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Rebel News Podcast
EZRA LEVANT | Muslims reach critical mass in UK politics … is Canada next?
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A
Oh, hi everybody. You know, I like the uk, it's for historical reasons, but it's also for future reasons. I feel that's our destiny if we don't change our course. We're going to have a heavy duty talk with our friend Jack Hadfield today. He follows things very closely. One of the things he follows is the rise of Islamic politics. First it was within the Labour Party, now it's in the Green Party. But it's of such a critical mass that there are Muslim parties and Muslim candidates on their own who winning on a Gaza ticket, winning in city councils and local MP writings. Very interesting stuff. We'll go through it with Jack. But first let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of this podcast. I'm going to play about half a dozen videos in our interview and I really want you to see them, not just hear them. So go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. You know, we don't take any money from the government and it shows, so we rely on you and those subscriptions really help us pay the bills. Oh yeah, one more thing.
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B
Being a rebel today is simply being normal. So why not support normal news and look cool while doing it by buying yourself some rebel merch and more@rebelnewstore.com and you can save by using coupon code DREA10 when you do.
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C
You're listening to Rebel News podcast
- [01:24]
A
Foreign. Tonight. In the United Kingdom, Muslims have a critical mass and they're forming their own political movements. Is that Canada's future too? A feature conversation with our friend Jack Hadfield. It's May 7th and this is the Ezra Levant Show. Shame on you, you censori. Well, I always say I follow the United Kingdom not only because it is the mother country for Canada and all of our institutions were modeled on British institutions, from our Parliament to our common law to our belief in freedom of speech, by the way. But also because just as we follow in the footsteps of the United Kingdom historically, I regret to say we're following in their footsteps as they hurtle towards ruin, especially through mass immigration. And they are several years further down the road than we are. One of the interesting things is that they have such a large Islamic population now that in many districts, the Muslim activists no longer seek to piggyback or stow away, let's say in the Labour Party, but rather run in their own name. In districts where the Muslim vote is 30, 40, 50%, there's no need to borrow the jacket of the Labour Party or even the Green Party. And there are half a dozen MPs who ran on. I give Gazza your voice ticket. Very interesting stuff. So many things going on, including I think the best organized rebuttal to that hurtling ideology. Nigel Farage, now the leader of something called Reform uk, the founder of the Ukip party that successfully herded the Brexit vote through a referendum. He has been leading the polls for more than a year, actually. And the insurgents have not been the labor or traditional Conservative Party, but rather a radical Green Party on the left co led by a Jew and an Islamic extremist. It's quite a bizarre thing. Anyhow, you don't need to hear it from me. Let's talk to a man who follows British politics more closely than most. His name is Jack Hadfield. I have the pleasure of watching his citizen journalism either online or in person. Jack Hadfield, great to see you. Thanks for joining us.
- [03:50]
C
Yeah, thanks so much for having me on again.
- [03:52]
A
It's our pleasure. I don't think I did a good job of summing up things in the UK because it's frothing. There's so much going on at once. All of the trends that you've been covering, that we have covered for years are really hitting a critical mass, I think. Let's start with not just immigration, but the illegal migrants who tend to come across in little small boats. I understand that recently it hit the 200,000 mark. Is that accurate that people just get on boats, cross over the English Channel and they're set for life?
- [04:26]
C
Yeah, I mean that is the current system with what we have now. Certainly the labor government is trying to crack down on illegal migration because they recognize that obviously this is one reason why people have turned against them. And obviously the Conservatives is that this migration wave really took off under Tony Blair's leadership in 1997. And then obviously we've seen with the Boris wave as well under the Conservatives. So they're trying to tackle illegal migration. So Shabana Mahmood, who's the Home Secretary now, is trying to do a number of schemes on this, but none of them are working. For example, she tried to do a one in one out swap policy with the boat migrants with France taking people in who had links to Britain, etc. But that didn't even work and it's cost so much money. People have been coming in and back over anyway as soon as they come back to France or just hop on another boat. And I think overall, when it was paused recently, Britain ended up taking in like net three migrants. So we were up three people on this scheme that we pay hundreds of millions of pounds the French for. So the labor is trying to tackle this at the very least, but it's clearly not working at all.
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A
You know, you're much closer to it than me. But I am skeptical that the labor government actually wants to tackle it. I think they want to certainly tackle the perception that they're weak on migration, but I don't think they want to tackle it because it is basically replacing traditional British voters, who tend to be more conservative, with radical voters. It's basically the Zoran Mamdani method. How do you get a Islam oriented communist in power in New York City, a Jewish capitalist city, while you bring in millions of people from abroad who lack a connection or a history there? So I don't actually believe that the labor government wants to do anything about it. And you mentioned legal versus illegal migration. There's an enormous number of illegal migrants. Frankly, I think those are the easier ones to deal with or they could be just kick them out. But I think both the labor government and you mentioned the Boris wave, those are the migrants that came under the 14 years previous to the labor win. There's just a bigger problem with, quote, legal migration, isn't there? I mean legal, illegal, it still results in people in the UK who probably shouldn't be there.
