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- [00:00]
Monica Lewinsky
Wondery subscribers can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:20]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I think about what a privilege it is to be alive, to be able to eat whatever we want, to be able to bathe or smell whatever we want, to be able to have these choices. What a crime not to run after all of them and just inhale all of it. What a crime not to. We're the only species that does this for joy.
- [00:45]
Sleep Number Announcer
Why choose a sleep number Smart bed?
- [00:47]
Monica Lewinsky
Can I make my sight softer?
- [00:49]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [00:52]
Sleep Number Announcer
Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now max out your savings. The more you buy, the more you save on beds, bases and more. Plus, get free home delivery on any smart bed with bass limited time. Check it out at a sleep number store near you or@sleepnumber.com today.
- [01:18]
Monica Lewinsky
Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Peloton. Let yourself run Lift Flow and go explore the new peloton cross training tread +@1peloton.com Richard, I am so thrilled to welcome you to Reclaiming.
- [01:37]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Thank you.
- [01:38]
Monica Lewinsky
Thank you for being here.
- [01:39]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
What a treat. No, really, what a treat. I'm so grateful and so honored and thank you. It's so nice to see you and so nice to be here.
- [01:45]
Monica Lewinsky
Thank you. You too. I was thinking about when we first met. Now I think. I think it was in 2021 on Victoria Jackson's rant. Right. Victoria's been on the show for a spiritual retreat.
- [02:00]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I remember it very well.
- [02:01]
Monica Lewinsky
And I think it was Elise Lonan who kind of actually introduced as our good friend Elise Lohnen, who's the writer and also has the podcast pulling the thread.
- [02:11]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, I think she did introduce us that day, that first day I met you and I remember you sat in the back on your own and I thought, oh, that's not. That's not good. And so I remember. I think, oh, I need. Maybe Monica needs a friend here.
- [02:24]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [02:25]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so that's sort of how we started.
- [02:27]
Monica Lewinsky
I've sort of. It was a bigger group than I had anticipated. And so I think I didn't. I just didn't totally feel safe yet.
- [02:36]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Also a really intimidating thing to walk into where you have to sit and talk to in front of a lot of people who none of us Know.
- [02:45]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, exactly. So. But I do remember then. Well, of course, when I met you, I have a very broken gaydar. So I was like, oh, he's cute, you know.
- [02:55]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Wow, it's really broken.
- [02:56]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, it is. Actually, there's a really funny story from when I was in college and I had a. I took a Shakespeare class and my partner in this Shakespeare class project, he worked at a bar at a restaurant in la. And so I was like, all semester long I had a crush on him. And so for my birthday, my mom, an aunt, like, okay, we'll take you and a few of your friends to this restaurant. And we walk in and I was like, there he is behind the bar. And everyone's like, where? There's just a gay guy there. And I was like, what do you mean, gay guy? You know, and so he was gay. So like an entire semester and. But. Yeah, but. So I remember thinking that. And then you gave me this incredible Flamingo Estate. It was like a bath thing. That smells like the earth after the petrichor.
- [03:49]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, Smells like the earth after rain.
- [03:50]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, it was so beautiful. That was great. And then I. You were so sweet. I had Covid later and you sent me one of your farm boxes. And then the next time I saw you, I was also sick and. And you brought me the Manuka honey, which has become one of my more expensive habits, but very well worth it. And so. And I was, you know, like, you have this incredible company in Flamingo Estate and company or lifestyle just doesn't even. It just doesn't even totally feel right because it's ethereal and this goddess energy and gorgeous and sensuous and the beautiful smells. How do you talk about Flamingo Estate? What it is if, you know, someone doesn't know?
- [04:35]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Well, you know, it's my home first and foremost. We live there together, Javier and I, and with our goats and our dogs and our chickens and it was always my home. And the. The genesis of the. The whole very wild, improbable story was that the very first week of COVID way back then, five years ago, I. I met a farmer who was going to lose her farm because her vegetables went to the restaurants and the restaurants, you remember, they all closed.
- [05:06]
Capital One Announcer
Yeah.
- [05:07]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And I had spent my whole life in advertising until then, and we should talk about that. And I thought, no, we can. We can sell stuff. And my mum and dad are farmers in Australia, so they. And they had lost their farm when I was a kid. And so I was like, no, let's make. We're not gonna. Hell no, let's, let's help you out.
- [05:23]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [05:24]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so we started selling her vegetables in the, the car park of where we are. And I really thought she must have thought we could sell 12 boxes, you know, and that first Friday we sold 300, the next Friday 600 and 1200. And just overnight. Yeah, you know, we had 50 trucks at some point.
- [05:44]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh my gosh. I mean, these farm boxes, these are, let's just be clear, these are not just like a little box of vegetables. These are extraordinary curated. Like magic from the earth, right?
- [05:57]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
No, but also just like, also just like the old fashioned way of how people should be eating food. And so. And one farm became two, became 10, became 50, became now almost 150 farms.
- [06:09]
Monica Lewinsky
Wow. That you, that you work with.
- [06:11]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
That we work with. So this accidental vegetable machine that started was just such an incredible journey in Covid when everyone was sort of getting small and hunkering down and we were getting really big. And the same week that that happened, I met Harvey, who's my partner, I met Elise. All these people who fundamentally rocked my whole world happened that week. And my old business fell apart. And so this crumbling of this old, you know, two decade long career into something completely new, which was such a gift actually. And then, yeah. And then, then maybe about halfway through that process, thought, okay, we could make more money from everyone if instead of selling their vegetables, we make other things from them. And so that's how we started making all the other stuff. The hand cream and the hand wash and the candles and all the shampoo.
- [07:05]
Monica Lewinsky
And all that stuff and the oils and the, the persimmon vinegar and the little peppery strawber stories.
- [07:11]
Capital One Announcer
Yeah.
- [07:12]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And what, what a joy. You know, and I talk about this a lot about this return to. We have to return back to sort of simple, old fashioned, time honored ways of doing things. And there's a real crisis going on. I think there's a crisis of imagination going on. There's a crisis of.
- [07:32]
Monica Lewinsky
That's interesting. Say, say more on that. What, what is that? You know, that sort of crisis of imagination. How do you see, see that manifesting in the world?
- [07:42]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I think the 90% of the world's data was created in the last two years. And the amount of, the sheer volume of information now we're getting and the speed at which we're getting, I think it's a six fold increase in speed since COVID So this tidal wave of, of abundance. But we're more unhappy than ever.
- [08:03]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [08:03]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so, and I think part of it is we're all Just in love with our telephones. We're just drunk on our telephones. And so this. Yes.
