Overtime – Episode #734: Rep. Ro Khanna, Jonathan Martin

Summary

Podcast Summary: Real Time with Bill Maher Overtime – Episode #734

Host: Bill Maher
Guests: Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA), Jonathan Martin (Politico)
Date: June 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of “Overtime” features an energetic discussion between Bill Maher, Rep. Ro Khanna, and political journalist Jonathan Martin. The panel tackles the Democratic Party’s leadership crisis, key 2024 election issues, generational change, the pragmatic limits of progressive policies, and America’s nuanced debates on gun rights and public safety. The tone moves briskly from critical analysis to sharp humor, with pointed exchanges on the Democratic Party’s future, the feasibility of progressive policies, and the challenges of appealing to both the party base and the broad American electorate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Democratic Leadership and Hillary Clinton’s Comments (01:20–02:50)

• Topic: Hillary Clinton’s assertion that Biden’s 2024 reelection campaign was a “terrible mistake.”

  • Jonathan Martin notes that Clinton voiced “received wisdom, gospel truth among most Democrats,” but criticizes the lack of candor from party leaders before the 2024 campaign.

    • Quote [01:33]: “She was saying out loud what I think has become received wisdom, gospel truth among most Democrats, Roe. But where Was she in 2022 and 2023?”

  • Ro Khanna advocates for generational change, suggesting party elders should step aside for younger leaders.

    • Quote [02:25]: “Thank you for your service. You’ve had your time. Let a new generation [lead].”

2. The Next Generation of Democrats & Democratic Socialists (02:50–05:20)

• Discussion of promising new leaders such as Andy Bashir, Zohran Mamdani, and Pete Buttigieg.

  • Khanna highlights Mamdani’s ability to unify across political divides with skillful speechmaking, while Martin raises concerns about Mamdani’s spouse’s political positions.

• Delineation between establishment Democrats and Democratic Socialists.

  • Martin observes, “There’s Democrats and there’s Democrat socialists. I mean, those are two distinct parts of the same party.” [04:26]

• The difficulty of translating big-city progressive politics to national appeal:

  • Martin asks if leftist platforms “can play beyond New York, Seattle...” noting Bernie Sanders’ unsuccessful presidential runs. [04:45–05:20]

3. Progressive Policy Feasibility: Socialism, Health Care, Economics (05:20–08:21)

• Ro Khanna clarifies his position as a “progressive capitalist” who supports economic development and a modern FDR coalition.

• Debate about the Democratic Socialist platform:

  • Martin supports some tenets (reduce military spending, D.C. statehood, end Electoral College), but questions others (universal healthcare, open borders, canceling student loan debt).

  • On universal healthcare, Khanna insists a national program could work, referencing Canada and Taiwan.

    • Quote [06:57]: “It’s worked in Canada. We pay twice as much for health care... and we’ve got the worst health care outcomes.”

  • Martin challenges the federal government’s ability to implement what states like Vermont and California could not.

    • Khanna explains: “Because the states didn’t have the waivers to get the money. You need the federal money... It’s hard to do it in a state without the waivers.” [08:05]

4. Student Loan Debt & Economic Inequality (10:44–13:20)

• Martin and Khanna debate canceling student loan debt:

  • Martin suggests it would disproportionately benefit the relatively well-off.
  • Khanna differentiates: “They shouldn’t forgive student loans for people like me. But if you’re working class, you’re first in your family to go to college... we can pay off that debt. [...] Tax Elon Musk. Tax the billionaires. You’re not taxing the blue collar guys.” [11:14]

• Khanna laments centrist Democrats’ failures with “working class voters,” referencing NAFTA and the erosion of manufacturing.

  • Quote [12:41]: “We shafted those communities. We need to say we made a mistake and... invest in those communities.”

5. Supreme Court, Guns, and Marijuana Users (13:39–15:17)

• Martin introduces the Supreme Court ruling that habitual marijuana users can’t be banned from owning guns:

  • Panelists react with humor, but Maher and Martin express support for the decision.
  • Martin [14:13]: “Why wouldn’t you want a gun?”
  • Khanna: “I respect the Second Amendment... I’m for investing in police. I don’t think the answer to crime should be everyone takes justice into their own hands.” [15:03]

• Discussion pivots to the risks of self-defense laws and the boundaries of justified force.

