Monica Lewinsky (3:12)

Or not condensed.

Tig Notaro (3:14)

No, no. I want more time with you. You told me this is new to you, the podcasting world.

Monica Lewinsky (3:23)

Yes.

Tig Notaro (3:23)

And I want to be fully submerged in the podcasting world with you, Monica. So I will quickly go through this. I ran into this, the 80s pop singer Taylor Dane multiple times. And the first time I ran into her, I. I am a fan, and I genuinely went up to her at an intimate dinner party, and we had a mutual friend. I said, oh, my gosh, sorry to bother you. I just have to tell you, I love your voice. And she just turned and said, yeah, I don't do that anymore. And then she turned away, and I was. I was mortified. And so every time that I ran into her after that, I decided to turn it into an experiment, and I just repeated the exact same sentence every single time that I saw her. And I wasn't really as known then, so. Because people are always like, how did she not know who you were? And I was like, it was a long time ago. And so every time it was just a whole nother experience of telling her that. And so that's the gist of it.

Monica Lewinsky (4:27)

And did she come to eventually recognize you as. Oh, this is the person who says the same thing to me?

Tig Notaro (4:34)

No, but her manager. Agent called my manager saying that she. She had heard that I was telling the story about her and so.

Monica Lewinsky (4:46)

So Hollywood. But it wasn't even Taylor Dane, if you're listening to our podcast.

Tig Notaro (4:50)

But she wasn't even upset. It was just more of like she was kind of amused. And then. And when we met, I was expecting her to be defensive and deny that she had been, like, kind of rude and shut off to me. And she was like, nah, that sounds like me. I probably had a couple drinks in me. And so I appreciated that. That she owned it and she had a sense of humor about it. Yeah. Because know what I experienced.

Monica Lewinsky (5:15)

Right.

Tig Notaro (5:15)

And so it would have been a bummer if she was like, I didn't do that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't act like that.

Monica Lewinsky (5:20)

Gaslighting you, Taylor Dane. They gaslighted.

Tig Notaro (5:22)

No, she full on was like, that sounds like me. So. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (5:27)

And I now think of that every time I'm on the 134 going to Pasadena, which is not as often as in my dark decade. I'm surprised the target there didn't go out of business.

Tig Notaro (5:36)

I remember. I remember meeting you And I. Because, yeah, it was the first time I had met you, and you came up and you were like, oh, my gosh. And you start telling me your story about how you almost drove off the road. And I remember thinking, is this Monica Lewinsky? Like, I feel like I'm talking to Monica Lewinsky right now. I was so distracted. And then you introduced yourself. I was like, okay, I thought I was losing my mind. But, yeah, I remember that very well.

Monica Lewinsky (6:04)

It's funny, I don't know why. This is what's coming up for me, but when I was job hunting after graduate school, people would sometimes say, well, why don't you? And it was hard. Nobody would hire me. People would say, well, why don't you just put a different name on your cv? Which is like a great. You know, I get it. I understand that. The thinking behind it. But I would always think. And. And then when I walk in the room and the person's going, oh, they.

Tig Notaro (6:29)

Look a lot like.

Monica Lewinsky (6:32)

So that. That whole thing of, you know, I still find it weird sometimes, of. Do you introduce yourself? Do you not? Does someone recognize you? Do they not?

Tig Notaro (6:42)

Yeah, I know for myself, I mean, different lives and stories, but I. For a while, when people would recognize me and they'd be like, I feel like, I know you look familiar. I used to be like, oh, yeah? I don't know. And then I realized it just makes it so much easier if I just go, oh, yeah, I'm an actor, comedian. And then just go about my life. Because then they'd be like, where do I know you from? And they follow me around the store. Like, I feel, did we work together? I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I don't think.

Monica Lewinsky (7:15)

You know, when I lived in London and went to graduate school, I would take the tube to school and I would have that thing. I'm now in another country. And men would sometimes, like, look at me and look away and look at me and that whole thing. And they're trying to place me. And I never did it, but I always thought, one of these days I'm going to go up to one of them and go, I can't believe you don't remember me. That was the best night of my life. Like some version of just a fuck with someone just because that would have been fun.

Tig Notaro (7:42)

But if I ever said that to a man I have had fantasies about.

Monica Lewinsky (7:50)

Why I'm laughing is because I rewatched one of your specials. And so there was the moment where you're saying about your fiance, and then you Said he. And everybody in the audience laughed.

Tig Notaro (8:03)

Yeah. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (8:04)

And so that's why.

Tig Notaro (8:05)

Yeah. So, well, he's now my wife.

Monica Lewinsky (8:07)

Wait, were you right? Have you ever been with a man?

Tig Notaro (8:10)

I mean, you know, growing up, I had wild crushes on guys and friends and I've had versions of boyfriends, I guess, but not really. You know, it was more, I think, just really liking my guy friends and. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (8:28)

But not wanting to touch them intimately.

Tig Notaro (8:31)

No. Thank you. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (8:34)

So I know that recently you were in Sundance, right?

Tig Notaro (8:39)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (8:39)

For a documentary that you are producing.

Tig Notaro (8:43)

Yes. Okay.

Monica Lewinsky (8:44)

And it is called I have it written to Come See Me in the Good Light.

Tig Notaro (8:47)

I was like, me in the Good Light.

Monica Lewinsky (8:48)

Remember the title? So you look like you know what you're doing.

Tig Notaro (8:51)

Yes, but it's Come See Me in the Good Light. And it's. It's such a beautiful film. And I have. If I can brag for.

Monica Lewinsky (8:59)

No, no, tell it. Tell all the things.

Tig Notaro (9:01)

It won the top award at Sundance.

Monica Lewinsky (9:05)

Oh, wow.

Tig Notaro (9:06)

Yeah. And I didn't know that. I was like, wait, for documentaries? And they're like, no, for the whole festival. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (9:14)

That's amazing.

