KESHA

Summary

Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky: Episode Featuring Kesha

Host: Monica Lewinsky
Guest: Kesha
Release Date: July 8, 2025
Podcast: Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky by Wondery

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Introduction

Monica Lewinsky welcomes Kesha to the episode, expressing her excitement about having such a dynamic and resilient guest. She shares her initial apprehensions but quickly feels a deep, genuine connection with Kesha, setting the tone for an authentic and heartfelt conversation.

“I just feel like I've just felt all week that this is just going to kind of be a real soul connect kind of conversation.”
— Monica Lewinsky [02:26]

Personal Connections and Shared Experiences

The conversation begins with Monica gifting Kesha a rose quartz crystal, symbolizing unconditional love and heart purification. Both hosts reveal their spiritual inclinations, creating an immediate bond.

“I love rose quartz because it's for unconditional love… Self forgiveness, acceptance, self trust and self worth.”
— Kesha [03:46]

They discuss their astrological signs, highlighting their Pisces connections and Monica’s Leo and Taurus placement, emphasizing their emotional and strong personalities.

Spirituality and Healing

Kesha delves into her spiritual journey, sharing her early interest in comparative religion and psychology. She explains how her path in pop stardom initially separated her from her spiritual pursuits but has now integrated them, aiming to create a tour that embodies a spiritual experience.

“I'm really trying to see how exactly to help, like, what's the best way to do it. But I would like to try to help some of the survivors because someone like me, I'm very lucky that I have had resources...”
— Kesha [26:37]

Monica echoes this sentiment, discussing the non-linear nature of healing and the importance of integrating various facets of oneself.

Navigating Trauma and Public Scrutiny

Both Monica and Kesha share their struggles with public judgment and trauma. Kesha recounts the challenges of being under a gag order and the emotional toll it took on her, including the misconception of her behavior during performances.

“I was truly dying inside. And it felt like... like nobody cares.”
— Kesha [40:02]

Monica relates by discussing her own encounters with the judicial system and the impact on her feminine energy.

“Did you have to reclaim your, you know, like, how do you find your way back to that feminine energy?”
— Monica Lewinsky [33:02]

Advocacy and Empowerment

Kesha emphasizes her commitment to advocacy, particularly in supporting survivors of sexual assault and abuse. She speaks passionately about using her platform to create safe spaces and empower others to embrace their true selves.

“I'm gonna try to see how I can help the survivors with great on this tour because I feel really strongly about, like, I just. It's trauma.”
— Kesha [55:02]

Monica highlights the evolving understanding of trauma and the increasing acceptance of various healing modalities.

“I've been really heartened to see how healing modalities are becoming more known faster.”
— Monica Lewinsky [56:04]

The Tits Out Tour: Embracing Freedom and Joy

Kesha introduces her upcoming "Tits Out Tour," a celebration of reclaiming freedom and embracing one's body. She shares the inspiration behind the tour, rooted in her personal healing journey and the desire to foster a community of love, safety, and joy.

“It's my life. This is my fucking body, and I'm fucking free. So we're gonna fucking party.”
— Kesha [66:21]

Monica expresses excitement about the tour, appreciating its focus on joy and community.

“It's a joy festival.”
— Monica Lewinsky [66:52]

Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes with mutual appreciation between Monica and Kesha. Kesha thanks Monica for providing a safe space to share her story, highlighting the healing power of vulnerability and authenticity.

“You provided really safe. Safe space. And I feel really safe and comfortable.”
— Kesha [68:58]

Monica acknowledges the impact of their conversation, reinforcing the podcast's mission to explore reclaiming what has been lost through honest and empowering dialogues.

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Key Takeaways

1. Integration of Spirituality and Art: Kesha illustrates how embracing spirituality can coexist with a demanding career in the music industry, fostering personal growth and authentic expression.

2. Healing Through Vulnerability: Both guests emphasize the importance of being open about their traumas, fostering connection and healing not only for themselves but also for their audiences.

3. Advocacy and Empowerment: Kesha’s commitment to supporting survivors and creating safe spaces underscores the role of celebrities in advocacy, using their platforms for positive change.

4. Embracing Authenticity: The "Tits Out Tour" symbolizes a bold declaration of self-acceptance and freedom, encouraging others to embrace their true selves without fear of judgment.

5. Evolving Understanding of Trauma: The conversation highlights the growing recognition and acceptance of various healing modalities, promoting a more compassionate and informed approach to dealing with trauma.

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Notable Quotes

• “This is my life. This is my fucking body, and I'm fucking free. So we're gonna fucking party.”
  — Kesha [66:21]

• “I'm really trying to see how exactly to help, like, what's the best way to do it.”
  — Kesha [26:37]

• “There is no done period.”
  — Monica Lewinsky [41:08]

• “If you really want to be truly free, because I got out of my. I regained the legal rights to my voice about a year ago...”
  — Kesha [18:01]

• “I'm viewing myself as a social canvas.”
  — Monica Lewinsky [16:31]

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Conclusion

This episode of Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky offers a profound and intimate exploration of Kesha’s journey through trauma, healing, and empowerment. The candid discussion not only sheds light on Kesha’s personal struggles and triumphs but also reinforces the podcast’s mission to navigate the complexities of reclaiming one's joy and freedom. Listeners are left inspired by the resilience and authenticity shared between Monica and Kesha, embodying the essence of reclaiming what has been lost through honest and transformative conversations.

Transcript

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I was so excited to sit down with the force that is the singer Kesha. When I read that Kesha was on a mission to reclaim her joy and freedom with her new single Joyride and and her first album produced under her very own label, Ke$records, I knew she'd be a perfect guest for us. While I was a little intimidated at first, talking to Ke$ha ended up being like being with an old friend. One who's extremely cool, deep, smart, vulnerable, funny and empowered. Anyway, I hope you find something in our chat to connect to and thanks so much for joining us on Reclaim.

[Kesha]

Foreign.

[Monica Lewinsky]

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[Monica Lewinsky]

Kesha welcome to Reclaiming. I'm so excited to have you here. I don't want to jinx us, but I just feel like I've just felt all week that this is just going to kind of be a real soul connect kind of conversation. So much so that I'm following my intuition on this thing and it might be weird.

[Kesha]

We'll see.

I love following an intuition.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay, well so so I always give my guests a crystal at the end of the show just as a thank you for the exchange of energy because it's no joke to show up to a podcast. Like people think, oh, you just show up and have a conversation. But it's a lot of energy. But I usually do it off camera because it feels a little performative otherwise. But I was just kept being told in my head to give you yours now.

[Kesha]

Oh, I love this.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So here's this. I'm sure you have rose quartz already.

[Kesha]

Oh, I love.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But also giving your middle name, which you'll see, you know, new splash is Rose, so.

