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- [00:00]
A
Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.
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B
I'm a very nostalgic kind of person. Like, I. I don't even know if it's nostalgic. But I do tend to think about the past and worry about the future. And I am trying to more on just being present in the moment.
- [00:35]
A
Me too. Reclaiming is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies. So you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode@progressive.com. progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Is your AI built to work with your business's data? IBM helps you integrate and govern unstructured data wherever it lives so your business can have more accurate AI instead of just more of it. Get your Data ready for AI@IBM.com. the AI built for business. IBM. Hi, Julia.
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B
Hi, Monica.
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A
Welcome to Reclaiming.
- [01:38]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [01:40]
A
I'm delighted. Me too. We haven't met before, but we do have a friend in common who. Which is the amazing, talented Carmen Cuba.
- [01:49]
B
Oh, my God. I love Carmen. She literally puts me in, like, every single movie that I'm in, by the way. No, she's like my guardian angel sent from heaven. I love her. It's so important, especially in this industry, to, like, have someone that really believes in you and is saying your name in these rooms because otherwise it's just. It just looks very bleak. It's a very competitive industry.
- [02:14]
A
No, she's good.
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B
Yeah, it's good to have someone in your corner. And she's amazing. What are you working with her on?
- [02:23]
A
She cast the show that is That I executive produced that's coming out so soon. She cast our show for us.
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B
What show is that?
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A
The twisted tale of Amanda Knox.
- [02:33]
B
Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, I know all of. I know all about Amanda Knox because I'm Italian. So, yes, it was a big deal. Like all those horrible things that happened to you and, like, use it as a gift and something that you can build upon and something that you can help people with. And now you have this wisdom from this lived experience that Is so rare. And I'm sure you can understand, you know, like the most unique situations ever. But with that, if life was a video game, you're like, boss level.
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A
Well, it's interesting. I went to. This was pre pandemic. I went to a shaman because I'm woo woo.
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B
Yeah, I do, I get it.
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A
I went to a shaman in New York and you have to sort of give your life history in five minutes. Which of course I couldn't do. It's like, sit down, pour yourself a cup of tea. And she said something to me about the. That the kind of beauty or the blessing of all that had happened was that the wisdom went in early, you know, that the wisdom comes from the trauma. And so I had amassed. You know, I imagine you feel that way too, that when you've sort of gone through so much and it differently.
- [03:44]
B
At the time when you're young, it just feels like a very heavy burden to carry for such a. On such a small frame. But then you strengthen up and you're like, I got this. You know. But of course there are days like we're human where it's like you just feel bad about yourself.
- [03:59]
A
Yeah.
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B
Like, why me? Like, why can't I? You know, I look at maybe like a nepotism actress and I'm like, why couldn't my dad have like done something with his life? You know, you get resentful at all these like irrational things. But really I love my dad. And he's so. He does construction and you know what? He helps me with everything, you know, teaches me how to like do electrical work. And like, I love. My favorite store is Home Depot. I love Home Depot. I love it. I like walking. I'm like, I feel so powerful when I'm Home Depot.
- [04:27]
A
Like, I can build something. I don't know what any of these tags are, but I can learn. Yeah, exactly. I took.
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B
It's amazing. So empowering. And me and my dad love going to Home Depot together and. Oh, that's so cute. You know, and if he were some like Hollywood exec, he probably would be too busy to come help me with my toilet, you know, whatever.
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A
Right. Isn't one of the love languages time or something or acts of service?
- [04:52]
B
Like, my dad's love language is totally acts of service. Like I remember when I first. And he has a lot of trauma too. And when I know who doesn't? We have to give our parents some grace because they are. Their parents were this silent generation and they were all sorts of fucked up. So we got to give Our boomers.
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A
Some capital S on the silent.
- [05:10]
B
Yes. And I remember I just given birth, and my dad couldn't, like, call me to just be like, hey, I want to come visit the baby. So he would just show up and be like, oh, I'm here to fix the. The window. The window that wouldn't open. Yeah. And he'd just be, like, working around the house and, like, sneaking Gl that my son. And then I was like, do you want to just hold the baby? And he was like, yeah. I mean, you know, I. I'll finish this one.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah, I can hold them. I can hold it. Like, it was so interesting to see that. That he couldn't just allow himself that, like, I guess, indulgence or something, you know, And. But we've worked through it, and now he's. Yeah, he still shows up and announced. That's his thing. Okay.
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A
I don't know that I would do so well.
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B
Yeah, it's rough. He has the codes. He is coming in, the alarm's going off. It's always, we know. We know when Tom's there for sure. But he's. He's become an indispensable part of my life. I literally just hired the biohacker because I need him to get on all the endings and the. The enzymes and all the.
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A
You'll have to fill me.
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B
I will. I know an amazing guy in New York my friend put me onto, because I literally. I'm. I'm now at a point where I'm, like, stressing out about my dad getting older and him not being in my life anymore. And I feel, like, so bad that we missed so much time together because I would go years without talking. Like, I remember I had his number blocked once and, like, forgot and didn't even realize. Yeah. Like, I didn't realize. Like, I haven't even heard from my dad in, like, over a year. You know, like, it was like that. So I do feel this, like, urgency to make up for lost time because he is someone that I absolutely am obsessed with, and I hope he never listens to this. He doesn't need to know that I.
- [06:54]
A
I give my parents. I'm like, I'll tell them. I'll say, you can't listen to this episode. You know, so the others. Okay, fine. I'm just curious around what was a moment. You don't have to tell me the details of what led to blocking him.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I can totally tell you. Oh, okay.
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A
I mean, I just. Because what I'm curious about, but if you want to tell the story. That's great. I was just so curious about what that felt like.
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B
Yeah.
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A
To sort of. I mean. I mean, not saying that to my dad, if you're listening.
- [07:22]
B
So it was. It wasn't anything about me. I had my brother who's in prison now, and guess who had predicted that he would end up in prison right here? And I was saying, we need to have an intervention. We need to have an intervention. And I was like, there's something wrong here. There's really something wrong. He's really struggling. I'm pretty sure he's on drugs. Like, he acts like a drug addict. And obviously I would know the signs. I only knew the half of it. I ended up uncovering there was so much more going on after he got arrested. We were like, damn. But my parents were just completely, like, in denial. And I. I tried everything, and then eventually I was like, if you guys don't do something for your son, I'm just never going to talk to you guys again. And they were like, okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So for, like, a year, I just didn't talk to them, and they didn't come looking or searching for me. And I just forgot.
- [08:19]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. And then he ended up in prison, and it. And it was a big told you so moment. And now I will say my dad now, like, really listens to me now. Like, we had a moment and he apologized and. Because then he was gonna have to clean up the mess right here. Yeah. Yeah. Because my mom lives in Italy and has a completely separate life from us.