- [08:12]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, I think it's that way of the connection, in a sense, you.
- [08:18]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Know, and then I think the other interesting thing I think is the. We also have reality fatigue, this idea that, you know, most people, especially younger people, will prefer an influencer rather than a traditional celebrity. And so in an effort for all of our social media to get more authentic. Mm. We've sort of lost the ability to dream and that ability to have wonder. And so. And I think the garden is one of the last places that gives us that wonder. Still and true, like, you know, timeless wisdom. And so my last book was all. Was all about that. Just about.
- [08:56]
Monica Lewinsky
It's written on the Coming alive, being alive.
- [08:59]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
The guide to becoming alive. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think. And on the. On the side of all of our boxes and all of our stuff, it always says, mother Nature's the last great luxury house. And I truly, with my full heart, believe that. That. That is now my life's work. Is that idea.
- [09:16]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [09:16]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And treating all those farmers and all those vegetables, all that stuff, you know, with the most respect possible.
- [09:22]
Monica Lewinsky
But you. You really feel that?
- [09:24]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I hope so.
- [09:25]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, and this is coming from someone who doesn't cook, so. But anytime I've gotten, you know, either you've sent me a box or someone's gifted me a box, I'm like, I have got to become the person who. You know, em. This more. Because you do feel the difference and the energy.
- [09:43]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Thank you.
- [09:44]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, you really do. Of just the. The beauty, the care that there's. There is that. I know it may sound a little strange, but there is that sort of relationship of respect.
- [09:56]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes. There's a reciprocity there. I think also the. The thing. Having spent my whole life in luxury advertising and marketing, all that stuff, I think the other thing which was interesting to me was especially coming from rural Australia, where my parents were farmers, really understanding the. The real grind of farming, and then running as fast and as far away from that as I could to New York, and then coming back into it and thinking, okay, how do we put culture into horticulture again? And how do we. If I want people to think differently about the environment, we have to show it to them differently. And so, you know, Pamela's. Pamela Anderson's pickles, Pam's pickles that just came out. Or LeBron James's honey, or like, any of the wackadoodle things we've been doing and we've Done so many over the years now just to, like, get people out of that, like, very earnest, very, you know, farming, you know, and so I want to make it sexy, right, and then have, you know, on the backside of that do some, like, really important impact work.
- [10:56]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. Something I. I really came to understand differently in a lot of the spiritual, energetic, resonance work that I've done is really creative energy, right. That it's sort of, you know, that especially in, I think for me, some of the years that I really struggled around not having had kids and really having wanted to have kids, you know, and this idea of.
- [11:22]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I've struggled with that too.
- [11:23]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, did you want kids? Do you want. Do you want kids?
- [11:26]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Desperately, actually. And I never.
- [11:27]
Monica Lewinsky
Do you still, you and Harvey.
- [11:29]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, we'd love them. And it was never a dream I thought was possible for me. You know, I never thought, well, at least. And I went to a retreat a week ago with this really interesting British guy, Patrick Connor, and was really, really thinking about sort of early childhood trauma and how that manifests in your day now. And it's really a complete light bulb went off when I was there around being five or six and knowing I was not like the other boys, and then slowly really understanding that I was never going to have the traditional wife or children, that those options were just never open to me. And certainly as a growing up and where I did in Australia, there was no sort of role model for anything different than that. So for me, it was, I think, a real shock to my nervous system as a young boy. Did.
- [12:29]
Monica Lewinsky
Did you know, like, when you're saying you're different from the other boys? Did you know what that was like? So, I mean, being gay was, like, talked about, so that was like something you understood.
- [12:41]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Not really. I think we had a reference for sort of, you know, flight attendants and, you know, actors or something, you know, the stereotype. But when I was really young, I think it was just. I remember this one day when I. We were in a very small country school and my mom had come, which was very rare, had come to see us during the day, and I was sort of playing with the girls in one corner of the schoolyard and all the boys are playing rugby. And I remember feeling such shame that I was not like those boys. And I don't think I even had them. I remember it so well, but I don't think I had the capacity to understand what that meant. And then we were. My brother and I, both were. I have a twin brother who both were like, just very happy, magical, gentle boys. And my mom and dad sent us to a school that had sort of a military cadet component, I think, for high school, I think, maybe just sort of toughen us up a little bit. And we were just bullied endlessly there, just ferociously. And. And that sort of, I think, manifested in different ways as an adult now in terms of work ethic and throwing myself into work and things like that before this new chapter. But then also, like, a lot of real latent rage when my cousins would pop out another baby and I'd be like. And this is the real sense of, like, hopelessness, because no matter what I could do with my life, how however big I could build my business, however many fancy friends I had, it would never. Would never be able to do that. This, like, real sense of hopelessness, if that makes sense.
- [14:16]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, absolutely.
- [14:17]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so really, like, thinking about, like, today, like, you know, how that. How that moved me forward, and when I met you on that retreat, that period of time with Elise was like, the first time I got still and calm and was like, I need to, like, scratch all this away to get down to it so I can just get back to that little boy again.
- [14:40]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. It's so interesting because my experience of you was that you had already evolved past that. Now. We didn't have, like, hours, long, deep conversations there, so maybe if we had, I would have understood differently. But it's just. It's really interesting to me to hear you say that, because you presented differently, you know.
- [15:02]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Interesting. Yeah, no, I think that was definitely on the tail end of it, probably. But, yeah, definitely in it.
- [15:07]
Monica Lewinsky
It's a. It is. It's. There is that that creative energy and. And. And it sounds like you've, you know, certainly done this with the business, and maybe you and Harvey will have kids.
- [15:18]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [15:19]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, I think for me, it was really tying together the, you know, creativity of. Sure. Making. Creating a baby inside your body or creating a baby, you know, in a relationship with a. With a surrogate and a, you know, whatever. Whatever. All the. Many, many different ways that people do it. Right. But that. That was a creative energy. Healing was a creative energy because I was creating a newer version of myself. Right. And creating things that you're doing out in the world, whether that's product or ideas, that it's all the same energy. And I just. I hadn't really put that all together for myself, I think, until probably about A little over 10 years ago, you know, just starting to just realize, like, it is that. It's that mother nature moving force.
- [16:18]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [16:19]
Monica Lewinsky
You know, that sort of.
- [16:20]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I feel like I didn't really get it together until I started Flamingo. And I just threw myself with a different. From a different place, a different vibrational energy into just this power of creating things. I think we made 150 products in our first two years, you know. Oh, my.
