Alan Cumming

Summary

Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky: Episode Featuring Alan Cumming

Release Date: February 25, 2025

In this deeply personal and introspective episode of Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky, Monica engages in a heartfelt conversation with her long-time friend and acclaimed actor, Alan Cumming. Their dialogue delves into sensitive topics such as childhood trauma, personal growth, and the journey of reclaiming one's narrative. Below is a comprehensive summary of their discussion, highlighting key themes, insights, and poignant moments.

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1. A Quarter-Century Friendship

Monica opens the episode by reminiscing about her 25-year friendship with Alan, recounting their first meeting in 1999. The pair humorously reflect on their early days, describing themselves as "leprechaun twins" due to their matching green attire. This lighthearted beginning sets the stage for a candid exploration of their long-standing bond.

Monica Lewinsky [02:13]: “I've actually now known each other for 25 years.”

2. Alan's Harrowing Childhood Experiences

The conversation takes a somber turn as Alan courageously shares his experiences of growing up in an abusive household. He reveals the enduring impact of his physically abusive father and discloses that he was groomed by an older man during his teenage years—a revelation that deeply affects Monica.

Monica Lewinsky [02:35]: “I wasn’t surprised when he talked about how abusive his dad had been, but I was really surprised to learn about the grooming.”

3. Confronting the Past and Seeking Healing

Alan discusses the catalyst that forced him to confront his suppressed memories: the decision to become a father. This impending parenthood brought forth buried traumas, compelling him to seek therapy and ultimately face his father. Their visit to the family estate becomes a pivotal moment, symbolizing the confrontation and the beginning of healing.

Alan Cumming [25:37]: “I was able to go and confront my father... It was incredibly empowering.”

4. The Role of Public Narrative and Vulnerability

Monica and Alan explore the importance of sharing personal stories in the public realm. Alan emphasizes how his openness about trauma and mental health has not only aided his healing but also provided solace and inspiration to others facing similar struggles. Monica reflects on her own experiences with the MeToo movement, highlighting the evolving understanding of trauma over time.

Alan Cumming [32:51]: “Coming out in any form is a positive thing. I believe that.”

5. The Impact of Social Media and Public Scrutiny

The duo discusses the contrasting landscapes of public perception during their respective experiences. Alan draws parallels between Monica's notoriety and his own journey, noting how social media accelerates the cycle of judgment and redemption. They contemplate the challenges of maintaining personal integrity amidst relentless public scrutiny.

Alan Cumming [05:41]: “Social media flushes out truth and facts, and it's not always a good thing.”

6. Therapeutic Insights and Personal Growth

Alan introduces the concept of "afterwardsness," a delayed recognition of trauma that surfaces as one's understanding and values mature. Monica shares her therapist’s perspective on trauma as an enduring echo, reinforcing the idea that healing is an ongoing process. Their exchange underscores the complexities of trauma and the necessity of continuous self-reflection.

Alan Cumming [18:47]: “Trauma is in your more mature, adult understanding...”

7. Mutual Support and the Power of Friendship

Throughout the conversation, Monica and Alan express profound gratitude for their unwavering support of each other. They acknowledge the significance of having a trusted friend to navigate the tumultuous waters of personal trauma and public adversity. Their friendship exemplifies the healing power of connection and mutual understanding.

Alan Cumming [50:35]: “We love you so much.”

8. Embracing Creativity and Reclaiming Identity

Monica reminisces about the creative endeavors she and Alan undertook during challenging times, such as inventing quirky product ideas in the solitude of their homes. These moments of creativity served as outlets for reclaiming their identities and asserting control over their narratives amidst chaos.

Alan Cumming [36:22]: “We could both be moguls, honestly.”

9. Final Reflections and Moving Forward

As the episode draws to a close, Alan reflects on the enduring nature of trauma and the necessity of continual healing. He emphasizes that while complete resolution may remain elusive, the act of sharing and confronting past abuses paves the way for ongoing personal growth and liberation.

Alan Cumming [35:17]: “You have to make peace with the fact you're not going to get satisfaction...”

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Key Takeaways:

• The Importance of Confrontation: Facing past abuses and traumatic experiences is crucial for personal healing and reclaiming one's narrative.

• The Power of Openness: Sharing personal stories publicly can lead to empowerment and provide support to others facing similar challenges.

• Ongoing Healing Journey: Trauma doesn't dissipate entirely; it requires continuous self-reflection and therapeutic work to manage its echoes in one's life.

• Mutual Support Systems: Maintaining strong, supportive friendships can significantly aid in navigating personal adversities and promoting healing.

Monica and Alan's conversation is a testament to resilience, the enduring strength of friendship, and the unyielding journey toward reclaiming one's self amidst life's most challenging moments.

Transcript

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Hi everyone. For today's episode, I spoke with my dear friend Alan cumming. We met 25 years ago at a party where we were sitting in a booth and the people in the booth next to us, someone leaned over and started to touch my hair. And I said to Alan, sort of quite frightened that someone was petting me. And we had a moment and kind of both knew that we were gonna be good friends ever since then. So you probably know him as an actor, presenter, author and host of the hit show Traitors. I known Alan for so long and so intimately, I wasn't surprised in our conversation when he talked about how abusive his dad had been, but I was really surprised to learn that he had also been groomed by an older man when he was a teenager. So it was a little heartbreaking for me. But I hope you find something to connect to in our chat. And thanks for joining us on Reclaiming. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Audible. Visit audible.comreclaiming to find your next listen. Thank you to our sponsor, Reformation. Visit reformation.com to see why they're my go to for stylish and sustainable fashion. I was thinking this morning, I was awake at 5am oh, lying there, nervous.

[Alan Cumming]

So this is your first one. You're popping your cherry with me.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, exactly. Popping my podcast cherry, love. Exactly. And I was thinking, I was nervous and I was thinking about two things. One was I did the math. We've actually now known each other for 25 years. Cause we met in 99. I checked on the calculator.