[Kesha]

But you're so sweet. So Rose quartz. I love rose quartz because it's for unconditional love, like for everyone listening. It purifies and opens heart. It's really weird actually that you just gave me this and I'll get into that.

Okay, good.

Self forgiveness, acceptance, self trust and self worth. Mm, girl, are you a hippie witch too?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, I am.

[Kesha]

Woo woo.

[Monica Lewinsky]

To the corner.

[Kesha]

Me too. Have you ever been to Esalen?

[Monica Lewinsky]

I have not. I have not.

[Kesha]

We should go.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay.

[Kesha]

Wait. This is beautiful. I'm gonna keep this with me because. Yeah, it's weird. Not weird. Nothing in life is weird. Right?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right.

[Kesha]

Good.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I have that feeling. And in fact then the other part of it is I brought my own crystal for today and it has, it's this piece, it's Caribbean calcite. And there's this crazy story that basically the universe gave me this crystal. It was a few years ago. Sometimes after a big project for me, I worked with the same sort of non verbal sound energy consciousness quantum field healer for a long time. And I'll do a 21 day protocol with him when I need to sort of put myself back together. And this was one of those times. And usually on the first day of those, something magical happens. And so I'd gone to the beach. It's my happy place. Nature ions, right? Clears the field, the sound and movement of the ocean comes my vagus nerve, the whole thing. It was a Sunday. I went down to the shoreline, dipped my toes in and I see this like sparkling green thing and. And I thought, oh, it's probably a piece of glass or trash or something. But I went to explore and it was a gorgeous day out, so there were tons of people at the beach. And I go, and here is this crystal sitting on the sand. Yeah, sitting on the sand.

[Kesha]

Wow.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And I thought, oh, any minute someone's going to come up to me and say, oh, that's ours. We were photographing it from a distance or whatever. And here.

[Kesha]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So I just, I just wanted to. I don't know. So I I brought it today.

[Kesha]

I love that. I love that story. And I like. I feel like we have a lot to connect about. I. I feel as if people that have gone through a lot, you know, you can go in a lot of different directions, but some of us become very spiritual.

Yeah.

Almost as a. It's not a choice, it's a need.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

To survive.

[Kesha]

To survive. And the last record I put out, I have a new one coming out, but the last one I just put like, gag order. Gag order. Yeah. I did with Rick Rubin. He's so spiritual. The whole experience was so spiritual.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, my gosh. I am obsessed with Rick Rubin.

[Kesha]

Me too.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I mean, I want to hear all the stories. In fact, I actually have a really. Well, go ahead. Sorry. So your spiritual album with. That you did with Rick Rubin.

[Kesha]

Well, there's a song on there called Something to Believe in. And it's like, you never know that you need something to believe in when you know it all. But so kind of when you. When I lost touch with feeling like I knew why things were happening the way they were happening, it felt very lonely.

Yeah.

And in those moments where it felt like people don't. Couldn't understand how this feels. It's been going on for so long. I'm so privileged. So I can't really even talk about what this is like to anyone. I just felt so alone. And in that moment, I had this spiritual awakening, kind of like very intense night where I just felt like the universe or God or divine, whatever you call it, but like, whatever is greater than me. Kind of came and tapped me on the shoulder and was like, you're not alone. I know you feel really alone. And it felt like. Kind of felt like I needed that moment.

Yeah.

Because I was starting to lose faith in what I was doing here and why I was doing it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I guess sort of going a different place because the sort of woo woo of it, of that. You were sort of born into woo woo though, right. Because your mom wanted you to be a Pisces.

[Kesha]

Yeah. So my mom is a Pisces and she wanted to be a pop star, and she made amazing music, but it just never came out. So, you know, she had my brother and she had a hard relationship with his dad. And so I think she was just, like, fed up with men. So she's like, I want another baby, but I don't want to do it with a man. Like, I don't want to be dependent on a man, which obviously was born from her being hurt. So I have so much empathy for it. But so she basically asked her friends, like, will you do me a favor? I'm ovulating this month and I want a Pisces and I want a baby. And you don't need to be involved. Like, I'll take care of it, but will you basically, you know, help me out? Donate the old fashioned way? So then that's where I came from. But so my brother's a Pisces, my mom's a Pisces, I'm a Pisces, Rick Rubin's a Pisces. Wow. Yeah. What are you?

[Monica Lewinsky]

I'm Leo. I'm Leo, but I'm Taurus. Moon, Libra rising.

[Kesha]

So you're like very strong.

Yeah, Yep.

See, I'm like very emotional.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I'm double Venus. Like the Venus in. Wait, is it in Taurus? Yeah, the Venus in Taurus and Leo and then not the. My planets in there, but blah, blah, blah. But you know, Libra rising. Justice is really important to me too. Do you know you're rising and Moon?

[Kesha]

I'm triple Pisces, but I recently learned I might have Rising in Scorpio. I'm like right on the cusp there.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Kesha]

And all water.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay, that's really interesting.

[Kesha]

But the Scorpio could, like, account for like the cuntiness, honestly.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, it's so funny. So my birthday's July 23rd, and in 1973, back in the dinosaur ages when I was born, where the line was drawn that year, I was right on the cusp of Leo in cancer. And I am very much Leo. You know, I have my Leo hair. And the kind of anger certainly can be like a Leo. But then there's the sense of home and then wanting to nurture. That is very. It's very.

[Kesha]

I feel the cancer energy from you, like already out there.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, interesting.

[Kesha]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And I'm emotional and all the things, but you were actually born in a party. Is that true in la?

[Kesha]

Yeah. So my mom, I have to get to the bottom of, like, why she didn't want to just go to the hospital, but she had me at home and she had purple hair and a safety pin on her nose. And, you know, it's a long time ago, but she was like drinking a bottle of Jack Tantrums as I was born, which is just how she was coping with that. So the pain.

Yeah, yeah.

So then, so I came out and then she had an issue with her placenta, so they had to rush her to the hospital. She's fine, Everything's fine. But they took her placenta away from her. And she threw a conniption because she's such a hippie. She was like, I want my daughter to have her placenta. And they threw it away, but she threw a fit. So the nurse got it and she's like, I hid it next to the dumpster. So then she goes out post giving birth, I'm at home with her friend, and she goes and finds my placenta next to the trash, brings it home. Fast forward. I now have a necklace with my placenta in it because it's supposed to help open your, like, second sight, your intestines.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, that's interesting. Oh, I didn't know that. That's really interesting. I know in the UK they save the placenta a lot more, I think, for. I mean, I don't know that it would have been stem cell research at the time, but there's a reason all my friends in the uk, a lot of them have the placenta put away. And I think it's. And also then there was this. I have a friend who went to this French doctor who would inject other people's placenta into you. And that he did that for energy and kept him young looking. And so I haven't done that yet. Or like, salmon DNA in your face. Haven't done that.

