Overtime – Episode #728: Gillian Tett & Bret Stephens

Summary

Real Time with Bill Maher – Overtime Episode #728: Gillian Tett & Bret Stephens (May 5, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this Overtime episode, Bill Maher is joined by Gillian Tett (Financial Times columnist and head of King’s College, Cambridge) and Bret Stephens (Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times opinion columnist) to take viewer questions on urgent global topics. The trio covers the Iran conflict, AI biosecurity risks, public health bans, anti-Semitism in the West, and the paradox of economic intervention under the Trump administration. The discussion is marked by candid exchanges, sharp wit, and notable skepticism regarding both U.S. and British politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump, Iran, and the Prospect of War

• Trump’s Approach to Iran (01:22–06:57)
  • Bret Stephens supports current efforts to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, even if it means targeted military action:
    • “I think the blockade is a good idea. ...that was the purpose of this mission, stopping Iran from getting a nuclear bomb and is a very worthy objective.” (01:27)
    • He clarifies that devastation of Iran is not the goal: “What Trump says about setting Iran back to the Stone Age...is despicable. ...We don’t want to devastate the Iranian people...” (02:36)
    • He emphasizes the importance of denying the regime nuclear capability while hoping to create space for regime change: “Maybe now [the world] has stage one or two cancer. ...I think it is better at a minimum to buy time against an adversary like that.” (05:29)
  • Gillian Tett offers a financial and diplomatic perspective, introducing acronyms reflecting market skepticism toward Trump:
    • “The great battle right now is between the TACO acronym – Trump Always Chickens Out ...and the new acronym: NACHO – No Chance Of Hormuz Opens.” (03:20)
    • She notes the unintended consequences of military action, such as strengthening the regime by eliminating moderates and suggests more focus on supporting the Iranian people: “...they’ve actually consolidated support for the regime and they’ve killed off many of the leaders who were more moderate.” (05:08)

2. AI and Biosecurity Threats

• Risks of AI-Assisted Bioweapon Design (07:00–08:17)
  • Gillian Tett and Bret Stephens agree that AI’s dangers are irreversible:
    • “You can’t put the genie back in the bottle... I suspect the only way to fight the risks of AI is to use more AI to try and monitor what’s going on.” (Jillian, 07:27)
    • “If I could wave a magic wand and actually end AI, I might actually do it. ...so that 17-year-olds won’t have their papers written for them...” (Bret, 07:46)
    • Both advocate for analog solutions to foster critical thinking:
      • “Blue books can save human civilization.” (Bret, 08:15)
      • “Analog is a new luxury.” (Jillian, 08:17)

3. Public Health: The U.K. Cigarette Ban

• Personal Liberties and Policy Extremes (08:28–09:18)
  • The panel critiques the U.K.'s ban on cigarette sales for those born after 2009:
    • “Personally, I don’t agree with a complete ban. I do agree in not selling cigarettes to under 18s, but I don’t agree personally.” (Jillian, 09:11)
    • Bill Maher uses this to comment on perceived extremes in British policy:
      • “Every time I think this country’s too woke, I look at what’s going on in your country and I’m like, wow, these people are really fucked up.” (Caller/Bill, 08:42)

4. Radicalization and Anti-Semitism in the UK

• Safety and Social Cohesion (09:18–12:14)
  • A discussion on media narratives, discrimination, and violence:
    • Bret Stephens laments declining safety for Jews in Britain:
      • “Jews in the UK feel less safe than they have since the days before Cromwell. ...Attacks against Jews are always the indication that there’s something deeply rotten in the value system of the country.” (10:18)
      • He connects anti-Semitic violence to broader currents of hostility and radical activism: "...when you have a huge mass of people who think Israel is a demonic state ...at some point [it leads to] people [thinking it’s] okay to target individual Jews.” (11:40)
    • Gillian Tett cautions against singling out the UK since anti-Semitism is widespread in the West, referencing attacks in Australia and the U.S.: “There’s been a lot of anti-Semitism right across the Western world, including in America.” (12:10)