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C
Yeah, I completely agree, but I would disagree with you on Labour not wanting to tackle it because I think it's true. Overall, yes, Labour did think by bringing in these migrants, they're all going to vote for us. But as you mentioned at the top of the show, they're not voting for Labour anymore. They're moving over to the Greens or a majority, I think a polarity at least. I think Five Pillars, which is a Muslim news site here in uk, polled their readership in terms of who they were voting for in the local elections. The biggest number, I think around 46% were voting for independent Muslim candidates. Down next, they weren't going to vote at all. And next, just after that, still with a good chunk would be voting for the Greens. Labour was much, much further down on this. So one, they have the electoral incentive now to actually work against the coalition that they built because they've now been abandoned. And then second, I think in a personal reason for Shabana Mahmood, for example, who is of Pakistani heritage herself as someone that's more to the right of the Labour Party, I think she sees the issue with the complete rapid mass migration in that someone who's come from a community that's been here for quite a few decades in sort of early multiculturalism. You know, when you have, you know, said 95, you know, 90 to 95% of the population being white British and 5 to 10% some other ethnic group, you know, it's kind of fine. But when demographic replacement gets on people's minds, there's going to be more of a turn against this. So I think Shabana Mahmood and some other people like that in the Labour Party realize perhaps for their own self preservation to enable themselves to continue to exist, to be an accepted part of the British society and community. She thinks we should then get a handle on legal migration because otherwise her community will become under more attacks and more scrutiny from the native population.
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A
You know, I saw just this morning an interview on radio with Zach Polanski. He's the nominal leader of the Green Party. He's nominally Jewish. I think he's about as Jewish as a ham sandwich. But, you know, he can say that he's descended from Jews and he's extremely anti Israel, to the point of, I think, being anti Semitic. Just the other day there were some terrorists that attacked some Jews on the street and police subdued them. And he criticized the police for subduing him. It was quite something. And he was on the radio because there's some local elections. So I'm not talking about for members of Parliament, but this is for, like, local town councils. And he was asked, is give Gaza your vote or lend your vote to Gaza really the right message for the Green Party in the city council election? But look at his answer to that here. I'll play the clip.
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D
Do you believe that Palestine is, to coin a phrase, on the ballot this Thursday?
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E
I think lots of things are on the ballot this Thursday.
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D
But is Palestine on the ballot this Thursday?
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E
I think it's one of the elements, as is the climate crisis, as is.
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D
What does it mean Palestine is on the ballot because. The reason I ask you is because your candidate for mayor of Lewisham says Palestine is on the ballot this Thursday. Haringey Green Party campaign launch video. You might think it'd be about bins. You might think it'd be about schools, hospitals. It might be about cleaning up the roads. It is a series of councillors saying, as a councillor, I will take all appropriate steps to uphold the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. Do you think council elections really should be about Palestine?
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E
I think they can be about all of those things. And I think what people have seen in this country is a genocide for two and a half years that our government are still arming, are still sharing intelligence with. And I think lots of people feel very strongly both about their local services, as they should do, and feel equally strongly about the fact that there's a reprehensible genocide happening and a vote.
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D
But the way they vote in local elections should be determined by their views of Israel and Palestine.
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E
I wouldn't tell anyone how their vote should be determined, but I think it's an element for lots of people in how they vote.
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D
And you think that will contribute to community cohesion, do you?
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E
I think yes.
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C
How?
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E
Because I think we shouldn't pit Jewish safety against a genocide in Gaza. That's conflating anti Semitism and criticism of the Israeli government. That's something Benjamin Netanyahu does regularly. And as a Jewish person, that makes me feel less safe.
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D
Sure, but there are lots of Jewish people who would say to you they feel unsafe if they feel that their counsellors are motivated first and foremost by Palestine. And if somebody gives that speech, for example, about Palestine being on the ballot, they are likely to think that. We looked, for example, at Barnett Greens, where one in seven residents identify as Jewish. And it includes in its manifesto the fact that you're standing up for Palestine. Do you think that's going to help?
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E
Well, I walk regularly on Palestinian marches with hundreds and hundreds, in fact, thousands of people, many of whom are Jewish. And there have been rabbis who have spoken out on this, too. I accept, though, there are Jewish people whose views are equally as valid who don't agree with those views. And I think the job of all of us who are in public life right now is to de. Escalate tensions.
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A
So, I mean, here you have. He sort of looks Jewish. His name is Zach Polanski. He actually made his name more ethnically sounding. He changed his name back to a more Jewish sounding name because he wanted to get that aura. But he's teamed up with a guy named Mothan Ali who dresses in full Pakistani garb. His wife is in the full ninja outfit. Like, not like, not even just a little hijab, the full face, obscuring. You know, I don't know how this party can stay together. How can you have a party led by an atheist Jew who goes to gay nightclubs and also led by a Pakistani extremist whose wife is not allowed to show her face in public. How is this? That's called the Green Party. Is that a stable molecule? It sounds like it's about to break apart.