- [08:42]
A
Did you. Was that your role growing up, too?
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B
Yeah, very much like woman of the house. And I think that's why when my mom would come over and then she was the woman of the house, I think we just clashed a lot, you know, because she'd come in and want to act like a parent, and I was like, what? Doesn't work that way. You know, I'm my own parent. I'm my own mother. And you're just annoying and taking up space.
- [09:04]
A
Well, even. Even when they are good mothers, they're annoying. Yeah, I bet.
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B
I'm sure. I'm sure.
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A
But. No, no, but it's. It is. It's interesting because I think I. And I was even just talking about some of this in therapy this morning. Um, but I think, you know, my therapist often what will come up in conversation are. Is sort of this idea around the coping mechanisms that I developed as a kid to survive and how they can be useful in some ways in some situations.
- [09:35]
B
What are. What are Some of the coping mechanisms you developed?
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A
Oh, I think my ability, I think think of it as leap. Like they're like leap pads. Like a frog would go leappad to leap pad. And the leet pads are hope. And it's like as long as you can find a leap pad of hope, it doesn't actually matter how possible it is, but you can find that tiny kernel of hope. You sort of go there.
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B
So you developed like healthy coping mechanisms.
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A
Oh, no, but that's where I was going is that it's not actually always.
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B
Healthy because a lot of it can be rooted in like delusion.
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A
Well, yeah, I don't know about delusion, but it's, I mean, maybe delusion, but I think that there's, I think it's more around how do you, how do you draw your own boundaries? How do you learn to make sure people are respecting your boundaries? If you kind of, if you can't feel your own self worth to sort of go, okay, that's enough, you know, and if there's that sense of you just don't want to face whatever the bad thing is, it's much easier to look for kernel of hope because then you're sitting in the possibility rather than sitting in.
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B
But then when the possibility doesn't.
- [10:47]
A
Yes.
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B
Present itself, where does it leave you again? You just hop onto another sometimes.
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A
And so, I mean, that's something I've really been working on.
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B
It's just kind of staying grounded and accepting that things suck right now and like sitting through it opposed to like. Yeah. Trying to find a way out.
- [11:03]
A
Absolutely.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, I think there's just that sense of really, I'd say the, the place. I don't know if this will resonate for you at all, but the place I think I've been doing the most work is on just noticing my job.
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B
Now is noticing, like noticing your own patterns.
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A
Yep, noticing. Trying to notice, you know, what age is here. Trying to notice. So I don't know, does that resonate for you?
- [11:27]
B
Absolutely. But I would say that my leaping paths were like drugs. I would just like wanted to.
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A
And it was food.
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B
Yeah, Food, drugs, sex, shopping, like anything that I could just fill the. Make myself feel better. And now with motherhood, it's like, well, at least for me, I don't allow myself to go there. So I just, sometimes I feel like I'm just raw dog in life, you know, I don't really, like, I'll do my, like online shopping at night after he goes to sleep, but I, I refuse to let him see Me in that way. I don't know if maybe I. I don't know. I don't know, maybe I should maybe try to be less robotic and just be like a real person for him, but I just don't want to harm him in any way.
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A
Right.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Has. I mean, it sounds like motherhood is really intentional for you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Has that sort of led you to grieve more the childhood you didn't have a little bit?
- [12:27]
B
Yes. Well, I definitely have. You know what? I will say it's not really grieve, it's like healing. Okay. Like I can kind of heal my childhood through making his amazing, if that makes sense. Because I view him as an extension of me. I don't know if that's healthy or not, but he's totally made him. I know. It's like we are like we share some DNA, you know, and he does spend most of his time with me. But I will say, and, And I also have a lot more compassion for my parents because I realize how hard and how grueling and how these little things are just put on earth to just push your buttons all day long. Like it's their job, like, you know, finding new buttons and they're just. It's like an all. It's like non stop. And. And I can see how you just want to say it, you know, like, I'm not doing it. You know, I can. I get it. I got it. For sure I would never do it, but.
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A
Right.
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B
I get it. You know, so I definitely. And also. And I come from a place where I have money and it's still hard. So I can only imagine my parents, how stressful that was to not have a lot of money and be in a shitty relationship and a shitty job where you're being treated like shit. And then of course it's like now you have these little things you gotta answer to. It's like, I understand.
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A
Well, I think too you were talking about generations of parents also. And I think there is something for, you know, my parents are boomers. And so they kind of got into this thing where they've gone to therapy, but they didn't grow up with therapy. And so. And certainly weren't really in therapy when I was a kid. So we see that. I think we see a really different shift than people who's, you know, like, your son will see.
- [14:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, you know, I know. And. And the thing about my dad is like, if you ask him, he'll say, I had the best childhood. And then he'll say, you want to know what my parents did to me.
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A
Right.
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B
You know, so it's like, you know, I think Rel. You know, like, he thought he was correcting all his parents, but in reality, he was making a lot of new mistakes as well. So I'm always on the lookout for that, too. Like, I'm like, wait, okay, just because I'm not doing what my parents did, am I still doing something that might be harmful? You know, And I. I will say I do veer into permissiveness and being like, it's okay, you know, And. And I do wonder, is that harmful also? Especially when you're raising a boy. And boys can grow up to be, like, weapons of mass destruction in today's day and age. So sometimes when I just want to be like, it's okay, sweetie. I love you. You're so perfect. It's okay. You know, I do have to sit and hold him accountable and not let him off the hook and get that apology. You know what I mean?
- [15:16]
A
Like, how old is he now?
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B
Four and a half. Yeah.
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A
And how. How is that working? Like, does he. Does he did. Do you feel like he's getting. When he gets that. When he does the apology that he understands?
- [15:28]
B
Yeah. And a lot of times he. The apology unprompted. Okay. And. And it's because I apologize to him when I do something messed up or if I, you know, step on his toe or, you know, I have to leave and, you know, whatever. And. And because I'm modeling that he's learning that as well. But obviously there are times when he doesn't want to be held accountable, but I still make sure that I do. And then also talking about the feelings, boys, they don't love to do that even at a young age. It is hard to get that. And so we have. We have graphs, and we have flashcards. Are you feeling this? Are you feeling that? Because I want him to know what each emotion is. Because I think men veer very quickly. Like, when they're sad, they get angry. When they're, you know, feeling insecure, they get angry. Like, everything always veers to anger. And I think it comes from a frustration of not being able to understand why they're feeling a certain way. Right. So I really. We. We work very hard on deconstructing the feel as to why and what can I do to feel better? And am I correct in feeling this way? Because not all feelings are rooted in reality. Some of them are super irrational. So we just have to, you know, just be really on top of that. And, like, I Am doing, like, a subtle programming of subtle brainwashing where, like, we play superheroes. And he's Valentino, protector of women, you know, just so that he just grows up and he's like, I don't know. I just. Just, like, have this calling to protect the women. I don't know where it comes from, but it's. It's because I'm implementing, you know, all these things in him so that he can grow up to be, like, one of the good ones.
