Beanie Feldstein

Summary

Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky: Episode Featuring Beanie Feldstein

Release Date: April 1, 2025

In this poignant and heartfelt episode of Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky, host Monica Lewinsky engages in a deeply personal conversation with actress Beanie Feldstein, alongside esteemed guests Sarah Paulson and Ryan Murphy. The discussion delves into themes of reclaiming one's narrative, the emotional complexities of portraying real-life stories, and the universal experiences of grief and loss.

---

1. Introduction and Guest Background

Monica Lewinsky introduces Beanie Feldstein, highlighting her notable roles in coming-of-age films such as "Lady Bird" and "Booksmart", as well as her portrayal of Monica Lewinsky in "American Crime Story: Impeachment". She reflects on how Beanie's portrayal has influenced her own journey of reclaiming her story.

Monica Lewinsky (00:00): "As I was prepping for this conversation, I started thinking about how much Beanie and her role in impeachment actually helped in my own reclaiming."

---

2. The Casting Journey: Beanie Feldstein as Monica Lewinsky

Beanie shares the serendipitous nature of her casting, emphasizing the connection she felt with Ryan Murphy and Sarah Paulson. She recounts her initial admiration for Sarah's performances and how her life intersected with the opportunity to portray Monica.

Beanie Feldstein (02:34): "And that was when Ryan Murphy wanted Beanie Feldstein to play you. So it just felt like kismet."

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3. Emotional Challenges of Portraying Monica Lewinsky

Sarah Paulson discusses the profound emotional toll of embodying Monica Lewinsky, especially during the filming amid the global pandemic. She candidly describes the difficulty of listening to Monica's tapes, which provided raw and unfiltered insights into her experiences.

Sarah Paulson (10:40): "Listening to the tapes was torturous for me as someone that loves you and was going to play you."

Ryan Murphy adds to the sentiment, expressing the intense responsibility he felt in bringing Monica's story to life authentically.

Ryan Murphy (08:49): "The role pushed me the most, was the hardest on me and the most gratifying."

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4. Personal Experiences with Grief and Loss

The conversation shifts to personal stories of grief, with both Sarah and Ryan opening up about profound losses they've endured. Sarah speaks about the sudden death of her brother Jordan, while Ryan shares the emotional impact of losing a loved one during the pandemic.

Sarah Paulson (45:10): "When I was 24. And it was extremely sudden and horrible."

Ryan Murphy (50:56): "Definitely, it shook my whole world, shook my whole family."

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5. The Impact of Reclaiming Projects: Experience Camps

Sarah discusses her involvement with Experience Camps, a nonprofit organization that supports children who have experienced the loss of a loved one. She emphasizes the importance of creating a supportive community where grief is openly addressed.

Sarah Paulson (47:53): "The biggest thing that she instills in us as volunteers is using clear and specific language."

Ryan echoes the significance of these initiatives in fostering understanding and compassion within society.

Ryan Murphy (61:54): "If we can add more community and less loneliness around it, that's the goal."

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6. The Importance of Language in Grieving

A significant portion of the discussion centers around how language shapes the grieving process. Sarah highlights the necessity of using clear and direct terms when discussing death with children to help them process their emotions effectively.

Sarah Paulson (48:41): "So specifically for kids. And I'm not a clinician, I'm not a therapist, but this is what I've learned."

Ryan Murphy (49:25): "It helps it sink in and it helps them."

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7. Community and Connection in Coping with Loss

The guests explore the balance between embracing both joy and grief, particularly in the context of camp experiences where children can express their emotions freely. This duality is portrayed as essential for holistic healing.

Sarah Paulson (51:39): "How sadness and joy exist their best together. That is the heart of what we live at experience camps."

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8. Personal Insights and Reclaiming Journeys

Beanie shares her reflections on societal perceptions of grief and public shaming, drawing parallels to Monica Lewinsky's experiences. She underscores the universal nature of loss and the collective journey towards healing.

Beanie Feldstein (53:40): "I feel as if we don't really talk about it because none of us."

Monica adds depth to the conversation by acknowledging the diverse ways individuals process grief, emphasizing the importance of authentic connections over superficial support.

Monica Lewinsky (53:56): "It's creating new societal norms around grief."

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9. Conclusion: Embracing Authenticity and Connection

As the conversation winds down, the guests reflect on the enduring nature of reclaiming one's story and the continuous journey towards healing. They emphasize the importance of authentic connections and community support in overcoming personal and collective traumas.

Beanie Feldstein (60:53): "I want the real. I want the connection."

Sarah Paulson (62:18): "Reclaiming how our society sees grief."

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Key Takeaways

• Authentic Storytelling: Portraying real-life events requires deep emotional engagement and authenticity to honor the individual's story.
• Grief and Community Support: Creating supportive environments, like Experience Camps, is crucial for individuals, especially children, to navigate grief.
• Language Matters: Using clear and direct language when discussing loss helps in the effective processing of emotions.
• Balance of Emotions: Embracing both joy and grief is essential for holistic healing and personal growth.
• Continuous Journey: Reclaiming one's narrative is an ongoing process that fosters resilience and self-discovery.

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Notable Quotes:

• Monica Lewinsky (00:00): "I started thinking about how much Beanie and her role in impeachment actually helped in my own reclaiming."
• Sarah Paulson (10:40): "Listening to the tapes was torturous for me as someone that loves you and was going to play you."
• Ryan Murphy (08:49): "The role pushed me the most, was the hardest on me and the most gratifying."
• Sarah Paulson (48:41): "So specifically for kids. And I'm not a clinician, I'm not a therapist, but this is what I've learned."
• Beanie Feldstein (60:53): "I want the real. I want the connection."

---

This episode serves as a testament to the power of honest conversations and the strength found in reclaiming one's story. Through shared experiences and mutual support, Monica Lewinsky, Beanie Feldstein, Sarah Paulson, and Ryan Murphy illuminate the path towards healing and self-discovery.

Transcript

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. For today's episode, I spoke with my lovely friend and actress Beanie Feldstein. You probably know her from her performances in coming of age movies like Lady Bird and Book Smart. Or if you watch American Crime Story Impeachment, you would also have seen her as me. But as I was prepping for this conversation, I started thinking about how much Beanie and her role in impeachment actually helped in my own reclaiming. And in our conversation, I was really moved to hear how deeply the experience.

[Beanie Feldstein]

On the show also impacted her. Anyway, I hope you find something in.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Our chat to connect to and thanks.

[Beanie Feldstein]

For joining us on Reclaiming.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thank you to our presenting sponsor, audible explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you. Visit audible.comreclaiming to find your next listen. Thank you to our exclusive fashion partner, Reformation. I honestly can't tell you how many of their pieces have been become my go to favorites. Their sweaters have this incredible way of being both polished and comfortable. And in fact, when we recorded my own Reclaiming story for the podcast, I was wearing the same reformation sweater as the producer interviewing me, but thankfully we had the Clara on in different colors. Their clothes work for all moments in my life, whether it's a casual day out or a more formal occasion. I always find myself reaching for my Reformation pieces. Visit reformation.com to see why they're one of my favorite brands for stylish and sustainable fashion.

[Ryan Murphy]

Hi, Beanie.

[Sarah Paulson]

This is so weird.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know, but exciting.

[Ryan Murphy]

All week I was like, this is so weird.

[Beanie Feldstein]

It's gonna be so weird. Beanie Feldstein?

[Sarah Paulson]

Yes.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Welcome to Reclaiming.

[Sarah Paulson]

Thank you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

That's probably the only time I'm gonna call you Beanie. The rest is gonna be Bean because that's how I know you.

[Sarah Paulson]

Good.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I was thinking about how the first time that I saw you on screen was in Lady Bird and you were so incredibly charming.

[Ryan Murphy]

Thank you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

And then the next time was when I saw Booksmart.