[Kesha]

Oh, I put salmon DNA in my face.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, you did?

[Kesha]

Oh, yeah, girl.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Did you like it? Well, your skin is gorgeous.

[Kesha]

Thank you. I can thank the salmon sperm. Okay. It's like a Korean trick.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Exactly. You've talked about the astrology and have. And you've described yourself as a seeker. So, I mean, is that. Do you feel like you've been that way since you were a little kid? Okay, forever.

[Kesha]

I remember being in middle school and I would go to different churches after school. My mom was like, what the hell? And I would go to different churches and I would see people having these spiritual breakthroughs or speaking in tongues and crying and on their knees and, like, really believing in this thing. And I wanted it so badly. But I think with spirituality, it's so personal. It's between me and whatever I believe or don't believe in. Like, that's our. You know, it's a sacred relationship that everyone has. And I wanted it so bad. You know how, like, when you're single and you're like, I want a relationship so bad. I wanted it so bad. And I would go and I would cry and I'd be, like, so jealous and I.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That's so interesting.

[Kesha]

I know. And then I start. I went to Columbia University. Before I was 18, I thought was going to go to New York for school and I was going to study comparative religion, and I wanted to study comparative religion and psychology because I'm so fascinated with why do people do what we do? How do people get through the hard stuff? Where do these rules to live by come from? And, like, what makes people want to keep going? Like, what gives them faith? What gives them power? What gives them strength? So I was always obsessed with it. And then I signed a record deal and I was like, well, I guess I'm gonna have to circle back to this. But now I'm in a funny place in my life where they're starting to merge the spiritual seeking and the pop stardom. I'm really seeing how they can live together instead of be so separate. Because it used to be I would be on stage and then when I was off tour, I would go do the seeking. But now I'm really trying to incorporate it into my tour. Like, the tour. I'm putting it together right now. I want it to feel like a spiritual experience.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, the integration is so important. I think it's. And again, one of those sort of challenging things where you can't put a timeline on integration, you know, So, I mean, I do. I've had enough experiences now, both positive and negative to the higher part of me trusts that it's like, okay, you know, rejection is protection or, you know, some version of it'll reveal itself that it just wasn't the right time yet or wasn't the right opportunity or person or, you know, whatever that is. But I think that's so interesting. I went back. Do you think you might go back to school? Or did you.

[Kesha]

I would love to.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Or did you not? So did you even start at Columbia?

[Kesha]

No, I went for a summer program and then I was going to go to Barnard, which is like the sister school. Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You got a scholarship there. Right. And you're smarty pants with, like. When I was, you know, researching you for the, you know, to have this chat of just write 1500 on your essay. I mean, that's. That's impressive.

[Kesha]

I was. This is the, like, funny thing about me is that I always. I feel like people always think I'm, like, up to no good or I'm around or like, if I'm driving too fast and I get pulled over. Like, I. Even to myself, I'm like, oh, yeah, what am I doing wrong? And like, I really actually just like to, like, work and I like to live in integrity and, like, take care of the people around me. And I want to be a walking embodiment of love. Like, it's all really positive, but somehow I think it's like. I also grew up on punk rock music, so I got a little bit of the, like, fuck the man in me, you know?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. That vibe. I mean, I tried to put together a cool girl outfit for today. Oh, good few. I was, like, texting photos to my friends this morning. I'm like, does this work? Is this okay? I have to look cool so, you know, it's.

[Kesha]

You did it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay.

[Kesha]

Good job. You look amazing.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thank you. KE do. But it is the. I think all of those things of. I think of myself as a social canvas. And I wonder if some. In some way, that's what you are, too. That's part of that reflection of, you know, that there's. I think women who tend to be full of contradictions in society's eyes can end up being projected upon a lot.

[Kesha]

I am about to start trying to put a song together for Torah, but it's all projection. I'm like, projection mapping on my body, if I can figure out how to do that. But when I first came out with music and people were like, you're ugly, you're fat, you can't sing, you're not good, you're dumb. All of that. I, like, internalized so much of that.

Yeah.

And now I can kind of understand that. Although those people may think that about me, generally, it's probably a projection because I am seemingly doing a thing that feels like you would want to do it or you couldn't do it or, like. And I feel worthy enough to have that and be in this role, and how dare I? So let me humble you real quick and. But it's really just a projection of their own feelings of unworthiness when I just want to make people feel empowered to be exactly who they are and they are worthy.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right.

[Kesha]

So it's kind of like you're taking it out on the wrong source. I want you to be full of love and feel so empowered. And that's why I write these songs. I want to make you so full of joy that your energetic field is explosive.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

How did you find your way to that place?

[Kesha]

To the place I am now, Girl. I was thinking about this yesterday. Like, I am so a work in progress. I am so healing in front of the entire world.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Like, brave and beautiful.

[Kesha]

Well, I don't have it. Like, of course I would love to try to hide some of the messier parts of my life, but, like, It's a little too late for that. So now that literally the worst nightmare of what people could know about me is all out for the public to see, like, the most horrendous parts of my life.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, I. I can totally relate.

[Kesha]

Right? So now that it's all out there, I'm like, okay. I used to be living in this place of. So crippled with the anxiety of the judgments of every person that looked at me. I don't know if you have ever had experience, but where someone looks at you and they either smile or make a face like, oh my God, you poor girl. Or they make a face of like, dislike. And I'm like, I don't even know what era or thing that you're making that face about. Or maybe you're just like, have to take a. I don't know. But that became so right intense to try to evaluate what people's judgments of me were. And I recently have just decided, like, if I really want to be truly free, because I got out of my. I regained the legal rights to my voice about a year ago, and so I got this, like, contractual freedom. But if I really want to live truly free, like really embody freedom, I'm going to have to let go of a lot of other stuff too. And part of that is worrying about what people's judgments of me are. Being embarrassed about what people know about my past, being ashamed of watching people grow up with me and me making good decisions, embarrassing decisions, bad fashion choices, being funny, not being funny, falling, like, all of it. Like, I just have to love every part of the way. Because I do know that I was trying to do my best and live with integrity the whole time.

Mm, yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, it is.

[Kesha]

It's something.

[Monica Lewinsky]

It's kind of a skill really, that I wish we were taught when we were growing up about understanding, learning how to integrate the different versions of ourselves and accept them with love. Because, you know, I think these other versions can start to wreak such havoc in your life when you don't recognize that they're there. You know, just like this morning I had a kind of fucked up dream. And it was still bugging me this morning when I was drinking my coffee and I started doing my own self directed kind of art therapy a few years ago. And so I started to draw doing the thing, and I realized that I had used all primary colors in this, you know, and so it was that sense of, okay, this dream seemingly has absolutely nothing to do with when I was really little, but there's probably a connection there. You Know. And so I didn't go there yet because I was like, okay, I'm gonna pivot.