[Alan Cumming]

Was it 99? I thought it was a thousand, early 1,000.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, I'm pretty sure it was 99 because I did.

[Alan Cumming]

We could find out. Cause remember that I wore that terrible outfit the night we met? I was wearing a terrible.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wait, is that the one when we were both. Oh, right. And I was in green also. We look like. We look like leprechaun twins maybe.

[Alan Cumming]

I was 19 leprechaun a couple months later if it wasn't.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yes, but yeah, so I was thinking.

[Alan Cumming]

Quarter of a century.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know, exactly. So our 25 year friendiversary. And then I was also thinking about that in the 25 years I've known you, I've never been nervous to talk to you except. No, exactly.

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, you're not nervous now, are you?

[Monica Lewinsky]

I'm A little less nervous, but I'm nervous. You know, I'm. I'm a little bit of a perfectionist.

[Alan Cumming]

Well, it's good to be nervous. Monikers. Because it means you care.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. Do you still get nervous?

[Alan Cumming]

Yes, of course. Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Really? Okay with everything or do you?

[Alan Cumming]

Well, with new things. You know, I get nervous when I do my concerts. Like I've got a new concert show, you know, it's called Uncut, and I've only done it about six times, so each and each and there's always a big gap before I do it again. So I get really nervous at that.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I found this thing from 2001.

[Alan Cumming]

Okay, what is it?

[Monica Lewinsky]

I printed it out. This is part of an email you sent me.

[Alan Cumming]

Uh. Oh.

[Monica Lewinsky]

If you feel comfortable reading it on the thingy, you can. But you could read it first.

[Alan Cumming]

November 22, 2001. Dear Monica, last night I finished reading your book Monica's Story and I'm so shocked and horrified. When I first came to America and the whole scandal was everywhere, I thought that it was a horrible thing because you were caught up in a political revenge thing and that you were a little pawn being used by Starr to get at Clinton. And I thought that you were young and in love. And I also remember being so horrified at the way the media vilified you, but I had no idea how much more painful and disgraceful the whole thing was. Oui, Monica, I can't imagine how awful it all was. And also I am so amazed that you've come through it to be the fabulous and beautiful person that you are today. Brava. Brava. I hope this hasn't churned it all up again for you, but I don't think you should ever stop being told how abused you were by the American so called justice system. Your dignity and loyalty throughout it all is the only light that shines. I'm giving thanks that you've come to it all and are a lovely person and my friend. Love and peace from Alan.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know.

[Alan Cumming]

Love you. Love you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And this was like 23 years ago. I know, but part of why I. I wanted to do this with you, like for my first. You were always the first one to do like. There was no question for me about. And it's just, I think you have both witnessed a lot with me in our friendship and you have inspired me so much and I've learned so much from you.

[Alan Cumming]

There's not a word in that I would change in terms of how I feel. Still feel. I mean, obviously you have. Other things have happened, but that's I'm always amazed that you are as sane and as kind and as well balanced and as sort of vulnerable as well. You know, you went away kind of in sort of your wilderness years and kind of hid.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

And then when. But you've come. I mean, it's just. It's incredible actually. It's incredible to me that you have, well, you know, survived and sort of blossomed.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thanks.

[Alan Cumming]

And also, I think it's really interesting, you know, now what would be the difference now? And, you know, I've become chums of little Dylan Mulvaney.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right.

[Alan Cumming]

And we were just thinking about. She's another person who I feel like came through something awful and sort of vilified on a. On a sort of massive scale, but with the sort of the social media turnaround thing and the way it kind of. She's bounced back so much. I mean, she's still obviously damaged and she's had a terrible thing. But I think in a way that nowadays our sort of the cycle of all that is much faster. Oh, 100% in your day or, you know, that day. It was there for such a long time. In a funny sort of way, I think social media and things sort of flushes things out in a way. It's not necessarily always a good thing.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right.

[Alan Cumming]

Because it flushes out truth and facts and, you know, and it's not just about. I said to Grant about, you know, people are so ill educated and I don't mean they've not gone to college and things like that because obviously there's. Some people have got. Got degrees and whatever, but they're ill educated in, you know, they spout these things that are clearly not true. And I don't know that's. I don't know where you. How long it will take to make that better.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, no, I don't.

[Alan Cumming]

Worries me.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I don't either. It's. But I feel like. I feel like we've mentioned Grant and.

[Alan Cumming]

So Grant is my top international husband.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Exactly. I think the two best things that come with you. Right. Are Grant and Mary darling, Alan's mom.

[Alan Cumming]

She'll be so excited I'm doing this with you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Aw. She's. I love to tell everybody the story from your wedding. How she made the cake in Scotland and brought it down on the train.

[Alan Cumming]

I know. And then she's so happy because the chef wanted to speak to her about how moist her. Her cake was.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

Picture of her kind of talking to the chef and being so flattered. Terrible. She's in good form. Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, Good. I remember you said something at some point about that when you were growing up, it was like a. Did you call it a Scottish Downton Abbey?

[Alan Cumming]

I grew up on a country estate, but the Downton Abbey house had been demolished because there was a thing. It's a terrible thing, actually. There's a really good book called Scotland's Lost Houses or something. So there's a thing where in the 50s, I think it was the death duties for all these families, these sort of, you know, it was a time of change where like, you know, the welfare state was starting, labor got in after the war, all this stuff. The world was changing and all these big houses, the families, when they died, the death duties were so much that they. What they did was they took all the good things out of the houses, all the marble and the blah, blah and everything. And then they blew them up so they wouldn't have to pay the inherit the duties on it or the taxes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, really?

