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- [00:00]
A
Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Reclaiming is brought to you by Audible. You know that feeling when you can't decide what kind of romance you're in the mood for? Well, at Audible, you don't have to choose. Their romance collection has something for everyone. So maybe you're yearning for a royal romance with a duke. Or perhaps you're dreaming of a perfect enemies to lovers rom com. They've got your next adventure waiting in the city on the hockey field. Or if you're feeling really adventurous and entirely different realms, dive into hilarious modern rom coms from Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood that'll have you laughing out loud on your commute. Or get swept away in an epic romantasy series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Or lose yourself in timeless classics like Bridgerton and Outlander. So ready to fall in love? Your first great romance is free when you sign up for a 30 day trial at audible.com reclaiming because sometimes the greatest love story is the one you hear. That's audible.com reclaiming hi Nicole.
- [01:32]
B
Hello.
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A
Welcome to Reclaiming.
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B
Thank you.
- [01:35]
A
You're welcome. I'm like, wait for you to say thank you.
- [01:38]
B
Well, you said welcome and I was like, what does one say after welcome? Yeah, so I said thank you exactly.
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A
But I gave you the pause. You know, it's like when you say, well, you would know this as a comedian. When you say something funny, you're like, wait for the laugh, right?
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B
Yes. And then sometimes the laugh never comes. Then you go, well, all right, we'll move on.
- [01:56]
A
Yeah. So you and I first met when I had the privilege of being on your 400th episode.
- [02:04]
B
Thank you so much for doing it.
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A
Oh my gosh, it was such an honor. It was so great. I was so flattered.
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B
People really liked the episode. I've gotten so much positive feedback about it.
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A
You were great. So what's the premise of the show?
- [02:16]
B
Why won't you date me is a dating podcast. It's about relationships, dating, sex. And yeah, I started it because my friend Gabris had a podcast at this network called Headgum, and I'd done an episode or two of his. It was called High and Mighty. And he was like, you should get a podcast buyer. And I was like, I don't know. I don't really listen to them. He's like, you don't listen to them. He's like, it's a way to build your audience so people get to listen to you, see if they like your comedy, and then when you're on tour, they'll buy tickets to your shows. And I was like, I don't think so. And then I started the podcast and I was like, wait, I love this because I love talking. I love having a hard opinion that changes week to week. And then he was right. If I mentioned the podcast on stage, people like, woo. And I was like, oh, wow, People. People love podcasts. So, yeah. And then I've just kept doing it, and it's been. It's honestly been really rewarding and really cool, and I just like doing it.
- [03:13]
A
I was a little nervous, just, I think, because I think the. I think the title, right, why won't you date me? And. And I think just probably for me, because I have that even though it's been almost 30 years, that's just that sort of, like, shaming around all those aspects of myself. And so I think I just thought, oh, no, I don't want to. Like, are people gonna think. Even though I know it's your show and I seen the episode, listen to the episodes and all the things, I was like, I just envision this awful headline. That's all for me.
- [03:48]
B
I get that. But I do try, and I've had people on who have said to my producer, I don't want to talk about my personal dating at all. And I go, okay, yeah, okay. So then I, like, try to, like, read articles to, like, prepare and, like, have, like, an overarching view of love.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I never try to make anyone feel like they've revealed more than they've wanted to. Yeah, I think I said it too. I was like, if there's anything you want to cut out later, let me know.
- [04:14]
A
That's how I feel. Yeah, that's how I just. I feel like, what's the point? This is not a gotcha conversation. It's not a news interview. I never want someone to kind of have come on the show and then regret, sort of.
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B
Cause that's the worst. Where you feel comfortable enough to say something.
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A
Exactly.
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B
And then they take it out of context and then they're like, this was said. And you're like, well, I mean, if you listen to the whole thing, there.
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A
Was a more normal or just even the moment, like, you get, you know, you get sort of comfortable and present. But it was great. It was great to be on your show. And as a comedian and podcast host, and you have. How many, like, how many shows do you have right now?
- [04:56]
B
I have one is on hiatus. Newcomers with Lauren Lapkis, because she had booked something and then had another baby. But there's. Why won't you date me? Newcomers 90 Day Bae and best friends with my best friend sister Zamayda.
- [05:08]
A
Oh my gosh. And then nailed it. Is still on Netflix, but it's not.
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B
We haven't shot a new season. I hope we do. It's one of my. It's such a fun job.
- [05:19]
A
I mean, I'm a better baker than I am cook or chef or whatever. But I'm a bad baker. Like, I'm bad to begin with, but I can make Rice Krispie treats.
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B
See, that's pretty. That's nice. That's nice. And that's easy.
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A
One of the reasons I was excited to talk to you is because you have this very powerful book that you did and veryfat, very brave. The fat girl's guide to being brave and not a dejected melancholy down in the dump sweeping fat girl in a bikini.
- [05:50]
B
Uh huh.
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A
And I mean, we all, like the producers and I were talking about it and just love the concept of the book and that you. It's mainly a photo book. Mainly a photo book of a hundred photos of you in a hundred different bikinis.
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B
Right.
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A
And all about not body positivity, but about like body, except just like self acceptance.
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B
I guess the word is body neutrality.
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A
Right?
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B
Because I don't like body positivity because I've woken up, I wake up a lot and I go, I don't like what I see. But then I'll go, what if I put on this outfit and do my hair this way? And then finally I'll get to a point where I like what I see. But it took work. I feel like body positivity is telling people to like, always be positive about their body, always be happy with it. And it's like, well, if it's not functioning the way it's supposed to, it's okay to be frustrated and it's okay to feel feelings. So I guess I wrote the book because there's also. Each photo has an insane caption.
