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- [00:00]
Monica Lewinsky
Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. On today's episode, I sat down with actor Andrew Rannells. Rhymes with panels. You'll get what I mean in a minute. You might know Andrew from Book of Mormon on Broadway or as Elijah on HBO's Girls. We covered a lot of ground together, from his altar boy upbringing to coming out as gay his first year of college. Andrew's adventures in acting and life had me cracking up. And I hope they're going to do the same thing for you. We even got in a little naughty talk. I hope you find something in the episode to connect to. And thanks for joining us on Reclaim.
- [00:59]
Andrew Rannells
Foreign from finance, loves fly fishing. She used to spend her weekend surrounded by receipts. Then she switched her company to Ramp. Now spend is all under control, all in one place. Her team submits their expenses with a text and she can close the books without all the busy work. So Sally's weekends are all her own. Surrounded by fish, not receipts. Switch your business to ramp.com and love finance. Again.
- [01:33]
Monica Lewinsky
Let'S start with the fact that no matter how many times people correct me, I cannot say your last name properly.
- [01:40]
Andrew Rannells
That's all right. So I have a trick.
- [01:42]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, okay.
- [01:43]
Andrew Rannells
Yes, it's Rannels, like panels.
- [01:45]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, okay, that's great.
- [01:46]
Andrew Rannells
Rannels.
- [01:47]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay. Rannels like panels.
- [01:49]
Andrew Rannells
Or you just say Rannels. Rannels from Nebraska.
- [01:51]
Monica Lewinsky
From Nebraska.
- [01:52]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. Randalls.
- [01:53]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay. So Andrew Rannels, like panels.
- [01:55]
Andrew Rannells
Yes, that's it.
- [01:56]
Monica Lewinsky
Welcome to Reclaiming.
- [01:57]
Andrew Rannells
Thank you for having me.
- [01:58]
Monica Lewinsky
Of course. I was thinking, I think the last time we saw each other was backstage after Gutenberg. I came with Richard Weitz and he and I laughed so hard, like my face hurt.
- [02:12]
Andrew Rannells
That's very nice. Well, I'm sorry for that, but.
- [02:14]
Monica Lewinsky
No, no, it was so good. Thank you very much. Amazing.
- [02:19]
Andrew Rannells
I love that you love to come to the theater.
- [02:21]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, yeah, I have been. I was a drama geek. So in high school.
- [02:25]
Andrew Rannells
Well, would you like to tell us about your. Your resume in musical theater?
- [02:31]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, I was the Chipoopi Music Man.
- [02:34]
Andrew Rannells
Okay. Music Man. I think at some point, if you are in musical theater, you've done a production of the Music Man.
- [02:39]
Monica Lewinsky
100%. But I actually more of my experience in theater was a costume design. So. Yes. The drama teacher told me I was better on that side of the footlights.
- [02:51]
Andrew Rannells
I don't care for that. Yeah, I don't care for that advice, that's not good to tell a kid that.
- [02:57]
Monica Lewinsky
No. Different time, different time. Now, had you and Josh Gad done something together since Book of Mormon or was Gutenberg the musical?
- [03:05]
Andrew Rannells
Gutenberg? Yeah, that was the first time we really worked together. We had done a few like concerts or like sort of one off things that, but we had always talked about it, that we wanted to do something, we wanted to find something to do. But we've both been really lucky since the Book of Mormon to be busy and we both were working a lot and it was hard to try to find something to follow up the success of the Book of Mormon. And we were offered a couple shows over the years that seemed a little too on the nose to do the Odd Couple or to do the Producers. I don't know if that's quite right. And then our friend Alex Timbers brought us that show.
- [03:43]
Monica Lewinsky
So talented.
- [03:44]
Andrew Rannells
It's a preposterous idea. It's about two guys who write a musical about Johann Gutenberg, the inventor of the printing press and. Yeah, but also, you're caught.
- [03:55]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay, but let's also say, because I think one of my favorite parts that I laughed at the most so is your costume changes consist of putting on a baseball hat that has the, like the name of the character of the character. And being Jewish, I just about died when you put on the anti Semite hat for the little anti Semitic flower girl was the funniest fucking thing to me. So I mean, I, I, I don't want to say I almost, you know, wet my pants, but I almost wet my pants.
- [04:24]
Andrew Rannells
You could have. Well, that's high praise.
- [04:25]
Monica Lewinsky
It, it was so fun.
- [04:26]
Andrew Rannells
High praise for comedy. No, we had the best time doing it and it really was like it ended up being sort of the perfect thing to get together. You know, Josh and I have a sort of a weird bond that, you know, we didn't necessarily ask for it. We just were cast in the show together and then sort of, you know, thrust together through our careers. And it's, you know, we've become very, very close over the years, but we sort, we joke with each other like, oh, you'll be mentioned in my obituary, which is an odd thing.
- [04:58]
Monica Lewinsky
But did you guys have a sense, given the success of south park going into Book of Mormon, like, this is going to be huge?
- [05:05]
Andrew Rannells
No, we had a sense that we would have an audience for at least a little while. We thought maybe like, you know, we would get those south park fans that would come and see the show, but I don't, I think we Were prepared for it to sort of like, happen, and then maybe close like that. We would sort of make some noise and then it would go away, but it's still running on Broadway.
- [05:30]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, my God. Oh, I didn't realize that.
- [05:32]
Andrew Rannells
Almost 15 years later.
- [05:34]
Monica Lewinsky
Wow.
- [05:35]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [05:35]
Monica Lewinsky
I have a probably very unique story about Book of Mormon, which was that I have. Have a friend. Not had, but I have a friend who comes. Was raised Mormon. His whole family is still Mormon. And when we became friends, like, he was saying certain things, but he hadn't quite said, he's not Mormon still. And so I was. So I kind of referred to him as maybe Mormon guy to my friends, because everybody kind of gets a nickname. And then at some point, he. He was saying something and he was like, oh, my God, the Book of Mormon was so funny. And I was like, okay, he's not still Mormon.
- [06:09]
Andrew Rannells
He's not Mormon.
- [06:10]
Monica Lewinsky
So, yeah.
- [06:11]
Andrew Rannells
Although we did have plenty of people who were practicing Mormons who came to see it and I think walked away with the sentiment that we were hoping for, which was not to make fun of the Mormons, but to sort of make fun of religion in general, really. I mean, they certainly used the Mormons to sort of as, you know, as a jumping off point. But the point of that story is that, you know, it. It all sounds sort of insane when you break it down. Right. All of those stories.
- [06:39]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [06:40]
Andrew Rannells
And I think at the end of the show, what all of those characters learn is that, like, you can't judge one from the other because it. All the. The facts of it all kind of sound bonkers. Yeah. But if it makes you a happier person, a nicer person, a better person, then I guess what's the harm in it? Because that musical ends with them making up a religion with completely nonsensical facts, and they're all happy.