[Sarah Paulson]

That was the one where you told me that you really like, saw something.

[Ryan Murphy]

Right.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Well, it was like that was where I saw the thing. And the thing is that energy that you bring and youth that you have and how you play youth and that it felt really familiar to me. And it was sort of that sense of being headstrong, but also Vulnerable being young, but you also think you're such an adult, being a caretaker, but you also desperately want to be seen and taken care of. And it was when I was leaving Booksmart and walking along the Hudson with my friend, and I said that there was something about you in this movie that reminded me of my time in dc, Which I think it probably says how immature maybe in some ways I was, because you were playing a high schooler and I was graduating in college. Okay. But what was amazing is three weeks later, I heard from Ryan Murphy, and he wanted. You know, was asking me about coming on as a producer for American Crime Story, Impeachment. And one of the first things he said was, I want Beanie Feldstein to play you. And so it just felt like kismet.

[Sarah Paulson]

First of all, it's so weird to.

[Ryan Murphy]

Be here, because my instinct is to ask you 9,000 questions and completely deflect.

[Sarah Paulson]

Any question that has to do with myself. So I know that's not the point of being here, and I'm gonna work on it. But, like, you just can't turn off that curiosity. Like, I love you as a person.

[Ryan Murphy]

But also, I played you, and I thought about you for so many years.

[Sarah Paulson]

Of my life that, like, my curiosity about who you are on a deeper level is, like, will never go away. And so on my walk over here today, I was like, I have to.

[Ryan Murphy]

Not deflect every question that she asked.

[Beanie Feldstein]

You can do whatever you want. So this is.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's surreal. And I think, like, I had a similar thing, which is that I was asked at a. It was a book signing for my friend's book that I wrote one essay in called Feminists Don't Wear Pink and Other Lies.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, Scarlett's book.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah. And I was asked at a book signing for her book, if you could.

[Ryan Murphy]

Play anyone real, who would you want to play? And I said, you. And then I was in the park in London with my now wife, then girlfriend's friends, and someone asked me the same question, and I said, you. And that night, Ryan called me.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like, literally, I was in Hampton Heath. We went back to her apartment, my wife's apartment, and I got a text that was like, this is Ryan Murphy. Can you call me?

[Sarah Paulson]

And I was like, yes, sir.

[Ryan Murphy]

And he was like, yeah, I want you to play Monica Lewinsky. And I was like, what the. Am I allowed to curse?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, yeah, totally. Oh, yeah.

[Sarah Paulson]

You curse?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Are you kidding?

[Beanie Feldstein]

My fucking podcast? I will fucking swear.

[Sarah Paulson]

Fuck, yeah. I was like, what the fuck are you talking. I literally Couldn't believe my ears. And so it's weird that both of.

[Ryan Murphy]

Us had sort of a witchy.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Well, it's not weird. Yeah, it's weird, but not weird.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's Basharat.

[Ryan Murphy]

It's Basharat, which means meant to be in Yiddish for those that don't know.

[Sarah Paulson]

But I think, like, there's always been that gravitational pull whole, which is very.

[Ryan Murphy]

Strange and unique and beautiful.

[Beanie Feldstein]

But yeah, yeah, it's funny because I was thinking about how people probably ask you a lot, like, oh, who's your. What's your favorite role that you ever played? And I'm not gonna ask that because we know the obvious, obvious answer, obviously. It's so funny, but definitely the hardest.

[Sarah Paulson]

Role I've ever played. Okay, you're hard to play.

[Ryan Murphy]

Oh, God.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh. So what do you mean?

[Ryan Murphy]

Well, okay, I had played someone real, but a fictionalized version of them.

[Sarah Paulson]

So Catelyn Moran, who's met now at my wedding, which is crazy to have both of you there.

[Ryan Murphy]

I was like, this is like sliding doors, like a crazy mind meld.

[Beanie Feldstein]

But she's an incredible feminist writer.

[Sarah Paulson]

Incredible. And she wrote a novel that is really close to her life. And I played the lead character in the movie version of her novel, how.

[Ryan Murphy]

To Build a Girl. And so that was like, really a.

[Sarah Paulson]

Great learning curve, I think, for playing you, because all the nerves and the.

[Ryan Murphy]

Pressure and I take things very seriously, which I think something that we both do.

[Sarah Paulson]

So it was not shocking that I'm like that too. But I think, like, I took the.

[Ryan Murphy]

Responsibility of playing Catelyn so seriously, and the character's name was not Catelyn. It was a. It was a loose version of her life. But I took it very intensely and I did all this research. And then getting the opportunity to play you felt like I had a toolbox. But the. The needs for the tools got so much bigger.

[Sarah Paulson]

It was like I thought I had my toolbox.

[Ryan Murphy]

I was like, I have my hammer and my screwdriver.

[Sarah Paulson]

And then I was like, you need power tools and, like, an expert contractor to come build this house. And I was like, whoa, there's so.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So many different ways we could interpret that. So.

[Sarah Paulson]

But, yeah, I'm not even thinking that way, but I think, like, you know, what you had to go through, and.

[Ryan Murphy]

We can go there and not go there up to you. But, like, what you had to go through, I had to go through in my own way to bring your story to life. And.

[Sarah Paulson]

Fuck.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like, fuck. You went through a lot. And we were filming it during the depths of the pandemic So I was seeing nobody. I was living alone. My now wife was stuck in the uk, so we didn't remember that we didn't see each other for a year. I couldn't see my parents because they were, like, older and I was. Didn't want to get them sick, God forbid. And so I was, like, living alone with you in my head.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I am so fucking sorry, Beanie.

[Ryan Murphy]

It was such a gift.

[Sarah Paulson]

But, like.

[Ryan Murphy]

And then also just like, as an actor, it was the only time, was the first time that I had been given. Which is also weird to say to you because it's your life, but, like, what is, like, pretty distinctly a drama. Like, I had done a lot of comedy or dramedy up until then, and this was the first time that I was like, this is a. This is a pure and straight drama, and I've never been tasked with that before.

[Sarah Paulson]

And then you layer on the distinct privilege of it being someone that I love and that I care about. And I took your reclamation very seriously.

[Ryan Murphy]

And I hope I know you know.

[Beanie Feldstein]

That you're a part of my reclaiming story.

[Sarah Paulson]

Makes me want to cry. But I think, like, that it weighed very heavily on me, as it should.

[Ryan Murphy]

Have, because it was a tall. For a very short style person.

[Sarah Paulson]

It was a very tall task. It was the role that I think.

[Ryan Murphy]

Pushed me the most, was the hardest on me and the most gratifying because.

[Sarah Paulson]

I could see and feel the actual.

[Ryan Murphy]

Effect that it had, even just as, like, a hologram of you or whatever, you know, like.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like an extension of you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah.

[Sarah Paulson]

Because the conversations that people would have with me about you change, and that.

[Ryan Murphy]

Was really magical and justified and heartwarming and. Yeah, it makes me very emotional. I haven't thought about it. It feels like a long time ago now. I don't know how it feels for you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, it definitely feels like a long time ago. And I just, you know, you brought so much depth and warmth to the character, but also so much emotional truth.

[Ryan Murphy]

Yeah.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I mean, what. What surprised you about the story? In part because you were only five. Right. So you were only four when. Four, you know, when it happened. But so what surprised you in terms.

[Ryan Murphy]

Of, like, in my research.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah. Just in terms of the story or something you learned about me or.

[Ryan Murphy]

God, how much time do we have? I think.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah, so much.

[Ryan Murphy]

Well, emotionally, the most surprising thing I think was. Which is not exactly the question you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Asked, but it doesn't matter. There's no right or wrong here.

[Sarah Paulson]

Was like, I knew I could not play you without listening to the Tapes. But listening to the tapes was torturous for me as someone that loves you and was going to play you and was going to play you. Listening to the tapes, it was unbelievably hard to.