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C
No, yeah, exactly. I mean, it won't Sorry, it will. But for now, as long as they're sort of united against Israel in general, which is a lot of people on the left, and certainly that's what unites a lot of these people in the Green Party now, the sort of anti Zionist, Communist leftist types who have that foreign policy position, along with obviously all the Muslims in the party as well. I'd probably say that's the one issue that is kind of the glue currently now on this leftist rainbow coalition. But like, as you said, you know, there is obviously a big difference between, you know, radical Islamist Muslims and, you know, lgbt, you know, trans supporting lot, because, you know, there's obviously a lot of Muslims who don't want, you know, trans nonsense in schools. And you've seen this, like in Britain on that debate. So, you know, it's not. It's quite a very fractious coalition overall.
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A
You know, I just wanted to play for you a quick clip because a few weeks ago there was a by election. In fact, GB News's Matt Goodwin ran as the reform UK candidate. He did a good job, but the demographics were just overwhelming. He had no chance. He would have had a chance 40 years ago. He would have won in a slam dunk. But the UK of today is very different. It's a different country. Let me show you the successful candidate who's sort of a party girl. She dresses a little bit like the old American pop star Cyndi Lauper, like a little bit radical and a little bit dissident. And she's just all about dancing and love and having a good time. And let me just show you a clip. She and Zach Polanski had a dance party in Trafalgar Square. I want to show that to you and I want to contrast that with, like you say, the central mobilizing issue for the party is Gaza. Here, take a look at this dance party.
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D
He's ready to go. Who is here for love unity.
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A
That looks like a lot of fun. It was very gay. There were gay male dancers there and I like. They're very sexual, very libertine. And the winner of the election was a party girl. I think that the Islamists, who would find that all very haram. I mean, Mothan Ali was not there. I think they're absolutely fine with that because that's the Trojan horse. Oh, look, it's just a very pretty, dancey pop music girl who looks like Ellie Goulding. Lots of fun. Hey, join the Green Party. We're cool, we're fun, we have dance parties and, yeah, you're gonna Get a few percent of people who are sort of like Greta Thunberg and will do that. But really it's the Trojan horse to smuggle in an enormous Muslim vote. And not just Muslim, Islamist. I think it's actually a trick more than a coalition.
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C
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely true. I think there are definitely people certainly on the Muslim side of the Green Party that will have this entire attitude to that. But there's definitely a lot of people in the Greens who are naive as well. Not necessarily people right at the top, but certainly a lot of Green members, councillors, voters will be, you know, you know, will think that there is this rainbow coalition. They are true believers in this policy. And just in terms of the whole economic left shift that they promote as well, you know, massive wealth, taxes, everything is, you know, completely anti business, open the borders, you know, LGBT everywhere. Although one interesting kind of point I want to raise is that actually like the Green Party aren't the actual real fun party because I think it's true that they are sort of performatively fun and they have sort of this veneer, but overall they're very, they're controlling, you know, sort of primary teacher tier behavior on this, treating us like little kids. Because Hannah Spencer, as you mentioned, you know, she was complaining about MPs having a pint in Parliament, obviously. And these sessions last until like 10, 11pm some days. And it's not like they're driving forklifts, but I think there's times where you would go at 6pm after the main work in between votes, have a couple of pints, socializing and networking and plotting politics with your MPs there. And you said, no, no, you can't do that. You can't have fun at all. Reform UK is a very much more libertarian, freewheeling, actually fun party. The Greens just like to pretend they are, but really they're just as controlling in nanny state as the rest of them.
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A
You know, you mentioned before the Labour Party, that used to be the party of the working class. And I think the Greens would like to pretend that they speak for the working class, but again, they're just sort of rich kids like Zoran Mamdani. He's sort of performing a theatrical presentation of what he thinks a working class. He couldn't be further. And I think it's. I think it's the same in the uk. I think the working class voters are with Nigel Farage because he's real. He wants to hold the line against mass immigration, legal and illegal. I think. I mean, his position has evolved. Let me show you. He's got a colleague, I think he's the chairman of Reform uk who's a Pakistani, British man, if I'm not mistaken, Zia Yousef, who's pretty hard line, I mean, I get a kick out of him and he says these things and you can't really call him racist because he's a visible minority himself. And so people actually listen to him rather than just call them names because that doesn't work. And he had this idea, I think it might have been borrowed from some of Donald Trump's moves or some of the tech. You know, in Texas, you had so many millions of illegal migrants coming across the border and you had all these sanctuary cities, as they were called in, you know, liberal places that were very lovely. And so Texas would fly or bus these illegal migrants in into these left wing places. Martha's Vineyard was, was a vacation getaway that the whole town is full of liberals and they stopped the buses. But New York City, Texas sent thousands of migrants that immediately filled up all of New York City's homeless shelters. And it caused a crisis and it actually made the city come down from its sanctuary city bs Zia Yousef, I think that's where he may have found some inspiration. He said, all right, well, Reform uk, if we win, we're going to take these migrants. We're not going to release them into the community, we're going to hold them in detention centers. And here's the kicker. In the districts of people who vote green because you want them, you got them. And how are you going to, how are you going to push back on that? Because, hey, I mean, it's not a punishment, right? I thought that was such a clever move and it's got a sense of humor to it. What do you think about that?