- [07:09]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [07:09]
Andrew Rannells
So it's not a. You know, it wasn't. It's not a slam on religion. It's sort of a reinterpretation, I guess.
- [07:17]
Monica Lewinsky
And you grew up religious? Catholic, Very Catholic, right?
- [07:21]
Andrew Rannells
Catholic, yeah. Altar boy. The whole bit. Yeah, the whole bit. I did the whole thing.
- [07:27]
Monica Lewinsky
The trauma and all of it. Like, I got all the gold stars.
- [07:31]
Andrew Rannells
I went through Catholic school my whole life. All boys. Catholic school for high school. Yeah. And it was. It's, you know, it's something that I. I don't know if you find this with. With your own, you know, religion. There is a comfort to some of it. Right. Because sort of politics, aside from it, I. I do have fond memories of going to Church, like, with my grandma or with my family. And there are certain holiday traditions that are so tied up in that in my mind, it's kind of hard to separate that.
- [08:02]
Monica Lewinsky
Absolutely.
- [08:04]
Andrew Rannells
So I do find it comforting sometimes the older I get, like, if I do go back with my mom or there's parts of it that I'm like, I can see the benefit. There's other parts that I completely disagree with, but kind of. I mean, in a way, as a form of theater, I still like it.
- [08:27]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, I. I loved in your book how you talked about the costumes.
- [08:31]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [08:32]
Monica Lewinsky
I. E. The. I never say it right. Cossacks. Cossack. Is that right?
- [08:36]
Andrew Rannells
Cassocks.
- [08:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Thank you.
- [08:38]
Andrew Rannells
The cassocks. Yes. They. Yeah. There is an element of. And there's lighting, and there's the candles, and there's things. I mean, it is theatrical. I mean, you know, seeing this new pope getting elected. I mean, talk about theatrical.
- [08:52]
Monica Lewinsky
Right?
- [08:52]
Andrew Rannells
Good Lord.
- [08:53]
Monica Lewinsky
I know. And did you see all the memes about the. Like, the new hot priest, the Brazilian?
- [08:57]
Andrew Rannells
Oh, boy. No, but.
- [08:59]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, but I send you.
- [09:01]
Andrew Rannells
I was working in Rome. I did this movie that I did with Nick Kroll a couple years ago in Rome, and I bought my mother. They sell hot priest calendars outside the Vatican that are, like, not, like, shirtless, just these really sort of odd photos of these young priests. But it's. It's called Hot Priests.
- [09:21]
Monica Lewinsky
Right?
- [09:22]
Andrew Rannells
The Vatican.
- [09:22]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. It's. It's a church. I'm not sure that I should take us down this road, but I. I did know someone at some point. I don't still know him, but that. Nor is it someone most people know, just to be super clear. Okay, but who was kind of into nunporns.
- [09:39]
Andrew Rannells
So that's not where I thought you were going.
- [09:42]
Monica Lewinsky
So when you talk about a hot priest calendar, I'm like, yeah, there's probably a market for it.
- [09:48]
Andrew Rannells
Yes, I'm sure that's a. You porn autofill. That's a category somewhere.
- [09:58]
Monica Lewinsky
You talk about some of your younger experiences in the church, like, that were really traumatic. You talk about them with a lot of humor. But so I want to be mindful because I feel like I say this a lot in this show, but Tarana Burke, whom I interviewed earlier, made such a really powerful point about not asking people to sort of retell their trauma.
- [10:23]
Andrew Rannells
Sure. No, I wrote. I mean, so I've written two books of essays that are, you know, basically just like, essays about my life and career and things like that. And in the first book, I wrote an essay called It's Never the priest you want to kiss.
- [10:36]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [10:37]
Andrew Rannells
Because as a young, as a young gay man, and I knew that I was gay and I was, you know, sort of knew that I was, you know, would be coming out at some point. But it was the 90s and in Omaha and at an all boys Catholic school, it was not the place. But, you know, I had crushes on people and I had, you know, had sort of developed this crush on this young priest that was, like, really kind to me and I think could tell that I was struggling with, like, making friends with other guys.
- [11:07]
Monica Lewinsky
Is the one who brought groups of the lunch I was really touched by.
- [11:12]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah, he sort of, you know, he sort of could tell kids in his class or, you know, see people sitting alone in the lunchroom that he would say, like, why don't you. You can come in my office. So we would go into his office during lunch and there'd be like 10 boys there that we would all just hang out. And he would sort of go back into this other, like, corner of his office and like, do his work. And didn't. He didn't really insert. That didn't come out right. He didn't really participate in the conversation, Monica. He didn't participate in the conversation. He would just let us sort of, like, hang out. And it did create a sort of a group of friends of mine. We eventually moved out of that office into the proper lunchroom. And it was a huge confidence builder for me when I was that age. But at the same time, there were some real handsy priests that were just, you know, not great guys. And I, you know, had a couple experiences with, with priests at the school who, who also recognized that I was, was different and that I was gay. And they took advantage of that in a way that, you know, I feel bad for that kid, for myself, but I also feel bad, you know, for that there are adults in those situations who can spot a kid who's maybe going through a hard time and take advantage of that rather than help them. So this other priest, Father Lawlor, was the kind priest. And then there were these other douchebags who were just real, real handsy.
- [12:45]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:46]
Andrew Rannells
And I don't mean to laugh at that in, like. I mean, I was lucky in that.
- [12:50]
Monica Lewinsky
You'Re talking the queen of gallows humor. So I, I think that, you know, sometimes the, the easiest ways to comb through pain and trauma is through the lens of humor.
- [13:03]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [13:04]
Monica Lewinsky
So that's me.
- [13:05]
Andrew Rannells
Me too. And that's how I was, how I was raised. And I think going into, you know, the theater, that's certainly where a lot of, you know, a lot of those laughs come from, is from sometimes a very dark place. But. But I did share that very publicly. And the crazy thing was, is that I didn't really get a response from that school. And I wasn't really. I didn't share it so that I could get. I wasn't looking for an apology.
- [13:32]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [13:33]
Andrew Rannells
Or anything like that, but I thought maybe I would get, like, something.
- [13:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [13:38]
Andrew Rannells
I did get taken off the name of, like, alumni. I don't think you're gonna see me as, like, a famous Crate and Prep alum. I don't think that's gonna happen. They've also stopped asking me for money, so I. That is a positive part of it. But, yeah. I'm not included on any, like, brochures.
- [13:56]
Monica Lewinsky
And did you. Did you hear from. Have you heard from any of those men either? The ones who were. Who were nurturing versus the ones who were abusive? Like, has anybody reached out. You don't have to say names.
- [14:11]
Andrew Rannells
No, no, no, no. I mean, the two handsy priests, we'll call them. One of them is dead, and then the other one is retired and not working in the school. And I found that out later, I think, you know. But. Yeah. No, but I never heard from the. From the nice priest. I didn't reach out to him either, though, to be clear. And a couple of those priests who were real nice are not in the priesthood anymore.