[Kesha]

Wow, that's so interesting.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, it's been really. I have a friendapist. I call her my friendapist, who's like, both a trained therapist and my friend. And we have a weird working relationship thing together. But she had encouraged me to start drawing things out. And so it's. I bought these stupid, expensive markers, and somehow that makes a big difference for me. I don't know why, but the colors are. Yeah. The col. Are gorgeous. And, you know, thick paper. And it's been really interesting just yet again, like, energy, another form of expression that for me has been really meaningful. And I think that's what's really interesting is that you go back to religion. Right. And so my background's in psychology. I didn't study too much in religion, but one of my professors did. His work was a lot on doubt and religion and sort of this idea. Idea of we have doubt for so many things, but in religion, people believe. They believe so many things they can't see or touch. Right. Or WI fi. We all just accept WI fi. I don't. I don't know how the. It works that I send a text.

[Kesha]

Right. Could somebody understands. Wait, you're giving me a song title idea? Could somebody write this down?

[Monica Lewinsky]

We're recording.

[Kesha]

Yeah.

Can you. Blind Faith. It's a good song title. Okay, go on. I'm so sorry.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, no, I love it.

[Kesha]

I.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Like, you're the first guest I've had who's come up with a title for a song during the talk.

[Kesha]

So I can't help. But you can't block it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, no, God, no, God, no. No. That's great.

[Kesha]

That means we're having an amazing conversation.

Good.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, no, it is.

[Kesha]

It's.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I just. I think all of those things that we. You know, you walk into a room, you have a feeling. You know, you meet someone. There's a feeling there. And so I think there's so many. They're the biological things of scent and this and that. But there is that other language of energy. And I.

[Kesha]

You.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And it sounds like you definitely are familiar with it. You know, that it is. It just makes life so much richer.

[Kesha]

To me, you know, I feel like it's true. Like, that's where the true freedom is. It's not in, like, when I meet somebody, I don't care what kind of car they drive. I don't care what they do for a living. I don't care. Like, you name It. I don't care. You know what I do care is if my body feels safe. If is my body in fight or flight around you, or is my body feeling safe? That's really all I care about.

Yeah.

So I hope you feel safe right now. I feel so safe. Oh, my God. I'm writing songs. That's actually part of my TED Talk in my class, is that the first step to making good art is to feel safe. And that was something I didn't experience for a really long time.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I have a period. I think it was really sort of around post impeachment in 1999, when sort of everything ended in a. I think on the media landscape, there was still a lot happening behind the scenes, but kind of in the few years after that and where I was trying to move forward, and then I leaned into being a public person and eventually moved away from all that, went to graduate school and was hoping to have this more normal life. And it was sort of in this timeframe that the universe redirected me, like, by, no, no, there's more work to do. And I went into what I call my dark decade of really sort of just like this deep, deep healing.

[Kesha]

And I just want to say I'm sorry. I like, I relate. And it's. It sucks when your life is. The time is going, and then you just don't feel good about it for a long period of time. It feels like years of your life are gone. And, like, coming to terms with that is hard. So I'm really sorry.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thank you. And me, you.

[Kesha]

Thank you. I mean, we can text later about all our hippie shit and share notes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I was thinking, like, in, you know, getting ready to talk to you, that the hows and whys of how we, you know, got into illegal whatever were obviously very different, but we were both young women. I think you were still in your 20s, right? I was in my 20s, and we got tangled up in the judicial system, and there were powerful men who were involved. And that's a. That's a combination. It's a real combination.

[Kesha]

I can recognize that both the music business, the ways, especially when I started. And I can only imagine politics. It's like, it's run by the men. It's a boys club, and they make you feel lucky to get in and, like, you just gotta be cool with whatever, at least on my end. And. And I'm, like, now taking my experience and trying to pay it forward. I'm starting an app. Oh. To like, connect young artists so they can communicate and, like, Just have some community, but also more knowledge.

Right.

It sometimes can be very isolating. You don't know who to ask, or you don't know what you're signing. You don't know who you're signing it with. And so I'm trying to create a place of community for younger artists because of my experience. Like, just sitting back and being like, well, that was fucked up.

Yeah.

Like, I'm gonna do nothing about it. Doesn't quite feel right.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No.

[Kesha]

No.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And you've done so much advocacy work in supporting survivors of sexual assault and abuse.

[Kesha]

Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

What has that meant to you?

[Kesha]

Well, I feel as if it's, you know, never intended as a young girl going into the music business. Like, I never intended for that to be a part of my legacy. But the universe and God, and it throws you things that supposedly you're strong enough to handle and get through. And thank God I did. So I feel like what we live through, if there's a way I can use my voice and my celebrity and. Which I've always found celebrity to be so silly. Like, I grew up, I literally was a punk rocker. Like, I was like, this is so silly. It's so silly. But now it almost feels like, oh, but maybe there's a reason. Is because I can bring awareness and attention and quite possibly change to help people feel safer. Because big things that are important to me. Justice, integrity, honesty, safety, protection for those who need protecting. My queer fans know that I'm like, mama bear.

Yeah.

Like, very strongly. And people that are enduring abuse, like, I feel very, very, very strongly about doing my absolute most to help these people, animals. I'm, like, very into, like, animal rights and animal protection. I just feel this. You kind of started the conversation with it, but a strong sense of justice. And I'm not saying I know everything or I've done everything perfectly in my life. I'm not saying that. But I do know when I see something that hits me in the gut as something that's, like, not right. And so in those spaces where I'm seeing it, I'm trying to help how I can with the silly thing, me being a celebrity, which I still find quite silly. But at least now I have, like, I feel like I have the purpose finally. Like, the. Like, the first couple years, I was like, this is so funny. God. Like, this is so silly. Like, I'm putting on three tights and a wig and, like, latex, and, like, it's all just so goofy. But now I kind of feel like it's all coming together right.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You know.

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[Kesha]

I played Coachella last week.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, okay. I'm not a Coachella girl.

[Kesha]

You could probably tell. It's like it's a. But no, it's a commitment.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Kesha]

And outfits.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Kesha]

Like heat stroke.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Someone does all the things for me. Maybe I'd go for a day, but.

[Kesha]

Otherwise, no, it's like it's a lot to totally fair. Massively respect that decision. But I went to go play a song with A.G. cook, which was awesome. And I was so excited because the same night Gaga was playing and you know, I know Gaga. I love Gaga. I'm trying to think I've seen her at different things, but I've never gone to like a Gaga show and been in the pit. And I was in the pit at the Gaga show and I was like, wow, I feel so a part of. And it's a beautiful thing, but I'm usually the one on the stage, right?

Yeah.

