Transcript

Monica Lewinsky (0:00)

Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. I think being fired is one of the worst things that we fear. And so that sense of once the worst thing has happened and you're still standing, that you, you know, I mean, I feel that about my own experience, you then take that forward of, okay, the shitty things can happen and I can weather them. Yes. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Walden University. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working adults like you get the knowledge and skills to build the future you want and make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, well, this is it. Head to waldenu. Edu and take that first step. Laura and Christina, welcome to Reclaiming. Thank you so much. I am so fired up to talk about all the cool girls get fired. I'm sure no one else has said that to you yet.

Laura Brown (1:21)

Thank you for adding to our brand.

Christina Binkley (1:23)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (1:24)

So Laura, you and I met at. I think it was about 10 years ago, actually.

Laura Brown (1:29)

Easily, easily.

Monica Lewinsky (1:30)

Yeah. And it was at Cafe Carlisle. And what I couldn't remember is if we were watching Ellen coming perform or if it was Debbie Harry, if we'd all gone to see Debbie Harry.

Laura Brown (1:42)

I think it was Debbie Harry because we're all on the same table with our old boss. Glenda Bailey was there too.

Monica Lewinsky (1:46)

Oh, you know Glenda?

Laura Brown (1:47)

Yeah, we used to work for her. So we were at the same table and we just started going click, click, click, click, click, click.

Monica Lewinsky (1:52)

I know.

Laura Brown (1:53)

And that was. I mean. Yeah, it's gotta be almost even over a decade.

Monica Lewinsky (1:58)

Yeah. And then I was thinking about too, that you, you know, when at InStyle, you've been a big part of my reclaiming story the last 10 years, kind of.

Laura Brown (2:07)

It's been my pleasure.

Summary

Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky

Episode: Laura Brown & Kristina O'Neill
Release Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Monica Lewinsky
Guests: Laura Brown & Christina Binkley

Episode Overview

This lively and heartfelt episode of Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky delves into the experience of losing a job—specifically, the experience of being fired. Monica is joined by Laura Brown, former editor-in-chief of InStyle, and Christina Binkley, former editor at The Wall Street Journal Magazine, the co-authors of "All the Cool Girls Get Fired." Together, the trio unpacks the shame, stigma, and practical fallout of being publicly fired, offering reassurance, laughs, and tangible advice. They explore personal stories, cultural shifts in the meaning of success, and how reclaiming agency—often in community with others—can turn loss into transformation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin Story: Friendships and the Fashion World

Monica, Laura, and Christina’s First Meetings
- Monica recalls meeting Laura about ten years prior at a celebrity-filled event, immediately clicking as friends (01:24).
- Laura and Christina narrate their iconic first meeting at the Marc Jacobs Fashion Show on September 10, 2001—one day before 9/11—a formative moment for their friendship and careers (04:27–07:01).
  - Notable moment: Laura, fresh from Sydney, recalls, “I was just like… not even drunk, just so, like... excited by New York and meeting Christina, and Christina’s first impression was I talked a lot and she was judging me. It’s still the same 24 years later.” (06:16)

Highs and Lows: Career Ascents and Impacts of Being Fired

Working to the Top—and Out the Door
- Both Laura and Christina recount their ascent from “the trenches” of fashion publishing to editor-in-chief roles at major magazines, and the different but equally abrupt ways they were let go (08:00–15:40).
  - Laura’s story includes being fired via a 20-minute warning Zoom by HR, before rallying her stunned team (08:00–12:00).
    - Laura: “Everything you’ve achieved is yours. Don’t let this take it away from you. Don’t give these people power over you.” (10:50)
  - Christina’s experience involved being summoned to the HR floor and immediately understanding her fate—“I said, I’ll be right back. I’m gonna go get fired.” (15:53)

