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EZRA LEVANT | A feature interview with the Conservative Party's immigration critic, Michelle Rempel Garner
00:27:37
Tonight, on The Ezra Levant Show, a new Abacus Research poll landed with a thud for the political class: Conservatives and Liberals are deadlocked overall, their leaders viewed almost identically. But buried in the numbers is a canyon-sized gap on one issue that actually decides elections ... immigration. On that file, Pierre Poilievre commands nearly 60 per cent support, while Mark Carney limps along at under 20. The message is obvious: when Conservatives talk immigration, they win.
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- [00:01]
A
Hello, my friends. Very special feature interview with Michelle Rempelgarner, the Conservative Party's immigration critic. They asked her about remigration and deportations. You're going to want to watch her answers on those. But first, let me invite you to get the video version of this podcast is called Rebel News Plus. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com, click subscribe and it's yours for eight bucks a month. That might not seem like a lot of money to you, but boy, it adds up for us. That's rebelnewsplus.com tonight, a feature interview with the Conservative Party's immigration critic. I think she says some new things that she hasn't said before. It's December 17th and this is the Ezra Levant Show. Shame on you, you censorious bug. Well, my favorite part, Pollster Abacus Research led by David Coletto came up with a very interesting poll showing that the Conservatives and Liberals are in an exact dead heat. The exact same number of Canadians support each party. In fact, the favorable and disfavorableness of the two party leaders is remarkably similar, too. But there was a very interesting graph in the latest poll that showed a chasm between the parties on key issues. And the issue in which Pierre Poliev has the support of nearly 60% of Canadians, whereas Mark Carney is favored by only 18% is that of immigration. In other words, if Pierre Poliev is talking about other things, he's fighting an uphill battle. But if he's talking about immigration, that's a winner. It may be controversial with the media party, but ordinary Canadians love it. Well, Pierre Poliev, since the election, has been getting firmer and firmer on the subject. And I'm delighted to have with us the official opposition immigration critic, Michelle Rempel Garney, who joins us now via Zoom. Thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.
- [02:05]
B
Thanks for having me, as always.
- [02:07]
A
Well, it's nice to see you. And I saw you at an event where you and other Conservative MPs were talking about the abuse of the temporary foreign worker project. How is that going? Has the public sentiment turned on the idea of temporary foreign workers? I think people are realizing that they're not specialists, they're people taking entry level jobs. That's my hunch. What's your observation?
- [02:31]
B
I think I'd take it up maybe to 100,000 foot view and just say that. I think that where the Canadian public is on immigration is that they understand that immigration can work if the levels are set with the ability of Canada's social and economic infrastructure to keep up with the levels. So specifically I'm thinking of things like housing, health care and jobs. So what you're talking about with the temporary foreign worker program is one area of immigration that has impacted job availability in Canada. So we've seen over the last 10 years not just the temporary foreign worker program itself, but also other streams of temporary foreign work like the international student program really go up to levels that are completely unsustainable. This is something that economists across the political divide have noted and it's exacerbated the youth jobs crisis because we're increasing the availability of temporary foreign work at a time when we're seeing technological disruptions and those first opportunities for youth disappearing. So it was kind of a no brainer to announce that we would support the abolition of that program, replacing it with something that would address legitimately hard to find seasonal fill, seasonal labor in the agricultural sectors. But we've, you know, we also announced a lot more policy than that this fall. And I think that that's a large part about why you're seeing public confidence in the Conservative party when it comes to managing immigration far, far better than the Liberals could.
- [04:04]
A
You know, the beneficiaries of mass cheap labor are obviously large employers. I mean, not all of them are doing it. But if you are a major employer, you like cheap labor, it saves you a few percent. And frankly, on the other side, your landlord property developer keeps jacking up prices like it's a win win for big corporations. And I know I'm sounding like a Marxist now, but seriously, you're not. I think that Mark Carney is thinking like a turbo capitalist. He's not thinking about ordinary Canadians. He's thinking of them as consumers of goods and services or cheap labor. He's not thinking of them as Canadians.
