Lizzo

Summary

Podcast Summary: Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky – Lizzo (March 24, 2026)

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Monica Lewinsky sits down with Grammy-winning artist and cultural figure Lizzo for an honest, humorous, and wide-ranging conversation about self-acceptance, public scrutiny, body positivity, spirituality, and reclaiming joy. Together, they draw on personal stories and discuss the process of reclaiming one’s public and private narrative after trauma or major life change, staying grounded in fame, and the daily work of maintaining self-love and authenticity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reclaiming Voice & Persona in the Public Sphere

• The Shift from Person to Persona

  • Lizzo talks about how becoming famous means losing some freedom of expression:

    “Once I became Lizzo, it was like…the world was actually defining me, not me anymore. And that definition can get changed, and you could be at home sipping tea while the whole world is changing the definition of who you are.” (04:32)

  • Monica shares her own experience of being both included and excluded from public events, and how fame warps other people’s perception.

• The Importance of Anchors

  • Both guests discuss the necessity of family and old friends for staying grounded:

    “You need somebody who’s known you since you were an awkward ass kid, remind you that you’re still my brother.” – Lizzo (05:35)

2. Body Image, Public Scrutiny, and Self-Acceptance

• The Trauma of Public Mockery

  • Monica shares a painful anecdote about being publicly caricatured at the height of her scandal:

    “There was this horrible caricature of me and a full page cartoon eating a hot dog…And I sobbed for hours.” (07:46)

• Evolving Notions of Body Positivity

  • Lizzo explores how standards have shifted and how she became both symbol and spokesperson for change:

    “I had to be undeniable, like undeniably talented, undeniably beautiful…Because this was all it took for them to wanna deny me…They would deny me at the door based off my body alone.” (10:03)

  • She reflects on how people sometimes tie their own empowerment to her body size, and the need to give herself room for change:

    “Your body is going to change and you should embrace that change…to be like, I’m not allowed to change is kind of against the point.” (11:45)

3. The Duality of Public and Private Selves

• Confidence, Sweetness, and Media Projection
  • Monica shares how Lizzo's public persona projects confidence but in person, “your soul is so sweet.” (14:15)
  • Lizzo discusses the disconnect between how she’s perceived (“badass,” “diva”) and her true self:

    “I am, like, just a sweet, nice, slightly kind of shy, quirky, funny girl. And I have no clue how the world actually views me until I have conversations like this.” (15:13)

4. The Challenge of Speaking Out

• Evolving Bravery

  • Monica and Lizzo examine what counts as ‘bravery’ in today’s social media environment.
  • Lizzo notes:

    “Speaking out in today’s culture…is it always brave to just speak out on everything? …Sometimes it’s braver to, like, protect your heart.” (17:19, 17:48)

• Learning Restraint and Modulation

  • Lizzo describes being “in the classroom of Protect Your Heart 101," learning to choose when to speak out and when to hold back, not from fear but as an act of honoring oneself. (18:03, 20:46)

5. Joy, Music, and Purpose

• Music as Usefulness and Catharsis

  • Lizzo debuts a snippet of her new single “Don’t Make Me Love You,” emphasizing that she writes “useful music” for moments of self-empowerment:

    “I make useful music. I don’t want to make a song that you can’t use to get through your day…this song could be applied to romance…friendship…a job that’s not appreciating you…choose yourself.” (02:46)

• “Throwing Ass” 101 and Owning Cultural Origins

  • In a humorous and spirited segment, Lizzo gives Monica a crash course on the origins and levels of twerking:

    “Throwing ass is a level of twerking…all bets are off. The ass could be going up and down…the ass could be clapping…” (24:09)

    • She expresses pride for giving twerking and “throwing ass” greater cultural context, referencing her TED Talk.

6. Spirituality, Channeling, and Creativity

• Lizzo's Spiritual Background and Practices

  • Raised Pentecostal (COGIC), Lizzo discusses how her spiritual upbringing shapes her worldview, blending Christian roots with her current embrace of “light” and collective consciousness.

    “Science is just explaining spirituality, and spirituality is the manifestation of science.” (30:06)

  • Daily meditation and vibrational awareness are central to her well-being and artistry.

• Channeling and Flow in Songwriting

  • Lizzo describes how creativity happens best when she lets the message “channel” through her, with craft polishing the initial inspiration:

    “The message is always bigger than me.” (32:50)

• The Role of Vibration

  • Both discuss the very real, scientific basis for concepts like “raising your vibration” and the impact of habits and environments on mood, creativity, and life satisfaction. (33:36 – 34:43)

7. Overcoming Hardship, Reclaiming Life

• Being Homeless and Rising Again

  • Lizzo recounts losing her father, experiencing homelessness, and finding her artistic footing in Minneapolis.

    “I was sleeping out of that car. I was homeless for like a year of my life…And I made a really just random ass decision to move to Minneapolis…changed the course of my life.” (51:19 – 52:26)

• Musical Education and Children’s Book

  • Lizzo shares a tender origin story about learning flute and announces her upcoming children’s book Little Sasha: Lil Lizzo Meets Sasha Flute. (43:43 – 44:54)

• On Surviving Depression and Suicidal Thoughts

  • Lizzo responds to Monica’s heartfelt query about difficult times:

    “Even though I’m like a famous person…it isn’t just unique to me. Everybody has gone through something that was deeply hurtful…the storm can be a long time…But my hope is that you could put on one of my songs…make it an umbrella to kind of march through the storm.” (63:16)

• Reclaiming Joy

  • When asked what she’s currently working on reclaiming:

