← RealLife English: Learn and Speak Confident, Natural English
RealLife English: Learn and Speak Confident, Natural English
#289 How to Live, Speak & Master English in the Real World
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- [00:03]
A
Welcome to the RealLife English podcast, where we help dedicated English learners just like you cultivate the courage, the confidence and the skills that you need to understand real life native English, to communicate clearly with people from all around the world, and to make your life an epic global adventure. Now, are you ready to go beyond the classroom and start living your English? Can I get an aw? Yeah. You've decided to learn English. You've decided that it's important to you. You've decided to work on your mindset in order to become a confident, natural English speaker. But now you might be wondering, how can I learn English successfully? What practical things should I do? Well, in today's episode, we'll share with you the principles behind our method, the Real Life Way, along with practical tips that you can start implementing today in order to live, speak and master your English in the real. Oh, yeah. Boys and girls, citizens of the world, this is Ethan from RealLife English, where we believe that listening to podcasts is a fun, Natural, convenient, and 21st century like way to learn English. So download this podcast and listen to it while you're stuck in traffic, mowing the lawn, catching some rays, or even training your dog. Oh, yeah. I'm joined here in the global studio first off, by the one and only Axel Pose, AKA Thiago. How's it going, Thiago?
- [01:35]
B
Hey, guys, everybody, I'm doing well. Glad to be back.
- [01:38]
A
And also by the only man to ever beat a brick wall in a game of tennis, Justin Murray. How's it going, Justin?
- [01:44]
C
I'm doing great. Awesome to be here. My first podcast with Thiago here. Great to be on the on this with you, Thiago.
- [01:51]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [01:52]
A
Likewise excited here in the virtual studio. So today, as we mentioned, we're talking all about the Real Life way, which is our method for helping learners like you to go beyond the classroom and live, speak and master English in the real world. So we're really excited because today we are Talking about the second step in the RealLife way, which is method. So if you've ever felt a little bit overwhelmed because there are just so many resources out there and you're not sure what are the steps that you should take to get real world fluency, then you're going to get a bunch of tips today that are going to help put you on the right path. But before we get into talking all about method, let's rewind a little bit because a few podcast episodes ago, we started off talking about the reallife way with Kase about the first step, which is mindset so, Thiago, maybe you could just give them an overview of what is the mindset aspect of the real life way.
- [02:45]
B
All right, so that was episode 284, how to think like a Confident Natural English speaker. So in case you haven't listened to that one, we highly recommend you do so. But just to give you a brief overview of the principles behind the mindset, principle number one is starting with why. So it's really important that you find your inner purpose, why you want to learn English, why you want to improve your English. Then principle two is realizing that English is the doorway to your greatest life and it has the potential to transform your life tremendously. Considerably. Right. Then we move on to Principle 3, which is about breaking out of our comfort zone. Understand that learning a second language well will require you to do things that maybe you wouldn't feel too comfortable doing at first. For example, like talking to people if you are more shy or introverted, or adopting new habits that you are not used to doing yet. So this is principle three, breaking out of your comfort zone. And finally, principle four is about owning your English and owning your life. In other words, taking responsibility for your learning. Understand that you are the primary person responsible for your learning.
- [04:03]
A
Oh, yeah. So in today's podcast, there's a lot that goes into the method. So we're going to be just giving you a high level overview or introduction to it. But of course, we will be releasing more lessons in the future on each principle of the method. And this really, it's been a long time coming because in the teaching lab, which is basically a group of us inside of RealLife English that are discussing all of these concepts around learning English together, we're talking about these ideas and developing the real life way and our communication around it and the lessons for you. So when you listen to a podcast or you watch a lesson on our YouTube channel, you might just be seeing, for example, me or Kase. But just so much is going into the ideas around this, into thinking about it, into writing the script so that we can really bring you exceptional English lessons. And we're always looking for how we can deepen our knowledge of the English language and ESL teaching.
- [05:01]
C
And actually, one of the things we're doing right now with the teaching lab is we're workshopping the real life way. We're workshopping this methodology to really help you live, speak and master English in the real world. So this episode we're recording, we're going to actually go over as the teaching lab is a group of teachers and really think about how we can optimize this. So if you have any comments about this, how we can make this better, please let us know because we're refining your ideas. We're taking this to the next level so we can take you to the next level. And so we can help you not only transform your English, but transform your
- [05:30]
A
life and share your stories with us, too, because obviously, it always helps to hear about experiences in the real world of English learners.
- [05:37]
B
All right, so our main purpose here is to guide you to live, speak and master English in the real world. So in this episode, we will be breaking down the three overlapping components of that, which is living, Speaking, and mastering. But first, I would like to ask you guys, why do you think that these three components overlap Living, speaking, and mastering?
- [06:01]
A
So, actually, we're working on a framework, an image that would help to represent the real life way. And we'll share that in the show notes over@reallifeglobal.com but we see this as three overlapping circles. Live, Speak and Master English. And the reason they're overlapping is because they all affect each other and because there are three ingredients and you need all three, you know, if you have one or two of them, you're going to have some level of success. But until you really are able to create habits that engage all three of these, you're not going to be truly successful as an English learner. And really, you're always learning. So we really see it as like also an upward spiral because, you know, you'll always be experiencing these things in different ways as you advance on your journey.
- [06:45]
B
So it's not necessarily about levels, is it?
- [06:47]
A
It's not necessarily about levels. Right. Although you're on your own upward journey, so you're always looking for new ways to challenge yourself on these different aspects.
- [06:54]
C
Yeah. And I think a beginner can live, speak and master their English. An intermediate learner, an advanced learner. Whatever level you're at in your journey, you can utilize and take advantage of these three different elements of the real life way.
- [07:08]
B
Cool. So moving on to the first component of the method here, which is living your English in the real world. We believe that this is about making English a fun, natural, convenient part of your everyday life. So let's talk about these a little bit, guys. So starting with fun, right, what do we mean by making English a fun part of your life?
- [07:32]
A
Which I think for a lot of English learners is contradictory to the experience that they've probably had up until now, because most of us, our initial experience with the language is Very much associated with a classroom. And a lot of us might think of it like learning math or learning science, not learning. I've always liked to think of languages. Well, not always. When I was in school, I didn't. But as I've gotten older and I've taught English and I've learned several different languages, I definitely think of it more nowadays as an art because it should be something that in many of the experiences that you're having, is fun.
