A (2:52)

We are, man.

B (2:53)

Today we're talking about psychedelics. We're talking about dinosaurs.

A (2:59)

Hey, we might even talk about aliens if we have time, Ryan.

B (3:02)

And just so we're clear, we're not kidding right now. This is where we are heading. It's going to be a fun day of church. Now, we were talking to Pastor Sean and Pastor Jill yesterday about all these topics and diving into these subjects that can be so complicated. And one of the things I love about them that they're so good at is they kept bringing us back to the main thing, reminding us to keep the main thing. The main thing. They go, hey, pastor people, and tell them about Jesus. Pastor people, and tell them about Jesus. And I'm so grateful to. To have pastors who are so good at keeping the main.

A (3:32)

Yeah. Actually, can we show some love and some honor to our fearless leaders? Pastor Sean, Pastor Jill, we love you so much. We're in your corner. I'd follow you anywhere. Two people God put on this planet to make heaven more crowded.

B (3:45)

Truly, Doug, before we get into any of these, let's zoom out for a second and answer the question, why even talk about these topics?

A (3:51)

Okay, good question. I thought about this last week. Remember when we were growing up and by the way, this is my little brother, in case you didn't know.

B (3:59)

I think they probably figured that out by now. We look almost identical, not twins.

A (4:03)

I'm actually 20 months older than Ryan. He's been. I've been his hero his entire life and so. But mom used to take us to. To the mall when we were little and if we behaved, we got to split a personal pan pizza from Pizza Hut.

B (4:18)

Nothing better.

A (4:18)

How many know? Nobody does personal pans like the Hut. Can I get an amen? And I don't remember this, but mom tells the story. We were waiting on a pizza and she looks at me and I'm chewing something. And she goes, young man, what are you chewing? And I say, gum. I had never had gum in my life. She said, where did you get gum? And I pointed to underneath the table in the food court of the mall. Honestly. Explains a lot about me.

B (4:49)

Yeah, well, mom and dad have always said I'm their favorite and now it's all kind of like coming together in real time.

A (4:54)

You used to say that, Ryan. But the times they are a changing. Turns out mom and dad are big fans of Daughters in Law and grandkids. How you doing on that by the

B (5:02)

way, because not good. Mom, dad, I'm sorry.

A (5:05)

Our love language is roasting each other. It's all we know to do. Anyways, I picture mom in that moment because now I see it from the parents perspective. Had to be looking at me thinking, what? Are you kidding me? I make you home cooked meals every day. You don't know what it means to be hungry. Why on earth do you feel the need to settle for chewing secondhand gum that you found under the table in the food court at the Cincinnati mall? That's a very fair question. However, I really believe in 2026, that's what a lot of us do spiritually. We have everything that we could ever need in God's word. Like this is the gourmet meal of truth that he has given us. In fact, the B Bible even tells us, take delight in the word, meditate on it day and night. The Hebrew word for meditate literally means to chew on. And so if God has given us the feast of all the capital T truth that we could ever want and ever need, why do we run to podcasts and social media all the time for 30 second sound bites that are. That are like settling for secondhand chewed gum stuck beneath the table when we have the word of God and, and, and sometimes we go to those 30 second sound bites and it can trip up what we believe and make our faith feel a little bit sick in the stomach.

B (6:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's slow down today and let's dive into these topics and get back to God's word and hear what God has to say about them. Now, Doug, I was going to give you like a nice easy question to begin a softball over the middle of the play.

A (6:39)

Never going to do that.

B (6:41)

And then I realized we're on the clock and you are long winded to begin with, and so let's just dive right in. Unnecessary, but okay, serious question for you. Okay, deal. How could a loving God send people to hell?

A (6:55)

Pass. I'm kidding. Okay. Actually, this sets me up to preach the gospel and we wanted to do that before we did anything else. I want to do my best to answer this question not with fear, but with hope. You need to know there's a false assumption hidden in that question because God actually doesn't send people to hell. God saves people from it. But we'll get to that in a second. First things first, if I could change one thing about the Christian faith, it would be the reality of hell. But then I would not be following Jesus. I would be following Me, there's this idea called universalism that teaches everybody goes to heaven. Maybe there's not even such a thing as hell. And. And, guys, that's really easy to say. And of course I want that to be true. I could, if we preached a message about that, this would get so many clicks. I want that to be true. If you don't want that to be true, I have no desire to hang out with you. To be honest. I'll take it a step further. I think God wants that to be true. And I'll back it up. 1 Timothy, chapter 2, verses 3 and 4, gives us some insight into what God dreams about. This is good and pleases God, our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. He wants all of his kids in heaven. He wants nobody to perish in hell.

