Podcast Summary: Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky

Episode: Elise Loehnen & Courtney Smith
Date: January 6, 2026
Host: Monica Lewinsky
Guests: Elise Loehnen (author, podcaster), Courtney Smith (coach, Enneagram expert)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the cultural pressures on women to perform “goodness” at the expense of wholeness, examining how historical and societal narratives impact self-perception, behavior, and personal transformation. Monica is joined by Elise Loehnen and Courtney Smith to discuss their collaborative work—particularly their new "Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness" workbook—offering an incisive look at reclaiming one's authentic self. The conversation weaves in Enneagram insights, the concept of the shadow self, group healing work, and the often fraught process of challenging internalized stories.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cultural Programming: Goodness vs. Power

• [00:19] Elise introduces the core thesis:

  “Women in our culture are programmed or conditioned to perform goodness, while men are conditioned to perform power.”
  She describes how “good” women are never tired, always put others first, and are “sexy but not sexual.”

• [11:30] Goodness is also about suppressing personal needs, appetite, anger, and even conversations about money.

2. Personal Connections and Enneagram Dynamics

• Monica describes her first meeting with Elise as having a "dharmic" and instant connection.
• Courtney is introduced as “the Enneagram Queen,” credited with bringing a nuanced synthesis of tools—including Enneagram—to help people reframe inherited gender stories.
• [06:31]–[07:50] Enneagram explained: It's a system of nine personality types; both Elise and Courtney are type 6 (the Loyalist), whereas Monica is between a type 2 (the Helper) and type 3 (the Achiever).

3. The Seven Deadly Sins & Performative Goodness

• [09:40] Elise contextualizes her book, On Our Best Behavior, linking the pressure to be "good" to the Seven Deadly Sins (sloth, envy, pride, lust, greed, gluttony, anger).
  • Memorable Quote:

    “A good woman is sexy but not sexual—an object and not a subject. You can be desirable, but not desiring.” (Elise, [12:13])

  • Women police themselves and each other, maintaining these restrictive scripts even as they suppress anger and desire.

4. Projection, Shame, and Group Dynamics

• [12:20]–[13:58] Courtney and Monica discuss how public women become screens for society's unresolved issues, with other women often participating in the policing of each other.
• [19:08]–[21:36] The workbook’s group format is described as a tool for unlocking shame; by expressing wants and potentially “bad” desires in a safe group, women see their fears of rejection are usually unfounded, fostering compassion and connection.

5. Envy as a Tool for Self-Discovery

• [22:03]–[27:09] Elise describes how envy, typically repressed by women, actually points us towards what we want.
  • Example: Recognizing unconscious envy in reactions to others' success:

    “This is my unconscious envy saying, I want what she has. I want to be doing what she's doing.” (Elise, [24:15])

• In groups, admitting desires creates emotional releases; everyone’s wants differ, defusing scarcity and competition.

6. Midlife and the Process of Rewriting Stories

• [51:26] Monica observes that midlife often brings a reckoning and desire for a “factory reset”—questioning old stories and embracing the slow process of transformation.
• [55:42] Micro changes and “accepting the slow process” are emphasized over the myth of the light switch transformation.

7. Fact vs. Story – Tools and Takeaways

• [51:59]–[56:09] Elise and Courtney explain how the workbook helps surface and examine core stories (e.g., “I’m the only one who can do things right” or “good moms put children first”), recognize their costs, and incrementally shift behavior using agency, compassion, and play.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Proving Goodness:

  "A good woman is never mad or angry... We have endless terms for angry women... The only real words we have for men who are angry are bastard and son of a bitch, which both lay the blame on the woman, on the mother."
  — Elise ([13:13])

• On Group Work and Shame:

  "If you do the work in a group setting, you get to learn: does that actually happen, that when I stand up for myself, all these women disapprove? ...More often than not...the whole group goes, 'Oh, I'm doing the same thing.'"
  — Courtney ([19:52])

• On Reclaiming After “Moral Fall”:

  “There was a part of me that also knew the fallen woman doesn’t get to get back up... What if I don’t give up on that idea of getting back up?”
  — Monica ([31:19])

• On Wholeness Over Goodness:

  “Wholeness...indicates an embrace of our full humanity, including the parts of ourselves that maybe are works in progress or that we don’t love so much or that bring us shame.”
  — Elise ([33:35])

  "Wholeness for me is about, can I be with whatever is naturally arising in me in this moment without judgment?... There is a wisdom to this part of me that’s showing up in this now moment."
  — Courtney ([36:32])

• On “The Drama Triangle”:

  “When I relate to the world from a place of fear...I really start seeing the world through a very filtered lens of good, bad, right, wrong...Anyone in my sphere is going to need to play three roles: victim, villain, or hero.”
  — Courtney ([68:58])

• On Embodying Wholeness:

  “The more we can embody wholeness, the more we can sit in the ‘I’m okay, no matter what happens,’ because basically, I’m in the driver’s seat about everything with myself. It’s less external.”
  — Monica ([77:05])

Important Segments & Timestamps

• 00:19 — Cultural scripts: performing goodness vs. power (Elise)
• 06:31 — Introduction to Enneagram; Monica’s type discussion
• 09:40–15:35 — The Seven Deadly Sins and their application to women’s lives
• 19:52 — How group work addresses shame and fear of judgment (Courtney)
• 22:03–27:09 — Envy as a gateway to desire; transformative group exercises (Elise)
• 31:19 — Monica on surviving moral “fall” and public projection
• 33:35–37:52 — Difference between goodness and wholeness
• 51:59–56:09 — Fact vs. story: surfacing and transforming personal narratives
• 68:58 — The Drama Triangle: Victim, Villain, Hero explained
• 77:05 — Reclaiming the self from external validation

Final Reflections: What the Guests Are Reclaiming (Closing Question)

[77:56]

• Courtney:

  “I am in the process of reclaiming my relationship to my own intuition—my own self knowing... What does it feel like to really trust myself?”

• Elise:

  “I’m reclaiming the belief that I deserve support and unhooking from feeling like this is a quid pro quo universe... Letting the story about my extreme competence and self-sufficiency go.”

Episode Tone

The discussion is candid, deeply reflective, and supportive, blending humor and vulnerability. Monica brings her own lived experience into the conversation, generating moments that are both therapeutic and universally resonant. Elise and Courtney provide practical frameworks and nuanced commentary, empowering listeners to start their own reclamation journeys.

Useful For:
Anyone who seeks to understand or challenge the “good woman” narrative, wants to integrate all aspects of themselves, or is looking for practical and compassionate tools for self-discovery and lasting change.