- [08:07]
C
This goes back to just thinking back when we first started developing this. We realized when we were teaching our students, they came in with this mindset that English was a dry and boring school subject for them. It wasn't interesting. They haven't really activated. They hadn't really activated that passion for the language. It was really important for us to help them activate that and integrate that into their lives. Right? Because if you're going to do something, you're going to be good at it. You have to have interest in that. You have to integrate it into your life in a fun, natural, convenient, everyday type of way. And ultimately you need to develop interest. Because if you don't have interest, if it's not fun, if it's not something that is not boring, then are you really going to find the time or the motivation to do this on a consistent basis, to build habits, to do what you need to do to really get to that point of mastery? So it's really difficult to talk about speaking and mastering English if you're not living your English, if you don't see it as part of who you are and part of your interest, something that, that. That you're actually invested in.
- [09:06]
A
Juan, you already mentioned it being fun and natural. So for me, like it being natural, it really means that something that you don't feel like you have to force yourself to do, or, or maybe externally, your parents, your job, other things around you have to force you to do it. Because it becomes something that you. You just do. It's a habit that you have. It's something that's comfortable. You really start to own the language more, just like you own your native language, because you just see it as something that you do every day.
- [09:34]
C
This is something we called in the past lifestyle English, right? Making it part of your lifestyle. And Thiago uses the term bilingual lifestyle. You want to talk a little bit about that?
- [09:44]
B
So when we say lifestyle, that's what we mean. It should be something that daily for you, which, for example, ties back to convenient, right? So when I think of convenient, I think about not having to sit down for two or three hours to study the language, but actually using the little moments you have in your day to practice it. For example, maybe you listen to a podcast while going to work, right?
- [10:09]
C
It's like you kill two birds with one stone, right?
- [10:11]
A
That's a really great example.
- [10:13]
C
So maybe while you're on the bus or in your car doing the dishes, like, kind of like we always joke around about, right? Make it a convenient part of your life. And also, it's just a question of, like, really starting to build those habits, right? Because if I think people make the mistake, like, going to the gym New Year's Day, right? Like, oh, I'm gonna this year, I'm gonna transform my body. I'm gonna become, like this muscular person or really thin or whatever. And then they create this huge plan, and then, you know, they do it for like, one day, and then they just collapse under the weight of the plan. But really, it should be simple, right? It should be something that you just integrate, kind of the idea of like, okay, if you want to build a running habit, just put your shoes on, walk out the door, and just get moving, right? You don't need to be a marathoner at the beginning. All you need to do is just put your shoes on and take a few steps, right?
- [10:57]
A
And making it something that you don't have to think about anymore. Because, you know, if it's a running habit, your shoes are just there by the door. When you wake up, you put them on, you get outside. And with your English, it's the same thing. You have podcasts downloaded on your phone. So as soon as you get in the car, as soon as you get in the bus, or as soon as you are are sudsing up the dishes, you have that podcast ready to go and you're listening to it.
- [11:20]
B
Yeah, I love this idea of killing two birds with one stone, as we say, right? Like doing two or three things while practicing your English in the process, right? And the fourth point here is about every day, right? So it has to be something you do every day. You can't expect to master something that you don't practice every day. What would you guys say about that?
- [11:41]
C
I had an experience recently when I've been running with my dog. With my dog every morning. I used to be a runner, and I used to run every day, right? But then I started running only a few times a week, and there was a dog that another owner, I ran into another dog owner in the street who lost her dog, right? So I start running to chase this Dog. And I just realized that I've been running every day and I realized that I feel like a runner. I am a runner, Right. And I didn't feel like a runner when I was only running a couple times a week, but running every day. I am a runner. I'm authentically a runner. There's something in me that says like, I'm committed. My body knows it, my brain knows it. And kind of the same thing with your English learning, if you do it every day, right. You are bilingual, you have a bilingual lifestyle and you're an English speaker. Right. It's part of your identity, it's part of who you are and you can't fake it.
- [12:26]
B
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So really looking at yourself as a bilingual person from the get go. Right. From the beginning of the process. Right. So, you know, we could also say here that it's about deliberately immersing yourself in the language. Right. Deliberately looking for opportunities to be in touch or in contact with English every day. Right.
- [12:48]
A
What does that mean to do something
- [12:49]
B
deliberately when you are intentional? You know, you don't leave it to chance or up to the universe. Right. For something to happen, but you are intentional. You plan it in your schedule, you insert it in your day. Right. So I guess the word intention, you know, being intentional could be a synonym here for deliberate.
- [13:08]
A
Most definitely. It's like you're not settling for less. You're not settling for it just being something that you go to class for two days a week or just settling for that feeling that you have every time you actually get the opportunity to speak English and you know you're not as good as you would like to be. It doesn't come naturally. Other people are more fluent than you. You feel like you freeze up, you're frustrated because you can't find the words. So no, you're actually taking. You're having the intention to say, like, you know, I'm going to get better and I'm going to make it a part of my everyday life. And there are ways that you can do that. When you're living your English, it doesn't always have to be a struggle. You can find ways to do it that, you know, you really enjoy and you stop even having to think about because it just becomes habit.
- [13:52]
B
Absolutely. Now, moving on to practical tips to live in your English. We have already touched on some points here. But for example, one thing could do is starting small with your devices. You know, make sure you change the language of your phone, of your PlayStation, your TV, your computer to English. Right. It's something small, but it makes a huge difference. What are the tips would you guys give the listeners here in order to live your English?
- [14:19]
C
I have a meta tip here. If you're at home, if you're not taking notes, pause this right now and go get a notepad and a piece of paper and start reflecting about how you can integrate these tips into your life. So that's kind of a meta tip. And I think in general, stepping back and thinking about that planning in your life. Right. You can even. Like, what I used to do when I was teaching my students is have them. Have they had a log. I know if you've done this too, Ethan, but they have a log. Basically, it's like plan out your week and plan out those moments when you're going to integrate English and then take note of this every day. This is a motivational factor, too, because you go and you put the check mark, yes, I did it, or the X, no, I didn't do it, and you feel good. There's a little small wins to celebrate that. Yes, you listen to the podcast, or yes, you listen to music, or yes, you watched that TV series or you read the book or whatever you're doing, getting those small wins and planning, being deliberate about planning your. Your. Your learning and then kind of building those motivational loops inside there.