B (8:20)

Okay, so now the person who is thinking right now is asking the question, if that's true, if that's what God wants, then how come God doesn't get what he wants?

A (8:28)

Because in order for love to be love, it must be a decision. Forced love is called abuse. It's coercion. God is not abusive. And he will not force anybody to spend eternity with him who chooses again and again and again not to. He extends the dignity of choice to every human being. CS Lewis has this quote where he says, in the end, there's really just two categories of people. Those who say to God, thy will be done, and those to whom God has to say, thy will, thy will be done. He's not a barbaric God sending people to hell. You know why hell exists? Because sin has to go somewhere. Okay? That's why. And Romans 3 kind of describes how all of us are in a little bit of trouble because Romans 3 says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And then Romans 6:23 doubles down on that by saying, the wages of sin. Sin is death. This is the whole gospel. The bad news, then the good news in one verse. But the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. The bad news makes the good news even gooder. My wife hates when I say that, by the way. I know it's not grammatically correct, but it makes the point. Louis Giglio says it this way. Sin causes you to die spiritually. So when you die physically, you're dead eternally. That's hell, and that's heavy. But the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. So let's take that paradigm and let's now look at John 3:16 17 and 18. We all know the first verse. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him, keyword, believes. We'll come back to that. At the end shall not perish. That's hell, but rather have eternal life. That's heaven. Verse 17. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. So right there we see Jesus putting on skin and bone and coming to the planet was not a condemnation mission to send people to hell, but actually a rescue mission to save people from hell and get people into heaven. Amen. I'm with you. Verse 18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned. Key word already. Somebody say already already because they have not believed. In the name of God's one and only Son, Jesus did not come to the planet to condemn it. Why? Because it was already condemned. We were already on our way to hell because sin must have a place to go. But it's God's desire that sinners don't need to go there if the sin problem can be solved. And it was. God punished sin in the person of Jesus. In the greatest exchange, he takes the sin from me and gives me the righteousness and forgiveness that I need to go to heaven. And it's not true that he's some barbaric God who made hell because he wants to send people there. The story of the God of the Bible is this loving God who so badly wants his kids with him for the rest of forever, he will do whatever it takes, including sacrificing his one and only son. He is not sending you to hell today. He is wooing you and waiting patiently for as many people as possible to choose him back. Yeah.

B (12:17)

So good man. Let's make this a bit more personal for a second because I, I think the question that comes up a lot is, okay, but what about my loved one who has already passed away? And can we just have some real talk in church today? Like that's a real thing. My first year of being a pastor, years ago, I was at a coffee shop on a Saturday morning. I got a phone call from a guy in the church and he said, hey, my wife's father passed away this week. We're having people over this afternoon for a funeral. Could you come and lead the funeral? And what I said was, yeah, of course, no problem. What I was doing was googling, how do you lead a funeral? Cause I had no idea what I was doing. I walk in with my Bible I give him a hug. I'm walking through the front door. She grabs me by the arm, pulls me aside. I've never met her before. Her first line to me was, my dad didn't know Jesus. Where is he right now?

A (13:11)

Yeah.

B (13:12)

You know how, like, NFL football players talk about their welcome to the NFL moment?

A (13:17)

Yeah. You were kind of like Cam Newton being blindsided by Von Miller in the

B (13:20)

super bowl over and over and over again.

A (13:22)

In that moment, I just had to get you guys back on our side because we've been talking about, hell. All you got to do is say, go Broncos, and everybody's back.

B (13:31)

That was my welcome to ministry moment. And if we're just being real, I.

A (13:36)

I didn't know what to say to

B (13:38)

her in the moment. But also, I had a friend pass away a year prior to that, and I didn't know where he stood with Jesus. And up until that point, I had been avoiding thinking about it. And her question was dragging that up for me. So now I'm getting, like, blindsided by all of these emotions.

A (13:54)

So.