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A
Yes. Like the water hose one of drinking. I drinking water. Because this is how you hydrate that body.
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B
I think it was, you're too fat to use a regular water fountain, so you got to use a hose for your big body or something like that. They're all tongue in cheek. Because I feel like sometimes when people are fat or overweight or however you want to say it. Society's not kind to you. And I wanted people to be able to, like, kind of laugh. Laugh at the silliness of it, that people are so mean. Laugh. That, like, being called a whale is an insult. That's wild. Like, that's so wild to me. Being called a pig is an insult, and it's like, it's an animal.
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A
Right?
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B
Like, why is that an insult?
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A
So, like, do better people come up with better? Yeah.
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B
Yes. And then it was really just fun to shop for bikinis. And there's, like, tips in it on how to shop for a bikini, how to feel good in one. And the concept of the book came from my friend, but it had been, like, in my brain that I wanted to post more pictures of myself in a bikini because I went to Palm Springs with a friend and I bought a bikini. And I was like, I think I'm gonna wear it, but I don't know. And she was like, we don't know anyone here. Wear it. And I was like, you're right. This is a new life. I'm gonna. I'm in Palm Springs. So I wore it. And this, like, this dad was looking at me. He was, like, with his whole family. But he kept staring at me, like.
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A
In a checking you out good way or.
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B
I don't know.
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A
Okay.
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B
I don't.
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A
But he was with his family, so. Hashtag creepy.
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B
Very creepy. And then I was like, huh? I stopped this man's vacation. He was with his whole family, and he needed to stop what he was doing to stare at me. Whether good or bad, I've affected this man's life. And I was like, and that's really powerful. And I really like that. Good or bad, I really like that. So, yeah, it's just like owning. Owning your body. Whatever shape it is, whatever size it is.
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A
Right, right. Which is great. Which I think is important.
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B
I think so.
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A
Well, it's. I mean, my. I think my relationship to my weight and my body has always felt two different things, in a way. Like, I was just always. To. To me, my body was always my weight and then. And kind of recognizing, I think, over the years. And as I started doing somatic therapy, I think I started to recognize, oh, my body is a. Is like my body is my body.
- [09:22]
B
Yes.
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A
And. And it's actually connected to my head.
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B
Yes. And your weight technically has nothing to do with that.
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A
Right.
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B
It's just, what. How big or small your body is. But, like, I think the more important question is, do you feel good in your body? Does your body move the way you want it to? Do you feel happiness? Do you move your body joyfully? I started pole dancing in 2019, and I hate exercise. I hate it so much. But you get to wear big, tall shoes and, like, wear sparkly things and, like, swing around a pole, and it takes a lot of strength and effort. And I'm sore for days after. And it's like, that's fun. That's nice. I feel like we taught people to, like, move your body joyfully. Like, I think people would be happier in their bodies.
- [10:16]
A
Yeah. What was the reaction? Like, what. What's the. What are the different kinds of reactions that you had to the book? Like, would people come up to you and thank you for it?
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B
Yes.
- [10:27]
A
Uhhuh.
- [10:27]
B
A lot. And then people still bring them to my shows for me to sign, which is very, very sweet and nice. I just. I think the book resonated with people because if you're fat plus size, whatever, there's not representation much like that out there. Like, sure, there's influencers and whatnot, but, like, I feel like a lot of it is clothing focused and not like, let's see. Let's see the body. Let's see the actual body. I'm not trying to camouflage a single thing. The book has some tips. Some of the tips are bikinis are made out of spandex. Buy a smaller size than you think you are, and then stretch it. And then I think sometimes thinner. People resonate with the book because they have fat people in their lives and they appreciate the representation. Or maybe they felt unseen for other reasons and they feel seen with that. I don't know. But I am happy that people liked it and thought it was funny, because at the end of the day, I. When I'm writing something and it makes me laugh really hard, I'm like, oh, boy, I really hope this makes somebody else laugh. And I was like, running some of the captions past my best friend. She was like, nicole, that one's dumb. And I'm like, yes. Yeah, I just. I love dumb. I'm not the smartest comedian. I love just. He. Hahas. That's. That's the nicest thing.
- [11:49]
A
But it was interesting because as I was prepping to sit to talk with you, I was reminded of a store that I had not thought about for a very long time and a store that I. Lane Bryant. Exactly. That I spent many of my. In my heavier periods, I was thinking about. I don't actually know anybody who had worked in Lane Bryant. I spent a lot of time there. But how old Were you when you were working there?
- [12:13]
B
I think I was because I got a job at 16, but I was working at the store called Joyce Leslie. East coast people will know that. And then I think I started working at a Liam Bryant when I was 17 or 18.
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A
Okay.
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B
I think it was 18.
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A
I did retail also. I was like retail. Toy store, necktie store. Yeah, it sucks. Oh, I think it's a lot easier than waitressing.
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B
Really? Yeah.
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A
Just like I've never understood how do you balance all the things and remember.
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B
The things you don't have to. You get a little pen, you write everything down. I don't know.
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A
But carrying all the.
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B
I don't have to. I would bring people drinks two at a time, four at a time. I would, like, hold them, cuz I couldn't balance a tray at all.
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A
Okay, so you think retail was harder than waitressing?
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B
Yes, because you're getting paid so little and when people come in right before closing and then they're unfolding and you're just like, oh, my God. Do you. Do you have any idea how mind numbing it was to fold 50 T shirts? And you came and you went, no. And you don't even try to fold it back up. It like, it used to annoy me so much. And then we had to fold the jean, the denim wall in a certain specific way so that all of the jeans were the same size or shape. I was like, but why? Yeah, why does it have to look like. Oh, my God. Really just took me back. I hated it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Are you so much.