- [14:38]
Monica Lewinsky
Interesting. Do you think they just. Do you think that it. I think all of the abuse. Eventually. I mean, it. It not. Yeah, you know, it did. It did come to the surface in so many ways that I imagine there were a lot of good people who were. Who were in the church who would maybe have a whisper of, oh, this doesn't feel right. Doesn't really want to look. And then eventually, you know, the truth has risen to the surface.
- [15:06]
Andrew Rannells
I think a lot of Catholics became Episcopalians.
- [15:09]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay. I know not very much about religion, so I don't.
- [15:13]
Andrew Rannells
I don't. It's a much more, I think, accepting church and like. Like, women play a larger role.
- [15:19]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [15:19]
Andrew Rannells
Gay people or. That's not like.
- [15:21]
Monica Lewinsky
I learned about Jesuits from your book.
- [15:22]
Andrew Rannells
Oh, really? The Jesuits. The Jesuits were like.
- [15:25]
Monica Lewinsky
You were like the cool.
- [15:26]
Andrew Rannells
They were like the cool priests.
- [15:27]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. They sort of. I feel like if you were to think of a priest being akin to the 60s, like, it would be sometimes.
- [15:37]
Andrew Rannells
Like, smoked dope and, like, maybe his hair was a little bit longer.
- [15:39]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, there were so many. There were a lot of overlaps. From your younger years. That resonated with me in different. Because I, I think too. I mean, aside from like, we both love musical theater and I've had a penchant for older men. Yeah. But you know.
- [15:55]
Andrew Rannells
Well, I, you know, when I think the very first time that I met you was at the impeachment. That party.
- [16:02]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [16:02]
Andrew Rannells
At the. That was pool room in New York.
- [16:06]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [16:06]
Andrew Rannells
I do feel like you and I have a similar. I did feel a certain like, kinship to you, especially when, you know, we sort of first became aware of you. Because I did recognize a lot of myself in that story. In that you. And I don't mean to say story because it's your life, but in the sense that, like, I was a kid who always was like a little bit smarter than the other kids, but certainly not smarter than the adults. And it gets you into some tricky situations.
- [16:39]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [16:40]
Andrew Rannells
Because there are those adults who recognize you for being like a little bit ahead, but then you're still young and you still get taken advantage of. And that happened to me a lot. A lot. Growing up in a lot of different situations. And most of them are sexual and I wasn't smart. I was smart enough to get into them, but then not smart enough to figure out how to get out of them. Right. And it really, it took me a while to figure that out.
- [17:09]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. But I also really connected with your story around that. I think when you were. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were in high school, a 40 year old man.
- [17:19]
Andrew Rannells
I was 16. Yeah, you were 16.
- [17:20]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. And so it was just, it was interesting because when I was in high school, I had. He was much younger, it was 24, but there was still teacher, a drama teacher who had been my teacher for only a few months. Months overlap. But who had had an affair with a friend of mine who was a senior. And then when I was a senior and I was at a different school, like was going through a hard time and he was talking to me in the parking lot one night and then kissed me and you know, and then we reconnected and at that point he had been married, he'd gotten married. And so it was like this. But you know, he was. I mean, he was really inappropriate.
- [18:04]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah, of course.
- [18:05]
Monica Lewinsky
But flirtatious. And when, you know, I don't, I don't know where your, how your high school trajectory changed once you got your, you know, your lunchroom friends.
- [18:15]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [18:16]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, but I think that there's. If you are carrying around insecurity.
- [18:22]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [18:22]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, I mean, that's I think some of what you're talking about, what. What someone smells, you know.
- [18:27]
Andrew Rannells
Well, that was. That was very much my. So this guy was a community theater director.
- [18:32]
Monica Lewinsky
And.
- [18:32]
Andrew Rannells
And he was 40 years old. I was 16. We started having a sexual relationship that at first seemed kind of exciting. And it seemed, in some way. In some weird way, I thought, like, oh, well, this is safe, because he's not going to tell anybody. He's not going to tell anybody.
- [18:49]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. Because you're not out to your family.
- [18:50]
Andrew Rannells
Yet, so this is going to be great. But people did find out, and not so many people in my school, but people in the theater community. And. And I couldn't get out of it. And he ended up being very needy and very manipulative, and I felt super dumb and damaged. And that was all while these priests sort of surfaced. And to tell the whole story, as I tell it in the book, is that I didn't have anybody to talk to about this. I didn't feel like I had anybody to talk to. In retrospect, I think there were a lot of people, but there was this one priest who was one of my teachers that I really liked, and I told him in confession about this relationship with this man that I wanted to get out of, and I told him the whole story, and I got very emotional. And we finished the confession and he stuck his tongue in my mouth. And he did it many times over the course of, like, the next two years of being in high school.
- [19:56]
Monica Lewinsky
So not okay.
- [19:57]
Andrew Rannells
Not okay.
- [19:57]
Monica Lewinsky
So sorry.
- [19:58]
Andrew Rannells
Well, thank you. But it was just. I. Yes, it was sort of what, like, he, I guess, took that as, like a green light or knew that I was damaged in a damaged place, that, like, he could take advantage of it. Yeah.
- [20:13]
Monica Lewinsky
It's so painful to look back. I mean, you were saying your younger self of that. And for myself, too. I look at that and I just think when those things happen when you're so young, it's just. It imprints in a different way than a bad relationship as. As a proper adult, you know, or. Neither of us were actually adults at times, so. And. And I. I see so clearly for myself how much of. And this is the part that makes me so sad too, is so much of how I ended up in my situation was in high school, this high school, then going into college was like that sense of being chosen, too, and feeling special.
- [21:00]
Andrew Rannells
Absolutely.
- [21:01]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, that thing of when you are smarter, you are a bit more advanced. You are probably. You were probably very sensitive to other people. Probably some of what drew you to Theater. Right. Like, because you have to be able to step into someone else's shoes to play a character. Right. All those things. You also are in that stage where you think you know so much.
- [21:20]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [21:21]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, you know, it just is when I, I look back and I think about 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 year old me, you know, who just who thought I could somehow handle or fix things or.
- [21:33]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [21:34]
Monica Lewinsky
Be, be in these relationships. And, and it's, and, and they're real. Sure. Just layered and complicated. And I think also too for Gen X because we're. Yeah, we're. I'm older than you, but you're Gen X. Yeah.
- [21:47]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [21:47]
Monica Lewinsky
So I think that there's, I think that it's, there's so many of us, particularly in our generation, who struggled with this like consensual but complicated.
- [21:57]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. You know, and then, you know, moving to New York, I think, because then I, you know, went to college in New York and sort of, you know, thought like, I'll just, I'll just, you know, change locations and that'll, that'll fix it. Which it did fix a lot. And I got myself like a really cute, age appropriate boyfriend.