B (13:55)

And I go, hey, I tell you what, can you. Can we sit down this week and drink some coffee and talk about this? Which, by the way, is just a pastor's way of buying himself a little extra time to figure out what he's going to say. And so she says, yes. And I call you on the ride home. You remember that?

A (14:08)

I remember.

B (14:09)

And I was like, doug, I don't know.

A (14:10)

Always the decision, Ryan, go ahead, quote me. What did I say?

B (14:15)

So her and her husband come in, we end up having this really life giving conversation that begins with me saying, okay, I've read through the Bible many times. As far as I can see, there is no trap door into heaven. In other words, what you talked about last week, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through Jesus. Now, here's what's really beautiful about Jesus is the night that he was betrayed and then put on trial the next morning, he was beaten, he was bruised, he was mocked, he went to the cross, he had nails driven through his hands. And as he was hanging on a cross, paying the price for my sins and for yours, there were two other people being crucified to his right and to his left. One of them was doubling down on anger. The other was crying out to him, saying, remember me, Remember me. And in one of the most scandalously beautiful pictures ever that history has ever recorded, Jesus used one of his final breaths to say this to that man. Luke 23, verse 43. Jesus answered him truly, I tell you, let this fill your heart with some hope. Today. Today you will be with me in paradise. So in that meeting, we bring that up, and what I tell her is, look, that guy. We don't know this. I'm speculating a bit, but I would imagine his family and friends weren't there. Like, so they probably didn't hear that conversation. The thief on the cross, his family and friends probably didn't hear that conversation. And yet they put. So they probably spent the rest of their life going like, there's no way he got in. And then they get to heaven and they're like, wait, you're here. Like, how did you get here? And by the way, his answer to that question is one word, and it's the same answer for all of us. The only answer is Jesus.

A (15:58)

Amen.

B (15:58)

That's who Jesus is. But here's what's really beautiful, is that means, like, okay, I've never been to those final few moments before. I don't know how it all works, but I do know that there's always hope. And so from one human being who has lost people that I love to another, when I just remind you there's always hope means we never stop worshiping King Jesus. And at some level, we open our hands and we go to Jesus.

A (16:21)

Come on, man. There is always hope. So when you see that sound bite of that influencer, and she's talking about how the Christian God just sends people to hell and don't chew on that gum, okay? And when you watch that podcast of the guy with the really professional studio who says, always lead to heaven and maybe hell's not even real, don't chew on that gum. Go to the word of God. Jesus actually talked about hell a lot in the four gospels to get us to sober up to the idea of eternity. Here's the thing, guys. Every time he did, it was never to a group of unbelievers to sort of scare them into believing. For you cannot be feared into loving someone. It was always to a group much like this of people who already believed to get us to live with even more urgency to fulfill the Great Commission and make heaven more crowded. So let's have this conversation, but then let's go and keep the main thing, the main thing. Amen. Okay, next question. Ryan, do dinosaurs disprove the Bible?

B (17:32)

Oh, boy.

A (17:34)

And side note, is Jurassic park even possible?

B (17:37)

While you're at it, you love Jurassic Park. Give us your favorite Jurassic park quote real quick.

A (17:41)

Oh, how to choose? Okay. Dr. Ian Malcolm says to John Hammond, the creator of Jurassic Park. Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that nobody stopped to ask whether or not we should.

B (17:52)

Oh, is that not hauntingly prophetic today? Is artificial intelligence listening to us right now, Ryan?

A (17:59)

Nothing to worry about it. It ended fine for Jurassic Park.

B (18:02)

So it's a sermon for another day. Okay, so do dinosaurs disprove the Bible? We get this question a lot because if you're at one of our Denver based locations right now, at some point you're probably going to send your kids off to Dinosaur Ridge for a field trip. And when they're there, what they're going to hear is that dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago. But then at first glance, when you read your Bible, it appears that the earth is only 6 to 10,000 years old. So 65 million versus 6 to 10,000. What do you do with that? So the real question that we're asking here with dinosaurs is how old is the earth?

A (18:36)

So how old is the earth? The only stance I have on dinosaurs is they're awesome, man.

B (18:42)

Here's my answer question. It depends on which Christian scholar you ask. Two primary camps here, we call them young earth creationists and old earth creationists. Both the word creationist. Both believe that God created the heavens and the earth. Both have a high view of scripture. So what we're about to talk about right now, this isn't a debate about the authority of scripture. Both have a high view of scripture. The debate is about, here's a fancy phrase coming to you. Your hermeneutical approach to Genesis chapter one.

