Allison Janney

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky

Host: Monica Lewinsky (A)

Guest: Allison Janney (B)

Episode Air Date: October 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Reclaiming features a candid, funny, and deeply moving conversation between Monica Lewinsky and acclaimed actress Allison Janney. The two explore the concept of "reclaiming" through the lens of Allison's remarkable career, her spiritual curiosity, personal grief, roles that challenged her, and her journey toward self-acceptance. Themes of late blooming success, resilience through grief, the search for meaning, non-traditional lives, and finding peace outside of societal expectations are woven throughout the episode.

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Major Discussion Themes and Insights

1. How Monica and Allison Met; Friendship Memories

• A trip down memory lane: Monica recalls meeting Allison at a dinner party (~03:00) and shares quirky stories—like an impromptu canoe ride and paranormal “woo woo” experiences with broken glasses.
  • [05:03] Allison: “I was in the middle, and you two were rowing me through the canals...I have no idea how I got here.”
• Their friendship is marked by magical coincidences and a shared love of spiritual tangents and dinner parties.

2. Spirituality, Woo Woo, and Searching for Connection

• Both women share an interest in astrology, psychic readings, and spiritual signs, especially as a form of meaning-making after loss.
  • [06:52] Allison: “I’m a Scorpio with Cancer in my moon and Pisces rising. So I’m a triple water sign.”
• Allison confides in using signs (her initials on license plates, for example) to feel connected to departed loved ones.
  • [09:51] “If I see my initials on a license plate, I know I’m at the right place at the right time.”

3. Early Life, Theatre Roots, and Mentorship from Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward

• Grew up in Boston, then Ohio; attended Kenyon College.
  • [11:19] Allison: “Paul [Newman] came back to Kenyon to direct… he and Joanne were instrumental in getting me to come to New York and become a member of the Actors Studio.”
• The esteem and support from Newman bolstered Allison’s confidence, helping mitigate imposter syndrome.
• She shares, sometimes just having someone believe in you is as good as any “favor.”

4. Late-Blooming Success and Perseverance

• Allison’s major breakthroughs came in her late 30s/early 40s after years of professional rejection.
  • [14:09] “My career didn’t take off till I was 38. I did a soap opera…then Broadway…and finally West Wing at 40.”
• Candid about failed auditions for major sitcoms and the insecurity of seeing one’s audition tapes collecting dust as set decorations!

5. Portraying Iconic Women: CJ Cregg and Beyond

• Discusses how CJ Cregg’s character on The West Wing reflected both her own vulnerabilities and Sorkin’s writing.
  • [18:16] “A lot of CJ’s humor, femininity, and vulnerability was from me; her smarts came from Aaron.”
• How stepping into political roles (The West Wing, The Diplomat) shaped her worldview.
  • Current role (The Diplomat), working closely with Brad Whitford, draws on years of shared history on The West Wing.
  • [19:27] “We’ve been arguing in fake government buildings for 25 years.”

6. Approach to Acting and Research

• Prefers to ground her performances in the present rather than exhaustive backstory.
  • [21:24] “I call it working from the far side of a fart…That doesn’t really help me much.”
• Extensive research, however, is crucial when playing real people (e.g., working with Hugh Jackman in Bad Education).

7. Choosing Roles, Escaping Typecasting, and Career Variety

• Theater background made her comfortable with variety and versatility.
• Happy to be a “character actress,” not pigeonholed by TV/movie industry.

8. Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy and Mental Health

• Allison opens up about using ketamine, mushrooms, and MDMA as therapeutic tools after the loss of her mother and brother.
  • [27:37] “It’s the best thing I ever did for myself—to feel the release from all, all the heaviness…nothing but love and loved.”
• She stresses the importance of medical supervision and intention-setting in those experiences.
• Monica expresses curiosity about but has not yet tried psychedelics.

9. Grief, Family, and Loss

• Deep discussion of losing her younger brother Hal to addiction, and mother to illness.
  • Their relationships, Allison’s grief, and reframing her roles (Mom) in tribute to Hal.
  • [34:52] “[Hal] loved magic, he loved to perform...he could talk to anyone about anything...I wanted him to want to be here so badly, and he just did not want to be here.”
  • [36:11] “He just couldn’t find a place to land”—Allison quoting her father at Hal’s memorial.
• Acting as a tool for empathy and honoring those lost—Mom was chosen explicitly in Hal’s memory.

10. Nontraditional Life Choices: Marriage, Kids, and Fulfillment

• Both share a sense of not following the expected life script and processing feelings about marriage and motherhood.
  • Allison had long relationships but didn’t marry or have children; her “true love” are her dogs.
    • [40:24] “Animals, and especially dogs, are my heart.”
  • Conversation on expressing love in WASPy families via pets—dogs as sources of unconditional affection.
• Honest about fertility pressures and lack of education around women’s health and menopause.

11. Sexuality, Aging, and Body Confidence

• Addresses Instagram rumors about her sexuality after appearing on the “lesbian bus.”
  • [45:46] “I loved being on the lesbian bus. It was freaking fun...But I’m not a lesbian.”
  • Laughs at rumors, jokes about the “night being young,” but has not had a lesbian experience yet.
• Revels in embracing different looks for red carpet (notably, her pantless look at the Las Culturistas Awards) by “playing a role” at public events—though most comfortable in sweats and a T-shirt.

12. The Importance of Friendships and Searching for “Additive” Partners

• Monica and Allison reflect on how, at their stage of life, close friendships often provide the intimacy and support once sought in romantic relationships.
• A humorous acknowledgment of the “complicated” men both are drawn to and the ongoing pattern of self-exploration.

13. Tech Tsunami & Changing Industry

• Allison expresses gratitude that she’s established, as the acting profession contends with threats from AI and rapidly changing landscapes.
  • [54:18] “There’s an AI actor who’s being signed by what agency…I’m so grateful I’m not starting out right now.”