    “I am reclaiming my joy…one of my forms of activism is joy, and my music represents joy, and I kind of lost my joy for a while, and I am in a period of reclaiming that every single day, and it is blissful.” (67:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Once I became Lizzo, it was like…the world was actually defining me, not me anymore.” — Lizzo (04:32)
• “Your body is going to change and you should embrace that change.” — Lizzo (11:45)
• “You need somebody who’s known you since you were an awkward ass kid, remind you that you’re still my [brother/sibling].” — Lizzo (05:35)
• “Speaking out in today’s culture…Is it always brave to just speak out?...Sometimes it’s braver to, like, protect your heart.” — Lizzo (17:19, 17:48)
• “I make useful music…I don’t wanna make a song that you can’t use to get through your day…choose yourself.” — Lizzo (02:46)
• “Throwing ass is a level of twerking…all bets are off.” — Lizzo (24:09)
• “Science is just explaining spirituality, and spirituality is the manifestation of science.” — Lizzo (30:06)
• “The message is always bigger than me.” — Lizzo (32:50)
• “Everybody has gone through something that was deeply hurtful…the storm can be three years…But my hope is that…my songs…make it an umbrella to kind of march through the storm.” — Lizzo (63:16)
• “I am reclaiming my joy…my music represents joy, and I kind of lost my joy for a while, and I am in a period of reclaiming that every single day.” — Lizzo (67:16)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:23: Lizzo sings a preview of her new single, “Don’t Make Me Love You”
• 04:32 – 06:41: Discussion about losing control over your public narrative and the importance of old friends/family for grounding.
• 07:46 – 08:42: Monica describes traumatic public mockery; transition to body image in media.
• 10:03 – 12:45: Lizzo on changing body positivity and her impact on representation.
• 17:19 – 21:28: On bravery, restraint, and protecting oneself as a public figure.
• 24:09 – 24:52: Lizzo’s breakdown of “throwing ass” and twerking.
• 26:24 – 29:34: Lizzo’s spiritual upbringing and beliefs.
• 32:50 – 34:43: Lizzo’s artistic process: channeling and flow states.
• 51:19 – 52:26: Lizzo’s period of homelessness and moving to Minneapolis.
• 63:16 – 65:24: Surviving depression, the power of music to heal.
• 67:16: Lizzo declares she is reclaiming her joy.

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Tone & Style

The episode is candid, vulnerable, and laced with Lizzo’s signature humor and Monica’s compassionate curiosity. Both women are reflective, conversational, and open to emotional depth as well as lightness and laughter.

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Summary Takeaway

In this episode, Lizzo and Monica exemplify the messy beauty of reclaiming one’s voice, body, spirituality, and joy after hardship and public judgment. They remind listeners it’s possible to rewrite your narrative, keep growing in self-acceptance, and that both music and community have the power to sustain us through life’s storms.

Transcript

[A]

I just stepped into the classroom of, like, Protect yout Heart 101. And in the beginning of my career, I was able to kind of just say whatever I wanted, you know? But I think as you become larger than yourself, you become a Persona. Yeah. And it means something to people. And I think you can't just say everything you feel all the time. It's new for me because I'm such a TMI kind of girl, I'll tell you. I have a wedgie, you know?

[B]

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[C]

I'm just gonna welcome you, Liz, though. We finally did it.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I'm so thrilled that you are here on Reclaiming. Welcome.

[A]

Oh, I'm so happy to reclaim.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I know that you have a new single, right?

[A]

I do. Hopefully by the time it's come on.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I do have a new song. It's called Don't Make Me Love youe. And can you give us a little,

[C]

like, a line or are you allowed? You don't. If you can't, that's okay.

[A]

No, I'm a diva. And you know what? All the divas of the day, they used to sing on the mic. So I'm gonna sing on a mic. These divas, we need a diva.

[C]

Yes, we do.

[A]

But I'm just trying to think of the best part. Don't make me love you don't make my heart beat out of my chest don't make me want you if you just want something else don't you bullshit me, baby if this ain't it Just tell me tonight don't make me love

[C]

you

[A]

if you're just gonna change your mind don't waste my time Whoa.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Of course, girl.

[C]

I have chills.

[A]

Oh, thank you. I just learned how to sing yesterday.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. The song is powerful to me because I needed it, and I think so many people are going to need it. I make useful music. I don't wanna make a song that you can't use to get through your day or use to go out with Your friends or use to get out of a bad relationship or a toxic situation. And this song could be applied to romance. It could be applied to friendship. It can be applied to a job that's not appreciating you. It could be applied to social media. It can be applied to any. And it's just like, yeah, choose yourself.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, hey, I'm gonna give you one more opportunity. Cause, hello. Yeah, but if you don't want this, I'm out. Because my time is more valuable than your indecisiveness.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We were talking about before the cameras rolled, your position in the culture. And I'm curious as to where you feel like. I know I'm interviewing.

[C]

That's okay. It's a conversation.

[A]

Where do you feel like you fit in as a public figure?

[C]

I really don't ever know because I've had these experiences where I've walked into rooms and felt equal with everybody who's in there. Of a high level of public recognition. And I've been asked not to attend things, so I've been uninvited from things. So definitely very wide range. Strange. Yeah, it's really. So. It is a very strange place. And I know you've had. Which we'll get to for sure. You know, that experience of kind of becoming bigger than yourself to other people.

[A]

It's bizarre. Cause it's bizarre because at a certain point, there's really nothing you can do about it or do to control it. It's just like once I became Lizzo, it was like I was. The world was actually defining me, not me anymore. You know? And that definition can get changed, and you could be at home sipping tea while the whole world is changing the definition of who you are. And you're like, wait, when this happened. Yeah, well, it's.

[C]

It's. I don't know if you found this, but. But I think for me, it was the kind of anchors in my life, like my family and my close friends, who helped keep me grounded as to who I really am and not start to buy into and feed into. Because it's really hard when it's loud. It's really hard to hold on to who, you know, you are. I think for me, that was my experience.

[A]

Yeah. And to be honest, since I was young, I mean, I'm a kid who got teased and, you know, kind of picked on in school. So I had a mentality of like, oh, I believe what you call me for a while, you know, where it kind of. It stains you a little bit. Yeah, it's like, oh, band nerd. Well, I guess I am a band nerd. You know what I mean? Like, you're not pretty, nobody likes you, you're a fat ass. Like these kinds of things stick with me and I start to believe it and I carried that into adulthood. And you start to kind of believe the things people say about you. You know, I have a friend, my best friend since fourth grade around me and she keeps me grounded because she'll just be like, you have not changed. You are the same, the same person. And I think that that is so deeply healing and necessary for people especially who are put sector and become famous or whatever. Like you need somebody who's known you since you were an awkward ass kid, remind you that you're still my brother.

[C]

Does that for me.

[A]

Yeah. It humbles you.

[C]

Yeah. He's like, that's not happening here. So. Yeah, no, it is, it is. But those people are such a godsend. There was like an area I wanted to talk to you about which you could let me know if you feel comfortable or not because I've had this experience recently and just as I was preparing for us to chat, it all crossed over, which is, I don't know if you've seen There's a new Ryan Murphy has this JFK junior Carolyn Bessette love story. And what I get reminded of every time I sort of see an ad for it is this moment for me in 98 when he had had George magazine, which I had loved and thought was amaz. And this is now in the middle of the scandal and there was this horrible caricature of me and a full page cartoon eating a hot dog, you know, just like the whole thing.