- [15:15]
A
I think, too, I liked this idea of putting pen to paper. Something else you could just do is as like a prompt for yourself, something to. To help you get started and just doing a brainstorm, like, what do I enjoy? So what are things that you're already doing? Maybe you really like to watch sports, and maybe instead of watching that in your native language, you could start listening to a radio program, listening to a podcast, talking about this, or even finding somewhere where you can watch it with the commentators speaking in English. And you can do this for anything that you like. And there's communities out there, too. You can join communities where people are talking about this thing in English. So you start doing all these little things connected to the things that you already love. That makes it really effortless. And, you know, on top of this, maybe you'll start making friends who have the same interest. And you speak about this in English. I think this is something that, as a side note, people who play video games, they tend to get this intuitively because they start, like, they just fall in love with these video games. I know we have a lot of people on our team like this, and they've made friends in other countries because, you know, they're Part of these communities playing these video games. So. But you don't necessarily have to love video games in order to do that. There's communities for all sorts of things.
- [16:24]
C
This kind of goes back to what we were discussing before about mindset. Like, English is the doorway. So English sort of stops being that focal point, right. And it becomes a doorway. It's the background. Right. English is the master key, the tool to open that door, to do what you love. And it's not the focal point. You're just living. You're living your life. You're doing what you love. Right.
- [16:42]
A
It becomes a tool to live your most exceptional life. Right. Instead of a barrier.
- [16:46]
B
By the way, guys, I think you have two great books to recommend the listeners here. Yeah. On how to develop habits. Right. Could you talk a little bit about those books?
- [16:54]
C
Well, the first book that we're going to recommend is a book that we've read a couple books, actually. There's one a few years ago that Ethan and I read called the Power of Habit. Kind of talks about the psychology of habit and kind of like, what is a habit? Talk about, you know, trigger, reward. What exactly is a habit loop? Do you remember that, Ethan? This is a trigger, reward, action, right?
- [17:17]
A
Yeah. The cue. I think it's called the cue in that book. And then the action and the reward.
- [17:22]
C
Yeah. So basically, they talk a lot about this and how we build habits, good habits and bad habits. There's another book that kind of takes a lot of that framework a bit further called Atomic Habits. Right. And they talk about basically the importance of making your habits obvious, attractive, easy, and satisfying. Right. So making it obvious, for example, if you want to go running, put your shoes next to your door. Right. Or if. If you're gonna listen to a podcast, you know, put your phone, download the podcast, have them ready, but, you know, before you leave, for example, or maybe your English book or whatever you're studying, right? Making it attractive, making it interesting. Right. Making it easy, making it something that doesn't take too much time or effort. Right. And then make it at the end, make it satisfying. Make it. So when you finish, pat yourself on the back, celebrate the win. Yes. Oh, yeah.
- [18:09]
A
Yeah. And one of the best ways that you can actually start creating your English lifestyle is if you're not already listening to this podcast on the RealLife English app, using the transcript, you get all of the most important vocabulary that you might not be understanding. So it makes listening to this podcast much more deliberate, as we were speaking about. And on top of that, we've heard so many learners from around the world say that the top problem that they have is that, you know, the they can improve their listening on their own because they're digesting different things that they love and they are reading books or they're reading magazines, reading the newspaper. They're doing all these different things, but they don't have anyone to speak with. And so we went ahead and solved that problem on the app by making it effortless for you. You just have to press a button. You instantly connect to another English learner in another part of the world for a fun and dynamic conversation. So I think that transitions perfectly into the next principle in the method of the real life way. But before we get into that, since we're speaking about the app, we have a shout out to a very special app user and listener.
- [19:14]
B
All right, so the shout out today comes from Delfina Bustos and she says, hi, guys. I've been using this app for a month and it's such a nice experience. I practice every day and it really helps me to improve my listening skills while learning new vocabulary. It's so useful because I use it while doing my daily routines. I can't thank you all enough. You are doing a great job. Thanks a lot. Cheers from Argentina.
- [19:41]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [19:41]
A
Oh, yeah. Thanks so much, Delfina. And I highly recommend, as I said, if you are not already using the app, give it a go. You have nothing to lose. It's free. And if you enjoy it, then leave us a five star review in your favorite app store and we might just shout you out as well. So that's it. Let's roll into the next principle of the method. What is that? Thiago?
- [20:00]
B
So the next one is speaking English in the real world. But you know, I think at this point it's interesting for us to define what we mean by the real world. So when we talk about speaking English in the real world, what do we mean here, guys?
- [20:16]
C
Well, part of it is kind of in direct opposition to the classroom, right? Like we say, go beyond the classroom. Right? Beyond the classroom. It doesn't mean to exclude the classroom or the school suck or burn your grammar book, Right? I think maybe that's your attitude, whatever. But it's kind of like learning the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. This is a Picasso quote that we use a lot, right? Rules are important. Right. But I think it's awesome if you can apply what you're learning in the real world and from there, use grammar, use the rules, use the theory to complement that because it's grammar and rules in the theory is much more interesting when you're actually in the real world. Applying it, falling down, making friends, you know, relationships, living your English, it's part of who you are. Right. Then the, the grammar makes so much more sense. It's so much more motivating. I think it's, it's dry and it's boring and it sucks when you're, all you're doing is you're studying, you're, you're lost in the library, right? So if you're living it, it's awesome. That's the real world. And we have kind of something we've thought about. We have a couple definitions of real world fluency. Right. So I would just pose to you, Ethan, what's real world fluency?
- [21:20]
A
Yeah. So there's kind of a simple way that we like to define it is that you're able to understand anyone. That's really important that you can understand fast speaking natives. You speak to people also from different countries. English is the global language. So you're confident when you, if you're in your job and you have to make a call with someone in China or someone in India or someone in Australia, you know, you've got the tools that you need to understand anyone. And then of course, being able to be understood by anyone, having, you know, real clarity in the way that you speak, this doesn't mean that you have to have a native accent. If you want to, if you want to work at that, then that's great, but it's not necessary. And using your English finally to connect to the world. So actually we talked about this a lot in the Mindset podcast as well, but that, you know, using your English for a purpose that's beyond yourself, using it as a vehicle for your dreams.