14. Reclaiming the Self and Pursuing Stillness

• Allison’s current journey involves reclaiming her identity outside work, relationships, or external validation:
  • [51:47] “Reclaiming who I am without being with anybody or associated with a job or a part or anything. Reclaiming my center and peace of mind.”
• Dream of a silent retreat to reset and find inner quiet (which Monica jokes would be hard for her!).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [09:51] Allison on “signs” after loss:
  “If I see my initials on a license plate, I know I’m at the right place at the right time.”
• [13:15] Allison on Paul Newman’s support:
  “Paul said to me, if you ever need a favor, you can call me, but make it very specific…Just having that in my pocket made me feel confident.”
• [18:16] Allison on CJ Cregg:
  “A lot of CJ’s humor, femininity, and vulnerability was from me; her smarts came from Aaron.”
• [27:37] Allison on ketamine therapy:
  “It’s the best thing I ever did for myself…just goes. And I felt nothing but love and loved.”
• [34:52] Allison on her brother Hal:
  “He loved magic…he could talk to anybody about anything…when he was around me, I just always felt more relaxed and comfortable.”
• [36:11] On Hal’s legacy:
  “He just couldn’t find a place to land.”
• [40:24] Allison on dogs:
  “Animals, and especially dogs, are my heart.”
• [45:46] On Instagram "lesbian bus" rumors:
  “I loved being on the lesbian bus. It was freaking fun…But I’m not a lesbian.”
• [51:47] On reclaiming her identity:
  “Reclaiming who I am without being with anybody or associated with a job or a part or anything. Reclaiming my center and my peace of mind…”

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Key Timestamps

• [03:00] First meeting, dinner party, and woo-woo stories
• [06:44] Astrology, spiritual seeking, and signs from the universe
• [11:19] Kenyon College, Paul Newman mentorship
• [14:09] Rejection in acting; career taking off at 38/40
• [17:37] CJ Cregg and influence on character
• [19:27] Working again in government roles (The Diplomat)
• [27:37] Psychedelic therapy and healing after loss
• [34:52] Remembering her brother Hal
• [40:24] On not having children; love for dogs
• [45:46] “Lesbian bus” Instagram rumors; sexuality
• [51:47] What Allison is reclaiming now: her center, herself

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Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, irreverent, and deeply honest—marked by Monica’s openness, Allison’s humor and vulnerability, and their clear affection for one another. They fluidly move from laughter over cat tales and red carpets, to poignant reflections on grief, aging, and the search for meaning.

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Transcript

[A]

Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

When I was doing Bad education with.

[A]

I really want to dig deeper into why Hugh Jackman Hugh Jackman When I.

[B]

Was doing that with Hugh Jackman oh Lord.

[A]

Reclaiming is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Thank you to our presenting sponsor. Peloton Let yourself run Lift Floor Flow and go explore the new peloton cross training tread [e-mail] Reclaiming is brought to you by Audible Emmy Award winner Kerry Washington returns as Dr. Virginia Edwards in Audible's heart pounding supernatural thriller the Prophecy Season 2. Picture this. A mother on the run protecting her miracle child from a sinister cult leader who'll stop at nothing to find them. But Virginia Edwards is no ordinary mom. Haunted by visions and guided by an ancient prophecy, she's about to discover her true power as both protector and chosen one. With an all star cast, this supernatural thriller will keep you on the edge of your seat and wondering when everything's at stake, who can you really trust? Evil is rising. Time is running out. Don't miss Kerry Washington in Audible's Must Listen event of the Year. Some stories change you forever. This one just might save humanity. Start listening to The Prophecy Season 2 today at audible.com the Prophecy 2 or wherever you get your podcasts. Alison, I am so thrilled to have you here today on Reclaiming.

[B]

I am very happy to be here. Finally. We've talked about this.

[A]

I know. Okay, now this is when I think we met. You can tell me if this is what jives with you. Otherwise I've totally implanted you like Where's Waldo? Just scenes in my life, but I think it was about 25 years ago at Cameron Manheim.

[B]

Yep, that's it.

[A]

Yes, there was like this big dinner party and I remember it so vividly because there was this wackadoodle thing that happened where I don't know if you remember this part so someone was telling a story that they and their family had been deep into Scientology and then they had tried to get out of Scientology, and they were telling us this, like, very involved story about all the things that happened.

[B]

And this is ringing true to me, but I can't remember who it was.

[A]

I remember it because then I was saying how I had this friend in high school, she became a Scientologist, and it actually. It really changed her life and turned her life around in some positive ways. So another friend of mine and I did the intro course there.

[B]

You did?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Because she, like, asked us to, and so we did.

[B]

That must have been fascinating. Did they put the things on you to.

[A]

Well, yeah, we did the E meter thing at the end, and that was sort of where I. Why I didn't actually continue. Because you have to pass the test in order to go on. And one of the questions was around, you know, did you learn everything you needed to learn from the course, or do you understand everything? And I was like, well, I think I do, but I wouldn't know if I didn't. You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't know. So I just. The whole thing was not for me. And so I chimed in with this story about. I was like, well, it was not for me. And, you know, and I thought maybe it was Cameron, because I remember someone with really dry, fantastic humor was then like, yeah, but look what happened to you after. Which is why I remember that, because it was such a great.

[B]

This is what I remember. And I can't believe, you know. Do you remember being in a canoe with me?

[A]

Oh, my God, that's right.

[B]

And Karen Manheim. And I was in the middle, and you two were rowing me through the canals, and I literally. People were walking by. I was like, yeah, I know. I have no idea how I got here. My life. I'm right. I'm here with Monica Lewinsky and Karen Manheim, rowing me through the canals of menace.

[A]

That's so funny. I forgot that part.

[B]

It was the only thing I remembered. It was such a. Such a moment for me.

[A]

Yeah. And then we didn't see each other for a really long time, and then reconnected a few years ago at Cade's, and you introduced me to Lily Kershaw, who, if anyone doesn't know her music is, like, an unbelievable singer, songwriter, so.

[B]

Talented and such a lovely person, too. And then we started having dinners together with the three of us.

[A]

I know. Which is really lovely. I was thinking about the last time we had dinner together. We had a crazy thing happen with a glass. Do you want to.

[B]

Well, now I'm going to. You're going to probably tell it better than I am, but I know something magical happened and it involved me or picking up a glass and the stem just stayed on the table in my glass.

[A]

It just cracked. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean it was so I just.

[B]

It was. It was a bizarre moment.

[A]

It was a really weird moment. And I think almost as bizarre is that because we're all kind of woo woo. Yeah, right. That we were all like, wow, what the fuck is that? That's crazy. But then also okay. Like we're okay. It's kind of witchy, but what does it mean?

[B]

I remember. I wish I could remember what we were talking about at that very moment. If it was a sign from. You know.