[D]

And I sobbed for hours the first

[C]

time I saw it. And the way that like just the way that people talked about me physically and I know you've gone through different physical phases. You've had a body positivity movement. You yourself have your own personal relationship with your body that gets to be and change whatever it is whenever you want. And I just like, I don't know, it felt like this crossover and I didn't know if you wanted to talk about that at all of like what those experiences have been like for you. I mean it was so painful for me to. You were saying earlier about being bullied and like people saying these things about you and then that becomes like this undercurrent of a, like a record almost playing inside you. And I think for me there was so much about that at the time.

[A]

It is interesting, I'll say First, the way that we talk about bodies in the media and the standard of what a thin body or a larger body is has changed. So dramat. Especially since you're.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When that was happening almost 30 years ago.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes I'm actually like, deeply offended by how the media talked about Yalls bodies or. Or talked about Jessica Simpson's mom jeans and by the way, which are the only jeans that I wear. And I don't think this new generation understands how intense and how strict and harsh society is and was on women's bodies, especially bodies that by today's standards people would say present as thin or smaller and wouldn't put in the same category. And I think that's when I came out, people were like, wait a minute, we didn't know they could get this big.

[C]

Well, I think you've been a big part of the. I mean, do you feel that way? I feel like you've been a big part of the conversation that has helped change that.

[A]

You know, I had to be undeniable, like undeniably talented, undeniably beautiful, undeniably likable, undeniably myself. Because this is. Was all it took for them to wanna deny me. They would deny me at the door based off my body alone. So everything else had to be like, let me in. You know, I had been a big girl all through my teens, all through my 20s. I had not heard anything new. By the time I was famous, I've heard it all. So you really couldn't get me on calling me fat or there was jokes that I thought were kind of funny sometimes. Like, you know, I used to show my ass a lot on the Internet. And so. Somebody posted one of my like, little naughty pictures and was like, it's been a long ass day. I do got a long booty. But you didn't say anything about me that's untrue. I love my long booty. You know, I love my long booty enough to show you my long booty. And I think that that empowered so many people while I was that size that I think. I think when my body changed, they think that they can't be. Or there were some people who were like, am I not allowed to be empowered anymore? Did you not love yourself? Actually, when the truth is I really love myself to be able to do this. Like, there are people whose bodies changed or get smaller because they're going. They have health issues or they're depressed or something like that. Mine was not the case. Mine came from changing certain habits in my life. And so I can enjoy being in my body and physically. And I think that. That you can only achieve that by loving yourself. You can only achieve that through body positivity. And I think the people who love me and who know me and know my music and know my heart understand my message of body positivity and that your body is going to change and you should embrace that change. Me embracing my body from five years ago and being like, I'm not allowed to change is kind of against the point because you're going to get older, you're going to have a baby, your boobies are going to change your booty, you know? And it's like, I need to be okay with how I look or at least be trying to be okay with it every single day. Because it's. Every single day you change. I wake up and I'm like, ugh, I'm not feeling it today, you know? Or some days I wake up, I'm like, oh, my goodness. And it's like, you have to keep up with that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what body positivity is.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Do you want children?

[C]

You just said body change children. But if that feels too personal, that's.

[A]

Yeah. I've always said my albums were my babies.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

You know, I was like a creative project. Creative project is you are. There is this seed. There is growth. You are energetically. And you birth that fucker.

[A]

Yes. And then you have to show the world your baby. Like, it's Simba. And then people are like, I don't like this one.

[C]

Yeah, you've got an ugly baby. Right?

[A]

Wait, don't call my baby ugly. So it's deeply personal.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I got a lot of kids. Lizzle bangers, coconut oil. Cause I love you special.

[C]

We can leave it right there. I think where we met the first time was at a weekend thing that was in the fall, this last fall. I think that was the first time we met. And I had. It was amazing because to get to hear you sing in an intimate setting and to then see you sing with, like, RZA and Jon Batiste and Nils Lofgren and some others, to, like, see all of you on stage was extraordinary. And I had this moment that was really interesting because I remember when we sort of met and kind of had a connecting moment, and my first thought was, your soul is so sweet.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

It is so sweet and like. And not that, you know, come across as a bitch. I mean, in the bad way. I mean, you're a good bitch, you know, But I think that.

[A]

Like, that bitch.

[C]

Yeah, that woman and that bitch. I think it was. I think there's so much confidence and so badass and so strong that comes across publicly. And I know that's all there, but it was just like, oh, sweet.

[A]

Yeah. This is fascinating to me because I think that there is a huge disconnect with how I'm perceived in the world and how I really am in real life. Like, I am, like, just a sweet, nice, slightly kind of shy, quirky, funny girl. And I have no clue how the world actually views me until I have conversations like this.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Because I'm mostly around people I know, you know, and they'll be like, oh, yeah, it's just Melissa or just Lizzo or whatever.

[C]

For me, it's like a confidence that

[D]

comes across and a badassness, but it's

[A]

like, sweet versus confident sometimes.

[C]

It can be both.

[A]

It can be. Yeah. I don't think we equate that in media, in pop culture, like, when you're confident, you're, like, tough as nails and smoking a cigarette and stomping it out.

[C]

Olivia Newton John at the end of Greece.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Not the beginning.

[A]

Exactly. Which I always think that I'm always oscillating between Olivia Newton John and Grease.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

From the beginning. Tell me more. All the way to whatever that thing is called. Exactly.

[C]

Tell me about it, stud.

[A]

Tell me about it, stud. Yeah, I do feel like sometimes I go back and forth between those things, but it's very natural. Yeah. I'm not that way. To be, like, I have to psych myself into being a diva. I have to. It's really just like. That's just part of being a human and having a personality, you know, which I don't think we're allowed to have that much.

[C]

Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's. I think what can become complicated about being a public person is that you are both what you expose to people and how people take that in. And then you are also this, like, projection, or you're projected upon how people receive those things and what that means to them. Right. And what they want someone to be, you know? So I feel that way sometimes about. Like, people will say something to me about being brave, and I am brave in some ways. There are a lot of ways I'm not brave. There are a lot of ways I don't. I wish I felt brave enough to stand up and say something publicly or stand up for someone or do something, and I don't. I don't feel brave enough.

[A]

Is that bravery anymore? Or is that Kind of like, it depends on, like, what it actually can get done.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean these days?

[C]

Wait, say more on that. I'm not sure. I totally.

[A]

So, like, speaking out in today's culture, in social media and the way that things are received, is it always brave to just speak out on everything or speak out on things that you feel passionate about? You know, because of the way it's received or the way it's used? Will it be useful? And will it even land the way you think it'll land?

[C]

Right, right. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

No, no, that's true. That's true.

[A]

Sometimes it's braver to, like, protect your heart.

[C]

Yes. Well, and. And that's. That's really important.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is that something you had to learn by becoming a public person, or did you learn that when you were younger?