- [22:16]
C
I would think about it kind of like a European mindset. I think a lot of times people in Europe, all these countries are close together and when you travel from one country to the next, like English people don't have like any like precious vanity about what English is. People don't want to be perfect. I mean, I wouldn't say like all Europeans are like this, but I think people who travel in general, if you go to a hostel, you going to see this. It's like English is for a tool. It's, it's, you're using it for communicating, for connecting with people. You're using it for a purpose. And people don't, don't get kind of like lost in, in their mind. And some like, you know, Vanity idea that I'm going to speak perfectly or I'm going to speak, I'm going to be like a native. Right. I don't know where people get this, but it's not really what's the most useful thing. But besides a certain point, once you get past a certain point of like communication and competence, right. To be able to really connect with people and communicate. Right. Understand and be understood. It's. There are diminishing returns in your learning. So you can get to that point and it's useful and you're, you're, you're. It's really effective.
- [23:13]
A
So, Justin, you said a couple things. You said precious vanity, which is really interesting collocation. And, and you said diminishing returns. What do those two things mean?
- [23:24]
C
Well, when I say precious, it's kind of like people think, I don't know what I'm saying. It's almost like a diamond, something that's so beautiful. People, there's this vanity in it. Like, maybe it's because, like, when people learn the language, they think of themselves like, oh, how am I going to look? How am I going to seem speaking English? People are going to see me like a native and all this stuff, and I'm going to be perfect. Right. And I. Maybe this is like a motivational thing for people when they're starting off sometimes, but I think it kind of goes back to like, why are you learning a lot of people, it's not really like when you, when you ask, when you, when you ask yourself why several times and you really get to the truth of why you're learning, like that perfectionism isn't really something that it's precious. It's vain vanity in the sense of like caring what other people think about whether people think about you, rather than like the true authentic experience of the reality of what's going to happen.
- [24:13]
A
Yeah. It's in a sense too, realizing you're on your own journey. It's unique. Each person, we all learn differently. We all go at different paces. We all have different goals for our English. So for one person, maybe it is really necessary for them to put in the hard work to really have a near native accent. But for someone else, maybe it's enough that you really work on your pronunciation so you can be understood by anyone and maintaining your native accent.
- [24:36]
B
Yeah. I think that's why it's important to start with why. Right. To really define what your goal or purpose with the language is. Because just to give you guys an example, once I had a student whose goal was to Just travel with his family. He wanted to go to US and other countries, and he didn't want to depend on an interpreter or a translator to help him. But his goal wasn't particularly about becoming a native like speaker. He just wanted to communicate enough so that he understood people and he was understood. So for a person with a goal like that, the way you go about learning or practicing the language is one. But on the other hand, I also had students who, for example, needed English for the corporate world. You know, they. They needed to have a high level of proficiency to give effective business presentations and talk about graphs or even engaging negotiations about, you know, related to big numbers in English. So for those people, you know, the approach is a little bit different. So defining what your goal is is crucial because then you can dictate how your studies will go. Right?
- [25:44]
A
That's a really good point. It really ties back into the mindset, the first podcast that we did on the Real Life way, because one of the big first steps that you need to do there is really get clear on why am I learning English, what is my big objective with it? And that will really define your personal journey of what you need to learn and focus on.
- [26:03]
C
So in some sense, like real world fluency, you can look at it like, I don't know to what degree this is fluency, but success, real world success is you achieving your goals, right? You being clear on what you want, and you can be successful. You can achieve that fluency for that purpose that you need. And that's good enough for you. That's good enough for fluency too, right?
- [26:26]
B
Now, guys, moving on to some practical tips to speak English in the real world, right? So let's list some tips here. First of all, I think we don't have to wait, right, to start speaking. We can start speaking from day one. What do you mean by this? Speaking from day one?
- [26:42]
A
Yeah, there's a great saying that says that there's seven days in the week and someday is not one of them. So this basically means that, you know, we have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we have seven days in the week, but there's no someday. So basically when we say this, we just mean that you kind of what Justin was saying, like precious vanity. That also happens with people want to be really perfectionist about, you know, once I've learned more, once I've mastered all the grammar, once I've studied enough, once I finish my English course, then, you know, I can start speaking someday. But someday is today. You need to start as soon as possible. It's if you're learning English. It's not possible to start from day one, probably, because if you've been. If you're listening and understanding this podcast, you've been learning for a long time. But if you are not already making it a regular habit to start speaking, then start now. You know, we've made it really easy for you with the app, you know, is to not. To not have any excuses because you can go there, press a button, and speak with. With another English speaker in another part of the world, anytime, anywhere. So you have really no excuses for not speaking your English, not developing that habit.
- [27:45]
C
There's kind of a fallacy in thinking that you need to develop this base to speak English. A child doesn't. Maybe they do develop a base. You have a base in some sense. But if you can understand these words or if you can formulate sentences, if you can write them, then you are in a place where you can start putting words together and trying if you can find the opportunity to do it. Because this is a process of learning. Even if it feels really uncomfortable and it looks really uncomfortable and you're embarrassed or people don't understand you, that's how you start, right? So, and then from there, it's like you can build theory around that experience, right? Because you're in the process. You're getting your hands dirty.
- [28:25]
B
You know, one of the things I've observed in some students is that they want to speak exactly as they sound in their native language, with the same level of complexity that they use in their native language, but they forget the fact that they are still in the beginning of the process. So be comfortable with speaking basic phrases, having simple conversations, because that's how you start. And then as you progress, you will be able to have deeper, more complex conversations. Right?