- [16:37]
Monica Lewinsky
In your first two years? I actually was really surprised to realize that it's only five years. Five years. Because I felt like, oh, I'm just the loser who didn't know it existed. Which happens to me often. I'm sometimes a late adopter to things, but that's. That's amazing.
- [16:55]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah. It was a spirit of energy and also a time that I don't think it could ever happen again. Had Covid not happened.
- [17:02]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [17:03]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Had my old business not crumbled, had my old. My whole life fell apart. The beginning of COVID you know, lost a relationship, lost a business, just everything fell apart. And then going back into. Into the garden, not being on a plane, not being consumed with work, not being in meetings, and just thought, okay, I need to wake myself up. I need to stop sleepwalking through life. I need to have a hot shower. I need to get in my. My body. I need to eat again. I was in fashion marketing my whole life, so I always felt fat. I never enjoyed food. I never really, like, indulged. Indulgence is a. The word indulgence comes from the word to forgive. To forgive yourself. Yes. To be indulgent is to forgive yourself. And so I wanted to be indulgent.
- [17:47]
Monica Lewinsky
Wait, wait, wait. Wa. I need to think about that for a second. That's really interesting to me. That is so interesting. Especially because we have such a complicated relationship with that word guilt.
- [18:00]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes. Yes. It's laden with so much guilt. And it's not. It's really about forgiving yourself and enjoying the fruits of your labor. And so this idea of, let me be indulgent, let me eat everything again, let me drink everything, let me smell everything.
- [18:15]
Monica Lewinsky
Be connected.
- [18:16]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes. Because I think life. And this is part of what I talk about all the time. For me, the definition of success is all of my senses, like, fully engaged, Smelling everything, touching everything, tasting everything. There's nothing sexy about restriction. And so really, like, committed, that that's what Flamingo would be about. And my. And personally, like, what I would be about that I would never be about making myself feel small or act small. And so really, like, indulging in as many smells and tastes and scents as I could. And it really. And it woke me up. It completely changed my Life. Right. And so it wasn't so much that I didn't care if people bought our products or not, but we. I. We were sort of just like. We were not looking left or right. We had our heads down. We're making stuff I wanted to use and Harvey wanted to use every day, and people kind of felt that, I think.
- [19:05]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [19:06]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And then the business just doubled and doubled and doubled and doubled and doubled. But we're still. It's. Hey, it's still our home. And we. You've been there. We. It's our little house on the top of a hill. And so it's.
- [19:16]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, it is to call it a little. I mean, it is so magical there. And you just. It's sort of one of those places that I think everybody's been to something like this where you go into an area, whether it's a land or a house or a building, and you just feel transported. And so I think that's kind of a feeling that you have there. And part of that is, you know, whatever you're growing on the land. But a lot of that is also what I think you and Harvey have created energetically. Like, when you walk in and you just. You sort of feel held. You feel held by the smells. You feel held by whatever you're offered to drink or eat or sit on, and the texture, you know, it is. It's a really magical place.
- [20:06]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And I care deeply about hospitality, about the way people feel.
- [20:10]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [20:10]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And I spent, you know, my 20 years in my last career going to bad parties and standing in a room and doing small talk and. And an open bar that was sort of kind of sloppy. And I was like, endless amounts of those sorts of corporate things. And so I said, I want this property to be. To really feel. I want my home to be a place where people come and feel like Alice down the rabbit hole, and you really feel, like, really taken care of. Right.
- [20:35]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, and then there's. There's kind of the bonkers backstory, Right.
- [20:39]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
That it used to be prolific porn studio.
- [20:41]
Monica Lewinsky
Exactly.
- [20:42]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [20:44]
Monica Lewinsky
So talk about, you know, sexy, sensual energy. It's there, too. I mean, I don't know that that's.
- [20:51]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
No, but, you know, it's interesting that the property did have this really, really deeply sexual past. It was at porn studio Electric 65 years. And that stuff's easy to joke about, but I think the thing about it was it was also a place of. For artists and for misfits and for creative people and on the fringe. And it was a hedonistic playground for so long and it fell into disrepair by the time I had got it. But in a different way. I think we brought that hedonism back. Another word I love. That's not a bad word. We always have said pleasure is a human right and we, we constantly censor up our ability to have pleasure. And so back to indulgence. And so I think we brought that back. Foreign.
- [21:41]
Monica Lewinsky
Is brought to you by Audible.
- [21:42]
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- [22:14]
Monica Lewinsky
Winner Kerry Washington returns as Dr. Virginia Edwards in Audible's heart pounding supernatural thriller the Prophecy Season 2. Picture this, a mother on the run protecting her miracle child from a sinister cult leader who'll stop at nothing to find them. But Virginia Edwards is no ordinary mom. Haunted by visions and guided by an ancient prophecy, she's about to discover her true power as both protector and chosen one. With an all star cast, this supernatural thriller will keep you on the edge of your seat and wondering when everything's at stake, who can you really trust? Evil is rising. Time is running out. Don't miss Kerry Washington in Audible's must listen event of the year. Some stories change you forever. This one just might save humanity. Start listening to The Prophecy Season 2 today at audible.com the Prophecy 2 or wherever you get your podcasts. I just, I think we're, we're seeing more and more in life and you know, as, as we talk more about the mind, body, emotional spirit connection, energetic connection. Right. I think when we have those moments where we feel like everything is in sync. Right. It's in flow.
- [23:43]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [23:44]
Monica Lewinsky
Like all of us, that great moments when that happens. Yes, exactly. But then you realize when you're talking about the phone or the ways we actually feel disconnected because we're only lighting up certain parts of ourselves. You know, as I've gotten more in the last few years and I think a lot of people have just, you know, understanding the nervous system and polyvagal theory and somatic therapy and really recognizing, I think for me, I talk a lot on the podcast about just the different ways that I recognize how disconnected from my body I was.
- [24:19]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes, me too.
- [24:20]
Monica Lewinsky
And am still sometimes too, you know, but.
- [24:23]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And completely out of alignment. Yeah, I was completely and totally out of alignment.
- [24:27]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. But you've talked a little about your past career, too. So just you left. Rural. I can't say that word. Rural. That was. Sarah Silverman was on, and her partner's name, Rory. It was the same. It's like rural Rory. So I had Bell's palsy in 2021 also. So sometimes some words are a little hard for me to still say.
- [24:50]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Country Australia. Lep. Country Australia.
- [24:52]
Monica Lewinsky
That's correct.
- [24:52]
Capital One Announcer
Okay.
- [24:52]
Monica Lewinsky
Country Australia.