- [22:16]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [22:16]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. Right. And I was like, let's make this happen and I'm going to restart. And I sort of reclaimed my virginity basically and was like, I'm starting over. I'm gonna start over with this guy. And it did work for a while, but that sort of the repercussions of that first relationship, like it took, I mean, if I'm being honest, it took me into my 30s to really start to make sense of that of like why I couldn't quite make things work or why my. I'm still expect working cars. I'm sure I'll look back in 10 years and be like, you don't know what you're talking about, but we always do that, right? Yes, exactly. But in terms of like trying to reclaim that time, that's really what I thought. I thought it was possible to just like go to New York and start over. And I talk about it a little bit in that book too, that like, as silly as it was going from being Andy Rannells to being Andrew Rannells and when I introduced myself to people, I was Andrew Rannells in New York and no one called me Andy. So it felt like fresh start.
- [23:15]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Andrew Rannells
This is a new thing for me. And you know, it did, it does work a little bit. But.
- [23:20]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, my, my version of that was having had an unwanted sexual experience with A camp counselor that I really liked. Right. Really liked, but was still non consensual and deciding that didn't count. And so it wasn't until I was in my 40s and in therapy at some point saying, you know, like, well, technically I lost my virginity at 14, but I didn't, you know, I lost it like I lost my virginity at 19. I mean, that's what prior to. In all of my 20s and 30s. I would have told you I was 19 when I lost my virginity. Like, that's how it was in my head.
- [24:00]
Andrew Rannells
And I don't know, is that. I mean, is there some power to saying that?
- [24:07]
Monica Lewinsky
Right? I mean, it could be because I think our minds and our psyches are so clever. You know, they're so clever, they're so adaptive to trying to help us survive trauma. Right. And so the ways that, especially if you're a creative person. Right. The ways that you can come up with storytelling or, you know, moving walls, it's.
- [24:31]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. You can get away with that for a while, I think.
- [24:34]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [24:34]
Andrew Rannells
I mean, you know, I think of our parents and grandparents generation of like, just repress, repress, repress. And sometimes I think, God, that sounds nice.
- [24:43]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [24:44]
Andrew Rannells
I really kind of wish I could just do that.
- [24:47]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [24:48]
Andrew Rannells
I don't want. I don't want to go to therapy anymore.
- [24:51]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, no, no, I know. It's just sort of. I. Have you ever had the experience where, I mean, I've like uttered out loud to my friends. I'm just so sick of myself. I'm so sick of myself.
- [25:01]
Andrew Rannells
So sick of talking about it. I had that talk not long ago with my therapist that I was like, I'm just tired of talking about myself right now. I'd rather. Can we switch the topic? I'll pay you to talk to me about what shows you've on Broadway.
- [25:15]
Monica Lewinsky
So you moved to New York in 97. These experiences and, and you, as you had mentioned before, I was really curious that, like, obviously it sounds like you were aware of what happened in 98, like you were paying attention at the time. And I, and I wondered what that felt like for you. Like, because, I mean, not just, I think just as a man who had been taken advantage of in some ways, even though, like my, my, you know, again, I feel like always so complicated to, to talk about things like my. Was it. Mine was not, you know, sexual assault. I had wanted to be there.
- [25:50]
Andrew Rannells
Sure. Different age, I suppose. You're like, yes, yeah.
- [25:53]
Monica Lewinsky
And there was an abuse of power and I was taken advantage, like all those things Are true.
- [25:58]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. You know, so what, I mean, I remember what it was all happening and my thought was, if I can be honest with you, is I would have been her. I would have done that.
- [26:08]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. I've heard that from a lot of. I've heard it from straight men too.
- [26:12]
Andrew Rannells
I would have done it. Yeah. Of course, I don't think. And I think anybody who says like how could she or why would. You know. And that's also the, was the really up thing was like how could she do that? How could she do that?
- [26:24]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [26:25]
Andrew Rannells
Why could, how could he do that? Like, that's the real question. But I think being very close to your age, I thought, well for sure I would have been in that position. And I know that I would have.
- [26:36]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [26:36]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [26:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, and it's, it's interesting I had so much support from the gay community during that time too because I think that just because the whole, you know, this whole narrative of what happened in 98 was looked at through a lens of oral sex.
- [26:53]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [26:54]
Monica Lewinsky
That somehow became all about. It was not sex and like all the things. Right. But it was. But I think just this shaming for sexuality and sexual. That, that seemed to be where I, I felt a lot of empathy from, from the gay community.
- [27:09]
Andrew Rannells
Well, that's, I'm happy to hear that because I feel like in my little group. Yes. There certainly was a lot of understanding and empathy about it. I mean that's something that I. So my boyfriend has, he has 12 year old twins that we all live together and, and they're just, you know, starting to talk about puberty and things like that. And we've been having.
- [27:29]
Monica Lewinsky
I'm so sorry. I know.
- [27:30]
Andrew Rannells
And we've been having a lot of conversations, not with them yet, but about, you know, what was defined as sex when I was getting that puberty talk in the sixth grade isn't exactly correct. And it actually can do a lot of damage. So explaining to his son and his daughter that like a lot of things can mean sex and a lot of things emotionally and physically are sex. So we kind of have to crack that open.
- [27:59]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, it's, I mean, I think too especially Gen X and older, I think it was so much about. It was a heteronormative definition. Totally all based on essentially shame. Right. So like is your virginity intact when you get married so that there's this sign that the blood is there so that we know you're pure? Right. Yeah, like that's where it all starts from. But I mean, I think about too. I don't Know what it was like for you? For me growing up, it was all. It was like baseball. It was like, well, first base, second base is. Oh, well, I haven't gone to home base.
- [28:35]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [28:35]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, you know, and that. That was sort of all based on that same.
- [28:39]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah, that same idea. Well, this is. I mean, this is a terrible story, but I'm going to tell you anyway. We can cut it later if you change your mind. If you. If you change your mind. I worked with this girl who was like, born again Christian, who admitted to us one night, this is on. On Broadway, okay, We're Broadway actors at this point. And she said that she was still a virgin because she had only been doing anal with her fiance.
- [29:00]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, my God.
- [29:02]
Andrew Rannells
Now this quickly gave her the nickname the up the Butt girl of Broadway. But we were like, hun. I think that's worse. I think Jesus is mad about that. But to your point.
- [29:16]
Monica Lewinsky
Right, but I mean.
- [29:18]
Andrew Rannells
I mean, the definition was that girl should have been taught.
- [29:21]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, exactly.
- [29:23]
Andrew Rannells
If you really want to make Jesus happy, don't do any of it.
- [29:28]
Monica Lewinsky
You're such a good writer.
- [29:30]
Andrew Rannells
Thank you.
- [29:31]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. Were you. Now, did you write. When did you. When do you feel like you started writing?