- [17:06]
A
Well, it's. But it. I think it can work. I mean, my brother. I have a younger brother, and he. He is still that person, but he was that person from a young. You know, he would always. Whether it was with manners of standing when a lady would leave the table or come to the table or trying to do things.
- [17:26]
B
And is that because your parents modeled that?
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A
Yeah, I think my. My mom in particular, what really kind of came from my grandma, my maternal grandma. So she was very much like, manners were really important to her. And so I think that, you know, in that sense, it was. I think that's how it trickled. Trickled in and down.
- [17:50]
B
And I always worry about the fact that we don't really have a strong male pre presence in our household. I live with my. My best friends, and we kind of. We bought a house together. And how many we're in total? We're four and three cats. So it's me, Valentino, and then Richie and Ben. And Ben is, you know, he's our guy, but he's not really, like, actually, you know what? He is a strong male presence, but. But he cooks and he's loves his cats, and he's a creative, and he's gentle and he's soft spoken, and. And I love that that really is Valentino's male role model in the house. Now that I'm really thinking about it, it's like, he does have that because I worry about the fact that it's not my partner, but.
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A
Right.
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B
It doesn't have to be my partner.
- [18:40]
A
No.
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B
Wow. Revelation. Yeah. It is someone in the house. And it's like, that is. You know, I do want Valentino to see that because his dad is very macho. He's like Russian from. From Coney island. And he's very, like, golden thinking Nora now. Exactly. No, I'm literally like, I walked so Anora could run. It's very much giving that. So I do want Valentino to see that not all masculinity looks like that.
- [19:08]
A
Yeah, I. I love this idea of you guys living together. I've seen these Instagram memes that are. That talk about groups of people who will either build sort of cabins or houses near each other, all the same thing.
- [19:21]
B
It's our chosen family for sure.
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A
But it's. I. I love it too. I was actually just reading an article this morning about. They call it lat Live apart together.
- [19:31]
B
Oh, wow.
- [19:32]
A
And so that, you know, the kind of intentional committed relationship. Well, it's actually relational, so it's, it's for. It's more dyadic, but in terms of the. Your part, like, you and your partner don't live together. You're in a committed relationship and you are choosing to live ap. And then you're choosing to have the time together when you do. And so I feel that sounds very.
- [19:56]
B
Appealing to me in some ways, as.
- [19:58]
A
Long as someone's close enough to come get the spider so you don't feel.
- [20:01]
B
Alone, you know, but also close enough where they respect your boundaries and your. Because there is such a pressure on women to just kind of keep a man, you know, and clean the house and be the nanny, the nurse, the maid, the cook. Well, and the whole trad.
- [20:18]
A
Wife first coming back. Right. So. Yes.
- [20:21]
B
So, I mean, that grates my ears. Like, I can't stand it.
- [20:25]
A
Yeah, no, it's. It is, it's interesting. I. So I, you know, in preparing to talk to you like this now come up for me three times. So I'm just gonna say it. You've had so many experiences. Painful, glorious. They're all rich. They're all really rich. And there's so much to talk about there. And there's just this part of me that feels like I also want to offer to you. Do you just want to talk present time? Like, is that not talking about what happened or do you like to talk about that? Different aspects. I know it's so much a part of your story. It just, I think for me, I think about sometimes because people probably always.
- [21:07]
B
Want to go back and talk about what happened.
- [21:09]
A
And of course that contributed to who I am or how you know, where I am. I don't know that I'd be doing a podcast, but I think the thing is, is that there is a present time version of you. Right. That's not about those stories. And so I just. It just kept coming up for me of like, what feels good to you.
- [21:27]
B
I don't mind talking about the past if it, like it relates to something going on in the present, you know, otherwise it just kind of feels like, why are we going there? You know, it doesn't feel like natural or organic, and it just feels like beating a dead horse. I'm a very nostalgic kind of person. Like, I, I don't even know if it's nostalgic, but I do tend to think about the past and worry about the future. And I am trying to work more on just being present in the moment.
- [21:55]
A
Me too.
- [21:56]
B
But, you know, when you have. So when you have anxiety or when you have trauma, it's very hard to live in the present because you're just always worrying about what's going to happen. But the truth is that if you make the right decision in the present, it kind of ensures that you will have a good future or you will have the tools that, you know, will. If anything bad does happen in the future, you'll be able to deal with it. You know what I mean?
- [22:20]
A
I think that's the thing. And even sort of going back to what you were saying with parenthood, too, of just that sense of not wanting to make a mistake or, you know, instill something in him that then becomes problematic.
- [22:32]
B
I mean, if he became like a horrible man, it would be probably the greatest failure of my life. Like, it'd be. I don't. It would. I don't even know how I would deal with something like that. And that is something I worry about so much because it's like if I, you know, make this creature or rear this creature to be someone who then goes and harms women the same way I was harmed, it's like, wow, I really, really up. You know, like, it's just. I don't know how I'd be able to, like, forgive myself for that, you know.
- [23:06]
A
Do you ever think about how you'll talk him about what's happened to you?
- [23:12]
B
I mean, I, It's. It's going to have to happen. You know, I feel like the, the worst mistake parents make in raising children is like, shielding them all the time. And then you just send out a bunch of willfully ignorant people out into.
- [23:27]
A
The world, right, with a ribbon and.
- [23:28]
B
A medal and, and, and a complete false sense of confidence. It's like you kind of have to, like, these are very real things, and they're going to encounter them whether you shielded them or not. So you might as well, you know, give them some knowledge so that they can confidently tackle that situation when it arises, or so that they know how to act in a situation like that and do the right thing or, or see or, you know, recognize a red flag or, you know, just have that, that compassion, you know, Where Valentino wouldn't want to do something to somebody because mommy went through that and wouldn't want to be friends with somebody like that or would hold them accountable, hold his friend accountable because his mommy went through something like that and it hurt her. So I think I will, like, you know, it's just about intuitively gauging. If he mentions something, he's ready. If he's asking, he's ready for the answer. I hate when kids are always having to ask their parents the same question and they're like, oh, you're too young. It's like, if they're gonna go to Google and they're gonna Google and you know what's gonna happen when they Google? Yeah. Probably a porn link or something.
- [24:40]
A
Right.
- [24:40]
B
I. I read like, my God, there.
- [24:42]
A
Was a statistic I saw recently. I think this is crazy. I think it's kids as young as four are being, you know, Lord, are. Are seeing porn for the first time.
- [24:56]
B
Yeah.
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A
On the Internet.
- [24:57]
B
Absolutely. Like, that age, all the kids go on YouTube, a pop up, they're like, what's that? And then it's, you know, you just have to be so vigilant these days. I know, I know it's hard to parent, but you. You gotta at least put parental controls on if you're gonna give them the iPad.