A (19:13)

Fancy word from the guy with the seminary degree.

B (19:15)

All that means is how do you interpret Genesis 1, specifically the word day. So two camps. Let's talk about both of them. First, young earth creationists are going to take a literal approach to that word day. Genesis 1 is the story of God creating all of this in six days. And so the young earth creationist is going to go, that was six literal like 24 hour days, which means Adam was created on day six. And if you jump over to Luke 3, you get the genealogy from Adam all the way to Jesus. 76 generations go by and then we can add, we have to add 2,000 years post Jesus to get to 20, 26. And it puts us at around 6 to 10,000 years old for the age of the earth. If you are a young earth creationist. Now if that's you, and by the way, I'm just going to lay out both sides and you can decide which side you fall on. But it's really important that you know why you believe what you believe. Young earth creationists have to do something with dinosaurs then. And so what do you do? Well, Ken Ham is one of the very popular young earth creationists, and he's going to say that God created dinosaurs on day six. So he's got a lot of great resources. I love his work. I agree with some of the things he says, and I disagree with some of the things he says. But he has a resource called Answers in Genesis. And then he has a book called Dinosaurs of Eden where he talks about humans coexisting with dinosaurs. Now, he would say that then Noah brought two of each type of dinosaur onto the ark with him, obviously at their, like, infant stage. I always think about, like Timon and Pumbaa with Simba, you know, it's like, well, he's going to get bigger, then maybe he'll be on our side. The rest of the dinosaurs drown in the flood. And here's what's really important for young Earth creationists is, is those fossils appear to be millions of years old. Well, the fossilization process takes millions of years unless something catastrophic happens like a universal flood. So what they're going to say is that the flood makes those fossils appear to be much older, millions of years old, when actually they're only a couple thousands, thousands of years old. Now here's a thought experiment at every location. Close your eyes for a second. God made Adam on day six. Picture Adam. Now here's the question. How old did you just picture Adam?

A (21:35)

24 and a half.

B (21:36)

Right, Exactly. But here's the thing about Adam. He was actually only one day old. Nobody pictured Adam as like a one year old, one day old infant. So in other words, just because you look at somebody, you go, okay, you actually may be a lot younger than you appear to be with God. And so what a young earth creationist is going to say is the earth may appear to be millions of years old or billions of years old, but maybe God just created it to appear that way. Does that make sense so far?

A (22:07)

Yeah. So that's young Earth creationists. So now paint with some broad strokes old Earth creationists for a second.

B (22:14)

Okay. The other side of the spectrum would be an old earth creationist who would say that Genesis 1 isn't asking to be read literally like that. William Lane Craig is a famous old earth creationist. He's a Christian apologist. And by the way, I love his work. I agree with some of the things he says. I disagree with some of the things he says, but he points out that when you really dive into Genesis 1, there's lots of hints alluding to the reality that we don't need to be taking it literally. One example that he gives is day three in the creation story. That's when all of the trees sprout up and start bearing fruit. And if you've ever tried to plant a tree in your backyard, you know that process takes a lot longer than 24 hours. And so what William Lane Craig is going to say is, actually, those days are. We call it the day age theory. What if those were really long periods of time? So you get to day six, and maybe it lasted millions of years. So God creates dinosaurs on the front end of that. That day, 65 million years ago, they go extinct. And around 6 to 10,000 years ago, God creates Adam and Eve. And then the rest of Genesis, we're into Genesis 2, and the Bible goes from there. The point being is, whether you think the earth is old or young, you can square that with Genesis 1 and hold to a high authority of scripture, which is actually what matters. And no, Doug, dinosaurs do not disprove the Bible.

A (23:38)

By the way, he just did that in, like, four minutes. Can we make some noise for that? Nice work, man. I actually, I remember sitting in science class in high school and then in college learning about Pangea and carbon dating and thinking to myself, uh, oh, is my faith false? If you are feeling that right now, as a high schooler, I want to tell you absolutely not. Guys, here's how I define science as a science guy, okay? It's human beings figuring out how God made it. And just because we haven't figured out how God did it yet, doesn't mean God didn't do it. And that God doesn't know how God did it. It.