[A]

I don't remember now. Have you always been into woo woo?

[B]

I don't know when I started being into. Definitely was into astrology and finding out doing. Having my chart done and.

[A]

Me too. What's your.

[B]

I'm a whole. I was born November 19, 1959. And I was born. I'm a Scorpio with cancer in my moon and Pisces rising. So I'm a triple water sign, which is gotta be.

[A]

That makes sense because you. Well, you're sensitive and I think it's your sensitivity that you really uniquely bring to so many of your varied roles.

[B]

I'm sure maybe that's gotta be it. But I just love that kind of stuff and doing it. Going to. Not fortune tellers. What do you call it? Psychics. Going to psychics. I love all that I saw. I met with Laura Lynn Jackson, the woman who did. You did? Yeah.

[A]

I didn't have a session with her, but I know her socially.

[B]

That book Signs is so great.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And I've never met her socially, but I did do a session with her private session on the phone, which is really interesting. And I have to go back and listen to it. I don't know why it interests me, but I'm fascinated by it. I love to hear. I want to get. I have a new great nephew and I want to get his chart done to see. You know, it's a fun world to me because I'm not really religious per se. I mean I grew up Episcopalian, which is Catholic light, I guess they call it. And we went to like. I went to church Christmas Eve and Easter Sunday and that was about it. And then this is the worst thing that happened to me when I was young. I did. I was Confirmed. I went through the whole confirmation process and I had this teacher or whatever religious guide who was. The group of us was before we got confirmed. We had lessons with him and he told me that God was on the other side of a brick wall and you had to knock it down to get to him. And I remember thinking as a girl, I was like, that seems so difficult. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that. But that was my experience with religion. And then I think I just went to the, like. I think I'm going to be more spiritual and lean into that side of things.

[A]

Well, I think there's something about, you know, that the astrology and intuitives and, you know, all sorts of different healing modalities and stuff that it's really underneath all the woo woo is a searching, you know, you're searching to understand the universe or searching to understand yourself.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, So I mean, I think that when I. I mean, that's definitely. I feel like this lifetime, that's definitely a quest I'm on and.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I think you too.

[B]

You know, it's overwhelming to me sometimes I like to think, you know, because I've lost my. My mother and my brother. And that's why I was looking into Laura Lynn Jackson, looking for signs and asking for them and just. I want to feel that connection to those that have. Have gone on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And I look for them. This is stupid. But I. If I see my. No, if I see my initials and the license plate, I know I'm. This is.

[A]

Okay. Well, it doesn't sound the right place.

[B]

At the right time. And I do. Sometimes I. Or I see ja. Or I'll see it. I'll go, okay, I'm where I'm supposed to be.

[A]

Well, my version of that is triple numbers on a license plate.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I have a. I see. There are days where I will see 20 cars that have the same triple numbers, which again, like back to permutations, is not in. You know, that's not. It's not.

[B]

You would have loved my last car. I had 666, which I was not quite sure was a good thing, but it was a triple thing. I was like. And then I started thinking, well, that's like the Greek thing. You wear the bad thing to ward off bad thing. Like the Greek evil.

[A]

Either that or you're actually the devil.

[B]

I'm the devil.

[A]

Have you played. Have you played the devil yet?

[B]

Maybe not. I think I'd like to. I would love to play a female devil. I'D be the most charming person in the room. That's who the devil is. Right?

[A]

Right. Yeah, it's true. Well, you've done a lot in shows with politics, so that's.

[B]

That's very true.

[A]

That's close. Close enough. So you were born in Ohio, and then you.

[B]

I was born in Boston, actually.

[A]

Boston. Okay.

[B]

My father was in business school in Boston, and then they moved us to Cincinnati and then to Dayton, Ohio. So that's where I grew up, mostly.

[A]

Okay. And then you went to Kenyon College, which is also in Ohio. Right. And this. I was so fascinated. I wanted to hear this story behind that. Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward sort of spotted you and encouraged you.

[B]

He was. They had built a beautiful new theater at Kenyon College called the Bullet. And it was a beautiful thrust stage. And for those of you who don't know what a thrust stage is, is it pushed out into the audience and surrounded three quarters by the audience. And Michael Christoffer, who had won the Pulitzer Prize for writing the play Shadowbox, wrote a new play to be to christen the new theater. And Paul was his friend. And Paul went to Kenyon College. So he came back to Kenyon to direct this play called Cece Pyle and the Bunyan Derby. It never went anywhere else. Oh, my gosh. But it was done.

[A]

I can't believe you remember that name.

[B]

Oh, my God. Y. It was a wild time in my life, a very important time for me as a young girl who. First year in college, and I got cast in this production. I was basically a glorified showgirl. That's all. I was just a flapper kind of on this foot race across the country that the play was about. But I did get to work with him, and Joanne was there. And Paul and Joanne were just lovely and instrumental to getting me to come to New York and become a member of the Actors Studio. And Joanne spent a lot of her time working with us young actors, creating opportunities for us to do theater and to have agents come see you, because you couldn't get an agent unless they saw you in something. And, you know, she just did so much for me and my career, starting it off. And it all started at college because Paul went there. So I was really. It was a really, really great relationship I had with them.

[A]

Did that allow you? Like. I'm thinking about how, for me, at various points, even before I was in DC, I. I started working when I was 15 and a half, but that there was always something about sort of someone who was more senior or more expert that if they, like, acknowledged you or thought you belonged somewhere, that it took away some of that imposter syndrome. Did this give you a sense of confidence?

[B]

Yeah, because Paul did. He said to me that if you ever need a favor, you can call me, he said, but make it very specific. And I was like, I could never think of the favor to ask him for, but I always had it in my pocket. So it made me feel confident that, well, Paul Newman thinks, you know, wants to do me a favor. And I would always think, is this the one? No, no, this isn't good enough. I kept waiting for the best one to happen, but I think it didn't even matter. Knowing that he would do it gave me a lot of confidence. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's really. It's really amazing to be able to have that. That sense of belonging, I think, and acceptance in a world that is full of a lot of rejection, too. You know, I imagine that would have helped. I mean, I don't know. Have you ever been rejected for role?

[B]

Oh, my God, yes. I mean, I, you know, I auditioned for. There's so many, but these are ones that people will know. I auditioned for Frasier, for Perry Gilpin's role.

[A]

Oh, I know Perry.