- [29:36]
Andrew Rannells
I mean, I've always done it sort of for myself. Like, I've always kept a journal.
- [29:40]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [29:42]
Andrew Rannells
And I've always, like, sort of dabbled in, like, essays, but I never really thought I would, like, do anything with it. I just. It was like, just a way for myself to sort of express myself. And then I wrote an essay that I sent to Bill Clegg who, you know, who's a brilliant writer himself, but also is a literary agent. And he said, could I send this to Modern Love in the New York Times to Dan Jones? And I said, okay. And then that afternoon he called and said, they want to publish it. So I was like, oh, wow. So that sort of started and then Bill was like, what other essays do you have? So the first book came together rather quickly because I had years of writing these stories. And so I was able to put together that first book pretty fast. And Bill was, you know, very helpful in, you know, in shaping it. And, you know, we would talk about other ideas about, you know, what. What this needs. And I sort of thought about it almost like a show, like, it's getting a little serious, like, we need some laughs here, so, you know, maybe do something a little lighter in this place. And he was really helpful with that writing it.
- [30:52]
Monica Lewinsky
It's interesting what I'm. What's coming up for me now Is how equally important, like, we can have these experiences where someone takes advantage of us, and we can have these experiences from people who are older or more, who have a lot more experience that completely nurture us.
- [31:10]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [31:10]
Monica Lewinsky
Like, I think about my editor at Vanity Fair, you know, who. Who saw something, you know, first in the conversations we were having and was like, you should be writing for us. You know, you. And that's amazing, you know, and. And then somebody to sort of see my voice and encourage that and to.
- [31:28]
Andrew Rannells
Find what that is as a writer is very different than it is a lot of things.
- [31:32]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. And so it just. I hadn't really thought about that. I think they lived in really separate things. But. But there is this, you know, it's. It's important to remember that there are.
- [31:43]
Andrew Rannells
Ways there are good people out there. Yeah, yeah. And I've sort of always. I feel like, you know, as a kid, I always tried to find those people, you know, when I was, like, doing community theater and was pretty lucky for the most part of finding usually older women who would kind of take me under their wing and. And sort of protect me. And so. And that continued, you know, working on Broadway, like, I was always more drawn to the sort of senior members of the cast. Always.
- [32:15]
Monica Lewinsky
Right, right.
- [32:16]
Andrew Rannells
Like, I want to grow up to be that guy.
- [32:17]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, I mean, in some ways, that's what childhood is supposed. Supposed to be. Right?
- [32:23]
Andrew Rannells
The modeling of behavior and. Yeah. And I had some. I had some really good examples of there. But you're right, there are those people, like Bill and like your editor at Vanity Fair, that, like, they do, when done correctly, it's really.
- [32:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. It's life changing.
- [32:37]
Andrew Rannells
Positive. Yeah.
- [32:44]
Monica Lewinsky
Have you enjoyed being a father? And. Wait, what are you, dad, Papa?
- [32:49]
Andrew Rannells
No, they just call me Andrew.
- [32:50]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [32:52]
Andrew Rannells
They just call me Andrew. You know, when they were. They were six when we started dating, which is tricky. It was a tricky age because they. Their father had never dated anyone before, so they hadn't seen him like that. But the first couple years were. It was a little tricky because I was working a lot. He was working a lot. I was traveling a lot. I was still very much living in New York. He was very much in Los Angeles. And it wasn't really until like the pandemic happened that then we were thrown into homeschool.
- [33:33]
Monica Lewinsky
Which you never thought you'd add teacher to your cv.
- [33:37]
Andrew Rannells
Broke me. I mean, it really did. That was tough.
- [33:40]
Monica Lewinsky
Why?
- [33:42]
Andrew Rannells
I never envisioned myself in that position before. And I never really, if I'm being totally honest, never really cared for living in Los Angeles. I just love living in New York. I love being there. And I feel like during that time I was in a city I didn't love and I couldn't do the thing that I wanted to do for work. And I was with these kids who I was growing to really love, but also like, you know, teaching them math.
- [34:13]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [34:13]
Andrew Rannells
And I was like, I don't know how to do this. And I just felt like completely out of my body and that I didn't know who I was at all. And it wasn't until I could start. I mean, and I was, you know, I think like a lot of people, I was. I was sort of embarrassed that so much of my self worth was caught up in what I did for a living. And without being able to do my job, I was like, I don't know what I. What do I have to offer?
- [34:43]
Monica Lewinsky
That's really interesting.
- [34:44]
Andrew Rannells
What do I have to offer anyone? And that, you know, sent me into, like, I was pretty depressed for a while. And then, you know, and I'm. Whatever. These are the facts that, like, as soon as I got to sing and dance again on stage, then I was like, oh, this, that's right. Like, this is the thing. And as simple as that is, and maybe as simple as that sounds, that, like, when I got the chance to start doing that again, I felt like myself and became more of myself. And I was like, okay, I think I can make sense of the rest of it because I was feeling really shaky about, you know, being sort of a step parent to these kids. Even though Tuck had these kids on his own, he didn't. There is no other partner involved. So I was like, I don't know if I know how to do it. But when I started to feel more like myself and when even, you know, as Josh and I were getting ready to work on Gutenberg, I think I got better at dealing with them and I hope I did. Now, if there were two 12 year olds in this room right now, they might say something else. But I think, you know, especially since we've been living together and I think I'm better at it now of like, okay, I remember, I remember this other piece of me that is important and I think I was able to share that with them a little bit easier.
- [36:08]
Monica Lewinsky
I don't think I've heard anybody articulate how, how much their identity was impacted by not being able to go to work during the pandemic. Yeah, you know, I'm like, we've all, you know, I mean, I wrote a piece actually during the Time about that, I thought we needed a mental health czar.
- [36:29]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [36:30]
Monica Lewinsky
Like, you know, we need a psychologist, Dr. Fauci, you know, somebody who's coming out on TV every day.
- [36:36]
Andrew Rannells
That would have been helpful.
- [36:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. You know, it's sort of okay. Now we have the vaccine. Now you can actually go back to doing these things and just letting us know it's going to feel normal to be. To feel anxious. It's going to be. It's normal to feel all of these other things, you know, so it's.
- [36:54]
Andrew Rannells
That would have been good.
- [36:56]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [36:57]
Andrew Rannells
But, you know, still don't have it.
- [36:59]
Monica Lewinsky
We need it even more.
- [37:02]
Andrew Rannells
We really do. We really do.
- [37:04]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [37:04]
Andrew Rannells
But it is moving forward. I think it's. It's good for me and maybe good for other people, too, to, like, at least have gone through that and have that perspective of, like. I mean, it is important. My job, to me is very important. But it can't be. Like, the only thing going on.
- [37:22]
Monica Lewinsky
Right, is. Is some of what you love bringing joy to other people is that.
- [37:28]
Andrew Rannells
I mean.