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A
Are you now a much more conscientious shopper? Like, you fold and you.
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B
Yes, I hang in fittings. I hang things up. And the costumers will always be like, you don't have to do that. I'm like, no, no, I do. I have to. I cannot tell you how many fitting rooms I've walked into with just shit all over the floor. And I'm like, you know, somebody has to pick that up. You have to know that when you throw it on the floor, you take it.
- [14:02]
A
Right. I think I. I'm sort of in the middle of like, I try to be a better person, but I actually. Because I'll put it on the hanger, but I might put it on the hanger inside out.
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B
Who cares? At least you tried.
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A
Okay. But I know, I know when I put it on the hanger inside out.
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B
I know that it is like, I don't know. When you bring your cart to the cart return, you didn't bring it back to the store.
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A
Right.
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B
But you did. You did half. You did half the job.
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A
Right, Exactly. I didn't just smash it into the car next to me.
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B
So I. Inside. Out on the hangar, I would be fine with.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
But on the floor, crumpled up. Sometimes people balled it up, and I'm like, but you could have put it on the hanger instead of balling it.
- [14:43]
A
Or even on the chair or the thing or whatever. Yeah, no, no. But it was. It's funny because I, it's not funny, but one of the things that I appreciated about Lane Bryant was that even though the clothes were kind of a little old lady. Little old lady. They had really pretty silk lingerie. The lingerie was really nice.
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B
Yes. To seek intimates.
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A
Yeah. And that was actually. That was really important to me and really meaningful and sort of when I was a teenager. And I think that that was something that actually. I'm not gonna say it ever took away. Well, yeah, I think it took some of the shame that I experienced at times. I think it helped curb that.
- [15:32]
B
Well, it's interesting that you say that, because I feel like, as a fat woman, you kind of have to, like, steal joy in ways. And I feel like wearing lingerie that's nice. Or a bra that's satin with lace is like, I'm gonna put this joy on.
- [15:47]
A
Yeah.
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B
Something that I feel really sexy in, feel beautiful and. And then put my clothes on on top of it. So it's like a little thing for me.
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A
Right. But I, I don't know that that's, I don't know that that's weight related.
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B
You don't think so? I feel like thinner women just, they have the opportunity to go into any store they want to go into, and they can put on anything on their body, and they get to, like, show off how cool their outfit is. Right. Where it's like, I'm wearing a paisley tent, but I have a satin bra underneath. That's nice, right?
- [16:21]
A
Yeah. I think I feel like it is, it has more to do with connecting with your femininity.
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B
Okay. I can see that.
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A
For me, because I've been so many different sizes, so I think there is, there is an aspect that it would connect me to feeling more like a woman. I know. Here we are talking about panties. Sorry. To all the men in the room. But it's. I, I, I just, like, so curious. I mean, sort of going back here. Now, you were raised in New Jersey with two sisters, right? Oh, one sister. Okay. And what were you? Are you older? Younger?
- [16:57]
B
I'm younger. I'm A. Oh, you debated? Almost exactly. A year and a half younger than her. She thought she was in the clear. And then I came and I was like, imma your life up. I'm loud. My mom was told she couldn't have any more kids, so I was a surprise. Oh, wow.
- [17:13]
A
Okay. Interesting. Yeah.
- [17:16]
B
Show me that a lot. Growing up, you know, I wasn't supposed to have you. And I was like, what does that mean? Why do you keep telling me that?
- [17:25]
A
That's money in the therapy.
- [17:27]
B
It sure is. Just dink.
- [17:28]
A
Yeah. And so what were you like as a kid then?
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B
Loud.
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A
Uh huh.
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B
Very loud. They used to call me Tina because I would just scream like, kind of like Tina Turner.
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A
Okay.
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B
And then I had a little Tina Turner cassette tape and there's lots of pictures of me holding little karaoke machine singing Tina Turner. I just talked a lot. I had undiagnosed adhd, so mine manifested in being very chatty, not concentrating on my work, being a little busy body. I was nosy, constantly in trouble because I just couldn't sit still. Mine manifested a little bit like, like a little boy, like, like the hyperactivity. And I feel like recent studies or like women with ADHD are kind of like spacey or like they like daydream or whatever.
- [18:16]
A
Right.
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B
But mine was just like, ah, I have like a little Tasmanian devils. Kind of like what? It was okay. Too much. I was always said, Everyone always said I was too much.
- [18:25]
A
Yeah. Oh, interesting. Did you feel too much?
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B
No, because when it's happening to you, you're like, why don't these adults like me? Why do I keep getting in trouble? Because you're like, I don't know, I'm me. I'm fine. As a kid, I didn't really have self awareness, but as an adult, I know when I haven't taken my medicine, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm annoying. Oh, I got to just be quiet or tell people, hey, I forgot to take my medicine. So I will not be offended if you need me to shut up.
- [18:58]
A
That's really interesting to me. It's. I mean, I've sort of self diagnosed because all the things I see on Instagram, it explains a lot of the reasons of the kinds of things that, that I would beat myself up for. You know, like I walk into the kitchen and I just. Why, like, why is it like this? Who left everything open? Like, why, why do I leave drawers open? What is wrong with me? And you just. I think you can end up really starting to beat yourself up a lot.
- [19:27]
B
And you Start being mean to yourself. I would say that diagnosis was the nicest thing that's ever happened to me because now I. I used to just leave mess. I. I used to not be able to clean. Now I can clean, but I put everything in little piles that I'll. I'll finish off later and.
- [19:48]
A
Oh, I know those piles. Actually, container store is really good for getting a new container to put the things in. So then the stuff is just organized. Yes, it's organized.