[Ryan Murphy]

I mean, not compared to what your.

[Sarah Paulson]

Experience was, but, like, it was. It felt wrong. It felt wrong to sit there and listen. But also, it was my job to be as fully informed as to what you were thinking and feeling in those moments. And so it would have been ludicrous.

[Ryan Murphy]

To not do that.

[Sarah Paulson]

That would have been, like, bad acting, like malpractice. Yeah. Literally a heresy. But, like, I think I was shocked at how sick I felt doing it.

[Ryan Murphy]

Because I was always trying to protect you. And so that was really interesting. But I think. And I really believe that Ryan's episode, the sixth episode of the show, I.

[Sarah Paulson]

Think we can always do better, and I'm always pushing myself to be better. But I really think, hopefully you feel that we did it.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[Sarah Paulson]

But that no one knew about.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right. So we're talking about the. It was the sixth episode that was. The bulk of the episode, was the FBI sting. So January 16th, which you very sweetly reach out to me every January 16th, because I call it my Survivor's Day. It's so sweet.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah, it's part of me, too, now. And so I always think about you on that day very deeply.

[Ryan Murphy]

It took us, like, I think, 25 days to film that episode, which, like, if you understand tv, you normally get nine.

[Sarah Paulson]

That was crazy.

[Beanie Feldstein]

No, it was so intense. But so. Because it was. That episode chronicled the 13 hours that I spent from kind of being, quote, unquote, apprehended in a shopping mall by.

[Ryan Murphy]

The Pentagon City Mall.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Pentagon City Mall with my good friend Linda Tran, and then taken to a hotel room in the Ritz Carlton, which.

[Ryan Murphy]

Is attached to the mall.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Exactly. Which is very bizarre.

[Sarah Paulson]

So bizarre.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So bizarre.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, truth is always stranger than fiction.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right.

[Ryan Murphy]

And that entire episode.

[Sarah Paulson]

But, like, the research I did leading up to it, I truly don't think one person in my life KNEW that was 100% the most shocking part, I think.

[Ryan Murphy]

And I think even now, you know, I was listening to your first episode and your episode with Olivia Munn, and I think, like, even just the amount of legal. I don't know what the right word would be, the amount of bullshit.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Legal.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Bullshit.

[Ryan Murphy]

But the.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, the.

[Beanie Feldstein]

The.

[Sarah Paulson]

The fact that you were threatened to be imprisoned.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right.

[Sarah Paulson]

I think is, like, beyond 27 years shocking. And that was another moment of, like, clutching my pearls during my research, because I Yeah, I was four and a.

[Ryan Murphy]

Half when this all happened. I always had an understanding of, you.

[Sarah Paulson]

Know, the general beats of the story.

[Ryan Murphy]

But I was so young that I don't even think I took. It took the time before I was going to play you to, like, zoom out and situate it within history. Like, it was just kind of one paragraph in a history story, you know? And I never judged you, but I also never took the time to, like, interrogate what happened to you. That's my truth. Before I played you. Yeah.

[Beanie Feldstein]

No, no, but the reason I wanted.

[Sarah Paulson]

To play you is because I also.

[Ryan Murphy]

Felt that, like, warmth and very genuine.

[Sarah Paulson]

Spirit that you have in the little.

[Ryan Murphy]

That I knew about you. And also I was like, she's a West LA Jew.

[Sarah Paulson]

She did musical theater. I was like, honey, we're the same. But I think, like, the. The level of fear that they instilled.

[Ryan Murphy]

And that they wielded.

[Sarah Paulson]

I had no idea.

[Ryan Murphy]

And the fact that you were literally a part of a sting and held for 13 hours and that your mom had to come from New York and they wouldn't let you talk to your lawyer and you going into the department store and, like, all of that was.

[Sarah Paulson]

Utterly shocking to me as someone who.

[Ryan Murphy]

Was a toddler when this all happened. I had no idea.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I think what's so interesting, too, and I'm sure as a sociology major, you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Know, you remember exactly that you probably.

[Beanie Feldstein]

You know, thought about it this way, too. If it's interesting to me of your sort of affirmation about people not knowing about that, and yet it was not all the details of it, but the fact that the sting happened was made public pretty early in the investigation. And so it was always. As a psych major, it was really interesting for me to think about how people were judging me for all of these other things. And yet if there is anything that speaks more to my character, even some of the worst things that I've done that speak to my character, that would be. It would be, you know, refusing to wear a wire and make monitored calls 24 years old. So that was always interesting to me. And it's unbelievable.

[Ryan Murphy]

When I got cast, there was a lot of people that were like, you're too young to play Monica Linsky. And I was like, I'm older than she ever was in this whole story.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah.

[Ryan Murphy]

And it. People, I think, also age you up in their heads, which is also incredibly frustrating.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Well, I think. I think that. I wonder in some ways, actually, I have never thought about that. I wonder if that's a way of people Feeling better about their judgment.

[Ryan Murphy]

Totally. I mean, that's my assessment for sure.

[Beanie Feldstein]

But it's interesting because I think one of the things that was so fascinating to me about.

[Monica Lewinsky]

First of all, let's just acknowledge it.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Is so weird to have somebody play you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

It's such a weird thing.

[Ryan Murphy]

And I think, like, if we're really.

[Sarah Paulson]

Honest, it's still weird. Like, I don't think it will ever. I think we have a very unique bond. I think, you know, I almost need us as, like, cousins or something now.

[Beanie Feldstein]

100%.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like, it's also.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, we could be from the same shtetl, you know, we probably are.

[Ryan Murphy]

We.

[Sarah Paulson]

We did that show where it's like, chasing each other. Exactly.

[Ryan Murphy]

I felt a little nervous to come talk to you because I was like, no, no, in a good way. Like, it's just, I care.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, that care is never going to go away.

[Ryan Murphy]

And so, like, I'm so proud of what you're doing with the podcast. And I'm. I'm just always going to be your champion. And I think. Thank you. But I think also, like, it's good to acknowledge that it will always be weird. Like, it is just. It's very weird.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I think what is interesting about watching your life, you know, we have our memory, right. And so how we relive things in our memory, but we're. It's always through our point of view. And so to kind of observe certain things. I really felt like one of the. One of the aspects that I came to metabolize about my own story from watching it was the age difference. And I think because of your youth and because being reminded of that, and especially since it came out just a couple years after MeToo and, you know, just reevaluating things, it was just so fascinating for me to see that. And then incredible scenes with you and Sarah Paulson, who played Linda Tripp, where I think it was really the one where Linda's wearing the wire in the restaurant and everything happened at the fucking Ritz Carlton. Sorry, Ritz Carlton. But everything happened at that Ritz Carlton. But. So that lunch where Linda was wearing the wire and I obviously didn't know.

[Ryan Murphy]

But you had the instinct to look through her purse.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I did.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I did. Because I had stopped trusting her probably a few weeks earlier than that. But in my wildest dreams, I could not have imagined in the depths of the discord, exactly what was in that scene that was interesting was to observe other people, other people in the background even. Have you ever heard about people talking about kind of almost coming out of themselves and witnessing, like, an out of body, like, so. It was very much like that. And because my experience of that day was so myopic, of course, of just, you know, Linda, the waiter or waitress, don't even remember, but to sort of see all these other people who were, in fact, FBI agents in the restaurant, it just recontextualized it in such a different way for me. And.

[Ryan Murphy]

Well, I think that's what I mean when I acknowledge that, it's very strange.

[Sarah Paulson]

Because in some ways, I am a representation of a trigger for you. Like, I. I think I know that it must have been impossibly hard to watch the show and you had to watch me. And so I will always kind of embody that feeling in some way. But also, we're friends, and you were at my wedding. And, like, we love each other so deeply, but both can be true, you know, Like, I think.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah.