- [25:15]
A
Right.
- [25:15]
B
Put the parental control. It takes two minutes.
- [25:18]
A
I don't have kids, but I haven't.
- [25:20]
B
Did you not just. Not. What, Was that an intentional choice or it just happened that way?
- [25:24]
A
Yeah, I think I really. I was. I joke that I kind of came out of the womb like, like in a. In a bridal veil and wanting to be pregnant and so just getting. I wanted that, you know, get married and I wanted four children and everything before 30 and definitely didn't do that.
- [25:41]
B
But do you. Do you feel like that's a failure on your part? Like, do you carry that or did you pivot and realize that life is so much more than that? Because it is. Right.
- [25:52]
A
I think that there was definitely a period of time that I carried it as a. As a failure and as a.
- [25:59]
B
And you know what I always tell girls now that I've seen both sides of the equation, you can live an equally fulfilling life. Yeah. If not more. Without children and without getting married.
- [26:11]
A
Yeah, no, absolutely.
- [26:13]
B
And you know what else? The. All the, like, old people that live in, like, old people homes, the people that get the most visitors are people that never had kids. Really? Yeah. And it makes perfect sense. Oh, that's really. Come visit you and. And the all the relationships you were able to have because, like, now that I'm a mom, I have, like, two friends. Like, you know, it's hard because you're just like your kid all the time, and not everyone wants to hang out with a baby. I've been blessed that my friends, like, we literally grew up together, so, like, there's no getting rid of me, and they have to accept Valentino, but it's really only because they're forced, you know, because it's hard. It's not that hard.
- [26:53]
A
No. I love kids and love babies, so I think my friends. I was the one who would always be like, I'll go on the errands to Target.
- [26:59]
B
Yeah.
- [26:59]
A
You know, so it's interesting because I. I froze my eggs, and I have eggs and embryos, and I haven't. I still.
- [27:06]
B
So embryo. They've been in. Okay. So you had a. Don't you got a donor?
- [27:11]
A
Yes. So it was.
- [27:12]
B
Why don't you just pull the trigger?
- [27:14]
A
Oh, now I just. Too old. So I think that. Yeah, I'm 50. I just turned 52.
- [27:20]
B
That's not too old.
- [27:21]
A
I'm not sure.
- [27:22]
B
I think people live, like, 80, 90 now.
- [27:25]
A
I don't want to be that old.
- [27:27]
B
You don't want to have kids that old? No.
- [27:28]
A
Well, I just. I don't want to live that long. I don't want to live to.
- [27:31]
B
You don't have to say you don't have a choice unless you do by then. Right.
- [27:36]
A
But by then, who knows what we'll have? Right?
- [27:38]
B
Right. Right.
- [27:39]
A
Who knows? So I just sort of. I. I very.
- [27:42]
B
I don't think you're too old. I think if you want to do it, you should do it.
- [27:45]
A
Yeah. I just don't. I think it is. I don't think it's a decision you can totally make in a vacuum when you're choosing it this intentionally. Right. So I think if, you know, I think in your case. Right. It just kind of happens. Right. It was unexpected, and so I think when it's unexpected, you're. You're making decisions from a really different place. And I think when it's intentional and. Yeah. So I'm totally okay with it. And certainly during COVID I felt really grateful to not have kids, because I think that would have been really hard.
- [28:20]
B
Yeah. I know.
- [28:22]
A
I'm curious about something because it's a total non sequitur, but if you don't mind going backwards. I heard you say something first that was really funny that you manifested a sugar daddy.
- [28:32]
B
Yeah.
- [28:34]
A
But then what? I was really Interested by is that you said you're still really good friends with him. So can you tell me, like, how does that happen and what does that look like?
- [28:44]
B
I call him a sugar daddy because he was rich and he was older and he paid for everything. But in reality, there was love there.
- [28:52]
A
Okay?
- [28:53]
B
Very much. Like, not like, let's have sex and money's on the nightstand, you know, it wasn't that at all. Like, he poured so much into me, really helped my self esteem so much. I never thought I was like that pretty or that beautiful or that anything. Yeah. And he would like, tell me that I was like a classic Italian Hollywood beauty a la Sophia Loren. And like, he was just always pouring into me and telling me how like, he, you know, dines with this person and that person and that I'm smarter than all of them. And like, he was just so amazing in that way. And he really is one of the best guys ever. Like, I really was such an awful. I mean, he was no saint either, but I was really bad. I was just awful. And. And like, just so much trauma and. And he kind of became like a weird parent. And you know how you are with your parents, you just dump on them and. And he absorbed all of that and never raised his voice, never called me out of my name, never disrespected me. Was just always so, such like the perfect gentleman, you know. And we don't talk all the time, but occasionally, like on a birthday or he'll see me. Like sometimes he'll see me in like the New York Post and he'll be like, oh, I. I saw you this morning and I always knew you could be like. He would tell me, you should be an actress. You should be an actress. And I was just like, oh, no. Like, that could never happen for me, you know, Like, I just didn't even like, like entertain that. I was like, sure, whatever. He's being nice. And so, you know, he. He definitely was one of those people that was put into my life as some sort of like, guiding guardian angel. And then when I no longer needed him, he was gone. And. And when I always was so worried about the day that he'd leave or that we wouldn't be together because I was like, how will I survive? Like, how then I survived just fine. I was ready. It needed to happen. We needed to pull the plug. I needed to stand on my own two feet and make my own money and be my own person in the world. And I did exactly that. But it was nice knowing in the back of my Mind, like, if I can't do it, I can always call and ask for help, which I did.
- [30:54]
A
Well, what's. I think what's kind of interesting is some of what you're saying is actually the role of a parent. Right. So if, you know, if something goes wrong, you know that thing. If something goes wrong, you can always.
- [31:06]
B
Come home knowing that if you fall, there'll be someone with a pillow there to catch you. And I never had that before.
- [31:12]
A
What do you think? Like, what's the story he would tell? If he were sitting in the chair, like, how would he describe what it was or what it meant to him?
- [31:20]
B
Or he would say that, you know, he was so down and out, and then I walked in the room, and it was love at first sight. And that he knew from the moment he met me that girl is gonna be something special. Like, that's exactly what he would say. He's very, very dramatic. He's very theatrical. He's, you know, very. Also hyperbolic. Everything is the best. Best, you know, and everything is the worst. And, you know, he's just very. Just really such a character. So much life, so much emotion, so much passion.
- [31:54]
A
Yeah.
- [31:55]
B
But also so gentle. And they really do not make him like that anymore. But also totally a womanizer. Okay. Totally.
- [32:04]
A
Like, you know, was he single at the time, or. No. Okay, got it, got it, got it.
