this evidence?

[Don Lemon]

Just the kind of question Shifty Schiff would ask.

[Adam Schiff]

Well, I'm going to have to sharpen that pencil neck and find out.

[Don Lemon]

That is so fucked up, that is so amazing that they would even try to pull that up. What is the rationale behind that? I can't even imagine.

[Adam Schiff]

Well, I don't know that they've given one exception. It gets worse because when members go and you do a search, like if I were searching for those missing 302s, the missing FBI interviews, they keep a record of my searches. So you have to use their computer. They keep a record of what I'm looking for. And I mean, I haven't gone down there because it's designed for me not to be able to effectively look at the documents. But the fact that they're essentially spying on members who do go down there and what their searches are shows you exactly what they're all about. And it's all about hiding the evidence.

[Annabel Gurwich]

It's about hiding the evidence and then retribution for people like you to find something on you. What is he looking for?

[Don Lemon]

Right, right.

[Annabel Gurwich]

If you, if you get anywhere near, you know, the what they don't want you to see, then they're going to come after you.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

But what about all of the women who stood up behind Kristi Noem and haven't had their testimony taken? I mean, talking about what's in the Epstein files, what about what's not in the files. I was really moved by that when these women stood up. It takes a lot of courage to come forward, stand up like that.

[Don Lemon]

I agree with you.

[Adam Schiff]

But what's concerning to me is that

[Annabel Gurwich]

no one has been brought in for questioning. Hillary Clinton, who doesn't really know Jeffrey Epstein, has been brought in. She was questioning about Pizzagate.

[Don Lemon]

It was so stupid.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Heads of state in foreign countries have lost their positions and people are suffering consequences, except for the people who are closest to it. And the one person who is mentioned in the Epstein files, you know, second to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislain Maxwell, is Donald Trump. And no one is questioning him about this. Especially an allegation, an allegation from a 13 year old child. That's serious shit. So what's going on here?

[Don Lemon]

Especially what she said, I mean, yeah,

[Annabel Gurwich]

and that was part of what she said. She went on to say other things that were just equally as deplorable.

[Don Lemon]

Let's get to the next question. My penis is hurting now. I mean, Annabelle, what's your take on Trump Rx, Trump's proposal to reduce prescription drug costs? And then maybe you can answer and then you can tell us if there's anything actually good in that because there was something that was buried in the news because there was so much scandalous stuff. Have you followed this?

[Guest/Author with cancer]

Yes, I have an official term for this. This is a crock of shit. This is a total bullshit non fix to real issues that we have. And one of the things that happened after I was diagnosed, you know, I got involved in the global community in science and I've also seen how differently. For instance, the EU administrates drugs, pharmaceuticals and medical care versus the United States. We have left all the decisions to the states and this has to do with pharmaceutical prices. There are different insurance policies state by state that affect your survival. In the EU they are borderless. If you can't get treatment in one EU state, you go to the next state and your home country covers the cost of that. They're caring about everyone's health. This little nitpicky thing, which first of all, it's hard to understand what actually you do with this Trump RX thing because is it part of your insurance? Is it not part of your insurance? It's just making it harder for the consumer. They keep telling us that we have to be informed consumers with health care. This is not trying to pick between Cocoa Puffs and Captain Crunch. We can't understand this stuff. It's too complicated. We need one fix, not this.

[Don Lemon]

Well, what was in this bill?

[Adam Schiff]

Well, as I understand it, this Trump RX program basically tries to give the facade, the impression that it's reducing drug costs, but these are medications which you can already buy at reduced cost. And in fact, you're not really the manufacturers of the drugs haven't lowered prices for this website. So it looks like kind of a marketing scam. But it does bring me back to the one meeting I had with Trump during Trump 1 when he invited me into the Oval Office, and I was trying to steer the subject matter to things we might actually agree on. And first I brought up infrastructure, because it was infrastructure Week, every week without infrastructure. And his first comment was, yeah, you Democrats really like your infrastructure, which was kind of odd considering he was the infrastructure president. But then I brought up prescription drugs because he had expressed interest in working with Elijah Cummings on bringing down the cost of drugs. And I said, you know, we should work on that. You know, we should work together on that. And he says, I like Elijah Cummings. He has a lot of nice things to say about me. And I remember thinking to myself, I. I know Elijah very well. I have never heard him say anything nice about you, but we went through those four years, really, without his making any serious effort. So I think this is a kind of a marketing idea designed to give the impression he's trying to bring the cost of at least one thing down.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Yeah, it's all a show. You know that.