  • Khanna differentiates between legitimate self-defense and abuses of “stand your ground” laws.
  • Khanna [15:17]: “There are cases where people have taken the law in their own hands, shot folks who are innocent.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Democratic Leadership Stagnation:
  • Jonathan Martin [01:33]: “Where were every prominent Democrat in the lead up to the reelection that Biden should not have pursued?”
• On Generational Change:
  • Ro Khanna [02:25]: “Thank you for your service. You’ve had your time. Let a new generation.”
• On Medicare for All:
  • Ro Khanna [06:57]: “We pay twice as much for health care... and we’ve got the worst health care outcomes.”
• On Student Debt and Billionaires:
  • Ro Khanna [11:14]: “Tax Elon Musk. Tax the billionaires. You’re not taxing the blue collar guys.”
• On Working Class Betrayal:
  • Ro Khanna [12:41]: “We shafted those communities. We need to say we made a mistake and... invest in those communities.”
• On Guns and Self-Defense:
  • Jonathan Martin [14:13]: “Why wouldn’t you want a gun?”
  • Ro Khanna [15:03]: “I don’t think the answer to crime should be everyone takes justice into their own hands.”

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 01:20 – Analysis of Hillary Clinton’s critique and the Democratic establishment’s 2024 strategy.
• 02:50 – Calls for generational change and naming of next-generation Democratic leaders.
• 04:26 – Differentiation between establishment Democrats and Democratic Socialists.
• 05:20 – Discussion of progressive ideas vs. political reality (national viability).
• 06:03–08:21 – Debate on Democratic Socialist policies, especially healthcare.
• 10:44–13:20 – Student loan forgiveness, wealth tax, and working-class voter alienation.
• 13:39–15:17 – Supreme Court ruling on guns for marijuana users and the limits of self-defense.

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Tone & Flow

• The conversation is spirited, often sharp, with Ro Khanna leaning into policy specifics and a populist tone, while Jonathan Martin brings journalistic skepticism.
• The tone is a blend of irreverence, frustration with party orthodoxy, and an underlying plea for pragmatic progressivism.
• Key points are argued with insight, humor, and more than a little impatience with establishment politics.

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This summary captures the major discussions and highlights the candid, sometimes contentious dialogue between two perspectives on the future of the Democratic Party and American democracy. The episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the direction progressive politics might take in the post-2024 landscape.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

This podcast is sponsored by Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business.

[Ro Khanna]

I'm Lonnie, co founder of Zoic Studios and one of the directors of House of the Dragon Season 3. From traveling to set to turning ideas into action, I'm always on the go, contemplating our next move, our next shot.

[Bill Maher]

114, take one. Mark.

[Ro Khanna]

It's a grind, but it's what I love. Nothing is more rewarding than the collaborative power of creativity for world builders everywhere.

[Bill Maher]

The business card that gives back all you put in Chase Sapphire reserved for business cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank, any FDIC subject credit approval terms apply.

[Unidentified Moderator/Producer]

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[Bill Maher]

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series Real Time with Bill Maher.

[Jonathan Martin]

All right, he's Politico, senior political columnist and host of the on the Road podcast, Jonathan Martin. And he's a Democratic congressman to represent Silicon Valley Representative Ro Khanna.

[Unidentified Moderator/Producer]

Okay.

[Jonathan Martin]

All right, from the people, the questions are for you guys. What are the panel's thoughts on Hillary Clinton saying that Joe Biden's presidential re election bid was a terrible mistake? Well, well, I mean we all came to that conclusion a long time ago.

[Roe]

But the timing was interesting because it was the same week that Obama was opening his presidential library and you had the Obamas obviously on stage, but right behind the Obama's bill you had the Clintons on one end and the Bidens on the other end. It was a little frosty between the Bidens and the Clintons because I think, because of that comment she was saying out loud what I think has become received wisdom, gospel truth among most Democrats, Roe. But where Was she in 2022 and 2023? Where were every prominent Democrat in the lead up to the reelection that Biden should not have pursued the Democrats original sin? Yes, Biden running again. It was bigger than that. It was Democrats in Congress, the governors not saying a damn word about Biden running again and in fact enabling it and saying he should run again in 2024 when privately, you know, and I know they were really worried about him doing it again.

[Ro Khanna]

Okay, it was obviously a mistake for him to run again. But you know what we just. I respect Secretary Hillary Clinton. I respect these folks. They need to exit stage left, let a new generation lead. And I don't know why she's having these conversations. Like, people want to hear from Andy Bashir, from Mamdani, from Pete Buttigieg. There are a lot of great people in the next generation. Thank you for your service. You've had your time. Let a new generation.