- [28:53]
A
Really embracing that silliness that. That childlikeness that you have when you're first starting to speak the language, because it's. It's, you know, just part of the journey. And you can even think about it. Obviously, like, adults don't learn exactly like children. But you can think about all of us. Probably know some child have observed some child learning their first language, and they're not worried about, you know, anyone judging them. They're just playing with it. They're playing with the sounds in their mouth. You know, they're not worried about having perfect grammar. I mean, it's really funny for me as, like, an English teacher, when I go back, I visit my family, my brother who has, like, young kids, and seeing them, they make grammar mistakes, you know, because we don't learn grammar as native speakers until we're probably 12, 13 years old. This comes to a concept that we talked about a lot, is that there is a time we're going to talk about mastery, and there is a time for that. There is a time to have that deliberate practice where you're sitting down, you're studying, you're working on ironing out your mistakes, you're working on not making those mistakes anymore. But when you're in the process of having a conversation, it's not the time for that. You kind of need to, like, leave that aside, embrace that you're going to make a lot of mistakes and just be in that situation of having the conversation, trying your best to make sure that you're understood. Trying your best to understand that other person and really. And really having that flow of using the language in that moment.
- [30:10]
B
Connection over perfection, right?
- [30:12]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
- [30:13]
C
And a lot of times people think like, oh, confidence is going to come naturally. Right? The confidence is. This is what you get by studying. But ultimately, courage is the first step a lot of times. Right. Courage to just get out there. Right. And then from that, from getting out there, from practicing, you develop competence. It's really hard to have confidence if you're not. If you don't feel competent. Right. If you can't trust yourself to be successful. Right. Confidence is built on the top of confidence, which is built on the top of courage. So oftentimes it starts with just courage. Right. Getting out there, and you build the skills necessary to have confidence. But so if you're at a lower level and you struggle with that, or even if you're at a higher level, let me ask you, Thiago, like, what are some things, What's a tip that you can do to sort of like, you know, give you the tools that you need to actually build that competence?
- [31:04]
B
Yeah, you can start with survival phrases, for example. You know, you can start by learning some short survival phrases that you use everywhere. For example, how can I order a meal in a restaurant? You know, so you memorize the I'll have, you know, structure. So I'll have chicken. I'll have a pizza. I'll have a glass of juice, please. You know, so focusing on language like that first, you know, that is going to give you something to work with already, right?
- [31:33]
A
Yeah. I think having those kind of collocations and practicing different situations, be it on yourself or with a teacher or maybe with a friend, are really valuable for. You know, I used to have a professor, a teacher that would say, we Practice like we play. And he'd say this because we do, like, a lot of practice exams and stuff like that, with the same conditions that we could expect on the official test day. And it's kind of the same thing that it's good to practice like you play. So, you know, prepare yourself, especially if you're really scared about, like, having a conversation, if you suffer from anxiety or shyness, then giving yourself that practice at home, so you've gotten in the reps, and when you get out there to have a real conversation, then you're ready for it. And I think you can have some things in your back pockets, like certain survival phrases, like, what do you mean? So instead of saying, I don't understand, which is more. It's okay if you say that, but it definitely does sound more like something that someone who's not so confident with their English would say, you can say, what do you mean? Which is kind of asking someone, what's the significance what you're saying? So maybe when you say that, they'll expand more on what they were talking about rather than just repeating it again. Or maybe if they're speaking really fast for you to understand, you could say, could you speak slower or could you say that again a little bit slower? So we've done actually another podcast all about different survival phrases like these, which we can link in the show notes. But if you have these in your back pocket, if you have them available to you, then you feel more confident when you get into a conversation because you know that if you don't understand, you have resources available. You don't need to just freeze and. And freak out.
- [33:10]
C
You know, it's kind of like armor going into battle, right? Like, I've. I've actually taken students who don't speak any English, actually, and taught these. The first couple of classes in Portuguese, kind of teaching these, because I live in Brazil, but teaching them these survival phrases, and then it's just like, all right, only English enough. If you want to speak Portuguese, you have to ask me, can I speak Portuguese? And then we go back to English, but all they have is survival phrases as armor. As armor as they build the muscles of the English competence.
- [33:39]
B
And something else that we have already touched on here is building your tribe, right? So finding a community of people with the same interests that you have and connecting with those people through English, right? And understand that 80% of English speakers are actually non natives, right? English nowadays has become the global language, the lingua franca, as we call it, right? So, you know, building a community of, you know, native speakers. Yes. But also non native speakers can be something very powerful in our journey.
- [34:10]
C
Yeah, it's like the whole world is open to you in some sense. So you can find people whenever you're interested in video games. Right. This is a great way to do this. Forums, communities. Because you're not meeting people just to practice your English. You're meeting people because you're authentically interested in them. And I kind of think of it like, imagine like your constellation of those five friends that you have from different places in the world. Right. This is like, it's like Real Life English in some sense. Like we have our, our tribe. Like the people that work at Real Life English, the people who, who awesome people. We call it the Team Beyond Borders. It's a microcosm of all of you guys who were serving as learners. Right. And it's amazing because, I don't know, it's like when stuff's happening around the world, you can actually know people from those places and actually have a better idea of what's going on. Right. It's just a really interesting way to develop a real global perspective, to be a global citizen and to really recognize that no matter what divides us, what unites us is far greater.
- [35:11]
A
Just a quick interruption to action. Ask you a question. Do you ever feel frustrated when you are listening to a podcast, watching a TV series, or you are in a conversation in English and you do not understand what is said? Wouldn't it be great if there was some way to understand real English without getting lost and without getting bored? Well, now there is. With our Real life native immersion course. We will take you on a 41 week real life adventure of the English language. Each week exploring a different topic connected to our goal to help you understand and use your English in the real world. Just imagine understanding your favorite TV series without subtitles or confidently speaking with someone and comprehending everything they say. You can do it and we're here to help. And the best part is you can try it for free with our three part power learning series. Just go to reallifeglobal.com pod to sign up. That's P O D. Or simply click the link in the description of this episode.
- [36:15]
B
So guys, I think that brings us to the third aspect here which is mastering, right? So we talked a little bit about living your English, making it a part of your life, speaking it, developing your confidence, right. Focusing on connection over perfection. But now we get into the third aspect here which is mastering English in the real world. So how would you define mastery what is mastery?