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C
Yeah, I think you're absolutely spot on. They have to admit that actually having migrants in your backyard is not a good thing. I thought it was supposed to enrich and make our wonderful diverse areas. But yes, Zia now is the shadow Home Secretary for Reform in that he was formerly chairman and now he will basically, if we do get into government, he will then be given the job of handling migration. And frankly, he's the best person in Reform, the person I trust the most to tackle this. He's one of the most radical out of everyone who's been positioned in the shadow cabinet right now. And so, yes, and so I think there is a difference as well. There's been some people on the right, some people have RESTORE supporters who are Saying, oh, you know, this amounts to, you know, threatening rape on the native population because they didn't vote for you. I think that they're getting confused over the fact that we have the asylum hotels now, obviously, and HMOs where the migrants are staying. And obviously this does lead to rape, sexual assault, murder in some cases from the asylum seekers. The difference is there they're allowed to roam about because legally they're not prisoners, they're not detainees. And this is because of the ech car. You can't treat people this way. But when it comes to detainees, AKA if you're about to be deported, you can actually lock them up. And that's why you don't see, for example, all of these migrant crimes spring up around deportation centers that already exist in Britain. And so I think, yes, these deportation centres have to go somewhere. This is a punishment to green voters, not because there is going to be migrant crime in their areas, but because, you know, prisons still have to go somewhere. But, you know, I don't want to live next to a prison. It's, it's, it's an eyesore, it's ugly. And so therefore people who support Reform UK should not have to have them in their backyards. But if you want open borders and if you're, if you're complicit in the system that's allowed all these people to be here, yes, I think you should have to have them in your communities instead rather than mine.
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A
I think it's simpler than that. I think it's just a one liner. It's sort of reminds. I remember a few years ago, we had a reporter who went out on the streets of Toronto and said, hey, do you think we should take more refugees in the Canada? And everyone said, yes. And she had a guy just like sitting 20ft away who said, oh, good, my friend Mohammed is right here, can he stay with you? And every single person said, here, let me play a clip of that. That was our alumna, Jessica Sviationevsky. She did a great job. So I think it was just the one liner showing that all these people are empty virtue signalers. Here's that sketch that we did. It wasn't a sketch, it was a real thing that we did on the streets of Toronto. Here, take a look.
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B
And would you ever be willing to house a refugee? Well, definitely, yes, because they need a lot of help. And also new country, new everything, weather new, different from back home and. Yeah, yeah, why not, why not? We have Mo here with us today. Mo is new to Canada and he Is looking deleted. Nice to meet you. So he actually is looking for a new home. He is new to Canada. Would you guys be willing to house Mo? Unfortunately we have only one bedroom because we are living in a condo. So we have only one bedroom. There is no more space for one person. But there is a lot of opportunity here around. For sure he will find something.
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A
Yeah, so I don't even think it's as thoughtful as you're presenting it, Jack. I don't think it's. Well, they have to go somewhere. I think it's just to provoke the reaction. We don't want them in our communities. Oh, hang on, I thought you did. I think it's literally that one liner. Hey, let me ask you a question. Because the thing about politics on the right is everyone's so individualistic and everyone believes in free speech and everyone, you know, if you're on the right, you've made the conscious decision that perhaps you're not going to be in the corridors of power because you've chosen principle. So there's a kind of personality, I think, that is more individualistic. And so it's no surprise that of the half dozen or so MPs that Nigel Farage carried with him in the election a year and a half ago, two years ago almost, there's some fractiousness and one of them named Rupert Lowe, who I think is excellent, he had a difference of opinion with Nigel Farage and Nigel Farage is the total boss. So Rupert Lowe was booted out, basically. And you know, civil wars are always the most acrimonious. But Rupert Lowe has started a new party and he's, he's doing good work on the grooming gang inquiry. He raised some funds privately and he had an inquiry with our, our former staffer Sammy Woodhouse, and, and he's active on social media and Elon Musk seems to like him. So you've got this guy named Rupert Lowe. He's sort of a one man, one man army, but he's disproportionate to one guy. He gets quite a lot of publicity. And I saw a recent poll that showed that his, I think it's called Restore uk, if I'm not mistaken, was doing fairly well in the polls. I'm a little worried that this splitism will deny, you know, Reform UK or any other parties on the right to vote. What do you think of Rupert Lowe's?