- [24:54]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And as a young kid, you know, lep. When I was a teenager.
- [24:56]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, okay.
- [24:57]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah. As quickly as I could.
- [24:58]
Monica Lewinsky
And. And London and New York. Right.
- [25:00]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
London and Italy, Sweden. I moved around and then got to New York and opened an agency, a creative agency, when I was 28.
- [25:08]
Uber Eats Announcer
Wow.
- [25:09]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Then I did nothing but work and work and work. And I. And I spent you know, more. More hours of my life in the four walls of that office than anywhere. Every weekend and every late.
- [25:20]
Monica Lewinsky
Did I read that one year you.
- [25:21]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Were sort of like that jet was number one customer. That's right. Yeah. Yes. I mean, yeah. Isn't that wild?
- [25:27]
Monica Lewinsky
That is bonkers.
- [25:28]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah. Because I did so much travel for work. I was always working. And I think I was also. And I hadn't joined those dots until very recently, but I think also so desperate to prove, you know, to make my parents proud and to not be the gentle little soft kid at school and just like build something big. So I was just consumed with.
- [25:45]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [25:45]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Consumed with work.
- [25:46]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [25:47]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so. And my whole identity, my self esteem, my image of myself, everything was tied to that business. Everything. And so when it. So then when Covid hit also this time, I was working very hard, very lonely, really disconnected from my body, but not very healthy. Not, you know, not. Didn't feel very sexy. I was just sort of in this hamster wheel. I didn't know how to get out of it. I had visions that one day I'd sell it and I could go do something else. I just, like, didn't know. But also, who am I to complain when I'm making good money? And my, you know, my parents just, like all the.
- [26:22]
Monica Lewinsky
The stuff, all the boxes were ticked.
- [26:24]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Everything was ticked, but not the big one of like, are you really happy?
- [26:27]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [26:28]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so Covid just spectacularly crumbled it. We just. I remember getting a call from one of the offices and they said, oh, we're going to send the stuff home because of this virus. And I was like, what virus? And that was like, Two weeks later, we were. We were all working from home, and then. And I could just feel the weight with huge payroll, and I could feel the weight of payroll was going to crumble the business. And that was my worst fear, my absolute worst fear, that I wouldn't be able to pay the rent on our fancy offices. And so it got delivered at my feet, this amazing opportunity. I was so devastated at the time. And then. Oh, my God, I'm so happy it happened.
- [27:09]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. Wait, how did you metabolize? Like, here you're saying your worst fear is not being able to pay the rent on the office and take care of your employees and all those things? And that moment happens. How did you metabolize that? Did you sit in it? Did you pivot? Did the pivot appear?
- [27:34]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I really sat in the garden. I was home in here at Flamingo, and I just started taking long, hot showers and long, hot baths and cooking dinner. And it was more, just maybe for the first time, being, like, with myself and quite present. So there was no big dramatic moment. It was more, as we all remember, it was a bit of a confusing time for everyone. But I. Something started to come alive.
- [28:01]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [28:01]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Slowly and in this funny. Like, funny. I write about this in my book. When I had to go back to New York to pack up the office. We had a huge library in the office, and there was a book open on the table with a quote that said, and forgive me, I can't remember who it's from now. Who said, now my bon has burned down. I can see the moon. Oh, wow. And I thought, oh, well, this is a God. That's gorgeous. A sign.
- [28:28]
Uber Eats Announcer
Wow.
- [28:29]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And so, really. So then I got to see the moon. Yeah.
- [28:33]
Monica Lewinsky
Wow, that's really beautiful. Yeah, it's interesting. So I was living in New York at the start of the pandemic, too, and my whole family's out here, and I would like. I just started dating somebody who was also like, come out, come out. You know? And then as things unfolded, I ended up having to move out here. And I, too, went back to New York sort of in this. I mean, I don't know if we're talking about the same period. I mean, I went back, literally, JFK felt like a ghost town.
- [29:02]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes. Yes.
- [29:03]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, it was so strange, and it was such a strange moment. I remember walking back into the apartment and it feeling like this. Just an energetic time capsule because I traveled for work a lot, so I had been gone before for extensive periods, but it was just. There was an eeriness to it. You Know, and it was like, there were the flowers in the vase that the new guy had sent before I left. And, you know, just that whole. And I remember I had actually. When I left New York for la, I ended up changing my flight and leaving a day earlier because I started to panic. They were gonna close the bridges, and so I wouldn't be able to get to the airport. And so there was just. There was a speed with which I left that was even more. And I remember wearing a mask in the airport, and most people weren't. My mom was, like, super ahead of the curve with COVID so I had masks and wipes and everything well, before everybody was scrambling for it. So it's.
- [30:13]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I remember this one vivid story. The. At this wonderful colleague working in the orchard, and he said, look at the. Look at the stone fruit. Look at the plums. They have to drop their leaves in winter so that they can come back stronger in spring. They have to drop their leaves. He's like, it cannot always be summer. You have to drop your leaves as well, and you need to sleep now and come back stronger in spring. And I remember that metaphor was really like the start of many that we. We sort of took from the garden. And I remember it so well. I think about that one often about this, as we're all pressured to always do more. This idea of, like, drop your leaves. It's great to drop your leaves.
- [30:54]
Monica Lewinsky
How do you find the balance then? You know, I'm sort of, like, hearing the wisdom in that. And also 150 products in two years. And the simpleness is it because there's so much alignment that it doesn't feel like grind in a way. It. I. I'm just so curious.
- [31:19]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, no, it's a. It's such a good question. And now that the. Now that we've really got quite big, it's something that weighs on me a little bit. Like, how do we not retreat back to some of those old patterns, you know? And so I think it's. The energy's different, and we have an amazing, amazing group of people who love what they do around us, which is great. And. And, you know, people would come to me, my whole career with big problems for big companies, big brands. In my old life, and whether it was Apple or whether it was Hermes or whoever it was, they would come with different problems. But at the end of the day, I always knew they were asking me the same question, which was, help us act small again. We're too big to be vulnerable. We're too big to be funny. We're too big to be silly. We're too big to be. And so. And it happens to people. People and companies. Yeah. And so they couldn't get out of their own way because they. They didn't know how to act small. And so I think for me, it's always now I gotta act small personally and professionally, like the business as well. Not too many people, not too many layers, not too many meetings. We're going to be very decisive. We're going to be really quick with everything that we do and we're just going to be nimble.
- [32:35]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. Well, I can attest to that. Right. Because so. So for anyone who's listening, we have a gorgeous candle that's going on the table here. And for anyone who's watching that, I reached out to you not very long.