B (24:19)

Okay,

A (24:22)

fate that doesn't flinch. Let me tell you where we got that metaphor. Fifteen years ago, Kobe Bryant and Matt Barnes in an NBA game got into a little tiff. And there's a clip we're going to show you where Matt Barnes is inbounding a ball, and he tries to scare Kobe by pretending to throw the ball at his face. And Kobe doesn't flinch. That's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. No idea how you do that. I want that kind of faith. I want our church to be full of men and women with a faith that doesn't flinch. I want my son Will to go to Dinosaur Ridge, go off to college one day with that kind of faith. Where if a podcast or a sound bite or a Professor or a friend looks at him and goes, evolution, dinosaurs. His faith doesn't flinch, guys. It doesn't have to. It can be resilient. Even though you don't know all the answers to every question, you can ground your faith in two anchors. Here's what I know. I know that God is real. Not because I feel it, although I do. I'm talking scientifically, fundamentally, logically, philosophically, morally, reasonably. I know God is real. And number two, like Pastor Sean preached about two weeks ago, I know the resurrection of Christ is a historical event that happened that shook all of history, divided it in half BC AD that every tribe, tongue, nation, religion is telling time based on Jesus because of something that did happen 2,000 years ago. And because I know these two things, everything else is a. It's a fun conversation that can actually build my faith. It doesn't need to be a landmine that blows up my faith, okay? It can be here to strengthen your faith at the end of. Of the day. Does that make sense?

B (26:21)

It does. It makes total sense. And if that's true, then let's move on to question three. If aliens exist, does that mean Christianity is false?

A (26:32)

Are we doing this? We're going there. This is not a joke. I, I get this question so much nowadays, okay? It's. We want to answer the questions that people are actually asking right now. And it does. Even it feels like silly and strange to be talking about this in church. But let me explain it this way. I'm about to have the sex talk with my son. He's seven going on eight. This is wild to me to even think about it. Guys, I can stand up here and give the sex talk to our church, spiritually speaking to 10,000 people. I'm not afraid to do that. But explaining it biologically to my soon to be eight year old is terrifying for me. So pray for me, because here's what I know. I've got about one year left, and if I don't handle the conversation, me and him, father and son, he's going to be having these conversations on the bus with his friends. Now zoom out for a second. For the rest of us, it's not just sex. It's aliens and the Bible, it's evolution, it's psychedelics, it's hell and universalism. And these are the conversations people are having. And it's not on the bus, but now it's on social media, and now it's in small groups and now it's on podcasts. And we can either frame it up with the word of God in church, or else culture is going to frame it up for all of us using fear and anxiety. We are not talking about this to have clickbait. It's so easy to get clickbaity things. We are doing this to say to our church that we love so much. Guys, don't let this stuff be the gum that you chew on. Okay? I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I'm all saying. I'm also not. Not saying that it doesn't matter that

B (28:29)

it sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter. Okay, but, Doug, you once had an encounter with aliens. Is that. Is that correct? Is that fair to say?

A (28:36)

It's half true? I thought I did. Guys, picture this. It was a few years ago. I was in the middle of west Central Texas, driving home from a wedding by myself, the middle of the night, surrounded by cornfield. And I look up, and this is happening in the night sky right above my head. I haven't seen a headlight in 30 minutes. Does that not look like a fleet of UFOs coming to abduct me? And I'm like, I'm not crazy, man. I'm not the boy who cried aliens. All I know about aliens is what I learned from Will Smith in Independence Day. And I know that wasn't good. Turns out, though, it's not. This wasn't aliens. This was the Starlink satellite and Elon trying to give us faster WI fi.

B (29:22)

Right? So this is important for. For some people, there was a very natural explanation to something that seemed supernatural.

A (29:29)

There. There can also be supernatural answers as well, because we have a supernatural God. But really quick, in one answer, one word, if aliens exist, is Christianity false? No. All my cards on the table. I don't personally believe that there are aliens out there in a galaxy far, far away. I've also never been there, so I could be wrong about that. But even if they were, my faith wouldn't flinch, because you might say, well, then why aren't they in the Bible? I'm like, guys, giraffes and elephants aren't in the Bible either. You know why? Because it's not a book about that. This is not a book about zoology. It's not a book about aliens. If there are aliens out there in another galaxy, I don't know what God's plan is for them. Maybe they have a Bible and we're not in it. This feels so crazy to talk about this.