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B
Piles are organized.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And on Sunday, I got to all the little piles on my dining room table. I was so proud of myself. And that's the thing that I do. If I can finish a task, I go, hey, it took three weeks, but you did it. And that's okay.
- [20:14]
A
You landed the plane. It's interesting being nice.
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B
Nice to yourself.
- [20:18]
A
Yes, that is. I did an anti bullying campaign, I think, two years ago now for Bullying Prevention Month. And it was all about self bullying, about just making people more aware of the way we talk to ourselves. Like we would never. I would never talk to someone else the way that. And it was really interesting for me because the kind of seed idea for the campaign came. I took these courses 8 million years ago, you know, and it was like they put us in these little groups, and I was in a hat and fake glasses, not under my real name. And we had to sit and write the list of, okay, what are all the things that your negative voice says to you in your head? So I was like, oh, this is fucking easy.
- [20:59]
B
Do, do, do, do, do, do.
- [21:00]
A
And then they made us read our list out loud to the other people, and I started crying.
- [21:08]
B
That's a great exercise because you're saying things out loud that you would never want to say out loud, but you're okay thinking it, right?
- [21:15]
A
And just so mean. I just was so mean to myself, you know, and that. And I still do it sometimes, but it has been a marker for me of when things have changed. Like, I really remember one time realizing I, like, tripped on something because it was messy, and I fell, and instead of cursing myself out like, you idiot. You know, I was like, oh, thank goodness I didn't hurt myself.
- [21:43]
B
Yes.
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A
You know, and that was the. You know, it sounds dumb, but that was a really big noticing for me.
- [21:49]
B
Well, my therapist, what does she say it's called? It's called a reframing, where you just, like, reframe it. It's like, instead of you idiots, like, oh, well, silly me. At least I didn't get hurt. That's a reframe and that's good. And then my therapist is also like, yeah, you wouldn't say that about somebody you love, so don't say that about yourself. And I'm like, okay. So, yeah, I do the same thing where when something happens, I have to just go, hmm, okay, well, that was not ideal.
- [22:17]
A
Yeah.
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B
But that's okay.
- [22:19]
A
I had therapy this morning, and we were talking about just, you know, childhood trauma, and she said something that was so interesting, and in. In that sense of like, that early trauma. Early childhood trauma doesn't change, like, going to the orthodontist. It doesn't just straighten out. And now it's straight forever. You know, it's just. It's kind of always there in these different iterations as so annoying.
- [22:51]
B
But it is annoying. It's because it happened so long ago. Then you carry these truths with you that aren't actually truths, and then you have to reframe and, like, work on it and be like, this isn't actually true. I'm a different person than I was when I was, like, six. Like, I'm trying to work on. Like, I'm not too much. I'm just enough. It's fine that maybe I'm too much for some people, maybe I'm not enough for other people, but, like, I'm just me, and that's okay. And, boy, oh, boy, that's been so hard.
- [23:21]
A
It is. It. It. It can be hard. I mean, you lost both parents pretty early, right? So you were a teenager with your mom and 21 with your dad.
- [23:31]
B
Yes. And, yeah, I was 16 when my mom died, 21 when my dad died.
- [23:35]
A
Okay. And what were they like?
- [23:38]
B
My mom was very funny. She was so funny. She loved laughing. She was like my best friend. We would just, like, hang out. Like, she was just like my friend. She was a Christian, so she was in the church, and then everybody at the church loved her. My dad was quiet, but also very funny. But I didn't realize that until after my mom died. I don't know why. I guess I was, like, not interested.
- [24:07]
A
Or was he. Was he more the audience for your mom?
- [24:10]
B
And then probably, yeah. And then after she died, I guess he was like, well, I guess I got to talk more. But it was. It was also funny because my mom was the one who, like, made the rules when she was, like, parenting. And my dad was just like, yep, that's what we do. And I remember right after my mom died, my dad sat me and my sister down and was like, what's your curfew? What time do you guys come home.
- [24:31]
A
Yeah.
- [24:32]
B
And my sister was like, 10. And I said 1am and he said, okay, you come home at 10 and you come home at 1am or midnight or whatever. I said, right. And I was like, huh? So I just get to, like, make up the rules as I go because he didn't know.
- [24:46]
A
Yeah.
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B
And that got me into a little bit of trouble, but that's okay.
- [24:49]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. He was funny. He was very kind, very sweet. Yeah.
- [24:57]
A
Did. Did losing your parents bring you and your sister closer together?
- [25:04]
B
No. I don't know if our relationship changed. We've always been, like, pretty different people. She's very quiet. I love talking. But I will say it did work because, like, after my dad died, we needed to get everything together to sell the house. And then we had to settle all his, like, estate stuff. And she's good with paperwork. And I was like, I can clear the house, right? So like, she'd be working on paperwork and stuff, and then, like, at the end of the day would come help me, like, drag stuff up from the basement. So, like, we in those moments really learned how. How we thrive in, like, working together. So I guess, yeah, we did get a little closer.
- [25:44]
A
Yeah. That's interesting. And did your mom encourage. I mean, like, do you feel. Is your humor similar to your mom's humor?
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B
Okay, very much so.
- [25:53]
A
And did she encourage you to. To, like, move into comedy?
- [25:58]
B
Okay, not comedy specifically, but it was my dream junior year of high school. Junior or sophomore year. Was it? I don't remember. It was one of the.
- [26:09]
A
Sometime in high school sometime.
- [26:11]
B
She was like, you talk so much. Why don't you try out for the play? I was like, okay. And then tried out for the play. And that year, instead of just doing a regular, like, one act, two act play, we did mini one acts. So it was Christopher Short plays by Christopher Durang.