Tig Notaro (9:15)

Yeah. And our director was like, our kind. Our film. This kind of film doesn't win that prize ever. Basically, it's about my very dear old pal, Andrea Gibson, who is a non binary poet with stage four ovarian cancer, lives up in the mountains of Colorado with their partner Meg, who is also a poet. And I was on the phone with our mutual friend. I used to live in Colorado, our mutual friend Steph lived in Colorado. And Steph and I were on the phone talking about just different things with Andrea and Andrea's podcast, trying to get that edited and produced and on the air while they're going through this tough time and. And other things, like talking about Andrea's health and just really staying connected, trying to figure out how to be helpful because Steph now lives in Santa Fe, I'm in la. And Steph said, I feel like this moment in Andrea's life would make a really great documentary. And I was like, oh. Like, I had such clear vision like I've never had before when Steph said that. And I was like, I could. True. When we were standing there at our first. The premiere at Sundance, I said, I truly saw all the way to this moment where we're standing here. It felt like we made exactly the movie that I think Steph and I imagined in that first conversation. And I got on the phone and started calling friends that I knew, loved and respected Andrea because Andrea's a very well known poet, has published eight books, would sell out theaters around the world. I immediately got on the phone, started calling all of my friends that I knew were fans of Andrea and Meg's and was just like, hey, you want to kick down some cash? And they did just like left and right. And other people reached out to their friends and people they knew, and we just started really raising some money. And I reached out to these filmmakers, the director Ryan White and his producing partner Jessica, and they've made like 20 documentaries. They did the Pamela doc, they did amazing Serena Williams, dog Dr. Ruth. Just so many incredible movies. And mostly women. Not necessarily.

Monica Lewinsky (11:46)

Okay.

Tig Notaro (11:46)

No. But I reached out and I just said, hey, because they had said, we'd love to work with you someday. We'd love to do something funny. And I bring them this.

Monica Lewinsky (11:56)

You're like, hey, ovarian cancer.

Tig Notaro (11:59)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (11:59)

Stage four.

Tig Notaro (12:00)

Super funny. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I.

Monica Lewinsky (12:02)

But.

Tig Notaro (12:02)

But Andrea and Meg are both deeply funny people. And so I give them kind of a light pitch, and I just said, you have to check them out, and you're either in or you're not. Like, you either get it or you don't. And they were like, huh, okay. You know, and a poet. And it just wasn't like, wow, this is an obvious thing to somebody that doesn't know these people. And. But I know, and my friend Steph knew. We were like, this is. This is something. Yeah. So Andrea is also the poet laureate of Colorado. But anyway, so three days later, they texted me, the filmmakers, saying, are you sure Andrea would want to make a film at this point in their life? And I said, I can confirm. Yes. And they're like, okay. And they were on a plane days later, flew out to Colorado and started filming immediately. And they said that when they flew home, they were in tears, just like immediately attached to these people and devastated by the thought that, you know, how's she doing? You know, it's tough. It's. It's a really tough time right now. Like, exceptionally tough. So I'm sorry. Well, thank you. Yes. But the movie is extraordinarily life affirming and hilarious. And when we screened the movie at Sundance, Andrea was able to be there. You could feel the emotion. It was so heavy. You could hear the tears. But then also the funny moments. It was like a Will Ferrell movie. It was. It was it. Truly big Will Ferrell fan. Yeah. The level of laughter.

Monica Lewinsky (13:59)

Yeah.

Tig Notaro (14:00)

So I think people go into watching the film thinking it's just going to be devastating, but it is so life affirming. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (14:06)

Do you have any friends who are not funny?

Tig Notaro (14:09)

I am very drawn to whether people are funny or they are. They have a great sense of humor.

Monica Lewinsky (14:15)

Yeah.

Tig Notaro (14:16)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (14:16)

That's interesting. I don't know that I've ever really made that distinction.

Tig Notaro (14:20)

Well, it's fun when somebody's, you know, a good laugher and like Stephanie, my wife's mother, talk about this American life. She told me a joke once, and she couldn't get through it. She was laughing so hard. And I was like, carol, what is this joke? And she. And I'm talking, like, minutes dying, laughing. And she finally told me it was a joke she made up. And I said, this is the worst joke I've ever heard. And I said, it makes no sense. And I said, will you come to Largo and open for me and tell this joke? And she was like, oh, people aren't gonna. They're not gonna laugh. And I was like, exactly. That's why I want you to come. And so she decides to do this. And it was so funny. Cause when I introduced her, I said, my next guest, her last time on stage was for her fourth grade piano recital. Please welcome my mother in law, Carol Ashton. And she out on stage with her purse on her shoulder, and I stayed on stage with her, and I ribbed her the whole time she was telling her joke. And it turned into 15 minutes. And I was at dinner with a large group, and I was talking about this, and one of the producers of this American Life was there, and they were like, tig, do you have audio of that? I feel like this would make a good segment for the show. And sure enough, they did a segment on my mother in law telling the most unfunny joke you've ever heard that she wrote. Oh, my God. So I'm surrounded by her, who is. She's not the funniest person, but she's a good laugher. Yeah, yeah, she's funny. She's funny in her own right.

Monica Lewinsky (15:50)

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have to find that segment now.

Tig Notaro (15:54)

It's good.

Monica Lewinsky (15:54)

But back to Andrea and your documentary. So do you have distribute? Is it coming out?

Tig Notaro (16:01)

We sold it. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (16:02)

I mean, you've got to imagine. Oh, we won the whole fucking thing. We are selling this.

Tig Notaro (16:06)

Well, it. You know.

Monica Lewinsky (16:08)

Oh, that's not a guarantee.

Tig Notaro (16:09)

It wasn't. Yeah, I mean, you know, people aren't buying things as much. Also, not a lot of excitement around the LGBTQ world these days. You know, a lot of pullback on content in that World. So it wasn't a slam dunk, but we. We have sold it, and we are very thrilled about our partner.

Monica Lewinsky (16:30)

Well, that's exciting.

Tig Notaro (16:31)

Yeah, we're really, really. The fact that it. It was crazy because we were all hunkered down in a. Ten of us in an Airbnb at Sundance, and because Andrea's wasn't feeling great, we really just went to the screenings, came back, sat by the fire, had tea, we'd go to do very targeted press, come back, hang out at the house. We were not.