[Alan Cumming]

So there's all these amazing. I mean, we've got like bonkers. It's nuts, but we've got a lot of them. So it wasn't. But. But it was all these kind of more sort of grand Victorian, y, you know, type things. So I was. Lived on a country estate. My father was a forester. I mean, it was very Downton Abbey. There was like gamekeepers, trapper, and there was the big house, but it was gone. All that was left was the stables and the chapel. In the chapel we had sort of like, you know, dances. Yeah, dances and Christmas parties. And the stables were for shoots. And so there's beating. I went. I did beating. I just had to bang the trees so the pheasants would fly up so those rich old white guys with guns could shoot them and stuff like that. So it was very sort of feudal, but the Downton Abbey bit was missing. When I think when we first moved to that estate, I think it was owned by a shipping heiress.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay.

[Alan Cumming]

And then a big insurance company bought it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right. And your childhood there, like you were talking before about your hair and getting your haircut and the whole thing. And I was thinking about how it's funny that Every in the 25 years, I think every time I see you, your hair is different. And I was like, for me, if it's been six months, I'm like, am I up £20 or am I down £20? What's Alan's hair? What's Monica's weight? But there's like a great. I mean, not great, but no, A.

[Alan Cumming]

Completely correlation of my Abusive childhood. And my father's obsession with my hair. I mean, obsessed with my hair and my brother's hair and my book, first memoir, not my father Son. I talk like the first thing is just him going into a rage and then just shearing my hair with these sheep clippers. You know, I had short hair. I mean, I always have like a short back and size. It was always. I'd. You know, but if I. If it was a tiny bit too long or something, he would go nuts. And I don't quite understand it, but it made me. Various things happened. Like when I was. I left to home, went to drama school, I would get. When, you know, when you lie back in the thing to get hair washed, I would vomit. I would. Like when they first started to touch my hair, I'd have to go and be sick. That happened a few times since then. I've, you know, I change my hair all the time. It's a sort of a. That's my power. Like, I feel like I was so controlled.

[Monica Lewinsky]

How were you controlled, Alan?

[Alan Cumming]

Controlled in several ways. You know, in the first way, just living in fear, living in absolute fear. And secondly, of being controlled by violence. Being hit regularly, daily, almost. And also being controlled by having constant barrage of negative things about myself. Being told to me that never good enough, always a waste of time, you know, but also at the same time, my dad said things like. You know, I remember once he said to me, if you. If you fell out of a window, you'd fall up the way. That he was really jealous of me, of my good fortune. Wow, isn't that funny? And then also being controlled because I would have to work. I would never. I would. I would have to work on the estate. I would, like. I used to get a pay packet from my father. He used to. Like, I would. Yeah, it was a certain number of hours worked and I would. I would.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wow.

[Alan Cumming]

He. I was his employee. And. And so I just would. Every evening, every Saturday, I. I'd have to work on this. I weed the seed beds. Do, you know, later I'd do more physical things so that I was. I was like a sort of, you know.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, that's controlling.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, it's control. All those are controlling. And like, I'm. Now I'm just like, I know I'm getting my haircut tonight for a go. I'm just. I want to run from this room right now and get it cut. It's just sort of. I don't really.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But, you know, you like me.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, I'll be fine. But yeah, it's a sort of, it's an interesting sort of how you take something negative and you make it your own and you make it, you know, it's like, hahaha, I can have my hair as many ways as I like.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Did you do, I mean, because you were young, so did you do work work on that, personal work on that before you sort of took the power of, you know, your hair back in, the way that it became your hair became sort of a rebellion?

[Alan Cumming]

Well, I think, I mean, I feel everything about my understanding of what of my past and my, you know, the way that I processed and understood what had happened to me and how it affected me and how I became, you know, and how all that stuff was post. Being 28, okay, last week I was a little sick for a few days and it's my body telling me to, to slow down and just. I think that's so great that, you know, in the days that you've got off, it knows, just do that and just. And like the way that my body as a little boy didn't allow me to retain memories because it was too much to deal with. And so it wasn't until I was grown up enough and I was about to become a father, actually, I think that was the other thing that all these things exploded and I remembered all these things and then that's when I started to sort of understand and you know, and get better and also realize that, oh, this person I've been is a product of all this stuff. And now I don't really want to be that person. I want to find out who actually I want to be as opposed to being controlled by negative, terrible things that happened. So I think it was then, I think it was like after age 28, I. Although before that I remember once actually when I was at drama school and you know, when, you know, there's a thing, you can get haircuts by the sort of baby haircut. Yes, Practice haircuts, you get them for free. And students go. So I went and they went and they wanted to do a color in my hair and it was. And I came out with purple hair and I was just like, oh my God. And I was going home for the weekend from drama school and I started. It was past the time when my father was, it wasn't, you know, I was an adult at then, so he wasn't, he was still scary, but he wasn't violent.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. Cause he was physically abusive.

[Alan Cumming]

Physically very abusive. And so I went home and I just, I thought, oh God, oh my Goodness. So I wore entirely purple to sort of think that it might deflect my purple look.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Like Violet Beauregard.

[Alan Cumming]

I'd like a purple sweater and a purple. I just wore purple so I'd be this kind of blur of purple and they wouldn't sort of. I don't know. But nobody said anything, actually, hilariously. But I realized things like that. I look back and I think, oh, I did have sort of. Even before I had sort of hair, sort of. I used hair as a sort of a thing. But it wasn't till, I mean, talking about the fact that your father, whilst you're screaming and crying and he's holding you down and shearing you with sheep shears, talking to other people about that, you then are, you know, it's horrible. And then. But also you hear other see people's reactions and you're like, oh, yeah, that's right. That was fucking insane and just awful. So I think after that I then that's when I started to think, oh, I can do that. I don't have to protect that person. You know, I can say that weird thing happened to me. Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I think I feel very mindful in my life just because my family got so exposed early on and it was so negative and there was, I think there was so much embarrassment and exposure for them too, that I feel ultra protective.

[Alan Cumming]

Right.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But so what's interesting to me about what you're saying with the 28, like in this 28 year old period, gonna become a father and you were married to a woman at the time, Not.