- [36:39]
C
Well, think about it like there are the three circles overlapping, right? Like living, speaking and mastering. Right. And think about it like kind of a flywheel or like a wheel moving around, right. Momentum, right. And you're spiraling up. The mastery is the part that really gets that wheel moving. The mastery is the part that gives you momentum, it keeps you growing and helps you spiral up. So when you start living your English again, it's easier, it's more natural, it's more part of who you are. And then when you're speaking, it's more natural, it's easier, it's part of who you are. Mastering is the part where you kind of. You step back and you look, well, I'm making mistakes. I'm leaving my English. Great. Give yourself a pat on the back. It's part of your life. But if all you do is just stay there living your English and you're not practicing, you're going to stay in the same spot, you're going to kind of fossilize into the mistakes that you're making, and you're not going to have that mechanism to defossilize the mistakes, to deliberately evolve your learning, because then you're just stuck, right?
- [37:38]
A
You get stuck on what's called the intermediate plateau. So that's a really comfortable place to be. Because in a lot of ways, you can understand most things. You can have a pretty confident conversation, but you always kind of stay just in that comfortable spot, and you're not expanding into your full potential as an English learner and speaker.
- [37:56]
B
And we also can mention here deliberate practice, right? So being intentional with your studies at this point. So if you are at this intermediate level, you can communicate well already. You can understand most of what you hear, what's next, Right. So one thing we believe here is having deliberate practice in your English, being intentional. So actually sitting down and studying certain aspects of the language to refine your knowledge.
- [38:25]
A
Right. And this isn't to say that you should be a perfectionist. You know, really, it's like mastery is a north star. You're never going to reach it. You'll be following it. You know, you're always. You're always trying to get closer to that. You're climbing mountains and you're crossing rivers and things like this, trying to get closer to it, but you are recognizing that you. You'll never be perfect, even when you're really, really exceptional. But it is something to strive for.
- [38:50]
C
Yeah, it's kind of like recognizing there's the phrase, life is a journey, not a destination, right? A lot of people kind of the same thing. English is a journey, not a destination. People envision themselves kind of being perfect someday, that they're going to have a microchip in their brain where they can speak English, they're bilingual, and that's. That's the image they have, right? But recognizing that, embracing the grind, recognizing this is a journey, it's an adventure, right? It's not going to be easy. You're going to have to learn. You're going to have to transform the way you live. You're going to have to transform and love it. You're going to love the process, right? You're going to have to love that. And that perfection is really an illusion. But you can get to the point where it's great fulfillment and great success in your process just by having that attitude.
- [39:30]
A
And as we always say, like, mistakes are really. You have to embrace mistakes. You have to see them as a good thing. But at the same time, you're not ignoring them. You're not making the same mistakes all the time. So little by little, you're starting to iron out these mistakes. You're starting to make them go away forever. And that's really the mastery aspect. So there's different parts of mastery. We've talked a little bit about accent, about pronunciation. What does it mean in mastery? I'll pass this to you, Thiago, since listeners can hear that you've really done a great job of mastering the accent, of having a really near native accent. So what does that mean to master the sounds of English?
- [40:09]
B
About that, I would say that the most important thing is for you to develop a pronunciation to a point where it's easy to understand you. You're not putting unnecessary strain on people, or you're not making it difficult for people to understand you. It doesn't mean that you're going to sound like a native. It doesn't mean that, or that you're going to lose your native accent. But it's about trying to work on your articulators the best you can so that you can sound more clear. And one thing you can do about this, actually is by studying more connected speech. For example, at this point, you know, connected speech is wonderful for your listening skills because it's going to help you understand English on the media, you know, when you watch movies, interviews, when you listen to music. But also if you can speak with a little bit of connected speech here and there, that's going to help you sound more fluid, more clear. You know, just remember here, the goal is not to sound like a native speaker. But as clear as you can, it's
- [41:11]
C
sort of like when you have connected speech to speech is how natives, native level speakers kind of connect and merge their words together, and it helps you create word chunks, right? So, for example, you mentioned earlier, Ethan, like, if. If somebody is saying, like, what do you mean? It's sort of like you sound like a robot in some sense. But if you can say, what do you mean? You connect those three words into one, right? You're. You're connecting them. It's connected speech, right? And so you can sort of create a word chunk, and that's one unit of meaning in your head. So when you want to know what somebody means, you say, what do you mean? If you look at your own language and your own communication and your native language, it's the same thing. You have connected phrases, word chunks. And this is really useful for fluency because the words sort of flow together in a much more easier and musical way, right? Another thing I think it's really important, kind of around that same topic is oftentimes when we're learning a language, the first thing we do is we learn grammar, right? So we look at the grammar and the written word, and we're reading it through the lens. And this is what schools like, traditional schools. This is like the curse of traditional schools is you're reading and learning the language through the lens of your native language. And you really need to decouple, disassociate, and kind of like just play and recognize that language is sound, right? Language is sound, and you shouldn't be reading it through the lens of your native language. It's almost like musicians are really good at learning language. Like, Chago is a musician, right? Why don't you speak a little bit about that? Thiago?
- [42:34]
B
Yeah, I mean, I did. Mimicking a lot, or mimicry, as we say, right? So the way I improved my pronunciation was by repetition, you know, so mimicry is about listening to something in English and trying to imitate that or emulate that as close as possible to how you hear it, right? And it's exactly what Justin said. It is music, right? Language is melody, it's rhythm, right? So first getting your voice to kind of match that, and then later you can start maybe focusing on individual sounds. For many years, I did that. For many years, I just consumed a lot of content in English, and I would try to imitate stuff. For example, if I saw the phrase, what the hell is going on here? In a movie, I would spend the whole day just Repeating that. What the hell is going on? What the hell is going on here? And I will play also with different emotions like, okay, now I'm going to sound frustrated. Now I'm going to sound sad saying this, you know, so that helped me a lot. But then after a while, when I started teaching in my early 20s, then I started to study pronunciation more deliberately. You know, I actually bought a book called English Pronunciation for Brazilians. And it's a book written by three linguists, professors here in Brazil. And the goal of the book was to teach American pronunciation to Brazilians. And the cool thing is that it was specifically for Brazilians. So they compare many sounds that Portuguese has that English, you know, maybe has also. And sounds that don't exist. Yeah, in Portuguese, but they exist in English. So. But I only did that later. You know, it really goes back to living, speaking and mastering. Right. Because I was living my English for years already. But then only later down the road, you know, I decided to deliberately study certain sounds of American English to really master them. But that came later. And that is the deliberate practice part there. But, you know, for those of you listeners who are still at an intermediate level or low intermediate level, focus on consuming English and try to imitate what you hear.