You know, I've been doing this for a long time. I grind and I tour and I'm usually the one that's up there doing the thing and I try to go see shows when I can, but I've just been like working my ass off a lot recently. I'm gonna be honest with you.

Yeah.

So I'll see stuff online. It didn't hit. It does not hit the same to be in the pit with other Fans of Gaga, and it had nothing to do with me. I just got to be a part of a community where we all had the same interest in, like, loving this woman. That is so loving. Like, that was amazing. It made me realize, like, I need to go to, like, a show a week.

Yeah.

I need to go to more shows.

Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, in that moment, I. I need to have idols, too, you know? Like, I want to be a super fan of somebody else.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. That's great. I love that. I really love that. I was thinking about with our chat that there's this. I don't know if you felt it this way, but there's such a strange thing about the legal system. There's something so ancient about it and patriarchal, if I said that.

[Kesha]

Right.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Patriarchal.

[Kesha]

Patriarchal. Patriarchal. Just to be honest.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Y' all know what I mean?

[Kesha]

Run by men.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And even the legal system. Right. So for such a long time, it was only white men who were allowed to sit on a jury. Right. Then it was only men for a long time who could sit on a jury. In fact, there's, like, a little city in or town in Florida where women still couldn't sit on the jury as late as the 1970s.

[Kesha]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But you think about that precedent all gets set by what happens in these courtrooms and these decisions. And so everything that runs in there, I just. It was not something I understood or could sense at the time, but in hindsight and through all the healing work, I realized that it was attacking my feminine energy, you know?

[Kesha]

And so, yes, I do know.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. And that was just such a. I think that was just such a strange kind of experience. And I think I. I don't know if you felt you had to reclaim your, you know, like, how do you find your way back to that feminine energy? And did you feel that way?

[Kesha]

Hundred percent.

Yeah.

I've been working a lot with what is the divine feminine? Divine masculine. We both like or we hold both. And, like, what does that mean? Especially growing up without a father, it's been like, the masculine's been a shit show in terms of my previous partners. Like, it's just been like, I'm just shooting in the dark, you know, because there was no father to kind of, like, guide what the divine masculine is. And then the divine feminine just got the shit beat out of it. And so it's almost like you have. I felt like I have to be so strong and so tough, and I need to not be so fragile and weak, and I just need to take It. And then it just. But really those beautiful, soft, delicate, fragile sides. It's like what makes a butterfly beautiful. It's what the feminine is supposed to dance in. This magical creativity and freedom. And to just shut that down for so long, it was kind of like a hard place to live in because I'm actually quite feminine. But not if I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe. Shit gets weird because I'm like. I don't know how to be. I'm actually quite a feminine, soft, loving person. But I've had to like, shut this shit down for so long.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But it sounds like from what you're saying is, you know that you're like your heart chakra at least is sort.

[Kesha]

Of like in real time. This is like the past. Shoot. I'm talking about the past two weeks. But I feel it. It feels like someone is ripping muscle tissue apart on top of my heart.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I always felt. Do you know that Wilco song I'm Trying to Break youk Heart?

[Kesha]

I think I do.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Kesha]

You might have to sing it to me.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, I am not gonna sing in front of an amazing singer. Although I did used to sing when I was much younger. I sang Somewhere over the Rainbow sing. But not yet. But I think that, like, you know, my interpretation of the song was sort of this, like, trying to break your heart open, you know, not just break your heart. And so, you know. Well, I'm probably wrong. Cause I almost always get lyrics wrong. I remember the title of the song wrong. I thought, you know, I thought Little Red Corvette was Come on and Pay the Rent for a really Long Time.

[Kesha]

Also, you know, Great lyrics though. That can be your own version.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Exactly.

[Kesha]

My.

[Monica Lewinsky]

My next career as a songwriter is, you know. But it's. I guess there's a sense of. You had a moment where you were declared free.

[Kesha]

That was a weird one. Okay, let me tell you how fucking weird that was.

Yeah.

There is like, nothing in my life has ever been so weird. So weird, so surreal. Like, it starts to make you. Well, I'm not gonna speak for anybody else because I can only speak for me. But like, to get nearly perfect scores on an sat.

Yeah.

To be shooting for Ivy League schools. Than to deny that and pivot to something. Literally got my GED instead of graduating International Baccalaureate. Like, really. I pride myself and how smart I am, even though majority of the world thinks I'm not. It's something I'm actually quite proud of. As you should be. Yeah. So getting my GED and committing to the career I Now very fortunately have succeeded in, you know, it was like a pivot. But I was very lucky and excited to, you know, I signed this deal when I was 18. So as like a legal adult, I haven't owned my voice.

Right.

And it's the only thing I do. I quit right. High school to do the thing.

Yeah.

The one thing I could do, I don't own the Right.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You couldn't. You couldn't drink, you couldn't rent a car, but you could sign a music.

[Kesha]

Contract of my voice. The recordings of my voice did not legally belong to me in the universe in perpetuity. I didn't really understand what that meant for, you know, and then I did, you know, I didn't understand. And then I did. Yeah, like to be then delivering music to someone that you're in a litigation with and they're in control of the promotion, of the budgets and like, of all of it. Like of the release, everything for years, for 10 years. But the only way I get out of the deal is if I delivered the music. So it's like you're like. It got very weird. Like, in my mind, it just felt like the biggest head fucking of all time. Like, I'm doing the thing I love to do. I'm one of the best in the world at doing it. I have all these amazing fans. They want me to win. I'm doing it, but it's just like. It was just such a head. It felt like it was like. I don't even know how to describe it still. It still perplexes me because it kind of makes no sense how the legal system could just like watch this be happening and be like, oh, yeah, that's fine. Like there is. I think my heart got so closed off because I felt like people are just like watching this happen. And, you know, my fans cared, but, like, it didn't feel humane.

Yeah.

Like, it felt inhumane. And then in the middle of it all, it's like, well, go on stage and smile and sing TikTok. And I would because I want my fans, right, to have a beautiful place to connect with each other. But like, I was like dying. I was truly dying inside. And it felt like. And I know it's not true, but at the time it felt like nobody cares. And that was hard. And it went a long time, which is all by design. And I get that. But there's gonna be. My heart is probably gonna be ripping open for a very long time.

Yeah.

Like, it's gonna be micro tears to ever get back to where I Was.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I think one of the hardest things I've had to accept in my healing journey is that there is. There is no done period.

[Kesha]

Shit. Are you sure I'm not just gonna be fixed? Just kidding.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah. No, but it's.