- [32:11]
B
But I. I will say that I wasn't, like, the girlfriend that broke up the marriage. It was like. Like 10 before me. Yeah. So I was in a lot, actually.
- [32:18]
A
Well, rarely the.
- [32:19]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't the first. I wasn't the last. There were many more, probably even during me with him. Like, I'm. It's. You know, whatever. But the relationship wasn't really about that. You know, I didn't give a. What he was doing. Right. As long as he.
- [32:33]
A
Because I was gonna say, I'm like, I'm the eternal optimist and romantic. So it was just this, like, well, what about now? Would you guys, you know, reconnect romantically now?
- [32:43]
B
I broke his heart so bad. I wanted to go. I don't know what the hell I wanted, to be honest. But it wasn't him. Yeah, it wasn't him, unfortunately. And. And he didn't take it very well. Yeah, he was, like, really, really heartbroken. Like, he'd cry and stuff. Like, oh, I, like, can't even.
- [33:05]
A
Like.
- [33:06]
B
I know. I just. But, you know, I always say I'm his karma. I was like, well, imagine what your wife felt all those years. Yeah. Now you Know.
- [33:17]
A
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- [34:40]
B
Probably so they never slip from her hand. Could you imagine I'd lose it. Luckily, Reese has thought about that.
- [34:47]
A
Wonder what else they think about. Probably chocolate and peanut butter. I know you had that. You're sober now and you had a history with drugs. You have such a bright light now.
- [34:59]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [34:59]
A
Did you always. Do you feel like you've always had this bright light, even in darker times?
- [35:06]
B
Yes. No.
- [35:07]
A
Or something you had to reclaim? Because I lost my light. I think I lost my light from 98 and. And having to get that back.
- [35:14]
B
How did you get yours back? Was it just like time and healing and just putting space and distance in between or you had to actively do the work?
- [35:22]
A
I think it was actively doing the work. But I don't know that. I sort of like forgiveness where sometimes you're doing this work and you didn't set out to forgive someone, and then one day you realize, oh, I don't feel the bile anymore when I think about this person. Right. And so I think for me.
- [35:41]
B
When did that happen for you, that switch?
- [35:44]
A
I think it was gradual. I think it was really gradual. And then I. I did it mainly through resonance work and consciousness work and energy work and sound healing. And I think it was, since we're woo woo, we'll go woo woo. But, you know, talking about just a lot of tears in my field from all the negativity that came Right towards me. And so it was having to heal my field and then healing the field and being able to hold new energy. And so it wasn't really apparent that I had done that to a point until. Until my Vanity Fair essay. And then the world responded differently to me.
- [36:29]
B
The younger generations, they were finally ready.
- [36:32]
A
So it was the younger generations who were the ones who were like, wait, wait a minute.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah, we have unfinished business here.
- [36:39]
A
We're looking at this in the facts.
- [36:41]
B
We're looking at the fact she was absolute predatory. You were absolutely a victim in that.
- [36:46]
A
But it's, you know, but it wasn't sexual assault and it was, you know, I think it's, it's complicated. I mean it was a hundred percent an abuse of power.
- [36:53]
B
I mean, listen, you know, not this president, but any other president, he came up to me right now, right here and was like, let's go to the vet. I'm there. Like, yes sir, Mr. Press. It's like, how do you not. And I'm a 35 year old with a lot of lived experiences, so I can't even imagine a young little 20 year old. I mean, it's just. There was just know like, you are so innocent in that, babe. Like that's crazy.
- [37:19]
A
I, I don't know totally about that.
- [37:21]
B
But, but, but you were.
- [37:23]
A
I, I was and I didn't.
- [37:25]
B
I think it's like, yes, of course you had agency. You weren't some like dumb, you know. No.
- [37:29]
A
Or not even dumb. I mean it could have been a very. You know, I think that there. I just always want to be mindful in talking about these things because I think there's so many different kinds of situations with this that are mine. I might have ended up with the most trauma or the most public trauma, but there's so many that are, you know, women who are totally coerced. You know, women who. For whom it's, you know, they do this or they lose their job and they can't lose their job because they're supporting their family, you know, whatever those things are, or sexual assault. And so in those ways I just always want to be mindful, you know. And I.
- [38:04]
B
Well, of course it's every, every single situation like that is so nuanced and it has its own unique set of circumstances. But you know, just looking at the facts, it's right. Pretty undeniable. You know, I feel like what. What happened to you was just. And you know what the up thing is, it still happens today. You know, the dog piling on women. It was Amber heard a Couple years ago, then now it's Blake Lively. You know, it's. It's just like, when are we gonna, like, stop this cycle? You know?
- [38:37]
A
I think it's shifted a little inside. Yes, I know. And I think what is almost the worst aspect of it is the internalized misogyny that all women have.
- [38:51]
B
Yeah.
- [38:51]
A
From that.
- [38:52]
B
Oh.
- [38:52]
A
When I look in the comments, collateral damage.
- [38:54]
B
The. The women putting each other down the most. That's like the. The part that stings the most to me. There are times when, like, you know, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to get in the comments. And then I'm like, wait, no.
- [39:08]
A
Yeah.
- [39:08]
B
Like, I'm not even gonna do that.
- [39:10]
A
Like, I'm just not for something about yourself or another article or somebody else.
- [39:14]
B
Somebody else. Another woman. Because everybody has that. Oh, you're like, ooh, like, what Drama. You know? And then I'm like, no, this is like someone's life. We were not there. We do not have both sides of the story. And nine out of 10 times, this is probably all completely unwarran, you know, so even though it is juicy and whatever, it's. It's wrong. Yeah. Deeply.
- [39:36]
A
I. I'm really mindful about. I try to not be a nun about it. So it's like, oh, I'm gonna read these kinds of things. I'm human.
- [39:47]
B
Yeah.
- [39:47]
A
But I try to be mindful of how often I'm reading something. I already read one article on this. Maybe I don't need to read the five more that I'm now being.
- [39:55]
B
Are you talking about the Sydney Sweeney of it all?
- [39:58]
A
I'm talking about all of them.
- [40:00]
B
All the.
- [40:01]
A
Any things of them.
- [40:02]
B
Know. I know it's always something new anyway.
- [40:04]
A
Yeah, it is. And I. I do. I do think what's shifted a little and what's hard it. To know. Does that just sort of. Is it net positive or does it. Is there actually a shift? Is. I think we see a little tiny bit less in the headlines and it is more in the comments.
- [40:25]
B
Yes.
- [40:26]
A
Right.
- [40:26]
B
Totally.
- [40:27]
A
And where that's different. Okay. Okay. Doesn't. Doesn't feel different probably to the target and the person. Right. Because the.
- [40:34]
B
They're still on the receiving.
- [40:35]
A
They're on the receiving end. But what it does mean is it's like, it's a little less biased. It's a little less this headline that goes to bajillions of people, and then it's only the people who are reading the comments. So I am not trying to. I'm trying to find a lifeboat I'm trying to find my. But it's also. I think, also.