- [26:27]
A
Oh, okay. Is it. Wasn't he baby with the baby Bathwater? Yeah.
- [26:31]
B
Yes.
- [26:31]
A
Yeah.
- [26:32]
B
And he. So the play that went wrong, I think is the, like, right, Right or. No, an actor's nightmare, which is like the play that went wrong. And I was in a short scene called DMV Tyrant. And it's just about a lady at the dmv.
- [26:45]
A
You don't need to explain anything. I think we can all figure out. Right?
- [26:50]
B
Like red.
- [26:52]
A
Exactly. No, no.
- [26:53]
B
I remember in rehearsals getting that first lap, and I was like, oh, my God. Well, that feels great. And then people stop laughing during rehearsals because they know the jokes are coming. So then I would, like, change how I said things. So I Could get laughs. I was like, yeah, I love this. And then the night of the first performance, I, like, killed in a way that I was like, I have to do this for the rest of my life. And, Yeah, I. There is something about making people laugh that feels. I don't know, feels like being, like, at home. It feels really warm and nice and not just on stage. Just like in life sometimes if you can get, like, a barista to laugh, that's a nice time.
- [27:37]
A
Yeah, no, it is. It is. I think it's a. It's a really important way that we connect in the world, I think, especially in today's world, where it feels like laugh or cry.
- [27:49]
B
Yes.
- [27:50]
A
You know, that it is bringing a moment of joy, you know? Does it. Do you feel. This probably sounds like a. I don't know.
- [27:57]
B
I'm like.
- [27:57]
A
I feel like a Barbara Walters question or kind of cliche or whatever.
- [28:01]
B
Give it to me.
- [28:01]
A
No, but if. Just. Do you. Do you, like, feel close to your mom today in being a comedian? Like, does that still feel connected to her that way or.
- [28:13]
B
Yes.
- [28:13]
A
Yeah.
- [28:14]
B
Because my sister brought this up a while ago. I really loved shocking my mom or, like, saying something that's, like, in that bad. But my mom was like, when you decide what you want to do when you grow up, be the best you can be at that. And I went, fine, what if I want to be a prostitute? And my mother said, then be the best one and make all that money. And I was like, can't rattle her. But, like, I'm not saying I'm the best comedian, but I've worked really hard, and I try to be the best that I can be. So. Yeah, it does. I do think my mom would be proud of me, and that brings me so much joy.
- [28:52]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [28:55]
B
And I think my dad would be proud of me. He was, like, obsessed with, like, make your own money and don't have debt. So. So, yeah, I think he. I make a little bit of money and I don't have debt, so I think he'd be proud of me.
- [29:07]
A
Yeah, exactly. And you do bring joy. You bring a lot of joy.
- [29:11]
B
I try.
- [29:11]
A
And you also. I feel like what's really interesting about your work is that you use humor to crack open conversations that people maybe have in their head and. And you bring them to the surface and to have them out loud. And I think that's, like, that's. That's kind of an important.
- [29:28]
B
I think it's fun. Why not talk? Because I guess people have asked or like, well, you talk a lot about, like, sex and relationships and dating. Why do you feel so comfortable being so open? And I guess the answer is, I don't think anyone's a monolith. I don't think any. Any one person is so special that they're different than everybody else. I think everything is relatable. I think you can always find. Oh, a parallel that kind of happened to me. X, Y, and Z. I relate to that. That's funny or, like, poignant or whatever. So, yeah, why not talk about things?
- [30:01]
A
Yeah. I don't know. Just, like, having that lens of laughter and making people laugh and what popped in my head, I think, because when did this come. It came up recently somehow, just that I had met Ken Starr. It was, like, so crazy, you know, here's, like, the guy who investigated me to death, right? And it's. I didn't meet him for the first time until 2018 on Christmas Eve in a restaurant.
- [30:32]
B
That's wild.
- [30:33]
A
Yeah. The whole thing was bananas. The whole thing was strange. And I remember after the incident happened, and I was sitting with my aunt and my cousin, and I was like, oh, my God, I have to tell my therapist. Then I was like, oh, I am totally gonna win therapy this. And it was just the way I was crafting of, like, you're not gonna believe who I just ran in, you know? And just the thing of, like, how do I make that moment sort of the fullest and the funniest that it could be? I mean, I'm very. Gallows humor. I mean, I would not still be here without Gallo's humor.
- [31:05]
B
I agree. Also, winning therapy is great when you can gag your therapist. Oh, my God. I love it because I've said some things where she's like, let's hold space for that. I'm like, you hold the space. I'm living it. Yeah.
- [31:16]
A
When did you become part of Upright Citizens Brigade?
- [31:20]
B
That was. So I went to two years of acting school 2004 to 2005. 2005. 2006. So I think I found UCB in 2008. Ish.
- [31:31]
A
Okay.
- [31:32]
B
Yes. Yes. 2008. Because my dad died in 2008.
- [31:36]
A
Okay.
- [31:37]
B
He died. So my dad. I grew up in Jersey and then went to school in the city. And then my dad hated going to the city. Hated it so much. And after I was like, I don't think I'm gonna get my degree. I think I'm just gonna be in the city and live and try to audition. He was like. He kind of fought against it, but then he accepted it. And then I Was like, oh, I found this, like, improv school, and I'm gonna take improv classes. And he said, okay. And I said, will you come to my graduation show? And he said, yes. And then he died before that. So the joke I would say is he would rather be dead than watch his daughter do object work. And I still think it's a really funny joke. Some people are like, yikes. But I'm like, wait till your parent dies, and then you'll be laughing.