[A]

Oh, I'm, like, in my first lesson right now. This is my first. Like, I just stepped into the classroom of, like, protect your heart 101. And I think it's because I'm an extremely outspoken person. Naturally, I have a lot of opinions on things and feelings, strong feelings about things. And I think that in the beginning of my career, I was able to kind of just say whatever I wanted, you know? But I think as you become more and more, you become larger than yourself.

[C]

You become a Persona.

[A]

Yeah. And it means something to people. And I think you can't just say everything you feel all the time, you know? So it's new for me because I'm such a TMI kind of girl. Like, I'll tell you, I have a wedgie, you know, But I don't know how that's gonna land. I don't know how that's gonna make somebody feel. So I'm in. Like, I'm learning. I don't wanna call it restraint, because I don't ever wanna lock myself up or be controlled. But it's more of just like choosing, you know, making a choice.

[C]

I think for me, the word that I had to start using or thinking about was modulating, like, really sort of that. Because there was. For me, there was a feeling of. In that that I think. I don't know if that'll land for you or not. But that was just sort of one of the ways that I felt like, okay, I can be present as myself, but there's also this kind of open spigot that means some of me can pull back too. Like that water can pull back. Right. That Monica Ness. I don't know. Does that resonate at all?

[A]

Or I give like my entire being to the world, you know. And that was like something that I had signed up for and was okay. You know, at the beginning of my career I was like, I'm going to give you the good times, the bad times, the tears, the joy, the, you know, the way I feel about my body, the way I feel about, like these songs, the lyrics, how visceral and honest they can be. I was cool with it, with sharing everything. And I do think that I've earned to keep some things to myself and keep some things for myself and to. It's not just protecting myself, but it's just. It's an. I'm honoring myself now.

[C]

Good.

[A]

Which is really nice.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, everybody don't got to get everything all the time.

[C]

Yeah. I had an incident a few years ago of like pre pandemic where I had like pre. There was like a pre agreement about this Q and A thing I was doing with this speech. And it became very clear to me, like early on they were not going to keep this agreement. And I got up and I walked off. That was it. And it was like it didn't matter. There was an audience. You know, I sort of felt like, okay, I already did my 45 minute speech, so I kind of fulfilled my job here, but I'm not going to fucking sit here and let myself be taken advantage of.

[A]

Yep. Wow.

[C]

And so it was, you know, it's just like those things I have to remind myself, you know, it's a powerful

[A]

thing because you think that, you know, at least I did. I was like always, yes, okay, okay, okay. Anything. And then if somebody put me in a corner or made me extremely uncomfortable, like there's times that people have made me extremely uncomfortable doing this job. And I felt like I had to just push through and perform through because that's just what I signed up for. But it's like once you realize, uh, I actually don't have to take this.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Goodbye.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a real powerful moment. Cause it's not easy to do.

[C]

No, no, no, it's good. It's interesting. I was thinking about to level set so that you know what you're getting into with this conversation. The person you were sitting with that I am so not cool. Oh, I'm gonna embarrass the entire Gen X and hopefully it will only be once in this conversation. But like, Miley taught me what WAP was. Dylan Mulvaney just taught me what twinks were. Sarah Silverman taught me the Stranger. And I heard you Say on Jennifer Hudson.

[A]

Oh, boy. That you read the notes.

[C]

Read the notes. That's how I can't even throw ass better than Harry Styles, your friend. What the fuck is throwing ass? I know, I'm sorry. I just like, what the fuck is.

[A]

Throwing ass is crazy because you know what throwing ass is? It's just. It's the phrase and I think that sounds abstract. Like when you say it, it's so abstract. It's like 50 year old white lady throwing the ass. Mm. How do I describe this? Cause you know I did a TED talk on twerking.

[C]

Yes, that's right. I forgot. I'm sorry.

[A]

TED talk on twerking.

[C]

That is right. I'm so sorry.

[A]

So important. It was so important to me because I do think that the origins of twerking are so powerful and deeply spiritual and healing and important. And I think one day, when twerking is an Olympic sport, this is gonna be a part of the classical etymology of twerking. Throwing us.

[C]

And you will win the gold for the U.S. hello.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I truly would. 10 years ago. Throwing ass is a level of twerking.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

There's levels to it. There's like, there's a polite twerk. That's where you do a little shake. There is throwing it bike. So that's when you're throwing it back like that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And then there's throwing ass, which is just like a freestyle. Like, you know, all bets are off. The ass could be going up and down. The ass could be going around in a circle. The ass could be clapping.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

So that's just when you're throwing. Okay.

[C]

I think because I am a bad dancer. I have probably, maybe I've done the first one and I used to do Zumba.

[A]

It may have happened and you didn't even realize it. You know, sometimes when you're happy and you're walking in high heels, you hear a little clap.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

If you heard a little clap behind you, okay. It might have been your girl saying, hey. Ha. A round of applause. That's too good. Monica, that's throwing ass for you. One on one. You just got the thrown ass.

[C]

101.

[A]

I'm a professor.

[C]

All right. Exactly. I love it. It's so good. It's interesting because I think like this thing that we have in common is we both love. I think.

[A]

Woo.

[D]

Woo.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[C]

But I feel like that has been a really deep part of who I became and who I was, who I like sitting here as of the deep sort of consciousness and resonance work. That I've done. And the crystals, which you will get one like a sticker from a doctor's office at the end of our chat. And also when I felt open to it, being able to sort of get messages and things from whether it's intuitives or channelers, like people who channel different people. The whole, like, I'm full.

[A]

Woo, woo.

[C]

I'm fully there. And you've got a medium, is that right?

[A]

Yeah, she does medium work. She's a channeler.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

She's extremely spiritual, but really I think she just connects to the collective consciousness. She doesn't do anything that we're not capable of doing, but she's just able to tap into her highest vibrational self and connect. I love her.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Wendy LaBelle to the dad.

[C]

And when did you. Is this. Have you always been this way or is this something that you kind of arrived at?

[A]

So I grew up in the Church of God in Christ, which is a Pentecostal sect of Baptist church. And in COGIC you are taught was a church of God.

[C]

What is cogic?

[A]

I'm sorry, A church of God in place.

[C]

Oh, ok, got it.

