EZRA LEVANT | EU Declares War on Elon Musk and Free Speech Itself

Podcast: Rebel News Podcast
Host: Ezra Levant
Guest: Alan Bokari (Managing Director, Foundation for Freedom Online)
Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the escalating battle between Elon Musk’s X (formerly Twitter) and the European Union over the EU’s first use of the Digital Services Act (DSA), resulting in a historic €120 million fine against X. Host Ezra Levant is joined by tech policy expert Alan Bokari for a deep-dive interview unpacking the politics of tech regulation, the role of censorship, the EU’s motives, and America’s shifting response to these developments against the backdrop of growing populist movements in Europe and the US.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Elon Musk vs. The EU: The DSA Fine

• EU’s First DSA Fine: The European Commission is imposing a €120 million fine on X for alleged breaches including a lack of transparency and improper implementation of “blue check marks” and ad repository access ([02:21-03:33]).
• Ezra’s Framing: "The European Union doesn't really have a tech industry of its own, but it certainly extracts wealth from America." ([03:33])
• US Diplomatic Pushback: Strong, coordinated responses from US officials signal America won’t tolerate what it views as EU overreach ([09:38-10:37]).

The Political Battle Over Tech & Speech

• Tech as a Battleground: Bokari emphasizes, “Tech would be the political battleground. It's the free speech battleground. It's the freedom battleground.” ([00:00])
• Legacy Media Displaced: Social media platforms, particularly X, now dominate as sources of news, disrupting establishment power and control over debate ([04:50]).
• Pendulum Toward Freedom: Bokari notes post-2016 tech and government collusion to contain populism, but says the pendulum is now swinging back toward free speech ([05:58-07:01]).

Why the EU Targets X (and Not TikTok)

• Selective Enforcement: The EU fined X but praised TikTok (owned by China), provoking accusations of hypocrisy ([12:11-13:14]).
• Populist Threat: European populist right movements are powered by young people active on X. EU bureaucrats see free speech as a danger to their power, while TikTok is not pushing right-wing ideas and is seen as less threatening ([13:14-14:42]).
• Bokari: "From their perspective, China is not nearly as big of a threat...as the populist right is." ([13:14])

Free Speech: American vs. European Perspectives

• Diplomatic Showdown: US diplomat Sarah Rogers publicly highlights how free speech is criminalized in Europe, posting provocative examples of Europeans jailed for speech ([15:47-17:38]).
• Ezra: “There's a difference between being impolite and being illegal.” ([14:42])
• Bokari on US Policy Shift: "The State Department has really been exemplary...they've really made free speech a priority and it's clearly becoming a priority now for American public diplomacy, which is a massive sea change to previous administrations." ([18:06])

The Mechanisms of Censorship

• Blue Checks & Revenue: The EU complains that X’s open blue check system undermines transparency. Bokari argues this system reduces X’s reliance on advertiser revenue, making it resilient to boycotts and less susceptible to regulatory leverage ([21:28-22:07]).
• Data Access Demands: EU’s demand for researcher access to advertising and user data is about facilitating pressure and censorship, allowing third-party "civil society" groups to build hit lists and pressure advertisers ([22:07-25:32]).
• Disinformation Research: Many “independent” researchers are actually funded by governments and act as de facto enforcers to monitor and stifle dissenting speech ([23:00-25:03]).
• Bokari’s Warning: "If researchers don't have access to this data, then the entire global censorship machine is blind." ([25:32])

Outsourcing and International Collusion

• US Collusion with EU: The previous (Biden) administration actively collaborated on censorship policy and the DSA’s formation ([26:44]).
• Strategic Outsourcing: Housing censorship operations in Europe shields them from US transparency laws and public scrutiny ([28:12]).

US Policy: Sanctions, Visa Bans, and Personalized Pushback

• Sanctions on Censors: The Trump administration is now denying visas and entry to prominent censorship advocates (e.g., the Center for Countering Digital Hate) ([29:58-31:19]).
• Ezra’s Advocacy: “Ban a guy like that from going to America, it's gonna sting.” ([28:12])
• Bokari: “These are the same people who would be happy to cut Americans or Europeans or their own citizens off from bank accounts...simply because of speech and political opinions that they don't like. So it's perfectly reasonable ... to impose some level of consequence on those same people." ([34:33])

Who’s Leading America’s Pro-Free Speech Response?