- [32:21]
A
Call me.
- [32:22]
B
But I will say, not like, improv saved my life, but, like, it was so nice that while this awful thing in my life happened, that I could go to a classroom with 20 other adults, strangers, if you will, and, like, make things up that weren't happening to me. So it was like two hours once a week. I could just not be Nicole, whose dad just died and has to sell his house and wrap up all of his, like, paperwork and stuff because it took longer because he never reported my mother dead on anything. So then we had to get death certificates for her and then be like, no, she's not next to Ken. It was just like, he just made a lot of work for us.
- [33:04]
A
Yeah.
- [33:05]
B
Which is.
- [33:06]
A
Yeah.
- [33:07]
B
He was a funny man. And that.
- [33:09]
A
Well, I mean, it's funny. I think that there's. I know someone who was so devastated by his spouse's death that he couldn't tell anybody for six weeks that she had died. And so, you know, I think people. And I mean, when you think about. Right. Like, in that. The adult therapy way, when you sort of look at your parents as human beings separate from this man would have.
- [33:36]
B
To call every single credit card he had and keep telling them that his wife was dead, like, over and over. I wouldn't do it either.
- [33:43]
A
What is the cause? I know you. You talk a lot about therapy in general. Like, in trying to destigmatize it. We've talked about it here. What does that look like for you? If you don't mind talking about it. But, like, what does that look like for you in therapy of having childhood issues that one might have with a parent? Are they still there? Does that.
- [34:02]
B
Yeah. And a lot of my therapy is removing them from a pedestal and being like, oh, they were human. They were just your parents, but they were also human, and they were flawed and choices that were made, maybe you didn't like, but they happened, and that's okay. And we can try to either reframe it or figure out how you can make different choices and whatnot. But, yeah, I think I don't understand how people raw dog life. Like, that seems crazy to me. You got to talk to somebody that's not in your life but has some sort of investment in your life. Right.
- [34:36]
A
And it's like, an interesting way to put it.
- [34:38]
B
Yeah. Because my therapist isn't my friend, but she is a person who, when I have a win, is genuinely excited for me, or if something happens that's awful. And I've been talking about it. She's. She's like, let's. Let's just take a moment and see how, like, how do you feel in this? Like. And friends don't do that. A lot of times, friends will go, oh, my God, that terrible thing happened. Well, girl, you're better than that. That person, this, that. And it's like, sometimes I don't need that. Sometimes I just need someone to go, hey, are you okay? And a therapist can do that. And sure, you're paying them, but, like.
- [35:11]
A
Right. It's friendship exchange.
- [35:13]
B
Yeah. It's transactional, but also isn't friendship. I'm your friend, so you're my friend. That's transactional.
- [35:19]
A
Right.
- [35:19]
B
But, yeah, I don't understand people who don't go to therapy or, like, don't like it. And then also I feel like people don't talk enough about. If you find a therapist and you don't like them, you're not married to them, you can move on, you can go to a different person, you can ask for recommendations. My last therapist, I felt like she got kind of burnt out during the pandemic, and I was like, I don't know if we're gelling anymore. So I was just like, oh, do you have a recommendation? And within, like, 30 seconds, she was like, here you go. And I was like, oh, okay. The feeling was mutual, which is like, fine, it's not personal. It's. We're just not gelling anymore. But, yeah, I love therapy.
- [35:54]
A
Yeah. How. How often do you go?
- [35:56]
B
Once a week? Yeah. I have never. I've never done twice a week. I know some people do twice a week.
- [36:02]
A
Yeah. I went through a phase where before the pandemic, when I was living in New York, my therapist was in New York and in the office, I would go twice a week sometimes and have double sessions. I almost always had a double session. And that proved to be really valuable for me. I guess I'm just as talkative and as open as I am. There are also a lot of aspects to me where I think it takes me a while to open up to the deeper thing or I'll have. Okay, here's all the like shit that's happened in the last week and now we have to talk about the issues, you know, because those are two. Sometimes they overlap, right?
- [36:41]
B
Yes.
- [36:41]
A
But sometimes it's very, it can just feel complicated. I plan my, I plan my sessions out of like, okay, here, here, here are the things I want to get to. Okay, I'm going to start with this. I'm going to go to hereafter. I mean I'll be flexible.
- [36:55]
B
I make a list of like, here's what we gotta talk about. Here's the thing that's been bothering me. Yeah. I, I two A week I think would be too much for me specifically because I like making a choice of what I'm gonna do or how I'm gonna change a situation and then implementing it. And I feel like if I don't have the time to do that, which a week, then I'll feel too rushed. Uh huh. That's just me.
- [37:20]
A
Yeah, I mean I think that's the. Feels a little to me. Like we, there's so many things that we have structures that we have in place in society that come with all these rules and then when you sort of realize, oh no, actually there is no rule there.
- [37:36]
B
No rules.
- [37:36]
A
No rules.
- [37:37]
B
Yeah. One rule that like I, I was like one day I'm gonna have to start dressing like an adult. And then I woke up one day and I was like, no, I don't, I'll wear overalls till I die.
- [37:46]
A
Yeah, exactly. Well and I think one of the other things that's having success also allows you to kind of just. I find like there's that the more either the people that I know that are really successful or the moments where I've had where I felt more successful, I feel like I define myself more. Does that make sense?
- [38:10]
B
Yes. Because success either like in your work or financially or creatively I think gives you a little bit less stress so then you can concentrate a little bit more on yourself. But it's like if you don't have any money, you don't like your job and your life, like you don't like where you live. I feel like that's really stressful and it's really hard to like be open to being who you are.
- [38:35]
A
Yeah.