[Don Lemon]

I do know that. I'm just wondering if the. But why doesn't it work? You know, I mean, it's amazing the way we have these elections. And it seems like when I look before the election, boy, the ammunition that the Democrats have to fire is just. God, they're just loaded. And then it doesn't work. Why doesn't this message land?

[Adam Schiff]

You know, it landed in November of this last year in the special elections. We were disciplined. We focused on.

[Don Lemon]

A little late.

[Adam Schiff]

Well, yes, I mean, it was, you know, certainly wasn't 2024 when it would have mattered big time. But in every election since his election, Democrats have really crushed it. And I think, Bill, you're right. It is probably 90% voting against Trump and 10% voting for Democrats. But the fact that we have been united on a message that centers around people's everyday cost of living, their inability to afford medication and groceries and everything else that is a big enough umbrella for a very diverse Democratic Party to stick together behind. And so far it's been very successful. And I think if we continue between now and this November with a laser like focus on trying to improve the quality of people's lives and helping them, you know, make sure the economy works for them, then we can have a resounding November. If we get.

[Don Lemon]

You're going to. They're going to kill it in November. There's no doubt about it.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Do you think the Democrats are going to kill them?

[Don Lemon]

Absolutely, there's no doubt about it.

[Annabel Gurwich]

But there's a long time between now.

[Don Lemon]

There is a long time, but it's, I mean, it's the words that I ended that my editorial tonight with. Was it Jon Ossoff who said that like they are the elites they pretend to hate, but as you saw what I said after that is if the Democrats can weaponize that message, if it doesn't seem like it should be that hard because, you know, again, the stuff is right there laying on the table. All right. Do you support Bernie Sanders new legislation that calls for an annual. This is for you, senator, an annual 5% wealth tax on America's billionaires.

[Adam Schiff]

Yeah. So I haven't looked at Bernie's proposal, but I am supporting a Wyden proposal, Ron Wyden, which would basically put a tax on unrealized capital gains. So a lot of very, very wealthy people never have to sell all the assets they own. They pass them to their heirs. They live off of what they borrow from these appreciating assets. And so they don't have to pay tax on any of this. And you could raise trillions of dollars.

[Don Lemon]

You're talking about estate taxes.

[Adam Schiff]

What's that?

[Don Lemon]

You're talking about the estate tax.

[Adam Schiff]

I'm talking about taxing unrealized capital gains. So if you have something that keeps appreciating in value and you're making over $100 million in income every year, which is a small group of people, we should tax that. We should have a much more progressive tax code. I'm going to look at what Bernie's proposed, but I think at the end of the day, we have to address this extraordinary income gap, this degree to which a handful of families own more, collectively half a dozen families than 40% of the whole country. And so whether it's a wealth tax like Bernie's or it's a proposal like Ron Wyden's, I'm for it. If it's going to help address this income inequality and use those resources to make the economy work for average Americans again.

[Don Lemon]

But Gavin's against him. It's interesting that there is a split in the Democratic. I mean, Gavin Newsom's a pretty liberal guy. He's against this. I mean, billionaires, I mean, I'm a million miles from being one, so I don't give a shit what happened to them.

[Annabel Gurwich]

If you look at this in the most simplistic way, let's just be honest. If you have the opportunity to live in America where you have the privilege of becoming a billionaire.

[Don Lemon]

Right.

[Annabel Gurwich]

What is 5% going to.

[Don Lemon]

I couldn't agree more.

[Adam Schiff]

Matter.

[Don Lemon]

So, yeah, I don't know the specifics, but it makes. The problem is, here's the argument against it. This is why Gaba Newsom is against this. It makes billionaires leave the state and many already have. And then the tax base actually goes down.

[Annabel Gurwich]

But where are they going to go? They're going to step Florida.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, so just Texas.

[Annabel Gurwich]

But in the entire America, if it's 5% of all billionaires, where are they going to go?

[Adam Schiff]

They're going to move to another country.

[Don Lemon]

Well, if you make it a federal law, yeah. Well, that ain't going to happen.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

You know, I look at this and I don't want to be just like mono focused, but through a health care lens. If you're not a billionaire in this country with the wealth gap now, there's a reason why One third of GoFundMe are medical crisis related.

[Don Lemon]

And bankruptcies.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

And bankruptcies. Okay. I do a lot of mentorship now and I recently had a couple staying at my house who had lost their home because of the medical costs incurred through their cancer treatment.