- [44:48]
C
By the way, I used to use that book too, the English pronunciation for Brazilians.
- [44:53]
B
Oh, it's awesome. It's an awesome.
- [44:54]
C
Yeah, it is. But I would definitely say, like, I don't know if this is what you're kind of parentheses here in the podcast, by the way. Just. Chiag, were you saying that you shouldn't, you shouldn't like, practice mimicry and that type of thing until later in your process? Are you saying that this is something that you would encourage, like, even early on?
- [45:14]
B
Oh, I would encourage that early on. You know, what I would say is you don't have to study the sounds early on. You have to focus on listening to as much English as you can and trying mimicry in the process. You know, like, try to imitate what you hear and then later, you know, when you are maybe more, you know, upper intermediate, let's say you could deliberately maybe learn certain sounds. Yeah.
- [45:39]
C
If you want, you give it more structure later on. But definitely I agree with what you're saying about the mimicry. I think in the, in the pre show conversation that we were having, we were talking about this. There's an element of identity. Like we oftentimes our identity, we're really attached to our native language. Right. And for example, if you're singing a song you want to pronounce something and you say it doesn't feel like who you are. Right. So, for example, maybe at home you can say, what do you mean? Repeat. What do you mean? And maybe that sound is really difficult because you're not used to it. And so you might say it and think that this is inauthentic. Right. But it really goes back to, like, who your identity, who you are, who your identity is and who you feel in your native culture, your native identity. And being playful with, experimenting with new identities and developing an identity in English. Because you don't need to speak English always through the lens of your native language, you can develop a new lens. And this is, I think, high levels of fluency really are developing this new lens in it. But it starts with playing with the language and playing with your pronunciation, playing with. With. With your identity.
- [46:44]
B
Yeah. I've already told you guys about this many times. You know, I really see this as expanding your personality, not limiting it. So, for example, maybe you are shy or introverted in your native language, but you might discover that you become a very confident and bold English speaker, you know, so really being open to embracing maybe a new side of you. Yeah. And not being too attached to your personality or identity. Right.
- [47:08]
C
Yeah. This is a fascinating conversation there. I think we can record a whole podcast on that. But we talked about mastering the sounds, and just for time sensitivity here, let's talk about mastering the vocab here. Idioms, slang, phrasal verbs. What does that level of mastery look like in English learners, and how do they get there? I'll ask Mr. V here, because Mr. V is Mr. Vocabulary. Mr. Ethan here. Let's hear it.
- [47:36]
B
I learned that, by the way, when I was going through the old episodes. Oh, yeah. Ethan has a new nickname. Another nickname. Cool.
- [47:42]
A
It's not that new, but, yeah. I think one of the biggest pain points that most learners feel is when you get in a conversation and you know that you've learned a word that you want to use, but it's not coming to you in that moment. And that's a huge frustration. This has to do with that we have passive and active vocabulary when we're learning a language. And even in our native language, we understand so much more than we actually have available to us to use when we're speaking. And this is probably why, you know, we don't speak like. Like when you're reading a book, there's, like, all this beautiful language and stuff in the book, but when we speak, we're using more or less the same thousand words like 95% of the time or something like that. So. But there are ways to move when you're learning a language, you obviously need to be getting more and more of these words in your active vocabulary. So there are ways to make those more available to you. And one really great way is through spaced repetition technology, which basically works along with the way memory works. So the way memory works basically is the first time when we're learning something, we need to see it many times over a short period of time, but then it starts being transformed into long term memory. And so you can go longer before seeing it without forgetting it. So spaced repetition technology will work in the same way that it'll. You'll, for example, have a word in there and then you have the definition. So it'll first show you the word and you have to think of, okay, what does this word mean again? And it'll show you then again, maybe later the same day, and then it'll show you again the next day, as long as you're remembering it each time. But then those spaces will get larger and larger. Then it's a week, then it's a month, then it's several months because you're remembering it better and better. So using technology like Anki, like memrise, that use this sort of system. And we're Also on the RealLife English app, we're adding a spaced repetition vocabulary studying as well.
- [49:37]
C
It's interesting. Fifteen, 17 years ago, when I was first traveling, learning Spanish in Mexico, I spent a year traveling to Mexico. I just left my life in the United States to travel to Mexico. And so I had this huge bag of flashcards that I created. I created these little flashcards. On one side it would be, for example, the word for table is just an example, right? In Spanish and in English on the other side, right? So I'd have like thousands of cards, like my backpack as I go around, like. And I looked at these later and it was incredible. Like, I had all these memories in them too, because I remembered exactly when I created that flashcard. Because I always had like a notepad, right? A notepad. I was taking notes when I was in conversations my friend used. My friends used to like make lots of comments because I'd always be learning, you know, I was like learning in the conversation. I'd be taking notes, I'd be curious, you know, I'd be asking, they'd be teaching me. I use my friendships as like teaching mechanisms. But anyway, that's it. So this is a digitalized version of this on the App. So we're having these conversations. I don't know how many, like new words you've learned here in this conversation. But today, like, we're not doing the. Actually we're building flashcards for this episode that we're going to release soon. So our team is making flashcards, 30 to 40 flashcards per episode that you can go and learn and repeat and make these part of your long term memory. So it's an infallible way to master the vocabulary.
- [51:05]
A
What does infallible mean?
- [51:06]
C
Infallible means without error. Because if you think about it, the system is always going to introduce the word as long as you don't know it. Right. So if you just keep clicking, no, I don't know this yet. No, I don't know it yet. You're going to keep going until you learn it. And if you only sort of know it, then it's going to keep introducing it to it. It's only until you say I really know this well that it's going to stop showing you that word again.
- [51:31]
A
And like Justin was mentioning about having flashcards in Spanish and going back and actually having memories attached to those. There's lots of things that you can learn about memory, but I mean, that's one thing is attaching them to things that are memorable, which can be an experience. It can be something that makes you laugh. Like maybe it reminds you of some word in your native language or a couple of words together and you can think of a whole situation. Maybe you're a good artist or something, so you can actually draw a picture. So thinking of these things that can help you to make them more easier to remember.