[Jonathan Martin]

So you think Mamdani's a great one, huh?

[Ro Khanna]

I do. I mean, did you see his Knicks speech?

[Jonathan Martin]

I mean, not the issue that most concerned me.

[Unidentified Moderator/Producer]

I don't.

[Ro Khanna]

It's worth the watch because the speech was not just about the Knicks. First of all, he like, recites every Knicks player. I mean, I couldn't do that about

[Jonathan Martin]

the shit about the Knicks. He's the mayor of New York.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, yeah, but he talks about how it's actually bringing people together. Trump voters, Madani voters, how it's overcoming the odds. And he took a speech that was just about celebrating the championship and he made something bigger about it. He's a talented.

[Jonathan Martin]

Well, it doesn't make me forget that his wife loved 10-7-attack on Israel and that he pals around with terrorists.

[Ro Khanna]

No, come on. Have you had him on the show?

[Jonathan Martin]

We ask people like that, Roe. They never come.

[Ro Khanna]

I'll talk to him.

[Jonathan Martin]

I would love that. I think he should, too. I do, too. I would love to talk to him.

[Ro Khanna]

He's a smart guy and I can do a fine.

[Jonathan Martin]

I'm not saying he's not a smart guy.

[Ro Khanna]

He's.

[Jonathan Martin]

He went to the White House.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, I mean, he took.

[Jonathan Martin]

He went there, but he can't come here.

[Ro Khanna]

He should come here.

[Jonathan Martin]

He should come here. Oh, so should aoc, so should all of the Democrats.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, they should come here. You don't bite. They're fine.

[Jonathan Martin]

I voted for them, not him. But I mean, he needs Trump's money,

[Roe]

though, and he doesn't need your money here, unfortunately. But the reason he was there stroking Trump was because he needs federal help for New York. And so he understood he had to be there playing the Trump's ego in vanity because he can't have the Feds being hostile to New York City. He needs federal help. Look, I think.

[Ro Khanna]

But I think it's bigger than that, Jonathan. I agree with the strategic, but I think he has a view that you go, you talk to everyone, you engage everyone, you engage Trump. That's why you should come.

[Roe]

Not real time, apparently. Unfortunately.

[Jonathan Martin]

Well, I mean, there's Democrats and there's Democrat socialists. I mean, those are two distinct Parts of the same party. I mean, they are obviously in a coalition together. But people who are Democratic socialists make that distinction. They say, I am a Democratic Socialist. That's Bernie Sanders, that's Mondami, that's the mayor of Seattle, a number of them.

[Roe]

And so far it plays in big cities. But there's no evidence yet that you can. You can take that outside of major metro cores in this country. And I think one of the fascinating tests of the 2028 Campaign for President is is there going to be somebody that reflects those views that can play beyond New York, Seattle, Now a Washington, D.C. look, Bernie Sanders is over to running for president. I mean, okay, so it had been tried previously and it hasn't worked. So the question is, can this play on the road somewhere else? South Carolina, New Hampshire or Nevada, beyond a big city? It hasn't so far.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, first of all, we're in a different time than 2020. And many people have seen income inequality soar, these wars that they don't like.

[Roe]

But you aren't a socialist, are you?

[Ro Khanna]

I call myself a progressive capitalist. I call myself for economic patriotism. Rebuild the FDR coalition, but make sure it includes the black south, where we're talking about building new factories in places like Pennsylvania, having new trade schools, having health care for everyone. With Medicare for all, I believe having Economic Development and Economic Bill of Rights, you can have a majority coalition. FDR did it. He did it four terms.

[Jonathan Martin]

But you say the party, the big. The tent is big enough for both the Democrats and the Democratic Socialists. Because. Can I read you some of the things that are in the Democratic Socialist catechism platform?

[Ro Khanna]

Sure.

[Jonathan Martin]

Okay. Because some of them I agree with. Here's the ones I agree with. Reduce military spending. I've been saying that forever, especially in the age of drones. Buying fighter planes is ridiculous.

[Ro Khanna]

I appreciate you saying that because I'm one of the only votes on the House Armed Services Committee. They go, they boo me when I vote no. But I was like, why are we spending 65% on the military?