5. Trump, Spirit Airlines, and Economic Nationalism

• Right-Wing Interventionism (12:14–13:02)
  • The panel notes the irony of “right-wing” economic policies involving bailouts:
    • “You’ve got a supposedly right-wing government that’s turning more nationalist... The White House ...criticizing Momdani in New York ...then rushed out and basically are investing...and talking about buying Spirit Airlines. I mean, that is not capitalism as most people...” (Jillian, 12:28)
    • Bret Stephens offers a sardonic take on Trump’s bailout habit:
      • “He can call it Trump Airlines. It can go bankrupt like the first Trump Airlines and it will be a metaphor for his entire career.” (Bret, 12:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bret Stephens: “What Trump says about setting Iran back to the Stone Age... is despicable. ...We don’t want to devastate the Iranian people.” (02:36)
• Gillian Tett (on AI): “Analog is a new luxury.” (08:17)
• Bill Maher/Caller: “Every time I think this country’s too woke, I look at what’s going on in your country and I’m like, wow, these people are really fucked up.” (08:42)
• Bret Stephens (on economic bailouts): “He can call it Trump Airlines. It can go bankrupt like the first Trump Airlines and it will be a metaphor for his entire career.” (12:53)

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Segment Timestamps

• Opening & Iran War Discussion: 01:05–06:57
• AI & Biosecurity: 07:00–08:17
• UK Cigarette Ban: 08:28–09:18
• Anti-Semitism in the UK & West: 09:18–12:14
• Spirit Airlines & Economic Policy: 12:14–13:02

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This Overtime segment offers a brisk, unsparing analysis of global policy dilemmas, with panelists challenging each other and conventional wisdom. The tone is skeptical but lively, balancing worry about world events with dry humor and occasional flashes of hope for more thoughtful policymaking.

Transcript

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[Bill Maher]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

All right, these are publisher, prize winning opinion columnist for the New York Times, Bret Stephens. And she is the head of King's College, Cambridge, my old job, and a Financial Times ACT columnist, Jillian Said. Okay. All right, Brett, this is for you.

[Caller/Interviewer]

How can Trump wrap up the Iran war and claim success? Oh, what a question.

[Bret Stephens]

I think the blockade is a good idea. I think if the Iranians don't come to terms, by the way, I think they'll be under a great deal of economic pressure very soon as their inability to fund themselves becomes more severe. I think he may have to stage operations to seize the enriched uranium. It's difficult, but doable. That was the purpose of this mission, stopping Iran from getting a nuclear bomb and is a very worthy objective. And if then that leads, not now or even in six months, but in a year's time, that pressure leads to the end of this terrible regime, the world will be much better off for it. So right now the war feels like stopping World War II in 1943. You can say, well, it's a failure, but we should continue. Because the objective of preventing this uniquely evil regime from getting these uniquely devastating weapons is a good objective of the.

[Caller/Interviewer]

But you don't want to go back to bombing the country, do you?

[Bret Stephens]

I would, no, only for the sake of achieving the objectives that we need to achieve. Which is. Oh, that.

[Caller/Interviewer]

Of course not for shit.

[Bill Maher]

I didn't think we were going to do it for shits and giggles.

[Bret Stephens]

No, but my point. Let Me. Just be clear. What Trump says about setting Iran back to the stone Age, ending a civilization is despicable. Okay, that's despicable. All right. We want an Iran, which is the great nation that it is, to rejoin the community of civilized countries and to overthrow regime which is opposed by 90% of Iranians. We don't want to devastate the Iranian people. What we want to make sure is that these thugs who run the regime don't have access to weapons. And if that requires us going into places like Isfahan and other sites where we have to get this nuclear material, then to the extent that requires bombing military action, that's worthwhile.

[Jillian Said]

Well, good luck on that one. But I'd say, ironically, from the point of view of the markets, the great battle right now is between the TACO acronym. Trump always chickens out, which is one reason why the markets are so surging. People think Trump wants an exit ramp and the new acronym, which is nacho. No chance of this. Hormuz opens. That's nacho. Think about it. N A C H O chance hormones opens or not a chance. Hormuz opens. And the reality is actually reopening the Strait of Hormuz is going to be incredibly hard. However, you, you know, even if you send in troops and try and take over the country, or do you SWAT teams to try and get.