- [04:44]
B
I actually challenge you on that. It's actually the temporary foreign worker program is a fundamentally non conservative program because it inserts the government into the price of wages. Right. So when you have an endless supply of temporary foreign work, what ends up happening is you end up suppressing wages. It's a direct government intervention on the ability of wages to keep up with the demand for labor. And so it's fundamentally a far left policy and it's one that we've seen have massive social implications because it's not just about the loss of jobs for Canadian youth in particular, but it also treats the people who come to Canada like an indentured labor class Canada. That's not how it's supposed to work in Canada. And you have all these lobby groups, Ezra, you know about them, that come into Ottawa and they ask for all these extra foreign labor, do exactly what you talked about, suppress wages, increase profits, and frankly not have to invest in things like productivity. So it's long past time that these programs were abolished or severely reined in. And anybody who's making the case that the Canadian government shouldn't be betting on Canadian youth first and foremost, I just don't buy it. So there needs to be change.
- [06:01]
A
Now, I have a friend who has been a Tim Hortons franchise owner for many years. And when I bumped into him recently, he was quite mad at me for picking on Tim Hortons and the temporary foreign workers program. He said something to me that did ring a bell. He said a lot of the people who work at Tim Hortons and other places, they're not temporary foreign workers, they're foreign international students who are allowed to work. So I think he was making a distinction without a difference. These are still foreign people who are driving down wages and supplanting Canadians. They're just in a different program. I think he thought that distinction would mollify me. I don't think it does. I don't know the exact number of international students in Canada, but it's around a million last I checked. So if you've got like, I think that's more than the foreign workers. So it's actually probably a larger and bigger issue. In fact, I don't even know how many of these students who are working are legit students. A lot of them come with obvious diploma mills. So just buying a diploma, can you talk a little bit about foreign students who either do attend school but spend a lot of their time working, or really it was a fake school that they just paid to get them in the country?
- [07:14]
B
Well, you're absolutely right. You shouldn't be mollified to hear that. So just a little bit of context for your listeners. What happened was the Liberals about five years ago, four or five years ago, they decided to completely juice the number of foreign student permits that Canada issued on a year to year basis. You even had the now Justice Minister who, you know, has a track record of failure, Sean Frazier, as the immigration minister, he even came out and bragged about raising the number of foreign student permits to the highest levels ever in Canada. I don't know if you know this, Ezra, but there's actually over 3 million temporary residents in Canada right now. It's close to 8% of the Canadian population. If you compare that to 10 years ago, that was a number that was. I think it was under 1%. I'd have to check. But it was certainly far lower than that. So the point I'm trying to make is that it was a deliberate decision by the Liberal government to increase these foreign student permits, you know, they made. There are certain colleges, particularly on Ontario, that just made absolute bank off of these kids. And like, let's talk about the humanity of the situation for these kids too. A lot of times these are people who come to Canada paying their entire life savings or their family life savings. They end up living under a bridge. We're in a house with like 20 other kids. There was all these ads about, you know, trading sexual services to get rent. And meanwhile, these college presidents, I had a couple of them in front of our committee. It didn't go well for them. We were just like, oh yeah, everything's fine, it's not a big deal. So this is the Liberal's fault. We've been advocating for, of course, far lower numbers there. But there's other problems, Ezra, that we're going to see in the next several years because of this sort of big bulge, this big influx that the Liberals allowed. So, for example, I asked the Liberals six months ago and they still haven't answered. There are three million temporary residents in the country. They're temporary. Their visas are about to expire. How are you going to get them to leave? No answer. And what we've seen is an increase in.
- [09:14]
A
In.
- [09:16]
B
Asylum claims, bogus asylum claims being made by people who have expiring work visas. So, you know, this is why myself, my colleagues in the Conservative Party, we undertook a series. I think it's the most substantive immigration reform package that has been announced in decades in Canada over the last several months, particularly with regard to the asylum system, lowering overall immigration levels, dealing with noncitizens convicted of serious crime, ensuring that those. Those persons in those situations would be deported. There needs to be wholesale reform. And that's what the focus of our fall session was. And I think, because as early put that policy out, I think that's why you're seeing the uptake from the Canadian public on trusting the Conservative Party with immigration vis a vis the Liberals.