The Shame and Stigma of Being Fired—And How to Overcome It

Reframing Self-Worth After Job Loss
- All three discuss the common, misplaced sense of shame after being fired—especially for women—and the prevailing myth that good work alone prevents dismissal (16:15–18:44).
  - Laura: “99.9% of the time, it has nothing to do with you. We are subject to billionaires playing checkers… Your company borrows you. They don’t own you.”
  - Monica: Candidly reflects on her own firing from the White House: “It was still that feeling of, you’re not good enough to be here… that shame, you’re not wanted here.” (19:45)
- Laura emphasizes the importance of claiming your own achievements and not internalizing corporate decisions (13:32).
  - Quote: “Something being taken away from you doesn’t actually mean it’s not yours.” (12:41)

Turning Loss into Opportunity: Social Media, the Book, and Building Community

From Instagram Post to Book Deal
- Laura and Christina recall how a simple Instagram post—“All the cool girls get fired”—garnered an outpouring of stories and support that inspired their book (21:35–22:05).
  - Christina: “The combo of so many women responding to just using the word ‘fired’ in a post, with so much practical info I wish I had—how is there not a resource or book that just says what to do?” (23:14)
The Book as Handbook and Hug
- The duo prioritize both practical guidance—navigating COBRA, lawyers, and unemployment—and emotional reassurance. (24:35)
  - Christina: “It’s a handbook and a hug… The last thing you want to hear when you’re in it is ‘Oh, this will be the best thing that ever happened to you.’” (25:07)

The “Scarlet F” and Reclaiming Confidence Publicly

Living with the “Scarlet F”
- Both women discuss the feeling of being marked by public dismissals and the surprising comfort in discovering others aren’t as focused on your setbacks as you are (25:37–26:30).
  - Christina: “I felt like walking in the room, I was literally wearing a sweater with an F on it. And then… no one even cared.” (26:30)
- Laura’s husband, Brandon, offers a metaphor:
  - Quote: “You’ve been unconsciously throwing out all these seeds your whole career... After all these years, you look around and there’s an orchard that’s grown for you.” (28:26)

Success Reimagined: High-Profile Stories and Cultural Lessons

Famous Women, Same Feelings
- The book features stories from Oprah, Katie Couric, Lisa Kudrow, Jamie Lee Curtis, Tarana Burke, Carol Burnett, and more—demonstrating that no one is immune from being fired, and the emotional journey is universal. (30:57–34:25)
  - Carol Burnett’s legendary reclaiming: Fired as a teenager from a theater usher job on Hollywood Blvd, her Walk of Fame star ended up at that very theater (32:19–33:46).
Identity, Work, and the Loss of Agency
- The group digs into the loss of identity that comes with job loss, especially when so much of self-worth is tied to work. (34:34–39:03)
  - Monica: “That feeling of… you start to wonder who you are and do you have value.”
- Laura encourages examining what truly makes you happy—“math for your dreams”—using any pause afforded by unemployment as a time for self-inquiry. (37:08–39:03)

Humor, Practicality, and Moving Forward

The Power of Gallows Humor and Community
- Humor is framed as vital solidarity—“Humor is arm in arm.” (45:28)
- The importance of community support, friendship, and mutual aid comes up repeatedly as a crucial buffer in hard times (55:27–56:52).
  - Christina: “The power of friendship to move you through—there were dark days, but having Laura as that resource changed everything.” (55:27)

Gender, Culture, and the New Narrative of Success

Why Women's Stories Matter
- The group highlights the lack of female “firing and comeback” stories in culture, compared to familiar male narratives like Steve Jobs or Michael Bloomberg (48:26–49:46).
  - Christina: “We think culturally we lack those stories… society doesn’t tell your daughter, ‘Look, she was fired, and now look at her.’ As Oprah says, ‘The setback is a setup.’” (49:46)
- Workplace structures are still male-centric, and women’s career paths have been longer, harder, and often less rewarding for similar roles (50:22–51:54).