- [37:28]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, you do film, you do tv, but you. You've done a lot of Broadway.
- [37:33]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [37:33]
Monica Lewinsky
And that, you know, that is such a symbiotic. It's like, energetically. It's such a symb. Symbiotic relationship with the audience. Right. Like, yeah, they're giving.
- [37:43]
Andrew Rannells
They're taking instant gratification on both sides, hopefully. Yes. That, you know, for the audience. They're seeing something, hopefully, that they like, and then to hear that response in real time based on something that you're doing is. Is really exciting. And that's how I grew up performing, and that's how I learned to love performing is. Is in that context. And as you said, I've, you know, I've gotten to work a lot on television and. But, you know, as an examp. So Nick Kroll and I have this movie that's coming out in June, but we filmed it.
- [38:14]
Monica Lewinsky
Say the title again.
- [38:15]
Andrew Rannells
Oh, it's called I don't understand you.
- [38:17]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [38:17]
Andrew Rannells
In theaters June 6th. And we filmed it two years ago. Two years ago we were in Rome filming this movie, and now over two years later, it's. We are going to share it with people, and it's. I'm very proud of it and I'm very excited for people to see it. It does feel weird, though, just because it's. So much time has passed.
- [38:38]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [38:39]
Andrew Rannells
So when you're performing, when you're, you know, performing on set and n. And I would like, you know, make each other laugh or the Crew would laugh or whatever. He's the best. He's the best. And we would. We were having a good time. But then you leave that project, you step away from it and somebody else sort of creates it. They edit it and they, you know, clean it up and all of those things. And. And then years later it comes out and then it's. I sort of feel a little. Can feel a little detached from the process a little bit. It's hard to kind of hang on to it, right, Even.
- [39:10]
Monica Lewinsky
Because you guys are. You're a couple, right in it and sort of. This is your baby moon before you.
- [39:15]
Andrew Rannells
This is our baby moon. We. Yeah. David Craig and Brian Crano, who wrote and directed the movie. It's sort of loosely based on an experience they had that they were trying to adopt a child. They essentially got. Well, yeah, they got scammed. Oh, my God, they got totally scammed. And it didn't end up with a child. And it was really heartbreaking. And they decided, okay, going to go on this trip, and they went to Italy. And it was when they were in Italy that they decided that they weren't done, that they were going to try again. And, you know, that was the end of. And they have a son, and it's, you know, that was the end of their story. Now what they wrote was that Nick and I are in Italy and we find out that we're going to be parents and that Amanda Seyfried is going to give us her baby. She's not playing herself, she's playing a character, but she. But she's gonna give us her baby. And we're so excited. And then we. We accidentally murder someone. And then it just kind of keeps going. It just spirals out of control. So it starts off is this very sweet story about a couple trying to, you know, find their balance. And then it just goes really bad.
- [40:34]
Monica Lewinsky
Shit. It's. It's amazing. Now, had you. I know that it was, you know, gay marriage wasn't legal and. And sort of gay couples having children wasn't. Wasn't sort of the norm when you were growing up. But was it something you ever dreamed of or hoped for or.
- [40:56]
Andrew Rannells
Short answer is no. I mean, it was so. It seemed so foreign that, like, the only sort of, like, married gay couples, as you said, because it wasn't legal, it was like they had some ceremony where a witchy lesbian waved a stick over their head on a beach. And I was like, am I doing that? I don't think so.
- [41:15]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [41:16]
Andrew Rannells
So I didn't picture that for myself. Now, I also did not have a relationship that lasted long enough. I mean, there were, like, years, but, like, no one that I was like, I want to marry this guy, thankfully. And then the kid thing just also seemed, like such a distant. It seemed like there were so many steps involved that. And, I don't know, I was just very focused on singing and dancing, I guess. And then I, you know, showed up to do a photo shoot for the show Boys in the Band on Broadway, and there was this. This guy who was going to be my lover in the show, and I was like, oh, no, let's rehearse. Oh, no. Yeah.
- [42:01]
Monica Lewinsky
So you knew right away? Yeah, yeah. And. And did Tuck as well?
- [42:06]
Andrew Rannells
He says he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We knew who. We knew who each other were.
- [42:10]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [42:11]
Andrew Rannells
We had actually dated the same guy at one point.
- [42:13]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, okay.
- [42:13]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:14]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, wait, not at the same time.
- [42:15]
Andrew Rannells
Not at the same time. Years apart. But so I knew who he was, and obviously he was on television, you know, so it was like. Like, I knew who that guy was, but then when we met in person, I was like, oh, yeah, this is going to be a thing.
- [42:26]
Monica Lewinsky
Do you feel like in. In the sort of landscape of Hollywood and Broadway and all the things. All the entertainment outlets and things, do you feel like you're seeing more roles for gay people that are reflecting, like, the storytelling is reflecting more of a. A vast spectrum except experience versus kind of a stereotype or monolith of.
- [42:49]
Andrew Rannells
I think so, yeah. I mean, I think if I, you know, look back to when I was a kid, I think that the examples that I grew up with of gays on TV were, like, gay clown who were the butt of all the jokes and, like, people made fun of. Or a little bit later, it was guys who were dying of aids. And those were your two examples. So you could either be, like, the funny one, or you had to be the dying one. And then that sort of transitioned into a period of time where it was just, like, all coming out stories, and that all of the stories were about coming out and struggling with that and how does that work? And that was, you know, great to see, obviously. And then we started to move into a period, and I think, you know, I was lucky that I did this show for Ryan Murphy called the New Normal. We told the story of this gay couple having a baby through surrogacy.
- [43:37]
Monica Lewinsky
And wait, when was this?
- [43:39]
Andrew Rannells
This was in 2012.
- [43:41]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [43:42]
Andrew Rannells
But we got to tell a story that was not about coming out, that was not about illness. It was about a couple, like, starting a Family. And it was the sole focus. Modern Family had started the year before, but that was an ensemble show. This was a show basically just about this gay couple, which was very exciting. And there's been more of those things. You know, I think there's. People are always gonna love telling stories about being sad and pain and, you know, depressing things. Lucky for us, actors love to tell those stories. So there's always gonna be those stories. But I think that I'm more drawn now to things that, I don't know, just feel a little more unexpected or like this. Like. I don't understand you with Nick, I mean, it is the story of a gay couple trying to start a family and they happen to murder a bunch of people. What's more unexpected than that? And that was really exciting. So I love that that script existed. And I love that there are other scripts not exactly like that. But, you know, that people are telling more stories about. It's not a story about being gay. The character happens to be gay, which I think is.
- [44:52]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, I think it's. I don't think we're there yet, but I maybe don't have enough young people in my life to know whether or not. But it feels like we will get to a point where there's kind of no such thing as coming out.
- [45:08]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [45:08]
Monica Lewinsky
Anymore.