- [32:50]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Ago and said, two weeks, not even two weeks ago.
- [32:54]
Monica Lewinsky
I was like, I have this crazy idea because October is Bullying Prevention Month. And so I just thought I had. Well, I've just seen that you've done these incredible collaborations with people with Evan Funke and Pamela Anderson. And I think you were mentioning LeBron James and Ed Ruscha.
- [33:12]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Ed Ruscha and Katie, one of my.
- [33:13]
Monica Lewinsky
Favorite artists, who's amazing.
- [33:15]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [33:15]
Monica Lewinsky
Such a wonderful human.
- [33:17]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [33:17]
Monica Lewinsky
And so I thought, okay, well, I have this idea. Maybe if we can't do it for this year, we could start planning for next year. Because for many years I would do these big campaigns that I would build with usually video PSAs that I did with BBDO New York or Mischief. And I didn't do one last year and I didn't do one this year. And so I was like, do you think there's a world where we could do a candle collab where some of the proceeds could go to these organizations?
- [33:49]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
All the proceeds.
- [33:50]
Monica Lewinsky
I was just gonna say. Nothing says more about you than you were like, no, all the proceeds for this month. And so here we are. This is gonna be our candle that is gonna. That people be able to. I don't wanna sound like, like I'm hawking anything, so.
- [34:07]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
But no, no, that's hochet. All the money's going away to someone.
- [34:12]
Monica Lewinsky
To four charities. Right. So there are two in the U.S. which are the Tyler Clementi foundation and the Hedrick Martin Institute. Then in the uk where they have Anti Bullying Week, which is the second week in November, is the Diana Award has this anti bullying program. And then in your home country, one of my favorite organizations around the world is Project Rocket. Those are the organizations that the. All the proceeds will be split.
- [34:38]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Don't you think there's like, this. I feel like our job is to keep our eyes open because you, I was with. That's my only job, is to keep our eyes open and look for these signs. Because Elise took me to this workshop. We were talking about bullying. It's something I never thought about, never talked about, never really dug into. You call and you're like, can we do a bullying a candle or something for. To, you know, to raise some money for anti bullying? And I. It just felt like there's this invisible cord pulling us all along, and we have to keep our eyes open for these things. So as soon as you said it, I was like, hell, yes, we're gonna do it right away. We're not waiting to. Next year. We're gonna dive right in.
- [35:14]
Monica Lewinsky
And you and your team have just. I can't even believe we're. We're in this incredible camellia blossoming. Camellia.
- [35:21]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Well, I was writing. I'm writing my new book, which is.
- [35:24]
Monica Lewinsky
Do you have a title?
- [35:25]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
It's called the Victory Garden. When you. When you contacted me, I was literally. I was sitting by. I was sitting next to the. In the garden next to a tree, writing a chapter on camellias.
- [35:34]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, wow.
- [35:35]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And camellias are such an interesting metaphor because they. I actually was writing this as you were texting me was. You know, they're not like other flowers. They don't grow in. They don't flower in summer. They don't like the sun. They don't need the pollinators. They're. They're not the quarterbacks. They're gentle. They like the shade. They find their own way to bloom. That's not like any other flower. They bloom on their own terms. They bloom at the end of the year when nothing else does. They're sort of the gentle theater kid of the garden. You know, they're really this graceful.
- [36:08]
Monica Lewinsky
Yes.
- [36:08]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
They're not. They're not the guy playing rugby. They're not the sunflower. They're not the big, big, bold pollinator flowers. And so I was writing this chapter about them, about camellias. And I thought, wouldn't it be great if we could do a camellia candle? And then here we are. We got it right. I mean, it's just. It's a beautiful smell. It is.
- [36:27]
Monica Lewinsky
It's gorgeous.
- [36:28]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And the history of camellia, this area, the world, is really interesting because the. It was really popularized by American Japanese farmers here. And, you know, one point, before World War II, 75% of the food in Los Angeles was grown By Japanese farmers.
- [36:46]
Monica Lewinsky
Really?
- [36:46]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah. Huge impact on our food system. And then.
- [36:50]
Monica Lewinsky
Sorry, let me interrupt. Are camellias a. Japanese?
- [36:53]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Chinese and Japanese, yeah.
- [36:54]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, interesting.
- [36:55]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Asian.
- [36:56]
Monica Lewinsky
Asian.
- [36:58]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
But they really propagated the. They fueled the surge of them here in this country. Then World War II happens. The. Those farmers are put in internment camps. Their farm, they're bullied into selling their farms at a fraction of their car of their worth. And then for many years sort of faced difficult hardships. So the. The camellia journey itself is one that also had some real struggles. And so it's on many fronts. This idea of a camellia candle is very significant and it's a really interesting plant. It has a very interesting story and. And it's got a great smile.
- [37:37]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, maybe we should. Maybe we should figure out a fifth organization that somehow connects to that history. You know, this sort of Asian farming here. History. I don't know.
- [37:49]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting to think about how things. How things get to where they are.
- [37:54]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, I didn't know. And you know, if you feel sort of comfortable talking about it a bit more. I didn't know that you had been bullied a lot as a kid and then. And it wasn't until you said with the candle that you had experienced a lot of bullying. And so you were saying before that that. Was it because you were from rural Australia? Rural Australia, or was it because the other boys, I'm assuming, was boys who bullied you? Not that girls don't bully, of course, but the other boys had like, that they had sensed you were gay, and that was not okay with them. Okay, so it was.
- [38:35]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, it was all that name calling as a little kid, you know, faggot this, sissy that you. Whatever. And it was honestly something I never really ever talked about. I never really shared it. It was not something that I on the surface ever carried around or. Or really discussed. It's not. But it wasn't until recently I started to think, oh, how has that manifested in. In me as an adult? And one of the most interesting things. Other mutual friend, Scott Sternberg. He and I both have had a complicated history with investors and raising money, trying to raise capital to build a business, dealing with those guys. That sort of VC guy, bro energy, I found really difficult. Difficult and I found really tough. Sometimes being in those meetings and all those pitches and all those, those. Those moments when I've been looking for funding, it's just like irked me. I couldn't. I just don't like those conversations. And I really think Some of it is because that. That's a bit of a residue of me feeling a trigger, of me feeling like, oh, I'm also on this sort of like broy, you know, hyper masculine finance world, which is not the world I was ever, you know, previously in. And so it was a real unlock around, oh, this is why that. This is why I act that way. I also think in some ways, I really think some ways as a kid, I think the bullies were the strong people and I was the weak person. And so I think as an adult, I've recruited the bully. I think I have looked for people to work in my businesses in senior positions who are tougher and louder and more aggressive than me. I've recruited them subconsciously because I want the bully to take care of me in a way. And so I think now, really, now that I'm on the front of this business, I'm like, oh, I gotta, like, step into those shoes and like, not camouflage myself. Not like, look for someone else to do the. To be the bad cop at work or to be the. The. I've got to be the one to bring all of me into all those roles.