- [10:05]
A
It's one thing to cut down the numbers of people still coming in, but that sounds like more growth in the United States. They've really cut down the number of people coming in. They've reduced asylum claims, I think, to 15,000, 1,5000. It's multiple times that in Canada. And they've indicated that they're going to prefer Boer farmers from South Africa who are the subject of a racial purge by the South African government. So very narrow Assam claims. And the US President has several times used the word remigration. And that word is used a little bit in Scandinavia. There are some countries that pay migrants to go home. I saw the United nations the other day say that 1 million Syrian migrants have moved back. Syrian refugees, because the war is over, the sanctions are gone. So you have a million Syrians that have gone home. They're expecting another million. Is it time for Canada to say, okay, not only are we going to stop inward migration, but we're going to, we're going to get these folks who no longer have the right to be here out. And in the case of maybe the Syrians, well, here's a free flight and maybe $5,000 cash. Go back and rebuild your homeland. It's safe now, you can go home. Do we have the courage to say, okay, we've served you and the crisis is over, at least in Syria, go home?
- [11:40]
B
Well, I think we have to start with the position of stating a fact, which I know, that there are people who watch your show who have migrated to Canada playing by the rules and have invested in the country by bettering themselves and bettering the country while they do it. They're law abiding citizens who are here to build Canada. And those are people who obviously these are the people that the consensus for Canadian immigration which the Liberals broke is built around. So the question then becomes, what about the people who don't play by the rules or who might want to abuse the system? And that's where I think Canadian public policy needs to be focused. It's where I've been focused with some spicy stuff this year, for example. Right. So I have a private member's bill. I have, I put forward multiple amendments to the Liberals Border Bill, Bill C12 to ensure that non citizens who are convicted of serious crime that they're immediately deported like they're right now. People in those situations can endlessly appeal their deportation. There was a story in B.C. this week about people who are convicted of serious, or, sorry, charged with serious extortion charges and then able to appeal or to claim asylum. That's insane. The Liberals, of course they voted against our policy measures, but we're putting forward policy measures to ensure that if somebody's not playing by the rules in Canada, committing serious crimes like extortion, sexual assault, of course they shouldn't be here. Of course they should be on a plane off the country and Newcomers to Canada who play by the rules agree with that. The other thing, Ezra, is you talked about the asylum system. You know, you are very familiar with the politics of the United Kingdom and you've watched the migration issue there. Very much descend out of control and a lot of it is because of the abuse of the UK's asylum system in Canada. I don't know if you know this. We actually had more, both by real numbers and by percentage of population asylum claims in Canada than the U.K. did during a similar period of time. So we have to stop. And we know a majority or a bulk of those cases are bogus and those are people who are incentive to make bogus asylum claims because it allows them to extend temporary visas or come into the country through fraudulent means and then claim government benefits. So conservatives this fall, we're not just talking about this, we're taking action. I put forward amendments to Bill C12 to ensure that people who make bogus asylum claims, people that have failed asylum claims, can't claim federal benefits beyond the most urgent emergency health care. That's not the case right now. People get a hotel, housing, health benefits. The Canadians don't get like mental health services. Right. I could talk to you for hours about this, but I think what needs to be clear is that where the liberals have failed and that there needs to be immediate action is that people who have broken the rules and like non citizens that have, you know, been convicted of serious crimes. Yes, you need to leave. I shouldn't have to say things like people who. Non citizens who have raped little girls should be deported from Canada. That's a no brainer. But then also we need to ensure that the system's not being abused so that people who are playing by the rules are prioritized. But also at the same time to be very clear to your listeners that the numbers are set to a point where they haven't been, which is like the numbers have been set to a point where housing can't keep up, healthcare can't keep up, and jobs can't keep up.
- [15:11]
A
So.
- [15:12]
B
So, you know, I'm proud of our work this fall and I think the fact that again, as you mentioned, the front end of your show, you're now seeing a majority of Canadians see our policy as the right way to go on that. I think it's indicative that we're on the right path.
- [15:26]
A
If you add up the number of people who their visa in some way has expired, they were here for a certain period of study, that's over. They were here for a temporary Foreign job, that's over. So there's no doubt, there's no, there's no accusation that has not yet been adjudicated. Perhaps they're an asylum claimant who has been rejected. So if you add up people for whom it's already been decided they are not allowed to be here, how many of those people are there in Canada? How many? How many?
- [15:59]
B
Okay, so something that will startle you is, I don't know, this is something that I'm trying to get.
- [16:03]
A
Is it a million? Is it 2 million?