[Alan Cumming]

Grant, not a woman.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. Nope. But it's interesting to me because I had similar experience in terms of just becoming more aware of traumatic experiences that I hadn't thought of as traumatic. And for me there was. I had to have done a certain level of healing. So I think it was kind of after I came sort of back out into the public arena, started attempting to take back my narrative. And I think there was a point where I felt on some version, my body, my psyche felt safe enough that it was, you know, I was in therapy and saying this thing, it was like, oh, yeah, but that happened. That didn't count.

[Alan Cumming]

Right. Oh, is this when you talked about MeToo, when you did that essay? I thought that was so great because I think you spoke for a lot of people who. That sort of, oh, I wonder if I'm allowed to be in this gang.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. So really, the MeToo that we saw in 2017 was MeToo 2.0. Right. And so because Tarana had started the movement 10 years earlier. And it was so fascinating to me, with my social psychology background, to observe how When I put MeToo, everybody assumed I was talking about 98. And I actually was talking about this other experience and several others that I had had that were sort of what I was mentioning before in terms of this. Something that I had. I had always talked about, like, having lost my virginity at 19, and I was in therapy. I had been with this therapist for, I don't know, five years at this point. And I was like, well, technically I was 14, but that didn't count.

[Alan Cumming]

Right.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You know, and that whole. And so the. And her sort of talking me through. No, that's an unwanted sexual explanation, you know. No, no. But I liked him and the whole thing. And I was fucking 14, right. You know, that's illegal. And. Yeah. And there was no consent. Wasn't a thing. And the whole. Whatever. But what we also see, right, Is like vessel Bando. I never say his name. Right. But the body keeps the score. And so the reality is like you were saying about when you were 28 that you had suppressed all these memories and so they were living in you.

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, they were there.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, they were there. And so it just is. So sometimes it can take a long time to see the damage. Like they'll say about a car accident, you know, if you've, like, hurt your neck in a car accident, that may not, you know, show up for 10 years, like the actual damage.

[Alan Cumming]

True, true.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And so I think that's what's sort of.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, trauma is sort of. I mean, I think there's. There was a thing that I really loved when I was writing one of my books that I discovered this thing. It's called afterwardsness. And. But I can't remember what the German word is it Freud. Freudy thing.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Always the German. German or Japanese. It's always. Right. The best words.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, it's a really good waiting for guffman kind of word. But it was about this idea that it's not like, you know, delayed trauma because it wasn't traumatic. Then you see, to me, you know, something traumatic happens to you and you go, that didn't happen. And then you go on. And then 10 years later you're like, ah, it's not that because there wasn't trauma. You only have trauma when you think about it afterwards. So it's sort of. So the trauma is in your more mature, adult understanding, or not necessarily adult, but in your later understanding and your values. Looking back at an instant that when you were there at the Time you didn't.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That's so interesting. I have to think about that. Cause my initial reaction is I don't agree with that.

[Alan Cumming]

And what do you mean?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I think in the sense that if there had not been any element of trauma in that experience, we wouldn't be making the connection. We wouldn't be drawing the line from a later thing, looking back at something. I think it may not. We just may not experience it in the linear way that we look at trauma or think of trauma.

[Alan Cumming]

Right, I see. But it's also. It's not saying there wasn't trauma. There's trauma now.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right.

[Alan Cumming]

I mean, I sort of understand it because this thing happened to me that I totally had, you know, sort of a sexual relationship with an older man when I was, you know, a teenager.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, I don't know this.

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, well, it's true. And. And I. And then I realized that actually technically it was illegal because of my age in Scotland at the time. And. And then I just actually thought, wow, actually that's really bizarre. And you know, that then I. The more I thought about it and the more I sort of examined the thing, I realized I was kind of slightly groomed. I don't think I had any at the time. Any. I felt liberated actually by it. I felt empowered by it and I felt it was sort of fun and kind and I felt, you know, good about. Wasn't until many years later that in the light of my. In my 50s or whatever, I look back on that and I thought, ew. So that's what I mean. You see the difference. Yeah, I mean, and now I still don't even think it was a traumatic experience for me. I still believe it was all these things, but it's within the context. It feels different now.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thanks so much to Audible, our presenting sponsor this year. Why not let Audible expand your life by listening? Explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you. Just open the app and and tap into your well being with advice and insight from leading influencers, experts and professionals. You'll find titles that enrich your life, relax you, and the ones I like best titles that make you laugh. Whatever your focus or interest, there's a listen for it on Audible. Ultimately, it's all about starting good habits. Making a positive change is the best goal you can make for yourself. And Audible can help. There's so much opportunity and more to imagine when you listen. Let Audible help you reach the goals you set for yourself. Start listening today when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com reclaiming thanks so much to our sponsor, Reformation. I want to take a second to talk about one of my favorite clothing brands, Reformation. You've probably seen Reformation on Instagram or at a wedding. They make the best guesting dresses. But if you're like me, you may have thought that's all they do, well, you're in for a pleasant surprise. Last year they worked with Yours Truly and Vote.org on a campaign to empower voters to take part in the democratic process and show off their workwear. From doing the campaign and getting to know the brand even better, I love their sweaters, blouses, workwear, shoes and bags. But most important, I love how confident I feel in their stuff. Plus it really holds up since they make everything with super high quality, sustainable materials. Reformation is also a brand that uses their growing platform to do good in the world and especially in the sustainable fashion space. As they say, being naked is the number one most sustainable option. Reformation is number two. If you're looking for clothes you want to feel great in and feel better about, head to reformation.com I know in the 28 period, right, when you were 28, then you started to confront the stuff with your dad, your dad's abuse.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And you can you tell me that.