B (30:23)

Well, welcome to Red Rocks.

A (30:24)

Your first time at Red Rocks? You're like, what the heck did I just walk into man. But if there's aliens, I'm like, okay, so you're telling me God's even bigger than I thought, and he's up to even more than what we knew, and he's even more worthy of our worship? You can't worship a God you. You fully understand. Anyways, with all of that said, there have been more and more Encounters. Not with UFOs, that's not what we're calling them anymore, I guess, but rather UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomenon. And it's not crazy people seeing things. I thought that up until just a couple months ago. But it's actually government officials testifying about evidence that's been covered up. It's Navy pilots, it's generals in the Air Force seeing beings or objects that appear and then disappear as fast as they appeared and moving in strange ways across the sky. And here's what's really interesting, though. I learned a bit about this from a pastor by the name of John Bevere. He's brilliant. I don't agree with everything that he says either, but he is. He handled this topic so pastorally. And one thing he pointed out is if you lean into all the language the experts are using, they're being very careful not to use the word extraterrestrial. Instead, they're using the word interdimensional, which, as a Christian, should get you thinking. In my opinion, you can explain all of it with scripture and spiritual warfare, because there is a spiritual realm. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not as real as the chair you are sitting on right now. Jesus is the firstborn over all creation. He made everything you can see. He made everything that you can't see. Revelation describes Satan like a dragon falling from heaven and taking with him a third of all the angels of heaven that we now call demons or principalities. First Corinthians 15 says there are terrestrial bodies, and there's also celestial bodies. So I do believe people are having encounters or seeing things or hearing things. I don't believe it's aliens. I believe very confidently it's spiritual warfare, and it's here to deceive and to distract us from the main thing.

B (32:39)

Okay, so if it's spiritual warfare, I know that that can bring up a lot of fear for a lot of people, and a lot of overthinking is possible. CS Lewis, in the beginning of Screwtape Letters, gives a very helpful framework for dealing with that. Can you lay that out real quick? Yeah.

A (32:53)

He talks about the two great heirs when it comes to spiritual warfare, one is that you ignore it and nothing is demonic. And the other is that every. Like, there's a demon behind every tree. And I. The devil gave me a flat tire on the way to church when really, you just drove through a construction site. Not everything is demonic, but things are also. So it's like, don't ignore it. Don't obsess over it. Be aware of it, and understand that you have authority over it. So if we're going to talk about this as spiritual warfare, I would apply those two same errors. Number one would just be to kind of, like, roll your eyes and just. I'm completely ignorant because if you do that, then one sound bite or documentary could blow your faith over like, a house of cards. The other great error, though, and this one, I. I feel like I. I, as a pastor, just need to talk to maybe a strong percentage of our church right now is that you become so enchanted with this stuff and mesmerized by it that you just dive deeper and deeper. It lures you in and it lulls you to sleep, and it. It distracts you from the calling that you have and why you're really here, which is to know God and live on purpose and be part of something that is changing the world. Do not be deceived and do not be distracted. The enemy has very real agendas, especially in the last days. We'll get to that in just a second. But it's one of those things where we kind of just opened a can of worms. In fact, we're answering five questions right now that are five big cans of worms. We wanted to open them and just show you that the Bible is not afraid of him and you don't have to be either. And now we can put the lid back on and we can make heaven more crowded, because that's why we're here and keeping the main thing. The main thing. Amen. All right, with that said, Ryan, should Christians use psychedelics? Can I just. Really quick, let me give you a few balancing statements. I want to set you up for success. He's my little brother, you know. My mom would want me to do this. So we're not doctors. We're not psychiatrists like me. You might have listened to a Huberman episode on this. That doesn't mean you're a doctor either. Okay? Let's all just humble ourselves for a second. We are pastors, and I talked to a guy last week who had PTSD coming back from war. And with the medical doctor, through the usage of psychedelics found a lot of healing. Okay, that's an amazing story. I made a new friend right before this service who works in this industry and told me, he says this to his patients. Psychedelics aren't your answer. Jesus is your answer. And it's cool because we can agree on that concept. And then when it comes to the usage of psychedelics, like, we can discuss and even disagree. Guys, this is not something to debate about. This is something to simply discuss. We want to talk to you really quick as pastors, because a lot of times in our meetings, people will use those stories to justify why they need to now use psychedelics in their spiritual journey towards enlightenment. And you just get just permission just to be a pastor right now.