[A]

So you catch the spirit, and it's an extremely spiritual sect of Christianity and you can speak in tongues and you are getting messages from the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. And so from a very young age, I learned from the Bible that everything that happens in the physical world happens in the spiritual world. So I was highly aware of a spiritual world. I was raised walking in the spirit and speaking in the spirit. And I think when you get older, I have all of these tools from my COGIC background where now I'm like, oh, well, I understand why that's happening. I know that I can speak to my ancestors. And I know that if I have a dream, this wasn't just a dream. And I know that if I have a thought, like once I was at a concert, I can't remember, and my knee started hurting and I was like, ooh, ow. Hurt my knee. And my brother hurt his knee that night in a whole other state.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And I was like, wow, we're connected. So I understand that on just a whole other level. It's innate with me. So when I meet people who have these talents. Cause, you know, I'm not just out here seeking, you know, tarot card readers and fortune tellers. I am kind of called to people, you know? Cause I. That stuff used to scare me.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I used to be freaked out by like, I never got my cards read. Like I would be. So I was Like, I don't like playing with that stuff. And I felt like a lot of people, they would be like, and this is when you're gonna die. And I'm like, no, no, no.

[C]

I don't like playing with that stuff. No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

I have been very fortunate to meet very naturally or be connected to people who are in the light, you know, and. And only communicate with light and with love. And you go to her, her store in Sherman Oaks and there's little angels and beautiful little pictures of, you know, heaven. And, you know, and I'm just like, I feel good here. I feel safe here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, versus just like traversing into powerful corners because it's. They call it woo woo, and they try to, like, diminish this, but it's a very real thing and there's levels to it. And I'm not trying to get on those dark or deep levels. Like, I'm over here in the light. I believe that I'm always protected and that danger doesn't come to me. You know, I feel very protected by my great grandmother who prayed over me. And I think that prayer continues. I practice meditation, a kriya yoga, every single day, twice a day. And I always imagine, like a light around me, like a ball of light. And it's an extremely blissful experience. I'm tapped in, honey.

[C]

Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I have a friend who's like one of the best writers of our time, and he just liked the opposite of woo woo. And I've given him crystals and he's like, thanks for the rock, you know, kind of a thing. Like, it's just not his thing. And yet I just think, where do you think your brilliance on the page comes from? Like, it's coming from above. You're channeling it. And so is that the kind of connection that you have with your work and your music?

[A]

Yeah. And to one thing I'll say about your friend is like, you know, science is just explaining spirituality, and spirituality is the manifestation of science.

[C]

I love that. Yeah, I love that.

[A]

There's so many experiments that prove what we're talking about. It's just the language that we're using isn't, you know, white lab coat and a pen. But to talk about channeling brilliance. I used to write music like Eminem and 8 Mile. Like, I used to have like a notepad and I would write my songs out and I'd write out my lyrics and try to perfect it on the page and scribble it out. And I remember that Was great. That worked for me for a long time. But I found that I was very. It was very like my music was very like cerebral and very like smart and like rapity rap. Knapsack in the back of the back, you know, like.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But wrapped in this beauty and a feminine softness.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[C]

And it's the contrast. That's. Okay, I interrupted you. I'm sorry.

[A]

But thank you for that. But then. And that was around when I was doing like my mixtapes, like Lizzle Bangers. And then one day, I remember I was in the studio with a songwriter and they were like, our job is to carry a. We're messengers and our only job is to not fuck it up, you know, and. And I watched them. We played the track and then they went in the booth and they freestyled like, and just went off through the whole track. And it was amazing and it was incredible. And I was like, whoa, this is. And then at the end we were like, can we listen to that? And the engineer was like, I wasn't recording. I was just getting levels. When I say everybody's heart was like. And it kind of like devastated the rest of the session. But it was such a huge lesson for me that, like, that first thing that comes out, that's the channel, that's the message. And most of my music since then is underthought. The first kind of sketches and shapes and big words that you hear is the message that I'm supposed to be channeling. And then the, you know, music theory, flute specialist, pop song. Yeah. Classically trained brain comes in and I start making it like a well crafted piece of music. But like, the message is always bigger than me.

[C]

So it starts with the channel. That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Now it does. It's so fun. And I used to freestyle rap all the time, so it's like I could freestyle sing. What's the difference? It's probably easier. So. Yeah, freestyling is. Do you remember that movie? I think it was called Soul and.

[C]

Oh, the animated movie.

[A]

And it was like when you're in the. When you're in your flow state or when you're in the zone, like, I believe the zone is a real spiritual place that you go to.

[C]

Oh, interesting. Okay. Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yeah, I know how I did it.

[C]

A vibration that. I mean, I think the. A lot of the personal work that I do is around resonance, you know, and vibration and cleaning the field and re patterning the field and all that stuff.

[A]

I think people really look at vibration as another woo woo term, like vibe. Vibration, but like it's an actual scientific occurrence. Your heart is beating a certain amount of beats per minute. That vibration is pulsing through your blood. That vibration is resonating through the 70, 80% water you're made of. Yeah, like if you sit still enough, you can feel your body kind of pulse like a drum and vibrate. You're constantly vibrating. When you drink alcohol that, that the heart rate slows down a little bit because it's a depressant and your vibration is actually lower. Yeah, I think it's wild how we undermine these kinds of things. You are functioning on a, on a vibration at all times and you can raise or lower that vibration depending on what you eat, who you're around, how you're feeling that day, what you've taken. You know, it's a really sacred thing to maintain. And I try to keep my vibration as high as possible.

[D]

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[C]

How have you found ways to do that? More like over the course of your having become a public person. Like, is that something you've had to work on?

[A]

Yeah, in the beginning I was really careless with my energy and my body. Like I was drinking a lot of tequila, like to get on stage, mind you, I'm doing a show where I'm singing and rapping and dancing and playing the flute. I'm housing hot cheetos in line and taking shots of tequila backstage before going on, going on. That's just wildly careless. But I needed these kind of material things, these kind of physical things to push me through, to get me through. And that's what was working for a while, until it wasn't. And you know when you become really, really depressed and when you get really, really low, but you're at the top of, you know, of your game and your career, you start to be like, well, wait, why you have everything you want? Why are you sad? You know, what's wrong? And then you realize the things that you've, the people you've been around and the food you've been eating and the alcohol you've been consuming and the mindset you've been in is maintaining this low vibration, maintaining this depression, this sadness, this insatiableness, this anxiety. And I realized you can always improve. There's always room for improvement. You can be the best flute player in the world. There's always room for improvement. Best singer in the world. Always room for improvement. You could be the best friend, the best daughter, you know, the best girlfriend in the world. Always room for improvement. And I think that that is actually what got me into the place where I'm at, where I'm at now, where I'm just like so happy, you know, and I'm so balanced and I feel so confident and, you know, so self loving, you know, I'm like, yeah, I was the self love guru. I was that girl. But I could always be better at loving myself. Because there's always gonna be something that comes up that tries to knock you off your square, Some new situation that arises, that kind that wants to challenge the love that you have for yourself, and you have to figure out how to get through it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It's. The whole flute thing is. So I'm gonna say funny to me, because when I was in fourth grade, I decided I wanted to learn to play the flute, and. Except I couldn't figure out how to blow. Right.