• Key Figures
  • Sarah Rogers (US Ambassador to EU): Outspoken defender of American speech values ([35:57]).
  • Darren Beatty: US Institute of Peace.
  • JD Vance: Noted for public criticism of foreign censorship laws.
• Trade Policy as a Weak Spot: Bokari urges more US focus on using trade policy to combat censorship oversight internationally ([36:50-37:04]).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Levant, on EU hypocrisy: "They specifically said, we're not going to fine TikTok, which as of today...is still owned by Communist China.... So even as they condemn and censor Elon Musk, they toot their horn to the fact that they're cooperating with the Communist Party of China." ([12:11])
• Bokari, on the populist threat: “What's really troubling, I think, to European political elites is that most of the support for populism, their biggest supporters...actually comes from young people around the continent. So time is not on their side.” ([13:14])
• Sarah Rogers (US Diplomat), on European censorship:
  "So, as I tweeted a few moments ago, a German woman notoriously received a harsher jail sentence than a convicted rapist after the woman called the rapist, quote, a disgraceful pig.... In a free society, that shouldn't happen. So which is it, Mr. Braunstetter? Is there no censorship in Europe or do we all have to follow your rules?” ([15:47-17:38])
• Bokari, on censorship researchers: “They essentially function like a third party private sector stasi...if researchers don't have access to this data, then the entire global censorship machine is blind.” ([22:07-25:32])
• Levant, on using visa bans as pressure: “If you want to prick at what's important to these Europeans, it's their cosmopolitan jet setting ways.... You ban them from entering the United States and you've hurt them morally.” ([28:12])
• Bokari, advocating sanctions on censors: “The censorship industry has a much more direct impact on American citizens. It's resulted in probably hundreds of thousands of Americans being banned on social media platforms. So it directly impacts Americans far more than any Russian oligarch does.... It's almost like us or them.” ([34:33])

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |---|---| | 00:00 - 01:21 | Levant intros Alan Bokari and frames tech as the new battleground | | 02:21 - 03:33 | EU Commission announces historic €120 million fine against X under DSA | | 04:50 - 05:58 | Bokari explains the shift from legacy media to X and why EU wants control | | 05:58 - 07:01 | The populist right’s rise: Silicon Valley and media respond post-2016 | | 09:38 - 10:37 | Levant on the US government’s tough response to the EU action | | 12:11 - 13:14 | Levant exposes EU hypocrisy, comparing treatment of X and TikTok | | 13:14 - 14:42 | Bokari on why EU fears populism and youthful support for right-wing movements | | 15:47 - 17:38 | Sarah Rogers video: examples of criminalized speech in Europe | | 21:28 - 26:00 | Breakdown of EU’s three main complaints ("blue checkmarks", researcher data access, ad repository) and how they facilitate censorship | | 26:44 - 28:12 | US Trade policy’s complicity in the DSA and the outsourcing of censorship | | 29:58 - 31:33 | US visa bans and sanctions on foreign censors (focus on Center for Countering Digital Hate) | | 35:57 - 37:04 | Who in the Trump admin is fighting global censorship; call for stronger trade policy action |

Summary

This episode delivers a lively, at times combative, insider’s look at the global battle over free speech in the digital age. Through detailed analysis, Levant and Bokari paint the EU’s campaign against X as motivated more by fear of populism and loss of control than by legal or public safety necessity. American response is now hardening, with visa bans and diplomatic pressure joining public calls for transparent, resilient social platforms.

Bokari offers sharp, first-hand insights into the evolution of censorship mechanisms – especially the covert role of “independent” researchers and the collusion between Western governments. Levant presses for naming and personally sanctioning individuals driving censorship, arguing for a “personalized” pushback.

Listeners will come away with a thorough grasp of the politics and strategies shaping free speech battles in the US and Europe, and an understanding of how these fights are becoming both more personal and geopolitically consequential.

For more:

• Alan Bokari’s study and documentation: foundationforfreedomonline.com
• Notable US officials fighting global censorship: Sarah Rogers, Darren Beatty, JD Vance ([35:57])
• Recommended episode quotes and highlights: See section above