- [40:56]
B
No, but you're right. You're right. Definitely. Like, the tabloid culture has. Is.
- [41:00]
A
It's.
- [41:00]
B
It's toned down a lot. But the.
- [41:03]
A
I mean, when was the last.
- [41:03]
B
But you know what.
- [41:04]
A
What?
- [41:04]
B
The damage that it did back then, the poison that it spread.
- [41:08]
A
Oh, my God.
- [41:09]
B
Trickled down, and now. And now it's like they don't even need to do the headlines because we do it to each other. They don't even have to do it right. Because we'll do the work for them.
- [41:17]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [41:19]
B
Up. It's so up. It's up. But you know what? Like, anything else, it'll pass. And like I said before, it's like we love to tear someone down to then build them up again. And, you know, I feel like you. You're on your ascending. I feel like this is just the beginning for you, and you're going to do so much more. I do. I really do.
- [41:36]
A
That coming from your psychic side, I.
- [41:38]
B
Didn'T know it, like, is. I have a really good, like, sense of knowing. And I feel like you're definitely just beginning. For sure. For sure. And I feel like you're just such an exciting person, you know, because you do have such a unique story. And, I mean, I. And also, we grew up here. You were like this mythical creature. Like, that probably happened when I was 6 years old and I knew who you were, you know, and. Yep. You know, whatever. It's just really cool. And I feel like I. I just hope that one day you can get to a point where you can be like, you know what? I'm glad that happened, because I wouldn't have done this and that and that and this outweighs that.
- [42:18]
A
I'm not sure about that.
- [42:19]
B
I know. I'm like, here's me trying to find a life.
- [42:22]
A
You know what? I think that if it had been something where the consequences were sort of just on me and not my family or other people's families and the country, I think, had it, I could see where it's one of those things, because I've had plenty of other experiences where I've. And in fact, thank God, that's one of the great things about surviving something is then the next time something similar happens, you're like, okay, I'm not gonna freak out as much because guess what? Last time, it turned out to be the best thing that fucking happened to me. Right. I don't know if that'll happen here.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah. But I'm sure that Your family also feels that way. Like they wish it could have happened to them and not you, so they could have absorbed it.
- [43:04]
A
I. I am certain. Yeah, I know. Yeah, definitely. I think that's a parental thing for sure. So it's. It is. It's interesting, but I think. Getting light back. Yeah.
- [43:18]
B
Yeah. I mean, I could even see you with, like, a talk show on, like, real tv, you know, I mean, podcasting is great, but, like, I could see you.
- [43:26]
A
I don't know. You know what? What?
- [43:29]
B
Thank you.
- [43:29]
A
But once a week is like.
- [43:31]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [43:32]
A
This has already been more than I.
- [43:34]
B
A talk show is. Is a full. It's a lifetime, but, like, crazy.
- [43:38]
A
And I. I. You know, I love what I'm doing now. And are you. Do you consider yourself now? So your. Aside from motherhood, is it actress or actor?
- [43:49]
B
I'm. I've been doing a lot of acting, but my real, real passion is writing and story. So I am working on a new book. You heard it here.
- [43:58]
A
For your second memoir or a novel.
- [44:00]
B
Not a memoir. It's.
- [44:03]
A
Or a How to.
- [44:04]
B
Or a. It is. It's like a collection of short stories slash essays, kind of.
- [44:11]
A
I think that's the way to go.
- [44:12]
B
That's the way to go.
- [44:13]
A
I think it's the way to go. Especially when you're someone who's, you know, a big thinker because your interests are.
- [44:20]
B
So varied, and it works perfectly. It's like the perfect match for my adhd, too, so I can just jump from thing to thing to thing. And, you know, the common thread, of course, is being a woman today in the world. Yeah. You know, which is such a crazy experience.
- [44:37]
A
Well, it's just. I think the thing that is really interesting to me is you're a lot younger than me, but I feel like my parents. I mean, I guess my mom's generation is experiencing it, too, with us, but they're now, like, she's much older, but this sense of. It felt like the train was always going forward.
- [45:00]
B
Yeah.
- [45:00]
A
For a really long time. Of, like, things could go back. Exactly.
- [45:04]
B
Didn't realize things when I was just talking about that.
- [45:07]
A
Yeah. And that, I think, is what.
- [45:09]
B
Because we took it for granted.
- [45:11]
A
Yep. And that's what feels terrifying, I think, about my niece. It's like, how. How. How is she gonna. How are young women gonna do this?
- [45:19]
B
Like, as a mother, I. You know, I. When I. When I got pregnant, I wanted a girl. Like, I don't care. We all do. And I remember shopping, you know, when you have. When you're like, okay, I'm having a boy, it's like, okay, it's like, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
- [45:34]
A
It'll be handsome.
- [45:35]
B
But obviously, you know, then you have your boy and it's like, okay, I only want boys. But I will say that there are times where I'm like God, thank God I birthed the white man. Like I don't have to worry about his rights being stripped away. But that, that's a horrible, depressing thought to have and it's so defeatist. But you know, as a parent, you just obviously want to make sure your child that's like your life's purpose. You know, it's wake up in the morning, how's he doing? Go to bed at night, how's he doing? You know, so I do.
- [46:03]
A
Have you ever thought read anything as a poet? And I think he also teaches Clint Black.
- [46:08]
B
No.
- [46:08]
A
So he wrote a really beautiful poem about what you as a black man, what he needs to teach his son in growing up and that protection and it is heartbreaking. And I think there are these overlaps of race and gender where we, where it's about, it's about having to be aware. Right. And so it's.
- [46:29]
B
But also it's like how you know, when you're a child you just see everything through rose colored glasses and it's like to break a child's spirit in that way, like hey, the world is actually unfair, you know, and right and wrong doesn't really.
- [46:45]
A
Sometimes I wonder if, you know, maybe we are better off being raised without those rose colored glasses, you know that. I mean, what is that? Because I wonder sometimes about.
- [46:59]
B
But you know, when you're, you're, you know, you, you believe that like good will prevail and that, you know, and it's like no, Trump is our president. And, and yeah, that's sad. You know, it's like you want to preserve childhood as this like. But you're right, it's like we do have to kind of like I'm not.
- [47:15]
A
Sure what the right thing is. I just, I, I think you know, sort of going back to something you were saying much earlier around, you know, men and emotion and leading to anger which of course women have anger too.
- [47:27]
B
But comes it expresses differently our anger turns into sadness more than rage or.
- [47:33]
A
Or I think think self hatred.
- [47:35]
B
Yeah.
- [47:36]
A
So. But what I think about is that how much of that that happens is because people feel like they were sold a false bill of goods because we're raised in this way. Right. Of okay, it is going to be all Those things.