[A]

Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right.

[C]

I don't know if I was blowing in. And you're supposed to blow across whatever it was. And so then, given everything that it happened to me, it's, like, not a story I tell very often, but, you know. And then I was like, oh, yeah. And Lizzo, you know, she used the presidential glass flute.

[A]

I was like, we're not gonna go there.

[C]

I know, I know.

[A]

Wow, that's wild.

[C]

Yeah. So I did not. How old were you when you learned to play the flute and you could blow correctly?

[A]

Oh, baby. When I blew on that presidential glass flute, I could not believe how upset people were. How are. Why are you mad anyway?

[C]

There's so many things that I could say in response to that, but we're

[A]

gonna leave it right there, right?

[C]

We may cut that part, but we'll see.

[A]

First of all, man, I can turn anything into a flute. Like, I can play a glass bottle.

[C]

Oh, really? Okay.

[A]

I can play wooden flutes. Anything that' cylinder with holes in it that can. Is capable of wind resonance. I'm on it. That's it. I'm such a nerd about those kinds of things. But it started in fifth grade, So I was. You know, I grew up in Houston, Texas. So football is huge, a huge industry. So marching bands are right. They need the marching bands. So they really enforce being in band at a young age. So I was like, okay, this is the thing to do. You know? It was an amazing band director. He was incredible. Everyone wanted to be in the band. So we were all sitting there, and then, you know, he had one other person. It was this woman. She was a flute specialist. And he was like, pick who you want for flutes, because he was gonna handle everything else. He was a jazz guy, and she looked at me and picked me, and I was just like, yes. You know? Cause I wanted it, but, you know, she didn't have to pick me. There was a lot of people who didn't get chosen for flute. And I remember being in the. And she took us all to A separate room. Because maybe flute is just really hard because I'm remembering this now, and I'm like, wait, why did they take us to a separate room?

[C]

Right.

[A]

It is to learn flute. And we had to start with the head joint. So, like, the flute is long like this, but there's like a little head joint in it. And we were all sitting there going,

[C]

yeah,

[A]

that's how you learned. I don't know if that's what they.

[C]

I don't know. I just kept. Whatever it was. I kept trying.

[A]

Yeah. Like. But you have to do this forever. And just. And I remember sitting there and being like, this sucks. Like, I want to be good at flute already. And so I went and got James Gowe's the Man with the Golden Flute. And it was a book with a cd, old school. And it had sheet music in it. And I would go and I would just listen and I would read the music. And I didn't. I had a fifth grade knowledge of sheet music back then, but I was training my ear and my eye to it. And I was also. I sound just like James Galloway, tone wise, because I learned from him. And I taught myself how to play flute. I accelerated my learning experience by ear and then until I could catch up and because I was like, I want to be the greatest flute player ever. I did.

[C]

I mean, so what do you. Like, that's pretty interesting that that one choice that that teacher made.

[A]

I know. You know, can change the trajectory of someone's life. I think that's why, like, I'm so, like, passionate about education. And like, I. I have a children's book coming out that I'm.

[C]

Yeah, Little Sasha, right?

[A]

Yeah. Little Sasha was Lil Lizzo meets Sasha flute.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah. And it's a story about me as a kid, but, you know, I kind of embellish it. But it's about how a little girl finds her voice with a flute while the flute. She's a magical flute, and she needs to find her voice too, because a flute, she can't play herself. So Sasha discovers her, and they go on this journey through all these different worlds. And she's trying to play the flute and it's not working. And they're. They're like, oh. They're like, okay, well, maybe it'll work in space. And then eventually it's just like, ugh, I can't. I don't know why I can't make a sound. I don't.

[C]

Literally, me in fourth grade.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It's your story.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they take it so personally, because it's not just about playing the flute. It's about fitting in. It's about belonging. It's about knowing who you are. And eventually, I'm not gonna give away how, but things do turn around for Lil Lizzo.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And I also have, like, a. I wrote an original flute piece for young kids who are learning instruments. So you can, like, scan the QR code and listen to the music, and we'll get the sheet music transcribed.

[C]

I love that.

[A]

It's so important to me, man. Like, children need to play an instrument.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I genuinely feel like they do. Whether it's piano, whether it's flute, whether it's clarinet, whether it's a recorder for a year. That's so fundamental for our brains.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's also the experiences and the. The friendships and the families. Like, I was a marching band, and we'll be going to our state competitions. We'd be crying. We'd be passionate, you know, and that kind of, like, teamwork and that foundational teamwork and hard work and. And responsibility that you take on, it's like, I gotta stand straight. I gotta stand at attention. I gotta make sure. Because we're a part of a unit, so every individual matters for the bigger picture.

[C]

So interesting.

[A]

It's such a beautiful thing to have.

[C]

You're reminding me, too, that my therapist had said to me at some point, and she was like, you should learn an instrument. Because the patience that you have to sort of get from learning an instrument, from not being able to just pick it up and get it right away, is a really important skill for life.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Was there a moment, like, a defining moment for you that sort of.

[A]

Yeah. There was a strange moment in my life where I felt like a failure, because I've always been, like, the best flute player. I was always, like, first chair. Always. And when you get to college, you become like, oh, wait, I'm not the best. Like, this is crazy. Or there's, like, seniority at play. And I'm like, well, I'm better than her. And I think, like, it messed with my confidence a little bit. And I started to kind of feel like a failure a little bit. And then, like, the academics were throwing me off. I was like, why can't I just come to school and just do music? Like, why do I have to do math again? I did math for 12 years. Like, God. And it was really starting to stress me out. And over the summer break, I kind of fell into this weird silent period. I stopped talking. Wow. I stopped talking. I stopped talking. About.

[C]

I mean, like, completely.

[A]

Yeah. I didn't speak at all. I stopped talking to my family. They would talk to me, and I would. I would just be quiet.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

And it was really hard on them. I don't know. I don't know what came over me. I don't know if it was some sort of, like, depression or some sort of, like, episode. But I just stopped and I became obsessed with Spring Awakening, this musical. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is incredible. And I would just listen to it every day, and I would watch the little clips that they had online every day. And I was like, I wanna be in a musical. Like, I wanna be in Spring Awakening. And I shifted from wanting to be in the classical world to wanting to be in the performing world, to be a performer. And I would go out every night by myself, and I would walk around the neighborhood, and I would listen to Beyonce. And that was the only time I used my voice. I would sing Beyonce, like, at the top of my life.

[C]

Hopefully not partitioned.