- [25:44]
C
Yeah, I completely agree. I think the polls, they now have them around 3 to 4% when prompted. And in an election that we're going to have in 2029. There'll be so many constituencies which will be extremely tight margins and taking 3 to 4% away from reform in that way could lead to absolute disaster. Either lead to a coalition with the Conservatives where they could continue on into the future as still a party and aren't totally destroyed and replace by reform, or it leads to this leftist rainbow coalition government, in which case they'll open the borders even more. And quite frankly, when you get to demographic changes, it's entirely possible the right can then no longer win again after 2029. So it's such a life and death election here. And that's why I've been so vocal against restore, because the argument is that RESTORE are to the right of reform significantly. But if you look on their policies, they. If you look what Rupert Lowe himself says, he is a civic nationalist Thatcherite, basically exactly the same as Farage. There's really frankly no distinction between their actual worldviews. I think Rupert Lowe has said previously we want to bring in people who have skills as migrants, he wouldn't deport whole communities, et cetera. But the attitude online, it seems to be that no, Rupert and restore some kind of like based ethno nationalist zoomers who are going to deport billions of people from this country. And certainly the younger guys and the staff are more that way inclined. But if you look at their policies, what they're actually saying that they're going to do, frankly I think they're taking a lot of their more further right supporters for a ride in that there actually is no difference between reform and Restore on what they would actually do in Parliament. And especially if they're asked questions when it comes to English identity, like who is English, who is British, they actually have no coherent answer on this. And it's like if that is your entire raison d' etre is that you're to the right of reform on the identity demographics issue and things like that and you don't have a line that you can bring out and say coherently this is what we believe, then what's the point? I think a lot of it is an ego driven situation and RESTORE should and could have been a fantastic pressure group dragging reform to the right, a policy organisation and institute. But the right in general in Britain has an issue where instead of making a pressure group, a policy organisation, a new party crops up again and then people are divided because of this and rather than working together. So I think it's a crying shame that the right in this way has now been Divided when we should all be united. Well, I think reform would do a fantastic job in office.
- [28:46]
A
You know, because I'm not British, I don't have skin in the game, but maybe it gives me some distance. And I just think, listen, of course Nigel Farage has his flaws. Of course he's not a perfect man, he's a politician, but my God, he's. I think, the. The only alternative that is likely to achieve at least a portion of the goals. The funny thing is, you and I have been talking for more than 20 minutes now and we haven't even uttered the word Conservative Party. Or Kemi Badenok, their new leader. She recently, I think, had a very moral stand against the anti Semitic crime wave in the uk, which is actually shocking. Like almost every day, another stabbing, arson attack. It's truly terrifying. Let me just show you Kemi, when she was on the Hustings, I think just yesterday, the day before, and I thought she gave a very passioned, impassioned speech about how you can't just say it's anti Zionism, it really is anti Semitism. Here's Cammie. I thought this was her finest hour. Here, take a look.
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F
These are not rehearsed questions. I did a long interview on this yesterday. You might disagree with my views, that's fine, but my views are my views. What I am. No, no, no, these aren't. These are views I want people to know. It's very important that people know what it is that they're voting for with me. And what they will have with me is someone who is very, very determined to stop this climate of intimidation and hatred towards Jews. I go to Jewish primary schools that have security guards outside. I don't see that outside any other primary school in this country. I go to supermarkets that have security guards. I go to businesses, Jewish businesses that are having their windows smashed in. Gail's Bakery, having graffiti sprayed all over it. We need to stop pretending that this isn't happening. We do not want the 1930s repeated again. And what we see are people making excuses for this. You will never get excuses from me. We need to protect Jewish people,
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C
though.
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A
Are they not well protected?
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F
Thank you. The people who've died and who've been killed were Jewish people in synagogues. Let's stop pretending that something else has happened. It is. It is it very much is. It very much is. It very much is about Jewish people. And. And you can say. You can say all that you. You can say all that you like, but this is how the 1930s started, with people pretending not to see what was happening in front of them. I am not blind. I can see. No, no, no. I'm telling people. I'm telling people the truth. And they will always know that I stand behind Jewish people and I stand. Stand for them. I'm sorry, but I disagree with you.
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C
You just have to accept that it
- [31:16]
A
goes on a little bit. I mean, and she gave some very strong media interviews as well. I think it is a terrible situation in the uk, and I think it's Jews today and Christians tomorrow. I mean, that's how it's been for 1400 years around the world. It's just that it's demographically difficult to say that because you have places like Birmingham, there are 35, 40% Muslim. You have this new political force that we've been talking about. Kemi Badenoch has made the decision that she's going to eschew the radical Muslim vote. I mean, there is still some moderate Muslims and just to be ideologically and politically different than the incumbent Keir Starmer or the Greens. And I think that Nigel Farage has done similar math and he has allied himself on the Jewish or anti terrorism side. I like Kimmy, but I don't think that there's a chance to put Humpty Dumpty back together after 14 years. The Conservative Party was thrashed in the last election and Nigel Farage is there to pick up the pieces. You've had defections from the Conservatives to reform uk. I like Kemi, but I just don't think the Conservative Party of the UK is coming back, which is a crazy thing to say. That's such an old institution. It's such an amazing history. I mean, just Margaret Thatcher being just the first name that jumps to mind is the Conservative Party of the uk. Is it done for?