- [47:52]
B
No, especially millennials. I remember growing up in, the theme was like, you can do whatever you want with your life. And then you. I turned 18 in 2008 when the recession hit. And I remember just being like, wait, but, like, where is all this opportunity? Like, how. But how? Like, how do I get there? You know? And of course, I turned to sex work because all the jobs I was getting, they were, like, $7 an hour, which is insane that that's still the federal minimum wage. I know. It's. It's actually slavery, I think. And, you know, whatever. I. I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones. Like, I know a lot of people, a lot of girls I grew up with that weren't, you know, from, like, Fifth Avenue and whatever, they just threw in the towel and just didn't do anything at all. And kind of.
- [48:44]
A
Well, when you say threw in the towel, do you mean just give up?
- [48:49]
B
Become prostitutes, drug addicts? Okay. Like, just completely eject themselves from society by the system? Yeah. They just. They're just living in the shadows now, you know, and it's. That could have very well been me, too. But I did always kind of have this, like, delusional belief that I could do anything and that I would get there. Yeah.
- [49:10]
A
There's this great quote that I was so interested in, and you had one that was in your memoir. And then one that was that recently in Notes on Beauty, which I'm not. I don't know what that is, but from your memoir, it was, I'm over it. I'm reclaiming my body and rejecting the notion that I exist, exist only to be visually pleasing. And then recently, in this Notes on Beauty thing, it was, my beauty belongs to me, not to men. I only allow a select few to experience my beauty. My beauty can be terrifying. Tell me what that means to you. I hate.
- [49:45]
B
Like, I just feel like the beauty industry is so oppressive to women. And also this, like, idea that you kind of have to fit this mold, and it's like, buy this product so you can look like this, because everybody looks like this, and you want to look. Look like that, too. And I feel like I've always found beauty in destruction. I find beauty in you, in being able to rise from the ashes and, like, reclaim your life and now do this. And, you know, like that. To me, that's where the beauty is. It's in lived experience. It's in truth. It's not in masking. It's not in camouflaging. It's not in, you know, mutilating ourselves. And don't worry, I've done a fair share of mutilating myself. So I'm not like, holier than thou. Like, like, don't get plastic surgery. No, get all the surgery you want. But that's not where your beauty is. You know what I mean? Beauty is so much more than just the way you look. And that's what I want people to. Because looks all fade. You know, as cliche as that is, like, yeah, looks will fade and. And what you're going to have left is it better be good, you know, so invest in that. You know, do the work and, you know, learn and travel and enrich your life and. And fall in love. But not with men. Like with your craft, with your friends, with life, with your passions, your art. There's just so much more to life than that. Yeah.
- [51:17]
A
You were talking before about, so the sugar daddy, not sugar daddy, like seeing this thing in you. And what came up for me, part of what you were talking about reminded me that you were also one of the Safdie brothers muses. Right. For uncut gems.
- [51:35]
B
Yeah.
- [51:35]
A
And so do you think you were sugar daddy, not sugar daddy's muse? In some ways, for sure.
- [51:44]
B
For sure.
- [51:45]
A
And what was the uncut gems experience?
- [51:47]
B
Like that. I remember when I first met him, my sugar daddy, not sugar daddy. He had this painter come in who's this very, like, I don't even remember what his name was because I was like 19 and did not give a shit. And he was like this painter that like paints these very big kind of like almost like Michelangelo style paintings.
- [52:10]
A
Wow. Okay.
- [52:10]
B
And he had me come in and sit for this man so that he could paint me in the ceiling.
- [52:16]
A
Oh, my God.
- [52:18]
B
Yeah. And he.
- [52:19]
A
Are you serious?
- [52:20]
B
I swear. And. And I was just, wow. So crazy. Like I was little. Yeah, yeah. It's a lot. I always say, like, a man's love is so heavy like that. I'll weigh you the down. It's just a big weight to carry. And yeah, and I. I think I was definitely his driving force and a lot of his passion projects. And, you know, he'd always. That's the thing. He really valued my opinion and he always wanted to know what I thought was cool and my take. And I loved that. You know, I loved.
- [52:52]
A
I. I think especially when you're. You're a young woman and growing up.
- [52:57]
B
Like coming of age in the early 2000s, which was like the most oppressive.
- [53:01]
A
Or the 70s, but I think, and I think that there are a lot of women who experience this in in different ways. There's something very powerful about being validated by someone so much older.
- [53:15]
B
Yeah. Especially someone who is.
- [53:17]
A
Who values what you're saying in your opinion, and gives you time.
- [53:21]
B
I always used. Because people would always. Growing up, I was, like, hot. I was hot. I always had, like, a fat ass and big boobs, and I was, like, hot in that way. And I remember, like, it was always so disappointing when a guy would say that I was hot, but when he said that I was smart, that was like, bingo. You know, now we're having sex. You know what I mean? Like, it was just that. So much more.
- [53:43]
A
I mean, not the hot part, but I just. Thinking about that.
- [53:46]
B
You're hot, babe. You're hot. You're still really hot, too.
- [53:48]
A
Thank you. I don't know, but, you know, someone's pickup line to me, like, an amazing writer's pickup line to me was, oh, I love your writing. You have such a great voice. And I was like, okay.
- [53:58]
B
Yeah, it's. It's so we. Because we. We value that in the end, like, so much more. You know, I think it's about.
- [54:05]
A
I think it's about being seen for.
- [54:08]
B
Who we are and not what we.
- [54:09]
A
Look like or just what we look like.
- [54:11]
B
Exactly those things. Yeah. I think we're always trying to prove that we're more than, you know, just what, like, society deems us valuable for. Yeah, there's a lot more to that. And wait, what was the other part of your question?
- [54:24]
A
Well, just, I think.
- [54:25]
B
Oh, and back to the safdies. Right.
- [54:26]
A
But also now meeting you, which is different than seeing an interview with you or watching you on the screen. And I actually, before we finish, I want to talk about him. And so since I got to see it, but. But I think just this idea of kind of playing yourself in a movie. I don't know. Not many people get to do that.
- [54:49]
B
Yeah, no, it was. It's also kind of a weird situation to be in because it's like, okay, but I know who I am, but what do you perceive me as? And then I have to play that version, you know, because ultimately, I wasn't really like Julia in the movie. Also, her name wasn't supposed to be Julia. It was supposed to be Sadie, but Adam Sandler's daughter was named Sadie. And he was like, absolutely not.
- [55:14]
A
Right.
- [55:15]
B
And then we tried a bunch of different names. I had pitched Sophia. I forgot. And none of them. He was like. Then he was like, what about Julia? And I was like, okay. Like, sure, whatever. But it. But to me, it was still very much just a character, you know, But I did pick up cues of like, okay, you see me as this, and you see me like this, this, and then played those up. But ultimately, I don't. Like, that. Wasn't like. Yeah, I played myself in a movie. Like, it wasn't really okay. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [55:46]
A
So his idea of you.