[Kesha]

But I want it so bad.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Me, too. I mean, the number of times my poor therapist, she's a trauma psychiatrist, and the number of times I'm like, here, we're here again. You know, and she'll gently and generously, you know, steer me back to remind me and make me look at, okay, how are things different? But I think what happens is I think we heal in stages, you know? And so I think that the thing I've had to accept is there might be an. I've ended in this stage. It's like grief, right? Like, you think you've gotten past a stage and you sort of trick yourself into thinking that's it. Oh, I'm over that. And the reality is there'll be another layer there if you're a seeker, you know? And so, you know, look, I have a friend in my life who, you know, I don't know how he processes things, but I don't think he processes very much. You know, he's.

[Kesha]

I'm so jealous.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I don't know.

[Kesha]

I triple Pisces. Oh, my God. I process every thing that has ever happened.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But it's just, you know, I mean, he has, like, amazing gifts and different things, and I'm. I'm sure there are different ways, but it. It's. You just. You watch those things and it's. It is. I think I was, like, joking in my conversation with the producers before we're doing this interview about this. Like, there's no circling a date on a calendar of, like, oh, that's the day I healed. You know, things release and a lot releases. Right. Like, especially with all the, you know, the different modalities that are out there now. I mean, EMDR and somatic therapy and tapping and energy work and all the things. Right. You know, and I'm sure there's. I haven't even gone the whole plant medicine route. I don't know if you have or.

[Kesha]

I've done a little of that. And I will be honest. It's very helpful.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I am, like, contrary to my entire public image, I'm actually quite terrified of substances. Like, I had my whiskey moment in the 20s for sure, but, like, anything else is, like, pretty scary to me. Like, I. I was really scared, but it showed me. Even if for just a couple of Hours, you kind of get brought back home to who you are. And that reminder, like, without the trauma, without the anxiety on top, without the overworking, the perfectionism, blah, blah, blah. Without all that for like three hours, you're like, oh, my God, you're still there. Like, I can. And so that's what I'm working towards is that girl, like, I'm getting back to her and I feel that.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah, like, I can really feel that.

[Kesha]

You know, but life is traumatizing, and I don't think the traumatizing parts of life are about to, like, slow down. I mean, look around.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I was just gonna say I don't.

[Kesha]

Think the next four years. No, I know, but you've sort of.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Mentioned this a couple times of TikTok comes out and you have this Persona or scene as like a kind of wild child, bubblegum princess, party girl, that Persona. And is that. Was that a part of you?

[Kesha]

Oh, for sure.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Okay.

[Kesha]

Oh, yeah. Like, don't get me wrong, I grew up in Nashville, didn't really find my clique. Like, there was. At the school I went to, there was a lot of kind of racism and homophobia. And I was like, I don't with any of these people. And so I was always kind of like a loner. And I, like, went to prom with the only guy who was out in the school. And I was like, we got each other. But it was just very, like, it didn't feel like those are my people, you know, like, accepting, open hearted. So I came to LA and I met a couple of punk rockers and I was like, oh, my God, these are my people. And so we had a great time and we would paint our faces and I would wear the booty shorts, and we would go to the Army Navy store and chop up shit. And we would go to the Goodwill and like, the whole thing. And it was the first time I was a part of, like, a group of people that I felt like I could just be myself because I always just felt like I was a little weird, just a little different, a little strange. I was just really creative. And I'm also just like, very playful. And I just like, didn't. I don't know. So I found my people and we would go out and we would, like, absolutely be wild as hell. But I think that was. It's interesting when you're an artist and you're a songwriter, you can write one song and that, like, defines you for so long. And that is just. I didn't realize that with my first album. And I love TikTok. And I love that first album. Like, these are my babies, you know? But I will say, to be put into a particular box was, like, challenging. I didn't feel like, oh, people aren't, like, seeing me, like, for real seeing me.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Or seeing all facets of you.

[Kesha]

Yeah. But, you know, I'm also very lucky that that hit. And I think I tapped into a part of people's brains that they needed. It's like, it was a recession. I was giving them, like, unadulterated joy and silliness and goofiness and it. And we're having fun, and I don't care what anybody thinks and whatever. And I do stand by. That's a really important thing to feel.

Yeah.

And if I'm, like, the conduit for people to feel like they can just do whatever it is and wear whatever and just be whatever and just be genuine like. Like that. I love that because we need that. So I'm lucky. But I did, like, it was hard for me. I remember I tore my ACL onstage. Oh, yeah. It was brutal. In, like, song three or something. I was playing a festival in Dubai, and I tore my acl and I fucking got up and I played guitar and I sang, and I finished the fucking show.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Are you serious? Yes.

[Kesha]

Because I'm a bad bitch. But I wake up the next day, and I'm like, wow. I am such a fucking monster badass. Wow.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Wow.

[Kesha]

And I wake up, and there's an article on TMZ saying I was drunk at the show.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kesha]

And I. Wow. Literally. Abso fucking lutely. Never have one drink before a show ever. Well, I did one time. The first time I played Lollapaloos in 2009. And after that, never, like, literally, I did that one time, and I was like, okay, I'm never doing that again. I'm never drinking before a show. So, like, things like that have hurt me and that people think that, like, I don't know, that hurt my feelings.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I'm sorry for what you've had to go through.

[Kesha]

Thank you. And, like, would we both be sitting here had we not gone through those things? Probably not.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No.

[Kesha]

And it has been made us into the people that we are. And you seem like a badass. I know I'm a badass. So, like, that's why I have to trust in something spiritual and something bigger than. Because it has led me into an era of my life that I'm really excited about, actually. And. And it is hard. It's really hard. And I cope in a lot of, like, I cope with humor. I cope with pretending like I'm fine, but, like, in real time, healing in front of the entire world. And it feels so vulnerable. But also, I'm hoping that somebody, anybody out there watching me, like, show up and be honest and looking cunty and, like, having fun, you know, on tour, like, who's gone through something really hard. I hope that that can help inspire, because that's actually, like, the greatest gift and I think is why I do what I do.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That I can tell you 100% for sure that there will be people who will see themselves, see a part of their own story, no matter how different their own story is in your story, and draw strength from your strength and, you know, putting it out there for sure.

[Kesha]

Same to you.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, it's. I don't know. So it's such a weird. I hope so. You know, it's.

[Kesha]

Oh, my gosh. I bet if you look in the comments of. There will be tons of people.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No.

[Kesha]

No comments. No, you shouldn't read it, but no comments.

[Monica Lewinsky]

But it's interesting. I was thinking about. I wrote a piece in 2018 for Vanity Fair about. I titled it Emerging from the House of Gaslight. And for me, it was just. I think this had more to do with the me too transition that was happening. And looking back at my own experiences through a different lens and realizing that I had not realizing then, because I knew it when it was happening. But when the world starts telling you different stories of your own experience, you start to believe it. And that difficult way of really holding on to what you know is true. And I. I just was wondering if you had that experience or what that was like for you.