Monica Lewinsky (16:53)

Oh, my God, that sounds like heaven.

Tig Notaro (16:55)

It was. We called it Snuggle Down. Yeah. We were not having the typical sundown experience. And so the only thing we were going on was, oh, my gosh, this is playing so well. People are really liking it. But we weren't at parties and events, and so we didn't get a vibe of how things were going. So when we got. When we left the festival and found out we won that award, I was like. I was stunned. I was stunned. Yeah. But it was. And then it sells. It just was. It was green lights the whole way.

Monica Lewinsky (17:30)

I'm super intrigued by this idea of kind of having a vision for something. All the doors opening, it ending up exactly as you had imagined. Do you feel like that's now gonna change the trajectory of how you move forward in projects or. Because that sounds like a dream. Oh, right.

Tig Notaro (17:50)

It was such a dream. And I was on the phone with my childhood friend, and she was talking about how her son got into business school at UT in Austin, and she said it really felt like a win because it's really hard to get into that school.

Monica Lewinsky (18:08)

Yeah.

Tig Notaro (18:08)

And I guess only two kids from his class got in. Anyway, when she said that, I thought, first of all, I have a really incredible life, and so that is not lost on me. But. And I don't mean to sound obvious and cheesy, both. Oh, my wife was a win, and my kids are a win, and my health is a win. All of those obvious things. And I really feel that way. I haven't ever felt like, oh, I won, like, and not even just awards.

Monica Lewinsky (18:42)

Right.

Tig Notaro (18:42)

But just an experience where I was like, this feels like a win. This feels like a win.

Monica Lewinsky (18:47)

When in alignment, in flow.

Tig Notaro (18:49)

Yes. Because I have been. Look, I've been nominated for awards. If I won that award, I don't think I would have felt like it was a win because I. Maybe. Maybe there's some feeling I have about the project or maybe I think it could have been better or any of that kind of Stuff this movie. Come see me in the good light. Yeah. It felt like after my friend mentioned that about her son, I was like, that's so interesting. Because I just felt like. And it's really not because of the award or selling it?

Monica Lewinsky (19:24)

No, no, I did.

Tig Notaro (19:25)

It was like, this feels like it's beyond what I dreamed. It's so beyond what I dreamed. But I did dream of it going all the way and having a great response and, you know, but there was just something where I was like. That felt like a win.

Monica Lewinsky (19:41)

Yeah.

Tig Notaro (19:42)

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (19:44)

No, you mention your health and your kids and your wife because you had like a. You had a crazy period, right?

Tig Notaro (19:53)

I mean. Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

Monica Lewinsky (19:57)

And that was.

Tig Notaro (19:58)

It was 2012. I had pneumonia.

Monica Lewinsky (20:00)

Okay.

Tig Notaro (20:01)

And then I took antibiotics, which caused me to contract an intestinal disease called C. Diff.

Monica Lewinsky (20:10)

What is that?

Tig Notaro (20:11)

Well, C. Diff is a bacteria that's in your gut. And it's great. It's helpful. Nothing wrong with that.

Monica Lewinsky (20:18)

So we normally. So we all have C. Diff. Okay.

Tig Notaro (20:21)

I mean, I believe or have the bacteria.

Monica Lewinsky (20:24)

Right.

Tig Notaro (20:24)

What happens is sometimes if you take antibiotics, you can have an adverse response and it'll clear out all of the bacteria in your body and your gut and it'll just leave C. Diff to alone, to thrive on its own. Oh, and it just eats your insides. And it's like, I couldn't eat food. I was hospitalized. I lost like over £20. It was tough. And then I got out of the hospital and then my mother tripped and hit her head and died. And then my girlfriend and I at the time, we split up and then I was diagnosed with invasive cancer. And that was all in a four month period of time.

Monica Lewinsky (21:05)

Four months?

Tig Notaro (21:05)

Yeah. Uh huh.

Monica Lewinsky (21:07)

Wow.

Tig Notaro (21:08)

It was really rough. Yeah. Really rough. Yeah. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (21:13)

What was the worst of the three?

Tig Notaro (21:16)

I mean, I guess my mom.

Monica Lewinsky (21:19)

Rather a shitty question.

Tig Notaro (21:20)

No, no, no, no. But. But I'm very well known for having cancer. Although as far as illnesses go, C. Diff was absolutely terrifying because I had never been sick and unable to turn my health around. My health wasn't turning around. And it's so. It's terrifying when you're just slipping away, but it was all terrifying. Like the whole thing was. Was beyond rough. Yeah. But yeah, I had gotten out of the hospital late March and My birthday is March 24, and my mother, she. The last I heard from her, she left me a message singing Happy Birthday to me. And then she. Oh my gosh, she tripped a couple of days later when my Stepfather called me. I thought it was my mother trying to connect with me again, because we weren't able to connect after she had left me that birthday message. And he called to say that she had fallen and hit her head and wasn't gonna make it. She was never conscious again.

Monica Lewinsky (22:23)

Oh, my gosh.

Tig Notaro (22:24)

Yeah. So it was tough.

Monica Lewinsky (22:26)

Can you tell me just, like, a little bit about the decision that you made to go on stage at Largo days after your breast cancer diagnosis?

Tig Notaro (22:36)

Yeah, I think I was just in that place where you can find yourself in life, where you've lost everything. And, you know, I had seen how quickly health and life can just go away. You can take it for granted. And I do not anymore. But just with my health and then my mother tripping and dying, I thought, well, I don't know if I'm gonna live through this. I'm so deathly ill. And, you know, I was holding my pants up with just my finger in my belt loop.

Monica Lewinsky (23:11)

I wish you had lost so much weight.

Tig Notaro (23:13)

I had lost so much weight. Yeah. And I didn't go on a shopping spree to get new clothes. Really. I was. I was desperate.

Monica Lewinsky (23:20)

Where was the sponsor when you needed it? Clothing sponsor.