[B]

Yeah, I love Perry. She's one of my dear friends. Then I auditioned for a third Rock from the Sun, Kristen Johnson's role that I auditioned, and we ended up working together on mom and She's a Friend. So there were lots of times. And at the time when I was auditioning in New YORK in the 80s, you were put on tape and they'd send the tapes out to California. And I was convinced that the plane was dumping my tapes in the middle country. I was like, the middle states there. My tapes are somewhere. And then I remember being on the set of the West Wing and the set deck had all these things in my. In CJ's office, and I pulled out one of them, and it was an audition tape of somebody's. I was like, that's where these are. They're filling sets all over Hollywood. And anyone could go look at my. I mean, oh, my Lord. That was pretty funny. But, yeah, there were so many things I auditioned for that I didn't get. I mean, listen, I should have called Paul for that favor a year. I mean, because my career didn't take off till I was 38. You know, I was doing. When I finally got. I did a soap opera.

[A]

Oh, wait, which one?

[B]

Guiding Light.

[A]

Okay. I used to watch that.

[B]

Played Ginger, the bad maid with a bad Brooklyn accent. Okay.

[A]

I might have not. Still been watching then.

[B]

I. I work for the Spaldings. Remember the Spaldings? Yeah. I worked for them, all right. And then I did as the World Turns, I think, one episode. And then I, you know, then I finally got a Broadway show, and then I. It just slowly started working. But not till I was in my, you know, late 30s.

[A]

That you became a household name. Because, I mean.

[B]

Well, not even. No, no. I would not say a household name. I was on Broadway, and then I didn't do West Wing Till I was 1999, 2000. So then I was in my 40s. Early, early, early. Or maybe I was just turning 40. So.

[A]

Yeah. I didn't know that you had gone to RADA also. Did you go right after college?

[B]

No. I went to the Neighborhood Playhouse in New York, and I got a fellowship from there that allowed me to go study at RADA for a summer program. And it was fantastic to go and have my little student id. I could go see the theater every night for, like, five bucks or something. It was. It was just an amazing opportunity.

[A]

Going to the theater in London is. I mean, Broadway is amazing, but, I don't know. The West End is the West End.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

And they always come over to New York and take all our Tonys.

[A]

Yeah. It's interesting because I was thinking about, you know, I did not watch until just a few years ago after I got to know Aaron, I think, because it came out right. Right after 1998, and I was like, no more White House. And always terrified that, you know, there might be an intern joke in there or something, which there wasn't. So. But it was. I think the character of C.J. craig is one of the best women characters he's drawn. And I'm curious. I was curious around because you were in your late 30s, early 40s, like, and you're sort of. You're baked as a person in many ways. At that point, do you feel like you influenced who CJ Craig was or CJ Influenced you? Because I feel there's, like. When you're with you, it's so easy to remember that character that you've played.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. I think Aaron liked to be around the people he was writing for to get a sense of who they were. And I would always try to hide from him because I was like. I didn't want him to know what an idiot I was. But, no, I mean, but politics. I'm like, I grew up in a family. You didn't discuss politics. It was you know, pass the peas, you know, pass the bread, whatever. We didn't talk about social issues or politics, anything like that. So I just wasn't steeped in it. I grew up during Watergate era, and it was like, you don't trust politicians. You don't, you know, and, well, yeah.

[A]

Really.

[B]

What a simple time that was now. So I just. I wasn't comfortable speaking, so I didn't. But I think that he. A lot of CJ's humor and femininity and vulnerability was from me, and her smarts came from Aaron, you know, that kind of being able to. You know what I mean, Fairly. Cause I'm not that I'm not smart, but CJ could throw down and with the facts, with the. They were all right there. She was nowhere near menopause or peri. Her mind was sharp and as sharp as attack. And that was so much fun for me to get to play. It was just like catnip, catnip for me as an actress to get to play a woman like that, you know, I'm sure.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think one of the most memorable. I feel like one of the most memorable female characters that we've seen in general, like, in decades. You know, I know you were saying you didn't grow up in a house that talked a lot about politics, but you did the West Wing, and now you're doing the Diplomat.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And so. So does getting inside those characters, living in those worlds, does that shape how you see or understand power or.

[B]

You know, playing Grace Penn on the Diplomat is. I was laughing with Brad, and I said, brad Whitford, who's playing my husband this season. And I said, you and I basically have been arguing in fake government buildings for 25 years.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I have this. I wrote down this weird question that I want to ask you about that, which is, you know, on the West Wing, you were Colle. CJ and Josh were colleagues, and now you're playing husband and wife. Is it weird? Like, is that weird?

[B]

You know, when I thought about it, because I saw we had to do a bedroom scene, and I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be interesting. But the characters are so different. And I think the history that Brad and I have shared together is baked into our relationship on the Diplomat. It feels like we have a whole history together of a relationship, and even though we're playing a married couple, it feels so comfortable. I feel like I have been married to Brad for. You know, I spent more time with him than I spent with my family during those seven years of 18 hour days back when you did 23 episodes or 24 episodes a season, you know, nobody does that anymore. And we didn't have cell phones back then either. So we really spent time together, hanging out in trailers together, hanging out on set, just all. You know, we became a family. So it doesn't feel. And the characters are so different. I think people are. They're Gonna think about C.J. and Josh, but when they see the diplomat, they're gonna forget about them. Cause these are totally different characters.

[A]

Jurnee Smollett was on. I talked to her for the show. She's amazing. A few weeks ago, and she was talking about her process that is so involved and really interesting of, like, creating a whole backstory and a book of some sorts, like, around her characters. Do you have a similar.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

As I call it, it's working on the. I have worked with one actress that she would come in with all this stuff, and I was like. I called it working from the far side of a fart. So two days ago, I ate bean stew, which Cricket. I'm like, oh, I can't. I can't do it. Doesn't really help me much. Whatever can ground me in the scene, I will use. Knowing that I, you know, went to school or, you know, had. It doesn't help me. For some reason, it doesn't help me. I think about where the character is, where whatever I can think of that happened before, it might not be the character. It might be something that happened to me that helps me relate to the character. But. But creating their backstory, I don't know. It's not my first way of wanting to work. If I'm working on someone who is real, then I'll look tons. Like. When I did Bad Education with one of the most famous actors. And I'm an idiot because I. Hugh Jackman, for fuck's sake. When I. Okay, let me think back when I was doing Bad Education with. With.