[Kesha]

Every day, all day, for 10 years, every time I would have a second alone, I couldn't sleep. Okay. I would just sit and think about, like, oh, my God. Make sure that you don't forget this. Make sure you don't forget that. When you're at trial, write down every traumatizing thing. You know, journals on journals on journals. In the shower, I would just cry and spiral down and, like, go through. Because all these traumatizing things that happen. The hard part, with, like, a traumatic event, it's like someone from the outside could be like, oh, that happened a long time ago. Mm. You're like. But the way that has rippled into every corner of my life makes me have to trace it all the way back to the traumatic event because it's touching every fucking inch.

Yeah.

Of my mind and everything that I.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Do and it's in your body, and.

[Kesha]

It'S in every inch of your body, a hundred percent. It's in the way that you walk. It's in the way you talk, it's in the way you dress. It's in who you surround yourself with. In. It's, it's in everything. And so absolutely, I had to trace things always back down to the traumatizing events, which is not a place I wanted to spend time in. But these traumatizing events, when they're touching every corner of your life, you have to be like, but wait, wait, wait. Oh. And then it takes you back to the trauma. So, yeah, I lived in reliving the traumas for totally the past 10 years. And I'm. I'm like, transitioning into living in the present because I'm not preparing for a trial.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right.

[Kesha]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That a lot of energy freed up.

[Kesha]

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I, I one thought that is interesting. You were saying you tore your ACL performing TikTok. They write the next day that you were drunk. Performing drunk. Which also, P.S. that would be okay. Like, that would be okay.

[Kesha]

But I just wasn't.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Right. And so. But if it's, you know, especially if it's being said in a pejorative way, then it's, it's whatever. But what's so interesting is, I think, is that you're performing TikTok, and then in, I think it was 2023. Right. You took a line out of the song. Right. In a form of activism.

[Kesha]

Absolutely. So TikTok, the song used to say, wake up in the morning feeling like P. Diddy. And remember, I was on tour. I was doing the gag order tour, and I was like, I'm changing it tonight. I don't even remember where I was. It was like Omaha or something. I forget where it was. And I was like, we're changing the line. Everyone's like, you're insane. It's your biggest song. You're gonna change the opening line of your biggest song. I'm like, a hundred percent. I am. As I go on tour, I'm trying to see, like, how exactly to help, like, what's the best way to do it. But I would like to try to help some of the survivors because someone like me, I'm very lucky that I have had resources and I've had money, quite frankly, to get the therapy and do the plant medicine and do.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And the time.

[Kesha]

That's it. Oh, yeah. But, like, I just have. I've been, like, really proactive and very. I'm very privileged to have had the resources to help deal with what I've gone through. And I know there are a lot of people that do not have the resources that I had to deal with what I went through. So I'm going to try to see how I can help the survivors with great on this tour because I feel really strongly about, like, I just. It's trauma. It's. It's not a joke. Yeah. It's not a fucking joke. It's not like just fragile people. It's. It ruins your life.

Yeah.

And it, like, hurts like my heart to just like, know all this is going on.

Yeah.

And the power is just protecting these people.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I think too, that there's. I mean, I've been really heartened to.

[Kesha]

See.

[Monica Lewinsky]

How I feel like healing modalities are. Are becoming more known faster.

[Kesha]

Totally.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Like, just even, you know, I think about the person who talked to me about the vagus nerve. The first time I heard that was probably maybe during the pandemic. Yeah. And now you see it, like everywhere, which is great.

[Kesha]

I just kind of started learning about that.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So it's. I mean, the same woman who told me about that was also the same woman who taught me about transgenerational trauma in 2020.

[Kesha]

Oh, amazing.

[Monica Lewinsky]

And so maybe it was even a little earlier, but it just is, it's interesting because I think we're. I think of it, it's like we're entering this age of what I think of as modern trauma, that we are confronting trauma in a way that, that we haven't before. And I think the, the language is getting there for people and the understanding of the impact and the kind of butterfly wing impact that it has. And my hope is, and it sounds like this is your hope too, is that we get to a place in society where we're helping people curb it faster and faster so it doesn't bleed into everything. Into everything. It's like, have you done emdr?

[Kesha]

I have.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So I don't understand. Why don't we have EMDR as part of the military? Like, why is it not like you come back from a day of having to do horrible things and just like, you go take a shower, you might do an EMDR session. I, I feel like our vets would come back so much healthier, you know, and so it's just. But I think we're moving towards that.

[Kesha]

And it's awareness first, I believe.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Exactly. So that's what you're. So when you're, you know, when you are healing out loud in the way that you're Talking about, you know, that's what you're helping to do, you know.

[Kesha]

Yeah.

It's like. It's messy. I'm not doing everything perfectly.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, none of us do. None of us do.

[Kesha]

I am hoping it's the doing.

[Monica Lewinsky]

That's all that matters, is you're doing. It doesn't matter how much, how little, how right, how wrong. The doing.

[Kesha]

And you're trying.

Yeah.

Your best. But I do. I hope that for any. Anyone who survived something doesn't even have to be traumatic, like, something difficult for feeling stressed if you can't sleep, if you're having anxiety. Like, I do feel like we have to help each other.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Which sort of. I want to move into the joy that you have been reclaiming. And I want to. I know part of sort of all of that, too, was, as we said, going full circle back to. Back to Rick Rubin.

[Kesha]

Hell, yeah. The angel himself. Rick was a big turning point for me. When I met Rick Rubin, I, like, I have so much love for him. So I had my, like, sordid history and, like, the Darth Vaders of the music business, and. And I was just, like, really trying my best, but really feeling, like, kind of like I was telling you, a little hung out to dry, like. And then he took a meeting with me, and I was like, no.

Yeah.

I was like, are you sure? And then he. Then we, like, we're talking about, like, being Pisces and touched on some spirituality, and I started talking about vintage lamps. I love a vintage lamp. But then. Yeah, then he decided, like, he wanted to do a record together. And I was just. It was really interesting because working with him showed me how a producer is supposed to behave, and it showed me how a man is supposed to be. Like, what a man. What a guy. Wow. And, you know, I don't know who my dad is, so it was like, he was kind of the first in that. It was like, an energetic of, like, whoa, that's like, what a man is supposed to behave like. It was really beautiful, and it just felt so safe. I felt so, like, energetically and emotionally held to completely fall apart. Because previous to that, I had made a record that I love. There's bangers on bangers on it. But it was me, like, trying to be what I thought the fans wanted me to be, and also me trying to, like, be like. But I'm gonna manifest me being happier than I actually am. And I just wasn't, like, really letting the authenticity of how devastated I was come through my music because I didn't Want to be that devastated. Right, sure.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, it's a coping mechanism.

[Kesha]

Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You know, you sort of have to park how difficult things actually are until you're in a place where it's no longer coming at you. So that. Then you can sort of go, okay, now we can. Now we can look at the landscape.