Tig Notaro (23:23)

Oh, my gosh. And so I think I just. I had never been so personal on stage. I had made more observational and, you know, some personal stuff, but not really. And I just felt like I love stand up so much, and I want to be able to do it again. And I wasn't sure if I was gonna ever be able to do stand up again because I didn't know where my health and life was leading. And so I just thought, I want to do stand up one more time. And I also realized I'm not going to be able to go on stage and just talk about some funny thing I saw. I need to share what I'm going through. And I remember I ran it by a couple of friends of mine that were comedians that I respect so much, and they encouraged me not to because they were feeling protective of me. They were like, that could be really tough. And I was like, I felt so compelled. I could not be going through what I did, what I was going through, and not talk about it. So I went on stage. And it's funny because I always tell people it's hard for me to hear that audio, not because it was a hard time in my life, but because I am a perfectionist with my stand up. And it was off the cuff kind of, and I was nervous. And you can hear. I like, I was maybe Even about to cry. When I walked out, I was like, hello, good evening. I have cancer. And I. And I can hear it in my voice, but I didn't know how it was going to go. I thought maybe the audience was just going to stare at me while I bombed and then I would leave stage and then go die somewhere. That would be the last performance of my life. But I just felt like it was worth the risk because I really had nothing to lose. And I had no idea that people at that show were going to be going off and blogging and tweeting. And it went viral and ended up being the number one selling comedy album of the year.

Monica Lewinsky (25:47)

Congratulations.

Tig Notaro (25:48)

Oh, thank you. But I just. I didn't know. I went home and went to sleep and. And then woke up and it had gone viral. And I didn't even know what that meant. Right. Didn't even understand. Right. But it was a risk and then it wasn't, in a way, because I didn't have any other choice.

Monica Lewinsky (26:04)

So you said you were going on stage and you were nervous, and do you think that in the course of doing this piece that it became more and more comfortable to you to be talking about this publicly?

Tig Notaro (26:20)

Oh, yeah. I felt like everybody in that audience was exactly who needed to be there that night because they carried me through that moment. And there is this. There's this really wonderful, just tiny little moment where I said to the audience, should I stop talking about this? And this guy yells out, no, this is fucking incredible. Don't ever stop. And I was like, it was. It's so touching, like, when you hear it on the album, even in the moment. But I had been on tour. I was opening. This was like, yeah, 2011, maybe. I was opening for Sarah Silverman.

Monica Lewinsky (27:06)

I love Sarah.

Tig Notaro (27:07)

On tour. Yeah, we were on a bus tour and she had a. A tour manager. And that tour manager is Jess, the producer of Come See Me in the Good Light. She was working as Sarah's tour manager. And Jess and I hit it off like crazy on that tour and kept in touch. And she was making these documentaries and I was. I would. I would always reach out and be like, oh, my gosh, I saw this film. I loved it. Congrats. This is so great. And then she told me that she had tickets to that show and she was sick and she gave them to her friend and he was like, oh, I took all of my gay guy friends and we all went. He said, I told them all, oh, this comedian's supposed to be really funny. Jess loves her. And it was Ryan, the director of Come See Me in the Good Light, he was there at that show when I announced that I had cancer. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (28:03)

Oh, my gosh.

Tig Notaro (28:06)

I know.

Monica Lewinsky (28:06)

Wow, that's amazing.

Tig Notaro (28:08)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (28:09)

Did your relationship to time change? Did your relationship to sort of how you saw your life and think about those things?

Tig Notaro (28:16)

I mean, everything changed for me after that. I feel like I was just on cruise control in life before 2012. I don't know who I was, I don't know what I was doing. I, I truly. It's that bittersweet thing of. I would never want to go through that again. And of course, I am so devastated to lose my mother, especially meeting Stephanie and having our sons like she would have. I mean, devoured Stephanie and my sons, like, but Stephanie believes my mother brought us together. So if we've been out to dinner and they're like, the song comes on, I'm like, oh, my gosh, my mother loves this song. And then the next song comes on, I'm like, oh, my God, my mother loved this song too. And then the next one, oh my gosh, this was like one of her. And Stephanie's like. And so you think this is just playing for no good reason? I'm like, I don't know, kind of. And she's like, how dare you? You know, so she's very into all of that. Woo, woo, woo.

Monica Lewinsky (29:22)

I'm very woo, woo.

Tig Notaro (29:23)

I don't think I am, but Stephanie is the first person that came along in my life where I'm like, I love that she's like that. You know, I'm not really like that, but she is. And I think previously I would have been like, yeah, I'm not into that. Or I can't date somebody that's into that. Whereas with her, I'm like, I'm all in. Yeah. And I love that she thinks that my mother brought us together. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (29:51)

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Tig Notaro (31:45)

Really changed everything and I, I just saw such amazing sides of strangers and loved ones, family, friends, and it just made me even more confident in. I want to give back. I want to be a good person. I want to be there for people. I know what it's like to be desperate, really desperate. And then also finding a boundary of I've given in this way, this, I've spent my time in this way, I've donated money or time, however I have. And then also I don't have to do that all the time.

Monica Lewinsky (32:27)

Every time I, I struggle with I, I. Boundaries are a thing I'm, I'm always working on trying to figure out how to draw figure out. I think too also this whole thing of how do you respect someone else's boundary? I mean, what's your relationship to boundaries? Did it change because of this or.

Tig Notaro (32:51)

How did you fully. I mean I am, I really don't struggle with saying no to things or just being as upfront as I need to be. One of my favorite. I talk about it all the time. But the book by. Are you familiar with Martha Beckham? Have you read her the Way of Integrity?

Monica Lewinsky (33:12)

No book.

Tig Notaro (33:13)

Oh, it's so good.

Monica Lewinsky (33:14)

Okay.

Tig Notaro (33:14)

It's just basically, you know, making sure you're going through life with as much in the most honest way you can. And that means from White lies to.

Monica Lewinsky (33:26)

Wait, no white lies. You're not. You're not allowed white lies in the. In the integrous way.