- [40:39]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Which doesn't maybe doesn't sound like a big deal to people, but it's a. It was a massive unlock for how we can run a happy business.
- [40:47]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [40:47]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
It's not like now that we have a. We have a very large team now, I want to make sure that they are happy in a really, like, genuine non. Corporate in a way that feels really led by joy and, and gentle, you know, strong leadership. But. Yeah, with soft power.
- [41:05]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. Soft power. Yeah, exactly. What. What do you mean? I'm not sure I totally understand when you say sort of like you would bring the bully in.
- [41:14]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [41:14]
Monica Lewinsky
So you would hire someone who had.
- [41:16]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [41:17]
Monica Lewinsky
A kind of bullying energy because they would. Because it felt familiar to you or.
- [41:23]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Maybe because it felt like strength to me.
- [41:27]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [41:28]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [41:28]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay. Oh, interesting. Yeah, okay.
- [41:31]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
That was my definition of strength.
- [41:32]
Monica Lewinsky
So still. Oh, how interesting. Rather than. I mean, even though the. I think it's such a complicated relationship in terms of bullying because there is that perceived power that someone who engages in bullying behavior has.
- [41:48]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [41:49]
Monica Lewinsky
Because they are able to inflict so much fucking pain on you.
- [41:51]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
100%.
- [41:52]
Monica Lewinsky
And yet at the same time, when you get older, when you're not in that dynamic and you can step out of it, you realize that people who engage in that kind of behavior are doing it because they're weak, because they're not strong enough to recognize what's going on in their own world. Right.
- [42:11]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
And now we have to have grace for that too.
- [42:14]
Monica Lewinsky
Right.
- [42:14]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
We need to know that they're also a product of what they want.
- [42:18]
Monica Lewinsky
It's so hard. It's really hard. It's really. I mean, there's a higher self version of me that can do that.
- [42:26]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah. But on the daily. It's really hard.
- [42:28]
Monica Lewinsky
It's really hard.
- [42:29]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [42:29]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [42:29]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Elise always says I do my best work when I've got my back against the wall, when I'm really like in a corner. And I think that's why I was so good at advertising, because I was always pitching and I was always. Was a competition.
- [42:41]
Monica Lewinsky
I had to win business.
- [42:43]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Win, win, win, win, win. Yes. And then I think the other thing, I just. To round that out, I think that subconsciously, this is all the work Elise and I've been doing recently. Subconsciously, I think the finding those moments of battle in a way, being attracted to those, whether it's like I've got a problem with this or a problem with my neighbor or a problem with that, is sort of. It's so familiar to me to be able to work in that. In that area. So anyway, I just, I like, I love the idea of reprogramming that stuff. Yeah. And I love the idea, like the garden has seasons. I love the idea of a life with different chapters and seasons. And so I really like, I. I love pushing through this stuff now. I love talking about it. I love doing the work. I love thinking about. Had to break some of those cycles.
- [43:29]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah. The world is very much divided in some ways between people who are open to and interested in self exploration.
- [43:39]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [43:39]
Monica Lewinsky
And people who are very close to it. Reclaiming is brought to you by Peloton. My friends were talking to me about that feeling when everything just clicks during a workout. That perfect moment when.
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Monica Lewinsky
Yes. Yes, that.
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- [44:27]
Monica Lewinsky
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- [45:49]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I didn't tell you about my new book. Can I tell you?
- [45:51]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay, yeah. No, I want.
- [45:52]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Reminds me.
- [45:52]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:53]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
It's called the Victory Garden. Do you know what a victory garden is?
- [45:56]
Monica Lewinsky
No, I just assumed it was like something you were making up. But there's a thing, that's a thing in the.
- [46:03]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
So in England started World War I, the government said let's get everyone to plant vegetables in their gardens to win the war. In fact, the posters were posters around London would say every garden is an ammunition plant. And this idea of bringing gardening into like the war machine. So the Americans grabbed it really heavy in World War II and everyone in World War II had a victory garden. And this idea that we have to conserve our energy and get out all of our food so we can send some of it to the troops and we can feed the people in Europe. And like this idea of, of you're not going to go hungry because you have a victory garden. The truth is no one would have gone hungry, but it was a wonderful marketing tool. This idea of like the garden will save you from the enemy, which was Germany or was Japan or whoever the enemy was in those wars. So my thought is what's the. Who's the enemy now? Is it. I think it's, I think convenience is the enemy. I think our lives are getting softer. Life lesson is more shallow, not deeper. They're not getting richer. Things are too easy. And so we're not experiencing things fully. We're always on our phones and I think there's a war against pleasure. And so I think this, this, this book is around how we can real, tangible tools for how we can slow down and have the time to just really, you know, get into our best self. And so that's through the garden, right?
- [47:37]
Monica Lewinsky
So I am terrible, like, in the garden with plants. I had neighbors in New York who were moving, and they gave me their cactus, and I was like, no, no, please don't give me. You can't kill your cactus.
- [47:52]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Did you kill.
- [47:52]
Monica Lewinsky
They said, you can't kill a cactus, Richard. I kid you not. Four days later, that little fucker was dead. I don't know what it is. I just, like, suck the energy out of the. Out of plants and whatever. But. But I think what's interesting about what you're saying because, you know, there's. We see such a spectrum of what people's life experiences are right now, right? And that there is, you know, there's a beauty and a draw to this idea of simplifying and eating cleaner foods and going. Reclaiming how we were. We all existed. Our societies existed this way for a very long time. And yet then you also have people for whom time is a very different kind of luxury because they're working three jobs or they've got a whole bunch of kids. And what's interesting to me is I'm thinking about community gardens or just people finding. How do you find your garden? You know, even when you're living in a big cement building, you just go to the park and you sit with a tree. And so that way, too, of just trying to find all the ways people can find something for themselves in what you're talking about.
- [49:13]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
It was interesting. The last book was. It was 13 interviews.
- [49:19]
Monica Lewinsky
Yes, I know. We were supposed to do one of them. Every time I look at it, like, monica, how did you not make this happen?