[Alan Cumming]

Story how, how it all happened? Well, I was married to my ex wife and we were trying to have a baby and I was, I mean I was sort of, you know, quite successful. I was living in London with a big house. We're all sort of, you know, bought a big house so we could have kids and all that stuff. I think when you decide to become a father, a you think, oh, well, I've got to have a life that will, I've got to be secure and I've got to be sorted out to. In order to bring this person into the world. And therefore that brings up feelings about your own father and your own family and your own thing. And that is what did it for me and that's what was the sort of catalyst for all this, all these memories to come out because I just, and I still, I mean I've never, I haven't had children and I still, if I'm honest, worry that I, as much therapy as I've had and as much as I'm a kind person and blah, blah, would I have the kind of DNA of being. Not that I feel I would be an abusive father, but I don't know, I just, it's, it scares me. Being a father scares me because I am in a lineage of someone who is my father, obviously mentally ill and sort of psychotic and you know, a variety of personality disorders. But it's, yeah, that I think my body said, you better get your shit together because you can't just swan into this. You've got a lot of stuff to deal with about what it is to be a father and what happened to you as a child of a father. So that's what happened. And then it all kind of came out. I was overwhelmed, was feeling like I was insane. Was also feeling I needed to get out of my marriage, I needed to change my life, I needed to do all these things. It was not a good time for any of those things to happen.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Never is, never is.

[Alan Cumming]

And yeah, I sort of went under, I went to. It's so crazy, but I went to Primrose Hill, I rented a little bedset in Primrose Hill, sort of moved out of my marital home and then. And sort of went there and kind of waited for it all to sort of happen.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That's so brave.

[Alan Cumming]

Was it? I suppose. I mean I just sort of felt. I felt I was hiding, I was hiding but I just, I knew I couldn't, you know, having. Obviously my ex wife was not. She was freaking out because all of a sudden it's gone from us trying to have a baby and da da. This idyllic life to me going, I don't want to have a baby, I think I want to leave you. I've got to get away. So I couldn't do all this in that environment and I tried to explain that to her and so off I went to my little bedsit and you know, and was going to therapy and da da and then spoke to my brother and my mum and it all kind of things. So I took, I had lucky. I was able to take a few months off and just let it all come out. It was like having overwhelmed with all the memories washing over you and thinking, can that be true? Did that happen? And you know, all that stuff. And luckily, you know, I had my brother to back things up.

[Monica Lewinsky]

The Amazing Tom.

[Alan Cumming]

The Amazing Tom.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And were you worried when Tom started to have kids? Were you like, did he have the same concerns about fatherhood that you had?

[Alan Cumming]

I don't think with his first child because that was before this, but I think like shortly after that he then had other kids and I think so. And he then, you know, he did some work and was in a men's group and stuff like that and you know, I think he was more, much more Conscious of it. I mean, I feel like so lucky that I'm able. I was able to just basically go, you know, hey, my agents and everyone. I'm having a nervous breakdown. So I'm having a couple of months off my top international career. That's easier to do when you have a job like that. When you have a real job, it's harder to do that. You've got to kind of do it in increments and like what you're saying about your family and what they were exposed to. I felt like, oh, I've made him go through this too. Or it was a little later for him. But, you know, I've made. I've brought this all up for all of us, me and my mom and him, but especially him. And.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay, wait, sorry. So I'm not sure I understood this before. Was Tom cognizant of the abuse or had you both pushed it away?

[Alan Cumming]

We both pushed it away. I mean, I don't quite know. I can't. I don't know to which level of interesting that he had done it. But we never talked about it. It was not, you know, I talk in the book, actually, but the silence in our house, this sort of tension of just like we. None of us really. We had a. You know, we would reference it, like, be careful, he's in a terrible mood, or just things like that. But you would never really. I mean, when something is so constant for years and years, you don't think, oh, my God, this is crazy, because it's just your life.

[Monica Lewinsky]

It just is.

[Alan Cumming]

It just is. And also he was six years older than me, which is kind of a weird guy. When I was 10, he was 16, so. And he left and he left and got married. And so then I was on my own, my dad for a while, which is. That was the worst bit. But I feel as adults, we kind of would sort of say a little bit, you know, maybe after a few drinks, it's like, oh, you know, dad was pretty crazy, you know, but never really truly sort of embracing it and dealing with it. So it wasn't. So I was the. So I did that and I sort of. That was another sort of, you know, whip myself even more. I'm affecting my brother and his life and by doing this. But he was really great and really supportive. And also what's great is just have someone. Because in that situation you're so worried about being believed. You know, you just think people are not. And some people didn't really. Yeah, like my ex wife, sort of. I. I think she. She did eventually, but.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right, right.

[Alan Cumming]

She said to me that I was using as an excuse to get the marriage and she was angry and she was just, you know.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

So this, it's. You're so tender and you're so raw that you can't actually. And that pushed us apart even further because you can't be around people who don't believe you. It's just too much.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I think that's true.

[Alan Cumming]

You can hardly believe it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. I think that's one of the hard things, particularly about trauma and abuse when you're young, is that it sort of. You become. It's like you are able to gaslight yourself, you know, and you become very proficient at it. You become very proficient at. It's my fault or it didn't happen.

[Alan Cumming]

It wasn't that bad.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right, Exactly.

[Alan Cumming]

Happens to everybody.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

Everybody's got trauma, all these things. Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I mean, that sort of thing.

[Alan Cumming]

That is true. But. Yes, exactly, but, but yeah. And so as you were going through.

[Monica Lewinsky]

This, were you talking to your dad at this point?

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, no. We kind of would go a duty visit once every few years.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay.

[Alan Cumming]

Because where my in laws at the time lived was right by where I'd grown up. So we. But no, he wasn't really in our lives and he, we. You know, it was Sveti. He was with someone else and it was a duty thing. It was just sort of a terrible. I never speak to him. Then all this happened and it was my mom actually who. Oh, I know. I was going to say the thing about. When you, when you worry about how your family are being exposed because of this trauma that you've made public or.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Public within the family.