[A]

I really want to dig deeper into why Hugh Jackman.

[B]

Hugh Jackman. When I was doing that with Hugh Jackman. Oh, Lord. I was playing a real character, and I had reams and reams of research. That's when that kind of stuff helps me knowing. And. Yeah, so I looked through all that, and it was just fun to know it. But to do that kind of work for a character that's made up is. It's almost too overwhelming for me. So I start in a more simpler way of working.

[A]

Right. I was really sort of taking in the breadth of your career. And the varied roles that you've taken, how have you chosen your roles?

[B]

Well, I'm lucky that I didn't get typecast as something. And I think about my history in the theater. When you grow up in the theater, you're always doing different kinds of roles, different styles of roles in different plays, from Noel Coward to Arthur Miller to, you know, Phaedo Forest or something. And they're always completely different characters because you're an actor. And then when you get into Hollywood, television or movies, and they see you as one thing, you know, that can be obviously limiting and frustrating. And I think that because I had done so many, you know, a thing like Drop Dead Gorgeous, that movie. And so a lot of people, not everyone, but it was sort of an underground cult hit movie. And then I do cj, so people go, oh, you know, you can see that I can do more than one thing. And I feel really lucky about that. And I think it's because I wasn't. I'm just. I'm known as a character actress, I think, which is a compliment to me, I think.

[A]

Yeah. And then you think about, you know, the character you played in mom that you won your Oscar for playing the mom in I, Tonya. But then you've got CJ and on the Diplomat. I don't know why I'm forgetting the name of your character on the Diplomat.

[B]

Grace Penn.

[A]

Grace Penn.

[B]

I remember her name.

[A]

Okay. I think as long as I remember Alison, Monica. We're good.

[B]

We're good. You and me. We're good. We're good. Kate.

[A]

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[B]

Okay, the devil. The devil. The more I get asked that a lot and I never know. It's always when I read it, I'll know. I'm so driven by that, by the writing is the most important thing to me as an actress when I read it and I go, oh, yeah, Yes, I want to play this part. I want to play. And usually it's the more complicated, the better, the more, oh, they're this. But oh my God, they're this. They have this going on here. And that's really fun to play. So I can't say I don't know what it is, but it's out there.

[A]

I think what's interesting is in our friendship, I know, you know, from personal conversations, right. Of just the kinds of self exploration that we've done. And so this is interesting to me because what you're looking for are the layers, right? The layers of a person. And you search for layers of yourself in that way, you know? And I think we're both kind of those people who I've. I've done everything but the psychedelics yet. But you were talking to me about that.

[B]

I have done assisted ketamine journey with a doctor here in Los Angeles, but it's all about set and setting, of course. And to do it in an office with a doctor is. It's an amazing experience for me. It was at a time in my life where I just lost my mother. It was right after Covid and I was in such a dark place and I heard about this kind of therapy and I went to this doctor and it was some of the best thing is the best thing I ever did for myself to feel that, to feel the release from all, all the heaviness, all worry, everything, it just goes. And I felt nothing but love and loved. It was giving me new pathways in my brain, I guess, to know that I could feel that way or I have just knowing that. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense.

[A]

But it's making sense to me.

[B]

But knowing that, that I felt that way, I can think about Feeling that way when I just close my eyes and try to remember being there. And it was so helpful. It was incredible. And I was obviously so sad that Matthew went that way because he is such a. I just loved him so, so much. And obviously he was using it in ways that he shouldn't be using it.

[A]

Were you close to Matthew Perry?

[B]

I worked with him on West Wing and on Studio 60 and I did that, this short lived show called Mr. Sunshine with him and I just loved him. He just, he met. Said one of the funniest things to me because sometimes I tend to mumble if I'm talking and I sort of give up on my sentence halfway and I just go like. And I was doing that with him because I was so sort of intimidated by him because he's so funny in there. And I was saying something to him and I just thought maybe he had lost in. So I like this. And he said, Alison, did you even hear what you just said? Matthew, I get your part. No, he just made me laugh so much.

[A]

He's very close to. Do you know Robin Roseanne?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, so he, my friend Robin and Maddie were very, very close. And I met him a couple times through her. And he. Even with all the heaviness and sadness that he held, that you could feel, there was that sort of equal and opposite light, you know, that he sort of. It's like his resonance or his vibration went to a higher place than what most of us go to. And so you would feel like, I think when he was in a place, I didn't see him when he was in a bad place, so I didn't know him that well. But. But when you were around him when he was in a good place, it was like the warmest sunshine, you know.

[B]

I loved working with him so much, hanging around him, being him. He was always. When I saw him, he was always on and always very funny and just.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then to go on with your question, I also did some other therapy with mushrooms and with mdma and those were all wonderful tools too. I can't imagine doing some of these things, thinking that people do ketamine at a club. I'd be like, oh my God, no, you don't want to be too ketamine in a club. It's not, it's not for that kind of experience. It's for being in an office with a doctor.

[A]

Right. I have not. This is like the one. It's really the one path I have not gone down yet. I imagine I will at some point.

[B]

Well, I brought Some with me today. Oh. I thought you and I could do a little experiment.

[A]

Exactly. Surprise. This is an intervention.

[B]

You should try it.

[A]

I mean, so I'm just curious because. So if you did those three different things, were they different?

[B]

Yeah, they were different. Experience different.

[A]

How were they different or how did it interact?

[B]

Well, there's different time commitment. First of all, the ketamine in the doctor's office is a one hour ticket, as I call it. One hour from start to finish. You're in and you're out and that's it. The mushroom. And the mushroom is a longer. I think that's more of a five to six hour commitment. And the MDMA is. I can't remember. It's been so long since I did that one. I don't think it was long.

[A]

Is that the longest?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think the mushroom was the longest. But again, you have someone there with you. And a lot of the times it's just about going in. And I always listen to music and just. You have to say something before an intention. And I always say, show me what I need to see. Show me what I need to see.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

The medicine usually takes you there or you see, you go to places that you need to look at. But it's always that about setting the intention before you go into these things. So you're not. It's not fearful. It's like you want to go on this journey to help yourself find, unlock something in yourself that you need to see or get in touch with something that you need to be in touch with. It helped me enormously with different relationships in my life that I have trouble with. And it helped me see a way to look at it differently. And I don't know, I just find it just really a great tool.