- [49:26]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
But it was interesting because all those people is Martha Stewart and Jane Fonda and Jane Goodall and these people who were icons for me, and they all. I asked them all the same question. How do you live a happy life? How. How do you come alive? How do you build a moat around that and really protect your own happiness? And almost without exception, they all said, put your phone down. It was so simple. Martha's like, put your phone down and cook something. Plant something. Jane Goodall said the same thing. They all said the same thing.
- [50:01]
Monica Lewinsky
Not if they'd had my cooking. They would not. Although we make very good Rice Krispie treats.
- [50:07]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Okay. Oh, we could do that together.
- [50:09]
Monica Lewinsky
I love a good Rice Krispie treat. I do it with my niece a lot, and we put food coloring in, and it's very exciting. She's at 7. And she was like, well, I wanna try making rainbow. You know, I wanna put all the colors in the marshmallow. And I was like, well, I think it's probably gonna all turn green, you know. And so. But we did it in a way, and she was seven years old. She goes, my hypothesis worked.
- [50:36]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Just chocolate ones?
- [50:37]
Monica Lewinsky
No, no, just the marshmallow. We put the food coloring. We haven't done chocolate.
- [50:42]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Oh, chocolate.
- [50:43]
Monica Lewinsky
Rice Krispies.
- [50:43]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Be.
- [50:43]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, interesting.
- [50:45]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I'll come up with that one.
- [50:46]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay.
- [50:47]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
That would be great.
- [50:48]
Monica Lewinsky
What's interesting to me about that, too, is that some of what you're saying is not just that sense of, okay, you're planting this thing so you can feed yourself. But I think that the idea that everybody's doing it, that there's that something that's in, like. Because I think some of what happens, right, with our phones is even though we're connecting to people online, and I feel the most connected online when it's either I'm laughing at the same thing other people are laughing at, or I'm making people laugh, which I love to do.
- [51:21]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
That's why I love your Instagram.
- [51:22]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, thank you. Or there's the. I'm getting to connect with someone in a way that I normally. Because I don't get to see them every day, you know, so how I stay connected to my people, you know. But there is that.
- [51:36]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
That.
- [51:37]
Monica Lewinsky
There is that sense of sort of everybody doing the same thing.
- [51:41]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I think the thing that is the intim. The enemy of intimacy is speed. And I think the enemy of ceremony is speed. And you think about what you just said, laughing together. Or it's the reason why people go to church. It's the reason why people have, you know, weddings. It's the reason why we as humans need ceremony in our lives and. And to feel connected to each other when things are so fast. There's no time for ceremony. And so I hope this is one. The victory garden idea is one form of that. But I would say for people who don't have a garden or who don't have time, I think the easiest thing to do is just to set the table and have dinner with someone. That's everyday ceremony that everyone can do. And let's not put it in the microwave and eat in front of the television, but let's sit. Let's sit on a table. Let's sit across from each other and have a. And let's light a candle, have a nice meal. Like, to me, ceremony is under threat and it has to stay because it's a binding glue that keeps us together.
- [52:46]
Monica Lewinsky
That's so interesting. Yeah. I had a really dear friend, Katarina, who very sadly passed away unexpectedly. It'll be 10 years next year. And she would do the most exquisite tablescape like it was, you know, she would do one for my birthday every year. And we didn't know each other for that long, but it was a very dharmic. Like, we met and it was just very dharmic. And it's true, this ceremony of what you would feel of, not just the beauty, but the kind of care and energy and time that went into that, you know, or when you say ceremony that way, I think about a tea ceremony.
- [53:28]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah. You know, but it doesn't need to be that fancy. It can literally just be, let's take a minute to have lunch together, but not in front of our computer, that sort of thing. I think when you look at people, old people that live in, you know, blue zones, who live in Greece and Italy, they. They have dinner together, they drink wine together, they. They spend time together, it doesn't need to be expensive and it doesn't need to be complicated, but all that research around longevity and living, well, a lot of it's got to do with just being around people, being in the moment and being in ceremony with them. And so, like, having a proper dinner is, like, like top of my list. Just, like, I always, like, try to, like, set the table, sit on. Sit in the kitchen with Harvey and just, like, have dinner.
- [54:05]
Monica Lewinsky
I had Christmas. Was it Christmas Eve or actual Christmas?
- [54:09]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I think Christmas Eve, probably.
- [54:11]
Monica Lewinsky
Christmas Eve dinner at Flamingo Estate.
- [54:13]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
We had a nice time that day.
- [54:15]
Monica Lewinsky
It was lovely.
- [54:15]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, it was fun.
- [54:17]
Monica Lewinsky
It was. It was.
- [54:17]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I loved it. I love doing big dinners like that and I love. I love the holidays for that reason.
- [54:22]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [54:23]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I'm going. I told you with the maybe. This is a nice segue. We're going to Bhutan next week.
- [54:28]
Monica Lewinsky
I am so jealous. I really want to go.
- [54:31]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
It's interesting for me, the. So every season I work with a group of farmers in one part of the world and we make a collection of products and again, the money goes back to them. So we did Hawaii, we did Japan recently. This, this. This for the summer box, the summer collection. And so I just started to think about Bhutan as a nice contrast to what's going on in America. This. For those people that don't know Bhutan, in the Himalayas, it's often said to be the world's happiest country, there's a national happiness Registry, you need to check in with the government to make sure you're happy enough. It's forbidden to kill animals. It's 75 of their. Their electricity is all renewable. There's a grace and a deep caring for people there, which I think is remarkable for a country when you consider what's going on here where we're deporting people and we're putting up walls and we're fighting and we're getting more diversive than ever. To go to a place and work with people where their sole mission is to be happy and gentle with each other is amazing. So I'm really excited we go on Saturday.
- [55:47]
Monica Lewinsky
Oh, my gosh.
- [55:47]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Traveling the whole country, meeting all the foam. We've already been doing all the preparation with all the farmers, and now I'm just gonna go meet them in person.
- [55:54]
Monica Lewinsky
Will you track it all also?
- [55:55]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna track. We're gonna really get up into the mountains and. And meet a lot of really interesting people. I'm really excited for it. That, again, I think there's this. The other. Other thing I love and have been chasing for a long time is this idea of radical inconsistency. See, it's such a powerful idea.
- [56:14]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay, wait. Yeah, explain.
- [56:16]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Well, a little bit. All comes back to the same place. I think from the product point of view. Let me start with the products. It's easier, you know, if something's made really well and it's made from a farm or it's made from the earth. It shouldn't be the same every season. Every harvest would be different because of the way it tastes or because of the way it. The sunlight hits the plant or how much rainfall there is. And we celebrate that in wine.