- [32:41]
C
It's not done for yet. But I will say as well on Kemi that like most Tory politicians, you know, she talks a good talk, but will never actually walk the walk. If you look at their record in government, they all said constantly, we're going to get migration down, we're going to lower taxes, we're going to do this, that and the other, you know, and they always put in the most woke policies when it comes to schools, yet they open the borders, they raise taxes, they do exactly the opposite of what they're going to say. So it doesn't matter how good Kemi's rhetoric is on this, the record of the Conservative Party is that they will never do anything that they promise. Now, as I said, it's not dead yet. This is why, again, I'm so in favor of a big, solidly decent Reform majority. Because if the tories survive from 2029, if they survive 2020 and 29, they will continue. If reform don't wipe them out at this next election, they will carry on in a significant way in right wing politics. If there's a reform Tory coalition, for example, the Tories will likely block everything that in many ways that reform would try and do or moderate it well down and therefore nothing good will ever happen. And reform will take the hit in public opinion for this and the Tories will again reposition themselves as the party of the right. But if they are wiped out, they'll be relegated to a very small regional party where I can imagine they still cling onto 10 to 15 seats for the rest of time, but will never come back into government. So, yes, so the Conservatives are. And I think when you recognise how many MPs are wet. Liberals within the Conservative Party have done so much damage to this country and institutionally, it's just completely rotten. The staffers are some of the worst people to exist. This is why reform has been blocking. Reform has been more positive, bringing in former Conservative MPs and former Conservative councillors, because that is some of the people who are good people, but the people who have worked in the institutions, who direct, who write the policy, who whisper in the ears, the ministers, these are some of the worst sort of Westminster swamp types around. The reform have been blocking them, joining their HQ team. So, yes, the Conservative Party is not dead. It could be in 2029 and I really hope it is.
- [35:09]
A
We're talking with Jack Hadfield, One of the UK's leading citizen journalists, someone who has a tremendous command of history as well, as you can tell, Jack. As you know, I'm friends with Tommy Robinson and he is treated as a social outcast in most circles on the right. I mean, Nigel Farage has been very nervous and I can understand it. Again, I don't condemn Nigel Farage for having some distance between him, because they would love to call Nigel Farage far right, it's racist, etc. Tommy Robinson is not those things, but that it stuck to him because he's being accused of it so much. And Nigel Farage is trying to protect his brand. I get it. I am not mad at him for that. But an amazing thing has happened over the last years. You know, I've been close to Tommy for a while and I've seen him at his lowest lows, but in the last year he's been Vindicated in court on several occasions. He had a massive rally in the UK last September. The lowest estimate I saw was 110,000. I saw estimates over a million. Even if it was, quote, just half a million people, that's an enormous number who are no longer afraid to come out. And I think most of them, frankly, are Reform UK supporters. Tommy is having another big rally on May 16th. I'll be coming over to see what that's like. Importantly, he's had the friendship of Elon Musk, who has boosted him on Twitter and spoke at the last rally. My point is, I think Tommy hasn't changed, but the UK has. The facts have gotten worse. A lot of Tommy's predictions have been borne out. And when you have someone as powerful, wealthy and persuasive as Elon Musk breaking the social taboo of hanging out with Tommy, I think it moves the needle a bit. What's your take on Tommy Robinson as a political activist? Is he still treated as poison by the establishment or are people saying, look, his prophecies have come true and the guy can get hundreds of thousands. I mean, I don't know if any politician, other than maybe Nigel Farage himself, could get more than 100,000 people at a rally. Over to you, Jack, what do you think?