[Sarah Paulson]

I. I just imagine it would be unbelievably hard to watch someone play out the lowest moments of your life.

[Beanie Feldstein]

It is. It was really hard.

[Sarah Paulson]

And her parents and, you know, by.

[Beanie Feldstein]

The way, I'm supposed to give you two kisses. Oh, I love your mom.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Exactly.

[Beanie Feldstein]

One for you and one for Bonnie.

[Ryan Murphy]

Of course.

[Sarah Paulson]

I know your mom is like, I love her so much.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Me, too.

[Sarah Paulson]

She's a little angel.

[Beanie Feldstein]

She is.

[Sarah Paulson]

Oh, my God.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know. But really, the person I should play.

[Sarah Paulson]

Was her because she's so small.

[Monica Lewinsky]

She's so small.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know. She's so small. It's.

[Sarah Paulson]

Everyone's like, marcia Beanie doesn't look like Monica. She's so much shorter. I was like, I can't stretch my legs. I don't know what to tell you. They had me in the heels. You know, we did the whole thing, but it was walking on apple boxes.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. So funny. But I think the thing that was the most. And Ryan does this so well in his shows, the thing that's so important was the emotional truth.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Because one of the things that you did in dramatizing this was, I think, allowing people to observe what happened without it being attached to however they actually felt about me. So it allowed people to find their own story in my story in ways. And I think, because, I mean, I talk about it this way, a lot of it being a collective story, that it's sort of, you know, owned by all of us.

[Ryan Murphy]

It is. Yeah.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I think that's so important for understanding, you know, in that way.

[Ryan Murphy]

That was a big part of why I didn't wear contacts, too. Because your Eyes are lighter than mine, like, more blue green. And mine are, like, brown green. And I was like, this is, like, how I act.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like this is how my truth comes across. And I think if we had blocked.

[Ryan Murphy]

That with a lens, like, there would.

[Sarah Paulson]

Have been something lost in bringing you to life. That's my tool, I think, like, my biggest tool in telling your story. And I think not just tears, but just all of the complexities behind what.

[Beanie Feldstein]

You were going through. I know it's. But it's interesting because I was. I mean, so many different things on the right here of just.

[Sarah Paulson]

I know, too.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I know.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Exactly. And it was funny because I remembered this. Like, this story came up for me of. It must have been 15, 20 years ago because it was pre iPhone. But I was going to pick up my friend John in Nantucket, and I was summering. I've only summered once, but that was it. Fun.

[Ryan Murphy]

I've never been.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, I was like, I live in New York now. I need to summer. That's what people do. I went to go pick up John, who had been out fishing with his friend and his friend's dad. And I pull up to the gate, and there's a mailbox and the little, you know, buttony intercom thing. And I look at the mailbox and, like, something about the last name, whatever. Go inside, ring the doorbell, and John's friend's father opens the door and introduces himself. And then I realize that it was familiar to me because he had been one of the private investigators that the Clintons had hired at the time, and so. Or had been rumored to work for them as documented in newspapers. And so that was pretty jarring. But you know me, and I know you're this way, too. It was like, quickly pivot to humor in my head.

[Sarah Paulson]

I disarm. That's how you like.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know. So in my head, I was like, oh, man, my therapist would kill for his file on me of just this feeling of like, this person may know more about me or aspects of me than I see or know about myself. And so I was just so curious if there were things that you felt you learned about me that you didn't think I knew about myself. That's a really hard question.

[Sarah Paulson]

That's, like, so deep.

[Ryan Murphy]

Well, the thing I. The thing I think I just feel like I approach every. Everything about you with compassion because I would want someone to do that for me. Thanks, Bean, but no thanks needed. But I think, like, to go back to the tape so briefly, I know it's so upsetting, but, like, If I would give anyone the benefit of the doubt, like, I. If my mom. If someone recorded me and my mom, person I love and trust more than anyone other than my wife, like, or me and my wife, like, you'd say things in passing when you're chopping a cucumber.

[Sarah Paulson]

That's just a visual I have of me chopping my cucumber as you. But, like, you know, when you're making dinner or you're getting out of the shower or you're just living your fucking.

[Ryan Murphy]

Life, that out of context would sound so insane. Or not.

[Sarah Paulson]

Or so X, Y or Z, whatever word you want to put in. So.

[Ryan Murphy]

But it's like, this is just an. This was you talking to someone that you loved. And I think the thing that maybe I knew about you already and I know you know about yourself, is that especially in that moment, your heart was wide open.

[Sarah Paulson]

And I think you know that.

[Ryan Murphy]

I do think you know that. But to play it out every day.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Like, I never would have thought of it that way.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So.

[Beanie Feldstein]

You're right.

[Sarah Paulson]

Okay.

[Ryan Murphy]

Okay, good.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You're right.

[Beanie Feldstein]

But I don't think I would have. I don't think I would have thought about it that way.

[Ryan Murphy]

Okay, good. I got to a good answer. I think.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Beanie Feldstein]

You've got a prize.

[Sarah Paulson]

Thank you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

No, no, but it's interesting with the tapes too, because I was curious about, you know, you and Sarah Paulson became.

[Sarah Paulson]

Super close, which is so unbelievably weird. Right?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right.

[Sarah Paulson]

Because we were playing the most fucked up friendship story ever of all time.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So what I didn't know was, did you guys do that on purpose to feel the closeness? Did the idea of Sarah ever potentially betray you in that way?

[Sarah Paulson]

Oh, no.

[Monica Lewinsky]

How did that work?

[Sarah Paulson]

Well, I. First of all, Paulson was like, on my top three of people that I was desperate to work with. Like, there were other projects that came up that I, you know, when I would see her name on an email, I'd be like, can I please audition? Get it? Like, she was always in my. After watching her as Marcia Clark, I was like, this is one of the greatest we have. And I have to learn from her. And I, in order to do that, I have to work with her.

[Ryan Murphy]

Right.

[Sarah Paulson]

And so when Ryan called me, he was like, sarah's playing Linda Tripp. And I literally fell to the floor. I was like, this. This is my, like, Juilliard. This is my Yale school. This is like, when I get to learn in a way that I've never been able to learn. In addition to bringing something very Important to life playing you. It really was so just intrinsic.

[Ryan Murphy]

She actually emailed me when after Lady Bird came out and she wrote me an email that I still have saved on my emails about my performance and.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like that literally changed my life. Like that email.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like her reaching out as such a seasoned actor and seeing me and I was so young and I was so green when that, when I filmed that movie that like to reach out to me, she didn't have to do that. Like it was so touching. And so I knew that she was an open hearted person.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, she's a very special person.

[Sarah Paulson]

She's the speciest. But I think I can only speak for myself. I really don't think either of us.

[Ryan Murphy]

Were like, we have to be best friends. It just fell into place. And also we were filming during COVID.

[Sarah Paulson]

Where we only really had each other to see because everything was so locked down. And also, if there's one thing you know about Sarah, is that she cares. I thought I cared 100%. She cares 150% about her work and takes it so seriously. And so we were just in constant.

[Ryan Murphy]

Communication about how we wanted to play things and.

[Sarah Paulson]

And we were also both producers in addition to you on the project. So we were just in constant communication and it just, it just really fell into place. But then it was so weird. Like at the. We had that weird screening of the. I only say weird because again, it was Covid. We couldn't bring anyone of the finale. That was like the night I asked her to be my bridesmaid in my wedding.

[Ryan Murphy]

And it's just like so wild that.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like after screening, you know, the end of a tragic, devastating, horrible friendship story, that that was what came out of it, you know, And I think, like, I don't think either of us pushed it.

[Ryan Murphy]

It just really fell into place.