[Jonathan Martin]

Close bases overseas, saying that forever. Restore voting rights to criminals, criminal convictions. We should be doing that a long time ago. Statehood for D.C. i'm for that. Get rid of the Electoral College. Okay. Can I read you the ones that I think are crazy?

[Ro Khanna]

Sure. I mean, I may not agree with them either.

[Jonathan Martin]

Universal health care, no premiums, no CO pays, no deductibles. They tried this in Vermont. They couldn't get it to work.

[Ro Khanna]

You could do it nationally. It's worked in Taiwan. It's worked

[Jonathan Martin]

Taiwan is not a state, Rob. I hate to say it, no, but

[Ro Khanna]

look, it's worked in Canada. We pay twice as much for health care as any other industrialized country. And we've got the worst health care outcomes. If you had a single payer, if you just expand Medicare. Moynihan wanted to do this. If you expand Medicare for everyone and everyone has to pay a little bit

[Jonathan Martin]

more, so why couldn't a state like Vermont, I mean, they've also proposed it here in California and the budget would have to be like $800 million. It would be like twice or three times what we pay for everything now.

[Roe]

The US Congress is not going to end private health care in this country.

[Jonathan Martin]

They're just not.

[Ro Khanna]

No one is talking about ending private health care. They're talking about expanding Medicare. And. And then if you have Medicare with a hearing and vision and dental question and then you expand it, then people can still get supplemental private insurance. The reality is Medicare works. And if you expanding it is the biggest way to lower costs in this country and get everyone covered. I don't think you look at the what has worked. When Johnson created Medicare, he envisioned that it would eventually cover everyone. The reason we don't have it is private health insurance companies spend again.

[Jonathan Martin]

I'm confused why it would work nationally when it couldn't work even in these

[Roe]

two states and the Obama.

[Ro Khanna]

Because the states didn't have the waivers to get the money. You need the federal money. You can't. You need the Medicare Medicaid money that the states didn't have. And so it's hard to do it in a state without the waivers. If you have the waivers and you have the right policy on taxation, then you can do it.

[Roe]

And what line hurt Obama the most on the aca? If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. He got jammed on that because people want to keep their doctor. The only thing that people hate more than healthcare and health insurance companies is fucking with their health insurance companies because they want to have the same health care. Just screwing with people's health care invariably hurts the party that is doing the screwing.

[Ro Khanna]

I agree with that. But you don't get if you're not talking about national health care, you're talking about national health insurance means you can keep your doctor. You can go see any doctor you want. Every doctor is in network.

[Bill Maher]

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[Roe]

You could say that again.

[Bill Maher]

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[Ro Khanna]

Now we party.

[Bill Maher]

This is incredible.

[Jonathan Martin]

Wow.

[Roe]

I am clearing the rest of the day.

[Bill Maher]

Disney and Pixar's Hoppers. Now available on Disney. Rated pg. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail] own the dream.

[Jonathan Martin]

Okay, how about this one? Workers. Workers can migrate free across borders. That seems like I was a loser for the Democrats last time. I don't think that's going to be a winner. Or is it really even?

[Ro Khanna]

What does it even mean, open borders? No, I think we need a secure border. And there you go.

[Roe]

Okay, that's the talent to loser.

[Jonathan Martin]

Limit. Limit. Supreme Court's power of judicial review. Okay, now we're going back to our history buffs. 1803, Marbury versus Madison. I mean, it wasn't in the Constitution, but it is go 1803. That this is what the Supreme Court does. It reviews.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, I'm fine with judicial review, but we should have term limits on these Supreme Court justices.

[Jonathan Martin]

Okay, that's a different issue. Okay, All college free and cancel all student loan debt.

[Ro Khanna]

You know, from the time we were in Iran, literally, we could have free public college in America. I mean, what would be a better investment for the United States? Literally, for the amount we spent on Iran, we could have free collection.

[Jonathan Martin]

What about canceling student loan debt? Because a lot of people say, and I would agree with this, it sort of helps the better off people. I mean, the person who doesn't go to college is now going to subsidize the person who's going to make a lot more money because they did go to college. It doesn't seem actually like a progressive thing to do.

[Ro Khanna]

I took out a lot of student loans. I've done well. They shouldn't forgive student loans for people like me. But if you're working class, you're first in your family to go to college, you have all this debt, and then you're paying off your debt until you're 50 or 60 and can't get a house, we can pay off that debt. And you know how we pay for it? Tax. Elon Musk Tax the billionaires. You're not taxing the blue collar guys. Here's Bill without cesare. I represent 1/3 of this nation's wealth in a 50 mile radius. $20 trillion.