- [56:40]
Monica Lewinsky
Right?
- [56:41]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Why don't we celebrate it in beauty products?
- [56:43]
Uber Eats Announcer
Interesting.
- [56:44]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Like, why aren't we leaning into radical inconsistency? It can always be great, but it doesn't need to be the same. And so it's really interesting from a. A wholesale business point of view, where all the big. All the stores want the same thing every season. And I'm like, no, let's. Like, if it's going to truly be made seasonally, yeah, it shouldn't be the same. But broader than the product piece, I think, is also just in terms of us keeping our eyes open. We need surprise. We need radical inconsistency all the time so that we don't get soft. And so the idea of, like, let's go to Bhutan and do all of our holiday stuff from Bhutan to me just. Is another example of like, let's be wild and surprising and radically inconsistent. Next year we'll do something completely different.
- [57:28]
Monica Lewinsky
What I love about what you're saying is, is if you, you know, I think that there are. There's so many processes, kind of like as humans, that become automated for us. Right? Like driving. Part of the reason we drive the same route is because then we have to pay attention to less.
- [57:45]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [57:46]
Monica Lewinsky
And so what's interesting is that radical inconsistency, you know, actually forces you to be in the moment because something's different.
- [57:58]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
But also, also I think the algorithm, algorithmic driven discovery, which is what we're all victims of now, or participating in now, let's say, where the algorithm knows what we want before we do, where we're getting served up the ads that we're more familiar with, there is a real battle to be surprised because we're not. We're not stumbling across something that is unfamiliar because the algorithm's giving us more of what we like. And so I think there's something really powerful about providing for people. Real radical inconsistency and real surprise and trying to say, because what you said about driving, making less decisions, it's the promise of AI, it's the promise of technology. It's the promise that we'll spend less time with those things and we'll spend more time doing the things we love. But what happens, the research tells us, is we spend more time scrolling, right? I mean, that's more time doing nothing.
- [58:49]
Monica Lewinsky
I mean, think about when we were kids.
- [58:52]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yeah.
- [58:53]
Monica Lewinsky
If someone said, oh, yeah, we didn't even have. Because you're younger than me, so I'm 52. How, how much younger are you?
- [58:59]
Uber Eats Announcer
Or how.
- [59:00]
Monica Lewinsky
Okay, so we're. We're kind of close, right? So there was no cordless phone.
- [59:05]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
No.
- [59:05]
Monica Lewinsky
Right. So the only way. Right. You could talk on the phone was you to go stand next to the fucking wall. Right. So then cordless phone came. But if you had talked to us as a kid, I mean, when we watched the Jetsons, right. I mean, all those kinds of things. But if you had said, oh, yeah, yeah, you're gonna have a phone in.
- [59:23]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Your pocket, could you imagine. Yeah.
- [59:25]
Monica Lewinsky
That you, you would think. And I think the promise of that future technology was you will have more time to do the things you love, to spend it with people you love. And of course, as we know now, it's not. And so it's one of the reasons I'm terrified of AI Me too. And also, I think we certainly have not mastered dignity in humanity. So how to help people, how to ensure dignity for people. I. I don't know, you know, what's going to happen when. When everybody loses their purpose, you know, with AI and stuff like that. So it's.
- [60:00]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
But that's why I keep the ceremony piece. And this is in this war on. My personal war on convenience. Like, convenience is making us less happy, not more happy. And so I think that's just a. For me, it's like, that's my con. My radar is always up, you know, how can I slow down and not rely on convenience? I don't have a microwave. We don't have a tv. Wow. We're just, like, trying really hard to just, like, however we can to just, like, make things a little more difficult, right?
- [60:29]
Monica Lewinsky
No, no.
- [60:29]
Uber Eats Announcer
My flex.
- [60:29]
Monica Lewinsky
But you beat me. My flex is I don't have a TV in the bedroom.
- [60:33]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Okay, that's great.
- [60:33]
Monica Lewinsky
So, you know, and I haven't for a very long time, but when we.
- [60:36]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Do go stay in a hotel and there's a TV in the bedroom, we're like, oh, my God, this is amazing.
- [60:40]
Monica Lewinsky
Right? Room service. Exactly. I know. It's a good. I just want to see. There was this great quote of yours that I really liked from the book, and it's. We are born alive, fully capable of making the most of that privilege, but we continually lose our way. If this book has taught me anything from my many conversations, it's that peace lives in gratitude. The true guide to becoming alive is about surrendering to the natural marvels around you and inside you to champion love in all its forms. Because when we tend to our inner gardens, healing blooms all around us.
- [61:17]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
It does. Amen. It's such a good. It's so true.
- [61:20]
Monica Lewinsky
Yeah.
- [61:20]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I was really just thinking about this yesterday because I remember when I wrote that in the book, we're the only animal that eats for pleasure. Oh. Everyone else. Every other animal. All the birds in my garden have.
- [61:32]
Monica Lewinsky
Interesting.
- [61:33]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
They just wake up and they have to eat. Never thought about that. I think about what a privilege it is to be alive, to be able to eat whatever we want, to be able to bathe or smell whatever we want, to be able to have these choices. What a crime not to run after all of them and just inhale all of it. What a crime not to. We're the only species that does this for joy. For joy.
- [61:56]
Monica Lewinsky
We have a very indulgent lunch.
- [61:58]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Yes.
- [61:59]
Monica Lewinsky
But it's a good. So the question I always ask everyone at the end is if there's something that you are currently working on reclaiming and that could be, you know, an aspect of your identity or a place or an emotion.
- [62:17]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
I am. I'm actually trying to reclaim the softer part of myself, actually. Really, like, especially with Harvey and being a good partner, actually, I think I. I spent so long working and didn't flex some of those other muscles, and maybe that's the part I most. Most interested in, like, really getting great at.
- [62:42]
Monica Lewinsky
Well, I'm so grateful we got to do this, and I'm so grateful that you were getting to do the candle. Yeah. I'm very proud of you. For me too.
- [62:52]
Pamela Skaist-Levy
Thank you. Thank you for recruiting me into the project. I really. It's opened, it's unlocked a bunch of things for me and been a really beautiful, you know, new doorway to step through. So thank you. I really appreciate it so much.
- [63:05]
Monica Lewinsky
I'm excited.
- [63:06]
Uber Eats Announcer
Aw.
- [63:07]
Monica Lewinsky
Love you. Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky production services by WTF Media studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin, and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker, and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candice Manriquez Wren and Emily Feldbrake. And executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin o' Flaherty, and Marshall Louie.