Tig Notaro (33:31)

I mean. Yeah, okay. Yeah. But it. It is unbelievable, the weight you drop in your head and your soul and that you can just kind of move forward. I feel like if, like, my wife reached out to me when I was working in Toronto and she wanted to. She said basically she was upset with me about something, and she put it in an email. And what I noticed was when I started reading the email, I wasn't like, oh, God. Like, I didn't feel scared because I knew I've been honest with her. I knew I've been forthcoming. Like, there's. I was curious what I had done to upset her. It was more curious.

Monica Lewinsky (34:14)

I was like, you're an emotionally mature person.

Tig Notaro (34:18)

I'm. Look, I'm not perfect. I'm just telling you that, like.

Monica Lewinsky (34:21)

But it's. I mean, I think I was just reading some meme on Instagram, you know, that was kind of spotting emotionally immature people. And even though I work on myself a lot, I have a high eq, in some ways, I think I'm emotionally immature. And I was ticking a bunch of those boxes, and it was saying, an emotionally mature person is curious. When someone comes to them with a problem, they don't get defensive. So I don't know that I always get defensive, but I think I just. I think my fear of abandonment kicks in.

Tig Notaro (34:55)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (34:56)

So. Versus being curious. So I'm really interested by that. So you were curious?

Tig Notaro (35:01)

I was curious. I was just like, whoa, I've done something wrong. I wonder what this is. You know, Turns out it was a manageable situation, but her feelings were hurt, and I was like, you're right. I'm sorry, and I see it, and I won't do it again. And she was. She just. She said, well, that was easy, and.

Monica Lewinsky (35:22)

Let me get my laundry list out.

Tig Notaro (35:25)

Yeah. And it's not like all of our conflict is handled that easily every time.

Monica Lewinsky (35:30)

We can read about those kinds of things in a book or, you know, you hear it in a lecture, talk or something. But you've actually. It's really possible because take Notaro's done it, so.

Tig Notaro (35:41)

But my life did. It terrifies me to think who I would be If I. If 2012 hadn't happened.

Monica Lewinsky (35:49)

Yeah.

Tig Notaro (35:49)

I mean, it's really something. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (35:53)

I think a lot about. Because I was so Young in 1998, in comparison to kind of all the other major players, I lost so much that I was forced in that way. To have to work on myself and to evolve. And I think there were a lot of people who were at a point in their life where they had enough power and status and age that they kind of weren't forced to evolve at all. And I feel so grateful for that. You know, I feel so. I mean, I wish things had been different or easier, but all the work that I did, I just feel so grateful to have been able to evolve.

Tig Notaro (36:34)

Yeah. I love directness. I love honesty. I love those moments because it's. It's a real challenge not to be honest, but like, to understand each other in a moment where there's some conflict.

Monica Lewinsky (36:55)

I'm very impressed. So I don't know that that means anything.

Tig Notaro (36:58)

I'm a very flawed person, but I'm trying my best. And 2012 was game changing to me, and I just. I don't have time for certain people that I used to have time for. I don't have time for certain obligations or jobs or all that kind of stuff. I think what also drives me is that I have a little ptsd. I have a lot of PTSD from that time period. And so getting that phone call from my stepfather, I thought it was my mother calling again. I thought I was going to hear happy birthday, you know. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (37:38)

My mom would be exactly the same way.

Tig Notaro (37:40)

Yeah. And I had already gotten that message from my mother, so I thought I was going to hear it again. And then it was my stepfather, Tig. It was so, like, grave, devastating. And so certain phone calls I get a little nervous about, and it makes me want to be certain about what I'm spending my time doing. Because getting a bad phone call like that, there's never a good time. But I really don't want to get a call like that if I've signed up to do something I do not want to spend my time doing, because it's going to be an even worse feeling. You know, if you're. If. If you're spending time with somebody that you know is not good for you or is just toxic in some way or something. It's just like an old. You're like, yeah, I'll go have lunch and say, yeah, I don't want to do this. Yeah, that's where it's like, you say, no, you don't want to do that with your time. And also on top of that, I don't want to get a bad phone call if I'm spending my amazing.

Monica Lewinsky (38:50)

Now, are you still close to your stepdad?

Tig Notaro (38:53)

Well, he actually in a crazy twist, because life is Insane. I took my mother off of life support on March 28, 2012. My stepfather ended up dying of C. Diff, the disease I had.

Monica Lewinsky (39:10)

Oh, my God.

Tig Notaro (39:11)

I took him off life support March 28, 10 years later.

Monica Lewinsky (39:16)

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

Tig Notaro (39:20)

Yeah. Really crazy. Really crazy.

Monica Lewinsky (39:23)

Is March 28th like a hard day for you? I'm a very aware of the date person.

Tig Notaro (39:27)

I'm very aware. Like, as soon as March starts, you know, I'm like, March 1st. I was on the TV show the Office and it aired on March 1st, and I was like, oh, my throat hurts. And that was the beginning of.

Monica Lewinsky (39:44)

The pneumonia.

Tig Notaro (39:45)

The pneumonia, then the C Diff and the mom. My mother.

Monica Lewinsky (39:48)

Yeah. I have a friend who lost her brother in September and I think maybe also her dad at some point. Whatever it is, there's like she has a two week period in September where it's sort of that, oh, this is, you know, and everybody knows. Okay, that's the.

Tig Notaro (40:03)

I went into the hospital.

Monica Lewinsky (40:05)

It's the tender time. You know, I do that on January 16th. For me. So every year, January 16th is the day that I had the FBI sting. And so I, you know, the first year I was like, it's 1o, 1pm as the, you know, this was when they flashed the badge and did it and sort of went down the dark hole. And then eventually I think it was the next year, I kind of was like, I'm. I'm not doing this again. Like, I'm going to celebrate that I survived.

Tig Notaro (40:32)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (40:33)

You know, and so I. I celebrate every year Survivors Day. So we call it my family, as.