- [52:02]
B
Yeah. I think the word here is emotion. Right. Like, you know, if you can attach some sort of emotional feeling. Right. To the word you're trying to memorize, very likely you will remember it. Yeah. That's why they say music is very powerful, for example, any kind of art. Right. Because it plays with your emotion. So if you learn a word with a song, there are high chances that you will remember that more easily.
- [52:24]
C
This is like goes back to living your English. Right. Because if you enjoy it, that emotion is going to help you learn more. But it also connects to kind of the next fundamental of vocabulary is like collocation because there are kind of like emotional meanings and repetitions in the culture. How would you describe thiago? How would you describe collocation?
- [52:43]
B
So collocations are basically groups of words that go together in a language. So for example, overnight success, that's a collocation. Oh, this video was an overnight success. So this word overnight collocates with success. In other words, it is used frequently in the language.
- [53:01]
A
Yeah. It's funny because when you learn a collocation, these are really important because you'll find these words so often together and can help you sound a lot more natural when you speak.
- [53:10]
C
It's like you're not incorrect. For example, if you say, like, oh, I'm going to create goals, you're not incorrect. From a collocation point of view. From a cultural point of view, it's actually correct. But it's easier for a native speaker to understand. Set goals. I'm going to set goals because this is the common collocation that we use because it's just culturally accepted. The rule became, because so many people used it. This is what we. This is what we use. And then it makes it just easier in conversation if you know the collocations because you. You don't need to think so much, and the other person doesn't need to think so much because they could just sort of fill in the blanks in the. In the communication. Right?
- [53:43]
B
Yeah. And it makes it somewhere natural.
- [53:44]
C
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So in space, repetition, passive and active vocabulary, collocation. These are some of the elements of the advanced levels of vocabulary. But this is turning into a long podcast. Mastery is such a deep topic. We can go into mastering the structure, the grammar, which is really important. Learning the rules like a pro, so we can break them like an artist. Right. Because you can't really reach mastery unless you have that structure. There's cultural fluency as well. Ethan and Kase did a really good episode on this recently. Really good show on this. And really it's like to. To. To master the language, you have to be very sensitive to not just like native cultures. Right. But. But other cultures besides the native language. Right. So really connecting to the world and having relationships, getting to know people all around the world. This is important in a personal and in a business sense. But that's pretty much an overview of mastering the sounds. We've been speaking for quite a while now, but, yeah, cultural fluency, this is something that if you. Going back to the concept of those three circles, so you have the live speak and master. Those three circles overlap, but there is an overlapping part in the middle where all of them overlap, and that really is mastery. It's not just mastery of the technical skills of living your English or speaking it or knowing the vocabulary and the pronunciation and all of this. It's really what you develop. Who you become in that process, it's becoming a global citizen. So how would you articulate that, Ethan? The next step, the next podcast we're going to do on the Real Life way. This is a really high level overview here of the method. But what does that mastery look like in the grand sense?
- [55:20]
A
Yeah, true mastery, I think is to go beyond the borders of your, of your physical location, beyond the borders of your thinking, and to become that confident, natural global citizen. You know, someone who's able to use their English for a higher purpose and for ultimately making the world a better place to live in whatever way that
- [55:41]
C
you're doing that, like going back to really that question on the mindset, it's like English is the doorway, right? English is the doorway to what? Well, it's the doorway to your greatest life. Yeah, it's improving your life, improving your conditions, living a better life for you, your family, your loved ones. Right. If you get to the point in self development where you recognize the importance of developing, realizing the best version of yourself, that best version of yourself is you start developing yourself, you start becoming a better person, you have better impact professionally, you want to make the world a better place. And then you ask yourself the question, well, can I be my best self if I'm not a great English speaker, if I'm not a competent English speaker? It's really hard if you're not a competent English speaker to be like your best self because generally, like you're monolingual. Actually, I won't say that because you could be monolingual, right? And you can be a great person. So you can be a person who's living a great life. But you have to ask yourself that question. So you know, what is your best life? Is it to be a monolingual, only speak your native language? Or is it to be bilingual or multilingual, to speak English? Be confident, natural, English speaking, global citizen? I think it goes beyond just your life. I think we all look at the world today, we all look at all the issues that are happening. The world is increasingly polarized, the technology is improving, but the results, we're destroying the planet. Lots of existential risks. And there's a big question mark, how long humanity is going to survive. In some sense, the solution to that is for us to become global citizens, for more people to think on a global level. And English can be that doorway to making the world a better place. So right now there are four billion people online, four and a half billion, something like that. And more and more people are coming online in the next few years, in the next 10 years, the next decade. And as those people come online, they can come online to social media and the polarization and the difficulty, or they can come online to a global consciousness where we can work together to solve these issues that we have. So in a big sense, we believe that creating a world beyond borders is together solving the world's biggest problems.
- [57:50]
B
Awesome.
- [57:51]
A
So hopefully you guys are excited to listen to that episode coming up in a couple weeks. But until then, thanks so much for joining us here on the RealLife English podcast and we look forward to seeing you soon. 1, 2, 3. Ah
- [58:05]
B
yeah.
- [58:13]
A
Hey again, I hope you enjoyed today's lesson. Don't be a stranger. You can find all the notes like vocabulary, links and more for this lesson on our blog@reallifeglobal.com and connect with us and on Instagram@reallife.english for even more fun English recommendations. Do you want to continue your learning and get confident fluent English? Then I have a couple great recommendations for you. First of all, check out our YouTube channel learn English with TV series where you can have fun learning to understand fast speaking natives with your favorite movies series and more without getting lost, without missing the jokes and without subtitles. Second, if you like our podcast then our real life Native Immersion course is perfect for you. It is the next best thing to studying abroad in an English speaking country. Try it for free with our three part power learning series. Just go to reallifeglobal.com pod to sign up. Finally, if you are enjoying our podcast then please assist us in helping more people go beyond the classroom and live their English. You can do this by sending a link to this podcast to a friend or by leaving us a five star review wherever you are listening. We might even shout you out on the podcast. Stay healthy and safe and I look forward to seeing you next week. Oh yeah,