B (36:29)

Yeah. Thank you. And this is something that I do just feel really strongly about is first, Peter 5:8. If I'm going to be a pastor, let's go to Scripture. Peter writes this. Be sober minded. Underline that word, circle that word. Be sober minded. Be watchful. Why? Why? Because God's a killjoy. Because God doesn't want you to have any fun. No, be sober minded. Here's why. It's because your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. Here's the truth. We really do have an enemy. And it's his job to steal, kill and destroy. Which means just because something is spiritual doesn't necessarily mean that it's good. And so 2,000 years ago, Peter gave us a very strong warning to remain sober minded, to not open ourselves up to that. It's like if there's a lion walking around your neighborhood and you wouldn't leave your front door wide open and then go to sleep, you keep it shut. You stay sober minded. And so it's just really important pastorally that we explained that to you. But to dive a layer deeper, let me say this. Even if I'll meet with people all the time who tell me, like, yeah, but I had a positive experience, quote, unquote, positive experience. And I would debate whether or not that was really, that was really positive. Because, by the way, that's why for every quote, unquote positive experience you hear about, you also hear about very dark experiences at the same time. And by the way, Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light. And so that should terrify us already. But even if that was a positive experience, here's what's really important to realize. You don't know how to get back to that place without the drug. So, like church. Listen, there's a way to experience the deep things of God. It's through prayer and fasting and silence and solitude and community and serving and meeting together as the church and doing this together and going on a journey that Eugene Peterson prophetically called. In 1980, he wrote a book called A Long Obedience in the Same Direction. And today we need that call more than ever because all throughout TikTok and social media you're going to hear stories about all of these shortcuts that people are taking. But just because you take a shortcut doesn't mean that you know how to get back to that place. Which means it does what every other drug does. It takes you right up to that thing and then leaves you hanging and leaves you reliant on coming back to that drug to get back to that place. Now more than ever, what we need is a long obedience in the same direction. That's what it looks like to follow Jesus.

A (39:16)

That's so good, man. Yeah. I just have those conversations with people in my office now who talk to me about it and I'm like, dude, you're not like here anymore with me. You call this being enlightened? I'm like, you're less and less here every time we talk. And I want you to be here. I want you to be here. So I'm not a doctor. I don't know what I don't know. I'm a pastor. And just the caution, be sober minded. I actually just want to quote you and in your second book that's coming out in a month, Ryan has a book called Free Me from Me. It talks about God centered spirituality in a day and age of self centered spirituality. And it's so good it, it comes out April 14th. I think you should do two things by then. Pre order the book and file your taxes. Okay, I'm just going to read. You have one little chapter on psychedelics. Let me just read this. Psychedelics are an attempt to cut in line and expedite the results. And this part is this not Denver and Austin to be a spiritual tourist who gets their picture taken next to enlightenment, quote unquote, even though they don't have any ability to return to it until their next vacation. It goes against the grain of God's design for spirituality and pushes us deeper into the me maze. The real trail can be grueling, but the view is phenomenal and the company is good. It's full of pilgrims who have all discovered in their own way that there is no super secret formula. There is no drug we can take or ceremony we can Attend. The only way forward is a long obedience in the same direction. Amen to that. Let's finish with this and worship team, you can come up here. Are we in the end times or not? Ryan, answer right now, one word. Yeah. Yes.

B (41:10)

If by end times, you're defining that the way that the Bible defines it. And so if you go to Acts chapter two, it's the story of after Jesus, Jesus, death and resurrection and ascension is Peter and the guy starting the church. And Acts chapter two is this really important story about the Holy Spirit showing up. This crazy day of ministry where like 3,000 people get saved. And Peter stands up and preaches the first sermon that we have recorded from Peter. You can go read this. This is Acts 2, verse 17. He quotes Joel 2, and it says, in the last days, God will pour out his spirit. In other words, Peter is saying, what's happening right now is what has been prophesied about in the last days. The Holy Spirit is showing up. In other words, for the last 2,000 years, we have been in the last days. We have been in the end times. And what's just important to remember is every generation since Jesus has believed that they are the last, and eventually one of them is going to be correct about it. Right?