[Beanie Feldstein]

There were so many aspects of this project and process that were new to me, but also things that I felt like origami that I had to kind of open and, and think about from different perspectives in a way. And that was even sitting down to have dinner with her, you know, to try to answer some questions for her about Linda. And it's just. It was such a strange, surreal. It was very surreal is the perfect. Is the perfect word. But can we talk about. Do you talk about your wedding at all? Sure. Okay. Can we talk about your wedding? Just a little? Because it was such a magical. It was such. So magical.

[Ryan Murphy]

I'm so touched that you came.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh my gosh, of course.

[Ryan Murphy]

So special to have you there.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, I loved being There it was such a special moment too. Of. I remember first of all, it was this gorgeous. It was at a camp and it was this gorgeous physical environment of being out in the trees. So it was forest and water.

[Ryan Murphy]

Yes.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's called Cedar Lakes Estate and it's a venue that used to be an actual working summer camp. Then it was an Olympic training camp. And then this Italian family bought it. And when two of the sisters grew up, one of them was a chef and one of them was in like events and interiors. And they were like, this is something really special. Let us take it over.

[Ryan Murphy]

And now it's like the most beautiful place to get married or have a special event.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Well, and it was, it was so interesting because it started to rain right before.

[Sarah Paulson]

Don't I know.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yes, exactly. But it was this. We're sitting outside in this incredible view and it's misty and it's just. Everything was so filled with love. And then you were dressed by Gucci that was even more fabulous and had lots of outfits. Yes, lots of outfits. How many outfits did you have for the wedding total? Because it was couple days.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yes, it was like Friday, Saturday, Sunday the Friday Bon wore Bodhi suit and I wore Vidarte dress. And then Saturday they made us both out.

[Ryan Murphy]

Gucci made us both outfits, which is just surreal. It's also the first time I think they've ever dressed both people in the couple.

[Sarah Paulson]

They do a lot of grooms, but.

[Ryan Murphy]

They don't do a lot of brides.

[Sarah Paulson]

And certainly like, I don't know if.

[Ryan Murphy]

They'Ve ever done a bride wearing a.

[Sarah Paulson]

Suit, but I think it was one.

[Ryan Murphy]

Of their first times doing that. And they were, I cannot say how unbelievably generous they were. Like, they made Bon six bow ties so that she could pick the one.

[Sarah Paulson]

She wanted on the day. And for me, I know you're very woo woo. So I'm gonna tell this story.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, okay, good.

[Sarah Paulson]

Cause I am too. I'm very. Again, open hearted, open soul, whatever you want to say.

[Ryan Murphy]

But for my dress, they sent five sketches.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh my goodness.

[Ryan Murphy]

And they were like, pick the one that you want. And I had narrowed it down to two. And fawn, just for reference. My wife is so many things, but she's not super woo woo.

[Sarah Paulson]

She's like very grounded and practical. Practical. She's a Capricorn. She's like, you know, if I can't see it, I don't know if it's there, you know. And I didn't show her the dresses.

[Ryan Murphy]

Because I wanted to keep it a surprise.

[Sarah Paulson]

For the day. And I was like, I think I.

[Ryan Murphy]

Know which one I'm gonna go for, but I'm deciding between two. And we went to sleep, and we wake up, and Bon was like, oh, my God, I had a dream about your grandma last night. And my grandma passed away during COVID right before we started filming. And we called her Nan. And she was like, nan was in my dream. And I was like, what? And she never has dreams like this. And we both have had a lot of loss in our life. And she was like, this is the first time I've ever had, like, a dream like this. My grandma had rheumatoid arthritis, so her hands were really bad at the end.

[Beanie Feldstein]

My Oma did too.

[Ryan Murphy]

Really?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Ryan Murphy]

Ashkenazi Jew.

[Sarah Paulson]

And her hands were really, really bad at the end. For years at the end. And she couldn't really move them.

[Ryan Murphy]

Very painful. And she was like. She was pouring me tea, and I was like, man, your hands. And she was like, I feel no pain here. So crazy. And then she was like, tell Beanie she has to pick the one with the bow. One bow, not the other one. And Bon was like, what? And she was like, just tell her.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, are you serious?

[Sarah Paulson]

And Bon, literally, like, I wish she was here. Cause she would confirm. Like, she does not. This is not a common occurrence. She doesn't really. She's not necessarily open to things like this. But this was, like, clear as day. And I think it's, like, starting to turn her, which is great. But she was just like, I have.

[Ryan Murphy]

To pass along the message that you should pick this one. And I was like, that's the one.

[Sarah Paulson]

I was gonna pick.

[Ryan Murphy]

So that's the dress I ended up wearing, which I feel that my grandma, my nan, had a part in picking. And it was so beautiful. I've never felt more beautiful than in that dress. But the whole wedding, our goal was, like, for it to be really casual and cozy and not stuffy or too fancy or just anything that felt detached from us.

[Beanie Feldstein]

It was. All of it was great. It was very. It was very elegant and cozy.

[Sarah Paulson]

Really perfect. Thank you so much.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So you mentioned having a lot of loss.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yes.

[Beanie Feldstein]

And you're very close to your family. So for people who may not know, tell me about just your upbringing, your family, because your family is, like me, the most important.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yes. Very, very, very close.

[Ryan Murphy]

So, like you, I grew up in west la. My parents are both from New York originally, and my whole extended family is from New York.

[Sarah Paulson]

So I immediately left LA and went.

[Ryan Murphy]

To Wesleyan, where I studied Sociology. And then I moved right to New York.

[Sarah Paulson]

I always knew that I wanted to be on the East Coast. I've always felt very much like an.

[Ryan Murphy]

East coast person that grew up in la.

[Sarah Paulson]

And you know, my mom is like a thick Long island accent even though she's lived in la for like 50 years. Yeah, we're just New Yorkers. We're real. That's our energy.

[Ryan Murphy]

I grew up loving performing. I always knew that I wanted to be an actor. But I also went to a really beautifully academic high school called Harvard Westlake.

[Sarah Paulson]

The best thing that came out of it is that all of my best friends to this day, now that I'm in my 30s, are still from high school. And, you know, we're just kind of.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like this troupe of artists.

[Sarah Paulson]

But more than that, we're still inseparably close. And that is the greatest gift the school gave me. But it also gave me a real love for my academic self. And so when I went to Wesleyan, I loved it because there was so much access to the arts, but it was also quite rigorous. And I studied sociology because I really wanted to broaden my perspective and pop.

[Ryan Murphy]

The bubble of, you know, some of the very narrow mindset that I was brought up in. Not necessarily in my family, but just like the privileged, you know, private school thing. I just wanted to expand my mind. And I also think, even though I.

[Sarah Paulson]

Always knew I wanted to be an actor, I feel personally that the phrase that's like, don't do it unless it's the only thing you can do.

[Ryan Murphy]

I hate that phrase.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Interesting.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's very common with actors. Like, don't pursue it unless it's the only thing that you can do or want to do.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Okay. I don't think I've heard that. Maybe because I don't want to be an actor.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I did try to do musical theater.

[Beanie Feldstein]

For five minutes, but, you know, it's.

[Sarah Paulson]

So common and I hate it because.

[Ryan Murphy]

I think it leads to very narrow minded actors. And I could do and would love to do several other things. And I do do some of them outside of acting.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I don't actually know this well, one.

[Ryan Murphy]

Of them, which we could probably get.

[Sarah Paulson]

To, which is what I was thinking about is my reclaiming is that I am on the board of and I volunteer for a grief organization, which we can get to.

[Beanie Feldstein]

But yeah, I definitely want to talk about that.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah, I think to just finish the loop on school. I think I really knew I wanted to be an actor, but I knew that putting blinders on and only studying.

[Ryan Murphy]

Theater for the Rest of my life.

[Sarah Paulson]

Was not going to make me the person I wanted to be, let alone the actor I wanted to be.

[Ryan Murphy]

And I think it's different for everyone.

[Sarah Paulson]

But for me, expanding my mind and expanding my perspective and seeing the world more clearly just helps me in my storytelling.