- [38:35]
B
Because you're like I have so much other to like worry about.
- [38:38]
A
Well, so like survival needs, you know? No, I mean if I ran the world, I. I think I would restructure everything so that people that. It was just almost mandatory to have that time to be in Therapy to have the time to process your session.
- [38:55]
B
Yes. Well, I mean, it would be so nice if therapy was just more accessible.
- [39:01]
A
Yeah.
- [39:01]
B
Where it's like, I don't know, maybe you get a stipend that you can have therapy once a month or twice a month or something. Like, it would be nice if our government cared at all about mental health.
- [39:14]
A
Yeah.
- [39:15]
B
At all.
- [39:15]
A
Well, I read. I think it's Denmark. Maybe you saw this, too, that they teach empathy classes. Like, they teach empathy from kindergarten.
- [39:26]
B
We should do that.
- [39:27]
A
Yeah.
- [39:27]
B
This country lacks a lot of empathy. And a lot of people have real hard opinions until it happens to them. And then they're like, oh, my God, I didn't know it was so bad. And it's like, what? I watched a video where this Mexican man was like, you know, I always thought black people were exaggerating when they were talking about racial profiling, but now that our current administration has ICE out there and whatnot, I'm driving down the street with people staring at me and, like, trying to figure out if I'm here legally or. And I was like, you didn't believe us for. For years. You didn't. And you only believed it when it happened to you. Like, that. That, to me, is crazy, because if someone tells me something awful that I have no idea what that pain is like, I can imagine. And I can be like, wow, I'm so sorry that happened to you. But I feel like people are like, sucks for you. And it's like, what? It's. I. I don't know. We're living in wild times. People are just mean. Yeah.
- [40:23]
A
Just. Well. Or funny or.
- [40:26]
B
Yeah, nice. Funny. I don't know. Anything. Anything other than, like, I hate.
- [40:32]
A
Have you had to contend with a lot of. In your life? Like, are you now at a point where you just go, no. No, asshole. In fact, we were. We were just. I was just talking about this yesterday with the producers. We were like, we have a no asshole policy on this show.
- [40:46]
B
I love that.
- [40:47]
A
Yeah. It's like, nobody can be a part of this show who's an asshole, because it's just not.
- [40:53]
B
Well, it's not fun.
- [40:54]
A
No.
- [40:55]
B
It sucks. And then it's like, oh, now I feel anxious because I don't know if you're gonna yell at somebody. I've had to at work. Like, on a set. There has been times where an actor is, like, rude to the hair people or the makeup people. And I've said out loud, this is not how we talk to people on this set. Like, you can't do for you. That's not nice. I have to sit here and just, like, listen to you berate somebody. Like, that sucks. And let's see, what else. I try to, like. I try to just like, speak up and be like, don't. Don't do that. Like, you don't have to be an asshole.
- [41:27]
A
I did listen to something where you were talking about a fear that you have of sometimes going on stage and, like, you're not funny.
- [41:37]
B
Is that.
- [41:38]
A
Yeah. Is that. Is that a comedian's version of imposter syndrome, or is it that different?
- [41:46]
B
I don't know. I don't know. I don't have imposter syndrome, so.
- [41:52]
A
Okay.
- [41:53]
B
I'm actually not sure. I feel like any room I'm in, somebody else believed I belong there, so why would I. Why would I say they're lying?
- [42:01]
A
Good for you.
- [42:02]
B
But I mean, that's just me being logical. It's not like anything I worked on or anything. It's just like my brain sometimes is very like, well, if this is true, that has to be true. So that's it. But yeah, I have, like, a fear of getting on stage and either not being funny or like, losing my mind. Do you know what I mean? Like, sometimes you lose your mind. Like, okay, like, if you go into like a psychosis, is it slow and steady or do you like, walk on stage and you're like, ah, I'm a llama. But like, how does that happen? I don't know. And that's scary.
- [42:35]
A
Have you ever had psychosis?
- [42:37]
B
Okay, no, but most people who have it didn't have it before. When does it happen? I hope not. When I get on stage and then people are like, haha, she's being funny. And it's like, no, she's in a crisis. So those are my two fears. Losing my mind on stage or walking on stage. And then everyone's like, we hate you. Even though I've done shows, even though they've paid ticket.
- [42:56]
A
Paid money for tickets to come see, you'd be surprised.
- [42:59]
B
Okay, I had. I won't say where I was. I had five very good shows or no, four very good shows. One show, everyone was so drunk in a way that I felt like a substitute teacher. I was just like, can we just, like, focus? And then this lady, like, yelled something right before a punchline. And I went, well, you don't get that. You. You don't get the rest of this. Then people were like, oh. And I was like, I know, it was a really good setup, but that lady ruined it was just it was usually, I'm on stage for an hour, but I was on stage for 50 minutes because I was like, I don't think I can handle 10 more minutes of these people. Yeah. But, yeah, you'd be surprised. People pay for things and then don't want to behave.
- [43:44]
A
That's interesting. Well, and that's gotta be. I feel like my experiences on stage more have to do if I'm giving a talk. When I was learning how to do public speaking and the person was like, you can't really look at people's faces and use that as a marker of how you're doing, because people have a I'm listening to a talk face, and it's very close to I'm really bored face.
- [44:07]
B
Yes.
- [44:08]
A
So, I mean, I've certainly experienced experience negative energy from people, but I was just thinking, that's got to be sort of really intense to be in front of an audience and feel that. Did it impact you for the next time you went on stage?