Tig Notaro (40:39)

Far as, you know, celebrating dates. I always, with my cancer diagnosis, it's July 25th, and I always celebrate that. And people are like, that's weird. And I'm like, but to me, that's. That was my second chance. I caught the cancer. Yeah. And turned it around in birth. And also I feel so elevated by my life with Stephanie and our sons. That from March, when all of that starts coming up, I kind of just feel it just really brings me back to how thankful I am for my life. And I just feel so elevated by my family. Yeah, it's great. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (41:21)

How did you and Stephanie meet?

Tig Notaro (41:23)

We met when I was in March. We were filming a movie and we were kind of love interests on the movie. And it's called In a World. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (41:36)

Oh, I saw that.

Tig Notaro (41:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just. Was a little independent film, but it was great. And our friend Lake Bell wrote it, directed it, starred in it, and I was really sick During I didn't know what was wrong with me. And so they kept letting me lie down on this little pallet on the ground. And they. On days that I couldn't come in, they were giving my lines to, like, Nick Offerman and other actors and stuff. And I was just like, what? I didn't know what was wrong with me. And meanwhile, I had pneumonia, C Diff and invasive cancer. So we did that movie. And then my life fell apart. And I was out of the world for, like, six months going through all of the emotional and physical stuff. And then I resurfaced and I ran into Stephanie. She's a part of, like, the UCB comedy world sketch, improv stuff. I ran into her and I really enjoyed. We really enjoyed working together, but I was in a relationship at the time. She actually had never dated a woman. And so we exchanged numbers because the movie was going to Sundance. And I told her, I said, oh, by the way, I'm not a big texter. I said, I went to lunch with this girl who texted me, or to coffee. She texted me afterwards saying how much she enjoyed having coffee. Not that I thought Stephanie was into me or was going to text me a lot. I just told her the story, because I just said, here's my number, but I'm not great. And then that girl knew I had a show that night, and she texted me saying, have a great show. And I was like, wow. And then at night, like, 11 o'clock, she texted again saying, sweet dreams. And I was just like, oh, my gosh. And Stephanie was like, well, I'm not a big texter either. And we went our separate ways. And then that night, she texted me at like, 11, saying, Sweet dreams. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this girl is so funny. And then we both couldn't stop texting each other, okay. But we didn't see each other in person. And then I was writing my book, and she said, oh, I'm out with friends at La Poubelle at this bar having a drink, if you want to come by. And she was with the whole group. It happened to be Valentine's Day, and people are always like, yeah. But there was nothing. There really wasn't that. It was just like she was with a group of people and I was writing my book. It was late at night, and I thought, I can't go down there, because I started to think I had a crush on her. And then I was thinking, wait, she's not into me. I don't need to shower or anything. I can Just go down there. So I threw on this, like, wool sweater with an eagle on the back and, like, went down to say hi at this bar, and she's with her whole group. I walk in, she, my sweater's white. Hers was dark blue wool sweater with an eagle on the back. Those Canadian wool sweaters. I was like, oh, my gosh. And I said, we should switch sweaters. And so we exchanged sweaters. And her friend who was sitting at the table, this guy goes, you two get together, I'll take a picture of you. And we went to put her arms around each other and we started kissing. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (44:40)

Oh, really?

Tig Notaro (44:41)

Oh, yes, really. Okay. I am not a public display person. Okay. Stephanie had never kissed a mother. As soon as we touch each other, we start kissing. And then we end up, you know, making out the whole night. And then she, too bad you didn't shower. And so then she emails me the next day, like a 50,000 page email, telling me how much she likes me, but that she's not gay and that she doesn't want to mislead me, but that she really enjoys talking to me and hanging out and thinks I'm so funny. And I was just reading it going, ugh. Because I was like, I really like her, but I thought, I can't really push back because if she's not into it. Right, right, right. And so I just wrote, as a joke, I just wrote, okay, dyke. And she said it made her laugh so hard, and she thought, I like this person. Yeah. So we're 12 years in, and. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (45:34)

That's so funny. So before, okay. Boomer was.

Tig Notaro (45:37)

Okay. Diet. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (45:40)

Let the record show I've made Tig Notaro laugh.

Tig Notaro (45:42)

Yes.

Monica Lewinsky (45:42)

Like, that's an amazing.

Tig Notaro (45:45)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (45:46)

That's an amazing story.

Tig Notaro (45:47)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (45:48)

And now you've got two.

Tig Notaro (45:49)

Two, two boys. Yeah, we have. Yeah. They're fraternal twins. They will be nine in June, and they're just the coolest. And yeah, my.

Monica Lewinsky (46:00)

My nephew's 9, so I know that.

Tig Notaro (46:02)

Oh, okay.

Monica Lewinsky (46:03)

That age.

Tig Notaro (46:03)

Yeah, it's a very.

Monica Lewinsky (46:05)

They'll still give you hugs and still be snuggly.

Tig Notaro (46:08)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (46:08)

You know, but you can. You can see they're getting kind of cool, right?

Tig Notaro (46:12)

Yeah, you can.

Monica Lewinsky (46:12)

You can see puberty is not too, too far away. Yes. Which is terrifying.

Tig Notaro (46:16)

Yeah, I know, I know. We're like, we're gonna hang on to this as much as possible.

Monica Lewinsky (46:21)

I was reminded that you had said this really kind thing about me on Late Night with Stephen Colbert.

Tig Notaro (46:30)

Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (46:30)

And do you want to tell everybody in the world who Listens to my podcast. This nice compliment. Just like the whole story.

Tig Notaro (46:36)

And, well, I was booked on Colbert and I show up and I find out Bill Clinton is the other guest.

Monica Lewinsky (46:45)

Who's that?

Tig Notaro (46:47)

And I just. I thought, oh, my gosh. I immediately thought about when I had met you and, you know, I was already a stand up comedian when that whole story broke. But that's not really my style. I'm not drawn to, like, current events or politics, like job jokes. Yeah, none of that kind of stuff would. Yeah, that wasn't my thing. So I wasn't ever, like, in. It wasn't in my past of, like, making fun of you, but I knew that people did. But don't thank me because I. I didn't really think much about it. Right. It was kind of laughed, which.