[A]

I know you mentioned earlier too about having lost your brother. And did that feel, when you lost your mom, did the grief feel compounded for you?

[B]

Yeah, because they were the two. Not that I love my dad and my brother, but my older brother. But I was closest with Hal, my younger brother and my mom. We were, you know, I was closer to them in the family. I talked, shared more with them and especially my brother. So that was a really hard. That was when the rug just pulled. I didn't understand the world after that happened because, you know, when you always say when something like that happens and the world still moves, you're like, no, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait. You just want to stop because you can't understand what's just happened. And that grief was enormous. And it never goes away. It's just there. And you grow through it. And my mom, too, just like. God. It's just. You feel like, you know, they brought you to a party and they left without you. That kind of feeling when they're like, you left me. And then some ways it makes me feel not as afraid to die because I know they're there. So I go, God, maybe I know they're there, so I'm not as afraid of. I'm not as afraid. And that feels good, too. So there's, you know, good things you can find in it. And grief.

[A]

When Beanie Feldstein was on. She's a counselor at a grief camp every year. Oh, how wonderful. And so she just. She taught me so much. And she was saying that it's the thing that people often don't do that can be appreciated. So I'll ask you, which is. What was Hal like?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. First of all, he was incredibly funny. The best sense of humor he got me. So we would laugh at the same things a lot. He loved magic. He loved to do magic tricks. And he loved. He was like. He loved to perform. He was a musician. He was so charming. He was a great. He could host. He could talk to anybody. I was so jealous of him that way because he could talk to anybody about anything. I was like, oh. And I used to love to have him with me as my date, too. He went to some award shows with me in the beginning. And I just always felt. I just was so happy when he was with me, you know, he was so. Just so amusing and so fun, and I could be anywhere in the world and call him and I'd say, hey, do you feel like just coming to Hawaii tomorrow? And he'd go, yeah, sure, I'll come. And he'd be there. I just always felt more relaxed and comfortable when he was on my arm, you know, it was just. And it was just so upsetting to see that he was. Cause he was an addict, alcoholic addict. And he just couldn't. I wanted him to. To want to be here so badly, and he just did not want to be here, you know, and didn't find a place to land, as my father said. Which always broke my heart when he said he just couldn't find a place to land.

[A]

You know, that's actually a really poetic, beautiful. I haven't heard that.

[B]

Yeah, my father said that at his memorial. And I just. It resonated with me, like, that's exactly right. He couldn't find a place to land because he tried. He did so many things and nothing ever stuck. You couldn't. Just didn't find the thing and went to the other thing. Yeah.

[A]

And was that connected to. Because on mom. Right. You played someone in recovery.

[B]

Yeah. And that's why I took it because of Hal. I mean, I thought what a great thing to do in his honor to show people in recovery what that looks like and how. And it did help a lot of people in recovery. You got so many letters and about how that show helped people get sober or stay sober. And that made me feel really, really great that I was able to do that. And I couldn't do it for my brother, but doing it for other people felt good. Yeah.

[A]

I'm so sorry.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You know, we've talked about not having had kids and not having been married or married yet. I don't know. It's so fascinating to like, for me, I don't know if this is what your experience has been, but I always joke. I'm like, I came out of the womb with a veil. Like all I wanted was to get married and have kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm now at this point where I've just kind of like, I don't know, it'll happen or it won't and I don't know what. So what's your.

[B]

I guess I always thought I would get married just because at the time I was growing up, that's what you did. That's what my mom did. And I thought, well, I guess that's what I'll do too. And then, and then the more when I went to New York to go to acting school at the neighborhood playhouse and there. And I had boyfriends, I had long term boyfriends and I didn't want to have kids and they didn't either. So that was one eight year relationship and we didn't want to have kids. Then we broke up and then I had a 10 year relationship.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

We didn't want to have kids either. And then I was. Then I was pushing into my mid-30s and then I had a four year relationship and I. Yeah. And that's when I thought maybe I should try to have kids now. And then it was apparent to me that this wasn't the man that I wanted to have kids with. So I was like, okay, well, I guess that didn't happen. And I'm actually, I feel so the way you feel in a relationship with that, you know, is probably not the one. And you're kind of in it and you don't know how to get out of it. And that's the most lonely feeling in the world, to be with someone and feel alone. Oh, my God. That's awful. So it didn't happen for. I knew I never wanted to have kids. I just. That just is something that I. But then there was a period where.

[A]

You did, or you just.

[B]

No, I didn't. I just thought, well, I better. If I should just try, at least right here. I went to a fertility person and they were like, oh, you're really. You're kind of over the hill. I was like, oh, really? I thought women could have kids till. I was sort of under the impression that women could have kids till they were 50 or something. I don't know why I thought that, but.

[A]

Because we're not. I don't know if you follow Dr. Mary Claire Haver on Instevit. So she's like the menopause queen, and she. I had her on the show and we were chatting about how just this is not something we're taught, like, to be in charge of our fertility.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know until a friend of mine went into early menopause at 40. I didn't even know. I didn't even know that was possible.

[B]

Yeah, they don't. They didn't teach us anything about our bodies growing up.

[A]

It's both bonkers. And then you look at all the misogyny in the world and you go, yeah, I understand why, you know, but, yeah, I never.

[B]

I mean, the first I heard that I wouldn't be able to have a kid at 40. Something was in this fertility doctor's office. She was like, the odds are not in your favor, and you'll probably. And she said, also, where is your partner? And the guy that I was with, he was like, didn't even come with me. And I was like, I guess that is a sign, isn't it? I guess I. Oh, my God. But my true love in my world, besides my friends and family, are dogs.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

Animals, and especially dogs are my heart.

[A]

They complete you.

[B]

I do not love dogs more. I mean, I have to get off Instagram because every dog I see on the rescue things, I want to have a farm and rescue, you know, at least have at least 10 dogs. I don't know. I just love them so much. And I grew up with dogs, and I think in my family, that was where love was easily expressed. I think for me, to the animal and the dog back to me.

[A]

That's really interesting. I don't think I've heard that before, but it makes so much sense.

[B]

Well, the family, you know, it was very WASPy. Very not. You don't hug or. Not a lot of touching or, you know, hugging or anything like that. They loved me, but it was a different era. They were the silent generation. Very. You didn't talk about feelings or anything like that. And I think for me, the animals, I just. I could hug them or love them, and I felt, you know, I don't know.