[Ryan Murphy]

But more importantly, like, I think makes.

[Sarah Paulson]

Me a better person that's more connected to the world, which is more important than being a good actor for me. But. Yeah. So that was sort of like the.

[Ryan Murphy]

Quickest way I could describe myself up until this moment.

[Beanie Feldstein]

It's interesting you say that, because I remember when I came out of graduate school and I wanted to do sort of. They called it pro social marketing or something like that. And I. One of the things I was looking at was in advertising because I was interested in how a strong creative can change social behavior. And I talked to someone at an ad agency, and he was saying that he only hired people who didn't study advertising because he wanted different perspectives brought in. And so I think that's some of what you're saying, too, is that you're bringing layered life experience to your craft in that way.

[Sarah Paulson]

And, you know, in a role like you.

[Beanie Feldstein]

In a role like playing you.

[Sarah Paulson]

In a role like playing you. You know, the study of sociology at Wesleyan for four years really came because there was a lot to explore and unpack and on a societal level, not just on a personal level. So when we were talking about the show, you know, when we were putting it out, I would often say, which is hard to say to your face, but I felt like you were a meal for society to feast upon.

[Ryan Murphy]

That was often how I would describe it because I felt like they were just, like, picking up pieces of you, and it's such a toxic part of.

[Sarah Paulson]

What our society can do. And so much of what I know you do in your advocacy and your activism.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah. But also it's interesting because I'm now exec producing this limited series on Amanda Knox.

[Ryan Murphy]

Yes.

[Beanie Feldstein]

And Amanda's an EP on the project. And I think a lot of what drew me to it was that same thing of a young woman being feasted on by the world. I mean, and that's that I say that all the time. I think I stole it from the showrunner. But it is. It's interesting. And so I think that that's. Those kinds of stories, it's so important for society to see reflected to us what we do.

[Ryan Murphy]

I think it also.

[Sarah Paulson]

It can happen in an unbelievably public stage, like it did for you or for her.

[Ryan Murphy]

But it can also happen like in your classroom or in your workplace.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like it doesn't always have to be something that's happening so publicly and on such a world Internet stage. It's also a feeling that I think several people feel when they are made to be the punching bag in a.

[Ryan Murphy]

Situation or something like that. And I think I felt it throughout.

[Sarah Paulson]

My life in moments. You know, I think everybody has, which is another reason I think exploring that side of what happened to you was, as you said, very touching and almost universal, even though it's such a specific thing, because there we've all felt that we have been like the punching bag or the family shamed or publicly shamed.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I mean, I'll often say to people, you know, cause someone will, they'll start to tell their public shaming story or whatever and they'll say, well, but it's nothing like what you went through. And, and I always say the same thing, which is that if I drown in 60ft of water and you drown in 30, we both drowned totally. There's no sort of winning public humiliation. No one wants to win. No one wants to win.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thanks so much to Audible, our presenting sponsor. Let Audible expand your life by listening. Look, we're all trying to better ourselves, right? And sometimes finding the time to sit down and read can feel impossible. With Audible, you'll have access to over a million audiobooks and podcasts right at your fingertips, whether you're going for a walk or just making dinner. And by making dinner, I also mean ordering delivery. You can tap into all this amazing content, from thought leaders to experts who really get it. And let me tell you something, whatever you're interested in, it's there. If you're into health and wellness, they've got you covered. Trying to get into meditation, there's stuff for that too. Looking for a good laugh? Oh, my gosh, so much good content. And being able to listen while you're doing other things makes it so much more doable. Let Audible help you reach the goals you set for yourself. Start listening today when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com reclaiming thanks so much to our sponsor, Reformation. I want to take a second to talk about one of my favorite clothing brands, Reformation. You've probably seen Reformation on Instagram or at a wedding. They make the best guesting dresses. But if you're like me, you may have thought that's all they do. Well, you're in for a pleasant surprise. Last year, they worked with Yours Truly and Vote.org on a campaign to empower voters to take part in the democratic process and show off their workwear from doing the campaign and getting to know the brand even better. I love their sweaters, blouses, workwear, shoes, and bags. But most important, I love how confident I feel in their stuff. Plus, it really holds up since they make everything with super high quality, sustainable materials. Reformation is also a brand that uses their growing platform to do good in the world, and especially in the sustainable fashion space. As they say, being naked is the number one most sustainable option. Reformation is number two. If you're looking for clothes you want to feel great in and feel better about, head to reformation.com.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Your family is so important to you, and you're. I don't know if there's one person who's listening to this who doesn't know that your brother Jonah Hill is Jonah Hill.

[Sarah Paulson]

That's correct.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So also an actor. So I'm also curious if there was competition there growing up. Whatever.

[Sarah Paulson]

None.

[Monica Lewinsky]

None.

[Sarah Paulson]

None.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Okay. But you're a very sort of entertainment.

[Sarah Paulson]

Adjacent, adjacent family, right?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Because your mom was a costume designer and your dad is an accountant for a rock band. For what rock band?

[Sarah Paulson]

My dad is an accountant, but he does work with musicians and actors. But it's so funny because people will be like, the Internet makes it sound like my dad is, like, in the recording studio with people. And I'm like, my dad files taxes. My dad is an accountant who wears his pants up to his nose. This is not the glamour.

[Beanie Feldstein]

He's so sweet.

[Sarah Paulson]

He's the nicest man.

[Beanie Feldstein]

He's such a sweetie.

[Sarah Paulson]

He's such an angel. But he is an accountant. That's what he does. And my mom went to fit, Started in costume design. She worked on Taxi and a few sitcoms in that era and then pivoted to kind of personal styling, which really wasn't an engine like it is today. I mean, now stylists are sort of so famous, and it's such a world of, like, whose style is this actor or this singer? But my mom is very good with trends, and she's very ahead of her time. And so she was kind of doing that, like, the late 80s, early 90s, when that wasn't really a thing.

[Ryan Murphy]

And then she invented the Sparkle Watch. Did you know this fabric?

[Beanie Feldstein]

No. No, I did not.

[Ryan Murphy]

So she was, like, the first person.

[Sarah Paulson]

To put a Swarovski crystal on anything. Oh, this is an iconic part of Shade Story.

[Monica Lewinsky]

My gosh.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah. This is like, 1999 into 2000.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Wow.

[Sarah Paulson]

And her company made the Carrie Bradshaw cell phone. But then people Very quickly realized they could make it for, like, way less. And she had no stake in the game. She just, like, knew it would be a trend, and so she didn't, you know, she kind of let that go. Once people started copying her, she was like, I don't care enough to, like, keep at the fight of, you know, a business. And all along, she has always been very, very committed to philanthropy, and she was on the board of several charities.

[Ryan Murphy]

When I was growing up.

[Sarah Paulson]

And I think if there's one thing that all five Feldsteins share. So my mom, my dad, my oldest brother Jordan, who died, and then Jonah, and then me, is insane work ethic. We all work fiercely. And a lot of generosity that was, like, really instilled in us from our parents.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like, you have to give back, and.

[Sarah Paulson]

You have to find the thing that really propels you in giving back. And my whole adult life, I always was kind of searching for that thing that would really capture my heart and make me want to, you know, dive in.

[Ryan Murphy]

And so my brother Jordy Jordan died.

[Sarah Paulson]

When I was 24. And it was extremely sudden and horrible.

[Ryan Murphy]

And that obviously shook my whole world, shook my whole family. Thank you. And two years ago, I was on.

[Sarah Paulson]

TikTok, which I don't have anymore, but I was on then. And, you know, videos are just given to you on TikTok. You don't look for them.

[Ryan Murphy]

And this video popped up of a little boy, and he was talking about how his father had died of a heart attack. He was maybe nine or ten. And that camp made him feel so much more comfortable talking about it and that all of his friends at camp understood. And I was like, what am I watching right now?