- [45:09]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [45:09]
Monica Lewinsky
I see with my friends, kids who are. I don't know, what are they? Gen Alpha or something. I don't know. Whatever. They are. Like, the younger people. Right. With first it was. I had to learn. Oh, okay. I'm not supposed to say, do you have a boyfriend or girlfriend? It's like, are you interested in someone?
- [45:24]
Andrew Rannells
Yep.
- [45:25]
Monica Lewinsky
And then it's the whole thing of, well, I'm not. I'm not anything. I'm no label. I'm nothing. And so the sort of the questioning and the, you know, the exploration that happens, that I feel like. And that feels like a wonderful, hopeful social change.
- [45:41]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [45:41]
Monica Lewinsky
That there's. It's just sort of.
- [45:44]
Andrew Rannells
I think so. I see that in my nieces and nephews that. Like that. Yeah. That there was a more relaxed idea and there wasn't a rush to declare anything. You didn't have to.
- [45:57]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean. But I might be also, like, oh, yeah, Monica, there's the Midwest. So.
- [46:01]
Andrew Rannells
No, but I think that.
- [46:02]
Monica Lewinsky
Do you think in the Midwest, too? Okay.
- [46:04]
Andrew Rannells
No, I totally think in the Midwest. I think that, you know, I think that the Internet has been a real equalizer in a lot of ways. Now, I'm not saying that changes things on a day to day level. But I think that, like, hopefully it does. But I think for a lot of young people, they don't feel like they have to come out or declare anything. I mean, I kind of miss the. I mean, I was, you know, I. It was a. It was a rite of passage, right, to have to like, tell your friends. And. Well, like when I came out to my sister Natalie, who was at the time 17, 16, I said, I just wanted to tell you that I'm gay. And she went, uh huh, uh huh.
- [46:46]
Monica Lewinsky
As in I know or as in.
- [46:47]
Andrew Rannells
I don't know, like, no, yeah, we know.
- [46:50]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [46:50]
Andrew Rannells
I mean, my first job that I wanted was to be a solid gold dancer. Do you know what I'm talking? Yeah, I don't think I needed to come out.
- [46:58]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [46:58]
Andrew Rannells
But I liked it. I liked the process.
- [47:00]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. But I remember there was. I remember reading a really sweet sort of moment between you and your dad.
- [47:06]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [47:06]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, that sounded like a pretty fast transition, right. From him, like when you came out and he was accepting, but sort of was like the choosing language.
- [47:19]
Andrew Rannells
It was the choosing language, right. It was that he said, I, you know, I love you. I don't think you need to be this way, but if you would like to be this way, I love you. And that was like in August and then by December when I came home for Christmas, he said, I've been thinking about it and I've always, you know, you've always been gay and I think that you were definitely born gay. And I'm sorry that I said that. And he was the one who said, I mean, you wanted to be a solid gold dancer.
- [47:50]
Monica Lewinsky
Did you and your dad ever talk about what, like how he. Why. Why he thought in the first place?
- [47:59]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Monica Lewinsky
And then sort of how he got to thinking how he was thinking and that it was important for him to say that to you.
- [48:06]
Andrew Rannells
I think there was the Catholicism part of it that thought that it was a choice and it was a lifestyle. Right. I think that was what he sort of attached to in terms of like what his knowledge of like the gay community was, was like that's something those people are choosing to do this thing that's outside the norm. And then I don't know for sure, but I think just in thinking about me specifically in the sort of history of my childhood, I think he was able to piece together, like, because I have a brother.
- [48:40]
Monica Lewinsky
How many siblings?
- [48:42]
Andrew Rannells
Three sisters and a brother. So there's five of us all together. So my brother Dan was like sporty, like, you know, typical, typical boy. I Guess you would say, and I was not. And I think he was able to then like when he looked back and was like, oh, yeah, I guess that was starting from a pretty young age that, yeah. And he was really, I mean, he was so my dad was really good about, in some ways about sort of nurturing that side of me that he, he was the one who showed me like MGM musicals. He would, you know, tell me like this, this movie with Betty Grable on that I think you might like was the one who did that. And that, that really did inform a lot of my love of musicals. And that comes from him, which I think he must have remembered in some way that like. Or maybe he thought, did I make him gay? Well, showing him those musicals, you know.
- [49:37]
Monica Lewinsky
At the time and generationally he probably did.
- [49:41]
Andrew Rannells
Maybe he did think that.
- [49:42]
Monica Lewinsky
Not, not that he did, but he probably, he might have did think that. But I just, just, I don't know. There's. There's something really sweet about that to.
- [49:51]
Andrew Rannells
Me, you know, I mean, it was, you know, with all. I mean, it's the thing that I worry about, you know, with tux kids too, is that like there are things that I remember my parents saying, you might have this too, that if you cite it back to your parents, you're like, do you remember that time that you said blah, blah, blah, which was so informative to me? And they'll say, no. Yeah, I have no recollection of that.
- [50:12]
Monica Lewinsky
Right, right.
- [50:13]
Andrew Rannells
No recollection. My mother once told me that if I hit the reset button on the outlet in the bathroom, it would start the house on fire. And I thought that was true until I was 17. Until one day I finally worked up the courage to push that button. The house did not set on fire. And I said to my mother, what the hell?
- [50:32]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [50:33]
Andrew Rannells
And she said, I don't remember saying that.
- [50:34]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. Oh, no. Yeah, that's sort of half of it is where it's great to have email.
- [50:40]
Andrew Rannells
Now because it's like you've said it.
- [50:42]
Monica Lewinsky
See the four emails you've sent me on this, you know, that's true. Or the things. But actually I have almost an opposite thing of that with some of my friends, which is so great. I don't know how it happens. They'll tell me I said something that was really helpful to them and it's a smart sounding thing. And I'm like, I did definitely did not say that. And then I'm like, okay, but I'll let you think I was smart enough to say that. But it is a Nice. They. They romanticize something I said in a way that.
- [51:11]
Andrew Rannells
That's good. Sometimes I have friends who will. Who remember that I said something really funny that I'm like, I wasn't the one who said that.
- [51:16]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [51:17]
Andrew Rannells
But I don't tell them that.
- [51:18]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [51:21]
Andrew Rannells
I'll just take it.
- [51:22]
Monica Lewinsky
You have another project out with Lena Dunham?
- [51:25]
Andrew Rannells
Oh, yes. Yes. The show is called Too Much with Lena Dunham. It comes out July 10th on Netflix. And very excited, Very excited about that show. I love working with Lena. We did six years of Girls and just, you know, most of my stuff was with her, most of my scenes. And we really, I don't know, just sort of really hit it off and had this very easy way of working together. And now she's making this new show starring Meg Stalter and Will Sharp as, like, the young people. And Lena and I are now not the young people. So we played the older people and we let Meg and Will have all of the sort of reckless fun. But it was really fun to get to work with. Work with Meg and then be reunited with Lena a little bit. It's been very strange recently. I don't know what has happened in the atmosphere, but I get approached by a lot of young people, mostly young women that they are just. They're watching girls now for the first time because they were children.