[Alan Cumming]

Public that. But also public within the world, which is what happened to you initially, but was what I chose to do later by writing about it that that was another sort of cycle of oh my God, my poor family are going to have to deal with this. And. But actually it was the best thing I could have possibly have done.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay.

[Alan Cumming]

It was such a positive thing for them. Like I saw my mom and my brother at a book event being having like everyone applauding them for supporting me and me and me telling this story. And I'm seeing like, oh gosh, this is a really great. You know. And actually I think it's the idea that it's. People were helped by the fact that I was this open and they were a part of it. They really understood and it was really empowering. And I think that's the biggest shock to me about writing that Book and just in general realizing that I do that in my life in other ways, I just. I am open and I say stuff and I. And just the power of someone in the public eye talking about trauma or mental health or anything actually that people connect to that and think, oh God, I'm not alone. You know, they seem to have got it together and they seem to be okay. But the common thing is that they've got it together because they have talked about it and because they've been open about it. It's like coming out. Coming out in any form is a positive thing. I believe that. And for people who say it isn't, I want to slap them because you are encouraging people to stay in a place of ill health and I just can't. I don't. When people say that, especially to young actors.

[Monica Lewinsky]

For example, I remember a dinner we had in LA long time ago, and you really opened my eyes to something I guess naively hadn't thought about before that before people come out, they are being forced to live a lie.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And I just. I hadn't thought about the weight of living with lies like that. I understood. Okay, yes, of course it's painful, you know, you're hiding in some ways, but somehow the idea that it was a lie and the heaviness of that was really.

[Alan Cumming]

And the sort of. The physical manifestations that are. But potential. Potential physical manifestations of that lie and that secret life for your body, you know, just as you're. In a holistic way is terrible. And I think it's. Nobody, I feel comes out and wishes they hadn't because they. They are immediately embraced, but they also are. It's such a relief. Well, you know when you have a lie and you want to tell people or you've. You know, that something, a secret you wanted. When you tell the secret, it is sometimes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Sometimes you just make sure you tell the secret to the right person in.

[Alan Cumming]

The world to say this sentence to. But okay, you win. But you know what I mean, there's a liberation.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yes.

[Alan Cumming]

From. And I'm sure there was a liberation for you when. I mean even it was. Wasn't there. And like when. When the truth came out about. Oh, God, gosh, not about the affair necessarily, but about the other stuff. Wasn't there. I mean, it was a nightmare, but tangled. Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

It's too so many. And I was so young.

[Alan Cumming]

Tendrils.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But I think.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, but like now, I mean, do you think that happened to me? I did that I made some wrong decisions.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

But now I've Come through it. And I am a happy person. And that's what happened to me. And I'm not going to. You can apologize for things, but it's not. You can't change it. So there's a liberation. And being able to say that happened.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I think for me it was. You know, I think that a lot of the work I had to do when I came out of graduate school and I thought I had gone to graduate school thinking, okay, now I'm gonna start my real life as Monica Lewinsky, whoever I was supposed to be and came out and couldn't. And couldn't get a job. I think that so much of the work I had to do in that. You know, what I call the dark decade, which you were there for and your great inventions.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, that's what I think of you in that way.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, I still have them.

[Alan Cumming]

Honestly, People will not notice that. So those. Those years where you had a wee couple of houses in LA and you would. And you would sort of. And I would go for parties or premieres or things, and I would. You wouldn't be able to come to them because it's public things. And so we'd go into your house or you'd come to my hotel. And all through that time, you would have all these fantastic ideas. Like, I was like, oh, my God, Monica, this is like the best idea. But you've got to, like, get. And that's what you did. You were basically like an inventor.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Exactly. Like a secret inventor.

[Alan Cumming]

Remember the thing with the cans of juice?

[Monica Lewinsky]

The cans of Fizzy Cozcola Cos Cola.

[Alan Cumming]

That was fantastic. So each. You could take a kind of cola. Cola. According to a thing. You want to support a charge. Then there was the thing about the bags. For your bags. Purse, Poncho Love purse Point and snappy names as well. What were the other ones?

[Monica Lewinsky]

There was. Oh, well, this one was. I think kind of came from you. Or maybe you did. Was Star Ruffs or Starbucks. It was supposed to be the dog biscuits at Starbucks for the dogs.

[Alan Cumming]

That's right. That's right. Oh, gosh, they should do that. Do you know, I had another one. I had the one which I still think people should do all the more now when everyone's sort of embracing more feminine things in men's looks. Nail varnish and stuff. Lip salve for men with a bit of color in it called and I thought Mac should do it because I was doing something with Mac Cosmetics. I remember I said this to the head of Mac and he was like, mm, but call It. Makcho. Oh, makcho.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That's brilliant.

[Alan Cumming]

Thank you. Okay.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That's fucking brilliant.

[Alan Cumming]

It's good, isn't it?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, that's really good.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You should listen to this.

[Alan Cumming]

Hello. Hello.

[Monica Lewinsky]

It's not too late. We could both be moguls, honestly.

[Alan Cumming]

But that's what I think of you in that time as you like, sitting in your little house.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I tried. I was the little engine that could. I kept trying.

[Alan Cumming]

You certainly did.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But sort of going, looping back when you had your. I think you called it your nervous B. Nervy. Nervy B. Nervy B. Nervy B. I've used that. Except I've said nervous B. So sorry.

[Alan Cumming]

Fine.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But. So you weren't talking to your dad. But then part of coming wasn't. Part of kind of coming out of that spiral was then totally confronting my father?

[Alan Cumming]

Yes. And it was funny, actually, because it was my mom who suggested it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wow.