AI, Economic Shifts, and the Future of Work

Adapting to Change
- The conversation transitions to the ongoing impact of AI and job displacement, emphasizing that the book’s message will only become more important as the nature of work continues to be disrupted (51:54–54:13).
  - Story of a laid-off coder who discovers joy in making board games amidst precarious employment—a metaphor for keeping “the pilot light of a dream” alive even in tough times.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Laura Brown (on job loss):
“Everything you’ve achieved is yours. Don’t let this take it away from you. Don’t give these people power over you.” [10:50]
Christina Binkley (on being fired):
“I said, I’ll be right back. I’m gonna go get fired. And their faces all fell…” [15:53]
Monica Lewinsky (on stigma):
“It was still that feeling of, ‘You’re not good enough to be here.’…that shame, you’re not wanted here.” [19:45]
Laura Brown (on metaphor):
“After all these years, you look around and there’s an orchard that’s grown for you and has grown because of your abilities and relationships…” [28:26]
Oprah, as cited by Christina:
“The setback is a setup.” [49:46]
Carol Burnett’s reclaiming:
Fired as an usher, later purposely put her Hollywood star in front of that very theater. [33:21–33:46]
Laura Brown:
“If I hadn’t been fired from the White House, I wouldn’t have ended up at the Pentagon and met Linda Tripp.” — her response that inspired Laura & Christina’s book project. [21:35–21:47]

Timestamps for Segments

00:00–04:00: Opening, friendships, funny early memories
04:27–07:01: Laura & Christina meeting at Marc Jacobs on 9/10/01
08:00–15:40: Career climbs, dramatic firings, team leadership in crisis
16:15–19:45: Shame after firing, reframing the narrative
21:35–23:14: Social media post goes viral, beginning of their book
24:35–25:37: Book as “handbook and a hug,” responding to stigma
25:37–28:26: The “Scarlet F,” public perception vs. self-perception
28:26–32:17: Community support, orchard metaphor, career reinforcement
32:17–34:28: Famous women’s stories of resilience, Carol Burnett anecdote
34:34–39:03: Identity, loss, agency, “math for your dreams”
45:28–46:56: The vital role of humor and not lingering in past job wounds
48:26–51:54: Gender, differences in firings, cultural narratives
51:54–54:13: AI, economic change, and adaptability
55:18–56:52: The irreplaceable value of friendship and network
59:01–61:48: Letting go, reclaiming, and shifting from “happened to you” to “happened for you”
62:31–63:04: Wrapping thoughts on resilience, rejection, and community

Takeaways and Actionable Insights

You are not your job.
Being fired—especially in today’s volatile landscape—almost never reflects personal failure. Your value is not pegged to your employer’s choices.
Shame is pervasive but unhelpful.
Don't carry the emotional burden of being dismissed—a business’s restructuring, botched leadership, and billionaires “playing checkers” are not your fault.
Community is everything.
Put your hand up and ask for support. “Find a fired friend.” The book itself is intended as that friend, part handbook, part hug.
Practical advice helps.
The book is packed with concrete steps—from how to negotiate severance to dealing with insurance, as well as emotional triage.
Humor is solidarity.
Laughing together at the absurdity and pain is vital to healing.
Redefine success.
Build your “orchard” over time—success is personal, nonlinear, and often happens outside traditional systems.
Share your story.
The more women talk openly about being fired and bouncing back, the more power they take from the stigma and pass it along as resilience.

Final Reflections: Reclaiming Something More

Monica’s closing question (“What are you working on reclaiming?”) leads Laura and Christina to reflect:

Letting go of ritualized obligations and fear of missing out.
Reclaiming fulfillment, pride, and agency—“lemons to lemonade.” (59:31–61:24)
Challenging the culture to move from seeing firing as failure to a moment of redirection—“changing it from this happened to you, to this happened for you.” (61:24–61:35)

Episode Tone:
Candid, warm, sometimes irreverent and very funny—full of lived-in wisdom, empathy, and an acute understanding of what it means to start over.

For anyone who's ever lost a job, felt stuck, or is navigating the shame of a career setback, this episode—and Laura and Christina’s book—offer humor, practical help, and the assurance that you’re not alone.