- [52:32]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [52:32]
Andrew Rannells
When it came out. And it's. It's really kind of wild that it has. It had a little bit of a resurgence in the past year or so.
- [52:40]
Monica Lewinsky
Interesting. I'm thinking about one of the things the show did for me was I. So. I mean, I've, like, struggled with body stuff my whole life. And so I loved how confidently Lena was naked.
- [52:56]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. I mean, it's crazy looking back at how much flack she took for that and how cruel people were to her, because it's, you know, you look at those episodes now and it's completely. I mean, it's. It's ridiculous that people were, you know, making fun of her for being too fat to be on.
- [53:19]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, just not. Not skinny. Not skinny.
- [53:22]
Andrew Rannells
She wasn't skinny enough. And it's just. It was hard as her friend to watch her go through that trajectory that, like, when the show started, very quickly, she was, you know, she was celebrated as being this, like, genius new writer.
- [53:37]
Monica Lewinsky
New voice of a generation.
- [53:38]
Andrew Rannells
Exactly. And then by the end of the series, people were so cruel to her.
- [53:45]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay, so in your writing, you're incredibly candid about formative wounds. Right. So kind of romantic, sexual, spiritual. What was the experience like for you of sharing those publicly, it was scary.
- [54:02]
Andrew Rannells
And having watched Lena go through it with her, her first memoir, I sort of watched her go through that. And certain things get picked out of books and certain lines and people sort of fixate on things and it becomes something that you're like, well, that's not exactly what I wrote. And so I was very nervous. I was nervous about sharing it, but I was. I was pleasantly surprised that the response was actually very. Was very positive from people. But when you do, you know, like book tours and you do signings and you're, you know, you're meeting a lot of people. And I was really surprised at how many people, you know, you tell stories that you think are so specific to you. And then you. Someone's like, oh, that happened to me. And there's a story that I tell in the book about having a. Going on a date. And at the end of the date deciding I'm gonna have sex with this person. I had sex with a guy. He's still in my apartment. And I get a phone call that my father is in a coma and he's probably going to die. And there's a man who I don't really know very well.
- [55:08]
Monica Lewinsky
Could you remember his name?
- [55:09]
Andrew Rannells
I do. His name was Brad.
- [55:10]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [55:11]
Andrew Rannells
Brad was. Was laying there. He was naked. And I sort of got up and I was like panicking and. And this. He was following me around and still naked. Is there anything I can do? Do you need help with anything? And I was like, put on some pants, Brad. But it was a. It's a very specific story. Yes. Of just like, please cover up. I can't deal with this right now. So I wrote this story and one person in every city I went to said I found out not necessarily their dad, but it was like their grandma, their mom, their dad. I was also having like a one night stand when I found out my mom died. Oh, my. I was like, how common is this? But it turns out. And I don't think they were making it up. I don't think that they were, like, trying to be cool.
- [55:58]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. Trying to connect.
- [55:59]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah. But it happened once. A city that I went to, which I thought was so wild.
- [56:05]
Monica Lewinsky
That is wild. So the last question I ask everybody, what is something that you are working on reclaiming right now? And it could be a part of your identity or a thing or a. A place.
- [56:16]
Andrew Rannells
I feel like I was sort of prepared for this.
- [56:19]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay, good.
- [56:21]
Andrew Rannells
A little bit.
- [56:21]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. No, no.
- [56:23]
Andrew Rannells
I feel like. And this sounds super. I don't want to this seems, like, so egotistical. I really sort of lost for a long time, like, why I like doing the thing that I do and why it made me happy. And I feel like I had a moment a few years ago where I was like, do I still like being an actor? Do I still. Does it bring me any jo. To do this? And I've sacrificed so much to have this career and have this life, and I really. It sort of put me into a little bit of a spiral for a while. But I think the answer that I came to was I do really love doing this, and it brings me great joy to get to perform in front of people, and I shouldn't be embarrassed by it, and I shouldn't apologize for it, and I should just go back to, like, the sort of teenage version of myself that, like, just wanted to do that because it was really fun and made me happy. So I think that's where I. That's what I'm trying to reclaim is. Is a level of joy, is simple of just saying, like, I like what I get to do, and I'm not. I don't. I can stop apologizing about that.
- [57:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, I think sometimes in our culture that it sort of. Of, like, it can be hard to sort of just go, everything's great. Like, really. You know, that it's sort of. Oh, I'm really happy with my. Oh, my relationship is.
- [57:50]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah.
- [57:51]
Monica Lewinsky
Super easy and smooth, and there's sort of a. Yeah. That you. That you kind of get.
- [57:57]
Andrew Rannells
That's a good point. It's okay. Maybe it's okay to be like, things are good.
- [58:01]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [58:02]
Andrew Rannells
I feel. Yeah.
- [58:03]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, the Jew in me is like, touchwood.
- [58:05]
Andrew Rannells
No, I know. Same thing. My. But yes. I think all of my ancestors would be like, what? But I think it is. Yeah. I think there are moments where it's okay to say, maybe not to everybody, but to say to some, like, I'm happy right now.
- [58:20]
Monica Lewinsky
Are you. Have you thought about. Or are you writing anything for now?
- [58:26]
Andrew Rannells
I'm always doing something, but I feel.
- [58:29]
Monica Lewinsky
Like writing something for the stage or.
- [58:31]
Andrew Rannells
Oh, for the stage or.
- [58:33]
Monica Lewinsky
Or TV show.
- [58:35]
Andrew Rannells
I kind of am trying to basically rip off what Bill Clegg did, which is he wrote two memoirs and then he wrote a novel. And I was like, I wonder if I could write a novel. And it's a very different skill, obviously. So I'm just spending some time working on that as something that, like, could I figure out a way to do that, not lose my voice that I've sort of been figuring out and not try to sound like somebody else writing a novel, like Bill Clay. Like, not do that. But yeah. Could I figure out a way to do that and have it still seem personal and like me?
- [59:12]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [59:13]
Andrew Rannells
Yeah, I'm working on that.
- [59:15]
Monica Lewinsky
Thank you.
- [59:16]
Andrew Rannells
Thank you. This was so fun. I don't know if any of this is usable.
- [59:20]
Monica Lewinsky
All of it is going to be.
- [59:21]
Andrew Rannells
Usable, even the up the butt girl.
- [59:23]
Monica Lewinsky
Of Broadway, if you're okay with it. It will.
- [59:26]
Andrew Rannells
I didn't say her name. She's not going to come forward.
- [59:28]
Monica Lewinsky
No, no. Reclaiming with Mada Klewinski is hosted an executive producer produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF media studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez, Ren and Emily Feldbrake. And executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin o' flaherty and Marshall Louie.