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, I also went to camp for 10 years.

[Ryan Murphy]

Like, summer camp.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, I was gonna say your wedding. There was a whole. Your camp friend table.

[Sarah Paulson]

Right, Exactly. And my parents met at summer camp. Teenagers. So camp is a huge part, maybe hard work, generosity. Camp is, like, a huge part of the Feldstein way. And so I was like, camp and grief and children. Like, what am I watching right now? And it was from an account called Experience Camps. And I immediately did, like, the deepest dive, you know, And I watched this short documentary they have on their website. I did, like, a deep throw dive of the website.

[Ryan Murphy]

And basically, the organization is a nonprofit that sends children that have experienced the death of a parent or a sibling or a primary caregiver to camp for one week, completely, no cost. And every child there has experienced that as well. And so not only are you getting people out of their Kids, not people out of their environment and putting on.

[Sarah Paulson]

An amazing one week, you know, activity for them.

[Ryan Murphy]

But they are surrounded by people that get that and understand that. And it's. I have Monica.

[Sarah Paulson]

It makes me want to cry. Like it is the most special week of my year.

[Ryan Murphy]

The way that we are able to.

[Sarah Paulson]

Exist in joy and grief at the same time is something that I wish.

[Ryan Murphy]

All of our society could feel and could get to when it comes to grief. And I think a big part of.

[Sarah Paulson]

Experience camps is changing the narrative around loss and grief for these kids so.

[Ryan Murphy]

That they can grow up in a.

[Sarah Paulson]

Society that's better than the one we currently have.

[Ryan Murphy]

When it comes to talking about death.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Is there sort of almost your own language of sort of a grief language that people that you see maybe with the kids or with the adults there, that there's just a way of talking or talking about something?

[Ryan Murphy]

That's a great question. So, yeah, I skipped this part, which.

[Sarah Paulson]

Is that I reached out to the organization and they were like, you should come volunteer. And so I go once a year for a week. I live in the bunk with the kids. I'm like, everything at Camp Counsel kids are so lucky.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh my gosh.

[Sarah Paulson]

I'm the lucky one. But it's a full on true summer camp experience. My girls were in sixth grade and seventh grade the past two summers that I've done it.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh my gosh.

[Sarah Paulson]

And you know, 11 and 12 year old girls. And to answer your question, the biggest thing, I was actually just talking to our clinical director this morning. The biggest thing that she instills in us as volunteers and hopefully in order to trickle down to the kids, is using clear and specific language.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Huh.

[Sarah Paulson]

So specifically for kids. And I'm not a clinician, I'm not a therapist, but this is what I've learned. Kids, developmentally, depending on how old they are, they. They don't understand euphemism, they don't understand abstract thoughts. Everything is quite concrete.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Okay.

[Sarah Paulson]

And so when you say things like crossed over or no longer with us, that doesn't mean anything to them, that's quite confusing.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Wow.

[Sarah Paulson]

And so they really instill in us.

[Ryan Murphy]

To say died, to say death, to.

[Sarah Paulson]

Say words and use language that is very clear.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah.

[Ryan Murphy]

And for a lot of people, they bristle.

[Sarah Paulson]

Right.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Especially the Jew. Or is the Jew like, it's very.

[Sarah Paulson]

It'S so not the way. And it's even hard for me. And even I practice it in this conversation of like when my brother died. And that's.

[Ryan Murphy]

It's very hard to say.

[Sarah Paulson]

But the kids have taught me it's such a, you know, through learning how to care for them that that language.

[Ryan Murphy]

Is actually quite helpful because they don't.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So interesting.

[Sarah Paulson]

They don't like or understand or a mixture of both. And neither do we really as an adult, like, in a better place. One of my campers said if my dad was in a better place, he'd be sitting right next to me right now. What are you talking about?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right.

[Ryan Murphy]

And they're, they are angry because that language is so frustrating.

[Beanie Feldstein]

He's in a better place and he never would have thought if he was.

[Sarah Paulson]

In a better place, he would be sitting next to me right now. I wouldn't be at grief camp, you know, And I think, like, instead it's.

[Ryan Murphy]

That your, your dad died and he's not here and he's not going to come back. It's fucking brutal to say, but it helps it sink in and it helps them. And those phrases, I think for adults as well, would probably agree they're very frustrating. And it's really more to make the.

[Sarah Paulson]

Other person feel more comfortable than it is the person who is experiencing the loss.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Did going to camp help you with another layer of grief about Jordi?

[Ryan Murphy]

Definitely.

[Sarah Paulson]

I mean, obviously our slogan at experience camps is FTK for the kids. So, like everything is always for the kids. But it would be foolish to say that we don't get so much out of it. And we do try to support the volunteers because most of us have lost someone. And so we'll do like, once the kids go to bed, one counselor will stay with them and the others can go to like their own staff grief.

[Ryan Murphy]

Circle and have their own time to process.

[Sarah Paulson]

But the magic of seeing like 150 girls scream Taylor Swift at the top of their lungs and dance in the dining hall, you would never know that you were looking at a grief camp.

[Ryan Murphy]

And then an hour later, they're in grief circle and they're talking about their people. They're showing us photos or sweaters or.

[Sarah Paulson]

Stuffies or whatever they brought from their person and we're getting into to the real heart of it with them and both can exist in the same space. And that is like the magic of camp. The fact that joy and grief, you.

[Ryan Murphy]

Know, it's almost like an inside out.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, you know, how sadness and joy, they exist their best together. Like, that is the heart of what we live at experience camps, which is like showing these kids that their grief is so real and they do not have to hide it, and that adults will listen and their peers will Listen and they understand.

[Ryan Murphy]

But also, it's okay to go in.

[Sarah Paulson]

The lake and jump off the board and scream and have fun and, you know, make friendship bracelets and play volleyball in the same day.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right. But I think one of the things that comes up for me is this idea that it's creating new societal norms around grief, which is. So. I think you were saying this about helping this younger generation grow up in a different way with it. You know, I think one of the things I have, I don't know, developed in the last decade or so is really coming to understand the many, you know, faces of grief. Right. And so the many ways that we grieve. And in fact, like, when I. I think when I was pitching this, the Reclaiming podcast, it was this idea of, you have so many stages in a reclaiming, and one of them is loss, because you have something that was lost or taken from you, you know, and grief always comes, even if it's just a moment. And I feel as if we don't, you know, we don't really talk about it. We don't talk about it because in part, because none of us.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I don't know.

[Beanie Feldstein]

For me, I think it feels like I'd be tickling some, you know, bad God, that would. If you start talking about it in a way that you're gonna bring it into your life.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's a superstitious thing, right?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Superstitious. And so I do find.

[Ryan Murphy]

Forgive me for interrupting.

[Sarah Paulson]

I do find that if I could give people one look, I'm just one griever. I don't represent every person that's grieving. But if there was one thing I could wish for people, it's that, you know, I think often when we find out someone has died, the first question is how? And I think that how did they die? Especially asking that to the person that has experienced loss. Yeah, it's really a reflection of their own fear. They want to know what to look out for. They want to. At least for those of us that experience anxiety, like they want. Like they want, we want to add another thing to our list of things that could happen to us or to be fearful of. And my wish for people listening is instead of letting the fear ask the question, which I've done it before, I understand, like, I have compassion. Ask about who the person was.

[Ryan Murphy]

What was their favorite thing to do on a Sunday?

[Sarah Paulson]

What was their favorite flavor of ice cream? Who were they in their life?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah.

[Ryan Murphy]

What.

[Sarah Paulson]

What is the thing you're most proud of that they did? You know, like, those questions how do you answer those?

[Beanie Feldstein]

About.

[Sarah Paulson]

Well, the thing I'm most proud of would be his sons, my nephews, which, you know, I. I want to protect their journey and their privacy, but they're the greatest thing to happen to our.