[A]

So it was not partition, okay? It was B day, so. Ha ha, period. And I would sing it at the top of my lungs. It was Beyonce's loudest album. It's just, you know, horns and. And so I was like, rah. It was like a lion was coming out. And then in the daytime, I was silent again. And I went back to Houston because at that time, I was staying with my family in Colorado. I went back to Houston to go back to college. And it just wasn't hidden for me no more. And I was like, I'm in school for music performance. I'm gonna go perform music in the real world. And I did.

[C]

When you look back on that, like, you're telling me this whole story. When you look back on that period, how do you see it now?

[A]

You know, what people romanticized it. Like, at the time, I felt like shit because my mom was being so sweet to me, and she just didn't understand why I wasn't speaking. And I couldn't. I couldn't tell her why I couldn't speak to her. And I also was just like, what's wrong with me? You know? And the only time I felt joy was when I was watching Spring Awakening or listening to music or walking by myself. And I told that story, like, years later, they were doing some piece on me, and they were like, wow, so you took a vow of silence? And I'm like, no, something was wrong with me. But I do look back on that, and I think historically, when people do fall into These quote unquote vows of silence. It is a life altering moment. It's almost like, you know when like your computer is like, hey, we're doing an upgrade and it just shuts down while it does that. That might have been me. I might have just been shutting down for like an upgrade. And I had no idea how far it would go. No idea back then. But like my body, my spirit had prepared for it.

[C]

Yeah. Amazing. So interesting.

[A]

It was so weird.

[C]

Well, and then. And then there was a period. So you left college and then you're touring at this point and opening?

[A]

No, not yet.

[C]

Not yet.

[A]

There was a really dark period that followed. Extremely dark mind. But my dad died and I had just been like absolutely devastated by it. And I kind of abandoned all my responsibility in life. Like, I wanted to be a successful musician, to make him proud and to take care of him because his health was failing. Since I was like a junior in high school. And at this point I was in like a rock band that I found on Craigslist. I loved being in that rock band, but you know, they don't pay the bills. And I was bouncing around odd jobs. But then when he passed away, I just. Something happened. I shut down again. And I was basically living out of like a beat up Subaru. Like a T boned Subaru that you had to like climb in to get into. And I was sleeping in there. You had a Subaru?

[C]

Yeah, in college.

[A]

They're good cars.

[C]

Oh, they're great cars. Yeah.

[A]

I got pulled over by the police once. Cause they thought I was just in a wreck. Like that's how bad it was.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Like the whole thing was like someone T boned it. So the car looked like this. I called it Harvey Dent. And I was sleeping out of that car. And I was so. I was homeless for like a year of my life. And I was like bouncing around, sleeping on people's floors and like my drummer's floor and like eating. When like they would have dinner, they'd be like, hey, we made dinner, you can come over. You know, it was a very like dark period. I was like extremely depressed and I was just like, what am I doing? Like, you know, didn't really feel like life was like the vibe anymore. Cause I was like, this sucks. And I made a really just random ass decision to move to Minneapolis. It was so freaking random.

[C]

Did you know anybody there?

[A]

I knew a guy that I had met in Colorado who was like, I'm moving back to Minneapolis, come be in my band. I was like, whatever, like, sure. And I just went and I think moving to Minneapolis changed the course of my life. Then I started playing shows and I started playing gigs and.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Then I started touring really quickly, as soon as I got there.

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Because Minneapolis is just a beautiful music city.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Like, there's so many incredible, like, local venues. And especially at the time when I moved there, it had this incredible flourishing, like, indie scene of just rappers and singers and rock bands. And it was such a beautiful community, musical community to be a part of. Like, there's people I'm still cool with to this day in Minneapolis.

[C]

That must have impacted you to have such a deep love of a city and to sort of see we don't have to get into political stuff.

[A]

Right. It's deeply painful because it's not the first time this happened to the people of Minneapolis. Like, I was there when I lived literally down the street from where the police killed Jamar Clark. And I remember being like, what's going on down there? I just saw flashing lights and was like, what's going on? And one thing about Minneapolis is in the Twin Cities is that city jumps into action. They're ready. They bars, none. The next day, people are outside, like, what the fuck is going on? They express their dissent in such powerful ways. And I was so inspired by the leaders, the community leaders who rise up and they just. They don't even think. They don't even think twice. Like, knowing people and just being like, oh, yeah, that's my friend, you know, they cool. And then all of a sudden, they're organizing, you know, and they're, they're leading movements and sit ins and going on the freeway and expressing their dissent and even knowing people now who've turned their whole business into community outreach, you know, and they're like feeding people and keeping people warm and inspiring and just housing people. So, yes, the Twin Cities, I mean, we shouldn't have to be doing this. Yeah, yeah. Citizens should be protected.

[C]

Yeah. However I've imagined, it's gotta be very hard for the black community to see people being so outraged so quickly with what's happening now when this has been happening to black people for a long time in our country.

[A]

Oh, honey.

[C]

And so it's a long time.

[A]

This is what America is, in the bones of America is racism. And I think people think that racism is an antiquated thing. But it's a system just like sexism and, you know, classism. And these systems course through the veins of this country. And it manifests itself in implicit ways that people don't even clock. They only clock the explicit. But like, if they knew how insidious and sneaky racism is and how it's everywhere and it's at the foundation of capitalism and everything, I think people would understand more. But you know, James Baldwin said something kind of like to be black in this country and even a little bit conscious is to be in a state of constant rage. And I think that that constant rage is what I'm always trying to quell with love. Because being a public figure, I can't always just be like, ugh, the world. I'm like, no, but how do I make the world better? You know, I have the opportunity to change somebody's day and make it better. What am I going to do to do that, you know?

[C]

No, it's amazing.

[D]

I went to a fancy shindig recently, like hair and makeup done by professionals level fancy. And I wore strapless red gown. Some ladies who have amazing toned arms don't even think twice about it when they wear a strapless dress. I am not that person. I have yo yo dieted most of my life and the signs are there on my skin. But because I've been using one skin body, especially on my arms for a few years now, I had a lot less insecurity on the red carpet. Case in point, I actually wore the strapless dress. This is serious science that fits easily into my existing routine. And every time I use one skin, I'm giving my skin a clear signal to repair damaged cells, support collagen and strengthen my skin barrier. Born from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code reclaiming at OneSkin co. That's 15% off OneSkin co with Code Reclaiming. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please please support our show and tell them we sent you. Full disclosure, I am not the best cook, but what I am is a very good friend. And that means I can entice some of my close friends who are good cooks to come over and make us dinner. Or I can offer to bring the ingredients over to their place. And again, they can cook. Of course I'll help with the dishes, but this is where hellofresh comes in. Hellofresh Meal Kit Delivery makes it easy with recipes that taste delicious night after night. You can choose from more than 35 high protein recipes each week including new Mediterranean and GLP1 friendly options and its wholesome ingredients like sustainably sourced seafood and 100% antibiotic and hormone free chicken. You can totally taste the quality with seasonal produce like pears, apples and asparagus. Because when dinner tastes this good, nothing hits like home cooking. Go to hellofresh.com reclaiming 10F M to get 10 free meals and a free Zwilling knife. $144.99 value on your third box offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan.