[Alan Cumming]

I mean, I. You know, I was in the middle of this thing. I was remembering all these things. I was having a lot of therapy I was doing. You know, I'd had time off to just sort of wade my way through this mire. And I went to talk to my mom about it, and she suggested that I should go and talk to my father, which I was. I don't know, I just didn't see coming. I didn't see her suggesting that she was very much. You know, he was sort of estranged from us. And. But. And then my therapist also suggested. I mean, I think it's, you know, when you. When you. Now it seems like, well, duh, that's the most obvious thing you've got to do in this process. But when you're in the middle of it, you don't. No, you think it's. You don't see any way out, and you don't sort of see a sort of logical trajectory. But obviously any. Confronting your abuser is a really powerful and necessary, if you can, if they're alive and if you have the power and the strength to do so. I did that. I went and my brother came with me. We went to confront my dad, and we. And, you know, he was still living in the house that we'd grown up in and had been, you know, some terrible things had happened in it, violence and stuff. And we would. And he wanted. He. We told him we were going to see. And we hadn't seen him for years at this point. Years. So he knew. I think he knew something was up, and he knew that I was separated by this Point So he knew stuff was going on. But we said to him we'd like to go for a walk. We didn't want. We couldn't go into the house. And I still haven't been able to go into that house. Like I went. I was doing this show with Miriam Margulies when we sort of went around Scotland in a van together and for Channel 4 and I went to the house. I went to the house and it's all been changed now. And there's other, you know, it's lovely. It's not this because it was in a sawmill yard because of the forestry thing and all the sheds that are now. I got kind of whacked thrown across the. By my father are now lovely sort of, you know, rustic homes and well being. So it's a really bizarre. But the people that we sat outside the house that this is where we. I lived in and I just couldn't go inside. Even a couple of years ago. I didn't. I didn't want to. I thought even I don't want to go in with a film crew and be.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh yeah, no, no, no, I don't even know.

[Alan Cumming]

And then my brother, late a couple days later, he went in with my mom. We went back to the house, we went on a walk. And in a way, because of the walk, I could. I can remember it. I remember what happened at different parts of the walk around the estate grounds and. And I'd written it all down. I'd written it all down.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Like. What do you mean?

[Alan Cumming]

I like wrote him a letter that I just wanted to. I wanted to have the backup of making sure that I said all the things that. That we wanted to say. And so I had that. And it was terrifying. I mean, we were both terrified. And I thought my dad was going to hit me at one point. I really thought he was gonna hit me. He had a stick like a kind of, you know, not a walking but like a staff that, you know, you use when you're hiking sort of thing. And he had these boots. And I remember his boots were making this sort of the little tacks and they were making this crunchy noise on the road as we were walking along and he was sort of whacking the stick against the side of his boot, this kind of thing. And I. A couple of the things I said, like I remember when I sort of. I want. I said I want to ask you about your childhood. I'm curious about if this kind of abuse happened to you and if there's some sort of lineage to this. That I'm trying to make sense of this. You know, I was. I was. And I was aware that I was trying not to do too much therapy speak, but obviously I was. But. And. And he said when. I remember at that point he said that. That not. Nothing. Nothing happened to him in his childhood. And, you know, he. He got really angry when I tried to bring that up, and I thought he was going to hit me then. And then also, he. He said. I remember it was a terrible moment when he said about. I said, why did you. Why did you. You know, why do you think you started hitting us? And was it to do with the fact that you. Your ma. You are starting to have affairs outside of the marriage and things? I knew it was your guilt that was making, you know, you were acting out these things. Would you think that was maybe what it was? I was trying. I was really trying to make sense of it. And of course, that. That I realize now is a foolish thing because you're never going to get sense. You're never going to get logic from someone who is mentally ill or.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know me, I'm like, well, maybe, yeah, but, you know.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, so. But it was a necessary part of the process. But he. I remember he said, I. He said my marriage was over three years after Tommy was born. He said that as some sort of, you know, validation or sort of thing. And I remember thinking, wow, thank you so much. That's three years before I was born.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wow.

[Alan Cumming]

And then, right then, I thought he was gonna hit me again as well. So it was incredibly empowering because we said all these things and we said, it's up to you now if you, you know, this is. This happened. We are giving it back to you. I mean, it was. I was obviously doing loads of therapy talk, now that I think about it, but we're giving it back to you. I don't want to carry this anymore. I don't want to carry this. I don't want to feel ashamed of it. I don't want to protect you. I want you to. I am telling you this so that I can move forward. That's what's been wrong with me recently. That's what's happened. That's why my life's been turned upside down. And I'm not. I'm done. We're both done. We're moving, you know, and if you want to be a part of our life, you have to come to us and explain or say something or. We didn't use the word apologize, but, like, say you've got to step up and be a part of it and not ignore this. And so as he went away, he walked away into the nursery, you know, down the steps into where the trees were. It was a nursery where trees were growing. And I remember thinking he had tears in his eyes. I remember thinking he was upset. I could see that. And then we walked away and got into the car, and we were. I was shaking, absolutely shaking. And the funny thing was, Tom said to me, well done, Alan. You didn't. You hardly use the script at all. Like it was some sort of play I'd done. But it was just. We were both just. You know, we'd done this incredible thing. We'd faced our demon, and we'd done it in the place where it happened as well, not in the house. But still, a lot of it happened outside in these grounds and certainly around the house. Lots and lots. Cause we always used. We were always put to work on the estate. So we did that. And it was incredible.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I have a weird question. When you were talking about that, like you were giving it back to him, you were no longer gonna carry this burden. I feel like sometimes when I've been in situations like that, I believe it 80%, and there's still 20%. That's whatever. But when you're telling the story, it sounds like you had 100% conviction.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And so was there any part of you that wasn't sure you were ready to let it go or wasn't sure what would happen, wasn't sure you would be okay with whatever happened?