[Kesha]

I didn't want to be a bummer. That's. The whole thing is like, the whole. I'm fun. Ask anybody. I'm very fun.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I'm boring. So, you know, we'll make a great team, ke$ha.

[Kesha]

But, like, I am fucking fun. That is true. But so. And I think that's, like, you know, I trace back. That's why my fans love me, is because I'm fun. It's because I'm fun. And so I made this album. I was like. I was really trying to be as fun as I could be in a time where I was like. Like, just not allowing myself to be like, I'm actually quite depressed and this is quite up. And then it was. You want to hear a trippy thing? Yeah, this is a trip.

Okay.

Because that album was so. It was so surreal.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Is this gag order?

[Kesha]

Yeah, gag order. That's my favorite album I've ever made. Oh, my God. Hands down, like.

Yeah.

So proud of myself. Met Rick. He's an. I literally feel like he was, like. Entered my life in a time where I really needed it. I needed somebody to believe in me, and I needed somebody who could, like, turn it into art. And he did that. And it really. It was so healing for me on so many levels because that, like, didn't chart well. That then led to the fact that my option didn't get picked up. And the phone call, that's like, on December 6th, phone call. Ring, ring. In three months, you're gonna be free. And it was so surreal because I'm, like, sitting in my backyard I sit in every day, and I'm, like, walking out there the same as every day. Being owned and tied up and all this. And then I go outside and I get a phone call. Two minutes later, I'm free. Scene is the same. Yeah, but, like, every thing changed. Everything. I don't. It's just. It was a trip.

Yeah.

But so, like, it was weird that this quote unquote, which I don't look at it as a failure. I have loved that record from the moment.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Well, I'm gonna second that. So thank you.

[Kesha]

I.

[Monica Lewinsky]

You know.

[Kesha]

But, like, you know.

Yeah.

I've got the judgments of others.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Those other things, they are Those metrics are meaningful.

[Kesha]

Yeah. It's nice, of course, to have a number one, but really, you know, it was disappointing. I want the whole world to listen to that album because it's so, like, spiritual and magical and surreal and weird and crazy and intense. But, like, if they don't want to, that's fine too, right? I'm so proud of this piece of art.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

As you should be. And now. Okay, now you are about to embark on the Tits out tour. I am so excited to say that.

[Kesha]

Yes.

[Monica Lewinsky]

So tell me, like, clearly a name, Tits Out Tour has a story behind it.

[Kesha]

Yes. Okay. So I'll take you on the ride.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Yeah.

[Kesha]

So I get this call. You are free now because of the album that I made that I'm so proud. Rick Rubin. Yes. Okay. Angels are entering the building. They're entering the chat. Things are looking up, you know, like, okay, we're picking up steam. Then I go and I do artist in residence in Big Sur. Oh. And I'm there for a couple of weeks. There's a butterfly migration. I'm meditating. I'm soaking in hot hot springs. I am romping through the wilderness. I am butt naked in the redwoods. It's amazing. And I'm like, wow. And so my friend James is like, do you want to take pictures? And he's amazing. And he's feeding me minerals and vitamins. And I'm like, oh, my God, things are so looking up, right? Like, I can finally have an orgasm again. That's another story. But I couldn't have an orgasm for forever because I was so stressed out. So, okay, look at that. Things are working. Then he's like, do you want to play with an accordion? And I'm like, I 100% fucking do. And so I play with his accordion and we take these hot naked pictures with an accordion. And I come back to LA after my trip and I go in with my producer and I'm like, do you know what I need right now? He's like, what do you need? And I'm like, I need an accordion. And that turned into Joyride, which is the first song I put out. Yeah. And has now, like, kind of set the tone for the tour I want to go on, which is just in the midst of chaos and bullshit and trauma. The most powerful and political thing we can do is to try to love ourselves and love one another. And I also look at the Tits out tour. It's. This is my body. It's been shamed by the public for I don't know how many Years from every angle, every inch. It's my fucking body, and I'm gonna have my tits out like. Like you. I love my tits and I love my body, if you're listening. Like, I've gotten to that point. Like, that's the freedom. I love my body. You tried to make me hate it. I love it. You tried to take my joy. You tried to take my life, my time.

[Monica Lewinsky]

No, your orgasms.

[Kesha]

My orgasms is the part I have the real problem with. But they're back in full swing, so we're good. But. So this is a celebration of being alive, even if it's. It's hard as shit and it can be miserable. Absolutely. At times. But this is my life. This is my fucking body, and I'm fucking free. So we're gonna fucking party.

Yeah.

That's what tit sounds about.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Bring the joy. It's a joy festival.

[Kesha]

Yes. And I want it to be so loving. I want people to come in with such an open heart, like, good vibes. Wear what you want. Be who you are. I love you. We love you. Community, safety, fun, dancing, healing. All the good shit.

Yeah.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, that's amazing because I think, like.

[Kesha]

Really, if you think of it like darkness. What. How do you fix the darkness? Little pockets of light. Little pockets of light. And maybe if the light grows, it can turn into a big pocket of light. And, like, that is the visualization I'm thinking about this tour. I want to go from city to city and just spark a little bit of love.

I love it.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I normally end the chats with a question about what people are working on reclaiming now, but I think this entire conversation feels like it has been. You are so in a reclaiming place, all of these things. I mean, if there is something specific that you think you want, I just feel like you've.

[Kesha]

I do. I'm. I am reclaiming freedom and, like, freedom in every way, not just. I'm not just talking about, yeah, my voice, it's a big one. But I'm talking about to anything and everything that takes me away from myself. Freedom from the past, from the trauma, from the Twitter voices telling me I'm ugly. Like, from all the shit I've been carrying my entire life. The shit that just sticks with you, sticks on you. From all the people or climbing, all the things. I'm cleaning house. And I want to experience real and true freedom. And I think I want to say thank you to you for having me. Oh, my gosh.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thank you for coming and trusting me. And.

[Kesha]

Well, I. You. You provided really safe. Safe space. And I feel really safe and comfortable. So I want to say thank you. And I feel like when someone is a safe.

Yeah.

Person. Interviewer, they, like, should know that it's appreciated that they're safe.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thank you.

[Kesha]

Because as a survivor of.

Yeah.

Things I'm sure you know, but, like, the freedom to talk about what I can talk about. I appreciate you allowing me to feel safe while doing that. Right. It's really huge. It's healing.

Yeah.

And so every single day is healing a little something. So I want. My intention is reclaiming freedom.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Oh, Kesha, this has been so beautiful. Thank you.

[Kesha]

Thank you to you too.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Thank you. Thank you for coming and bringing your full self. Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF Media studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffen. Nick Ryan. Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez Wren and Emily Feldbrake. And executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin o' Flaherty, and Marshall Louie.