- [44:24]
B
Okay, no, I can. I cannot enjoy an audience and then have another show that same day and have a blast. Because every show kind of resets and each show's different. I don't. I mean, this is not an invitation to scream out at a comedy show, but if you happen to say something and we end up, like, riffing, that's special. And I don't mind. That's the show you want. You want to talk, we can talk. But there's a point where it becomes disrespectful, where it's like, if sometimes it gets to a point where I go, you have to shut up. And I try to say it in the nicest way possible, but it's like, if you don't shut up after that, this is the show you want. You want me irritated. You want to irritate me.
- [45:11]
A
Right?
- [45:11]
B
Also, when people talk during shows, sometimes you get magical moments where the person's so annoying that you can get a whole audience on your side to hate them. And then it's real. Like, it's. It's a bonding experience to be like, can you believe you left your house at 8pm and 200 people hate you?
- [45:34]
A
Do you think that person leaves and feels great? Like they're the. Like they succeeded in this, in the kind of. That sense of all attention. Right. Even bad attention is good. Whatever the thing is.
- [45:47]
B
Yeah, even right attention is good attention. I don't know. I never thought of that. If they go home and they're like.
- [45:52]
A
Wow, I did it.
- [45:53]
B
I saved the show.
- [45:54]
A
Or. Or just the you know, just the attention, like, for them, they probably feel good.
- [46:00]
B
Well, I think maybe it's 50.
- [46:02]
A
50.
- [46:02]
B
I did shows in Denver where a man heckled me, and I, like, really laid into him. And then I, like, asked him his name. He told me his name. And then maybe like 15 minutes later, I was like, hey, Bob, how you doing back there? And then this lady was like, bob left. And I was like, yeah. Then we all chanted, bob left. So it was like we still roasted him after he left. And that was lovely. But, yeah, I think it's always up.
- [46:27]
A
Bob deserved it.
- [46:28]
B
Bob deserved it.
- [46:29]
A
When did you feel in your career that you sort of were like, okay, I'm a successful comedian.
- [46:37]
B
Hmm. That's funny. I don't know. I know. So, like, logically, I know I'm successful, but sometimes in my soul, I'm like, gotta do more, gotta keep going, gotta work harder. But then sometimes I'm like, wait, you're doing fine. Why don't you enjoy this a little bit?
- [46:58]
A
Yeah. Where do you think the sort of. The work harder. That part of it comes from?
- [47:04]
B
My mom being like, be the best. Be the best at what you do. And then it feels like the entertainment industry or being creative is like, how do you monetize this creativity? Like, I love making bowls. I'm gonna open an Etsy store. As opposed to I make bowls every now and again, and they're propped up in my house, and they look beautiful. But I feel like we're all like, we have this hustle culture, and I don't think it's a bad thing. I also don't think it's a good thing. I am pretty indifferent on it. But for me, I know sometimes I need to take a step back and be like, hey, I have done a lot of things. You're doing okay.
- [47:42]
A
Yeah.
- [47:42]
B
But that's a hard thing to say to myself and to believe.
- [47:46]
A
Yeah. Do you think some of that is because you're a woman, or is it just that? Or we're American? Because they think that's a very American. Right.
- [47:55]
B
I think it's more American than woman based. Yeah. Because as people have given me my flowers, like, as a woman, like, oh, first black woman to be nominated for an Emmy.
- [48:10]
A
Four Emmys, I think.
- [48:12]
B
More than four.
- [48:12]
A
More than four. Okay. Sorry.
- [48:15]
B
But I don't know the actual number. Isn't that crazy?
- [48:17]
A
Okay, well, we need to find out. We need to find out.
- [48:20]
B
One was for. There was a bunch for Nailed it, and then one for my special, and that was like, I love doing Nailed it. And I feel like it's a. Like, I feel very listened to. I feel like it is my humor. I feel like it's a lot of my jokes. Everyone collaborated with me, but my special was like, my baby. And to be nominated for that truly felt so cool. That, like, something that was my baby, my vision in my head that I spilled out, and people were like, no, we liked it here. Like, that just felt so cool.
- [48:56]
A
So the. The end of the show, I ask everybody.
- [49:00]
B
Yeah.
- [49:00]
A
If they are working on reclaiming anything, and it could be, you know, part of your identity.
- [49:07]
B
I thought about this on my way over.
- [49:08]
A
Yes.
- [49:10]
B
And I was like, I want to reclaim my body. And I was like, no, I don't need to. I like my body. It's. I have a very good relationship with it, so I'm gonna reclaim my health. So I have type 2 diabetes, and I had high blood pressure and high cholesterol and stuff and a little touch of sleep apnea. And I've just been working really hard on figuring out how to not have those things anymore. And I'm on Manjaro. I don't. It is what it is. Yeah. I've just been trying to reclaim my health, and I have lost, like, a little bit of weight, and sometimes people will comment on it, and I don't love that because I'm not doing it for aesthetics. I. I liked how I looked fatter. I thought my face looked real cherub, like, and adorable.
- [49:56]
A
It's still adorable.
- [49:57]
B
Hey, cherub. Like, thank you. And that's why I drove here, because I wanted to hear that. But, like, my butt was bigger, and I just, like, I felt more confident at that size. I feel less confident, smaller, but, like, my numbers are better. So I'm like, well, that's what's important. I would like to live for as long as I'm supposed to, and I don't want the things wrong with my body to make my life harder.
- [50:24]
A
Right.
- [50:25]
B
And it sucks, and I don't like it, but I'm reclaiming my health.
- [50:29]
A
Add a girl. Add a girl. Aw. Thank you so much.
- [50:34]
B
Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was delightful.
- [50:38]
A
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF media studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin, and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker, and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffitt. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candace Manriquez Wren and Emily Feldbrink, and executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin o' Flaherty and Marshall Louie.