- [16:05]
B
I can tell you what I do know. There have been reports, for example by the Globe and Mail that there's at least 500,000 undocumented. Like, like people with expired visas or people that should leave that are definitely in the country. Then you have that whole 3 million person who have expiring visas coming up that the Liberals don't have a plan. So they're going to add to that number. Right. And then on top of that, there was a story right before the House of Commons rose that showed that Statistics Canada actually undercounted the number of temporary residents in the country or non citizens by close to 38% in the last census. So, like you asked me such a good question. But the problem is the government isn't even really tracking this. Right. So how can we possibly match this to jobs or health care if they're not? Or figure out removals of people who have no legal reason to be here if we don't even know what those numbers are? So this is why I amended the bill. We tried to amend the bill to have better reporting requirements to the House of Commons. But yes, I agree, it's crazy.
- [17:07]
A
So, so what I'm hearing from you and I, and I think I knew this, is that it could, it's certainly hundreds of thousands. Yes, it could actually be millions who have no legal basis to be here. We were relying on them to self deport, which is sort of funny, it's happening in the States because I think people think, I don't want to be arrested by ice, I'll go. It's happening in some Scandinavian countries that paid actually in some cases much more than 5,000 bucks to go home. But if I'm just going to pick a random number on the low end, let's say half a million, and I know it's a lot larger than that, would you feel comfortable as a conservative saying we have to deport half a million people?
- [17:50]
B
Well, if people have no legal reason to be in the country, then they have to be Removed. I mean, the immigration system doesn't work. What's the point of having an immigration system or a temporary permit if people don't leave at the end of that permit? Right. It's no longer a temporary permit. And this shouldn't be controversial to say if somebody is invited into the country on a temporary basis, at the end of that period of time, they have to leave, right?
- [18:19]
A
Well, it'll be very controversial.
- [18:21]
B
No, no, because, like, think about this. If that doesn't happen, then that this is the sort of policy that completely undermines the public's confidence that the immigration system is functional. And right now, I'm glad in Canada that people aren't pointing fingers necessarily at immigrants.
- [18:40]
A
Right.
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B
Like, it's a very precipitous. Like, we're right on the edge of that. And I'm glad that's not happening. People are pointing the finger at the Liberal government, but the Liberal government has a duty to address this issue. They can't just, you know, turn a blind eye to it and then say, okay, well, we're just going to allow people to make bogus asylum claims. Right, so that they can stay in the country or work in probably inhumane conditions under the table where they're being exploited. The system has to be brought under control. And that's why I've been asking these questions in the House of Commons.
- [19:14]
A
If we make the number even lower, let's call it 365,000, that would be a thousand people a day, enough for several large aircraft. Now, I think that's quite doable, but it would require resolve, it would require tasking, probably, you know, expanding the. A particular police force, whether it's something like ICE in the States or maybe the RCMP or border. It would like. There's a lot of logistics involved, I mean, to remove them to where and how, like, that's a big undertaking. And I can imagine a lot of people objecting legal challenges. You have Mayor Chao in Toronto declare the city a sanctuary city. She's probably already done that. Does the Conservative Party of Canada have the will and the steely nerve to look down the barrel of the regime media who will call you racist, call you xenophobic, call you Trump? Like, if you actually tried to put into action even a fraction of the deportations necessary, and I picked a very low number.
- [20:19]
B
I've already been called all of those things for years. I was the first one to say that it was insane for them to welcome to Canada tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people illegally across the border at Wroxham Road. That's what that was one of the main things that led to the loss of immigration consensus. This is something conservatives have been advocating for for 10 years in spite of all the things that happened to you. Because at the end of the day, if you want the immigration system to work, people leaving at the end of their visas is a key part of that. So like, just as another proof point on this, it was the first, my first, I think it was my first question to Lena Diab. There's been a lot of terrible immigration ministers, but she's right up there after the election was there are untold number of people, like you said, at least 500,000 people in the country that need to be removed. What's your plan to do that? I still don't have an answer to that question. But it's something that the liberals have to get on and this is why we've been unrelenting on that issue. So, you know, I think the proof is in like, in terms of asking for a common sense, humane rule following process that's already in law. Like Ezra, we're not asking for anything that's not already in the law. We're just asking for the law to be enforced. Like I think, I don't think that beyond like a far left fringe, there aren't like this is a pretty normative position in Canada.