[Jonathan Martin]

Right.

[Ro Khanna]

1/3 of the nation's wealth is in my 50 mile radius. Stock market is 70 trillion. 20 trillion. We're producing more wealth than ever before. And you're telling me we can't have health care and free college for Americans? If Americans, you know, when I go out and I speak and I say, Elon Musk has become a trillionaire, usually people just boo. And I was like, why is that? Why aren't they cheering? It's because they aren't getting anything.

[Roe]

The politics, though, are risky. It's one thing to expand community college access, make that free, perhaps make, you know, some state universities free. But what Bill's talking about is the politics of telling a blue collar guy, hey, your taxpayer dollars are going to forgive some, you know, college smartass. He's not paying his loans back. He's like, well, how is that helping me, man? So risky?

[Ro Khanna]

Because that's the Republican frame. What we got to tell you is the billionaires have screwed you and they've screwed the college kid. Get the college kids loans forgiven and put a Marshall Plan in America to build new industry.

[Roe]

Democrats already have a challenge with working class voters.

[Ro Khanna]

You know, because killing your party, nafta, because we did China in the World Trade Organization, because we watched places like Bucks County, Pennsylvania, where I grew up, fearless work shut down, steel plant shut down, and we didn't do a thing. And you know what? If Donald Trump hadn't won, this is one thing I say to my Democratic friends. No one would have been going to war in Ohio and, and Middletown, Ohio, and downriver Michigan. We shafted those communities. We need to say we made a mistake and we're actually going to invest in those communities. But you can do that and forgive the student loans if you just tax some of the billionaires in my district. I don't understand it. The guy who represents that area is saying, tax them. How is this hard for 434 other members of Congress?

[Jonathan Martin]

Well, you're

[Ro Khanna]

well running, man. We're done.

[Jonathan Martin]

You are really pushing that Pennsylvania angle, aren't you?

[Ro Khanna]

I mean, it's like

[Jonathan Martin]

when you run for president, you don't want to be the California guy and the Pennsylvania guy.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Roe]

Palo Alto. Never heard of it.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Martin]

Actually, Taiwan. What does the panel think of the Supreme Court ruling that habitual marijuana users can't be banned from owning guns? Now you have My attention Too soon. No, that's amazing. That's awesome. That's. That's fair. I mean, I want guns and I can't have them because I don't. Because it's illegal. Because I am a. Perhaps. Or maybe it's a gun guy.

[Ro Khanna]

You would want guns? I don't know.

[Jonathan Martin]

Of course.

[Ro Khanna]

Okay. I didn't know.

[Jonathan Martin]

Why wouldn't you want a gun?

[Ro Khanna]

I don't know. I mean, I don't have a gun, but I mean, I respect the second amendment. I just didn't. I wouldn't have thought that you had guns.

[Jonathan Martin]

I mean, I don't because of that,

[Ro Khanna]

but yes.

[Jonathan Martin]

I mean, you know, I can't expect the police to be everywhere like that. I mean, when you need a gun,

[Roe]

I mean, well, now you can get a side piece. So there you go.

[Jonathan Martin]

And of course, another complaint I would have about California is it almost isn't makes no sense to have one because you almost can't use it. Because if you do, you might be the one to go to jail. I mean, you can shoot an intruder in your house, but you better do it exactly right. He better be in your bedroom facing you. Really don't shoot him on the law either.

[Ro Khanna]

He couldn't be high when you do it.

[Jonathan Martin]

You shoot him on the lawn, you're going to go to jail. I mean, that's kind of ridiculous, isn't it?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, look, I think that we need to. I'm for investing in police. I'm for having public safety. I don't think the answer to crime should be everyone takes justice into their own hands.

[Jonathan Martin]

Even if there's somebody in your house?

[Ro Khanna]

Of course, if they're in the house. Self defense.

[Jonathan Martin]

Well, that's what we're talking about.

[Ro Khanna]

Yeah, but in other parts of the country you've had self defense taken and people shot, shot, shot. You know, Trayvon Martin's case. There are cases where people have taken the law in their own hands, shot folks who are innocent.

[Roe]

Let's get his side piece.

[Jonathan Martin]

Okay? No one wants that side piece. We're talking about guns. Thank you very much.

[Bill Maher]

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch him anytime time on HBO on demand. For more information, log on to hbo. Com.