Monica Lewinsky (47:29)

Which is.

Tig Notaro (47:29)

I don't even know if I laughed.

Monica Lewinsky (47:30)

Right, Right.

Tig Notaro (47:31)

Because I don't really. I'm not really into that kind of humor. But. But I don't even think it even registered with me. You know what I mean? I didn't think much about it. I think that was kind of where so many people were at that time. But when I met you at that event, I was like, God, she is so awesome. And so. Well, you were just so nice to talk to and you seemed like you had a great sense of humor and you seemed.

Monica Lewinsky (47:57)

I thought you were funny.

Tig Notaro (47:58)

So obviously you were a good laugher and you seemed smart and all of these things, and it just really made an impact on me. And I remember walking away thinking, like, God, that is so crazy what can happen to somebody and the perception of someone. So I go on, and you and I had, you know, been very loosely in touch here or there, but I couldn't claim that you were my close friend, but I had respect for you and I liked you. And so I go on the show and Bill is the other guest, and I'm like, oh, this feels weird, you know, and so I just felt like. I think I. Part of what I was talking about was this project I was doing with Jennifer Aniston at the time.

Monica Lewinsky (48:44)

Okay.

Tig Notaro (48:45)

And it was called First Ladies, and it was a movie and, you know, Netflix, it was a project they ended up getting rid of during the pandemic. But it was. She and I were going to play. She was going to be the first lady and I was going to be her wife. And. And so I was talking about that project and I thought, well, this will be perfect. I can make a comment very naturally as we talk about, you know, the White House and, you know, I think Stephen, he didn't even know I was going to say anything, but he made some comment about an intern. And I said, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was like, oh, well, speaking of. I just want to say. And I actually don't remember exactly what I said, but I know that my feeling was that you had been kind of taken down in this moment, and you're a really human. Yeah, a human. You're a smart. There's a reason you got that job. But it was a moment where I was like, I have to say something, because I don't feel comfortable just being on this show with him and not speaking up for you in some way. Thank you. Yeah. But it means a lot.

Monica Lewinsky (50:01)

I think those are important things in private conversations and public conversations. But, in fact, my best friend from college just sent me a text last weekend. Oh, I didn't listen to the song. She sent me a song, which I didn't listen to yet, but something, something. And she had made reference to it was like, oh, well, those were in the days when I used to have to defend you, you know, and so. But that, you know, they would. Or it would be, you know, it was sort of a joke among us. Even of people would say, well, what's Monica like? And if they said anything positive, they go, well, what she really like, you know, like, yeah.

Tig Notaro (50:38)

Oh, okay.

Monica Lewinsky (50:39)

You know, that there must be something really wrong with me. But I think those things are. Well, they're important to me. They're really important to me.

Tig Notaro (50:46)

They're important to me, too.

Monica Lewinsky (50:48)

And so thank you.

Tig Notaro (50:49)

Of course. I mean, I wasn't even thinking, oh, you'll for sure hear it, or that there wasn't anything other than, like, I really liked you when I met you. And I really. It made me really reflect on what had happened and who you were and the perception that was out there. And I'm very curious to go back and watch that, because I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was like, I got to get this in there. And I remember being like, you can't cut that out. I was like, you know? But, you know, Stephen was like, yeah, totally good with it. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (51:22)

I actually just met him and did his show to launch the podcast.

Tig Notaro (51:26)

Oh, okay.

Monica Lewinsky (51:27)

Yeah, that was nice. So it was. It was sweet. My aunt and cousin came and were in the audience, so it's sort of a nice. I don't know. It's nice. It's. It's nice to be able to share sometimes some of these more positive things. With my family. So, you know, have you always, like, had you read the Martha Beck integrity book at that point? Have you, like, have you always used your voice in that way?

Tig Notaro (51:56)

I mean, in the way that I did about you?

Monica Lewinsky (52:00)

Colbert?

Tig Notaro (52:01)

Yeah. No, I don't think so. I mean, I feel like it's really interesting. I feel like I took a lot of risks as a child, and not great risks.

Monica Lewinsky (52:14)

Like example.

Tig Notaro (52:16)

I mean, any. Anywhere from. I started smoking when I was in elementary school. I dropped Siri. Oh, I was Huckleberry Tig. I was like, yeah. I mean, I. I failed three grades. I dropped out of high school. I have a seventh grade education. I just would do reckless things. Aside from that, like, I don't even like sharing it because I don't want to give anyone ideas of what to do. But I just. I would just do stupid things. And I was, you know, class clown, all of that kind of stuff. And I would take risks in that kind of world of being funny or a rebel, you know, and then I feel like when I got older, especially after 2012, and I felt way more centered and understood who I was, I feel like my risks shifted into a different way. Whether it was speaking out in your defense on the same show as Bill Clinton or having cancer and then doing half of my standup comedy special on HBO without my shirt on. You know, like, those are the kind of risks that I started taking that I feel like I've just always kind of taken risks. But as far as honesty and integrity, I feel like I've always been honest in a way of, like, I'll tell you how I feel, but I always think of my brain as an attic that I don't ever want to go into and have to go and blow off dust and see what this box is that I'm storing. You know what I mean? I want to have a clear attic. Yeah.

Monica Lewinsky (54:07)

That's so interesting. So does that mean living with no regrets?

Tig Notaro (54:12)

It's kind of like when Stephanie sent me that email and she had an issue with me. I didn't have to dust off any boxes because I wasn't hiding anything. I just had a conflict that came up and I could just handle it directly. I think that in 2012, when I had my big turning point, I wanted to make sure that as much of my life that I could make feel congruent and that everything was as much in shape and straightforward and honest. I can tell people how I feel. I can express how I feel. I can do what I really want to do in a more certain and congruent way than I, than before 2012, you know, but I don't think I would have had that confidence. I think becoming a stand up comedian, I think coming out, I think going through everything in 2012 has given me so much confidence that it's like you're.