[Bret Stephens]

But in that case, then it's something that we have to do. I've spoken with military experts. They say it's a difficult thing, but that we can do it. And the principle that. The principle do what? Open the Straits of Hormuz. If the Iranians won'tif. The Iranians won't yield to military and diplomatic pressure because the principle that Iran can control an international waterway is outrageous and dangerous. And by the way, I would add, this is something where I know the Europeans have good reason to be extremely upset with Trump for the threats to Greenland and all the rest of it. But the Europeans also have an interest in contributing something to making sure that this part of international law is respected. I know. Like, for instance, the British and other NATO allies have mine anti mine capabilities. They should contribute.

[Jillian Said]

Yeah, the British have already volunteered to help with the mine.

[Bill Maher]

The British, they're just.

[Bret Stephens]

They're just going around the Cape of Good Hope.

[Jillian Said]

The British. Yeah, the British have volunteered already to go. And. Well, those are. The Iranians are going down south, but. And the British have volunteered already. But of course, if Trump had actually once spoken to the Europeans before he went in and maybe even asked their advice. 2. Not threatened to invade Greenland regularly. It might have helped a bit in terms of trying to get some coordination, collaboration.

[Bret Stephens]

I agree. I couldn't agree more.

[Jillian Said]

And the problem right now is it's also, if the American SWAT teams do go in and do this Rambo esque type mission to get the uranium, what happens after that? Because one problem is, one tragedy about what's happening is that by bombing Iran in this way, they've actually consolidated support for the regime and they've killed off many of the leaders who were more moderate. Wait, they can actually spoken to you?

[Bret Stephens]

Hang on a second. The leaders who were more moderate just murdered 30,000 Iranians and like, oh, you know, we could go back to the good old days when they killed 30,000 people in the street. Look, I don't know what's going to happen. What I know is that in June of last year, before we hit their sites, the United States did. Iran's nuclear program was weeks away from, from acquiring a nuclear capability. We had. The world had the equivalent of stage four cancer. Maybe now it has stage one or stage two cancer. I don't know what comes next, but I think that's better. I think it is better at a minimum to buy time against an adversary like that. And if the result is you create a space where the Iranian people do have an opportunity to rise up, hopefully this time assisted by their friends overseas, let's try to create that space. There's no guarantee because we're not going to invade Iran and do it for them, but let's at least try to make sure that, that we don't get to the point when this, this regime can get so close to a nuclear.

[Jillian Said]

But it'd be nice if. I agree with that. It'd be nice if President Trump Funde spoke more about the Iranian people rather than just the oil.

[Bret Stephens]

Oh, I regret President Trump at the moment, but at least he, at least he was willing to do something and I have to give him credit for that. I just can't oppose him because he's a schmuck.

[Jillian Said]

I agree.

[Bret Stephens]

I mean, sometimes schmucks help you out,

[Jillian Said]

but then you have to start actually talking about the Iranian people who have suffered so badly under this current regime. I pay more attention to them and try and support the opposition group that are trying to push for change in some countries.

[Caller/Interviewer]

All right, let's do another question.

[Bret Stephens]

All right.

[Caller/Interviewer]

How should policy messages for you respond to reports? How should policymakers respond to reports that AI can help generate instructions for biological weapons? Yes, all the things we're talking about this week. This is probably the one that's going to be affecting our lives the most. AI can help generate instructions for biological weapons when Covid was bad and the lab there and blah blah, blah. This is just doomsday stuff.

[Jillian Said]

That is absolutely true. It is doomsday stuff. It's been true for a while. It's terrifying. You can't put the genie back in the bottle right now, unfortunately. You can't just switch off all the AI in the world. I suspect the only way to fight the risks of AI is to use more AI to try and monitor what's going on.

[Caller/Interviewer]

Really?

[Jillian Said]

Yeah. Do you have an answer?

[Bret Stephens]

No. I think you're right. Unfortunately it's too late. I mean, if I could wave a magic wand and actually end AI, I might actually do it. Not least so that 17 year olds won't have their papers written for them by a machine and they could learn to think by learning to write.

[Jillian Said]

The answer to doing that is basically getting to do handwritten essays.

[Bret Stephens]

Yes.

[Jillian Said]

Or to have one on one supervisions. Again, not to talk about Cambridge, but that's what we do there. We actually have handwritten papers and exams.

[Bret Stephens]

Blue books can save human civilization.

[Jillian Said]

Exactly. Okay, you can say analog is a new luxury. Good.

[Bret Stephens]

Yes, it is.