[A]

So I'm not a pet person. Yeah, we didn't. We had cats for a little while when I was growing up. But it's interesting because I have a friend who. She was not a dog person, and she got married late in life, and her. I. I met her through her now husband, and he, like, has a. What are they? Doodle something? Lavradoodle.

[B]

Right. Cockadoodle.

[A]

Laverdoodle. And she fell in love with his dog and then now has her own dog, too. And so I just. I sort of feel like, okay, I could maybe see that happen because all of my friends are always like, you need a dog.

[B]

You. You know, cat. At least cats are easier to, like.

[A]

Catch cats at all.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, no, cats scare me. There. There's. I. Okay, let me say this. I was scratched badly by a cat when I was 3.

[B]

Oh, well. Yeah.

[A]

And so I think that. And then I feel like every time I see one of my friends, I feel like they're looking at you. They know, like, see, like, when the owner turns their back, they're like, I'm gonna get you.

[B]

You know, like, there definitely are cats out there that. That will do that, but there are also ones that are just. I don't know. I had a cat. This is a funny story. I had a cat and I rescued this cat, and I named her Pooty Tang because Pooty Tang was one of my favorite movies. And then this cat, Pooty Tang, got out, and she was chipped and everything. And I was going through the neighborhood. Pooty Tang. It was just wild. And I never found her. And to this day, I hope that some other family found her. And that. That's how I like to think of it. I can't think of the other possibility.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[B]

But I wanted. That was my brief moment to try to have a cat. But it's hard when you have dogs. And I have so many people coming in and out of my house, and if you have to keep a cat inside, it's almost impossible.

[A]

Yeah, well.

[B]

And.

[A]

And in la, too, where there are a lot of coyotes. And it's the. That's kind of what happened to our cats. So it was. Yeah, awful. RIP Marshmallow and Sonia.

[B]

Oh, P. Marshmallow and Sonia and Pooty.

[A]

Tang and Pooty T. They're like all up in kitty cat heaven, sort of having tea, laughing at us. Like, here are the words you couldn't remember, ladies. It's just really. Anyhow, it's surprising to me, for myself, of just being in a place where I feel it would be great to meet somebody and, you know, I date a lot, but I don't know. This year, I don't know whether.

[B]

Do you do it. You don't do.

[A]

I don't do it online. No. It's like all. Either all friends meet someone organically rarely, or it's a setup up from different people. And. And that's, you know, been. Been interesting. Really interesting this year. But I. But I just also feel so busy and fulfilled and. And also your friendships. I think when you get to a certain age, that it's kind of okay, well, I don't really need that emotional support anymore. And I've worked through these issues. I mean, I still have a ton of issues, but, you know, it's. I'm. I think I like complicated men because I myself am so complicated. Like, I fascinate myself. You know, it's sort of that. I mean, I frustrate the shit out of myself, too.

[B]

Of like, really?

[A]

Again, Again, we're here the same. The same mistake, the same this, the same that. But I don't know.

[B]

It's. It's.

[A]

It just feels like I. I think I hear from women our vintage of like, they've got to be additive. Someone has to be really additive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know? But then I. Okay, so then I saw this picture, this quite. Because I haven't seen you, except briefly at the Atlantic Festival. I haven't. We haven't chatted since. But there was this photo on Instagram where I can't remember whose birthday it was, but it was like they were saying, oh, the lesbian bus.

[B]

And it was, oh, my God.

[A]

And so then I was like, oh, Allison, is this news? Is this.

[B]

I was so funny. I know. I was on that. I don't know. It's the famous lesbian bus. But no, there were a couple other gals who weren't lesbians on that bus. But. But yes, definitely. Everyone started to think. And I'm like, all right, fine. You think I'm a lesbian. I'm not a lesbian. But I. I I loved being on the lesbian bus. It was freaking fun. We went to see Tig Notaro do her comedy. Who. Who I adored.

[A]

She's been on the show. She is. Is amazing.

[B]

She is hilarious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, she's so lovely. And. And Tig and. And. And her wife and my friend Stephanie and Holland and. Yeah. And Sarah and. I'm not remembering everything.

[A]

Wasn't it Glennon and Abby.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

As well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not gonna remember because. Okay. Because I'm.

[A]

That's the photo I saw was.

[B]

But it was such a fun. A fun. I had no idea it was gonna become.

[A]

I forced to do her dog voice.

[B]

Did she tell you I broke her ribs on that bus?

[A]

No, no. Cause I think I talked to her before.

[B]

Well, she's like a teeny thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I picked her up. We were dancing. I picked her up and swung her around and put her down and she had to do. She didn't tell me till this. Till later. And she. She's so. She's so thin. It wasn't like I picked her up and went like. I just went behind her and picked her up and lifted her and did something. She's like. And she had to do her comedy show. Apparently in so much pain. Oh my gosh. She called me later because she wanted me to know and not hear it from someone else. And she said, I still love you, but you broke my. I was so mortified. It was.

[A]

I have a friend who was having sex with a guy and she accidentally broke his nose while they were having sex.

[B]

Really? Oh my God. That sounds very passionate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I wonder. I'm trying to imagine how that that happened. Trying to imagine the position and. What?

[A]

Yeah, I don't remember. I can ask.

[B]

I don't think I've ever injured anyone in sex during sex yet.

[A]

Me either.

[B]

Me either.

[A]

And. And you're doing these photo shoot like you went pantless. Right. To the last Culturist Awards. That was the first looked amazing.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[A]

You know, you embody this, your sexuality and your lesbian or not. No, I'm kidding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Elson, Jenny said she is not a lesbian, so. Nothing wrong with being a lesbian.

[B]

I've not experienced a lesbian encounter yet in my life.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, what the hell? The night is young.

[A]

The world we're.

[B]

We're in.

[A]

You know, anything goes, baby.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like. But has that.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Have you always. Have you always felt that comfortable in your skin and in that way? Or is that like something is Your.

[B]

I like doing. Playing a role in these photo shoots. Getting. Knowing that there is retouching and things like that, that can help. I did the thing with the no pants look for Los Culturistas, like the Broadway dancers. They put a pair of stockings on underneath, and they put another one on over the top to make everything.

[A]

Oh, I did not know that that's.