- [37:22]
C
Yeah, I think you're right. If you shift, for example, for example, like 10 years ago I was so in Britain, I would have been on the far extreme right. Tommy Robinson would have been. You probably would have been too, if you were here. But now the open window has shifted so much. There is now a much greater space to the right of the positions that we hold. And so Tommy is no longer the most evil Nazi bigot, racist, as I'm afraid, whatever you want to call him to the media. Just because everything has shifted so much. And now, you know, if you look at what Tommy was saying about radical Islam and other things, etcetera, I mean, more people even go further talking about wider demographic stuff. And this has now been brought into, for example, Tommy obviously never had this sort of ethno nationalist even streak or discussion. But now you have Suella Braverman of a former mp, obviously, Matt Goodwin, he obviously tried to be a former mp, talking about English being an ethnicity and you have to have that heritage and ancestry and so on. And so that's something that Tommy would never even said about, you know, because obviously he's focused on, on. On the Islam and the mass. And the mass migration issue there, I think, again, relating to reform. I remember reform conference last year. Zia, youssef was asked by who he obviously mentioned earlier, was asked by Michael Gover, the Spectator, about Tommy Robinson. And what Zia said to him, said about him was, you know, you have to give him props for being the first person to really talk about the Islamization of Britain, getting the attention on the grooming gangs and so forth. But Zia said no, we would not let him into Reform uk. I think Tommy has definitely shredded a lot of the biggest toxicity, let's say if you are asking people 10 years ago versus now saying that you liked Tommy Robinson or admired him, I think 10 years ago you would have got a lot of majority negative responses from sort of the general public. But now I would say that's probably not the case now. He still has enough toxicity in that I think Reform wouldn't want to bring him in or publicly ally with him. But the toxicity has moved down enough in that he is now sort of part of the overall sort of rightist coalition and that he now has a public part to play, as you say, can bring, you know, like, I think from what I saw there, probably somewhere between 300 to 500,000 people, you know, on the streets of London. And that is. No, there is nothing to be sniffed at at all. So, yeah, you know, it's been very interesting to see everything play out in terms of the general sort of radicalization and Overton window shift that we've seen in Britain, you know, where now, you know, I can go on GB news, whereas 10 years ago this is, this is not somewhere I would have been. Yeah, I would have been not touched with a barge poll. So, yeah, it's definitely. But overall it's clearly, as you can tell, a big positive shift in terms of who is accepted and now and who and who isn't.
- [40:18]
A
Yeah, I think that Tommy is the most defamed man in the UK and a lot of that sticks. Let me play you a very quick clip. I mentioned Rupert Lowe a moment ago. He was recently interviewed by Jacob Rees Mogg, who's a Tory, sort of a fancy pants, a little bit on the posh side and he also has a gig at GB News. It's interesting to me in the UK how sitting politicians also are part of the media. I like it, by the way. It's just different than what we do here in Canada. And Rees Mogg sort of chided Rupert Lowe a little bit for hanging out with Tommy Robinson, called him an extremist and far right. This is just about 10 days ago on GB News. Let me play a clip of it because I want to show you an interesting thing. So here's, here's a Conservative, as in the Conservative Party, poking at Rupert Lowe gently, but mainly saying that Tommy Robinson is far right extremist. One person who does seem to me to be far right is Tommy Robinson, but I assume you wouldn't want to be associated with him and his somewhat extreme statements.
- [41:20]
G
Well, I'm not associated with Tommy. I think, as I've said in the past, Tommy has been right about the rape gangs and we haven't talked about our rape gang inquiry, which again, I think should possibly.
- [41:34]
A
Which is a very important issue. Yes.
- [41:36]
G
So GB News actually has Tommy Robinson, I've given him credit and the establishment, for some reason, I think, fears Tommy Robinson because, you know, he is somebody who's been prepared. He's brought up in Luton, as you know, he, he saw at first hand what was happening and the rape gang issue has been going on for probably 50 years, but accelerating really after the Blairite sort of era, and particularly into the early 2000s. So. And he was talking about it in 2123and he's been right, he is absolutely right about that issue and I believe if somebody's right about something, you have to give them credit for it. But the establishment fears Tommy Robinson for some reason. I'm not quite sure why. I think they, they. I don't know what he has or hasn't done wrong. I give him credit for being right on this.
- [42:32]
A
He's got a criminal record for fraud. Serious.
- [42:35]
G
But so have quite a lot of people.
- [42:38]
C
He, he.
- [42:39]
G
Quite a lot of people have got a criminal record.
- [42:42]
A
Well, not in the circles I move
- [42:43]
G
in, not many I haven't, I haven't and you haven't, but some have. But, but. So look, I, I don't judge him for that, but I. He has been right on this issue.
- [42:51]
A
So that was just like a week ago. But look at Rees Mogg yesterday saying that he was proud, or impressed rather, that the Oxford Union, which is the debating club at Oxford University, very famous debating club, has invited Tommy Robinson to debate. Now, Tommy has spoken there before, but it is interesting. It's a sign, as you say, Jack, in the moving Overton window, that Tommy Robinson is part of the debate. Again, he's not beyond the pale. And what I got a kick out of is that Rees Mogg is cheering on the Oxford Union, whereas just a week ago he was repeating the message track to Tommy Robbins. I don't even know what far right means anymore, frankly. Hey, I want to add, so, I mean Maybe the peer pressure is reversing. I mean, I think peer pressure is about looking around and seeing what your social group, your peer group does. And Elon Musk is really at the top of the pyramid for setting trends. So I don't know. I think the people who had the stranglehold on what is polite society and polite company or not, are changed. Let me throw one last thing at you. I'd love your feedback on this. I'm a fan of Tommy's, it's clear. But I acknowledge that he has had criminal convictions and served time not just for political offenses, but for other things. And so, including a passport issue. But he was recently granted a special visa to travel to the United States of America, and that would have been approved at a very high level, perhaps even by the Secretary of State himself and the sensitivities to granting a visa to Tommy Robinson. And he went to America and he spoke in Congress, and he met with people of very high backgrounds who hadn't been poisoned against Tommy, who didn't have 10 years of defamation that they had to push aside to see him. They just met him on, like. Imagine meeting Tommy and hearing about him for really the first time. He would make a very different impression than if he had to meet you after you had heard 100 negative things about him. Anyhow, my point is, what do you think it says that the U.S. state Department approved a visa and various U.S. congressmen met with Tommy, the man that Keir Starmer and the British legal, political establishment have demonized to no end. What do you think that says?