- [55:48]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [55:49]
A
Interesting.
- [55:50]
B
Yeah. And obviously, there are a lot of similarities. You know, the older man, sugar daddy, not sugar daddy, and being a hustler. And, you know, that. That is for sure me. But, you know, know, we weren't like.
- [56:04]
A
That, you know, narratively similar, but not soul similar.
- [56:07]
B
Yes, yes. Yeah.
- [56:10]
A
Talk to me about him.
- [56:12]
B
I. Yeah. I am, like, so freaking excited for people to watch this movie. I had actually been manifesting that I wanted to do more of a slasher, thriller, horror kind of vibe. And when this presented itself, I was just like, look at God. I'd, like, actually been praying like, that I wanted to do something like that. The power of prayer and. Yeah. Just amazing. I feel like, thematically, it's so on point for right now. It feels like such a. It just feels so current, you know, And. And even though it is based on, you know, this fictional football league, I would say that even if you're not into sports, there's elements that you can relate to in terms of yearning and the desiring, the wanting something so bad that you would sacrifice yourself for it, and then kind of knowing when to draw the line. Like, wait, actually, this doesn't feel good.
- [57:09]
A
Right?
- [57:10]
B
You know, like.
- [57:10]
A
Well, in so many ways, we. We do that in a strange way on social media. We're sort of sacrificing our time.
- [57:18]
B
Yes.
- [57:19]
A
And our, you know, our authenticity. Sometimes.
- [57:21]
B
That's how I feel with, like, posting. People are like, you don't post anymore? And I'm like, I have nothing left to give y'. All. Okay. Like, leave me alone. Like, it's just not fun anymore. You know, it's not fun anymore. But it's true there is. Especially as women, we're constantly told that, like, our love language is, you know, acts of service, which ultimately are, like, acts of sacrifice. Yeah.
- [57:46]
A
And there's a difference, right, between emotional labor.
- [57:50]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [57:51]
A
It's. It's interesting because I. I didn't realize going in that it was gorgeous.
- [57:59]
B
I just.
- [57:59]
A
I didn't know. I've had a crazy few weeks just in terms of preparing for the show to come out, and so I was like, okay, I can do this, because I don't do Gore. So I, I did have my hands over my face really quite a bit. But the first that I didn't.
- [58:17]
B
Yeah.
- [58:17]
A
Was so, I mean, just that beautiful acting and the music. Oh, my gosh, the music.
- [58:23]
B
No, it's a work of art. Our director, Justin is, is just insanely talented. He's really an artist and a visionary. To make a movie like that, like, art is kind of crazy. It is. It's not an easy feat. And Marlon Wayans is such an incredible actor. I mean, he's, we know him from, you know, White Chicks and Scary Movie and Harold and Kumar or whatever. Like, I don't know, you know, they do all those funny movies. So to see him in a Seal. Well, he was actually in Requiem for a Dream, which I was reminded of today, and he was so good in that when he was in the jail dying of the infection and then he loses his arm. Requiem for a Dream was such an insane movie. But anyway, I feel like comedians do drama, dramatic roles so beautifully because I, I, My theory is that all comedians are just like super tortured, so they just want to make other people laugh because it makes them feel good and they just want to lighten the mood all the time. But they do have, have this darkness in them. And I love that he was able to go there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I interrupted. Yeah. I just, I love Marlon so much, and I'm so happy that he, and he even it said that he, he thought he was playing a character until he realized he was playing himself. And I was like, wow, that's really beautiful because, you know, he is such a positive, happy, go, lucky person. But you can tell that there is more behind his eyes for sure.
- [59:52]
A
And the feeling of, I mean, it's interesting to be produced by Jordan Peele and then having Justin. Is it tibbing.
- [59:59]
B
Justin Tipping.
- [60:00]
A
Yeah. To be directing. Was that. Did you feel like that there's like a patina of Jordan Peele that.
- [60:07]
B
Oh, yeah, okay. Absolutely. I love Jordan's films because he does really know how to take themes that are, you know, very, like much of the zeitgeist and then just run with it and, you know, like, get out and Nope. And yeah.
- [60:26]
A
And we were trying to figure out, okay, well, what's the, what's the bigger. Is it, you know, white supremacy and sports? Is it, you know, so.
- [60:33]
B
Well, you know, there, there's definitely there, there is a lot of these leagues are owned by white men, and the players are predominantly people of color. And that is a little interesting.
- [60:46]
A
I loved that there was the mixed race thread in it too, which I thought made it even. Even infinitely more interesting.
- [60:55]
B
Speaking of Tyreek Withers, this is just like, he's definitely going to be our next, our generations Brad Pitt. Like, he is so gorgeous.
- [61:02]
A
What do we think of him for Bond?
- [61:04]
B
He could totally bond.
- [61:07]
A
That could be interesting.
- [61:08]
B
Carmen. Yeah, I love Carmen.
- [61:12]
A
Okay, so the. The final question I ask everybody is if there's anything that you are currently working on reclaiming, and it could be, you know, a relationship. It could be a space, a thing, a. A emotion and anything.
- [61:30]
B
Gosh, that's a good question, Monica. Am I working on reclaiming anything?
- [61:40]
A
You may not be.
- [61:40]
B
I'm gonna say my time. Yeah. Even back to, like, the not posting on social media or I feel like I am to just give my time away. And I'm working on saying no more. And, like, I do have a people pleaser thing that I'm really trying to work on. And. And I just want to be way more intentional on the things I do and. And not be driven by this fear of, like. But. But I have to make money now, and I have to. You know, it's like, you can relax. There will be more opportunities down the line. Like, I just went on vacation for the first time in, like, almost two and a half years. And, you know, just being at. On the beach with my son, I was like, God, this is what it's about. I'm supposed to be working so I can do this. Like, what am I doing? You know, I just want to be a little more. I just. Just to pay. Be just a little more conscious of what I'm spending my time on, who I'm spending my time with, and just making sure that there is a good balance and that it's not all work, work, work. Because then what happens is, is I'm showing up to places I'm a complete cunt to everyone. I'm just so over it. Like, one word answers, blank stare. Like, looking at the clock.
- [62:58]
A
Well, your tank's not full.
- [62:59]
B
My tank's not full. You know, that's what my son always says. I'm running out of gas. I'm running out of gas. I'm like, you're tired. You're tired? Okay. But yeah, I do feel like I'm running out of gas. Yeah. Well, then.
- [63:13]
A
And reclaim it.
- [63:14]
B
Exactly.
- [63:16]
A
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF Media Studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin, and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker. And our senior producer is Megan Donis. For Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Swift Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez Wren and Emily Feldbrake. And executive producers are Dave Easton, Aaron o' Flaherty and Marshall Louie.