[B]

A Broadway dancer trick. And I tried that. I was like, okay, because my legs look great when they're. When they have something holding them up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But after a certain age, things start to move south. But in those photo shoots I did, I got. I felt it's fun to feel sexy in those because I know I have a lot of help. I've got a lot of great lighting. I've got a great photographer. I can. And I can play a role. It's fun. You know, when I put on that outfit to go to Las Colchuristis, I was like, I can't do this. And I thought, yes, I can. I can play her. This is. This is the role I'm playing. I'm playing this woman who's getting this award tonight, and I'm gonna own it on the carpet. It's just. It's the way I talk to myself and step into being that person on the red carpet. Because Alison was more. Is more comfortable in my sweatpants and my T shirt and with no makeup on and a baseball cap on or something. You know, that's how I'm comfortable. Yeah.

[A]

But you know what? It's. No, I think it's no different. Like, that's so adjacent to how so many people have to show up to do different things in life. Right. I mean, it's. What's the difference between finding a part of yourself and finding a character that you can embody? Pretty much nothing. You know, so it's just. I get it. I feel very. I am probably my most awkward on a red carpet. Like, I never. And just am behind the camera and all the things.

[B]

Well, because of the questions they ask you on the carpet, and there's all this noise and you can't focus, and I'm like, wait, what did you say again? And, yes, I did that movie with Hugh, you know, so that hope happens to me the whole time down the carpet, and I'm like, oh, my God, please let this end. Yeah, I wish I could find it as a game and have fun with.

[A]

It, but, yeah, I don't go on red carpets very often, but when I. When I do, I'm always looking at videos ahead of like, okay, what? What? The hand goes here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[A]

And this forward and the leg. And then I get there and I'm trying to. I think the thing someone taught me that's helped me the most is the. The gentle finger pull.

[B]

The.

[A]

The light finger. I'm like, okay.

[B]

That.

[A]

I'm like, I can do that because.

[B]

I never know what to do with your hand.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

So the.

[A]

The question I ask everybody at the end is if there's anything you're working on reclaiming in like, a very elastic definition. And you could also just perform the Jackal for us. I would give you a pass on answering the question.

[B]

I don't know if I could remember those words anymore. I knew them for so long, but that was so much fun. The Jackal? Yeah. Oh, my God. Reclaiming that performance. Reclaiming. Well, I think reclaiming who I am without being with anybody or associated with a job or a part or anything. Reclaiming my center and my peace of mind and who I am away from everything. Because sometimes that gets lost in the doing of this and being this and having to be this person and being that person. And sometimes I feel like I very much lost touch with me without the distraction of the phone or the TV or all the things. Yeah, I mean, I really. My dream is to go on. I don't know if I could do it for a week, but at least a weekend of a no talking retreat, you know. Wow. Where you just.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think I could do that.

[B]

Just no phone, nothing. Just three days of being quiet.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I travel alone a lot. Like, I'm. I enjoy my own company. I think I'm quite funny.

[B]

I love that. That's great.

[A]

But so, I mean, maybe doing a silent retreat.

[B]

Come on, let's do it together. Can you imagine?

[A]

We'll laugh every time we look at each other. We'll just. I'm one of those. I was at a memorial recently and they. I don't know that somebody played the shofar at the memorial. And there was something about the pitch and the way he played it. And my brother was next to me.

[B]

Who always makes me.

[A]

And I. I literally was like, oh, no. Biting on my finger because I. Please. I'm like, please, Monica, please don't start laughing in the middle of the memorial. Like, you will embarrass your family worse than 98.

[B]

Like, laughing in church kind of thing is the most. That's when you get the most hysterical. And you're not supposed to.

[A]

I know. Just Just the nerves. So. All right. So a silent. A silent retreat.

[B]

Silent retreat. Okay.

[A]

But I love what you said, that it's sort of the. The reclaiming of the. Of the doing.

[B]

Yeah. And what do I.

[A]

It's really pretty.

[B]

Do I want to keep doing this or do I want to. Is there something else that might give me more peace of mind than what I'm doing that I have been doing for a while now and watching how the business is changing so much, and now there's a.

[A]

There's AI Actor. I know what the.

[B]

Who's being signed by what agency. I'm like, okay. I'm so grateful that I'm not starting out right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know how young actors are dealing with the reality of what's happening. And then I guess. I guess that's whatever. When I was starting out, maybe the people that were my age were thinking the same thing.

[A]

It's definitely moving forward, is changing. And it's sort of. It feels as if the changes used to be little waves and now it's a tsunami. You know that it's just that the wave crashing is destructive, you know, enormous and destructive.

[B]

There's so many ways in our world right now, there's a tsunami coming at us. Yeah.

[A]

And it's scary. I actually. I have such. I have a deep, deep. I mean, I don't think there's anybody who's like, ooh, tsunami. I'm excited. But I have such a deep fear of a tsunami. It's.

[B]

I do, too.

[A]

Yeah. And I. I have two friends. Who.

[B]

Do you have? I have a dream, a recurring dream about tsunami.

[A]

Me, too. Me, too. And I. I have two friends who knew each other, but, like, weren't friends themselves, who both dreamt that I was in a tsunami. Like, I was almost caught in a tsunami the same night.

[B]

So let's all get out of here. Yeah.

[A]

No, no. This was a long time ago.

[B]

This is a long time ago.

[A]

Yeah. That's bizarre. It's very interesting. I love the ocean. I love to be by the ocean. I am my best. The best version of me when I'm by the ocean and the waves are crashing and I can hear that, but I'm terrified of the ocean. I'd rather crash in a plane on land than in the ocean.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Even though you have a better chance of surviving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, in the ocean.

[B]

I have a healthy respect for the ocean. I will say I am. It's not my. My. My world not my. My. Not my home and the creatures underneath it's theirs. And what we've done to that ocean after the. My Lord. Yeah, I feel the same way. I like being by the ocean. I don't love being in the ocean. I love. I also love the desert, too. I love the stillness of the desert. That makes me feel really good. The warmth and the stillness there. I don't know where I'd want to. I'd want to have homes in both places. Yes.

[A]

Sounds good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And on that note, thank you so much for doing this.

[B]

You are so welcome. Thanks for having me.

[A]

This is really, really lovely. Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF Media studies. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elena Baker and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez Wren and Emily Feld Brake and executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin o' Flaherty and Marshall Louie.