[C]

I don't know if I sent it to you or not, but you're saying about people coming together and a good time. I had this funny experience not long after we met where I was in the car by myself and Truth Hurts was blasting. And I was thinking, did I send this to you?

[A]

No, you didn't.

[C]

Oh, my God. So. So I'm like singing in the car, which is also the only place I dance is in the car. And this car pulled up next to

[D]

me, these young girls and they started singing with me.

[C]

It was so amazing.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

So great.

[A]

You were throwing ass in the car.

[C]

Yes, I was throwing ass in the car. Damn fucking straight, Lizzo. Yep. But it was just like, you know, and even. Even my 10 year old nephew got in the car and I had Truth Hurt. I have to say, like, Truth Hurts and good as hell are sort of my. Good as hell feels like my fight song. I don't. You know, So I do my. I'm not going to sing in front of you. Yeah, there you go.

[A]

But yeah, it's so incredible to hear that because that's why I wrote the songs. Like, I didn't write the songs to have a number one record. I didn't even think that was possible for someone like me from where I was from on like a imprint label. Nice life on Atlantic. I didn't think it was gonna go that far. And I was just like crying and like talking about my feelings and to see how many people go just light up at my shows when they hear that piano or both songs start with piano. And to know that Truth Hurts has. It's still in the Guinness World Book of Records for longest number one female rap solo.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And it is about to be a diamond record. My first diamond record. Yeah.

[C]

So that's amazing.

[A]

The proof is in pudding.

[C]

Congratulations.

[A]

Thank you. The proof is in the pudding with that one. I never get tired of singing it. I never get tired. I can't wait.

[C]

It's so funny when my Nephew got

[D]

in the car and it was playing

[C]

and it was really interesting because he doesn't normally like music. He likes silence. Okay. And so. But I had it on from before. I got out of the car to get him, blah, blah, blah. Gets in the car, it's on. And he was like, oh, Lizzo, Truth hurts. I love this song. And so then we're both singing and then I realized, oh, shit, there's some swear words in here.

[A]

And I was like, oh, fuck.

[C]

Has he like, been his mom, probably. And dad. His dad. My brother probably have some non explicit version or something. So it was. I was scrambling to find a kid's version.

[A]

But that chick.

[C]

Yeah,

[A]

that's what I say sometimes, like when I have to perform for the all ages shows. But that's. Yeah, I'm honestly Gen Alpha. Is he gen Alpha?

[C]

He's 10. I don't know.

[A]

I'm Gen Alpha's diva. Okay. Like, honestly, when Gen Alpha's like in their 20s, they're gonna be like, oh, my God, that is our legendary diva.

[C]

And I'm so my Madonna, I guess.

[A]

Listen, baby, I'll be that. Yeah, I'll take it, honey. I love the way that sounds. So. Yeah, that's amazing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, it makes me happy.

[C]

That's a good.

[D]

I listened to you on Keke Palmer

[C]

and you were talking about some really difficult times for you. And I just. It moved me when I heard that part. And so I've just. And I think sometimes it can be so difficult for people to understand when they're. I mean, I think it was easy for people to understand why I had moments of not wanting to be here anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think it was. You were so open about that and you seem to have moved past that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is great. And I just didn't know. I think there was just something for me I like to follow in the conversations where my heart. I feel a heart tether to someone in that way, you know, And I felt that from listening to you in that. And I just didn't know if there was anything more you wanted to say about that time period or what that experience was for you.

[A]

Yeah. I'll say this. Like, even though I'm like a famous person and it kind of feels a little far removed, I think, like, what I experienced isn't just unique to me. Like, everybody has gone through something that was deeply hurtful or has been blindsided by something. And I think my gift is that I'm able to articulate how I got out of it in song and in These beautiful musical moments that can actually help people who go through similar situations or feelings. And I think, like, writing my album has been, like, extremely. Kind of like a catharsis for me, because I'm literally talking about how I got through the rain, or you get through the rain and the storm. And the storm can be a long time. The storm could be three years, the storm could be three days. The storm could be three hours. But my hope is that you could put on one of my songs from my new album and make it an umbrella to kind of march through the storm. I am so happy. I have so much peace with everything in my life. I have a new puppy. I have an amazing relationship. I have a incredible relationship with myself. My man. Yeah, I think you met him. I have such a beautiful relationship with my mind, body, and spirit. Never been better. And I'm just so grateful. You know, it's times like these where you're like, oh, my gosh, like, the sun is out and, let's go outside. Let's go to the park.

[C]

Well, and the good. I think the good part about it, too, because I feel like I've had a rough few months and the ability to remind myself and to sort of just say, okay, I've done this before. I've been here before. This feels a little more than last time, or, you know, but also, first, a. It's a great reminder of how normally things are pretty fucking great, you know, pretty good. That I don't. You know, when you. You go through a dip, through a period of whatever that is and realize, like, okay, it will.

[A]

It will pass, you know, but you're an inspiration to so many people for that because of the way that you were able to, like, reclaim your public narrative, which I think is really fucking hard to do. But even harder than that, that people don't realize, is reclaiming your life on a personal level. The part that people don't see that 24 hours a day that you have to spend with yourself, and you have to deal with it every single day. The fact that you were able to reclaim that for yourself is so powerful and so inspiring. Yeah.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. What the helly? Thank you for showing us how to do it. You know, your life is like. To me, my songs, where it's like, you know, this song is me articulating how to get through the storm, and your life is showing people how to get through the storm.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, so keep doing it.

[C]

Yes, ma'.

[A]

Am.

[C]

Yes, ma'. Am. It's the last question I ask everybody is if you are currently working on reclaiming something. And that could be. It could be anything. It could be an emotion. It could be a place or a hobby.

[A]

Yes. I am reclaiming my joy. You know, what I've learned is one of the things that one of my forms of activism is joy, you know, and my music represents joy, and I kind of lost my joy for a while, and I am in a period of reclaiming that every single day, and it is blissful.

[D]

I feel it on you.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

I feel it.

[A]

I'm so happy. Thank you so much, Lizzo.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

We finally did it. Yay.