- [45:15]
C
Well, I mean, for me, it says that, you know, we finally have, you know, an administration in America that is actually friendly to people, you know, who care about mass migration, you know, free speech, you know, all of these issues that we've been fighting about for years. Finally, you know, big, big Uncle Sam is actually on the right side for once. You know, an example of this, I saw Sarah Rogers, who's fantastic, is the Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy in the State Department. The Guardian did a hit piece on her where she had. Because she retweeted a video of me once, and they had tried to attack her, via attacking me, you know, drinking, dredging up old stories, you know, leftist smears about me, you know, and. And. And Sarah said, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, this is. Like, why is this an issue? And I don't look into the history of everyone who I've retweeted. You can imagine years ago, this would not have been like the Republicans generally, the GOP or the more moderate side, they always get very skittish about this. But you can tell that there is a powerful movement thanks to Trump and thanks to the more America first agenda pushing people there who say, no, I don't care about the media, I don't care about the establishment. Who says we have to kowtow to X, Y and Z because somebody has been declared far right or racist or whatever at any point in their career? No, these people fight on the side of freedom and we're going to back them. And that really is fantastic to see from across the pond. Now, will it hold until post2028? That's an entire different question. But certainly for now, it does feel very good to know that there are people in the most important country in the world in terms of power that actually do have our back from vice conflict.
- [47:12]
A
And I think it's a bit of a rebuke to Keir Starmer and his leadership as well. I mean, that would not have been well received by the British Prime Minister, I think. And I mean, Keir Starmer and Donald Trump are not really getting along well. King Charles's visit did fairly well and he managed to keep the global warming stuff under wraps, more or less. Let me ask you one last question, being very generous with your time, Jack. I mean, you know the UK intimately. It's your life, it's your home, it's your background, it's your history. And you study its politics for fun and profit. And if you had to look ahead for the next six to 12 months, what are the events or the decision moments that you think might be newsy in Canada? My answer would be the Alberta separatist referendum might be important. What's the equivalent in the uk? What is there? I mean, you mentioned the general elections probably won't be for another three years. What should people be looking towards as a decisive moment?
- [48:14]
C
I mean, almost certainly, obviously we have the local elections coming up and that's almost immediate. You know, that is this week. And I think that there is a possibility that if Labour are absolutely hammered, as we expect them to be, that Keir Starmer is finally weakened and goes. But I wouldn't say that this is immediate. So I could say within the next one to two months or so, we could have a change in Prime Minister. You know, it could be that he's finally taken off his, his high horse over, over there. Other than that, what I also expect to see is once again a rise in the asylum seeker rape cases. Back up again because the weather is now improving. You know, there's a dirt of this over the winter simply because these people did not go out on the streets and assault their victims. But I've heard that there are obviously with the more boat crossing increases, there's going to be more people out and because of the weather they'll be more likely to be outside and attack. So I do expect that we will once again see for the third year in a row, a big summer of protests and that will have obviously reset the agenda again, talking about illegal migration, talking about the boats, talking about all of this which it throws back to, which obviously reforms Bread and butterfly on that issue. So yes, certainly a big threat to Keir Starmer's leadership imminently. Will he survive, will he not? Well, I hope he survives because frankly he's weaker and people like him less than almost every other possible Labour leadership candidate. So he's a good person to be fighting against. And yes, and then two, I expect to have another summer of protests as well, which will obviously massively change the news agenda.
- [49:55]
A
Jack, it's great to catch up with you. Thanks for spending so much time with us. What's the best way for people to follow you on social media?
- [50:02]
C
Yeah, I'm most active on X so I'm at there Ackhadders. Most other social medias are either that handle or a similar one but you can all find them by going to jack hadfield.co.uk which has all of my links and you can find me everywhere there. But yeah, primarily on Xack.
- [50:22]
A
Well, that's the best place to be. It's the freest place to be and I. That's certainly my go to social media platform. Jack, great to catch up with you. Maybe we'll see you in the UK on May 16, hopefully so. All right, There he is, Jack Hatfield. What a great catch up on the uk. I think every Canadian can find it interesting as a map of where we will go if we don't change course. The trends that they're going through now, we will likely go through them ourselves soon. Well, that's our show for the day. Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.