A (42:11)

And I actually think that's kind of the design of Jesus, because if we knew here's the date he's coming back, we would kind of just chill up until three days before, you know. But since we don't know, we always live ready and live on purpose because of it. Mark, chapter 13, verse 32. This is Jesus. However, nobody knows the day or the hour. Me and Ryan know the week. By the way, I'm.

B (42:35)

Someone's going to take that out of context. Don't.

A (42:37)

Yeah, people are still doing that. It's wild to me. I'm like, people who need attention, don't give it to them. Because Jesus is saying, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Not even I know. Only the Father knows. So what should we do about that? Let's finish right here by keeping the main thing. The main thing. Two things. We're about to sing a song called the King Is Coming. We are ushering in the return of Jesus. We don't know when that is. There's so much happening in the world right now that we cannot control. But there is something we can control. Take all of your unsettledness about the times and how all this ends. My challenge to you is to put it into the Great Commission. A simple way. Invite somebody to an Easter service who doesn't know Jesus? Don't live in fear of the end. Fear the Lord. And let that cause you to live with less anxiety and more urgency and less fear about the unknown and more excitement about what we get to look forward to. And let that fuel you to the Great Commission. Invite somebody to one of our Easter services who doesn't know Jesus, because I believe God is going to move and I think, think across all of our locations, we might even see like 2,000 people make a decision to put their faith in Jesus. And you want to know something? I would love it if one of those people was your roommate or your coworker sitting next to you so you can experience the rush of purpose knowing God used me as an agent of invitation to build the church and make heaven more crowded. Wow, you are carriers of the greatest news there is. You know, the greatest, most life changing story that will ever be told. Don't hold on to it. Let the fact that it feels like, man, things are heating up. I have no idea when Jesus is coming back. I've never been the end times guy. And now when people who are the end times guys talk to me, I'm like, dad can kind of see it. Okay, Take all that energy or fear or anxiety into the Great Commission and then number two, make a decision to personally give your life to Jesus if you haven't done that yet. Because there will not come a point when all of your questions get answered. There will only come a point where you decide to trust God and give your heart to Him. So don't delay your own salvation with all the endless questions about, well, what about hell? And well, what about the guy who's on the deserted island? What about him? You know what I think about him? I think God's got him and I think he's accountable for what he knows. Let's not be distracted. Let's talk about you. Because you're not on an island and you're accountable not for what you don't know, but for what you do. And you know that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but rather have eternal life. Today is the day for salvation. And so let's do this with every head bowed and every eye closed. I just want to make a moment between you and God because I believe for a lot of you, beneath the sound of my voice right now, the creator of the universe, your maker, is, is speaking to you. He wants a relationship with you. And this is your moment to choose him back. Make a decision called love to say Jesus, what you did on the cross 2,000 years ago. Could that count for me where you take my sin, let my sin go to hell, but instead, give me righteousness, give me forgiveness. I give you my life. Would you give. Give me yours instead? I'm tired of doing this my way. I'm tired of doing this the world's way, which by the way, is not working. I turned from that the cross before me and the world behind me. Let's do this your way instead. I give you my heart. I make you my Lord and Savior. I believe you are who you say you are. And I want heaven forever one day when I die. And until then, I want life to the full in a relationship with you. Say yes to that in your heart right now. And if you are doing that, I want to invite you to take an extra step and be bold and simply raise your hand. In this room, in all of our rooms, there's hands up all over the place. I'm believing there's hands up at every single one of our locations. It's like your body's teaching your soul something. A physical hand raise is teaching your spirit that something spiritual is. Is taking place. You are making a decision called love. You're choosing God the way he has always been choosing you. My goodness, this guys, can we open our eyes? And at every location, can you stand to your feet and can we make some noise? Because it's crazy how much more crowded heaven just got right in front of us. This is Miracles Church. Let that never get old. We can discuss all the questions. You don't have to believe what. What we've answered about these questions to belong at this church. Because we are united under one thing. That Christ was crucified and then resurrected on the third day. That heaven and hell are real. That Jesus is the way, the truth, the life. And he's coming back a second time. And the proof is that he came the first time. In the meantime, let's prepare the way because our King is coming. Amen. All right, Red rocks at every location. Let's worship. Love you guys.

B (48:26)

Depression.