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, well, absolutely. But what I was absolutely sure about was that I was not. It was not possible for me to continue in my life without some acknowledgement from him that it had happened. And so, you know, giving it back. I suppose giving it back is the wrong thing. It's sort of sharing it. I still have it. I mean, my God, I just remembered something else the other day. And it's, you know, moments that suddenly just come into your mind and you think, you know, and you're. I sort of think, whoa, what happened then? Why am I. Why am I thinking? Why am I remembering this? Or why has that memory been extended a wee bit? And that's why I wrote the second book memoir, because I just so scared that everybody was going to think, oh, it's all fine. It's all wrapped up. You know, especially in America, people love the idea that you do a book saying, hey, I've had this trauma, I've had this abuse, and I'm fine. I grew, you know, I'm a nice, kind person and they think that's the end. And I wanted to partly write this other book was to say actually trauma continues and you just have to deal. You just get better at dealing with it and you. So that this memory that I've been having a lot recently is an example of that. And you know, I'll talk to my brother about it the next time I see him. But it's. You have to make peace with the fact you're not going to get satisfaction. You're not going to get a resolution. Yeah. And not just because my dad's dead, but just. But just that it's. You know, when someone is illogical and irrational and mentally ill, there's not going to be. It's not. It's not all wrapped up nicely.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So sudden. It was interesting. Reminded me of this. Think my therapist talks about a lot that I'm always repeating of her thing that trauma doesn't go away. It's an echo. And the echo. The longer it goes, the sort of more it dissipates.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes. You know, but I suppose new things can come up.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right. Which is what you were saying that you've. It's such an. I've had these kinds of experiences too. And it's so fascinating where something sort of flits in. Right.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And then. And you're kind of like, oh, we've been here before. And then it almost like origami or something or those old. It's like another layer just opens and you're kind of going, what's this?

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, I. That's actually the thing when you said flit sin. That was like. That's my experience of the one time I had a sort of suicidal sort of things. Was what that was what it felt like it was flitted. It was like, you know, your periphery is like this. All this mental periphery. And then all of a sudden it's just sort of like there's a little things and it's just an idea that it becomes an option. It's just. It's not like I'm going to kill myself.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No.

[Alan Cumming]

It's like things are really shit right now. I could do this. That looks horrible. This is. This way is looking awful. Oh, God, do I have to that. And then like, oh, that's. That's another option.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

And then, you know. And that's. That was. That scared me because of the way that it just flitted in. And so the way that thoughts and sort of. And like negative thoughts I think are more flitters in that Way I remember.

[Monica Lewinsky]

For me, it would often be. I would just. I feel like I would just pray to not wake up.

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, darn it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You know, so. But it's. But you're talking about suicide. I don't know if you remember. I'm fairly certain I told you and Grant that probably over 10 years ago, I had this insane, intense dream where I had gotten on a roller coaster in Las Vegas that was. It was like six people standing next to each other. And you would get on at this very high thing. Six people get on, and it drops. And the whole point was. It was a suicide ride. The whole point was like, you do not get off the ride.

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And halfway down, I changed my mind. And you and Grant flew up. Oh, and you got me out. And then you flew.

[Alan Cumming]

I do remember this.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. And I just, you know. And that's sort of what was interesting to me about that dream and so kind of reinforced in this conversation for me, too, is just around. We don't always talk about the details of the pain between us. Like, I feel like when we see each other, oh, this happened, and this happened. Oh, this was hard, and this was hard. But there's sort of that. There's that deep. There's that sort of silent language of trauma.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And so sometimes I think when you. Because I have the friends. Right. That were always, you know, all the details and all the this and all the that all the time. And that dream just really showed me how much you guys mean to me and.

[Alan Cumming]

And likewise, you know, that. Yeah. We love you so much.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I love you guys.

[Alan Cumming]

You know what I dreamt about recently? I saw Anna Wintour coming out of the shower. And my thing with my thing was. I don't know why, but my thing was I went you hair. Because you never see her hair without her little helmet hair. And she had wet hair. Like people.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay, you have to tell me what your therapist says that meant.

[Alan Cumming]

I haven't told him yet. I forgot to talk about dreams this week.

[Monica Lewinsky]

This has been amazing. I'm so grateful to you for being here, my darling.

[Alan Cumming]

Thank you. I always love chatting with you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know. And we really.

[Alan Cumming]

It's so great we get a chance to just do it. Don't have to eat.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know.

[Alan Cumming]

Go elsewhere.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And there aren't other people interrupting the conversation.

[Alan Cumming]

It's so true.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Two big egos.

[Alan Cumming]

I thought that when I did my podcast, it was during COVID It was just such a nice way to talk to people, to get to talk to your friends.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

But it's Kind of a sad indictment that you have to do a podcast in order to get a proper chat, isn't it? We need to make sure we have.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know more.

[Alan Cumming]

We should go on retreats, Monica, you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And I. Oh, I'm down for it.

[Alan Cumming]

Go and see if it can come.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, exactly. Grant's allowed. And Mary Darling.

[Alan Cumming]

And Mary darling. We can go to our house in the country.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alan Cumming]

Or in our new house in Scotland.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. You sent me photos. I'm very jealous.

[Alan Cumming]

It's so beautiful.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Alan Cumming]

I just love it so much. I love it so much.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Beautiful.

[Alan Cumming]

I feel completely at peace.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Whole.

[Alan Cumming]

Whole. Yes, I feel whole. Sounds dirty.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Only you.

[Alan Cumming]

Like this lady in Edinburgh who has a bagel shop. She's in Montreal. She named a bagel after me and it's called bross. Her name's Lara Bross and it's called brosses bagels. And she. And her whole thing is fill your hole. That's her sort of motto of the bagel shop. And when she wanted to do a bagel named after me, she wanted to call it coming in your hole. And I said, no, no, we will not. And I called it the wholesome coming. Instead, I kind of flipped it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, I think that's better.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I don't have a bagel named after me.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah, well, yet life is long.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. I do not even want to encourage that, actually. I know. Cut. That's an erase part of that. No, really. Thank you so much for this.

[Alan Cumming]

Total pleasure.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF media studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez Wren and Emily Feldbrake. And executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin o'flaherty and Marshall Louie.