[Don Lemon]

You're such a saint. You have cancer but you're giving your house to somebody else. It's so true. I'm not a saint. We kind of are.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

I am not. I'm not a saint. But I have an extra bedroom and it's one small action I can do. But because this is just terrible that this is happening in America. GoFundMe is not a medical insurance plan.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. Do you think Mark Wayne Mullen. Mark Wayne. What was Trump's thing? Get me someone who sounds like a serial killer.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

I always think people with three.

[Don Lemon]

Who sounds like a serial killer? John Wayne Gacy, Mark Wayne.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

They always want three names. It's really scary.

[Don Lemon]

No, this is one name. Mark Wayne is one name. That's. That's what makes it even stupider. His name is Mark Wayne. It's not three names.

[Annabel Gurwich]

He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

[Don Lemon]

His middle name is also Mark Wayne. It's Mark Wayne. Mark Wayne Mullen.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Mark Wayne is probably Mark Wayne. Wayne Mullen.

[Don Lemon]

Don't tell me not to be laughing about this. You know, we. Okay. Will he be an improvement over Kristi Noem as DHS secretary? I mean, how could he be?

[Annabel Gurwich]

This is a guy who wants to start fights.

[Don Lemon]

Did you see that when he Total election Denier.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Election Denier, mma. Yeah. And he's the one who said it was a war. He said, we're in a war right now, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then 10 seconds later, a reporter asks him about war, and he goes, we're not in a war. The president hasn't declared war. And they said, you just said 10 seconds ago. And then he said, that was a misspoke.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. Will he be better?

[Adam Schiff]

Will he be better than Christy Noma? I think you'd want to ask his dog that question. I'm guessing the dog would say yes. He's got to be an improvement. I mean, I don't know if we're going to see much or any change in how that agency is led, because it's really led by Stephen Miller in the White House.

[Don Lemon]

Right.

[Adam Schiff]

So I suspect it won't be different. Although it's hard to say that anyone could be worse than Kristi Nelmoz.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

You know, I am not a saint, but I do volunteer with an arts programming project. You know, we. What we do is.

[Don Lemon]

I was going to come, but I was reading to blind children that night.

[Guest/Author with cancer]

What we do is we provide arts programming and mental health services for young migrants seeking asylum in the United States. One of my students was the first student, high school student arrested by ice, Dylan Lopez Contreras in the Bronx. And when I was his teacher, I was so impressed by this young man because he happens to be from Venezuela, which is a problem right now for Trump. Everything Venezuela. This fantastic young person who I taught him, I thought, this is what America is going to be. He was the first student arrested. And it really broke my heart. And I just feel so. I'm having trouble not feeling hopeless about this situation, about who is going to be. Who are going to be the next Americans.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Well, let me tell you why you should feel hope, because there's always the first domino of the first shoe. And I think Kristi Noem is the first. And I think once his base and the American people get used to him firing people, you'll start seeing him fire other people to take the blame for whatever atrocities that have been committed in this country or misdeeds. And then because he's going to try to improve his poll numbers before the November election. And so you're gonna. I think you're gonna see maybe a complete change of hacks.

[Don Lemon]

And Venezuela, even the New York Times and npr, I read they say the restaurants are open again and people are partying.

[Annabel Gurwich]

It's like, hey, but our democracy is in the shitter.

[Don Lemon]

Okay, well, let's us go to Venice. Final question. Jesse Jackson's funeral today was attended by foreign presidents Biden, Obama, and Clinton. What are your reflections on Jackson's contribution to American politics?

[Annabel Gurwich]

I was invited. I did not go, because I'm here, but I so, you know, rest in power. Jesse Jackson, Who was very instrumental in my success, him and his family. I was a local anchor in Chicago. Yeah, I was a local anchor in Chicago, and he was very supportive of me and the journalists there, especially the black journalists, to make sure that we got a fair shot. We got to interview the people of import, that is Barack Obama, when he was state senator running for US Senator and then running for president of the United States. And I know all of his children, and they are. He did a great job with his kids. If it were not for Jesse Jackson, there may not be a Barack Obama.

[Don Lemon]

That's true.

[Annabel Gurwich]

And there may not be a Don Lemon sitting here. So respect to him.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. I always loved Tabern Oman. He was always. He's a character. Happy warrior.

[Annabel Gurwich]

But what I loved about him is that he wasn't perfect. And he. But he said, we all have sinned and come short, of course. But he was very transparent about it, and I always liked that about him. Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

I mean, he was a politician.

[Annabel Gurwich]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

I mean, politicians have. You know, he was a man of the people, but he was a man. There you go.

[Adam Schiff]

I. I cannot improve on anything Don said.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. All right. Thank you very much.

[Bill Maher]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com.