- [21:51]
A
You've been very generous with your time. I have just one last question, and it's a little bit personal. It's about the neighborhood I live in. I live in Toronto in a fairly Jewish neighborhood. And every weekend for about a year now, a group of. And they're foreign nationals or at least they certainly that's what they say when I ask them where they're from. These are not folks born in Canada. I don't know their exact immigration status. Some of them are more famous than others because they've been arrested for various crimes. But every weekend for more than a year, a pro Hamas group, and I'm not exaggerating, they support Hamas. They say so, has been shouting at local Jews with PA systems blocking. They go for walks in residential neighborhoods screaming at any Jews they find it's truly shocking. But to me the most shocking part of it is that these are people who are either still guests of our country as temporary workers or students, or maybe they become naturalized, I don't know. But they're not Canadians. They're people who have come to Canada making certain promises to be good citizens. And either before they've been naturalized or afterwards, they're tearing the community apart. And after the shootings in Australia, I'm even more worried that something terrible will happen. Do you have anything to say about people who are not yet naturalized, who participate in hateful, if not necessarily criminal conduct? Like you already talked about criminals, but even someone who's not breaking the law but is still spewing venom, is that someone you would consider perhaps revoking their privileges to be here if they were not locked into the country as citizens?
- [23:35]
B
Well, if you'll indulge me in a little bit of a rant, I'm going to start with saying something that I think is really important, which is, I think part of the problem is the fact that there is an entrenched anti Semitism and hate in senior Canadian institutions that are perpetuated by Canadians. I'm talking about academic institutions, senior levels of the public service, where you see, you know, like, you just see blatant anti Semitism, you know, like they almost appointed, you know, somebody who had some pretty sketchy words to the Human Rights tribunal, right. Like you. We like there's all sorts of instances of that. But this is important because, you know, Ezra, you talk about non citizens and I think what you're getting at is the issue of integration, right? If you come to Canada, what are you integrating into? What are the behave the behaviors and norms that Canadians expect newcomers to Canada to adhere to? And if you go into the Citizenship guide, it actually says in the Citizenship Guide, so this is the liberal citizenship guide, that newcomers to Canada are expected to abandon any violent or extreme ideology as well as hateful prejudices. That's an expectation that we have for people coming to the country. So then the question then becomes, how are the people that are Canadians, how are like that are in these senior positions that hold these anti Semitic beliefs, how are they allowed to allow those beliefs to perpetuate and proliferate to the point where we're not enforcing laws that allows anybody newcomer alike to get away with some of the behavior that you're talking about. And that is at the heart of this question here. For me, the law is clear. We have laws for newcomers that they're supposed to adhere to, and if they don't adhere to them, they're supposed to be removed. But what happens, Ezra, is you have law enforcement, senior politicians, academics that say, oh no, no, no, no, no, that shouldn't be enforced. And then in the judiciary you have all of this leniency. So for if it's miraculously enforced and there's a conviction, there's endless appeal opportunities to happen. And the end result is that the end result and the end message to newcomers is don't worry about that section. And we were just joking. And to me, that is anti. Like, that's fundamental to Canadian. Like, it's antithetical to Canadian pluralism, to the respect for the rule of law, and it's antithetical to the concept that if you come to Canada, you enjoy a lot of privileges, but you have a lot of responsibilities, too. And I think after a decade of liberal post nationalism, we have to start about talking about the value of Canadian citizenship and integrating into fundamental aspects of Canadian pluralism, like respect for the rule of law. I just want to. I'll just close with my rant with this. The level of anti Semitism that we've seen in Canada, perpetuated across and normalized by politicians, academic leaders, journalists, is disgusting. And, you know, there aren't strong enough words to condemn it. Now we need action. And this is why a lot of the policies that I've put forward, I forced the Liberals to vote on this year, have been related to restoring those principles. But the fight continues, and it's a fight that I am very willing to take on.
- [26:59]
A
Well, I'm very grateful to you for your time and for your candor, and I look forward to following you in this battle, and hopefully we can catch up again in the new year.
- [27:07]
B
Thanks for your time.
- [27:08]
A
Thank you very much. There she is, Michelle Rample Garner, the immigration critic for the official opposition. That's our show for today. Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World headquarters, to you at home. Good night. And keep fighting for freedom. Keep fighting for freedom. Shame on you, you censorious bug. Sam.