Monica Lewinsky (55:21)

You'Re lucky because I've gone through a lot of shit too and I don't think I have, I, I have confidence in some ways, but I think I still lack confidence and, or feelings of self worth in others. So it's just interesting to me because I think we're only a few years apart. I'll be 52 in July.

Tig Notaro (55:41)

Okay, I'll be 54 and this month.

Monica Lewinsky (55:43)

So it's just, it's so interesting to sit here and think I'm so inspired by someone who's the same age. But on one of the interviews I did, I interviewed this young woman and I was like, I'm so inspired by somebody 20 years younger than me and her life philosophy.

Tig Notaro (55:58)

So I mean, wherever you get the inspiration, I mean, I think it also. And right back at you, I mean even if you don't feel that you've whatever found your stride in whatever ways or the confidence, what you came through on such a public level and who you seem to be, as far as what I know, and it's really, I mean I'm not, as we mentioned, not that close, but it's, I cannot imagine, I mean I can only imagine what that was like and to, I don't know it. I feel like the grace that you showed is beyond, I mean, beyond. And you were so young at the time.

Monica Lewinsky (56:52)

That's the part that I think I was in that age range where you think you know everything, you know, in your early 20s. And so I couldn't even, I think even how I've had to just process different aspects of things has shifted because I saw the world in such a limit. I'd only been here for a little over two decades, you know, and now I've been here for five. It's a really big, it's a huge shift in how you see the world and your experiences. And I came into the situation with a lot of fucked upness. So I mean it only exacerbated it in some ways.

Tig Notaro (57:34)

But I mean, I look at even my wife who was 30 when we had our children, I was 45, I was like, oh God, what do we do? And Stephanie, I can't believe how she just fell into it. And I'm like, if I were 30, having twins yeah, I would. So, yeah. I mean, I. I just don't. I hadn't had my 2012, you know, like, when I was 30 or when. If I went through that. The fact that you lived through that is extraordinary. Yeah, I really think so.

Monica Lewinsky (58:22)

Thanks. Before I ask you the last question that I ask everybody, this is so random. One of the things that makes your comedy so great is. Is your voice. Right. And sort of your delivery on things. And I want to know what if you have.

Tig Notaro (58:40)

And if.

Monica Lewinsky (58:40)

Yes. What it sounds like your baby voice or, like, how you talk to babies and how you talk to pets, because they're usually similar, but they're a little different. And so do you. Do you like if a really cute little dog came in here right now?

Tig Notaro (58:55)

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Speaking of cute dogs, you'll see some of the cutest in. Come See Me in the Good light. Okay. We have three cats. We call our house Kitty City and.

Monica Lewinsky (59:08)

Won'T make any lesbian jokes.

Tig Notaro (59:11)

Make all you want. I am a walking lesbian joke. I love the Indigo Girls.

Monica Lewinsky (59:18)

I'm not a lesbian. I love the Indigo Girls.

Tig Notaro (59:22)

Well, as I said, you're smart. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe I'm putting you on the spot. Too much. No, I mean, I have that voice, of course. And you're gonna make me do that. Oh, boy. Okay. We have a cat named Linus. And our other two, we have Skip, Linus, and Fluff. And Linus is the one boy. And I call him. Well, it's Little Son. But the way I say it is, I go, oh, listen. Oh, listen. That's how I speak to Linus and Skip. We call Squeakers because she talks so much. And I don't know if I. I just say, oh, squeaky. Oh, Squeaks. You know, but all the sun.

Monica Lewinsky (60:22)

Ah, the sun.

Tig Notaro (60:24)

Yeah. That's. That's probably the voice.

Monica Lewinsky (60:27)

So the last question I ask everybody, what's something that you want to reclaim right now? And the answer could be anything. So it could be a part of your identity, an emotion, a thing.

Tig Notaro (60:39)

Wow. What do I want to reclaim? I feel like I'm on my way to reclaiming this, and it's a. I think I went so hard with my career for so long, and I took, like, six months off when Max and Finn were born. We didn't go anywhere. We didn't leave the house. We were just, like, in lockdown baby mode. I didn't take any work. And then. And then, you know, I got very busy. And what I want to reclaim is, I think more of a balance. People talk about this all the time. I've thought that I was getting closer to balance or having balance, and I was not. And it's really been interesting because I've. I stopped touring properly. Okay. November of 2023. So I'm coming up on a year and a half of not doing a proper tour. There have been gigs that have been incoming that made sense for me to go do here or there. I don't think I've done more than five, and that is a whole different world for me. Okay. And, you know, I was sitting around with Stephanie these past few days saying, gosh, this must be what it's like to just be a person where, you know, we sit and have coffee in the morning and take a walk and I go record your show. We went to our kids open house at school and my day had things, but I wasn't slammed, you know. And part of that is I've been filming. I'm on this new Star Trek series. It's called Starfleet Academy. It hasn't come out yet, but it's with Holly Hunter and Paul Giamatti and very cool. It's incredible cast. Yeah. But anyway, I've been doing that and I've been podcasting, but I've just not been touring. And it's just made such a difference in my life. So I want to reclaim a more balanced life. And so I'm a year and a half into it and I'm really excited about. Feels good.

Monica Lewinsky (63:04)

Thank you.

Tig Notaro (63:04)

Of course.

Monica Lewinsky (63:05)

In my show and I just always want there to be an exchange.

Tig Notaro (63:08)

Yeah. So, no, it was a pleasure to be here. I was very much looking forward to it. I do a million podcasts and I was like, oh, my God. I'm actually excited to go do this podcast. That would be nice. Yeah, thanks. So thanks for having me.

Monica Lewinsky (63:20)

Yeah, no, this was great. Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky is hosted and executive produced by me, Monica Lewinsky Production Services by WTF Media Studios. Our theme song is by Ben Benjamin and our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our story producer is Elna Baker, and our senior producer is Megan Donis for Wondery. Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffin. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Senior producers are Candice Manriquez Wren and Emily Feldbrake. And executive producers are Dave Easton, Erin O'Flaherty and Marshall Louie.