[Caller/Interviewer]

So your country is banning cigarettes after 2000 from anyone who was born after 2009 under 18.

[Jillian Said]

Yes.

[Caller/Interviewer]

Right. Well, I guess that's what it is. If you were born after 2009.

[Jillian Said]

Yeah. Do the math.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Caller/Interviewer]

You'll be. It's illegal to buy cigarettes. Why? I mean, don't people get to make their own mistakes? Don't we get to do what we want to do? I mean, you're an adult and you can't have a cigarette if you want. I mean, every time I think this country's too woke, I look at what's going on in your country and I'm like, wow, these people are really fucked up.

[Jillian Said]

Well, does that make you feel better?

[Caller/Interviewer]

It does not make me feel better, but it puts one perspective in this situation.

[Jillian Said]

Okay. Personally, I don't agree with a complete ban. I do agree in not selling cigarettes to under 18s, but I don't agree personally.

[Caller/Interviewer]

But how did England get so leftist? I mean, I've read that the United Arab Emirates will not send their students to the UK because they're afraid they're going to be radicalized.

[Jillian Said]

I think that might be some of the fake news that you're concerned about because there are plenty of UAE students. Students from the Gulf.

[Caller/Interviewer]

Well, maybe now, but this is something they did recently they said they're going to end scholarships to the uk and

[Jillian Said]

where did you read that? Because I mean, again, there's been an awful lot of stuff on social media. A lot of the fear mongering about the UK right now is whipped up this idea somehow London is a no go zone. It's full of, you know, people walking around with the Sharia law and all that on every street. A lot of those witnesses.

[Bret Stephens]

But hang on a second.

[Caller/Interviewer]

Two Jews did get stabbed this week. Just. Somebody went. Just.

[Jillian Said]

They did. And that is horrific and tragic and abhorrent.

[Caller/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Jillian Said]

The UK is not the only place where we've had attacks from Jews at all. And all of that is abhorrent.

[Caller/Interviewer]

All right?

[Bret Stephens]

It's not. From everything I hear, Jews in the UK feel less safe than they have since the days before Cromwell. It is. And I think that the British government needs to sort of understand just how serious this is a threat, not just to the Jewish community, but to British democracy itself. Because attacks against Jews are always the indication that there's something deeply rotten in the value system of the country where this is springing. And I understand that there's the particular problem of attacks from, you know, radicalized young people against Jews, but they are swimming in a larger current where Palestine action goes and swings a hammer at a policeman and the person who swung the hammer gets acquitted by a jury. Where. I mean, I was just in London in April. Obviously you were there. But I was flabbergasted by the extent to which the city seems to have mobilized on behalf of a particular cause. So again, it's a little bit like our earlier discussion. You know, when you have a huge mass of people who think that Israel is a demonic state, it's not. And that's ok. It's at some point going to translate into people who think it's okay to target individual Jews. It's okay to send a car bomb into a Manchester synagogue because they're mad about what's happening in the Middle East.

[Jillian Said]

I agree with you. Anti Semitism is abhorrent, however. That is abhorrent, however, Australia had a massive anti Semitic attack in Bondi Beach. America has also had a lot of anti Semitic attacks. So to single out the UK because two people were stabbed, at least not shot, but stabbed, well, I think it's

[Caller/Interviewer]

the only thing that's happened in the uk Exactly.

[Jillian Said]

There's been a lot of anti Semitism right across the Western world, including in America.

[Caller/Interviewer]

So final question. What's the impact of spirit airlines shutting, shutting down? Do you think Trump will end up bailing them out. He said we're just going to buy seems to be his answer for a lot of things. We're just going to buy it.

[Jillian Said]

Yeah. The irony is you've got a supposedly right wing government that's turning more nationalist. Terms of the attitude of the economy and the left wing and the idea that, you know, the White House was criticizing Mamdani in New York for daring to think about creating some state owned grocery stores and then rushed out and basically are investing in all these mineral natural resources groups and talking about buying Spirit Airlines. I mean, that is not capitalism as most people.

[Bret Stephens]

Well, I have a plan for it. He can buy it. He can call it Trump Airlines. It can go bankrupt like the first Trump Airlines and it will be a metaphor for his entire career.

[Bill Maher]

We'll leave it there. Thank you very much.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime on HBO on Demand. For more information, log on to hbo.com.