[Ryan Murphy]

Family and the most beautiful men now.

[Sarah Paulson]

And boys. I know crazy, but that's 100%.

[Ryan Murphy]

The thing I'm most proud of is the dad that he was.

[Sarah Paulson]

I think, like, I think that would be my biggest wish. And.

[Ryan Murphy]

And again, like, I have such compassion because I have OCD and anxiety, too.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, I understand our brains are trying to gather information to protect us. Right.

[Ryan Murphy]

So how did they die?

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, you want to know because it's. Your fear is asking that question. Right. But instead, if we could try to lead with, like, is there something you'd.

[Ryan Murphy]

Want to share about who they were?

[Sarah Paulson]

You know, it's. It's a. It's a great exercise in talking about who they are and were without being defined by the loss.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah, no, it's. I mean, I remember. I think I. Maybe I learned this from Instagram, which is a little embarrassing to say, but.

[Sarah Paulson]

We'Ve all done it.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Just even this idea of how important it is to not be trying to help people feel better in grief and sort of that moving on. And I think I definitely have a tendency to do that in all things of, like, how can we make this better right now? Because I don't want anyone to be.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Upset, you know, no suffering.

[Beanie Feldstein]

No suffering. But the reality is. But the reality being, you know, that.

[Sarah Paulson]

Was a Fiddler on the Roof quote, right?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yes, I voted.

[Sarah Paulson]

Exactly. Fahd and I were definitely not singing that the other day to each other as two women. But, yeah, I think that, you know, it makes sense why we do all these things.

[Ryan Murphy]

And it's just so ingrained again sociologically.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's so ingrained. Our society is so uncomfortable. Yeah.

[Ryan Murphy]

I'm sitting here wearing a bracelet that.

[Sarah Paulson]

Says both, which is in honor of my friend Gavin Creel, who just passed.

[Ryan Murphy]

Away, who just died.

[Sarah Paulson]

And see, it's even. Yeah, it's hard. And, yeah, it's also hard once you realize that that can really happen and.

[Ryan Murphy]

It happens to you, and then it happens again with, like, other people that you love.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's just shocking.

[Ryan Murphy]

You're just like, I thought we were.

[Sarah Paulson]

Like, I've hit my quota for pain. Like, I can't do this again. And then it.

[Ryan Murphy]

That's not how life works, you know?

[Sarah Paulson]

And so the. The more that we can speak openly about how hard it is, so comfortably.

[Beanie Feldstein]

In the discomfort, so comfortably in the.

[Ryan Murphy]

Discomfort and also, like, work together to.

[Sarah Paulson]

Be better about something that literally everyone is going to experience. No one is spared.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I was lucky and got to chat with Kara Swisher for.

[Sarah Paulson]

I Can't wait.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know. For the podcast. And she. Well, I guess I don't want to give anything away, but she lost her dad when she was 5. And, you know, just speak similarly of how it reshapes your lens for life.

[Ryan Murphy]

So perspective is a very difficult thing.

[Beanie Feldstein]

And did you.

[Sarah Paulson]

Okay, so beautiful, but difficult.

[Beanie Feldstein]

My family, like, we used gallows humor a lot.

[Sarah Paulson]

I mean, and yes, I know that about you. Yeah, I know that was hard for me.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, really?

[Sarah Paulson]

Why? I just.

[Ryan Murphy]

That's not.

[Sarah Paulson]

That's not at all my. My go to place.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Oh, okay. So I was, like, interesting.

[Sarah Paulson]

I'm kind of. You know, me. I'm kind of, like, secretly prude and, like, nervesies.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Like, I like.

[Sarah Paulson]

Sorry, continue what you were saying.

[Beanie Feldstein]

No, no.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I mean, in a way, it's.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I was gonna ask. I guess I just assume everybody uses humor in different ways, like, to help through difficult things. And so I imagine your family being very funny. Maybe I'm.

[Sarah Paulson]

My family is unbelievable. I'm the least funny person in my family by, like, 17 miles.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So did you use humor with Jordi's death? No. No. Okay, so that's always just. That's really interesting.

[Sarah Paulson]

Yeah. Again, it's very private, but I'll just leave it at, like, we haven't. But then, like, there are so many families I know through experience camps, through my wife, through my friends. Like, that really do. And that really helps them. So. Yeah, again, it's like. It's like, follow the leader. You know, I think, like, if someone opens that door to you, like, you know, if. If you're someone that hasn't experienced grief and that person opens that door and wants you to step in it, step in it.

[Ryan Murphy]

But if they don't, don't open the door.

[Sarah Paulson]

You know?

[Beanie Feldstein]

Like, I really feel like that's helpful.

[Ryan Murphy]

It's. And sometimes we don't know what we fucking want.

[Sarah Paulson]

That's, like the trickiest part. But, like, you know, one day it's. We gotta cry it out, sit next to us, rub our back, let it happen. And the next day it's like, distract, distract, distract, distract.

[Ryan Murphy]

Be in the distraction.

[Sarah Paulson]

You know, I think, like, just supporting what you feel the need is, or if they express what the need is.

[Ryan Murphy]

Is, like, always the goal.

[Sarah Paulson]

But again, the trickiest bit can be like, I don't know, like, when that person doesn't know what's right. For a long time, I used work to really, like, just plunge myself into something else.

[Ryan Murphy]

And then eventually that stopped working.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Well, I was thinking that we would finish out our chat with a pop quiz on questions about me. I'm just kidding. No, no.

[Sarah Paulson]

Oh, my God. You know, like my straight A book smart side. I was like, I will nail this quiz.

[Ryan Murphy]

I know I will.

[Beanie Feldstein]

So something that I'm asking all my guests is, what is something that you're working on reclaiming right now?

[Sarah Paulson]

I think I sort of answered it, but I can make it a little bit more clear. And I think it will be a forever. I think the ing is very important. I think, like, there will never be an ed of, like, it's done. Reclaimed, period. But reclaiming, I think through the kids.

[Ryan Murphy]

And through my Work With Experience camps, I think it's what grief is, like, what loss is.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's emotional, but it's like.

[Ryan Murphy]

If we can help them change what it feels like to be a child that's lost someone, and for those of us that can start to change for us as.

[Sarah Paulson]

Adults, what it can be like to.

[Ryan Murphy]

Lose someone, we're never going to get rid of loss, but if we can add more community and less loneliness around it, that's the goal. And I think it's something that I will always, now that I found this.

[Sarah Paulson]

Work, like, always be working on reclaiming for myself and also, like, for my.

[Ryan Murphy]

Dear friends that I've made and my family and the kids, like, reclaiming how our society sees grief maybe would be my answer. An emotional answer.

[Sarah Paulson]

Sorry, but your podcast is emotional. I've listened to it. You go there with people and. But we could never not go there.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know. And it's just. You know what? I feel so strongly. I'm so not interested in small talk. I want the real. I want the connection. It's what I'm hoping people get from the conversations is even if they're not sitting here with us, that they feel connected.

[Ryan Murphy]

Definitely.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Vinnie, thank you so much for coming to do this.

[Monica Lewinsky]

This is so special.

[Sarah Paulson]

Has it been like four hours? I don't know how long it's been. It feels like it's been no time and all the time.

[Beanie Feldstein]

I know. I know. And love you so much.

[Sarah Paulson]

Love you too. Thank you for doing this.

[Ryan Murphy]

Cheers.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Yeah.

[Ryan Murphy]

You don't want to choose the water, though.

[Sarah Paulson]

It's.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, no. Oh, no.

[Beanie Feldstein]

Right? I know. It's bad luck.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky Production Services by WTF Media Studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin and our music supervisor is Scott Villack. Our story producer is Elna Baker and our senior producer is Megan Donis. For Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez Wren and Emily Feld Brake and executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin O'Flaherty and Marshall Louie.